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Author Topic: Cognitive Biases  (Read 738 times)
Zanthius
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2017, 01:56:25 pm »

The problem is that you didn't even define what is cognitive bias?

Cognitive biases are systematic errors, or predictive errors, in normal thinking for humans.



The upper one looks shorter, but they are actually equally long. This is a systematic error in our perception.

The difference between the left and right is that the left is pro diversity of Demographics and the right is pro diversity of opinions.
The first choose to control people's thoughts.

This does not seem like an accurate description of what is different between the left and the right.

Edit: Also not all cognitive biases are bad.
For instance sexual preferences IS cognitive bias.

Sexual preferences, food preferences, music preferences, and so on, are not cognitive biases.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 01:58:13 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Sargon
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2017, 03:00:19 pm »

Do you have an example of cognitive bias that is not an optical illusion?
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Zanthius
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2017, 04:44:55 pm »

Do you have an example of cognitive bias that is not an optical illusion?



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 04:51:26 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Sargon
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2017, 05:19:33 pm »

Yes, I see those cognitive biases in arguments on the internet.
And to have people be able to "work around it", like recognizing when they do it themselves or other do it, they need to study Philosophy and be exposed to a diversity of... opinions.
I don't see how diversity of ethnicities got to do anything about it, unless you say there is something inherently different in people from different ethnicity that affect the diversity of opinions.
It's kind of like how activists complain that black children don't have black teacher to identify with.
Does that mean that white and black people are so different that a black child cannot identify with a white teacher?

Edit: I think that you are correct that people have "toxic prejudice".
An ideology is not toxic, you can think about an ideology you don't agree with without believing it.
So it's more an emotional prejudice than that some ideas are toxic.
I used to call it "hidden agenda".
For instance, you would see a lot of Feminist hate white men or hate the West.
So, they don't say it up straight "We hate you".
What they do is that on every subject matter they argue things(different things) that their end result is bad for white men.
This is hidden agenda.
For instance you could say that some Feminist pro for immigration from Syria, actually want it because they hate white men and want to replace them, but they would make excuses like it's good for the economy(proven to be false) or they are perscuted and poor(most of them are work immigrants and not even kids, 30 males).
So this is a hidden agenda that make them choose a different argument for every subject that hides their true intent.

It's like, you want an end result of B, but you don't want to tell why you want that. So instead you argue something else that will lead to the same end result without having to disclose your real reason.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 05:37:57 pm by Sargon » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2017, 08:45:32 am »

For instance you could say that some Feminist pro for immigration from Syria, actually want it because they hate white men and want to replace them, but they would make excuses like it's good for the economy(proven to be false) or they are perscuted and poor(most of them are work immigrants and not even kids, 30 males).

This might, or it may not, be the case. I doubt that all feminists hate white men, and I doubt that all feminists want to have more immigrants from Syria. There are probably some feminists that want to have more immigrants from Syria, but not necessarily because they hate white men and want to replace them.

So this is a hidden agenda that make them choose a different argument for every subject that hides their true intent.

It is true that people often aren't completely aware of their own motivations. However, I don't necessarily think that you have insight into their true motivations either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introspection_illusion
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Sargon
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2017, 09:15:07 am »

You can tell what is their true intention if you do intersection of several issues.
They have different arguments for different issues that don't seem to be consistent and make sense.
For instance Feminists might say they want to end violence against women, yet they support Shaira law or Muslims which treat women badly.
So from all their different argument you can extract their true intentions, kind of like how you would find the real wave form if you have enough samples.
This is not introspection, there is a fallacy for almost anything.
I could say you are using the fallacy fallacy. Which you view everything as a fallacy.

Edit: And sure, not all Feminists. I am talking about third wave Feminist, which also don't like the old generations of true Feminists.
The old Feminist will be gone soon, and then Feminism will be what it is now with young people.

A more recent example. Ben Affleck has become a sort of Feminist and some sort of pro women/pro equality guy. He has been vocal about it.\
Yet he had many incident throught his career of sexual harrasment, maybe even assault, and indecent exposure in front of women.
This is a guy who does becomes a white knight to cover on his own behavior.

Someone smart said that it's easy to say whatever you want but it's not easy to do.
So people could say all sort of things that sound noble, that doesn't mean they actually act like that.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 09:22:50 am by Sargon » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2017, 09:29:08 am »

You can tell what is their true intention if you do intersection of several issues.

I wonder what is your true intention for being so concerned about the real motives of feminist women.
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Sargon
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2017, 12:37:10 pm »

What is your concern with "toxic ideologies". You are the one trying to prove you can tell other people's ideologoy and thoughts are wrong and toxic and yours are right and noble. You are the one encoyraging overeach and control.
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Zanthius
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2017, 01:05:28 pm »

What is your concern with "toxic ideologies". You are the one trying to prove you can tell other people's ideologoy and thoughts are wrong and toxic and yours are right and noble. You are the one encoyraging overeach and control.

Is that so.... Well, when it comes to cognitive biases, I have just as much of them as any other person. We all have cognitive biases. Even machine learning algorithms are prone to certain biases.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 01:39:44 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2017, 01:53:29 pm »

If cognitive bias is inherent to Human biology then you cannot do much about it. Your approach wouldnt work.
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Zanthius
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2017, 01:59:56 pm »

If cognitive bias is inherent to Human biology then you cannot do much about it. Your approach wouldnt work.

Cognitive biases are inherent in human biology, but the more you are aware of your cognitive biases, the more you can try to prevent yourself from falling into them.

I can for example never see these 2 lines as being equally long:



But if I know that they are equally long, I can learn to be distrustful of my eyes when I see such lines.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 02:04:49 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Sargon
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2017, 04:52:52 pm »

Yes, but the lines case is a geometric problem, while arguing something non mathematical isn't as straight forward.
We don't really have tools to measure the toxicity of "ideologies" and even if we do, what if they would measure that open borders and things you are for are also toxic?

Edit: Also people have different taste. Like some people like different kind of foods, they might like also different kinds of ideas.
People are born different, almost no two people are identical(unless we are talking about identical twins and even then they have differences).
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 04:56:10 pm by Sargon » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2017, 04:56:07 pm »

Yes, but the lines case is a geometric problem, while arguing something non mathematical isn't as straight forward.
We don't really have tools to measure the toxicity of "ideologies" and even if we do, what if they would measure that open borders and things you are for are also toxic?

What makes you think I am for open borders?
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Sargon
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2017, 04:56:31 pm »

The "one Democracy" thing.
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Zanthius
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Re: Cognitive Biases
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2017, 05:10:49 pm »

The "one Democracy" thing.

Ok, but that doesn't necessarily imply that I want to have open borders:



http://www.archania.org/criteria_for_a_healthy_democracy.html

I don't necessarily even think California should be forced to have open border to the other states in US, unless they want to. I generally think it is a bad idea to force immigration upon a population that doesn't want immigrants.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 05:16:43 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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