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Author Topic: Money as the relationship between labor and consumer goods.  (Read 374 times)
Zanthius
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Money as the relationship between labor and consumer goods.
« on: November 11, 2017, 03:03:59 am »

« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 09:05:06 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Sargon
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Re: Global economic growth
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2017, 05:46:22 am »

Human labor can produce valuable products.
IP and software is also a product, so it's not true that we are only talking about physical products.
For instance creating a game is creating more products.
So Scalar A is not constant.
Because according to the decisions you make or your management make, you can make more or less valuable products(such as software).

Also countries can have certain taxes for their citizens, but give state aid to certain corporates.
I think 5% of the population in Israel(Hi Tech engineers) is responsbile for 30% of the GDP(The GDP from Hi Tech in Israel)..
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 05:48:46 am by Sargon » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Global economic growth
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 09:54:32 am »

Human labor can produce valuable products.
IP and software is also a product, so it's not true that we are only talking about physical products.
For instance creating a game is creating more products.
So Scalar A is not constant.

All of those things are in Vector B (goods and mechanical services), so the are scaled by Scalar B.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 10:27:38 am by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Global economic growth
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 02:33:28 pm »

« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 05:10:38 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Sargon
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Re: Global economic growth
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2017, 05:46:17 pm »

What are you saying? There is no growth?
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Zanthius
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Re: Global economic growth
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2017, 06:17:30 pm »

What are you saying? There is no growth?

Any economic growth must be related to the reduction of Scalar B.

We might also consider increasing the diversity of Vector B as a different kind of growth. Increasing the diversity of Vector B will give us more options regarding what we can buy, but not make it cheaper for us to buy things. Increasing the diversity of Vector A will in a similar way give us more options regarding what we can study to become.

I have now made this into a somewhat more congruent article: http://www.archania.org/a_vector_interpretation_of_economic_growth.html
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 04:53:43 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Sargon
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Re: Global economic growth
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 09:53:47 am »

Growth doesn't have to be acceleration? You say like growth only happen when there is acceleration. It's not true.
For instance if the speed of producing bread is higher than the speed the bread is consumed, then there is going to be more and more surplus of bread, even if nothing change in the efficiency of producing bread.
That's exactly trickle down.
You seem only to care about the relative wealth and not the absolute wealth.
Relative wealth can remain constant or even become worse for the common people, but absolute wealth becomes better.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 09:57:30 am by Sargon » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Global economic growth
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 01:22:03 pm »

For instance if the speed of producing bread is higher than the speed the bread is consumed, then there is going to be more and more surplus of bread, even if nothing change in the efficiency of producing bread.

This is not true for bread and other types of food, since it decays.  It is however true for books, movies, and other types of information. That can however be considered as growing the diversity of Vector B, like I have said before.

I think lots of the confusion with modern economics, comes from not seeing the distinction between "increasing the diversity of Vector B" and "reducing Scalar B". Increasing the diversity of Vector B doesn't make us more wealthy, in the sense that we can afford to buy more goods. It gives us more options.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 01:56:11 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Global economic growth
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 02:58:45 pm »

Growth is whenever the production is faster than the consumption. Distribution of products is not a simple average. Constant labour can bring growth if the production is faster than the consumption.
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Zanthius
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Re: Global economic growth
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 03:04:10 pm »

Growth is whenever the production is faster than the consumption.

Have you ever heard about bacteria and fungi? You know that there are bacterial and fungal spores in most of the food you are consuming? You know that there are bacterial and fungal spores in most of the air you are inhaling? These microorganisms can decompose lots of stuff, but they are especially good at decomposing food. So, no, there will not necessarily be any growth if you produce food faster than you are consuming it. Just lots of rotten food with bacterial and fungal colonies.





« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 03:22:43 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: A vector interpretation of economic growth
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 09:56:07 pm »

I gave food just as one example, products can be all sort of things. Not just food.
Think that the rate of consumption doesn't need to be the same as the rate of production.
Also there are ways to preserve certain kinds of food.
For instance some companies preserve frozen oranges to produce orange juice from them the whole year. The fact that they produce more oranges than people consume make it possible for them.
At some point they will have more oranges than they could use.
But the idea is that a constant non changing production doesn't have to be in perfect balance with consumption. And when the balance of the production/consumption is positive, you get surplus you can use later on, or you can increase consumption once you accumulated more production.
That's why growth could just mean... we produce more than we use at this moment.
So the pie could change in size even when the vectors don't change, because the rate of production is faster than the rate of consumption.
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Zanthius
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Re: A vector interpretation of economic growth
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 10:49:36 pm »

For instance some companies preserve frozen oranges to produce orange juice from them the whole year. The fact that they produce more oranges than people consume make it possible for them.
At some point they will have more oranges than they could use.

That is not growth, that is a buffer. Buffers require storage space, and if you are going to store food you might require refrigeration. Storage and refrigeration cost money, so buffers usually have a negative impact on the economy.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 10:53:50 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: A vector interpretation of economic growth
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 11:46:19 pm »

It is growth.
I am not talking only about food.
If you have a buffer you can control the amount of work you can do, you can utilize your work for other things.
Or you can work less because you have a buffer.
The point is... growth is when output is bigger than consumption.
When the world's output is bigger than current world's consumption you can either work less or increase the current consumption.

Let's think about physics.
The gap between production y = 2*a*x and consumption y = a*x will keep increase eventhough the vectors are both linear(constant velocity)
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Zanthius
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Re: A vector interpretation of economic growth
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2017, 11:57:01 pm »

Let's think about physics.
The gap between production y = 2*a*x and consumption y = a*x will keep increase eventhough the vectors are both linear(constant velocity)

That would work in an abstract mathematical world, where nothing decayed, and we could store infinite amounts things for free. We are not living in such a world.

The equation you have made for consumption doesn't include everything that is removed, since lots of things decay. You would also need to have another equation for the extra costs related to storage.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 12:04:24 am by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: A vector interpretation of economic growth
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 12:08:03 am »

Of course it's an approximation, but it's accurate until a degree.
The sun will also swallow the earth one day and I didn't include that in the equation as well.
It's the order of the magnitude that matters.
There are many factors I didn't include, such as changing population and many others.
The point is growth is when your production is bigger than your consumption.
The input and output, kind of like a diet.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 12:09:37 am by Sargon » Logged
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