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| | |-+  Do we still need religions?
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Question: Do we still need religions
Yes   -1 (20%)
No   -4 (80%)
Total Voters: 5

Author Topic: Do we still need religions?  (Read 339 times)
Zanthius
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Do we still need religions?
« on: February 08, 2018, 05:31:57 pm »

Social cohesion is needed to keep a society together. Religious morality has traditionally been involved in creating a common framework for righteousness and misbehavior, while Aristotelian logic and physics have been involved in creating a common framework for truth and falsehood. Even though modern science to a large degree has evolved from Aristotelian physics, it is not necessarily a good idea to teach Aristotelian physics today, since modern science gives a much more accurate description of reality. Similarly, our modern understanding of human rights has to a large degree evolved from religious morality, but seems to give a much more elaborate foundation for morality; especially in regard to equal rights for women, homosexuals, and all ethnicities.



http://www.archania.org/governance/
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 08:41:43 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2018, 01:27:53 pm »

you live in a rich country with education and no hunger and no sufficient housing and no poverty and no opression. as such you don't  need religion.
many people live in countries where these things are not available. they turn to religion to get them through their daily lives.
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Zanthius
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2018, 02:55:53 pm »

you live in a rich country with education and no hunger and no sufficient housing and no poverty and no opression. as such you don't  need religion.
many people live in countries where these things are not available. they turn to religion to get them through their daily lives.

Okay, but many of those countries are heavily involved in discrimination against women, homosexuals, and other ethnicities. Often because of religious beliefs.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 11:48:15 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Krulle
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2018, 09:17:08 pm »

often because of perceived religious believes....

Imagine our saviour praying peace, and "turning the other cheek", and forgiveness;
and then everyone using swords to spread the religious message.....

(I know that the meaninf behind "turning the other cheek" is originally not to avoid fights, wars, confrontation, but equality.)
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Zanthius
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2018, 10:33:04 am »

This book might be of interest to people that think we need religion to behave morally:


The Neuroscience of Fair Play: Why We (Usually) Follow the Golden Rule

Quote
We remember the admonition of our mothers: “Treat others as you want them to treat you.” But what if being nice was something we were inclined by nature to do anyway?  Renowned neuroscientist Donald Pfaff upends our entire understanding of ethics and social contracts with an intriguing proposition: the Golden Rule is hardwired into the human brain.

Pfaff, the researcher who first discovered the connections between specific brain circuits and certain behaviors, contends that the basic ethics governing our everyday lives can be traced directly to brain circuitry. Writing with popular science journalist Sandra J. Ackerman, he explains in this clear and concise account how specific brain signals induce us to consider our actions as if they were directed at ourselves—and subsequently lead us to treat others as we wish to be treated. Brain hormones are a part of this complicated process, and The Neuroscience of Fair Play discusses how brain hormones can catalyze behaviors with moral implications in such areas as self-sacrifice, parental love, friendship, and violent aggression.  

Drawing on his own research and other recent studies in brain science, Pfaff offers a thought-provoking hypothesis for why certain ethical codes and ideas have remained constant across human societies and cultures throughout the world and over the centuries of history. An unprecedented and provocative investigation, The Neuroscience of Fair Play offers a new perspective on the increasingly important intersection of neuroscience and ethics.

https://www.amazon.com/Neuroscience-Fair-Play-Usually-Follow/dp/1932594272
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Zanthius
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018, 05:08:03 pm »

I am thinking:

When a child grows up in a scientifically literate and culturally intelligent society, it might be difficult to fool the people around you. So, there is a cultural incentive to be honest. If however a child grows up in a superstitious and oblivious society, it might be easier to fool the people around you. So there might be a bigger incentive for dishonesty.

So... instead of indoctrinating religious morality, maybe it is better to make a culture more observant?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 05:10:30 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Deus Siddis
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2018, 04:59:19 pm »

When a child grows up in a scientifically literate and culturally intelligent society,

This seems to assume that culture causes intelligence. But what if innate intelligence or some other factor more so causes cultural sophistication rather than vice versa?

As far as I can tell, IQ scores appear  to be highly regionalized, with the more polar regions scoring higher and more equatorial regions scoring lower in general. Can religious dogma and superstitions not stand the cold for some reason? Or is there some other factor at work here to explain this pattern?
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Death 999
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2018, 07:12:10 pm »

Environmental exposure to toxins e.g. lead? Disease transmission from various sources (think Zika but less dramatic)?
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2018, 02:44:19 am »

I am not sure how latitude would affect exposure to toxins.

But tropical infectious diseases could be the culprit. Still, if that turns out to be the case, would it not make more sense to treat the underlying physical illnesses, rather than argue philosophy with people suffering some degree of brain damage from said illnesses?
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Death 999
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2018, 04:03:29 pm »

If the toxin is absorbed through the pores, or mainly through bare skin, places people wear less or spend more time sweating could have more of it.

And that wasn't trying to address that other point at that time.
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2018, 06:03:11 pm »

That is an interesting explanation.

I would expect China to be more adversely affected by it though, they are actually a fairly warm country by and large, especially considering the regions where the majority of its population resides. It is a heavily industrialized developing country as well, so plenty of access to and application of hazardous materials and probably not the stiffest environmental laws.
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Zanthius
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Re: Do we still need religions?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2018, 06:08:11 pm »

Quote
If we are honest — and scientists have to be — we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality. The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination. It is quite understandable why primitive people, who were so much more exposed to the overpowering forces of nature than we are today, should have personified these forces in fear and trembling. But nowadays, when we understand so many natural processes, we have no need for such solutions. I can't for the life of me see how the postulate of an Almighty God helps us in any way. What I do see is that this assumption leads to such unproductive questions as why God allows so much misery and injustice, the exploitation of the poor by the rich and all the other horrors He might have prevented. If religion is still being taught, it is by no means because its ideas still convince us, but simply because some of us want to keep the lower classes quiet. Quiet people are much easier to govern than clamorous and dissatisfied ones. They are also much easier to exploit. Religion is a kind of opium that allows a nation to lull itself into wishful dreams and so forget the injustices that are being perpetrated against the people. Hence the close alliance between those two great political forces, the State and the Church. Both need the illusion that a kindly God rewards — in heaven if not on earth — all those who have not risen up against injustice, who have done their duty quietly and uncomplainingly. That is precisely why the honest assertion that God is a mere product of the human imagination is branded as the worst of all mortal sins.

quote by the famous physicist Paul Dirac
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 06:17:12 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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