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Author Topic: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?  (Read 1881 times)
Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2016, 08:22:58 am »

People in general don't want to pay taxes period. It has little to do with being against what the government is spending it for and no one is going to be happy to pay higher taxes based on the fact that they can dictate where they get spent.

It is true that people in general dislike paying taxes, but the reason why rich people dislike taxes is very different from the reason why poor people dislike taxes. Poor people dislike taxes because it has a direct impact on their lifestyles. If they payed less taxes, they might afford a better vacation, a better computer, and so on.

Rich people don't dislike taxes because it has a direct impact on their lifestyles. They are not economically restricted to go anywhere on vacation just because of taxes.  To rich people taxes are much more like involuntary donations, and if you are ever going to give a large sum of money in donation, I believe you will care a great deal about what that donation is used for.
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Scalare
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2016, 09:05:23 am »

People in general don't want to pay taxes period. It has little to do with being against what the government is spending it for and no one is going to be happy to pay higher taxes based on the fact that they can dictate where they get spent.

It is true that people in general dislike paying taxes, but the reason why rich people dislike taxes is very different from the reason why poor people dislike taxes. Poor people dislike taxes because it has a direct impact on their lifestyles. If they payed less taxes, they might afford a better vacation, a better computer, and so on.

What? Poor people don't even have a computer let alone can go on a 'better' vacation.
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Julie.chan
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2016, 03:55:34 pm »

No, the reason everyone dislikes paying taxes is exactly the same: you're forced to part with some of your money. It affects poor people worse when it does (that effect being not having adequate food, housing, etc and/or having to work even longer hours), but that doesn't change the core reason that everyone wants to choose how to spend their own money.
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Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2016, 04:08:07 pm »

No, the reason everyone dislikes paying taxes is exactly the same: you're forced to part with some of your money. It affects poor people worse when it does (that effect being not having adequate food, housing, etc and/or having to work even longer hours), but that doesn't change the core reason that everyone wants to choose how to spend their own money.

Their own money? I don't know if everybody even regard taxes as "their own money". I think many Europeans think of it as their civic duty to pay taxes, and have a very good understanding of all the communal benefits they get from paying taxes. In the Netherlands (where Scalare comes from), I think they have free dental care, and most European countries have more or less free public health care. Lots of Europeans attend to free public schools, and tuition free universities.

Why don't you Americans worry a bit more about what you are spending money on instead? Like here for example, is a price comparison of some pharmaceutical drugs in different countries:

« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 04:21:18 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Scalare
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2016, 04:24:00 pm »

We don't have free healthcare or free dental care, we pay like E120 each month for obligatory health care insurance.
I think the only country with free healthcare is the UK.
I don't see taxes as debilitatingly harsh, just as a 'neccesary evil'.

You don't see stuff like in detroit in the Netherlands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jijRIFpSbRY

But we're moving more and more to a neo-liberal society. Which sucks.
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Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2016, 04:56:20 pm »

But we're moving more and more to a neo-liberal society. Which sucks.

I think also Europe is moving more and more towards nationalism, and is starting to blame foreigners (particularly Muslims), for everything. Much like nazi-Germany blamed the Jews for everything.
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Julie.chan
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2016, 04:59:17 pm »

Quote
Why don't you Americans worry a bit more about what you are spending money on instead?

It's not unique to Americans. The cause of high healthcare costs is too remote for most people to notice (we're not all economists), and even if it wasn't, any tax increase you face is going to be a short-term detriment to you. In Michigan, that was most recently demonstrated by a proposal to raise the sales tax, which is a flat tax; a sales tax increase would have affected the middle class and poor the most, so most of these people voted against it. The fact that there's a sort of distrust in the government's ability to get anything done just reinforced that decision.
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2016, 07:09:48 pm »

The 'computer' and 'vacation' examples weren't exactly great, but Zanthius' idea does remain - everyone can be concerned about their tax burden, but this tax burden is more pressing on the poor.

That said, I think that a large part of the question of what is done with it applies regardless of how much is being paid. It's a purity thing. People don't want to be involved with things they disapprove of. If I pay $1 in taxes, $100, or $100 000, that massively changes the amount of my contribution but it doesn't necessarily change the feeling that I contributed to everything the government did.

~~

Anyway, I'm very happy with how cool things have stayed here despite the political nature. Keep it up!
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Scalare
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2016, 10:53:43 pm »

The 'computer' and 'vacation' examples weren't exactly great, but Zanthius' idea does remain - everyone can be concerned about their tax burden, but this tax burden is more pressing on the poor.

what do you mean by 'this' tax burden?
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2016, 02:51:12 pm »

Any tax burden, basically, so long as marginal taxes don't go up above 100%, nor increase rapidly from very low to very high. Peoples' need for money is marginally greatest at none, and falls off from there. This is why we don't tax the poorest at all - we'd barely get anything out of it and it would hurt them a lot.
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Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2017, 01:11:02 pm »

Since I cannot publish the manuscript in any journal about politics (since it is too broad and doesn't go sufficiently into detail), I am thinking about writing much more narrow and detailed essays for some of the points. I think the first essay is going to be about why we need international tax regulations to prevent increasing global wealth inequality. Because the main right-wing argument in almost every country for less taxes for the rich is that less taxes for the rich will attract more businesses, and give a competitive advantage against other countries. Yeah, all of that is true, but that is also why wealth inequality continues to increase....



Of course the red-minded only seems to care about the red argument, while the blue-minded only seems to care about the blue argument. But both arguments are equally valid, and that is why we need international tax regulations.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 02:03:21 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Death 999
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2017, 02:07:27 am »

I'd swap the colors to make them line up with the usual colors assigned to the parties.
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Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2017, 06:59:29 am »

I'd swap the colors to make them line up with the usual colors assigned to the parties.

Usual in the United States yes, but red is most commonly assigned to left-wing parties in other countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_colour).  However, red doesn't really capture the essence of that argument, which is empathy generated by mirror neurons in the brain. These mirror neurons seem to be most responsive to the color magenta, so I have made it magenta now.



Anyhow, I found an OECD report from 1998 about harmful tax competition (https://www.oecd.org/tax/transparency/44430243.pdf), and this webpage which argues against tax competition (http://www.taxjustice.net/faq/tax-competition/), so apparently you are right in that there already are organizations working for the same agendas as me. And maybe I don't need to publish anything about this.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 11:16:17 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2017, 11:56:47 pm »

You can certainly ask them if they need any help, though, or find something else that fewer people are working on.
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Zanthius
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Re: What do you guys think about these tax percentages?
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2017, 06:17:18 pm »

I have added a new subsection about local involvement:



I think a common theme in my manuscript, is that people need to be involved to make a society functional/healthy. When cells in a human body become alienated from the body, they turn carcinogenic. When people feel alienated from the government, they tend to vote for people like Donald Trump.

Anyhow. So tomorrow is the big day. I guess you are all going to celebrate his inauguration?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 07:21:01 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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