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| | |-+  The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
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Author Topic: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed  (Read 956 times)
Serosis
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2018, 10:31:34 pm »

Nah, Zanthius just wants a dark & gritty UQM reboot.
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Zanthius
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2018, 10:44:35 pm »

What does everyone else think?  Are the voices in my mod so terrible that you'd rather recommend to others to play it with the original versions despite the questline holes and missing dialogue, or just voiceless?  Have I really wasted my time?

Sorry for hijacking your thread. I think it is great that your are fixing questline holes and missing dialogue. I just felt like commenting on these things, since this was a thread about voices, and since the Chmmr and Mycon voices have annoyed me for a very long time.

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darklord42
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2018, 02:30:06 am »

Have I really wasted my time?

Absolutely not.  I wouldn't play the game without your hard work. As you say, the game is unplayable without it. Smiley
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CelticMinstrel
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2018, 03:28:15 am »

Wow, two whole pages since I last posted in this thread...

Regarding the Keel Verezy, no other aliens mention them so I'll give myself the artistic license to pronounce it how I like. Tongue
But they mention them several times. I think it was consistently pronounced as five syllables?
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Soul Reaver
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2018, 03:44:43 am »

Wow, two whole pages since I last posted in this thread...

Regarding the Keel Verezy, no other aliens mention them so I'll give myself the artistic license to pronounce it how I like. Tongue
But they mention them several times. I think it was consistently pronounced as five syllables?

Yes, it's internally consistent in the old Melnorme dialogue.
But while it's different in the new dialogue, the new dialogue completely replaces the old, and is also internally consistent.

I'd have had to do it differently if other aliens mentioned them too, but luckily they don't.
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Zanthius
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2018, 02:42:54 pm »

Nah, Zanthius just wants a dark & gritty UQM reboot.

I don't necessarily just want to make the voices darker. It is more about that when I am talking to an alien in UQM, I want to get the feeling that I am actually talking to that alien. With several of the current voices I do not get this feeling. Especially with the Mycon, Kohr-Ah, Chmmr, and Orz.

I played SC2 many times before the voices came, and I was very disappointed when the voices came, since many of them didn't feel like they belonged to the aliens.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 02:49:47 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Krulle
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2018, 02:55:32 pm »

The Chmmr are benevolent. Why a dark voice there? *
The Mycon are nuts, as their programming limits have failed.
The Orz are just that. Orz. Nothing sinister about them. They're like a child not comprehending the limits of a new toy.
The Kohr-Ah are only sinister, because you're standing on the wrong side of the communication screen. They are very factual, and patiently explain to you why they cannot allow any other sentient species to exist besides Ur-Quan. There is nothing sinister about their goal, for them. It's purely logical to decide this way. An extreme decision, but they would likely even agree if you confronted them that you find the decision extreme. Alas you could never argue with them, that variety is actually the best defense, because then the chances of finding naturally immune beings which can help you is much higher than in a monoculture galaxy. (I doubt that if they would find another Dnyarri planet, that they'd be better prepared and would succeed in fighting off the controlling beasts.)


(we can discuss that as much as you want, and I know this is provocative, but that was always how I felt about them, and why I find sinister voices would just lead to biases which may not be present. The game was so alluring for me because the point of the other side could be made, and I could see how they can see themselves as doing the right, not a sinister, thing.)


(*actually, I always found the Chmmr character to be the most depth-lacking character in SCII. They're new, I know, but the only interest they show is defeating the Sa-Matra. There's NOTHING else about them.)
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Zanthius
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2018, 03:23:18 pm »

The Chmmr are benevolent. Why a dark voice there? *

I didn't say to make the Chmmr darker. I said to make it more robotic/crystalline.

The Mycon are nuts, as their programming limits have failed.

I disagree. Humans just aren't clever enough to understand them, since they are not part of Juffo-Wup:

Quote
Your simple sexual process produces random mosaics of genetic instructions
yet with the simplicity of breath, I modify my own patterns
You humans improve a tool and double your capabilities
We Mycon improve ourselves and increase a thousand-fold.


The Kohr-Ah are only sinister, because you're standing on the wrong side of the communication screen. They are very factual, and patiently explain to you why they cannot allow any other sentient species to exist besides Ur-Quan. There is nothing sinister about their goal, for them. It's purely logical to decide this way.

Well, well....

Quote
The Ur-Quan originally resembled externally a brown, 10-meter-long and 2-meter-thick variation of the predatory caterpillars native to Earth's Hawaiian Islands.

Unlike many sentient species, the Ur-Quan were not social animals; they were, instead, solitary hunters, with all of their very limited repertoire of social instincts relegated to the field of sex and reproduction. Ur-Quan individuals were instinctively fiercely territorial against each other and against most other species, which they either hunted as food or chased off as potential predators or rivals.


Many of the large predators on Earth communicate with dark growling. That is how they communicate their power to other animals. I am not saying that a 10 meter large predator necessarily is evil. Just that it feels natural for such a creature to have a much darker voice.

The Orz are just that. Orz. Nothing sinister about them. They're like a child not comprehending the limits of a new toy.]The Orz are just that. Orz. Nothing sinister about them. They're like a child not comprehending the limits of a new toy.

Well, well... I don't necessarily think they are evil, just very alien. They are after all inter-dimensional creatures. Maybe this voice fits them a little bit better, although I am sure a creative genius would be able to come up with a much cool alien voice:

https://clyp.it/qzmcueho

« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 03:42:59 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2018, 12:27:23 pm »

From the 1998 IRC chat with Toys for Bob (Fwiffo is both Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III here):
<_Stilgar> <Etherea|> Fwiffo: Were the Mycon in your mind simply the insane fungus rewriting the memories of the sentient Deep Children like in SC3? They gave them a stupid religious fanatic look, IHO, which seemed too simple for the potential they had in SC2... what was your idea of the Mycon?
<Fwiffo> The Mycon were biological tools of the Precursors. They had been programmed for terraforming, but when the Precursors vanished, the Mycons were left unattended. Over the following millenia, their programs drifted, forming the worship of Juffo-Wup.


Woodpeckers are also fiercly territorial, and communicate through using drums, often using metallic drums, as their pitch carries further...

there are more examples, but again, transferring Earth standards on aliens will not do.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 12:32:28 pm by Krulle » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2018, 01:48:44 pm »

there are more examples, but again, transferring Earth standards on aliens will not do.

Certainly seems better for the voices to be earth-biased, than to be human-biased, which seems to be the case now.

Also, the depth and amplitude of a voice doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Earth standards. The size of your vocal cords and lungs determine the depth and amplitude of your voice. Larger creatures have larger vocal cords and larger lungs, so they can produce deeper voices at higher amplitudes.  To think that a 10 meter large predator like the Kohr-Ah sounds like a human is not only extremely human-biased, it is also not much in accordance with our knowledge about the physics of vibrating membranes.

I am not saying that my proposal for the Kohr-Ah is perfect, but I do think it is less human-biased: https://clyp.it/ae0n0gms

<Fwiffo> The Mycon were biological tools of the Precursors. They had been programmed for terraforming, but when the Precursors vanished, the Mycons were left unattended. Over the following millenia, their programs drifted, forming the worship of Juffo-Wup.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the Mycon evolved beyond their original programming by the Precursors to rather be more developed now?

For example, the Mycon might not be overly impressed by the voice assigned to them by the Precursors. They seem to like this voice better: https://clyp.it/s1qfqds3
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 02:16:00 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Serosis
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2018, 05:12:58 pm »

there are more examples, but again, transferring Earth standards on aliens will not do.
They seem to like this voice better: https://clyp.it/s1qfqds3

Because screw anyone who doesn't play with subtitles enabled.  Grin

It's definitely an interesting texture but my first thought is, "Does fungus get laryngitis?"

I kid, I kid...

You ever play Mass Effect?
You could add the reverse reverb voice effect of the Hanar to it and clear up the raspiness a tad to make it more intelligible.
That reverse reverb would go great with the Mycon in general.
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2018, 03:22:33 am »

By the way, about the extra logic for the Syreen dialogue, will it also be enabled if no voice packs are installed/enabled? Because, if I understand correctly, all the other missing dialogue was already included if you didn't install the voice packs, so I think it should be the same with this.
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Serosis
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2018, 04:06:33 am »

By the way, about the extra logic for the Syreen dialogue, will it also be enabled if no voice packs are installed/enabled? Because, if I understand correctly, all the other missing dialogue was already included if you didn't install the voice packs, so I think it should be the same with this.

The old PC version logic was not enabled at all.

it was in a

#ifdef NEVER

#endif

Block.

https://sourceforge.net/p/sc2/uqm/ci/master/tree/sc2/src/uqm/comm/syreen/syreenc.c#l794
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2018, 06:36:46 am »

So you enabled it if this voice pack is installed? But couldn't you also enable it if no voice pack is installed? Assuming of course that the missing dialog is in fact present in the core content package.
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Serosis
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Re: The Ur-Quan Masters - questlines finally completely fixed
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2018, 12:20:42 pm »

So you enabled it if this voice pack is installed? But couldn't you also enable it if no voice pack is installed? Assuming of course that the missing dialog is in fact present in the core content package.

I could, yes.

Would have to edit the base content to match but it could be done.
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