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News: Paul Reiche and Fred Ford want to continue the story they started when they created Star Control II — The Ur-Quan Masters. «Happy days and jubilation!» «But wait!» «There is something wrong here... something which makes my sheath retract and my talons ooze.» «Please, Captain, we need your help!»

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Author Topic: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!  (Read 2187 times)
rosepatel
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2018, 07:54:19 pm »

Yeah, I lack an ending text like "any left over or refunded funds (if we win) will be used for GotP".
I'm pretty sure that would incite more people to help funding.

But then, if they'd run a "fund me" campaign for GotP, while the courtcase is running, people would complain about now knowing if the funds would be diverted for the legal battle, or possibly if they loose be seized by Stardock...

I find therefore asking for this to be the correct way.

That was my read of it as well. Frankly, I'd love to see more talk about the plans for GOTP, but kinda silly to do that when the lawsuit might end with massive legal and/or financial hurdles. So I guess this is the best they can do.
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Elestan
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2018, 02:15:05 am »

Yeah, I lack an ending text like "any left over or refunded funds (if we win) will be used for GotP".
I'm pretty sure that would incite more people to help funding.

Maybe, but since there's no realistic chance that the donations will exceed their expenses, it's kind of a moot point, isn't it?
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Shiver
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2018, 03:16:38 am »

Two $1,000 donations just went through. Nice!
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Krulle
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2018, 08:59:26 am »

Well, if they win the case (and honestly, that may be a very big IF), aren't they entitled to be repaid the costs?

They the spent money could go to GotP.
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Death 999
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2018, 03:40:30 pm »

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/attorney-fees-does-losing-side-30337.html

in general, not in the USA, but some states have laws that if a suit is groundless then the one who started it pays for both.
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orzophile
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2018, 03:15:36 am »

Had posted this elsewhere on reddit where it apparently got moderated for unexplained reasons, but I'll put the same offer here --

After having some free time to read the amended complaints and exhibits, I've become very dismayed at what appears to be a wholly cynical ploy  to prevent the creation, much less publication, of a real sequel to SC1/SC2. I don't claim to know why Stardock thinks this was a worthwhile or necessary goal, but their tactics are absolutely infuriating to me from multiple perspectives, not the least of which being that I've been involved in several small business ventures that were deeply personal to some of the people involved and I know what sort of effort it takes to put your long-term business responsibilities on hold for something like that.

Anyway, the short of it is that I'm currently matching any donations to the Frungy Defense Fund between yesterday (july 24th) and this Saturday (july 28th, US Pacific) when I get home from a business trip. After getting some sad troll responses, I'll match up to $1100 in donations, of which approximately $220 have been added already.

I'll think of some clever name so it's obvious the gofundme donation I make on Saturday night will be a contribution match instead of my other anonymous donation from earlier.
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Elestan
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2018, 03:54:55 am »

I'll match up to $1100 in donations, of which approximately $220 have been added already.

That's very generous of you.  What was the gofundme total at the start of your match?
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2018, 04:14:32 am »

From a lot of different sources, looking at copyright/trademark laws, talking with both parties and neutral third parties, looking at these legal videos recently brought up, my own conclusion is that Stardock is almost assuredly in the wrong in their overall claims. They are certainly right that the trademark is theirs, but that should be irrelevant because Fred and Paul openly stated time and time again that they never want nor need the Star Control trademark.

What it seems to me Stardock has done, though likely mainly Brad's orders, is infringe on the copyright of Fred and Paul's creative work by intentionally deriving from their characters within the same industry, and then tried to use that infringement as a means of filing the trademarks for Fred and Paul's races which itself is an additional violation.

These are definitely audacious and risky moves for Stardock from my perspective, so it doesn't quite make sense their company would insist on these claims unless a more emotional motivation was involved or that there was an actual malice of Stardock towards Fred and Paul to intentionally cause them harm with defamation and with a loss of business. I can see that the same kind of perspective might be true of Brad though, that perhaps he perceives Fred and Paul to have done something similar as he seems to have claimed.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 10:27:26 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
orzophile
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2018, 04:25:45 am »

I'll match up to $1100 in donations, of which approximately $220 have been added already.

That's very generous of you.  What was the gofundme total at the start of your match?

It was sitting at $19,500 when I originally posted. One person has already contacted me saying they were donating partially inspired by that, so it would be unfair to move the goalposts. As of this post $240 have been added.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2018, 05:43:19 am »

So I was literally just about to give Brad the benefit of the doubt and suggest he more likely wasn't being emotionally biased but simply was expressing what he understood to be true, and then ironically he strongly supported my original opinion of his emotional bias by banning or having someone ban me from his discord chat room.

For me that more or less settles it, because if he believed in the integrity of his claims and didn't have any intention of propaganda or possible defamation, then I think he would have understood that I have a view on an understanding of the issue just as he does or anyone else. I like Stardock's games and I continue to play them, but just to me, it seems Brad publicly has a very poor understanding of the strength of his arguments in regards to his case.

That means there is also a chance that banning me was just a facade to get away with controlling the information on his discord since what I said wasn't necessarily in his favor of his opinion in the particular argument we had, but, without the immediate appearance of that propaganda intent. Though, I gave him a fair suggestion on how he could strengthen his use of some of the SCO races in Stardock's game which would ultimately benefit his business, I still had an intention of suggesting him to avoid legal trouble too because ultimately the dispute may reflect poorly on him, though I wouldn't confuse his personal animosity with that of Stardock as a company itself. He is entitled to moderate his chat room of course, but it doesn't make his claims any more logical, and now because I'm banned, I can't converse with him to determine if his claims seem more fair to me, so now I'm stuck with the conclusion that it seems more likely to me that he had and/or has an emotional bias.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 10:30:34 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2018, 06:01:15 am »

He just banned you for being two-faced, "Zelnick".

One exactly wouldn't take it kindly to be talked down to behind their back while saying something different to their face.
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2018, 06:01:54 am »

He just banned you for being two-faced, "Zelnick".

But that excuse doesn't make sense.

One exactly wouldn't take it kindly to be talked down to behind their back while saying something different to their face.

I don't generally take such actions to mean kindness either, I feel he consistently mislead me by intentionally neglecting evidence that would have questioned some of his claims, which to me, indicates he was not giving a fair assessment, or otherwise bias, and possibly to the extent of propaganda and the defamation of Fred and Paul. In terms of the documents, I don't see that there is a claim for defamation in Fred and Paul's counter-complaint, it would just be my opinion as a possible effect, but there is a claim for punitive damages in the countercomplaint.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 10:34:19 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2018, 06:08:36 am »

So I was literally just about to give Brad the benefit of the doubt and suggest he more likely wasn't being emotional but simply was expressing what he understood to be true, and then ironically he strongly supported my original opinion of his emotional bias by banning or having someone ban me from his discord chat room.

Can't say I blame them if you act the same way there as you do here. On this forum, you're 50% of the forum activity right now. It used to be the Ur-Quan Masters forum, and now it's CommanderShepard's living room. I've griped to Death 999 over PM, and as has always been the case around here, they take a painfully laissez faire view of forum moderation.

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He just banned you for being two-faced, "Zelnick".

One exactly wouldn't take it kindly to be talked down to behind their back while saying something different to their face.

Whoa, is this Zelnick too? I had confirmed that CmdrShep is the same guy as that horrible "Fake McCoy" troll poster from a few years back based on the email address he has on his profile. What are you using to determine that he's also Zelnik, exactly?
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CommanderShepard
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2018, 06:13:40 am »

So I was literally just about to give Brad the benefit of the doubt and suggest he more likely wasn't being emotional but simply was expressing what he understood to be true, and then ironically he strongly supported my original opinion of his emotional bias by banning or having someone ban me from his discord chat room.

Can't say I blame them if you act the same way there as you do here. On this forum, you're 50% of the forum activity right now. It used to be the Ur-Quan Masters forum, and now it's CommanderShepard's living room. I've griped to Death 999 over PM, and as has always been the case around here, they take a painfully laissez faire view of forum moderation.

Even if it were true that I was 50% of the "activity," I don't see that there is anything wrong with that on its own. I can have my own opinion on the subject and share it. If Death999 thinks I am breaking any forum rules, they are free to tell me and I will respect their request.

Whoa, is this Zelnick too? I had confirmed that CmdrShep is the same guy as that horrible "Fake McCoy" troll poster from a few years back based on the email address he has on his profile. What are you using to determine that he's also Zelnik, exactly?

I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption. Someone on discord suggested I was some other poster here named "Zelnik" but the reason I chose "Zelnick" is just because it happens to be a name I saw on the UQM game. I also made this account on a public server in an area where there are other people interested in the SC games, so I can't attest to that other point. From my perspective I've given a fair perspective on the issue after putting much effort into investigating it. If people want to disagree with that, they are certainly entitled to.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 06:24:03 am by CommanderShepard » Logged
Serosis
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Re: Support Dogar and Kazon, legal defense fund is up!
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2018, 06:18:04 am »

Whoa, is this Zelnick too? I had confirmed that CmdrShep is the same guy as that horrible "Fake McCoy" troll poster from a few years back based on the email address he has on his profile. What are you using to determine that he's also Zelnik, exactly?

No, no, no, no... I wouldn't stoop so low to accuse anyone of being that guy.

Shepard was the username that was the correct way of spelling "Zelnick" on the Discord. Not "Zelnik" without the 'C'.

That "Zelnik" was "DreadCassowary" on Discord and was banned just as fast.
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