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News: Paul Reiche and Fred Ford want to continue the story they started when they created Star Control II — The Ur-Quan Masters. «Happy days and jubilation!» «But wait!» «There is something wrong here... something which makes my sheath retract and my talons ooze.» «Please, Captain, we need your help!»

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Poll
Question: Do we still need religions
Yes   -1 (20%)
No   -4 (80%)
Total Voters: 5

Author Topic: Political Miscellany  (Read 2636 times)
Zanthius
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2018, 09:52:26 pm »

Here is another video by Bret Weinstein. This guy seems to be really wise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpb-COhbMIM
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Zanthius
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2018, 06:08:11 pm »

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If we are honest — and scientists have to be — we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality. The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination. It is quite understandable why primitive people, who were so much more exposed to the overpowering forces of nature than we are today, should have personified these forces in fear and trembling. But nowadays, when we understand so many natural processes, we have no need for such solutions. I can't for the life of me see how the postulate of an Almighty God helps us in any way. What I do see is that this assumption leads to such unproductive questions as why God allows so much misery and injustice, the exploitation of the poor by the rich and all the other horrors He might have prevented. If religion is still being taught, it is by no means because its ideas still convince us, but simply because some of us want to keep the lower classes quiet. Quiet people are much easier to govern than clamorous and dissatisfied ones. They are also much easier to exploit. Religion is a kind of opium that allows a nation to lull itself into wishful dreams and so forget the injustices that are being perpetrated against the people. Hence the close alliance between those two great political forces, the State and the Church. Both need the illusion that a kindly God rewards — in heaven if not on earth — all those who have not risen up against injustice, who have done their duty quietly and uncomplainingly. That is precisely why the honest assertion that God is a mere product of the human imagination is branded as the worst of all mortal sins.

quote by the famous physicist Paul Dirac
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 06:17:12 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2018, 01:21:53 am »

Have you guys seen this documantary?



https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8135494/
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Zanthius
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2018, 11:49:28 am »

You should be very afraid of almost all superintelligences, because designing goals that are compatible with the fulfillment of human values is very very hard.

What you should be afraid of Death 999, are machine learning algorithms developed by malevolent dictatorships:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e77022UWFu4

We might have a chance to develop a benevolent educational AI. If we don't do this, it seems more likely that malevolent dictators will win the battle for your future.

Also, if we don't develop an open source system where everybody has their own secure online account with their personal data, that information is rather going to be stored by dictatorships:



In Russia and China, there is not going to be a: "Your secure online account". There, Putin and Xi Jinping are going to have access to all your personal data, and they are going to use that data to determine your usefulness. They can also use that data to manipulate you in numerous ways.

You know, if Russia and China are developing some kind of new superweapon, you might be interested in doing the same, even if you think it is a bad idea, just to prevent them from gaining complete control. I don't think you would like it much if only Russia and China had nukes, would you?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 01:21:23 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2018, 01:54:46 pm »

That's also a concern, but why not worry about both?
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2018, 06:27:32 pm »

That's also a concern, but why not worry about both?

To worry is irrational. To do something to prevent a problem is rational. More advanced AI will come. Nobody can stop the future, but if we work hard we might be able to prevent ourselves from ending up in a global Chinese or Russian digital dictatorship, where they own all our personal data.

The US already seems to be on its way to become a Russian satellite state. If that happens, Putin will get complete control of all your personal data, and use it to determine your usefulness.

Have you listened to Sam Harris's podcast with Masha Gessen? https://samharris.org/podcasts/131-dictators-immigration-metoo-imponderables/
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 07:01:55 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2018, 06:07:36 pm »

Here is another video by Bret Weinstein. This guy seems to be really wise.

He goes into some more detail about his concepts in this video.  What I found most interesting is his idea that friendly inter-group interaction depends on humans being inside an environment of overabundance.  Under those circumstances we as organisms engage in trying to expand our numbers or control over resources as quickly as possible, without conflict, conceivably because conflict would slow down the expansionism or harvesting operations with its high costs and risks.  But once surplus resources are spent or taken over, and further resource acquisition or expansion becomes a zero sum game, you have inter-group conflict.  It is the same wisdom taught to us by 4X games, odd as it might sound.

Have you guys seen this documantary?
[...]
Nobody can stop the future, but if we work hard we might be able to prevent ourselves from ending up in a global Chinese or Russian digital dictatorship, where they own all our personal data.

Regarding the documentary's premise, I think it is important to keep in mind that superpowers are... powerful.  It is only when one is fundamentally weak that it can be all that interfered with by another.  The Chinese were seriously beaten by the Japanese when the Soviets liberated them and then helped install Mao.  The Soviet system was geriatric and broken when the USA moved in and supported Yeltsin to promote its messy break up.  Just the same, the USA would have to be already in a state of near total collapse for another superpower to mess with its internal mechanisms in a serious and successful way.  The USA is in a state of decline, but you are way early to the party (that is, by years or decades) with these particular concerns.

I do not think your general fear is irrational though, just slightly misplaced.  If your own country is a small Western European state with a weak military, then the power politics of "the big three" is a real concern for you,  And I cannot say you should hope to rely on undemocratic and tenuous systems like NATO and the EU for any longer.  The only thing you can really do is harden your own national military into something actually reasonable by modern standards and cooperate with local states on a state-to-state basis.  Maybe the Eurofighter project is a good example of strength through this kind of flat hierarchy cooperation.

Learn from the legacy of the Gauls, Britons, Iberians! They relied too long on Pax Romana to safeguard their lands and peoples. But when Roman power collapsed, they were all immediately overrun by invaders. Their languages, cultures and societies erased from the world.
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2018, 09:18:43 pm »

The only thing you can really do is harden your own national military into something reasonable by modern standards and cooperate with local states on a state-to-state basis.  Maybe the Eurofighter project is a good example of strength through this kind of flat hierarchy cooperation.

I don't necessarily think a conventional military will be capable of protecting democracies:





« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 09:22:38 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2018, 01:42:02 am »

I don't necessarily think a conventional military will be capable of protecting democracies:

Well if you believe that the USA has become a battle thrall of the Russian Federation or has been cognitively disabled by it, that means there is a total breakdown in the balance of hard power.  In that case your first priority had better be to establish a truly fearsome deterrent to military invasion (or worse) by either or both superpowers.

We know that Russia already has had a lot of success with such algorithms in Europe and in the U.S.

We do?
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2018, 08:50:22 am »

In that case your first priority had better be to establish a truly fearsome deterrent to military invasion (or worse) by either or both superpowers.

But is it necessarily such a good idea to have a truly fearsome deterrent if you cannot necessarily trust your commander-in-chief? If Russia had spent as much resources on corrupting small western European democracies as they have been spending on corrupting the U.S. I think western Europe would be in a much worse condition than the U.S. The  main reason why many western European democracies haven't necessarily become as corrupted yet, is probably because Russia has been busy with corrupting the U.S., and to a lesser extent the U.K. Their archenemies from the the cold war. Once Russia is finished with the U.S. and the U.K., they will turn their algorithms to corrupt smaller western European democracies.  
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Re: Broken American Narrative
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2018, 03:47:53 pm »

But is it necessarily such a good idea to have a truly fearsome deterrent if you cannot necessarily trust your commander-in-chief?

If this situation is as you describe then you already have no choice in the matter.  Putting together a physical deterrent effective enough to hold back the two military-technological super powers of the USA and RF combined will take time you mostly do not have.  And without it there is absolutely zero reason to believe you will not become the next Iraq or 1930's France.  You should look up the estimated scale of nuclear arsenals possessed by the various nations of the world and specifically compare what is owned by the USA and RF to what is under the control of the rest of the world.  And then look up estimates of conventional military power and compare them in a similar manner, too.

Their archenemies from the the cold war. Once Russia is finished with the U.S. and the U.K., they will turn their algorithms to corrupt smaller western European democracies. 

When you lose the UK then that leaves France as your only nuclear deterrent in the region.

If Russia had spent as much resources on corrupting small western European democracies as they have been spending on corrupting the U.S. I think western Europe would be in a much worse condition than the U.S. The  main reason why many western European democracies haven't necessarily become as corrupted yet, is probably because Russia has been busy with corrupting the U.S.

You have one critical advantage as a small nation in this context.  You do not have the same regional distance between people or between urban and rural environments (environments which tend to generate radically different world views in their inhabitants).  And that is at least partially what this method of very grassroots corruption of democracies you describe relies on.  The more you go out into meatspace and interact face to face with people of your own nation that are from as different a political viewpoint as can be found, the less their Russian dominated social media / smartphone will be able vilify you and others politically like you.

But even then, if your nation resists corruption but does not develop and assemble (at least) fission warheads in the dozens with hard-to-counter delivery mechanisms able to reach at least as far as Moskow, then ultimately your best and only option is to surrender anyway, no?
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Re: Youtube videos about world governance
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2018, 06:29:14 pm »

Here is Professor Harari talking about the problems with nationalism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x3zaIYrHTs

Based upon what Professor Harari has said about the emergence of killer robots, I have changed in the abstract to my article about a progressive world democracy:

Quote
We also have sufficiently advanced technology today to manufacture fully automatized killer robots. If fully automatized killer robots are banned just in western democracies, dictatorships might get a significant military advantage. With a new world government, we can order all the superpowers to get rid of their nuclear weapons and ban the production of fully automatized killer robots everywhere.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 11:03:33 am by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Youtube videos about world governance
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2018, 12:39:23 am »

I think Yuval Noah Harari as the alpha male and Bret Weinstein as the sage would be a great pair as leaders for a world government. Bret Weinstein is super wise and has a very good understanding of righteous governance. Yuval Noah Harari has a very large perspective of history and of what might happen in the future. I am not sure who should be the caregiver.



« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 12:47:59 am by Zanthius » Logged
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