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News: Paul Reiche and Fred Ford want to continue the story they started when they created Star Control II — The Ur-Quan Masters. «Happy days and jubilation!» «But wait!» «There is something wrong here... something which makes my sheath retract and my talons ooze.» «Please, Captain, we need your help!»

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Author Topic: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development  (Read 1001 times)
futonrevolution
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2018, 08:24:09 pm »

It may be Paul Reiche really never created Star Control, and that he just got someone with a very similar name to move aside for him to take credit...

It was actually Paul Rudd.
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Talonious
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2018, 08:34:29 pm »

This is focused on SC1/2, not the lawsuit or Ghosts.

I don't think you can really separate them at this point. This is a pretty heavy "P&F were the creators of SC1/2" article and interview.

Arstechnica kind of goes out on a limb a little bit even covering it. For a lawsuit of this magnitude, there's been remarkably little coverage. Very few websites seem to want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Youtube personalities too have shied away.
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Zanthius
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2018, 08:49:06 pm »

it annoys me time and again how you seem to attack those statements, which are quite easy to deduct. But I fear that's just my perception because this is a words only, and not face to face.... Sorry for the rant.

When I did a personality test, I scored almost zero on agreeableness..... apparently I am an extremely disagreeable person.

I need to focus on speaking in a more diplomatic way, otherwise, I am likely to offend people. Sorry about that.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 09:49:28 pm by Zanthius » Logged
kaminiwa
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2018, 11:46:30 pm »

This is focused on SC1/2, not the lawsuit or Ghosts.

I don't think you can really separate them at this point. This is a pretty heavy "P&F were the creators of SC1/2" article and interview.

Arstechnica kind of goes out on a limb a little bit even covering it. For a lawsuit of this magnitude, there's been remarkably little coverage. Very few websites seem to want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Youtube personalities too have shied away.

It's only an issue if they advertise themselves as the creators in the context of advertising or promoting Ghosts, where it ostensibly creates formal confusion between "I helped write the game code and setting" vs "I was the publisher". I don't think anyone watching this would be confused and think they were a publisher. And Stardock can't prevent them from talking about their previous work in an objective, biographical sense - they can only stop them from leveraging that as promotion for their new game.

(I'm not saying Stardock is right, merely that this doesn't even cross the line that Stardock themselves has drawn in the sand)
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Talonious
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2018, 12:49:13 am »

This is focused on SC1/2, not the lawsuit or Ghosts.

I don't think you can really separate them at this point. This is a pretty heavy "P&F were the creators of SC1/2" article and interview.

Arstechnica kind of goes out on a limb a little bit even covering it. For a lawsuit of this magnitude, there's been remarkably little coverage. Very few websites seem to want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Youtube personalities too have shied away.

It's only an issue if they advertise themselves as the creators in the context of advertising or promoting Ghosts, where it ostensibly creates formal confusion between "I helped write the game code and setting" vs "I was the publisher". I don't think anyone watching this would be confused and think they were a publisher. And Stardock can't prevent them from talking about their previous work in an objective, biographical sense - they can only stop them from leveraging that as promotion for their new game.

(I'm not saying Stardock is right, merely that this doesn't even cross the line that Stardock themselves has drawn in the sand)

Legal issue vs. PR consideration

Essentially, this sort of article very definitely helps promote the idea that they are the creators behind Star Control 1/2. I'm not qualified to say how much of a legal impact it might have, but arstechnica basically allowing them to go on at length about the intellectual process they went through to produce (create) Star Control 1 and Star Control 2 certainly doesn't hurt the argument legally that they're widely considered to be the creators in the public square.

Does it help that argument legally? Damned if I know. Like I said, not qualified to say.

But I'd have to think that the website in question was at least aware of the ongoing litigation, and allowing them to do a long interview/article heavily hinting that they were the creators and walking their readers through the creation process is unlikely to be an accident.
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rosepatel
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2018, 01:23:53 am »

The actual journalist is aware of the lawsuit for sure. And is one of few people who have spoken directly with both parties to the lawsuit.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/02/star-control-countersuit-aims-to-invalidate-stardocks-trademarks/

I suppose it's equal opportunity when they bring both sides on to talk about big moments in their history. You could even say it's neutral that they let P&F tell their story about SC1 and SC2.

But when Ars Technica says "we've scored big: we tracked down the creators of the Star Control series—none other than Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III", they probably knew that was a shot across Stardock's bow. It's an obvious point to everyone in the world (except Stardock and their lawyers after September 2017).

Is Art Technica biased against Stardock? Or does reality have a bias against Stardock?

Let's not spend too much airtime on this. There's another thread for lawsuit stuff, and this video is a great story that should be enjoyed on its own merits.
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2018, 01:47:56 am »

Arstechnica kind of goes out on a limb a little bit even covering it. For a lawsuit of this magnitude, there's been remarkably little coverage. Very few websites seem to want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Youtube personalities too have shied away.

Honestly lawsuits are far less interesting than actual games. And coverage of SC:O has been pretty lackluster.

The thing that could have really drawn in the crowds of old fans and (perhaps much more importantly) the media attention was/is an actual sequel to the world and story of Star Control. Which Origins simply is not.

I believe Brad Wardell was correct in his original assessment based on fan reactions that indeed he really needed copyright licensing from Paul and Fred to make a real star control game and not some "alternate universe" fan game. The name "Star Control" is only relevant to people who remember the game (most critically those individuals in the gaming press that would inevitably cover the game) and thus care about the flavor and details they maintain such nostalgia for and interest in. The name by itself is worth very little. Where he fucked up was in convincing himself that a lawsuit against the original developers would improve his situation.
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Talonious
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2018, 02:49:27 am »

Arstechnica kind of goes out on a limb a little bit even covering it. For a lawsuit of this magnitude, there's been remarkably little coverage. Very few websites seem to want to touch it with a ten foot pole. Youtube personalities too have shied away.

Honestly lawsuits are far less interesting than actual games.

Please don't take my deleting the rest of your post in the reply for not finding it interesting. I do. But I found this piece the most interesting so I wanted to isolate it in our discussion.

There's two pieces to this. First is if this is true in general, and second is if it is true specific to this situation.

I can't claim to know for sure in either case, but I lean towards essentially an answer that differentiates the general target market. Star Control Origins has been released. This is a fact. And yet, there's not a ton of discussion on that game here on a dedicated Star Control board.

That's interesting to me.In terms of Star Control news it's easily one of the most interesting and notable news items in quite a while, but what are we all talking about? Is there a thread dedicated to talking about Star Control: Origins? Or really, even a non-dedicated thread?

Now I should caveat that I'm a very infrequent contributor here to this community so maybe there's some policy that I'm unaware of that specifies that Origins is not germane to the general discussion board. But it does seem like more people are interested in the discussion of this lawsuit than an actual new Star Control game.
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CelticMinstrel
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2018, 03:17:59 am »

If we had done a linear extrapolation, the result would've been much more massive than what SC2's systems show us.

Sure, but you cannot necessarily (or at least shouldn't) do a linear extrapolation from a single sample.....
On the other hand, given a single sample, it's more likely that it's typical or at least common, rather than rare or unique. You can't derive from that what a typical star system would look like, but you can conclude that other star systems likely include planets.

Now I should caveat that I'm a very infrequent contributor here to this community so maybe there's some policy that I'm unaware of that specifies that Origins is not germane to the general discussion board. But it does seem like more people are interested in the discussion of this lawsuit than an actual new Star Control game.
It was decided that SC:O discussion belongs in the Starbase Cafe section. There are two or three threads about it there, but they haven't seen any posts for a week or two.
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Talonious
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2018, 03:22:27 am »

Ah thanks. I appreciate the context.
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Deus Siddis
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2018, 07:09:53 am »

Star Control Origins has been released. This is a fact. And yet, there's not a ton of discussion on that game here on a dedicated Star Control board.

Origins looks like a fan game with an actual budget but without any of the things that make a star control game a star control game, save for the name. If it did not come at such a terrible cost I would say "it's nice that it exists".

But it is still just a reboot, not the next chapter. It is an attempt to cash in on the name, I guess. The game play does not look like it has advanced much from the early nineties, the animations (at least in cut scenes) looks like some disney children's programming from cable television; the soul just isn't there. In other words, the things that could have been updated have remained mostly the same and what should still be there is no where to be found. Maybe I just need to see more let's plays, but I do not think so.

I honestly would have been 10x more excited by a company of Stardock's size taking on its own action/strategy/adventure game with a space opera setting, exploring new game play and developing a world more tailored to its own team's experience and strengths. In trying to imitate the work of another very different artist, they took on a huge challenge. Too much of a challenge it appears.

Now I should caveat that I'm a very infrequent contributor here to this community so maybe there's some policy that I'm unaware of that specifies that Origins is not germane to the general discussion board. But it does seem like more people are interested in the discussion of this lawsuit than an actual new Star Control game.

Origins is an "actual" Star Control game in the same sense as Star Control 3. It has the name. It lacks the everything else. And its egomaniac creator is trying to cancel the continuation of the actual story and world. Likely along with this very forum and project as well if he succeeds. So yeah, you are damn right the lawsuit is the talk of the town around here.
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2018, 11:20:57 am »

it annoys me time and again how you seem to attack those statements, which are quite easy to deduct. But I fear that's just my perception because this is a words only, and not face to face.... Sorry for the rant.

When I did a personality test, I scored almost zero on agreeableness..... apparently I am an extremely disagreeable person.

I need to focus on speaking in a more diplomatic way, otherwise, I am likely to offend people. Sorry about that.
It's okay, we're on the webs here. I just needed to rant a bit about it.

And from a purely mathematical point you're right. One data point does usually not allow the calculation of probabilities. But in astronomy, where the real dataset would be too large for a computer the size of our Solar System, mathematical probabilities have to be based on far too small sets.
Before we had only one solar system data set to guesstimate existence of other planetary/solar systems. Before we could say  the probability of being so is high, abouve 90%, just because the planets seem to be the result of the formation of a Sun, and it is very likely that other suns, especially those similar to our Sun, formed similarily, and thus also formed planetary systems.
Now we know for sure that there are other planetary systems. Now we cans ay the probability of extraterestial life is likely to be above 50%. And it'll take quite some time to prove so.

But even if we knew all about our galaxy, that would still be one data set compared to the multi-quadrillions galaxies out there, and you don't know naught about them yet.
Depending on the actual size and difficulty of getting the full data set, probabilities sometimes have to be guesstimated based on a single know data point.
Most scientists believed so, just because of sheer math probability.
What do you mean? Probabilities are based upon frequencies in randomized subsets generalized to larger sets.
Well, we'll be for the foreseeable future not in a state to do so, as our subset always will be non-random, as we'll only have data of our galactic neighbourhood, which is a non-random sample.

Anyway, we're off-topic, and I contribted to this sad fact far too much myself.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 11:45:33 am by Krulle » Logged
futonrevolution
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2018, 04:43:49 am »

Youtube personalities too have shied away.

Leonard French (Your Favorite Copyright Attorney) did two videos on it, and Youtuber Law did three. I don't know enough about that section of youtube to know if any 50 subs or less folks have decided that they could fill a running time of ten minutes and one second about it without having to write a script.
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2018, 01:26:33 am »

A followup on others who helped them:
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/10/video-the-people-who-helped-make-star-control-2-did-a-ton-of-other-stuff/

Nothing directly on Ghosts or the suit, but I feel like the implicit takeaway is  that it was their team, not Accolade's.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 01:36:52 am by Mormont » Logged
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Re: Paul and Fred discuss SC2's development
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2018, 01:30:51 am »

New video! This time P&F talk about the other contributors to SC2, including the guy who directed Minions!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw_lnnt52EY
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