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Author Topic: You have lost  (Read 1868 times)
Zanthius
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Re: You have lost
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2017, 07:24:01 am »

I wasn't thinking about the politics, just about why people often continue to believe in falsified explanations after they are proven wrong. I found this article which addresses the same issue (http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/09/23/why-do-we-believe-lies-even-after-they-are-proven-wrong/45002.html), but I don't know if there exists any theory which describes why we get hurt from having our cherished beliefs proven wrong, and why it is so difficult for us to let go of a cherished belief even after it has been proven wrong. I will try to read a bit on the link you gave me.

It seems quite irrational to get hurt when proven wrong. A more rational reaction might actually be to get happy. At least falsified beliefs would disappear faster from our civilization then. So it is kinda weird that we haven't evolved to get happy when proven wrong.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 08:22:37 am by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: You have lost
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2017, 09:57:05 am »

Also, it might be wise to read some of the 'sequences', which are some base material for the site. There is quite a lot there, so don't worry about finishing it all before posting! But it would make sense to get an idea of the overall idea. I'd start with How to Actually Change Your Mind, one of the original sequences.

This guy is very smart. I have read a few of the sequences under "How to Actually Change your Mind" now, but I think I am going to read all of the sequences on the page you gave me. I have also given the link to some of my friends. Very interesting stuff.

It is also interesting how much we seem to have learned about our own rationality, after we started to try to understand how to make computers learn. That is why it doesn't seem like such a bad idea to make a Bayesian induction engine from scratch. Maybe I would learn a lot about my own rationality by doing that.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 10:34:25 am by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: You have lost
« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2017, 11:30:40 pm »

Regarding the Bayesian induction engine. I am taking a course in machine learning offered by Standford University at https://www.coursera.org now. They also have a course there about Bayesian Statistics which I am going to take afterwards.
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The Architect
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Re: You have lost
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2017, 06:17:21 pm »

There is a lot of attitude that we have it all right now, we are on the right track, and all of humanity before us was a clusterf* of ignorance and bigotry.

Does that seem like a strange sort of arrogance to anyone else? After all, it involves making virtually everyone from history into villains, while touting our new "tolerance" morality structure as the supreme good. It ignores the real lessons of history, particularly the narrow-sightedness of any group of people during their own short time on earth, and elevates our present generation to an absurd pedestal of superior understanding.

Does anyone else feel like this ideology is the supreme expression of arrogance? Do the extreme conflicts within it raise any eyebrows? I know the thread has devolved into treating the human mind like a computer that needs to be reprogrammed, but I'm responding more to the original direction of the thread.
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Zanthius
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Re: You have lost
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2017, 06:13:54 pm »

There is a lot of attitude that we have it all right now, we are on the right track, and all of humanity before us was a clusterf* of ignorance and bigotry.

Well, that is not entirely true. Societies started to become patriarchal some thousand years ago, and discrimination of women came as a consequence of patriarchy. There isn't much evidence of discrimination against women before the first patriarchal societies formed.  Discrimination against homosexuals seems to have come even later. There was acceptance for homosexuality in ancient Greece, and early Buddhist texts don't seem to discriminate against homosexuals.

Ethnic discrimination might always have existed. Even in the lower paleolithic era, when humans lived in small groups, they might occasionally have acquired slaves from other groups. There might have been widespread discrimination against Neanderthals, which caused them to go extinct. Anyhow, do you really think it is arrogance to argue against slavery and discrimination, just because it has been common for most of human history?

This way of arguing seems similar to: "Religions can't be all wrong since so many people believe in them". Also then, according to your way of thinking, the first atheists must have been extremely arrogant. But isn't intellectual arrogance more about your unwillingness to listen to arguments from other people? If you listen to other people, but find errors in their ways of thinking, is that also arrogance?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 08:45:25 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: You have lost
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2017, 06:33:35 pm »

Btw. Here are some of the courses I have signed up for at http://www.coursera.org. Great site! And for most of the courses you only need to pay if you want a diploma.



The University of Leiden even have a course about what I thought about regarding taxes:

« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 10:28:01 am by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: You have lost
« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2017, 03:53:23 pm »

Told you you weren't alone…
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Zanthius
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Re: You have lost
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2017, 07:00:07 pm »

Told you you weren't alone…

Yeah, I am impressed with the professors at Leiden University in Holland. They seem to be very forwarding thinking, and have global perspective. Check out this video this guy has made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeAvBvf_N6I&feature=youtu.be

But even if I am not alone, we might be moving too slow. I am worried about Russia and China moving in to replace USA as world leaders now ( https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/russia-role-in-new-world-order-by-sergei-karaganov-2017-02 ). What better time to attack than when you have a dysfunctional president? And then we can just forget about such luxuries as press freedom and civil rights.

Here is a quote from the article:
Quote
But there is reason to believe that a new global order may be on the horizon – one with the potential to be more stable and orderly than Pax Americana ever was. One key pillar of that order will be Russia.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 11:22:15 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: You have lost
« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2017, 09:12:50 am »

Does anyone else feel like this ideology is the supreme expression of arrogance?

They have a course even to help me with that Smiley

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