The Ur-Quan Masters Home Page Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 14, 2018, 05:00:13 pm
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Paul Reiche and Fred Ford want to continue the story they started when they created Star Control II — The Ur-Quan Masters. «Happy days and jubilation!» «But wait!» «There is something wrong here... something which makes my sheath retract and my talons ooze.» «Please, Captain, we need your help!»

+  The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum
|-+  The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release
| |-+  General UQM Discussion (Moderator: Death 999)
| | |-+  The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print
Author Topic: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed  (Read 1118 times)
Krulle
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


*Hurghi*! Krulle is *spitting* again!


View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 10:07:25 am »

I still expect the universal translator's output for me to be in a way that is intended for maximum comprehensibility by my Human ears.

If you were traveling in outer space, or really trying to communicate with Chinese people, sure. But, as I have said tons of times, this isn't a simulator, but a game. And in a game, such as this one, the objective is to give the players a maximum sense of "Chinese" when they encounter a Chinese person. A universal translator that maximizes comprehensibility reduces the sense of "Chinese" when talking to a Chinese person. This is boring.
But the exact intention of how technology should work.

But then, I'm always switching off voice overs anyway. Too slow for my liking.
I prefer reading. On my speed.
Logged
Soul Reaver
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 82



View Profile WWW
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2018, 11:40:52 am »

I still expect the universal translator's output for me to be in a way that is intended for maximum comprehensibility by my Human ears.

If you were traveling in outer space, or really trying to communicate with Chinese people, sure. But, as I have said tons of times, this isn't a simulator, but a game. And in a game, such as this one, the objective is to give the players a maximum sense of "Chinese" when they encounter a Chinese person. A universal translator that maximizes comprehensibility reduces the sense of "Chinese" when talking to a Chinese person. This is boring.

I think this might be getting somewhat off-topic, but to add my two cents:

Firstly, the 'universal translator' thing is true, but at the same time is just a convenient artifice.  The aliens you meet have a variety of voices and effects, so obviously they don't all have to sound the same.

However, UQM is a heavily dialogue-driven game, and that dialogue ceases to be effective if it fails to convey emotion (or in some cases, lack thereof) and nuance, which is hard to do if you drown it all with post production sound effects.

While I agree the Mycon could sound different, I don't actually think there's anything wrong with how they sound either.  I do think it's wrong to actively make them sound 'evil'.  They aren't evil at all - no more than a malfunctioning machine can be evil.  They are just carrying out their programming, though it has suffered degradation over the centuries.

That said, it wouldn't be all that hard for you to take the existing audio and apply a bunch of filters to it if you wanted to make it sound more alien.  Or even to re-record the dialogue however you like - the Mycon don't have nearly as much dialogue as some of the other aliens.  I can give you some guidance on how to extract the files if you want to try that and Audacity is a free program you can use to edit the sounds.

By the way, the Chmmr sound a lot like robots/computers from early 50s-60s pulp sci-fi TV shows, which is very fitting and likely intentional since the entire game has a similar aesthetic (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuJtf5-aPuk)
Logged

Go to www.warpstormstudios.com/uqmmod for my dialogue and visual fixes for UQM and UQMHD!
Zanthius
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 902



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 01:00:54 pm »

While I agree the Mycon could sound different, I don't actually think there's anything wrong with how they sound either.  I do think it's wrong to actively make them sound 'evil'.  They aren't evil at all - no more than a malfunctioning machine can be evil.  They are just carrying out their programming, though it has suffered degradation over the centuries.

I guess I didn't explain myself very well. I don't think the Mycon are evil at all. In fact, I think they are much more benevolent than humans. What I meant is rather that they aren't given sufficient depth of voice to convey their power.

I have a dog. Dogs convey power to each other by depth/loudness of growling. Most mammals (including humans) are familiar with this system. If a dog has a very loud and deep growl, it will convey more power to other dogs and mammals, and they will respect the dog more. I want the Mycon to convey power in a similar fashion. The current voice of the Mycon doesn't convey sufficient power.

By the way, the Chmmr sound a lot like robots/computers from early 50s-60s pulp sci-fi TV shows, which is very fitting and likely intentional since the entire game has a similar aesthetic (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuJtf5-aPuk)

Ok. Well, I don't necessarily think it is a good idea to mimic technological inadequacies from the 50s-60s. We have better systems for making robotic voices today. Most of the kids playing UQM today, are not even going to be familiar with robotic voices from the 50s-60s. They are just going to think that the Chmmr doesn't sound very good compared to other robotic voices they have been exposed to in other games/movies/TV shows.


« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 02:14:48 pm by Zanthius » Logged
darklord42
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 196



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 04:14:44 pm »

Its not about us having the technology to do something other then what sounded like in the 60s and 50s. Its that the artwork in the game has that esthetic Therefor the voices were made to match.  They are suppose to smack of *Danger Danger. Will robenson!".  If i have one complaint of the new syreen voice is that im not sure if that directoin was given when making it as it was in the origional 3do one. But thats a nit pick. Watch a bit of the old star treck and you will see what i mean.
Logged
Zanthius
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 902



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2018, 04:26:38 pm »

I think you guys are suffering from the rosy retrospection bias:



I love lots of things from the past, and I really don't think we should dismiss off everything from the past. But why stick to old things that we can make a lot better today?

The Chmmr is supposed to be an alien species, which is supposed to be a fusion between a technological and a crystalline lifeform. It is not supposed to be some idea of an alien species from the 60s. With a more modern and realistic robotic voice, the Chmmr might come more to life. People playing the game might feel more like they are actually communicating with a such a species. I think this is much more important than satisfying some rosy retrospection bias.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 04:47:00 pm by Zanthius » Logged
darklord42
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 196



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2018, 06:01:59 pm »

Unlike most people here, I didnt grow up with star control.   Im 30 years too young to remember the 60s. And i had a mac growing up.   I assure you, i am not affected by such bias.  I just recognize the obvious evidence in front of my face that the 50s/60s esthetic is littered throughout the game.  Obviously the star treck influence is strong.  Look at the artwork in the cutsceene slides compared to a 50s ad. Look at the star control officer uniforms.  Look at the very design of the syreen and their ships.  It even includes the 50s idea of an alien as one of the races.  These arnt accidents.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 06:07:10 pm by darklord42 » Logged
Zanthius
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 902



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2018, 06:07:06 pm »

Unlike most people here, I didnt grow up with star control.   Im 30 years too young to remember the 60s. And i had a mac growing up.   I assure you, i am not affected by such bias.  I just recognize the obvious evidence in front of my face that the 60s esthetic is littered throughout the game.  Obviously the star treck influence is strong.  Look at the artwork in the cutsceene slides compared to a 50s ad.  Look the very design of the syreen and their ships.  It includes 50s idea of an alien as one of the races.  These arnt accidents.

Sure. Everything is influenced from other things in the past. But that doesn't necessarily mean that our main objective should be to make it like that. Rather, we have inherent difficulties with coming up with new and original stuff, so we are prone to base our structures on previous structures. This does however not necessarily mean that it should be a goal in itself.
Logged
darklord42
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 196



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2018, 06:08:23 pm »

If you are going to modify a work of art.  You better at least match the intention... Or at least understand it
Logged
Zanthius
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 902



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2018, 06:09:29 pm »

If you are going to modify a work of art.  You better at least match the intention...

I don't necessarily agree. I think maybe you rather should focus upon optimizing the experience.
Logged
darklord42
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 196



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2018, 06:13:04 pm »

How can you optimize an experiance if you have no idea what the experience should be.  It would be like that woman who thought she could restore the jesus picture and failed
Logged
Zanthius
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 902



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 06:15:17 pm »

How can you optimize an experiance if you have no idea what the experience should be.  It would be like that woman who thought she could restore the jesus picture and failed

Well, you might for example make an educated guess regarding what a hybrid crystalline/technological lifeform would sound like. It certainly wouldn't sound a lot like a humanoid.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 06:48:04 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 902



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 07:46:53 pm »

I wasn't able to make a Chmmr voice I liked yet, but I like this Mycon voice somewhat better, although I think it can be made even better:

https://clyp.it/s1qfqds3
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 07:55:17 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Serosis
Enlightened
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1270



View Profile WWW
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2018, 08:01:49 pm »

That would be neat for a serious toned Ur-Quan Masters reboot.
Logged

The artist formerly known as Kohr-Ah Death.

Get your MegaMod HERE
darklord42
*Many bubbles*
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 196



View Profile
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2018, 08:53:40 pm »


Well, you might for example make an educated guess regarding what a hybrid crystalline/technological lifeform would sound like. It certainly wouldn't sound a lot like a humanoid.

I think you miss the point. Realisim was never a goal of SC2.  So why should things suddenly be real?  Real is not the same as "an optimised experiance" An optimised experience is one that understnds the origional intent and makes it the best it can be.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 08:56:26 pm by darklord42 » Logged
Soul Reaver
Frungy champion
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 82



View Profile WWW
Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2018, 10:19:25 pm »

I'm really sad that the voice work for Star Control 2 made Zanthius so distressed that he had to derail this thread with a rant about how he wants the alien characters to have a barely intelligible scary robot voice in this humorous pulp sci-fi game.

What does everyone else think?  Are the voices in my mod so terrible that you'd rather recommend to others to play it with the original versions despite the questline holes and missing dialogue, or just voiceless?  Have I really wasted my time?
Logged

Go to www.warpstormstudios.com/uqmmod for my dialogue and visual fixes for UQM and UQMHD!
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!