The Ur-Quan Masters Home Page Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 21, 2018, 01:22:26 am
Home Help Search Login Register
News: UQM development migrated from Subversion to Git

+  The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum
|-+  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release
| |-+  Starbase Café (Moderators: Michael Martin, fossil, Lukipela)
| | |-+  A new theory of pain
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] Print
Author Topic: A new theory of pain  (Read 552 times)
Zanthius
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 709



View Profile
Re: A new theory of pain
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2018, 07:45:04 pm »

I don't know a lot about perceptual control theory, but I think in general it is very wrong to assume that the human brain is a completely free machine learning algorithm.

Well, yes. Good thing that's not what was asserted...

I was thinking specifically about this:

Quote
And I start to get very skeptical when Powers moves to higher-tier control systems. His sixth tier is “relationships”, seventh is “programs”, eighth is “principles”, and ninth is “systems”. Although these tiers receive just as many pages as the earlier ones, they start sounding very abstract and they correlate a lot less well with anatomy. I understand the urge to postulate them – if you’ve already decided that the fundamental unit of the brain is the control system, why not try to explain things with control systems all the way up? – but it becomes kind of a stretch. It’s easy to see what it means to control the distance between me and the car in front of me; it’s harder to see what it means to control for “communism” or “honesty” or things like that.

In order for it to be possible for a learned ideology like communism to have ultimate control of a human body, it seems like the brain would need to be a more or less free machine learning algorithm. Since the human brain isn't a completely free machine learning algorithm, it seems highly unlikely that it is possible for a learned ideology like communism to be able to have ultimate control of a human body.

The brain is probably organized more or less like Powers assume, but learned ideologies can only have very limited control of a human being.  It might seem like a Muslim suicide bomber is completely controlled by Islam, since it seems like he is willing to die for his ideology. However, he is probably killing himself mostly because of social pressure, rather than because of Islam. Social pressure seems to be a much more powerful motivator than ideologies.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 08:06:10 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Death 999
Global Moderator
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3687


We did. You did. Yes we can. No.


View Profile
Re: A new theory of pain
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2018, 02:41:05 pm »

I think that's a bit of a stretch, especially since the point of the quote is that the model appears to break down at that point.
Logged
Zanthius
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 709



View Profile
Re: A new theory of pain
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2018, 05:41:31 pm »

I think that's a bit of a stretch, especially since the point of the quote is that the model appears to break down at that point.

My skepticism was to higher levels of Perceptual Control Theory, not the reviewer (Scott Alexander). Anyhow, I probably should read Behavior: The Control Of Perception myself. It seems like a very interesting book.

This diagram does indeed have many similarities to what I proposed:

« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 08:37:33 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!