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News: Paul Reiche and Fred Ford want to continue the story they started when they created Star Control II — The Ur-Quan Masters. «Happy days and jubilation!» «But wait!» «There is something wrong here... something which makes my sheath retract and my talons ooze.» «Please, Captain, we need your help!»

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Poll
Question: Do we still need religions
Yes   -1 (20%)
No   -4 (80%)
Total Voters: 5

Author Topic: Political Miscellany  (Read 2637 times)
Zanthius
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Moral hierarchy for societies
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2018, 12:20:29 pm »



I have now added it to my webpage: https://www.archania.org/governance/#A_standardized_system_for_educating_third_world_countries

So. what color does your society have?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 10:36:19 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2018, 10:33:04 am »

This book might be of interest to people that think we need religion to behave morally:


The Neuroscience of Fair Play: Why We (Usually) Follow the Golden Rule

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We remember the admonition of our mothers: “Treat others as you want them to treat you.” But what if being nice was something we were inclined by nature to do anyway?  Renowned neuroscientist Donald Pfaff upends our entire understanding of ethics and social contracts with an intriguing proposition: the Golden Rule is hardwired into the human brain.

Pfaff, the researcher who first discovered the connections between specific brain circuits and certain behaviors, contends that the basic ethics governing our everyday lives can be traced directly to brain circuitry. Writing with popular science journalist Sandra J. Ackerman, he explains in this clear and concise account how specific brain signals induce us to consider our actions as if they were directed at ourselves—and subsequently lead us to treat others as we wish to be treated. Brain hormones are a part of this complicated process, and The Neuroscience of Fair Play discusses how brain hormones can catalyze behaviors with moral implications in such areas as self-sacrifice, parental love, friendship, and violent aggression.  

Drawing on his own research and other recent studies in brain science, Pfaff offers a thought-provoking hypothesis for why certain ethical codes and ideas have remained constant across human societies and cultures throughout the world and over the centuries of history. An unprecedented and provocative investigation, The Neuroscience of Fair Play offers a new perspective on the increasingly important intersection of neuroscience and ethics.

https://www.amazon.com/Neuroscience-Fair-Play-Usually-Follow/dp/1932594272
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Zanthius
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Popularity
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2018, 06:38:23 pm »

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Zanthius
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Social grounding and ideological identities
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2018, 01:56:05 pm »



https://www.archania.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 10:04:59 am by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Social grounding and ideological identities
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2018, 10:11:33 am »

So... if Democrats in the US want to change the mindset of Republicans, it might actually be much smarter to become friends with them, rather than to argue with them.

Similarly, if Europeans want to change the mindset of Muslims, it might actually be much smarter to become friends with them, rather than to argue with them.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 11:32:02 am by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 05:08:03 pm »

I am thinking:

When a child grows up in a scientifically literate and culturally intelligent society, it might be difficult to fool the people around you. So, there is a cultural incentive to be honest. If however a child grows up in a superstitious and oblivious society, it might be easier to fool the people around you. So there might be a bigger incentive for dishonesty.

So... instead of indoctrinating religious morality, maybe it is better to make a culture more observant?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 05:10:30 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Deus Siddis
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2018, 04:59:19 pm »

When a child grows up in a scientifically literate and culturally intelligent society,

This seems to assume that culture causes intelligence. But what if innate intelligence or some other factor more so causes cultural sophistication rather than vice versa?

As far as I can tell, IQ scores appear  to be highly regionalized, with the more polar regions scoring higher and more equatorial regions scoring lower in general. Can religious dogma and superstitions not stand the cold for some reason? Or is there some other factor at work here to explain this pattern?
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Death 999
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2018, 07:12:10 pm »

Environmental exposure to toxins e.g. lead? Disease transmission from various sources (think Zika but less dramatic)?
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Zanthius
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Broken American Narrative
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2018, 08:52:06 pm »

I have been listening to lots of videos from the intellectual dark web lately, and after listening to this video, with Bret and Eric Weinstein, I am now almost completely sure that the American Narrative is broken.



Sure, we have lots of these problems also in western Europe, but the American Narrative seems to be much more broken.
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2018, 02:44:19 am »

I am not sure how latitude would affect exposure to toxins.

But tropical infectious diseases could be the culprit. Still, if that turns out to be the case, would it not make more sense to treat the underlying physical illnesses, rather than argue philosophy with people suffering some degree of brain damage from said illnesses?
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2018, 02:57:44 am »

Your message seems a bit unclear to me, are you saying those perceptions about various aspects of American society are false or that they are true and so American society itself is broken in all these ways?

Sure, we have lots of these problems also in western Europe, but the American Narrative seems to be much more broken.

But why compare specifically western Europe to the entirety of America? Would it not be more fair to compare western Europe with only the west coast of America? Or include eastern Europe in the comparison with America (and Canada too)?
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Zanthius
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2018, 09:40:23 am »

Your message seems a bit unclear to me, are you saying those perceptions about various aspects of American society are false or that they are true and so American society itself is broken in all these ways?

In order for a society to be functional, most of the people living in the society need to believe in more or less the same narrative. However, societies might believe in dysfunctional ideologies for quite a while, before people start to lose faith in the narrative. Marxism–Leninism as an ideology might for example have been dysfunctional since the very beginning of the Soviet Union in 1922, but people didn't start to lose faith in the communistic narrative before the 60s and 70s, and then the Soviet Union collapsed.

I think it is easy to understand how dysfunctional ideologies can work for a while, if you think about it as acquiring more and more debt. Sure, if I take a gigantic loan, I can live quite comfortably for a while, but there comes a day when I need to pay back. Most unstable trajectories are like that. You make it work right now, by pushing the problem into the future. The problem is that it often becomes even more difficult to solve the problem in the future.
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #42 on: May 09, 2018, 04:03:29 pm »

If the toxin is absorbed through the pores, or mainly through bare skin, places people wear less or spend more time sweating could have more of it.

And that wasn't trying to address that other point at that time.
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #43 on: May 09, 2018, 06:03:11 pm »

That is an interesting explanation.

I would expect China to be more adversely affected by it though, they are actually a fairly warm country by and large, especially considering the regions where the majority of its population resides. It is a heavily industrialized developing country as well, so plenty of access to and application of hazardous materials and probably not the stiffest environmental laws.
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2018, 07:07:30 pm »

Your message seems a bit unclear to me, are you saying those perceptions about various aspects of American society are false or that they are true and so American society itself is broken in all these ways?

In order for a society to be functional, most of the people living in the society need to believe in more or less the same narrative. However, societies might believe in dysfunctional ideologies for quite a while, before people start to lose faith in the narrative. Marxism–Leninism as an ideology might for example have been dysfunctional since the very beginning of the Soviet Union in 1922, but people didn't start to lose faith in the communistic narrative before the 60s and 70s, and then the Soviet Union collapsed.

I think it is easy to understand how dysfunctional ideologies can work for a while, if you think about it as acquiring more and more debt. Sure, if I take a gigantic loan, I can live quite comfortably for a while, but there comes a day when I need to pay back. Most unstable trajectories are like that. You make it work right now, by pushing the problem into the future. The problem is that it often becomes even more difficult to solve the problem in the future.

I mostly agree.

What I meant though is I do not understand what your graphic is saying. On one hand it could be interpreted to mean that the American system is broken in the ways it lists (which I would tend to agree with, personally).

But on the other it could be interpreted to mean that those statements are being considered falsehoods. In other words, those statements about what is wrong with that country are part of a "broken narrative" and its true problems are disguised by this narrative.
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