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Author Topic: Age related education  (Read 1914 times)
Scalare
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2017, 03:40:38 pm »

Also, about connections: Interesting that you brought it up. I am a huge fan of random facts that are somehow connected Smiley.
It is also the reason why we are the apex predator of the earth. Because we have a tendency to see and want to see connections in everything around us.
Neil degrasse tyson explains it perfectly in one of this cosmos shows; the people from the early ages see crops fail a few times when a comet is in the sky, and then they start to think that the comet is an evil god that makes their crops fail.
So to me it explains that the human need to make and explain connections is the reason for both relgion and science to be created. I think that unites every human on the planet, regardless of what they believe in.
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2017, 05:48:23 pm »

About learning from the past through collective knowledge: I think the problem lies with motivations of people what they do with the lessons learned.
Some people want to enlighten humanity as a whole, some want to achieve world peace, some want to gain power and some want to eliminate opposition or those who hurt them in the past.  And they all use the lessons learned from the past to achieve their own goals.

An example of how this works out is Israel using the lesson learned from the past to oppose the arab world, and the way the arab world uses history to oppos the western world and Israel. They are using history as an indoctrination tool to  make their people hate the other people. Instead of focusing on what they have in common they focus on differences and instead of focussing on world peace they focus on eliminating the other side.
That is kind of a sad reality that makes me lose faith in us having learned anything from history.
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Zanthius
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2017, 07:33:15 pm »

That is kind of a sad reality that makes me lose faith in us having learned anything from history.

Many countries focus a lot on their own interpretation of their national history, which is likely to make people more nationalistic. Some degree of nationalism is actually necessary to keep a country together, and that could be one of the reasons why many countries focus a lot upon their own interpretation of their national history.

Focusing upon world history should have the opposite effect. I have focused a little bit more on western European history, than Chinese, Indian, and Arab history. This is mostly because the scientific revolution & the industrial revolution happened in Europe, not in China, India, or the Ottoman Empire. If the scientific and industrial revolution had happened in China, I would have focused a lot more on Chinese history. But unfortunately this is not the case.
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Zanthius
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2017, 11:06:27 pm »

I am also thinking that we could use something like this to help them learn the relationship between the diameter and the circumference of a circle (pi):

« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 11:41:44 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Krulle
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #109 on: September 07, 2017, 10:52:50 am »

Those beads need to be very small, otherwise the gaps between beads will influence the result very much.

Very tricky thing to do and get close to the correct ratio.

 But indeed a nice idea.But by the time they need to learn about Pi, they do not need tis physical excercise to learn about it.
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Zanthius
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #110 on: September 07, 2017, 01:36:29 pm »

Those beads need to be very small, otherwise the gaps between beads will influence the result very much.

They can also just make the rings bigger and bigger, and see that it tends to get closer to the correct ratio the bigger the ring is.

« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 12:12:19 am by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #111 on: September 07, 2017, 08:22:36 pm »

I am also thinking that we could use something like this to help them learn the relationship between the diameter and the circumference of a circle (pi):



Pi is really bad to teach kids about the circumference of a circle. Because going around a circle 360 degrees you get a radius of 2pi Smiley. So it is better to use Tau, which is exactly 2pi.
youtuber Vihart explains it in a fun way (I love her too Tongue)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG7vhMMXagQ

and here's a professor explaining how its harder to teach kids when they use Pi instead of Tau Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83ofi_L6eAo
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Death 999
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2017, 08:33:26 pm »

That is a great demonstration - the best I've ever seen. Like, wow.

EDIT: you changed it! What? I'm talking about the one where you have a square with side a+b and you can either pack it with squares a and b and four abc triangles, or put a c square diagonally across it and fill the corners with abc triangles.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 03:08:59 am by Death 999 » Logged
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2017, 08:58:59 pm »

Indeed, a good demonstration.... Just warn the kids, that you only count the end beads of the diametre half, to count from middle line to middle line.....
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Zanthius
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2017, 11:34:39 pm »

I also think Tau (2 Pi) might be a more useful concept to teach kids Pi.  However, with the rings, you will get less accurate estimates of Tau than of Pi if you only fill half of the diameter across the ring with beads (if the diameter is 13 beads, the radius will be 6.5 beads, and you can't have half a bead).  You would get equally accurate estimates if you filled the entire diameter, and divided it by 2.  That would be a bit more cumbersome for the kids, but it could be beneficial later, like when working with the unit circle. Maybe we could use the formula: Circumference/Diameter=Tau/2, instead of the formula Circumference/Radius=Tau. Then I wouldn't need to change anything on the rings.


Anyhow, I am a bit confused why kids can't learn both Pi and Tau, just like they should be able to learn both what the diameter and the radius of a circle is. This website gives a lot of arguments why we should keep Pi (http://www.thepimanifesto.com/). Not everything becomes easier with Tau. I believe we should keep Pi, but start to use Tau much more when it is appropriate.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 12:15:32 am by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #115 on: September 08, 2017, 11:14:01 am »

I also think Tau (2 Pi) might be a more useful concept to teach kids Pi.  However, with the rings, you will get less accurate estimates of Tau than of Pi if you only fill half of the diameter across the ring with beads (if the diameter is 13 beads, the radius will be 6.5 beads, and you can't have half a bead).  You would get equally accurate estimates if you filled the entire diameter, and divided it by 2.  That would be a bit more cumbersome for the kids, but it could be beneficial later, like when working with the unit circle. Maybe we could use the formula: Circumference/Diameter=Tau/2, instead of the formula Circumference/Radius=Tau. Then I wouldn't need to change anything on the rings.


Anyhow, I am a bit confused why kids can't learn both Pi and Tau, just like they should be able to learn both what the diameter and the radius of a circle is. This website gives a lot of arguments why we should keep Pi (http://www.thepimanifesto.com/). Not everything becomes easier with Tau. I believe we should keep Pi, but start to use Tau much more when it is appropriate.

I think tau should be taught first, then pi Smiley.
By the way I absolutely agree with Death999, what a wonderful method to learn this Smiley
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #116 on: September 08, 2017, 02:12:35 pm »

Do you think all kids all over the world should learn to use the metric system and SI units or can they decide on their own?
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #117 on: September 08, 2017, 08:54:37 pm »

Do you think all kids all over the world should learn to use the metric system and SI units or can they decide on their own?

I don't see any reason why we shouldn't use the same system. It wouldn't necessarily need to be the metric system and SI units, but since that is the most commonly used by scientists, I don't see any reason to change it.

Maybe we all of us should start to use the Kelvin scale for temperature, since it starts at the absolute null point. However, how fast it increases could maybe be a bit more objective. Maybe it should increase with  Planck units (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_temperature).

« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 12:34:52 am by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2017, 02:20:36 am »

I'm saying this because the imperial system causes deaths every year in the USA because of dosage miscalculations.
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2017, 03:09:51 am »

Indeed, a good demonstration.... Just warn the kids, that you only count the end beads of the diametre half, to count from middle line to middle line.....

He changed the image on me. I edited the post you originally replied to to explain what I was talking about.
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