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Scalare
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2017, 10:21:17 pm »

I can understand if you double post to reply to different discussions, but please edit your post in cases like this.
I also assume you broke a "quote" tage somewhere in the post above.
To be honest, I could not care less

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Media in the Netherlands is bought by the government through the (previous) "postbus 51" information actions. That brings a lot of money to the TV-medias, and in a now different form also to the printed newspapers.

I actually like them, and the distribution of the money is one by reach of the media. It goes more or less independent from the government. It's government money, but it's spent indiscriminate across all media to make sure that the public did have access to important announcements and informations.
The content though is sometimes more political than informational, and those are the ones I object to.

postbus 51 is announced as being controlled by the govt. NOS journaal isn't, it pretends to be independent.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 12:01:30 am by Scalare » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2017, 09:03:00 pm »

Exactly! I disagree with brexit, but now that the people have spoken, it should be upheld.

Yep. I need to say however, that even though I am a strong supporter of an integrated Europe (and integrated world), I am somewhat against the EU and the UN for multiple reasons. But the main reason is that  people living in the EU should be directly involved in electing the people working for the EU, just like the world population should be directly involved in electing the people working for the UN. Electing people that are going to represent us in other elections makes room for corruption. We need to minimize room for corruption.



I have now added this figure to my concluding remarks: http://archania.org/concluding_remarks.html

This should also make it bloody obvious why the EU and the UN are dysfunctional governing bodies, and why we need more directly elected governing bodies.

Should countries even have a right to be independent today? I mean, if USA and China make so much CO2 that they make the entire planet too warm, is that OK for all the other countries?

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This is not permissible -- only subservience shall be tolerated.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 11:05:52 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2017, 02:32:29 pm »

Just wanted to say that they just have released a new course about humility at Coursera.org (https://www.coursera.org/learn/intellectual-humility-science), which I am taking now since I need to become more humble.

They have also released a book about intellectual humility now, which I have ordered: https://www.amazon.com/Intellectual-Humility-Introduction-Philosophy-Science/dp/147423674X/

Module 1: Humility, exploration, and the psychology of child development



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So the development of intellectual humility is about a state of openness to new ideas. We know that it's enhanced by reasoning about inconsistent and ambiguous evidence. Which suggests that when presenting children with new learning tasks and new learning goals, the more you can present information in such a way that highlights inconsistency, ambiguity, or something inconclusive, the more engaged children will be, the more sophisticated their explanations will be, and the better their learning will be. We also know that the state of openness to new ideas is in fact reduced by consistent evidence which has implications for education. Often the way information is presented to children is through a series of consistent facts. We know from a decade of research at this point that this is the least interesting way you can present information to children. You're much better off highlighting inconsistency and incongruity. This is what children are curious about.

Module 2: What makes us arrogant? Biases, heuristics and cognitive psychology



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Suppose instead we say psychologists have devised a test of extraordinary spatial reasoning ability. This test has a 5% false positive rate Of identifying people with normal spacial reasoning abilities as having extraordinary spacial reasoning abilities. So now it's in the positive direction. But it's 100% accurate in identifying people with extraordinary abilities. Only one out of 1,000 people has extraordinarily special reasoning abilities. Now let's say you take a test, and your test says having this positive, extraordinary ability. How likely is that you really have it?  Some would answer that the odds are close to 95%, but, again, the real odds are closer to 2%, because people tend to neglect the 1 out of 1000 figure. So, here, we have a case where the bias yields intellectual arrogance. The point here is that you can go either way depending on what it is the bias is about.

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For example if one wants to think that one is intellectually gifted or particularly precocious, or in some other way has intellectual strengths, one might engage in downward social comparison. What this means, is that one compares themselves to people who have less intellectual prowess than oneself, or at least the one thinks they do, and that makes one feel better. So it's often a strategy that people use to try to enhance their own self image by trying to think about comparison cases that are clearly not fair in the sense that they're people who have more limited abilities.

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A related effect is what we call downward difficulty assessments, and this is where one tests oneself on tasks which are simpler than perhaps what are legitimate comparison cases. For example, suppose one thought one was a great computer programmer, and one tested one's ability computer programming by assigning oneself really simple computer programming examples. In doing that, one could feel very good, because one whips right through them, gets everything right. But it might not be a fair comparison because one's assessing oneself with tasks that are oversimplified.

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So now we see something rather discouraging, that the more one cares about an issue, the more the illusion that one really knows about, and the less one actually knows. So the disconnect, the level of arrogance is stronger the more one cares about an issue, rather than less.

Module 3: Dogmatism and open-mindedness in politics, religion, and life



Module 4: Humility, emotions and human relations: a view from social psychology

« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 10:34:16 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2017, 11:34:55 pm »

I have now added this, based on Cristine H. Legare's research (I love that woman):



http://archania.org/education_motivated_by_intellectual_curiosity.html

This seems so obvious now. Of course we find mysteries more interesting than dry facts...That's why people are so interested in black holes. There is even a movie genre called "mystery". This gives a whole new dimension to the benefits of magic mushrooms and psychedelics, since they tend to make everything seem more mysterious. I don't understand why I didn't realize this myself earlier.

My approach to magic mushrooms and psychedelics might have been completely wrong. Maybe I should have just focused upon making them appear more mysterious.....



http://www.archania.org/magic_mushrooms_and_mysterious_phenomena.html
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 03:01:19 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2017, 12:00:32 am »

I think you should focus your research on methoxetamine. It's the closest thing to the drug in Limitless.
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2017, 05:10:58 pm »

Anyway... Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFZOUyslti8
Here Elon Musk talks about how AI can manipulate news to cause wars.
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2017, 06:24:28 pm »

Anyway... Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFZOUyslti8
Here Elon Musk talks about how AI can manipulate news to cause wars.

Well... I don't know, maybe if it is a deep learning algorithm working for a company that sells military equipment. But even then I think people working for that company would need to guide it in that direction, which of course they could.

Deep learning algorithms working for Google and Facebook might have a lot of power to manipulate news, but will do so probably mostly on guidelines from the people working in those companies, and I doubt they are interested in starting wars. If I have a lot of money, I could however pay for advertising on Google and Facebook, and those advertisements could contain fake news.

I do think deep learning algorithms, just like nuclear physics, can be made into weapons. The greatest treat might be from deep learning algorithms developed by Russia and China, which might have been  made with the intention to destabilize western Europe and USA.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 06:28:22 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2017, 06:40:07 pm »

Anyway... Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFZOUyslti8
Here Elon Musk talks about how AI can manipulate news to cause wars.

Well... I don't know, maybe if it is a deep learning algorithm working for a company that sells military equipment. But even then I think people working for that company would need to guide it in that direction, which of course they could.

Deep learning algorithms working for Google and Facebook might have a lot of power to manipulate news, but will do so probably mostly on guidelines from the people working in those companies, and I doubt they are interested in starting wars. If I have a lot of money, I could however pay for advertising on Google and Facebook, and those advertisements could contain fake news.

I do think deep learning algorithms, just like nuclear physics, can be made into weapons. The greatest treat might be from deep learning algorithms developed by Russia and China, which might have been  made with the intention to destabilize western Europe and USA.



That's a very western-centric statement. Do you remember the bush administration fabricating evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? AI-assisted mass media manipulation would make that even easier, and it could even personalize the news for specific groups of people or even individuals, to sway you from finding out the truth.
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2017, 10:38:53 pm »

That's a very western-centric statement. Do you remember the bush administration fabricating evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? AI-assisted mass media manipulation would make that even easier, and it could even personalize the news for specific groups of people or even individuals, to sway you from finding out the truth.

Since you think I am so western-centric, I made this graph to you, which compares Netherlands, Germany, USA, Russia, and China according to Press Freedom Index, Corruption Perceptions Index, and Democracy Index.  I don't live in any of these countries.


« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 10:48:30 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2017, 10:01:10 am »

That's a very western-centric statement. Do you remember the bush administration fabricating evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? AI-assisted mass media manipulation would make that even easier, and it could even personalize the news for specific groups of people or even individuals, to sway you from finding out the truth.

Since you think I am so western-centric, I made this graph to you, which compares Netherlands, Germany, USA, Russia, and China according to Press Freedom Index, Corruption Perceptions Index, and Democracy Index.  I don't live in any of these countries.




Those numbers don't really say anything. The Netherlands is very high in those things but I know for a fact that the press is steered into writing what government and more importantly corporations want. Corruption perception? My parents were offered a house if they voted for a certain political party. And many politicians use their power to enrich themselves or their friends. Democracy? That's quite possibly the biggest farce. For example the referendum which we talked about earlier. And one of the political parties promisiing the lowering of the own risk with the health insurance, but immediately going back on that promise when they enter the government. And then there's the poldermodel, which basically gives local or national governments the possibility to delegate their decision power to stakeholders involved (which is usually companies vs people or something like that). It does well in giving the illusion of democracy while giving more power to corporates.
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2017, 08:41:35 pm »

Those numbers don't really say anything.

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Press Freedom Index
The report is partly based on a questionnaire[3] which asks questions about pluralism, media independence, environment and self-censorship, legislative framework, transparency, and infrastructure. The questionnaire takes account of the legal framework for the media (including penalties for press offences, the existence of a state monopoly for certain kinds of media and how the media are regulated) and the level of independence of the public media. It also includes violations of the free flow of information on the Internet. Violence against journalists, netizens, and media assistants, including abuses attributable to the state, armed militias, clandestine organisations or pressure groups, are monitored by RSF staff during the year and are also part of the final score. A smaller score on the report corresponds to greater freedom of the press as reported by the organisation. The questionnaire is sent to Reporters Without Borders's partner organisations: 1) 18 freedom of expression non-governmental organisations located in five continents, 2) its 150 correspondents around the world, and also 3) journalists, researchers, jurists and human rights activists.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

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Corruption Perceptions Index
Transparency International commissioned Johann Graf Lambsdorff of the University of Passau to produce the Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI).[4] The 2012 CPI draws on 13 different surveys and assessments from 12 different institutions.[5] The institutions are the African Development Bank, the Bertelsmann Foundation, the Economist Intelligence Unit, Freedom House, Global Insight, International Institute for Management Development, Political and Economic Risk Consultacy, The PRS Group, Inc., the World Economic Forum, the World Bank and the World Justice Project.[6] Countries must be assessed by at least three sources to appear in the CPI.[7] The 13 surveys/assessments are either business people opinion surveys or performance assessments from a group of analysts.[2] Early CPIs used public opinion surveys.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

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Democracy Index
As described in the report,[2] the democracy index is a weighted average based on the answers of 60 questions, each one with either two or three permitted alternative answers. Most answers are "experts' assessments"; the report does not indicate what kinds of experts, nor their number, nor whether the experts are employees of the Economist Intelligence Unit or independent scholars, nor the nationalities of the experts. Some answers are provided by public-opinion surveys from the respective countries. In the case of countries for which survey results are missing, survey results for similar countries and expert assessments are used in order to fill in gaps. The questions are distributed in the five categories: electoral process and pluralism, civil liberties, functioning of government, political participation, and political culture. Each answer is translated to a mark, either 0 or 1, or for the three-answer alternative questions, 0.5. With the exceptions mentioned below, the sums are added within each category, multiplied by ten, and divided by the total number of questions within the category.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

The Netherlands is very high in those things but I know for a fact that the press is steered into writing what government and more importantly corporations want. Corruption perception? My parents were offered a house if they voted for a certain political party. And many politicians use their power to enrich themselves or their friends.



http://archania.org/the_never-ending_battle_against_our_cognitive_biases.html

Democracy? That's quite possibly the biggest farce. For example the referendum which we talked about earlier. And one of the political parties promisiing the lowering of the own risk with the health insurance, but immediately going back on that promise when they enter the government. And then there's the poldermodel, which basically gives local or national governments the possibility to delegate their decision power to stakeholders involved (which is usually companies vs people or something like that). It does well in giving the illusion of democracy while giving more power to corporates.

I am sure there are lots of things that are not perfect in Netherlands. I live in a country which comes up better than Netherlands in all of these indexes, and there are lots of things here that aren't perfect.  But I have a wife that comes from a country which scores much worse in all of these indexes, and she thinks the problems I am  complaining about in this country are very trivial compared to the problems they have in the country she comes from. I have also lived in a country which scores much worse in all of these indexes, and even if things aren't perfect here, things were certainly much worse there in regard to corruption and such things. Netherlands might be a shitty country, but it comes up better than most other countries, because they are even more shitty.

Also, the difference between Netherlands and China/Russia is HUGE in these indexes. One might argue that Germany might be a more democratic country than Netherlands, since it is so close in the ranking. But Russia and China aren't exactly close to Netherlands in any of these indexes.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 08:54:51 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2017, 02:34:54 pm »

It makes no sense discussing with you, Zanthius, but would you please research what through what country the most profit of american companies is sent, to make sure that no taxes have to be paid?
Cayman islands? Bermuda? No, the Netherlands. 18% of all foreign profit by american companies goes through the netherlands, to effectively pay no taxes.
All arranged by a deliberate loophole introduced by former state sectretary Joop Wijn, who made sure that american companies up until now have evaded 450 billion dollars in taxes.

But feel free to come up with another list or graph Smiley
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2017, 03:17:47 pm »

But feel free to come up with another list or graph Smiley

You know, you can also add a source and/or graphs to your own assertions.



This shows that Netherlands is heavily involved in letting the super rich multinational companies steal from the poorest people in the world, but it doesn't necessarily indicate that you have an undemocratic country, overall corrupt country, or don't have press freedom. In fact, you probably read about this in a Dutch newspaper, which shows that you do indeed have freedom of the press. If this had happened in Russia or China, newspapers wouldn't necessarily dare to write about it, since they would risk being liquidated then.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 03:21:27 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2017, 03:24:12 pm »

Quite - the three assertions about the Netherlands made up top have nothing at all to do with being a tax haven. This can be considered corruption, but only in a loose sense, because the interests of the Netherlands are not being betrayed by its servants. Instead, they are playing a negative-sum game with other countries, which is a rather different thing altogether.
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Re: Trust issues
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2017, 04:29:25 pm »

Quite - the three assertions about the Netherlands made up top have nothing at all to do with being a tax haven. This can be considered corruption, but only in a loose sense, because the interests of the Netherlands are not being betrayed by its servants. Instead, they are playing a negative-sum game with other countries, which is a rather different thing altogether.

Yep, and Leiden University (in Netherlands) even have a course about this topic: https://www.coursera.org/learn/international-taxation

So, even if Netherlands is heavily involved in this dirty business, there are lots of smart people from the Netherlands working against this.
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