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Author Topic: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?  (Read 1012 times)
Zanthius
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What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« on: December 23, 2016, 09:29:10 pm »



I kinda think 90% taxes for the richest isn't so bad. If you earn more than 100 million USD a year, you still get more than 10 million USD...
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Scalare
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2016, 11:21:25 pm »

I think 60% or 65% is the most any person should pay. But this also goes for companies. I'm sorry for my country (the netherlands) that helps american evilcorps evade paying any taxes in the USA.
Also, your system regardless of the percentages makes it really weird to pay taxes and I don't think it's in place anywhere. Because people going from any group to the next one will have to pay double the taxes. If you calculate it through a lot of people will forego wage increases at all.

For example you earn $60000 each year and pay 30% taxes because you're upper middle class.Leaving you with $42000 each year.

The $70000 mark makes you proceed to the rich class so when you get a wage increase to $70000 you pay 55% taxes,  That leaves you $31500 each year.
Meaning that because your boss payed you more you have to sell your house Wink.

That's why most systems in place pay no tax over the first 'part' of your wage, and increasingly more over each next 'part'.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 11:42:51 pm by Scalare » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2016, 11:29:38 pm »

I think 60% or 65% is the most any person should pay. But this also goes for companies. I'm sorry for my country (the netherlands) that helps american evilcorps evade paying any taxes in the USA.

Why? I think it is ridiculous that many progressive tax systems stop to increase at about 40%.

For example:

Person A earns 200 000 a year and pays 30% income taxes.
Person B earn 400 000 a year and pays 40% income taxes.
But since 40% is the maximum, person C also pays 40% income taxes, even though he earns 4 000 000.

Person A is then left with 140 000 after taxes.
Person B is then left with 280 000 after taxes.
While person C is left with 2 800 000.....

You really think it is fair that person B has to pay the same percentage as person C, even though he earns 10 times less?Huh?
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Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2016, 11:47:40 pm »

Because people going from any group to the next one will have to pay double the taxes. If you calculate it through a lot of people will forego wage increases at all.

Sure. It is just a model. I don't even specify what constitutes the different groups. In reality, of course there should be a continuous graph. Maybe I should make it like that not to confuse people. But I think it is easier for people to understand a graph divided into groups like that. A continuous graph won't have any groups... Just a calculated percentage according to your income.

Maybe this graph is better:
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 11:57:27 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Scalare
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 12:43:08 am »

Because people going from any group to the next one will have to pay double the taxes. If you calculate it through a lot of people will forego wage increases at all.

Sure. It is just a model. I don't even specify what constitutes the different groups. In reality, of course there should be a continuous graph. Maybe I should make it like that not to confuse people. But I think it is easier for people to understand a graph divided into groups like that. A continuous graph won't have any groups... Just a calculated percentage according to your income.

Maybe this graph is better:

If it's just a model then what do you want our opinion on? If we think rich people should pay more taxes? Yeah sure Smiley.
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Death 999
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2016, 12:44:54 am »

Yeah, that.

To clarify the problem Scalare originally raised - it isn't that it wasn't curved. It's that the percent is calculated on the total rather than the marginal dollar. The marginal dollar is each dollar asit comes in. You tax each one as if it was the last.

So, for instance the rich people would earn their 'poorest' income at no taxes, then their 'poor' income at low taxes, their 'lower middle class' income at higher taxes, 'upper middle class' income at higher taxes, and the rest of the income that puts them in the rich range would be taxed at the 'rich' level.

You can fix it by just changing 'percentage of income paid in taxes' to 'marginal tax rates'
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Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2016, 12:52:37 am »

You can fix it by just changing 'percentage of income paid in taxes' to 'marginal tax rates'

Ok. Thank you for clarifying (I am a moron when it comes to taxes). I will change it, but do you like more the first or the last graph?

I can even have it combined like this if you think it is easier to understand then:
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 01:15:50 am by Zanthius » Logged
Scalare
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2016, 02:05:44 am »

Yeah, that.

To clarify the problem Scalare originally raised - it isn't that it wasn't curved. It's that the percent is calculated on the total rather than the marginal dollar. The marginal dollar is each dollar asit comes in. You tax each one as if it was the last.

So, for instance the rich people would earn their 'poorest' income at no taxes, then their 'poor' income at low taxes, their 'lower middle class' income at higher taxes, 'upper middle class' income at higher taxes, and the rest of the income that puts them in the rich range would be taxed at the 'rich' level.

You can fix it by just changing 'percentage of income paid in taxes' to 'marginal tax rates'
That's a different model altogether, not what he meant by having 90% at the richest level and the 100 / 10 million example he posed.

The model you propose is the one we have right now  where I live.

This is what it's like for 2017.

1: until € 19.981 - 36,55%
2: from € 19.982 until € 33.790 - 40,8%
3: from € 33.791 until € 67.071 - 40,8%
4: from € 67.072 - 52%
(that's french notation of numbers by the way. the reason why 2 and 3 are the same is because they use almost the same scale for people who are over legal retirement age (65 and 9 months), but they are taxed less in the 2nd bracket)

I earn around € 42.000 a year, so from income tax I have to pay € 16.276.  Which is around 39% income tax.
I believe the US system is the same, but with more brackets and less tax overall.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 02:14:00 am by Scalare » Logged
Scalare
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2016, 02:07:04 am »

You can fix it by just changing 'percentage of income paid in taxes' to 'marginal tax rates'

Ok. Thank you for clarifying (I am a moron when it comes to taxes). I will change it, but do you like more the first or the last graph?

I can even have it combined like this if you think it is easier to understand then:

I think the graph confuses it too much, don't use a graph at all because you don't explain what the 'classes' are and how they are established.
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Death 999
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2016, 03:28:35 am »

That's a different model altogether, not what he meant by having 90% at the richest level and the 100 / 10 million example he posed.

... yes, and that's the problem you had with it. Adjusting marginal taxes is much better than replacing it with a clunkier, less fair system. The current system's basic formula is OK. I took him to mean adjusting the values. 90% is a far, far cry from any current rate, so it's still worth talking about.
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Scalare
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2016, 04:18:42 am »

That's a different model altogether, not what he meant by having 90% at the richest level and the 100 / 10 million example he posed.

... yes, and that's the problem you had with it. Adjusting marginal taxes is much better than replacing it with a clunkier, less fair system. The current system's basic formula is OK. I took him to mean adjusting the values. 90% is a far, far cry from any current rate, so it's still worth talking about.

Is 90% even possible to achieve with marginal taxes?
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Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2016, 01:47:29 pm »

I have made a new graph with more specified categories.

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Death 999
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2016, 03:39:26 pm »

That's a different model altogether, not what he meant by having 90% at the richest level and the 100 / 10 million example he posed.

... yes, and that's the problem you had with it. Adjusting marginal taxes is much better than replacing it with a clunkier, less fair system. The current system's basic formula is OK. I took him to mean adjusting the values. 90% is a far, far cry from any current rate, so it's still worth talking about.

Is 90% even possible to achieve with marginal taxes?

You can have a marginal tax bracket of 90%, obviously. If you put a marginal tax above 90%, then someone with sufficient income beyond that would face a 90% total tax rate; if they earned more, it would go higher, asymptotically approaching whatever the top bracket was.

I don't think going that high is a particularly good idea.
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Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2016, 04:04:14 pm »

I don't think going that high is a particularly good idea.

Why not? What do you think would be a good maximum percentage, that still would be able to decrease economic inequality in the world?



I see that Bernie Sanders only goes to 52%. (http://www.bernietax.com/#0;0).. but his proposal is much better than the one you have now. I don't know if it is going high enough though... maybe something between my proposal and Bernie's.

I think I will settle for a marginal tax of 75% for those earning more than 5 million USD / year.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 05:12:44 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2016, 05:46:06 pm »

I earn around € 42.000 a year, so from income tax I have to pay € 16.276.  Which is around 39% income tax.
I believe the US system is the same, but with more brackets and less tax overall.

With my system you would pay something like:

from 0 to 15000 -> 0 USD
from 15000 to 35000-> 1000 USD
from 35000 to 42000-> 1050 USD

Total=2050 USD

That is actually much less than you pay now....It is a bit inaccurate since my system is based on USD, not euro

I think your country starts at a too high percentage, which is not very good for poor people.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2016, 05:54:55 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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