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Author Topic: Augmented reality game to save the world  (Read 722 times)
Zanthius
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Augmented reality game to save the world
« on: September 16, 2018, 12:47:27 pm »

« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 07:24:55 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Zanthius
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2018, 01:52:25 pm »

So, are any of you guys interested in making such a game to save mankind?

Shouldn't be so much more difficult than making Pokémon Go.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 01:58:51 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Death 999
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2018, 05:17:53 pm »

… that wasn't easy, you know? It had a major studio behind it. Plus, I don't see how this would actually work. You've mixed environmentalism, human rights, and AI control. It seems a bit muddled.
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Zanthius
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2018, 05:23:31 pm »

… that wasn't easy, you know? It had a major studio behind it. Plus, I don't see how this would actually work. You've mixed environmentalism, human rights, and AI control. It seems a bit muddled.

Well, I guess we need to figure out how to make this work. Otherwise, I think Russia and China are going to make lots of killer robots soon.

But I am not scared of dying, so I don't care so much if Chinese and Russian killer robots are coming to kill me. Wink
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 05:24:45 pm »

That's a rather cliché plot, why would that be in any way "powerful"? Stories about homicidal and genocidal AI have already been done to death.
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Zanthius
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 05:27:29 pm »

That's a rather cliché plot, why would that be in any way "powerful"?

Because it is actually going to happen I guess. Machine learning algorithms weren't very good before 2012. Now they are beating humans in lots of things, and they will soon be able to beat humans in almost anything.

Anyhow, professor Harari tells it much better than me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ELw11xPl8

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The possibility of LAWs has generated significant debate, especially about the risk of "killer robots" roaming the earth - in the near or far future. The group Campaign to Stop Killer Robots formed in 2013. In July 2015, over 1,000 experts in artificial intelligence signed a letter warning of the threat of an arms race in military artificial intelligence and calling for a ban on autonomous weapons. The letter was presented in Buenos Aires at the 24th International Joint Conference on Artificial Intelligence (IJCAI-15) and was co-signed by Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, Steve Wozniak, Noam Chomsky, Skype co-founder Jaan Tallinn and Google DeepMind co-founder Demis Hassabis, among others.[25][26]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_autonomous_weapon#Campaigns_on_banning_LAWs
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 05:31:55 pm by Zanthius » Logged
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2018, 05:41:29 pm »

And the same Wikipedia article also explains the potential benefits of such autonomous weapons – namely, waging wars without putting human lives at risk.

Obviously, there isn't going to be an easy solution for the problem of sharing our world with other intelligent beings, especially since we've done a terrible job sharing it with other humans so far. But I wish someone would approach it from a different angle than just "ban them all".
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Zanthius
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2018, 05:47:04 pm »

And the same Wikipedia article also explains the potential benefits of such autonomous weapons – namely, waging wars without putting human lives at risk.

You think this also would be a good idea when dictatorships like China and Russia are the countries that are most eager to develop killer robots?

And let us use them for killing homosexuals and human rights activists, without putting Chinese and Russian police officers at risk. That sounds like a great idea.

Also, it would be much easier to be a dictator with killer robots. You don't even need to convince a human military that you should stay in power. You just need to be able to control the killer robots.
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2018, 05:58:51 pm »

Well, in that case these countries might finally abolish conscription. Tongue

And abuse of power is another important issue, I agree. But what advantage would any hypothetical dictators gain over the people with killer robots that they wouldn't have with human soldiers? Even today, few protests end in a successful coup d'état. And even with killer robots, the rebels may be able to hack them.
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Zanthius
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2018, 06:12:43 pm »

Well, in that case these countries might finally abolish conscription. Tongue

People living in Russia and China will soon be monitored completely since we are also getting much more advanced surveillance technology. So, while it might have been possible to secretly criticise Putin and Xi Jinping in Russia and China, this will soon be completely impossible due to more advanced surveillance technology. Citizens of Russia and China will then be living in constant fear of saying the wrong thing. I don't think this would be a very good way to live.

And abuse of power is another important issue, I agree. But what advantage would any hypothetical dictators gain over the people with killer robots that they wouldn't have with human soldiers? Even today, few protests end in a successful coup d'état. And even with killer robots, the rebels may be able to hack them.

Well, even though humans have done lots of atrocities, they are marginally better than killer robots. It is for example more difficult for a human being to kill an innocent child than for a killer robot.  Also, dictators need to give people in the police and military lots of power, in order to make them support the dictator. With killer robots, the dictator doesn't really need a lot of human supporters.
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Re: Story to save mankind
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2018, 06:20:01 pm »

People living in Russia and China will soon be monitored completely since we are also getting much more advanced surveillance technology. So, while it might have been possible to secretly criticise Putin and Xi Jinping in Russia and China, this will soon be completely impossible due to more advanced surveillance technology. Citizens of Russia and China will then be living in constant fear of saying the wrong thing. I don't think this would be a very good way to live.

The same can be said of any other government on Earth. So wherever you live, we must think of ways to combat government surveillance and other abuses of power. And as always, advanced technology is going to be utilized by both sides.
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Zanthius
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Re: Augmented reality game to save the world
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2018, 06:35:04 pm »

The same can be said of any other government on Earth. So wherever you live, we must think of ways to combat government surveillance and other abuses of power. And as always, advanced technology is going to be utilized by both sides.

Sure, but it is much more difficult to work against surveillance in dictatorships since people working against the will of the dictator often are murdered. In western democracies, we can say more or less whatever we want. The presidents and prime ministers don't have so much power, and there are already powerful organizations and a legal framework working to protect us from surveillance in western democracies.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 06:36:03 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Deus Siddis
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Re: Augmented reality game to save the world
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2018, 04:56:05 pm »

In western democracies, we can say more or less whatever we want.

In western democracies, you can say whatever you want, as long as it is not illegal.

In the rest of the world, you can say whatever you want, as long as it is not illegal.

there are already powerful western organizations and a legal framework working to protect surveillance from us in democracies.

By repositioning three words in the above misquote I was able to make it an accurate statement. Cheesy
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Zanthius
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Re: Augmented reality game to save the world
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2018, 05:35:42 pm »

In western democracies, you can say whatever you want, as long as it is not illegal.

In the rest of the world, you can say whatever you want, as long as it is not illegal.

If Russian journalists wrote about Vladimir Putin in the same way as many American journalists are writing about Donald Trump, they would all be dead. The world is not the same everywhere.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index

In any of the countries with red color, you cannot necessarily work openly against more surveillance and killer robots. So it is better to work in secrecy there, by delivering human rights propaganda to residence mailboxes.

By repositioning three words in the above misquote I was able to make it an accurate statement. Cheesy

I think this is a bit more accurate:



Western Europe has less surveillance than the US, but the US has less than Russia, and Russia has less than China and the Arabic countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_and_surveillance_by_country

By the way, I have written about the inability to appreciate nuances at my page about biases:

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In the real world, very few things are entirely black or white. For example, all societies have some level of corruption. However, there are vast differences between nations. A standard way of thinking and/or arguing is that since all countries have some degree of corruption, we should not differentiate between the most corrupted and the least corrupted societies. This inability to appreciate nuances can cause people to think that it is more or less impossible to decrease corruption and thereby make people less motivated to fight against corruption. It can also make people in a country that has very little corruption think it is just as bad there as in all other countries since there is some corruption.

https://www.archania.org/biases/#Inability_to_appreciate_nuances
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 06:26:49 pm by Zanthius » Logged
Deus Siddis
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Re: Augmented reality game to save the world
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2018, 09:53:07 pm »

If Russian journalists wrote about Vladimir Putin in the same way as many American journalists are writing about Donald Trump, they would all be dead.

That might be so. It also might have been that Iraq really had weapons of mass destruction or that Libya needed liberation from virtuous freedom fighters.  Alas, some of the things suspected about other countries by the first world turn out to be true while others turn out to be war time propaganda.

But what is very much clear are the explicit laws and punishments of various nations.  If the law of a land allows imprisonment or seizing assets from someone for saying thing X, then we know they do not have freedom to say whatever they want.  And it will then be that much harder for them to convince another nation's populace with different limitations put on their verbal freedom, that they have it so much worse and should put their lives at risk to pursue an extremely vague definition of what "freedom" means.


"Greetings oppressed people of country X!  We are political activists from the European Union, where it is illegal to say things that might cause gross offense, insult certain religious constructs or debate the exact number of armenians killed a hundred years ago in history.  We just want you to know that we can criticize to some extent the unelected bureaucrats of our government and we think you should give up your lives, livelihoods, friends or existence outside of a prison cell in order to maybe get the right to criticize your own unelected bureaucrat(s) to a similar extent as we can ours.  Whether or not you do, our American allies will be invading you for your resources at their earliest convenience.

P.S. If you disagree it is because the political machinations of your society have brainwashed you while it is just by coincidence that we so thoroughly agree with the political machinations of our own."



Western Europe has less surveillance than the US, but the US has less than Russia, and Russia has less than China and the Arabic countries.

I too imagine this is so (and certainly hope it is).  But what would this same map look like decades ago.  Because only by comparing what was and what is can you guess where things are going.  I suspect that while Russia and China and perhaps some third world countries are getting slowly better, our nations are getting worse in this way.

By the way, I have written about the inability to appreciate nuances at my page about biases:

If you want nuanced responses from people it helps to prescribe nuanced solutions to well evidenced and significant problems.  If folks sense that the problem is illusory, unlikely or dwarfed by larger issues or that the solution is completely unrelated to the problem, unworkable or itself unnuanced, then you will receive a response of another kind.
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