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Author Topic: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers*  (Read 71681 times)
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Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers*
« on: December 08, 2002, 12:41:54 pm »

I haven't found a similar thread dealng with this topic specifically, so here goes.

I'm trying to find out EXACTLY what the deal with the Arilou and the Orz are. Of course, I've played SCIII, but even then they keep the motives of the Orz a little ambiguous. Plus, I think there' smore to it than what's said in that game. Specifically, can ANY of you people give me your take on several aspects of those two races:

1) "Arilou are from *above*. Orz are from *below*." What the hell is this supposed to mean?

2) "We seek to trap *Nggn*, but they dart and leap. YOU cannot catch *Nggn*, do not even try. I don't think you are quite solid enough." What the hell is this supposed to mean?

3) Can anyone make a good translation of the Orz language, of the best terms to use for the terms in their lingual best-fits?

4) What ARE the Orz? The way they talk, it seems like they are actually one single entity that somehow projects multiple selves in our dimension ("I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers* My *fingers* spread into *heavy space*, etc. etc.). And what the hell DID they do with the Androsynth?

5) On the topic of Orz language, what do you think they mean when they say that the Taalo are playing *time tricks* on them in *pretty space*?

6) What does it mean when the Orz say that the Arilou are always *jumping in front*?

7) Again, what DID happen to the Androsynth? Why did they look up information about ghosts and poltergiests on their computers when recearching dimensional fatigue?

If any of you people have any take on these questions, or have any official information... please let me know! These questions have been bothering me for YEARS!

Thanks a bunch!
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2002, 01:18:14 pm »

Well, I've gathered a few theories about some of this, despite the fact that it is really my first time through the game.  I was really interested in the Orz and such.


1) "Arilou are from *above*. Orz are from *below*." What the hell is this supposed to mean?

I think this one is one of the easier ones.  This could probably mean two different things.  Either the Orz and the Arilou are on similar dimensions, but not exactly the same, or they are from some other area of quasispace.  Wierd things happen in green places.

2) "We seek to trap *Nggn*, but they dart and leap. YOU cannot catch *Nggn*, do not even try. I don't think you are quite solid enough." What the hell is this supposed to mean?

*Nngn* is probbaly just something TFB thought up of as a sort of a quirk.  A sort of sport for the Arilou, maybe.  The quite solid enough is simply hard to explain.  Some other wierd property of things.

3) Can anyone make a good translation of the Orz language, of the best terms to use for the terms in their lingual best-fits?

I can't remember most of the mis-translations.  I think a common piece of pondering is the Arilou *quick babies* thing, which is probably just a slang term, or something of the like.

4) What ARE the Orz? The way they talk, it seems like they are actually one single entity that somehow projects multiple selves in our dimension ("I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers* My *fingers* spread into *heavy space*, etc. etc.). And what the hell DID they do with the Androsynth?

That's what I think, too.  It's either that, or a huge collective conciousness.

5) On the topic of Orz language, what do you think they mean when they say that the Taalo are playing *time tricks* on them in *pretty space*?

No clue =P.

6) What does it mean when the Orz say that the Arilou are always *jumping in front*?

Probably just means that the Arilou are getting in the way, hiding victims from them, etc.

7) Again, what DID happen to the Androsynth? Why did they look up information about ghosts and poltergiests on their computers when recearching dimensional fatigue?

This one only TFB can really answer.  From the information obtained from the Androsynth homeworld, the Androsynth found out too much about the Orz, and the Orz found them.  The Orz then would kill them somehow from a remote location, psychically killing them, or something of the sort.  That is why the scientist's cuts got worse on the planet's surface.  The ghosts stuff I don't know about.  Did they think that the Orz were ghosts?

While writing this, I thought of something else.  The Arilou mention being more solid than you (by saying you're not solid enough to do what they do).  If I remember correctly, the Orz are NOT "solid" like the Arilou.  Maybe this has some connection with the above/below?
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2002, 01:19:27 pm »

Quote
I haven't found a similar thread dealng with this topic specifically, so here goes.

I'm trying to find out EXACTLY what the deal with the Arilou and the Orz are. Of course, I've played SCIII, but even then they keep the motives of the Orz a little ambiguous. Plus, I think there' smore to it than what's said in that game. Specifically, can ANY of you people give me your take on several aspects of those two races:

1) "Arilou are from *above*. Orz are from *below*." What the hell is this supposed to mean?


Well I think it means that the Arilou are from nice dimension and the Orz are from a naster one that is hard to live in (sort of like heaven and hell).

Quote
2) "We seek to trap *Nggn*, but they dart and leap. YOU cannot catch *Nggn*, do not even try. I don't think you are quite solid enough." What the hell is this supposed to mean?


Well Nggn are some sort of alien life form that lives or travels through Arilou's sphere of influence. I'm not sure what they are or even why the Arilou want to trap them. But, I believe that the reason we are not solid enough is because we don't have physic abilities (it's the only thing that the Arilou have over us as far as I can tell).

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3) Can anyone make a good translation of the Orz language, of the best terms to use for the terms in their lingual best-fits?


Well I saw someone post some translations in an old thread, but you can also find them here... http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/scwc/orzese.shtml

Quote
4) What ARE the Orz? The way they talk, it seems like they are actually one single entity that somehow projects multiple selves in our dimension ("I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers* My *fingers* spread into *heavy space*, etc. etc.). And what the hell DID they do with the Androsynth?


Good question. I'm pretty sure that they are simply the *fingers* or "workers" of their leader (like a hive mind thing). And when they say they are not fully here, that is because they are simply scouts for the one who "controls" them. As for the Androsynth, the Spathi say that the Orz ate them, but then again the Spathi think the Precursors are big cowards.  Wink **Read 7 for more of my theories on this**

Quote
5) On the topic of Orz language, what do you think they mean when they say that the Taalo are playing *time tricks* on them in *pretty space*?


Well all I've gathered is that the Taalo can travel into their native space (common sense though). How they play *time tricks* on them, what that even means, and if the Taalo are just playing games (like the Umgah) or if they really dislike the Orz, is beyond me.

Quote
6) What does it mean when the Orz say that the Arilou are always *jumping in front*?


I've thought about this alot over the past few years and I've come to the conclusion that the Arilou, since they know the truth about the Orz, have been *jumping in front* of the Orz with the power of their fleet and thus preventing them from entering our space by the normal route. Then, the Androsynth showed the Orz where they were and when the Orz investigated, they found another way here.

Quote
7) Again, what DID happen to the Androsynth? Why did they look up information about ghosts and poltergiests on their computers when recearching dimensional fatigue?


Well according to the information, in their cities, their planet were "pounded with nukes" (sound like anyone who we know?) and all of the Androsynth were "grabbed." I would assume that they looked up information on ghosts and such because the Orz were haunting them (remember what happened to the landing party's leader when he found out too much information). In the end they either ate the Androsynth, (like SCIII and the Spathi say) which would explain why there were no bodies, or used the Androsynth's bodies as "vessles" that they allowed them to enter this space in a solid form (this is an idea that I came up with while typing this). What is also possible, is that the Androsynth were brought to *pretty space,* but that just doesn't fit in with the Orz becoming so upset and the Arilou hinting that if they didn't change our DNA the Orz would want us too (the Arilou wouldn't be so worried about them hurting us if the Orz simply wanted to relocate us).

EDIT: I'm sure you already knew most of this stuff, but it's the same answer you'll from most fans. The only way we'll know the answers to your good questions is if TFB tells us or they make a new game.  :-/
« Last Edit: December 08, 2002, 01:43:38 pm by Zeroarmy » Logged
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2002, 04:23:36 pm »

This is just me, but I think you guys are missing the point entirely.

The Arilou, and moreover the Orz, observe the Universe from an entirely DIFFERENT dimension. This comes with a lot of insane implications. One of the more obvious ones being that they would not likely not see time as a linear stream.

We literally don't have the mental capacity to even begin to contemplate how these guys think, because their point of view probably violates many common sense laws. e.g, Imagine a Universe where causality doesn't exist. EXACTLY: you can't.

So while the Orz and Arilou may occasionally actually mean something mundane when they say something weird, more often than not they're probably just talking about something inconceivable.

Philosophy people should know what I'm talking about; think Kant's phenomena vs. noumena. Anyone with knowledge about quantum physics should especially know what I'm talking about when I say that the Universe as we see it is an bizarre, inexplicable place full of impossible answers to strange questions.

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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2002, 04:54:31 pm »

Quote
1) "Arilou are from *above*. Orz are from *below*." What the hell is this supposed to mean?

I've always took this to mean that Quasi-space and Orz-space are in two opposite directions along the fourth spatial axis, the one which crosses dimensions.  True-space and Hyperspace are between.  Since there's a portal from Hyperspace to Quasi-space, I assume these two are adjacent, meaning Quasi-space is on top, followed by Hyperspace, then True-space, and finally, Orz-space on the bottom.  It's also worth noting that the Orz are fish-creatures.

Quote
2) "We seek to trap *Nggn*, but they dart and leap. YOU cannot catch *Nggn*, do not even try. I don't think you are quite solid enough." What the hell is this supposed to mean?

This one is just too weird.  I suppose the best chance anyone has of making sense of what the Arilou say here is to figure out what "solid" means, perhaps based off the use of slippery, sticky, and other such Orz words, then think about what it would have to do with trapping something.  Then from there speculate on what a *Nggn* could be.

Quote
3) Can anyone make a good translation of the Orz language, of the best terms to use for the terms in their lingual best-fits?

I try to interpret their *special* words as literally as possible.  For example, fingers reaching into our dimension makes sense.  Not being extradimensional beings, we don't have a word for what exactly the Orz said; the translator just picked the closest English word to what the Orz said.
Also, it is pretty clear that "dancing" refers to combat.  From the Orz's perspective it probably really is closer to dancing, as they don't seem to have a concept of death, and if you blow up one of their ships, you're only attacking their *fingers*.


Quote
4) What ARE the Orz? The way they talk, it seems like they are actually one single entity that somehow projects multiple selves in our dimension ("I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers* My *fingers* spread into *heavy space*, etc. etc.). And what the hell DID they do with the Androsynth?

That's my interpretation of fingers as well.  One single entity with many 4D cylindrical *fingers* intersecting 3D space appears in 3D to be multiple spheres, or *many bubbles*.

Quote
5) On the topic of Orz language, what do you think they mean when they say that the Taalo are playing *time tricks* on them in *pretty space*?

It's "time jokes."  It probably has something to do with the Taalo's extinction.

Quote
6) What does it mean when the Orz say that the Arilou are always *jumping in front*?

It sounds like it means the Arilou are intervening.  And as far as we know, us humans are the only ones the Arilou are protecting, which means the Orz are trying to get us.

Quote
7) Again, what DID happen to the Androsynth? Why did they look up information about ghosts and poltergiests on their computers when recearching dimensional fatigue?

There seem to be several indications that the Orz got them.  Since they're gone, it is entirely possible they're still alive in the Orz dimension.
The Arilou tell you of beings where simply knowing of them is dangerous because it allows them to *smell* you, and it sounds like the Orz are those beings.  That explains the Androsynths' fate.
It makes me wonder why the Orz don't want you asking about the Androsynth, though.  If it was something other than the Orz that did it, then the Orz wouldn't want you telling them about the Androsynth because that would put them at risk.
I guess it could also be that the Orz saw the Androsynth, and tried to pick them up out of our dimension, which killed them.  This made the Orz sad (they broke their new toy) and they don't want to be reminded of it.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2002, 04:20:21 pm »

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7) Again, what DID happen to the Androsynth? Why did they look up information about ghosts and poltergiests on their computers when recearching dimensional fatigue?

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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2002, 07:15:14 pm »

Maybe the Arilou did a buttload of smell changing within the past few years of the SC2 universe, before the Orz came, or maybe when the Androsynth were made using the standard human genome map, the DNA was the original stuff or something, while all human bodies had long since been changed by the Arilou, so when the Androsynth were made, they were more like humans before their "smell" was changed.

At any rate, if either of those is true, it makes sense why the Arilou tried to change humans' "smell".  If the Orz had finished up with the Androsynth and the Captain had waltzed right up to him asking for an alliance, at a time when all humans still had their original smell, the Orz would probably realize humans were directly related to the Androsynth and attempt to gobble the humans all up too.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2002, 08:47:41 pm »

Actually, I think that the Androsynth had no *smell* either.  It's clear to me that whatever the Orz did to the Androsynth, they only *smelled* our *level* once the Androsynth began their experiments with DF, making, as the Orz put it, *slippery places*.  In SC3, the Orz says that he/they couldn't even *smell* our *level* until the Androsynth did what they did.  My personal theory is that no one on our *level* has the *smell* that the Orz look for, not even the Androsynth, but the Orz took the Androsynth experiments as a way of signalling that they were ready for *the change*.

My theory on *the change* is that its some sort of awakening or fundamental change to a species.  the Orz seem to have the ability to cause *the change*, but only when the *Happy Campers* are ready.  I think that the Orz thought the Androsynth were ready, and tried to put htem through *the change*.  They seemed perplexed that het Androsynth resisted the change, whihc seems to indicate that the Orz thought they wanted it, then found out that they didn't.  I think the Taalo also underwent *the change* and now exist on a different *level* somehow.  The Orz have now found our *level*, and have his/their *fingers* on it to watch for when races ARE ready for *the change*.  (If you buy SC3 at all, this could even be what had happened to the Supox - they were ready, or at least the Orz thought they were.)

In any case, *the change* clearly doesn't leave any bodies behind.  So either the Androsynth DID undergo the change, and now exist, like the Taalo and the Supox, on a different *level*, or even an unsecuessful *change* destroys the bodies, in which case most if not all of the Androsynth are dead.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2002, 11:28:01 pm »

Time to *dance*

Here's a wild theory. The Androsynth went to the Orz dimension, since the Orz describe themselves as "fingers" they serve a higher something. What if by pulling the androsynth in they changed them, made them better, more advanced, perhaps energy beings. And since Orz space doesn't work the same most likely, so the Androsynth went insane and became the Eternal 1's!!!!
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2002, 12:19:01 am »

Okay, this was all explained in Star Conrol 3. For those who played it, fo you remember the Dak Tak Lak Pak saying that the Chengesu were Eternal1 summoning devices? They said that the Taalo were the real ones, and said that the Chengesu were a backup. The Chengesu part was a lie, but the Taalo probably WERE the summoning device. Regardless, the Orz are the backup, so they are evil. The Androsynth were finding out too much about the whole Eternal1 thing, and when they discovered the true name of the Eternal1's, the Eternal1's "smelled" them, and sent the Orz over there to remove them (they were probably consumed by the Eternal1's). I've been working on and Orz-English dictionary that I can piece together, and when it's done, I'll post it.

As for the Arilou, they have ulterior motives of thier own: when they became aware of the impending arrival of the Eternal1's, they fled into a newly discovered dimension: Quasi-Space. In Quasi-Space they were safe from the Eternal1 harvest, and could live out peaceful lives. However, there race was unable to adapt to the harch life in Quasi-Space and they started to die genetically. They would suffer mutations and things of that sort until they will eventually become extinct. To prevent this, they looked all over the galaxy for another race they could "borrow" genes from and use as genetic cattle, and the best fit they could find was humans, of course. They intend to use Earthlings to keep their own race alive for as long as posible. When the Arilou say that they are from *above*, they refer to Quasi-Space, while the Orz are from *below*, which is the realm of the Eternal1's. They try to trap te *Nnnngh* or whatever... this is the toughest part to truly understand. I believe that the *Nnngh* are some creation of the Eternal1 race, or are Eternal1's themselves. After all, the sooner they can stop them, the sooner the Arilou can return to True-Space. I hope this clears most of it up.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2002, 04:44:39 am »

Yeah, the Arilou thing was explained in SC3...

But there's abolutely no evidence to suggest the Orz are in any way related to the Eternal1s.  In fact, there is evidence against it.

The Orz says: "... I could not even *smell* your *level*!  Can you believe!"  This indicates that the Orz have nothing to do with the Eternal1s, since the Eternal1s seeded this galxy, and therefore obviously know of it.
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2002, 05:22:52 am »

Wow! I didn't expect so many replies to this thread.. thank you, everyone!

Everyone had very interesting theories. I am interested to see how the latest one, how the Orz and Eternal1's are not related. In SCIII, it seemed like they were somehow related, but there might be evidence against it.

Oh another note, does anyone know what *parties* in the *middle* mean? Or why, if the Orz are projections from another reality, do Orz have a fish-like physique and breathe ethanol through gills?

Keep this topic alive, people! Thank you everyone again for submitting so many replies!
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2002, 05:35:54 am »

As for the lack of relation, you can't prove a negative, although I did already put some evidence suggesting there is no link.  Read my post!

as for *parties* in the *middle*, I think the Orz are just talking about something in *heavy space* (that's TrueSpace to us who don't speak Orz.)
The Orz say they are from *below* while the Arilou are from *above*.  Well, it sounds to me like TrueSpace is in between *below* and *above*, i.e. in the middle!
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2002, 07:11:37 am »

Quote
Okay, this was all explained in Star Conrol 3. For those who played it, fo you remember the Dak Tak Lak Pak saying that the Chengesu were Eternal1 summoning devices? They said that the Taalo were the real ones, and said that the Chengesu were a backup. The Chengesu part was a lie, but the Taalo probably WERE the summoning device. Regardless, the Orz are the backup, so they are evil. The Androsynth were finding out too much about the whole Eternal1 thing, and when they discovered the true name of the Eternal1's, the Eternal1's "smelled" them, and sent the Orz over there to remove them (they were probably consumed by the Eternal1's). I've been working on and Orz-English dictionary that I can piece together, and when it's done, I'll post it.


We all know what happened in SCIII and that is the point. The writers from SCIII made up nonsense from their little understanding of SCII. For example:

In SCII the Arilou say that after the Ur-Quan slave-shielded Humans the Arilou realized we were safe, so they left the 3 remaining races to face the Ur-Quan along (the Syreen, Shofixti, and the Yehat). Yet in SCIII they suggest that the Arilou created the Syreen. Now tell me why the Arilou wouldn't protect the Syreen, like they did with us? Why they didn't watch over their starbase? Why they didn't appear, to them, when they spent 75 years endlessly wandering around in space? Sure you could say that they didn't need their DNA to stay alive and so didn't care about them. But, that too is another messed up plot. In SCII the Arilou say they MODIFIED our DNA and changed our *smell* to protect us from those who seek to harm us. Modified meaning changing, not creating. So, if what SCIII said were to be true, the Arilou flat out lied in SCII. Yet, how do you explain changing our *smell.* According to the Orz we are not in for the same fate as the Androsynth because we have are different. And, according to common sense, the only way we could be different is that we were not able to see what the Arilou did to our DNA. So, when we copied our DNA, and made the Androsynth, their DNA was the same as ours was before the Arilou came along.

That is just one of the many ruined plots of SCIII, so when people, in this forum, ask a question about something having to do with cliff-hangers from SCII they tend to want to know what everyone thinks TFB had in mind and not the writers of SCIII.

Quote
As for the Arilou, they have ulterior motives of thier own: when they became aware of the impending arrival of the Eternal1's, they fled into a newly discovered dimension: Quasi-Space. In Quasi-Space they were safe from the Eternal1 harvest, and could live out peaceful lives. However, there race was unable to adapt to the harch life in Quasi-Space and they started to die genetically. They would suffer mutations and things of that sort until they will eventually become extinct. To prevent this, they looked all over the galaxy for another race they could "borrow" genes from and use as genetic cattle, and the best fit they could find was humans, of course. They intend to use Earthlings to keep their own race alive for as long as posible. When the Arilou say that they are from *above*, they refer to Quasi-Space, while the Orz are from *below*, which is the realm of the Eternal1's. They try to trap te *Nnnngh* or whatever... this is the toughest part to truly understand. I believe that the *Nnngh* are some creation of the Eternal1 race, or are Eternal1's themselves. After all, the sooner they can stop them, the sooner the Arilou can return to True-Space. I hope this clears most of it up.


I probably shouldn't argue with you about this, but I just can't help it. Anyway, if I remember correctly SCIII said that the Arilou's genes were breaking down because they have lived over 200 thousand years (longer then anyone else because the Eternal One's always feed off everyone before that). And since they refused to evolve, they would die. I don't know where you got your Quasi-Space thing, but if SCIII said that, and I forgot, that just goes to show another stupid idea by them. Also, I don't know what is with you and the Eternal One's, but there's no way that they created them (they weren't brought up in SCIII, so you shouldn't have put them into SCIII's ideas anyway) Why you ask? Well according to you the Arilou wish to trap the *Nnngn* because they have something to do with the Eternal One's. But, if that were true why would the Arilou say that they let them go because they don't like to be confined, when you ask what they do with them. Instead, it is suggested that the *Nnngn* are a rare species in which the Arilou simply wish to study (like the Melnorme buying alien life forms to study).
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Re: Arilou and the Orz: What's the Deal? *spoilers
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2002, 07:58:15 am »

I found some nice theories and explanations at http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/scsaga/races.htm .  What I've taken from it, is that there are multiple dimensions/planes of reality in the universe, and the Orz are from one w/ the same kind of creatures the Arilou want to keep the humans hidden from (though those creatures populate multiple dimensions/planes).  The Androsynth were basically just clones of humans, so it's not like they were "un-hidden", they just revealed themselves by experimenting with interdimensional fatigue, and that as a result of it, the Orz were able to take advantage of whatever they did, take their place, and stick them all in that dimension instead.  How exactly would Orz eat humans anyways?  They have a glass bowl on their head.   But, the Orz aren't even in the regular universe entirely... they said that the forms that you (the captain) see are like "fingers" or whatever...
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