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Author Topic: Age related education  (Read 1843 times)
Julie.chan
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2017, 01:05:06 am »

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I also don't understand why children don't learn about what is going to happen to themselves when they get into puberty.

Huh But... I did!
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Death 999
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2017, 03:37:37 am »

I was taught basically everything when I was 11. That was in time.
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Krulle
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2017, 09:50:26 pm »

Oh, I knew a lot of what was to come, but....
Also, there are very many possible consequences, and nobody could prepare you for all.
More importantly, give kids a place to go to. Councellor at school,... having a list of organisations where you can go for help without costs or your parents knowing about it.
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Zanthius
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2017, 12:07:38 pm »

More importantly, give kids a place to go to. Councellor at school,... having a list of organisations where you can go for help without costs or your parents knowing about it.

Sure, but I think there is something wrong with our culture, if teenagers become shameful about what happens to their bodies during puberty. It is not like if they are guilty of what is happening to their bodies.

And what we feel shameful about, is mostly a cultural phenomena I believe. People in China and Africa, might not feel shameful about the same things as in Europe and USA.

I have made a few changes to the education diagram, but it is still under development:



I have put civics, politics and history of humanity late, not because they are difficult topics, but because it is super important that people get a deep understanding of these topics. If you learn about civics and history of humanity too early, I think you might not understand it deeply enough, and you might forget about it when you get older. And then people elect idiots like Donald Trump.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:02:57 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Julie.chan
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2017, 02:10:50 pm »

I don't think the pure hatred I had toward the changes I went through around the age of 12 was a "cultural phenomena" (by the way, that's "phenomenon"; "phenomena" is plural). Any worldview that assumes that society and culture (a.k.a. "nurture") is purely to blame for problems is simply incorrect. There are other issues at hand.

To be fair, a school counselor wouldn't have helped me all that much either, though suggesting I go to one would have been a better reaction to my disruptiveness than assuming (in retrospect, very strangely) that I needed special education on how to speak properly.
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Zanthius
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2017, 02:20:28 pm »

I don't think the pure hatred I had toward the changes I went through around the age of 12 was a "cultural phenomena" (by the way, that's "phenomenon"; "phenomena" is plural). Any worldview that assumes that society and culture (a.k.a. "nurture") is purely to blame for problems is simply incorrect. There are other issues at hand.

Maybe, but even if there is a biological tendency for people to feel ashamed about what happens to their bodies during puberty, culture can either amplify or de-amplify that tendency. A culture that talks very scientifically about these things from kids are about 8 to about 11 years old, might de-amplify the biological tendency to feel ashamed.

This made me also think about homosexuality. If homosexuals believe that homosexuality is wrong and that they should blame themselves for their homosexual desires, they might feel much more ashamed than if they regard it as something biological.

In the past, lots of individuals felt ashamed when they were sick, because they often believed they got sick because they had sinned in some way.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:40:52 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Julie.chan
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2017, 03:22:20 pm »

even if there is a biological tendency for people to feel ashamed about what happens to their bodies during puberty

I didn't say that, and I don't think that. I said that there are other issues at hand. On this specific issue, I think the "shame" you're talking about which most kids experience is embarrassment (temporary, I might add) about being different in how fast you develop, and that can swing either way. That's such a minor thing, I don't see any particular reason to be concerned about it and just giving them someone to talk to when they're having a bad day is perfectly sufficient.

But you can't generalize these things. Different issues are different. Some issues are almost entirely caused by nurture. The difficulty homosexuals used to have is one of those. Some issues are going to stick around no matter how much you try to change culture to accommodate them. My issue (which I hasten to mention is not the same as what I described above) is one of them. Some issues are somewhere in between. An inability to walk is one of them. So each one has to be addressed separately.

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In the past, I lots of individuals felt ashamed when they were sick, because they often believed they got sick because they had sinned in some way.

I don't think someone who was suffering with Bubonic Plague was terribly concerned about what other people thought of them. And avoiding people who had Bubonic Plague was a good thing; it at least somewhat contained the spread of the disease. If middle age people made a conscious decision to pretend that people who had the Plague were a-okay to be around and carried on as normal with them, the death toll would have been much worse.

Also, the idea that sickness was caused by sin was not to "shame" people. Sickness was just something that people didn't understand, so they came up with the idea of it being a punishment for sin.
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2017, 04:17:51 pm »

But you can't generalize these things. Different issues are different.

Sure, but most of the issues that emerge during puberty, has to do with changes in hormonal levels (probably even homosexuality). Learning a lot about how hormones change during puberty, and how these hormonal changes affect behavior, might be very helpful for people to understand what is happening to themselves during puberty.

Even homosexuality should be included in this topic, so that people learn from an early age that homosexuality can be regarded as something biological.

I don't think someone who was suffering with Bubonic Plague was terribly concerned about what other people thought of them. And avoiding people who had Bubonic Plague was a good thing; it at least somewhat contained the spread of the disease. If middle age people made a conscious decision to pretend that people who had the Plague were a-okay to be around and carried on as normal with them, the death toll would have been much worse.

Okay, but what about burning women they thought were witches and responsible for the plagues? Did that also decrease the death toll?

I was recently to the museum of torture devices in Prague. People were horrible to each other in the middle ages.

Also, the idea that sickness was caused by sin was not to "shame" people. Sickness was just something that people didn't understand, so they came up with the idea of it being a punishment for sin.

Lots of "sinful behavior" seems to have become less sinful as we learned more about the underlying sciences.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 04:24:49 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Julie.chan
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2017, 05:53:15 pm »

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Okay, but what about burning women they thought were witches and responsible for the plagues? Did that also decrease the death toll?

No, and that's a non-sequitur. The point is that understanding and treating the disease is the proper response. Trying to pretend that it doesn't exist, or change society so be accepting of it, is not. You can't solve everything by changing culture.

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Sure, but most of the issues that emerge during puberty, has to do with changes in hormonal levels (probably even homosexuality). Learning a lot about how hormones change during puberty, and how these hormonal changes affect behavior, might be very helpful for people to understand what is happening to themselves during puberty.

To what extent?

I think that the sex ed that I got in the fifth grade was sufficient. It took a couple weeks to my recollection. For most normal people, they don't need to learn about how hormones work or what exactly their timeline of changes is, and they can't know anyway since everyone is a little different. All they need to know is:

"Over the next few years or so, you are going to go through exciting changes. These are the kinds of changes you can expect: [insert changes here]"

Of course, that didn't apply to me, but that's because the changes themselves were devastating. That's specific to a very small percentage of the population that happens to include me. The best that can be done for kids like us is to have someone available to talk to, preferably anonymously, and hope they discover themselves.

As for homosexuality, the only serious problem homosexuals face is intolerance, so tolerance is all that has to be taught. That can even be done at a very young age: "Some kids have two dads or two moms instead of a mom and a dad, and that's okay."
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2017, 06:25:07 pm »

Of course, that didn't apply to me, but that's because the changes themselves were devastating. That's specific to a very small percentage of the population that happens to include me. The best that can be done for kids like us is to have someone available to talk to, preferably anonymously, and hope they discover themselves.

I think all kids should learn about the most common problems that can emerge during puberty, such as for women: menstrual pains, polycystic ovarian syndrome, or endometriosis. And of course about sexually transmittable disease. If everybody learns about such things, those that have such afflictions are more likely to seek help.

But it is also important to learn about psychological changes. About how people usually become much more aware of their body images during puberty. Lots of girls develop unhealthy ideas about their body images during puberty (probably even earlier today). They should learn to have more acceptance of their bodies, and not to strive for something sick and unrealistic.

I am also worried about the "like" button on facebook, and about teenagers commenting images on facebook. Seems like lots of teenagers develop psychological issues now, because their images don't get enough "likes" on facebook, or because other teenagers write cruel comments to their images.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 06:31:27 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2017, 09:08:52 pm »

I have worked more with my education diagram. Quite satisfied now. Maybe a few more changes, if I get more feedback.



In order for this to work, I need to make an integrated "kindergarten - primary school - secondary school - high school". It's probably going to be lots of problems with getting such an education system legal here. So maybe I need to move to a different country, where they don't have such strict rules to follow a "backwards" educational system....
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 05:54:36 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Julie.chan
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2017, 05:34:44 am »

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I think all kids should learn about the most common problems that can emerge during puberty, such as for women: menstrual pains, polycystic ovarian syndrome, or endometriosis. And of course about sexually transmittable disease. If everybody learns about such things, those that have such afflictions are more likely to seek help.

Maybe the school you went to is just really bad, but my school, despite being extremely prudish about it, did teach us all this stuff.

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But it is also important to learn about psychological changes. About how people usually become much more aware of their body images during puberty.

Have you ever heard of the self-fulfilling prophecy? No, it is wrong to tell kids what they are going to think. It is only right to tell them what is going to happen. Again, my school's ridiculously limited sex ed did this.

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They should learn to have more acceptance of their bodies, and not to strive for something sick and unrealistic.

Eating disorders don't develop because people are stupid. They're much more complicated than that. You can't fight them by teaching "acceptance".

Besides, too much acceptance is a bad thing. Some level of unsatisfaction with yourself is a good thing, because it drives you to improve. I, for example, am unsatisfied with my level of Japanese knowledge, and that's the only thing driving my desire to learn more Japanese. So if you successfully teach kids to accept weights that are caused by unhealthy lifestyles (in particular, eating too much carbs and sugar), then they will continue those bad lifestyles, rather than trying to (as they should) reach for the delicious steak or cheese-covered broccoli or stir-fry, instead of the soda or candy or donuts. (Note: schools don't teach correct nutrition information, so kids aren't going to learn this properly in school, but that's beside the point.)

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I am also worried about the "like" button on facebook, and about teenagers commenting images on facebook. Seems like lots of teenagers develop psychological issues now, because their images don't get enough "likes" on facebook, or because other teenagers write cruel comments to their images.

Facebook is just in general a bad place to socialize and is run by an evil company, but the "like" button isn't a problem. Everyone wants approval regardless of where it is. The "like" button on Facebook serves essentially the same function as a nod or brief voice of agreement or pat on the back something to that effect in real life. You can't blame the network because people don't approve of each other's posts in equal proportion, especially considering they don't do that in real life either.
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Zanthius
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2017, 08:12:07 am »

Facebook is just in general a bad place to socialize and is run by an evil company, but the "like" button isn't a problem. Everyone wants approval regardless of where it is. The "like" button on Facebook serves essentially the same function as a nod or brief voice of agreement or pat on the back something to that effect in real life. You can't blame the network because people don't approve of each other's posts in equal proportion, especially considering they don't do that in real life either.

Sure, but people tend to become much more brave on the Internet. There aren't so much social barriers here. In real life people are much more restrained because of social barriers.
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Zanthius
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2017, 07:14:58 pm »

I have now made a new page for this on http://www.archania.org

PDF-version at: http://archania.org/a_modern_blueprint_for_education.pdf
HTML-version at: http://archania.org/a_modern_blueprint_for_education.html
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Re: Age related education
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2017, 06:22:33 pm »

I have made 2 new graphs,

One for the topic called evolutionary history:



And one for the topic called history of humanity:



I like how much information I can get into these small graphs. I also know that some of the dates are not 100% accurate. I focused a bit more on the chronological order, than upon the dates. But it should be quite accurate.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 06:36:57 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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