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Author Topic: Star Control: Connecting the dots  (Read 808 times)
Death 999
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2017, 04:00:05 am »

>  American English is such a dumbed down language that it has lost all sense of nuance as compared to for example British English

… really, or is it simply that broadcasting is written at a 5th grade level? I am quite serious: what nuance is missing from American English that British English possesses?
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Zanthius
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2017, 08:08:01 am »

I could learn 4 languages (I actually do speak dutch fluently and english quite well, but I can understand french and german).

So, will we teach our children 4 languages, or do we choose those languages in such a way to make our kids more open minded?

It is also important for people to learn languages that will be useful for them in a practical way. If you live in Vietnam, it might be more useful for you to learn Mandarin and Japanese, rather than German and Spanish.

What about splitting the two regional languages into one called "the most practical language" and another called "the most exotic lamguage"? Where the exotic language will serve to broaden your mind.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 08:46:32 am by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2017, 09:23:25 am »

>  American English is such a dumbed down language that it has lost all sense of nuance as compared to for example British English

… really, or is it simply that broadcasting is written at a 5th grade level? I am quite serious: what nuance is missing from American English that British English possesses?

Thanks for making me clarify. Yes, I meant the American English that reaches us through American media and broadcasting vs the English that reaches us through british media.
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2017, 09:29:34 am »

I could learn 4 languages (I actually do speak dutch fluently and english quite well, but I can understand french and german).

So, will we teach our children 4 languages, or do we choose those languages in such a way to make our kids more open minded?

It is also important for people to learn languages that will be useful for them in a practical way. If you live in Vietnam, it might be more useful for you to learn Mandarin and Japanese, rather than German and Spanish.

What about splitting the two regional languages into one called "the most practical language" and another called "the most exotic lamguage"? Where the exotic language will serve to broaden your mind.

That would be a nice idea. But please realize that we are treading on dangerous territory here.
Controlling which languages a child learns might also be controlling which cultures it is likely to be influenced by. It might lead to inconvenient results. Not that I think that children learning russian might always be more likely to become anti-american something like that, but still it could be nice to hypothesize about this here Smiley.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 12:02:40 am by Scalare » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2017, 09:01:52 pm »

Here is the new version:



http://archania.org/education_motivated_by_intellectual_curiosity.html
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 09:05:48 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2017, 07:49:42 am »

It is likely that you are aware of the sapir-whorff hypothesis, since it's such a popular theory, but if you're not it is interesting to look into.
With as a main standpoint that your language influences the way you think. With as main poster child the hopi tribe who have a different concept of time in their language, and as such appear to think differently about the concept of time.
This theory has been largely proven as false, but it still accepted in a general sense.
So I wonder if children would have different states of mind just because of their language alone.

I don't really think that it does much from a linguistic perspective. What kind of thought patterns do I have because of the fact that I speak dutch natively as opposed to the way I would think if I spoke english natively, from a pure linguistic perspective?
I can't really name one. Maybe except that we have the possibility to create compound words from nouns without them having to be uniformly accepted, like german speakers also can.
It enables us to be more specific and nuanced, but it also might indoctrinate us into thinking that because it is a new word it is a new concept entirely, and then it gains a new meaning based on the context and culture in which it is spoken. We see this often in politics, with demagogues inventing compound words to use as tools to play the masses, or with leftish politicians forming committees that try to invent words that don't offend anyone. I think that the English speaking world does this less because joining two words in a sentence with a space between them leads to them being separated, moved or replaced more easily without giving the impression that you're a demagogue/leftist trying to invent a new word to further your own agenda.

Examples of these words are:
- participatiesamenleving (participation society). Coined by King Willem-Alexander in his first royal adress. Meant to replace the 'verzorgingsstaat' (welfare state) to a society in which everybody needs to participate and carry their own weight.
- weigerambtenaar (refusing government official). In this case specifically referring to refusing to perform/record/acknowledge a gay marriage, mostly because of personal beliefs. Because this word has now been contextualized to mean exactly that in the minds of the society it can never be used again to mean something differently, ie. refusing to approve a permit for a house
- kopvoddentaks (very derogatory term for 'niqab tax'), normally it would be referred to as 'hoofddoekjesbelasting'. Coined by Right-wing politician Geert Wilders because he wanted to impose taxes upon the wearing of these muslim headscarves (yes, really).

And that's where I quit posting examples. Because I realized that the point I made about compound words is wrong. Perhaps with the exception of 'weigerambtenaar', and then only because it is more concise, I am having a very hard time finding examples that would not have the same effect as they would if they were translated to English and used by English-speaking politicians. So I guess the conclusion is that from the linguistic perspective compound words don't affect dutch people more than they would if they were translated to English.
I guess that was a good excercize that made me realize my mistake.
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2017, 04:26:40 pm »

Funny how that works sometimes… Brief phrases can definitely take on a life of their own, sometimes helpful to the inventor, sometimes not.
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Zanthius
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2017, 06:48:37 pm »

The main relationship I see between language and culture, has to do with cultural emotional investment in words. For example, the word "socialism" often has positive emotional associations in European culture, while it often has negative emotional associations in U.S. culture. The emotional association to other words like; "Islam", "Jesus", "Atheist", "Democracy", "Putin", "Homosexual" and "Abortion" also varies a lot between cultures.

The thing is... if I learned English in Europe, I might not get emotionally negative associations to the word "socialism". If however I learned English in the United States, I might get a bonus of negative emotional associations when I learned the word. So I guess you could say that language is a subset of culture, or that someone that has learned the American culture with the language included, has learned more than a person that just has learned the language.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 07:08:52 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2017, 09:27:55 pm »

It's really hard to invade and occupy a country at all, let alone one with that many internal stresses (many externally induced, some by your allies), and not have things quickly go to rubbish.

Trump: New Afghanistan Strategy Is ‘Killing Terrorists,’ Not ‘Nation-Building’

http://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-new-afghanistan-strategy-is-killing-terrorists-not-nation-building

Not a very good idea, compared to building the educational facilities I have proposed. It is super hard to defeat an ideology by killing people, because no matter how many you kill, there are probably going to be a lot of people that you won't be able to kill that will continue to spread their stupid ideology. And they will be even more eager to spread their stupid ideology when you are trying to kill them. They will also hate you more when you kill their friends and relatives, and they will be less willing to give up the stupid ideology they are adhering to.

The educational facilities I am proposing won't generate a lot of hate towards you. They will simply make these people better informed, and then they will have less reason to adhere to their stupid ideology.

No offense, but the militaristic strategy your country is proposing to defeat terrorists seems rather primitive and simple-minded.

And your country has a huge national debt. I am almost certain that this project is going to be a huge failure, but I am also almost certain that it is going to be very expensive and therefore contribute to increase your national debt a lot. Simply put. Your country cannot even afford this stupid idea.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 10:03:48 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2017, 03:38:23 am »

The problem there is that the Taliban has an actual army and holds territory. Good luck setting those up there.
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Zanthius
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2017, 07:58:25 am »

The problem there is that the Taliban has an actual army and holds territory. Good luck setting those up there.

So what? You could just use your army to protect the educational facilities, instead of to "kill terrorists".

And I didn't say anything about which military technology I would prefer to have in those guard towards of the educational facilities, but telescope-cameras connected to a machine learning algorithm, sounds like a good idea for detecting enemies approaching the educational facilities. Something like this in the top of each guard tower:



Once you have figured out where they are, you can attack them like this with a drone:



You can also use tranquilizer guns, and they can also be attached to drones.



The Taliban are a superstitious people. When they wake up without their clothes and just rainbow colored underwear, they will believe you have done something much more horrible to them. They will soon become much more scared of this than of dying. One of the problems with Muslim extremists is that they aren't particular scared of dying. But if you dress them in rainbow colored underwear, they will think you have destroyed their chance of going to heaven. They will think you have made them participate in unforgivable sinful behavior while they were unconscious. They are also likely to be shunned by their Taliban community.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 08:35:07 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2017, 08:31:34 pm »

I am tired of the 1-dimensional interpretation of politics, so I made a 6-dimensional diagram:



People often speak about immigration regulations as right-wing. I think this is wrong, since it is a type of regulations imposed by the government. All such regulations I have put in the left-wing domain.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 08:33:57 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Star Control: Connecting the dots
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2017, 08:34:38 pm »

Do you know about Principal Component Analysis?
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