The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Bob on July 09, 2003, 01:37:22 pm



Title: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Bob on July 09, 2003, 01:37:22 pm
I have been to those ruins on that planet where u learn about them discovering those "ghosts" and also assume that these "ghosts" are what the Arilou warn you about when you meet them but i have beaten the game and this is not addressed anywhere else in hte game.

My question is that was this put in just to scare you or did i miss something that farther explains this.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: AnonomouSpathi on July 09, 2003, 05:22:32 pm
It's there to scare you.  They're gone man, don't go looking, anybody who goes looking ends up gone.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Shiver on July 10, 2003, 06:01:23 am
Androsynth? I don't know what you're talking about. Never heard of them. You're just imagining things. Do not speak of this again.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Volka on July 10, 2003, 07:44:51 am
They..are just gone. Maybe they went inside other *level*,the Orz *smelled* them and that's how they ended.
Maybe the Orz *danced* with them,but I don't think so.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Matt on July 14, 2003, 02:19:27 am
Quote
Maybe the Orz *danced* with them,but I don't think so.

Plain *dancing* doesn't do what happened. Especially not to the guy who looked through the computer systems:

Quote
HE DID A LOT OF DAMAGE TO THE ANDROSYNTH'S COMPUTER BEFORE WE STOPPED HIM, AND I GUESS HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF IN THE PROCESS. HE'S CUT UP PRETTY BADLY. YOU KNOW, IT'S STRANGE, HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF WORSE THAN I THOUGHT. NOW, WHEN I LOOK AT HIM, IT SEEMS LIKE HE HAS EVEN MORE CUTS THAN JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO, AND BOY, IS HE SCREAMING!


On a somewhat related note, I remember when I first read those particular reports, so many years ago. I had played the game quite a bit and had never landed on the planets, but I knew about the whole Orz/Androsynth thing. I was actually looking through the data files when I first read those. Even out of the game, it really scared me.

Come to think of it, it still does. SC2 is so great!

(You can read the quotes [link=http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/sc2/quotes/lander.txt]here[/link])


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Primat on July 15, 2003, 10:27:26 pm
Quote
Androsynth? I don't know what you're talking about. Never heard of them. You're just imagining things. Do not speak of this again.


Okay, please don't get angry Shiver, but what REALLY happened to the Androsynth?


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Sturm on July 22, 2003, 10:26:33 am
Quote


Okay, please don't get angry Shiver, but what REALLY happened to the Androsynth?


well, the Orz gotta eat... don't they?
get the point :'(?


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: fbrg on August 06, 2003, 11:36:26 pm
The scientest fellow on the planet was obviously being killed by one of the seminvisible ghost/energy things that did in the androsinth. I don't see what that has to do with the orz.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: fbrg on August 07, 2003, 01:26:28 am
One other thing did you notice that the Arilou say they are hunting *Nnngn* and when the Orz get mad they say *Nnnnggaaahhhhh*. Seems similar...


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Chrispy on August 07, 2003, 04:03:35 am
"but what REALLY happened to the Androsynth?"

Since the orz attack u when u ask them about it, im guessing they had something to do with it


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: player1 on August 07, 2003, 04:56:38 am
Hmm...
Did SC3 resolved anything anout whole Orz situation?


(DISCLAIMER: I don't care if it's cannon or not, or do you like like SC3 or not)


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Gill_Bates on August 07, 2003, 05:32:30 am
WARNING : non cannon reply and SC3 spoiler (or SC3 was itself a spoiler?)
The Orz delegation into the Kessari Quadrant are seemingly responsible to the disappearance of the Suppox delegation nd the findings are similar to those of the Androsyths (holes in the hulls of the ships and no bodies)
The Orz also betray you in the end claiming something about them being aligned with some ultimate evil.
So, to sum things up: according to SC3, they are the bad guys.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Chrispy on August 07, 2003, 06:19:04 am
the orz turning agaisnt u is one of the better ideas in sc3. If ever an uqm2 is made, that should be included in the plot.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: fbrg on August 07, 2003, 06:43:02 am
Seems to me the reason the Orz atack you is for the good of your species because - as demonstrated by the incident with the with the scientist and as the Arilou say later on - if you find out to much about the ghost/energy creatures then they can *smell*, ahem, I mean sense you and then they would kill you and likely move on to the rest of your species and the Orz figure that if you are so persistently interested in getting the information that if they don't kill you, you will find out some other way and get yourself and everything around / related to you killed and destroyed.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: fbrg on August 07, 2003, 06:44:43 am
Seems to me the reason the Orz atack you is for the good of your species because - as demonstrated by the incident with the with the scientist and as the Arilou say later on - if you find out to much about the ghost/energy creatures then they can *smell*, ahem, I mean sense you and then they would kill you and likely move on to the rest of your species and the Orz figure that if you are so persistently interested in getting the information that if they don't kill you, you will find out some other way and get yourself and everything around / related to you killed and destroyed.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Chrispy on August 07, 2003, 07:45:29 am
that last message seemed familar :P


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: player1 on August 07, 2003, 03:11:16 pm
Quote
Seems to me the reason the Orz atack you is for the good of your species because - as demonstrated by the incident with the with the scientist and as the Arilou say later on - if you find out to much about the ghost/energy creatures then they can *smell*, ahem, I mean sense you and then they would kill you and likely move on to the rest of your species and the Orz figure that if you are so persistently interested in getting the information that if they don't kill you, you will find out some other way and get yourself and everything around / related to you killed and destroyed.


Hey, that's pretty good explanation.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: fbrg on August 08, 2003, 10:51:56 am
If I remember aright the Arilou also tell one latter on that finding out more about the Androsinth would be hazerdous to ones health...


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Chrispy on August 08, 2003, 09:44:28 pm
the know things about the orz that they wont tlel us


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: frumple on August 11, 2003, 10:56:48 am
The Orz are just creepy, weird little guys.  Not necessarily evil, just REALLY different.  Cute in a terrifying sort of way.

I think that it was the Orz, in fact, who were responsible for the destruction of Eta Vulpeculae (my idea is that they can only be *smelled* in Truespace or Hyperspace, which would explain Bukowski getting ripped apart by things no one could see... kind of a disturbing image).  The Orz mention that they're not really visible to you; you only see what you THINK the Orz are.

As long as you don't bother the Orz about the Androsynth, you're just fine... they don't mind you knowing that the Synth are gone.  They just don't want you to know how or why the Synth left... and if you sniff around about the Synth too much, they do their best to make you regret it.

Some more thoughts.

They keep mentioning things about never wanting to go back to the other side, and they seem to love to kill things.  I think they might be kind of a toned-down version  of the Eternal Ones (a little higher on the food chain than the people in *heavy space* but not quite as high as the Eternal Ones are) - and then there's the idea of the Arilou changing your *smell*... which might be what the Orz call *jumping in front*.  Since you *smell* different thanks to the Arilou, the Orz don't want to kill you when you encounter them.  You're not classed as "food" then.

But when you prove you *smell* enough like the Synth to be interested in what happened to them, you allow yourself to be seen, and then it's chow time.

"There are no more Androsynth.  Only Orz."  The Orz ate them.  :)

I heard once that whoever wrote the dialogue for the Orz invented their untranslatable language by giving a sort of Mad-lib sheet to his five-year-old nephew... a mostly complete script, add a verb here, noun there, adjective someplace else and bang, there was *frumple*.

Now then, are the *nnngn* the little jumpy shooting-star things you see when you're in HSpace/Qspace maybe?


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on August 11, 2003, 07:47:06 pm
Seems to me as though my version makes more sense:

Quote: "HE DID A LOT OF DAMAGE TO THE ANDROSYNTH'S COMPUTER BEFORE WE STOPPED HIM, AND I GUESS HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF IN THE PROCESS. HE'S CUT UP PRETTY BADLY. YOU KNOW, IT'S STRANGE, HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF WORSE THAN I THOUGHT. NOW, WHEN I LOOK AT HIM, IT SEEMS LIKE HE HAS EVEN MORE CUTS THAN JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO, AND BOY, IS HE SCREAMING! "

The scientest fellow on the planet was obviously being killed by one of the seminvisible ghost/energy things that did in the androsinth. I don't see what that has to do with the orz.
Seems to me the reason the Orz attack you if you ask to many questions about the Androsinth is for the good of your species because - as demonstrated by the incident with the with the scientist and as the Arilou say later on - if you find out to much about the ghost/energy creatures then they can *smell*, ahem, I mean sense you and then they would kill you and likely move on to the rest of your species and the Orz figure that if you are so persistently interested in getting the information that if they don't kill you, you will find out some other way other way of geting the information and get yourself and everything around / related to you killed and destroyed.
So why is it that everyone thinks the Orz are evil??

Also even though the Arilou and the Orz seem to have a long and unfriendly past the Arilou never acturly say the Orz did in the Androsinth. I think the reason the Arilou warn you to be wary of the Orz is because the Orz being some kind of linked "super" organism and as such likly have little regard for individual life.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Crowley on August 12, 2003, 03:18:47 am
One theory occurred to me that I don't know that anyone has suggested: What if the Orz ARE the Androsynth, in a way? Perhaps the Orz were some kind of "ghosts" that possessed the Androsynth and modified them to be more comfortable bodies. Possibly they found Androsynth especially easy to work with since they were artificial in origin.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on August 12, 2003, 03:33:31 am
The Orz say though that what you see isin't real, that what you see is just *fingers* of the Orz pushed into *heavy space*, and that you really arn't *smelling* them with light waves but that what you see is an illusion.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Crowley on August 12, 2003, 03:49:16 am
Illusion is just one theory. Other people have pondered upon this, for example how can an illusion kill people in a heavy exoskeleton? The Orz say something along the lines "You think you can *smell* Orz, but you don't." With that theory I suggested (and it is just a suggestion, I don't mean that I support and believe in it completely), they would mean that those beaky fishes are not the Orz themselves, but controlled drones of sorts.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on August 12, 2003, 03:56:44 am
I'm not saying the Orz are illusion. I'm saying what you see is an illusion. Theres something there allright.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Sage on August 12, 2003, 04:17:19 am
Another popular theory is that you are merely *seeing* a 3-D "slice" of a n-D (n presumed as > 3) being. TFB has in many instances supported the "Orz = one creature" theory, and the n-D slice seems like a logical extension of this idea (to me, anyhow). Is it possible that *people energy* is the closest the Orz come to telling you what they really are? Maybe. I don't know.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Culture20 on August 12, 2003, 05:55:59 am
Orz says that you don't see Orz, but you see light-reflections.  The happy-people energy is joking (or misunderstands you); it's kind of like saying "You don't hear the tree falling in the woods, you 'hear' your cochlear cilia vibrating in your inner-ear after the impact of the tree.

Warlock proposed the androsynth-possessed-reshaped theory, and it fits the Arilou's statement.  I don't like it as much though.  A statement similar to the Arilou's could be "There are no more Deutchmarks, only Euros."  Although the value of the Deutchmarks were transfered into Euros, and the Euros took the DM's place, the DM's did not _become_ Euros.

I really do like the nD slice theory.  It also opens up the possibility that while the "fingers" we see are flying around in space ships, maybe Orz's teeth or digestive system are on the surface of the Androsynth world, and that system might be voluntary or involuntary - maybe once you know about it, you can be digested, and Orz can't stop it from happening.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Sage on August 12, 2003, 06:45:00 am
It should be noted that *fingers* might not be a direct translation and that they might mean something more like "a lesser manipulative extension of the larger creature". Teeth and stomach (or even hands, really) might not fit into that analogy.

I have also read Warlock's files and theories regarding the Orz. However I seem to remember the Marine vac suit "bubble" where the "Orz" was supposed to be housed turned out to be a viewscreen. What direction he intended to take this idea is anyone's guess, really. I kind of wish I could have seen the (paraphrasing) "horrible INSANE visage of the Orz, accented by a pair of Groucho Marx glasses"

*Light reflections* also, to a certain degree, support the "slice" theory. Light (presumably) is restricted to 3 dimensions. And since your sight relies on light, what you *see* of the Orz is not necessarily what the Orz are.

WYSINNWYG.
(What you see is not necessarily what you get.)


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Yehat_Sympathizer on August 14, 2003, 04:47:22 pm
The theory that ORZ is one creature is the most interesting (and creepy...) so far.

By the way, how come the ORZ got to beat the androsynth? It seems like the Guardian is built specficaly to counter the nemesis, so it's very tough to win if you're the ORZ. Was this done on purpose in the game? (the ORZ have some hidden abilities..?)


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krulle on August 14, 2003, 05:24:35 pm
The Orz did not fight the Androsynth. If the Orz did something to the 'Synth and what, is not explained in the game. Whenever you get to know what happened to your beloved cloned slaves, it will be to late for you to survive your day. These are *fat words*. Do not ask these questions again. This makes other people *frumple*.

Do you like *parties*. We do several *times*. You like to *dance* with me?


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Chrispy on August 14, 2003, 08:30:09 pm
since they say *juicy* a lot, they could have eaten the androsynth


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Sage on August 14, 2003, 11:40:48 pm
They also *squeeze* *juice* too...

I seem to recall that the Androsynth were taken over by ground troops only, with no evidence of orbital bombardment. If all the Androsynth were at the homeworld (which seems like a rare and somewhat stupid occurance from a defensive perpsective), none of them (presumably) would be able to get to ships to defend themselves. There's a likelyhood that the Orz sent a LARGE amount of Marines to all the spaceports and kept them from entering thier ships. Or it's entirely possible that the Androsynth were too spooked out by the spectral whatevers they were dealing with to notice they were being attacked and taken away.

I imagine if the Orz *danced* with the Androsynth instead of *pulling* them to wherever, the result of the conflict would have been much different.

Basically, the Androsynth were caught with their guard down and (probably) payed a great price because of it.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Dogar on August 15, 2003, 01:18:32 pm
I dunno, I just can't see the Orz as being the great evil thing that the Androsynth got all scared about and made them do research on ghosts and poltergeists.  Even if the Orz are just *fingers* they seem to nice to be *nngn*.  Maybe when the Andro were experementing with DF, the Orz also caught the scent of the Andro along with *nngn*, but decided to stick around after *nngn* did thier business and left.  For some odd reason I can't help but think that they are a red herring made by the developers to lead us away to the true *nngn*  But then again maybe I've been blinded by my fondness for the Orz and thier ships.  (Ok, so that's a lie, it's just the ships:))


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on August 15, 2003, 06:07:42 pm
An odd thing: I was reading over the sc2 story section on the Pages of Now and Forever and I noticed something: Unnervalt is in Androsinth space. Well it says Berton sent her ship back to earth when the Ur-Quan headed her way right? And the ship never came back? Well it says that when they left Unnervalt in the Precurser ship they found Burton's ship, the Tobermoon, adrift in the ort cloud with almost NO damage and, get this, NO CREW ON BOARD. So are you shure the nngn just went after the Androsinth homeworld?


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Death 999 on August 15, 2003, 07:44:20 pm
Wow, you're right!
That reminds me -- IIRC, in SC2 for the PC you start the game with 2 cruisers; in UQM you start with 1.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on August 15, 2003, 07:55:42 pm
No, in both games you start with 1 earthling ship. I have them both.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Yehat_Sympathizer on August 15, 2003, 08:07:27 pm
The SC2 section? What's that? is it an official part of the story, or an added thing by fans?


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Culture20 on August 15, 2003, 09:25:25 pm
It's straight from the SC2 manual.  I never thought about it.  The manual was written in such a way to make you think that the crew was taken prisoner, and that maybe one of the probes was responsible (one attacked later).  Maybe the Tobermoon met the Orz, and repeatedly asked about the Androsynth.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krogoth255 on August 15, 2003, 10:18:36 pm
I'm pretty sure the Tobermoon in the SC2 manual stated that it was clearly attack and damaged by a probe but, that it's not clear itself even because. Don't probes just breakdown ships for raw matreals for reproduction? Why was the Tobermoon still standing then? Anyways that part of the story suppose to explain why you start with a earthing cruiser in the begining of Star Control 2.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on August 15, 2003, 10:22:39 pm
Perhaps the *nngn* spread throughout Androsinth space killing all of the androsinth who where in ships and mistook the Tobermoon for a Androsinth ship. And why does everyone think the Orz are responsible for this? The ghost / energy thing the scientest guy encounters down on the Androsinth planet seems to me to be nothing like the Orz...


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on August 15, 2003, 10:28:55 pm
Quote
I'm pretty sure the Tobermoon in the SC2 manual stated that it was clearly attack and damaged by a probe but, that it's not clear itself even because. Don't probes just breakdown ships for raw matreals for reproduction? Why was the Tobermoon still standing then? Anyways that part of the story suppose to explain why you start with a earthing cruiser in the begining of Star Control 2.



The probe attack comes after you find the ship. You just find the Tobermoon adrift with no crew and almost no damage and then the text goes on to speculate from Burtons viewpoint about what had happened to the crew and weather someone had captured them.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on August 15, 2003, 10:43:34 pm
Did anyone noticed about the orz special ability, the marine troopers? They get into the ship without doing any damage to the ship itself and start killing everyone. Maybe their weapons destroy the bodies of the victims or maybe they eat them :-/


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krogoth255 on August 15, 2003, 11:05:31 pm
Well I guess I skimmed across that part so I probably miss that important detail. If I not mistaken the Tobermoon tried to go back to Earth around the same time when the Androsyth were playing around with IDF. The Tobermoon was also found not far from Vela itself which is about 50-100 hyperspace units away from Androsyths homeworld.  :-/ Maybe Burton encountered the entries responsible for the dissapperence of the Androsyth and Burton fell to being a victim herself. That even leaves a plot hole itself.

Why weren't the colonist at Vela suffer the same fate as Burton? When the Androsyth scienist released the horror that destroyed their whole race. By the entiy making itself known to all the other Androsyth? Maybe because, the Androsyth were just clones all it took was one person to have *smelled* by the enity to cause a chain reaction. Which destroyed the Androsyth, each human have different scent.

That explains why that one lander scienist was the only one affected the creatures and why he did all he could to prevent the creatures from knowning the other humans. Burton and her crew must of been made aware to the creatures while the colonist on Vela were blissful ingroent about the whole incident.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on August 15, 2003, 11:28:45 pm
Yep that sounds right. About Burton though: she stayed on the planet and sent the ship back under the command of her first officer. Burton was killed in the probe attack on the Tobermoon after you find it adrift and salvage it.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Culture20 on August 16, 2003, 12:24:44 am
Krogoth, the Androsynth could have also foolishly alerted all other Androsynth to this "IDF threat," thus opening them all up to attack.  The Tobermoon might have interscepted some transmission...


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Culture20 on August 16, 2003, 12:47:25 am
Quote
Perhaps the *nngn* spread throughout Androsinth space killing all of the androsinth who where in ships and mistook the Tobermoon for a Androsinth ship.

I've never thought of Nngn as dangerous to humans (Arilou practice a catch and release game with them, which they wouldn't do with something dangerous to us).

Quote
And why does everyone think the Orz are responsible for this? The ghost / energy thing the scientest guy encounters down on the Androsinth planet seems to me to be nothing like the Orz...


You cannot *slide* like Orz from *outside* to *inside* and *in between*.
It is sad, but Orz can *pull* the *campers* after being *connected*.
This is soon.
Orz are trying to *pull* the Androsynth, but they are so *silly*, they do not want.
Arilou can *slide*. Also Taalo. Many can *slide*, but Orz are better of course.
*Pulling* is refered to in the middle of a paragraph involving *sliding* to other *levels*, I believe it is forced interdimensional travel.  Something *pulling* me from *outside* would seem fairly ghostlike and freaky to me.  What I'm concerned about is the following statement:


Ahaa! I am told other Orz *cousins* you are *connected* for *camping*.
I am so right!
It is happiest days not to care about Androsynth anything.
So now we can be *together* for friendly *dessert*.
I am so right. I will tell them again.


So, we're *connected*, we can be *pulled* even if we do not want.

Also, like I mentioned above, the invisible attackers might be another *body-part* of Orz, maybe even one that it can't control.

And finally from Chat log from #StarControl with the Creators (Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III) on  the 17th of October 1998:

Quote
<LordR-man> Fwiffo- What really happened to the Androsynth in sc2?
<Fwiffo> In regards to the Androsynth: They were snagged by the entity who/which projected its fingers into our dimension (which looked to us as the Orz.)


I'd say if TFB thinks it's the Orz: End of Debate.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on August 16, 2003, 02:08:38 am
Is <LordR-man> Fred Ford or Paul Reiche III? Ahh well I like the Orz alot. Say I know: perhaps the Androsinth deserved it!


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Novus on August 18, 2003, 12:49:16 pm
Quote
Is <LordR-man> Fred Ford or Paul Reiche III? Ahh well I like the Orz alot. Say I know: perhaps the Androsinth deserved it!
In this chat, "Fwiffo" was Paul and Fred.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krulle on August 18, 2003, 09:55:09 pm
Another thought about the Orz just occured to me:

What if the ORZ is like an interdimensional jellyfish?
Part of the jellyfish crossing our dimension seem to us like the described 3-d-slice *bubbles* , which appear to us as a "single" Orz.

A jellyfish is not able to control what its' tentacles are doing. The tentacles just try to kill prey whenever they touch it (getting *connected*) and *squeeze* (digest?) the *juice* (energy?) out of the prey (*ngnn*?)  to enjoy the *sauce* (food?). Maybe the Androsynth just touched the Orz-tentacles with their IDF-research, whilst normally the tentacles would stay in their "own" dimension. (Like the Androsynth swimming too deep.)

Getting *pulled* might mean, that the Orz is able to make his tentacles go where he wants them to go, even if he cannot make the tentacles leave places where he does not want them to be (like the jellyfish making his swimming movements, he can make the tentacles come towards his umbrella (is this the right english word?) upwards, but he cannot make them drift away from his body).

Just a thought...



Live long and prosper (wait a minute, I'm in the wrong film)

When the crystal spheres once more rotate into harmonic union
we shall meet again.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: PakoPako on August 20, 2003, 01:14:29 pm
Probably the best euphamism I've ever heard.
As to what TFB said on IRC, that can be subjective. After all, it only "looked to us as the Orz". Are the Orz directly linked to the fingers? Are they colonizers like the Mmrnhrmm? (damnit, I can never spell that right)

Those fish-faces still creep me out. It's not like after playing enough times you start to understand them, or the fact that they seem too happy. I just.. get creeped out. :-X
I'd rather have a conversation with a Mycon than greet the Orz. At I'd know the immediate ramifications.

-=PakoPako=-


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 09, 2003, 10:44:09 pm
Orz Brain: consider this a cybernetic punch to the balls. The Androsynth didn't deserve to be *pulled* by the Orz. Nothing deserves that! (Well, maybe the Druuge...)

Think: You've been a slave for nearly 50 years. Your kind, with the assistance of some very nice humans (which I'm sure the collective Androsynth race would never forget) escape to the stars, find the Vulpeculae constallation and make your home. About 10 years later, you get jumped by these big, ugly green caterpillars and get thwomped into submission again. Ugh. Life goes on as a slave...again. Then, after about another 5 years, just as DF is discovered, you get assailed for the third time, and taken away AGAIN!

Lots of interesting concepts about this. As for the Tobermoon buisness, Jiffa, you're partially mistaken about the Marines. They burn holes into the hull, hop in and do their dirty work, so you would've noticed holes in the hull of the Tobermoon. True, however, that they don't leave bodies lying around, as is proven in SC3. But why would the Orz jump the Supox? They're not researching anything that the Utwig aren't. (I suppose if the Orz attacked the Utwig they'd get their collective asses blown back to primordial soup, but hey.)

Personally, I think the Orz are indeed the ethereal creatures that attacked Buwolski. As I mentioned in the hijacked "portals" thread, the Orz are sticking their proverbial heads through the DF portal, and soon they'll be all the way out. If the Tobermoon were indeed attacked by the Orz, they must've materialized inside the ship, which would lead me to believe that they could then phase in/out at will. Yeeep.

More later, I've got class.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on September 10, 2003, 01:08:36 am
Just a thought which has a connection to sc3 but to yell on me again! Orz say you can't kill them. They cannot be dead. The herald say they are dead, walking dead. do 2+2 and what you get... The orz are the eternal ones spys!


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 10, 2003, 01:49:45 am
I think the Heralds call themselves 'the damned' because they've got no life left except for smushing resistance for the Eternal Ones. They're really not undead. :P


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on September 10, 2003, 02:21:59 am
NECRO-99 consider this a cybernetic smash over the head with a sledge hammer: What I meant is perhaps the Androsinth were unfriendly to the Orz. Perhaps they ordered them out of their space / attacked them / attempted to capture their technology (better drives / armor suits that are stronger than some ships) / threatened them / followed Ur-Quan orders and tried to enslave them or any number of other things that are distinctly unfriendly and that the Orz would consider the actions of *sad cows*. If the Orz could only enter *heavy space* via a single dimensionally fatigued area / portal on the Androsinth home world and the Androsinth attempted to destroy anything coming through (under the impression that it was an invasion force) and the Orz (as it said) could not stay togeather much longer in *pretty space* it could have considered it a life or death matter and resorted to lethal force.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on September 10, 2003, 02:27:01 am
Oh yes about the Tobermoon: Was Buwolski being attacked by a Marine? What attacked Buwolski may have attacked the Tobermoon in the same manner.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 10, 2003, 11:47:58 pm
Uh, Brain(less), why would they then go insane by seeing ghosts? You'll also note that the lander crew mentions something very, VERY pointedly:

Quote
---- REPORT FROM SURFACE ----
XENO-HISTORIAN KILGORE HERE, SIR. WE HAVE CONFIRMED THAT THESE RUINS ARE THE REMNANTS OF THE ANDROSYNTH CULTURE. FROM THE MASS DESTRUCTION WE HAVE WITNESSED, WE CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT THERE WAS SOME KIND OF HUGE LAND WAR HERE WITHIN THE PAST FIVE YEARS; HOWEVER, THERE IS NO, REPEAT, NO SIGNS OF ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT OR INVASION FROM SPACE... JUST A WHOLE MESS OF BUILDINGS SHOT TO PIECES. PROBABLY THE WEIRDEST THING WE HAVE SEEN, OR NOT SEEN, ARE CORPSES... THERE AREN'T ANY! IT'S AS THOUGH SOMETHING APPEARED OUT OF NOWHERE, BLASTED EVERYTHING WITH NUCLEAR BAZOOKAS, THEN GRABBED ALL THE ANDROSYNTH AND DISAPPEARED.


ZERO orbital attacks. None. They simply materialized out of nowhere, *pulled* them, then took their spot. The Orzine fleet didn't just happen to stumble by the Vulpeculae constellation, get jumped by the Androsynth and actually win. (The Orz, might I remind you, get their asses handed to them in melee vs. Androsynth). They appeared after DF was discovered, because the Androsynth allowed themselves to be *smelled*. The synth didn't have a chance to research the Orz equipment, probably because 1) They got *pulled* too quickly and 2) The Orz more than likely didn't use any technology, just the hole the Androsynth ripped and their own freakish selves.

As for the Tobermoon:
Quote
If the Tobermoon were indeed attacked by the Orz, they must've materialized inside the ship, which would lead me to believe that they could then phase in/out at will. Yeeep.

Thanks for re-stating what I said.

Cripes, at least follow the storyline if you're going to try to argue.


Title: [Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on September 11, 2003, 04:04:45 am
Quote
QUOTE: "Uh, Brain(less), why would they then go insane by seeing ghosts? You'll also note that the lander crew mentions something very, VERY pointedly:  

Quote:---- REPORT FROM SURFACE ----
XENO-HISTORIAN KILGORE HERE, SIR. WE HAVE CONFIRMED THAT THESE RUINS ARE THE REMNANTS OF THE ANDROSYNTH CULTURE. FROM THE MASS DESTRUCTION WE HAVE WITNESSED, WE CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT THERE WAS SOME KIND OF HUGE LAND WAR HERE WITHIN THE PAST FIVE YEARS; HOWEVER, THERE IS NO, REPEAT, NO SIGNS OF ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT OR INVASION FROM SPACE... JUST A WHOLE MESS OF BUILDINGS SHOT TO PIECES. PROBABLY THE WEIRDEST THING WE HAVE SEEN, OR NOT SEEN, ARE CORPSES... THERE AREN'T ANY! IT'S AS THOUGH SOMETHING APPEARED OUT OF NOWHERE, BLASTED EVERYTHING WITH NUCLEAR BAZOOKAS, THEN GRABBED ALL THE ANDROSYNTH AND DISAPPEARED.




ZERO orbital attacks. None. They simply materialized out of nowhere, *pulled* them, then took their spot."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

How do you come to that conclusion? It seems to me that all this means is that the Orz don't attack planets like most races. Instead of wasting time doing an orbital bombardment through shields and heavy fleet resistance they just open DF portals to the planets surface and extend their ghost tentacles through / send marines. It does not mean that:
Quote
"They simply materialized out of nowhere, *pulled* them, then took their spot."



I don't see how this in any way disproves the senario that the Andrsinth meet the Orz fleet, the Androsinth are hostile, the Orz attack (and destroy) the Androsinth fleet with overwhelming numbers, the Orz attack the Androsinth home world via DF portals.

Damn, if your going to argue at least make some sense.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Death 999 on September 11, 2003, 08:45:05 am
Well, the numbers would have to be pretty freaking overwhelming for the Orz to be able to beat the Androsynth in a ship combat war.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 12, 2003, 12:27:36 am
The only way the Orz *smelled* the Androsynth was because the Androsynth opened a DF portal.
On the surface of their own homeworld. No other way for the Orz to even DETECT this phase of reality.
Ahem. I doubt, though it is possible, that the Orz Nemesis (or the Guardian) aren't worth the base atoms they're comprised of when it comes to atmospheric flight/fights. It would be much easier to shove a couple ten-thousand Orz through the portal quickly than risk sending their ships through. The Orz are bastards, but not stupid. :P
Plus, the records started getting crazy, this is assumed to mean that the Androsynth *saw* the Orz. I think that, due to the "sleek effiency" (as put by Lukipela) of the Androsynth, they would've mentioned these ships in their records. They're not idiots either.
Also: Interstellar wars leaves bits of exploded ships scattered about, perhaps in orbit or those that have fallen to the surface. Do you find any debris in space, or any ship debris on the surface? No.

The Orz attack planets when they *smell* other races. They can't just go looking around for someone to jump, sneak up on em and whack em. They're kinda like guided missiles: they'll blow the hell out of stuff, but you need to point them first. The Androsynth unwittingly turned on a homing beacon as it were, so, they fell to the Orz via Dimentional-Fatigue-Driven Planetary Assault. No ships, no advanced warning...no way to fight back. The Ur-Quan don't even know about the Orz, and to counter the argument I can already hear coming,
"How do YOU know the Ur-Quan dont know about the Orz?"
They haven't tried to enslave them yet. The Kohr-Ah simply stumble upon them and annihilate them (yay!) when the Cleansing starts. If they DID have their fleet, the 'Quans would certainly know about it, and if the Androsynth ran into them in space somewhere, they'd tell their masters.

How, might I inquire, would the Orz go about putting their fleet into hyperspace without the Androsynth DF portal? I'll tell you, they DIDN'T. The Orz put their *heavy* fleet in once the Androsynth are gone.  
And for God's sake, its AndrosYnth, there's no I in it. Nothing I hate worse than arguing with someone that can't spell. >:(
Oh, as for making sense: I do. You don't. This isn't a hypothetical thing, what happened to the Androsynth. Its just unknown where they went. We KNOW the Orz did something, just not what.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Yehat_Sympathizer on September 12, 2003, 02:37:56 am
Maybe the Androsynth were wiped out BECAUSE they had ships that were good against the ORZ?

If the Orz are all one entity, maybe it felt threatened by somebody trying to move the rock it was under? kind of like a snake or something...

FF and PR3 intended something to happen to you when you take the vindicator into hyberspace with a nemesis on it - for the same reason, perhaps?


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on September 12, 2003, 05:44:29 am
Quote
The only way the Orz *smelled* the Androsynth was because the Androsynth opened a DF portal.  
On the surface of their own homeworld. No other way for the Orz to even DETECT this phase of reality.


Hmmmm. So the Androsynth find a precursor artifact that could do most anything from making lethal viruses to exploding to opening portals to other dimensions that are inhabited by fish like aliens that like to eat Androsynth for breakfast and decide to test it on the surface their home world? Smart!

Also I was always under the impression that planets generally orbited around a star. However the portal, which is just a tear in space, would not. So any portal created on a planets surface would only stay there a few seconds. Unless of course the Orz moved the portal with the planet. Which just brings me back to my other theory:

If the Orz could only enter *heavy space* via a single dimensionally fatigued area / portal on the Androsynth home world and the Androsynth attempted to destroy anything coming through (under the impression that it was an invasion force) and the Orz (as it said) could not stay together much longer in *pretty space* it could have considered it a life or death matter and resorted to lethal force.

Also I was under the impression that the Androsynth were interested in DF to make a faster starship drive. Which means their the portal would have been created somewhere out in space. You know like in front of a starship?

Quote
The Orz attack planets when they *smell* other races. They can't just go looking around for someone to jump, sneak up on em and whack em. They're kinda like guided missiles: they'll blow the hell out of stuff, but you need to point them first. The Androsynth unwittingly turned on a homing beacon as it were, so, they fell to the Orz via Dimentional-Fatigue-Driven Planetary Assault.


(1) Androsynth ARE human or very close to humans. Which means the Orz would have killed the humans to.
(2) The Orz repeatedly state in conversation that they can smell you, i.e.:
Quote
I am *expanding!* It is so much *squishy* to *smell* you!


AND

Quote
Uh... hi there. Nice to see you again... I think.
That is *funny*. You think you *see* Orz but Orz are not *light reflections*.
Maybe you think Orz are *many bubbles* too. It is such a joke.
Orz are not *many bubbles* like *campers*. Orz are just Orz.
I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*.
My *fingers* reach through into *heavy space* and you *see* *Orz bubbles*
but it is really *fingers*.
Maybe you do not even *smell*? That is sad.
*Smelling* *pretty colors* is the best *game*.


(3) When you ally with the Orz a large group of them go to your starbase:
Quote
We have been invaded by an alien race calling themselves the `Orz', though so far the invasion is a friendly one.
The fishlike creatures have been stomping around the base in their robotic walking exoskeletons
which look like combat vac-suits, if you ask me.
Based on the summary reports I've seen on their `Nemesis' ship design, I have but a single comment:
I like it!
I'd say we have quite a nasty little surprise in store for the Ur-Quan the next time you tangle with them.


Are you saying that even though they are in close proximity to humans and mingling freely with them that they still can't smell them?

Quote
Also: Interstellar wars leaves bits of exploded ships scattered about, perhaps in orbit or those that have fallen to the surface. Do you find any debris in space, or any ship debris on the surface? No.


Really? So what do you think actually DID happened to the Androsynth fleet? The Orz just pulled them? But wait, I would have thought they would just have pulled the Androsynth from inside the ships.

Quote
The Ur-Quan don't even know about the Orz, and to counter the argument I can already hear coming,  
"How do YOU know the Ur-Quan don't know about the Orz?"  
They haven't tried to enslave them yet. The Kohr-Ah simply stumble upon them and annihilate them (yay!) when the Cleansing starts. If they DID have their fleet, the 'Quans would certainly know about it, and if the Androsynth ran into them in space somewhere, they'd tell their masters.


I see. Consider this: the only time you see an Ur-Quan outside of their warzone is when ONE ship comes to investigate Unnervalt. When the Yehat have a civil war do they come and restore order? No. When the Utwig and Suppox go home with vastly reduced fleets do they go and enslave them? No. When the Earth starbase runs out of fuel do they come and resupply them? No. When the Androsynth cease communication due to being wiped out do they come investigate? Guess not or they would know about the Orz. And your telling me that when they receive a report of an alien race that can destroy dreadnoughts like tissue paper they are going to lose their war with the Kohr-Ah to go and try to enslave them? I don't think so.

Quote
And for God's sake, its AndrosYnth, there's no I in it. Nothing I hate worse than arguing with someone that can't spell.  
Oh, as for making sense: I do. You don't. This isn't a hypothetical thing, what happened to the Androsynth. Its just unknown where they went.


I am eternally grateful for pointing out that extraordinary pertinent thing. I wish to apologize from the bottom of my heart for any distress this may have caused you.

Also I dislike arguing with someone who is apparently incapable of following something to it's logical conclusion.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krulle on September 12, 2003, 01:18:54 pm
Okay, my suggestions to make it more complicated:

The Orz are living in another dimension, and they were not able to *smell* this one.
They are not alone in their dimension, there could be some dangerous animals (maybe parasites) living there, which are also able to *slide*. When the Androsynth opened that DF-portal, these animals came and spread like a disease throughout the Androsynth. When the Orz found out what happened, they *pulled* the Synths to protect this reality from the evil ones. They do not whish you to become aware of what happened as that means to become visible (*smellalbe*) to the parasites.
But since their own dimesion seems rather full, they do not return, partly to ensure that noone will reopen a portal.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on September 12, 2003, 05:03:00 pm
Seems like a nice theory that makes the orz look like the good guys. Ofcourse it can explain why they left in sc3 but it doesn't explain why they attacked you [and why the Heralds and the eternal one came( or maybe they are from the same dimention where the eternal ones/the Heralds are]).

I think that they attacked you in sc3(related to this theory only) because of what happened to the universe. Portals appears out of no where and maybe they were afraid that you will find one ( after all you have the ONLY ship who can get there until the universe will be balanced again) and then another races will discover it after you.

But ofcourse it is just a theory, maybe the theory of Necro is the correct one. But then again, all are right. If not why we are still talking about it?

P.S what happened to the dancing avatar krulle?  ;)


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krulle on September 12, 2003, 05:35:56 pm
Dancing Avatar?
I tried several other Icons (from different Webpages). At first, they showed correctly, but when i came back after an hier or so, the icon did not reload. That's why I'm a bunny again. At least the Spathi are still afraid of me....


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 12, 2003, 07:03:16 pm
Quote
Hmmmm. So the Androsynth find a precursor artifact that could do most anything from making lethal viruses to exploding to opening portals to other dimensions that are inhabited by fish like aliens that like to eat Androsynth for breakfast and decide to test it on the surface their home world? Smart!


They didn't have a clue as to the potential side effects of the Artifact's power. Here, maybe this will help: You're an Androsynth, sick of his vessel's slow normal form. Upon planetfall on a routine search mission, you find an artifact wrought by the Precursors. Naturally, you'd take it home. Your Xenotechs research it, and find out that it can make rips in the fabric of space. Logcial conclusion: Rips in space = Teleportation = Faster transportation for the Guardians.
Making viruses? Exploding? What the hell are you talking about?

Quote
Also I was always under the impression that planets generally orbited around a star. However the portal, which is just a tear in space, would not. So any portal created on a planets surface would only stay there a few seconds. Unless of course the Orz moved the portal with the planet.

Yes they do. Yes it is. They probably did. Hmm, if you think about it, if the Androsynth tore a hole in space, it'd keep tearing as the planet moved and as long as the DF device was on, wouldn't it? That'd make it big enough for those uglies to stick their heads through.

Quote
If the Orz could only enter *heavy space* via a single dimensionally fatigued area / portal on the Androsynth home world and the Androsynth attempted to destroy anything coming through (under the impression that it was an invasion force) and the Orz (as it said) could not stay together much longer in *pretty space* it could have considered it a life or death matter and resorted to lethal force.


How do you kill something you can't hit? They were "poltergeists" when they came through the portal, this is why the computer searches were so frantically looking for ghosts, wights, etc. I also really doubt that the Orz were going to be friendly if they came through without incident (which is most likely what they did.)

Quote
Also I was under the impression that the Androsynth were interested in DF to make a faster starship drive. Which means their the portal would have been created somewhere out in space. You know like in front of a starship?


Hypothetical situation: It's the year 1942. The German Army comes out with a prototype weapon/mode of transportation, the first of it's kind. They call it a V-1 "rocket". Are you going to, without further research and/or testing, slap the first rocket ever built in the world on your back and go for a fly? Didn't think so. The Androsynth would have wanted to do more research before they messed around with DF and ships. I note a lack of starbase (deserted or not) around Eta Vulpeculae, so I don't think they were trying it out in space quite yet, though I bet they were going to eventually.

Quote
(1) Androsynth ARE human or very close to humans. Which means the Orz would have killed the humans to.
(2) The Orz repeatedly state in conversation that they can smell you, i.e.:  


1. The Androsynth race are clones. Smell one, smell 'em all. Humans, who have genetic diversity, on the other hand, don't all smell alike.
2. I know. The Orz, as I've stated before, are bastards, but they're not stupid. If you saw a ship six times larger than two of yours put together and a fleet following it, are you going to blatantly attack it? It's like in SC3 with the Supox. They probably jumped them while they were in the Bubble, blew them apart w/ Marines, then dragged the Blade to Muhlifain, their Kessari *pretty space* base of ops. They're just waiting to kill you, I.E. the end of SC3.

Quote
Really? So what do you think actually DID happened to the Androsynth fleet? The Orz just pulled them? But wait, I would have thought they would just have pulled the Androsynth from inside the ships.

I really don't know where the Androsynth fleet went. Couple of things could've happened.
1: The Orz *pulled* the Androsynth from everywhere, including their ships, and left them to drift off somewhere in space. Which I find odd, since you never find any Guardians floating around.
2: The Orz *pull* the Androsynth, then note that some of their technology could be of use, such as the Guardian's dualform. They take the ships afterward and research them themselves.
3 (most logical): The Orz begin their assault on Eta Vulpeculae. The homeworld dwellers, scared to death, send out distress signals to space. The Guardians are the first to hear them, and come Blazing home. They land, lock their ships away somewhere were the enemy (whatever it is) won't find them, and then promptly get *pulled* themselves.

Quote
Consider this: the only time you see an Ur-Quan outside of their warzone is when ONE ship comes to investigate Unnervalt. When the Yehat have a civil war do they come and restore order? No. When the Utwig and Suppox go home with vastly reduced fleets do they go and enslave them? No. When the Earth starbase runs out of fuel do they come and resupply them? No. When the Androsynth cease communication due to being wiped out do they come investigate? Guess not or they would know about the Orz. And your telling me that when they receive a report of an alien race that can destroy dreadnoughts like tissue paper they are going to lose their war with the Kohr-Ah to go and try to enslave them? I don't think so.


True, only in Unzervalt do you see one. When you spark the Yehat rebellion, the Kzer-Za are just a bit busy with their Doctrinal Conflict. You'll note that the Androsynth opened their portal and got *pulled* within the past five years, according to Xenotech Killgore in the lander quotes. The Doctrinal Conflict starts as the game starts, meaning the Ur-Quan would've had time to come and assist the Androsynth. As for "destroying Dreadnoughts like tissue paper", the Androsynth wouldn't know that. Their Guardians are more than a match for the Nemesis.

Quote
I am eternally grateful for pointing out that extraordinary pertinent thing. I wish to apologize from the bottom of my heart for any distress this may have caused you.

Also I dislike arguing with someone who is apparently incapable of following something to it's logical conclusion.


1: It wasn't pertinent, it was just pissing me off.
2: Explain the logic of your logic. I'm following the way the game goes. As I stated before, this isn't a hypothetical situation; it's what happened. Whether or not the game follows logic, I don't know. All I know is I'm following the way the game goes.

BTW: This is a really good argument, and I haven't had one of those in a long time. So, seriously: Thanks! :)


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 12, 2003, 07:19:42 pm
This is my own personal view on DF and the way it works, so take it however you'd like.

Picture space being a thick piece of cloth, and a ship being a needle. Space as we know it is a smooth and ordered thing. Pushing a needle through one end of fabric to the other is like traveling through space.

B_______________________________________________      A
  --------------------------------------------<=====================
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pushing through something like such would take a bit of time. DF, as I see it, would "fold" space, allowing the ships to move much faster from point to point.

Now, instead of pushing an I through an I, think of it as pushing an I through an S (I tried to draw this, no avail). It's the same amount of space, but folded as it were, to make travel easier.

This is just my concept of DF. If someone else has one, I'd love to see what it is! :)


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on September 12, 2003, 09:47:19 pm
Quote
The Orz are living in another dimension, and they were not able to *smell* this one.
They are not alone in their dimension, there could be some dangerous entities (maybe parasites) living there, which are also able to *slide*. When the Androsynth opened that DF-portal, these entities came and spread like a disease throughout the Androsynth. When the Orz found out what happened, they *pulled* the Synths to protect this reality from the evil ones. They do not whish you to become aware of what happened as that means to become visible (*smellalbe*) to the parasites.
But since their own dimesion seems rather full, and they are having trouble keeping togeather there, they do not return, partly to ensure that no one will reopen a portal.


Darn good idea! Wish I could have thought of it. ;D OK this is my new official theory. Allow me to expand it a little:
Quote
Quote: "HE DID A LOT OF DAMAGE TO THE ANDROSYNTH'S COMPUTER BEFORE WE STOPPED HIM, AND I GUESS HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF IN THE PROCESS. HE'S CUT UP PRETTY BADLY. YOU KNOW, IT'S STRANGE, HE MUST HAVE HURT HIMSELF WORSE THAN I THOUGHT. NOW, WHEN I LOOK AT HIM, IT SEEMS LIKE HE HAS EVEN MORE CUTS THAN JUST A FEW MINUTES AGO, AND BOY, IS HE SCREAMING! "

The scientest fellow on the planet was obviously being killed by one of the seminvisible ghost/energy things that did in the androsinth. I don't see what that has to do with the orz.
Seems to me the reason the Orz attack you if you ask to many questions about the Androsinth is for the good of your species because - as demonstrated by the incident with the with the scientist and as the Arilou say later on - if you find out to much about the ghost/energy creatures then they can *smell*, ahem, I mean sense you and then they would kill you and likely move on to the rest of your species and the Orz figure that if you are so persistently interested in getting the information that if they don't kill you, you will find out some other way and get yourself and everything around / related to you killed and destroyed.
So why is it that everyone thinks the Orz are evil?


OK now were talking!

Quote
They didn't have a clue as to the potential side effects of the Artifact's power. Here, maybe this will help: You're an Androsynth, sick of his vessel's slow normal form. Upon planetfall on a routine search mission, you find an artifact wrought by the Precursors. Naturally, you'd take it home. Your Xenotechs research it, and find out that it can make rips in the fabric of space. Logcial conclusion: Rips in space = Teleportation = Faster transportation for the Guardians.  
Making viruses? Exploding? What the hell are you talking about?


What I am saying is that if I found an alien artifact that might do most anything and could be extremely dangerous I wouldn't take it home with me. I'd test it on a starbase or a ship or an uninhabited planet or a moonbase. I would not take it home to my most important population center until I compleatly understood it. And I would think the Androsynth would be at least this smart.

Quote
Yes they do. Yes it is. They probably did. Hmm, if you think about it, if the Androsynth tore a hole in space, it'd keep tearing as the planet moved and as long as the DF device was on, wouldn't it? That'd make it big enough for those uglies to stick their heads through.
How do you kill something you can't hit? They were "poltergeists" when they came through the portal, this is why the computer searches were so frantically looking for ghosts, wights, etc. I also really doubt that the Orz were going to be friendly if they came through without incident (which is most likely what they did.


You have a point. But how do you know that the Orz was ghostly when it first came through? That may just have been it's attack form.

Quote
3 (most logical): The Orz begin their assault on Eta Vulpeculae. The homeworld dwellers, scared to death, send out distress signals to space. The Guardians are the first to hear them, and come Blazing home. They land, lock their ships away somewhere were the enemy (whatever it is) won't find them, and then promptly get *pulled* themselves.


Then wouldn't they have also signald the Ur-Quan?

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2: The Orz *pull* the Androsynth, then note that some of their technology could be of use, such as the Guardian's dualform. They take the ships afterward and research them themselves.
3 (most logical): The Orz begin their assault on Eta Vulpeculae. The homeworld dwellers, scared to death, send out distress signals to space. The Guardians are the first to hear them, and come Blazing home. They land, lock their ships away somewhere were the enemy (whatever it is) won't find them, and then promptly get *pulled* themselves.


Makes sense. Also accounts for where a starbase might have gone. But I dought the whole Androsynth fleet would have gone home and LANDED.

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1. The Androsynth race are clones. Smell one, smell 'em all. Humans, who have genetic diversity, on the other hand, don't all smell alike.
2. I know. The Orz, as I've stated before, are bastards, but they're not stupid. If you saw a ship six times larger than two of yours put together and a fleet following it, are you going to blatantly attack it? It's like in SC3 with the Supox. They probably jumped them while they were in the Bubble, blew them apart w/ Marines, then dragged the Blade to Muhlifain, their Kessari *pretty space* base of ops. They're just waiting to kill you, I.E. the end of SC3.


Good idea. I never thought of it that way. Still after rubing elbows with the 2000+ crew of the starbase I figure they could work out a general *smell* for humans. Or they could have just killed everyone on the starbase with marines.


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True, only in Unzervalt do you see one. When you spark the Yehat rebellion, the Kzer-Za are just a bit busy with their Doctrinal Conflict. You'll note that the Androsynth opened their portal and got *pulled* within the past five years, according to Xenotech Killgore in the lander quotes. The Doctrinal Conflict starts as the game starts, meaning the Ur-Quan would've had time to come and assist the Androsynth. As for "destroying Dreadnoughts like tissue paper", the Androsynth wouldn't know that. Their Guardians are more than a match for the Nemesis.


So your saying that when the Synth went off the air / sent a distress call the Ur-Quan did not come investigate? When the Androsynth went off the air wouldn't the 'Quans have thought something funny was happening. You know, like a slave rebelion?

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This is my own personal view on DF and the way it works, so take it however you'd like.

Picture space being a thick piece of cloth, and a ship being a needle. Space as we know it is a smooth and ordered thing. Pushing a needle through one end of fabric to the other is like traveling through space.

B_______________________________________________ A
  --------------------------------------------<=====================
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------

Pushing through something like such would take a bit of time. DF, as I see it, would "fold" space, allowing the ships to move much faster from point to point.

Now, instead of pushing an I through an I, think of it as pushing an I through an S (I tried to draw this, no avail). It's the same amount of space, but folded as it were, to make travel easier.

This is just my concept of DF. If someone else has one, I'd love to see what it is!


Thats hyperspace. I figure DF is more like punching a hole in space to another universe.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 12, 2003, 11:09:00 pm
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What I am saying is that if I found an alien artifact that might do most anything and could be extremely dangerous I wouldn't take it home with me. I'd test it on a starbase or a ship or an uninhabited planet or a moonbase. I would not take it home to my most important population center until I compleatly understood it. And I would think the Androsynth would be at least this smart.


Yes, the Androsynth are smart, but one has to remember: The only planet that the 'synth had managed to colonize was Eta Vulpeculae II. They discovered something that they probably figured would give them some sort of edge. I mean, they'd see it and say, "It's Precursor! It's got to be good, right?....right?" I know that in SC1, whenever I found a Precursor artifact I'd dance for joy. They were probably so exuberant that they brought the darn thing straight home. Remember, Androsynth are modeled after humans, and we can collectively do some dumb things from time to time...this one just cost them dearly.

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You have a point. But how do you know that the Orz was ghostly when it first came through? That may just have been it's attack form.


Were the Orz *light reflections* when they came through the portal, there would have been frantic searches on the Androsynth computers for "Icthyoids, Sauhagians, etc." rather than "Poltergeists, Reality Abhoritions, etc."

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Then wouldn't they have also signaled the Ur-Quan?

Yes, and I forgot to mention it. Thanks.

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Makes sense. Also accounts for where a starbase might have gone. But I dought the whole Androsynth fleet would have gone home and LANDED.

Hey, if my homeworld was under attack and I was flying the best my race had to offer for combat capabilities, I'd come flying like a bat out of hell to help. Something that goes against my prior statement about no noticed wrecks of Guardians on the surface: Perhaps, the Guardians on return to home, were so zealous to land and assist that some crashed into each other during reentry and flamed into the cities, also causing a bit of destruction. Guess that might look like orbital bombardment, but I too doubt that the entire fleet would've gotten into the ship bunkers safe and sound.

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Good idea. I never thought of it that way. Still after rubing elbows with the 2000+ crew of the starbase I figure they could work out a general *smell* for humans. Or they could have just killed everyone on the starbase with marines.


1: Remember: it's the year 2550. There will be humans with very diverse cultural backgrounds, males and females smell different I'd bet (remember, Androsynth were only males[neuters, really]), there'd be people with genetic enhancements, cybernetic parts, and I'd also wager that Espers smell VERY different.
2: To quote the Lk, "All creatures can be expected to betray others when it meets their needs." Basically, the Orz see no reason to betray us yet. They'd rather sniff around this side of reality a little while longer and look for a race that is easier prey than one with a huge Precursor vessel (it wound up being the Supox.).

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So your saying that when the Synth went off the air / sent a distress call the Ur-Quan did not come investigate? When the Androsynth went off the air wouldn't the 'Quans have thought something funny was happening. You know, like a slave rebelion?

From http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/sc1/andrtech.shtml:
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Androsynth "animosity" towards Earthlings is well-documented; the clones' wellspring of emotion has fueled 77 years of hostility. They adhere to Ur-Quan discipline gladly, as the Hierarchy's warmongering sates the Androsynth's lust for revenge.


They wouldn't want to revolt. They LIKED the Kzer-Za, because their doctrines fit theirs nearly to a T. It just shows that the Ur-Quan's are bastards as well. I mean, they never came to refuel the Earth Starbase, so they either simply ignored the Androsynth or figured they could handle themselves.

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Thats hyperspace. I figure DF is more like punching a hole in space to another universe.


I'm sorry, I totally excluded one part of my theory, so yes, that one looks pretty dumb.

I failed to mention  the aspect and idea of it all is three dimentional, and quite hard to describe on here unless I could do some CAD drawings and slap em on here. Hmmm...ah.
Think of the fabric of space as four-dimentional, and the *depth* of the 3-D depth carries on forever, but not in the same *space*. The concept of the fabric goes forever, but there are layers to it. Picture, if you will, the universe as a TON of straight lines grouped tightly together. The lines horizontal with ours would be the same reality, but different parts of our reality. The lines above or below would be different realities, all with their own types of Hyperspace, etc. Shifting into hyperspace would be like turning left or right, you'd stay on the same plane of existence. When you shift dimentions, you head up or down and head into quasispace (*above*) or into *heavy* space (*below*). Sorry if it's a little cryptic (a drawing would make it better), but it's how I see alternate realities coexisting together. I have no idea what would be *left* or *right* of our Material Plane, but I'm a wanderluster so I'd LOVE to find out. Hmm...*switches majors to Alternative Physics with a minor in Philosophy*


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on September 13, 2003, 01:15:20 am
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Were the Orz *light reflections* when they came through the portal, there would have been frantic searches on the Androsynth computers for "Icthyoids, Sauhagians, etc." rather than "Poltergeists, Reality Abhoritions, etc."


"Poltergeists, Reality Abhoritions, etc." aren't the only searches. There is also a search for THE `MOSQUITO MANGE' which sounds a good deal like an attempt to figure out what one of the Orz best fit * words* meant. Of coarse there would be no need to search for "Icthyoids, Sauhagians, etc." because they could ask the Orz those questions and I gathered from the game that no other race of that varity had been encountered. Once the Orz went hostile and turned ghostly though they would natuarlly try to figure out what was going on.


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They wouldn't want to revolt. They LIKED the Kzer-Za, because their doctrines fit theirs nearly to a T. It just shows that the Ur-Quan's are bastards as well. I mean, they never came to refuel the Earth Starbase, so they either simply ignored the Androsynth or figured they could handle themselves.


I see. So you now agree that if they encountered the Orz they may have reported it back to the Ur-Quan / sent a distress call and the 'Quans did nothing? Furthermore the lander team says within the last 5 years. They do not say 5 years ago. So it could have been only 6 months or a year ago and so while the Ur-Quan were having their war. Also while there may be some spot in the game that says the Doctrinal War starts right at the begining of the game, I do not remember it and would appreciate if you would point out where it says this.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Lukipela on September 13, 2003, 03:58:49 am
Sorry to jump into the discussion at htis late stage, but I'd like to make one point about the doctrinal war.

From the Commanders comment : "The Ur-Quan were supposed to resupply this base at regular, five year intervals but we haven't received anything in almost eight years!"

One can deduce that the Doctrinal war has been going on for at least 3 years. The Quans run a lean and efficent operation. They keep their slaves in line, and they keep an eye on them. Otherwise the whole idea of an slave empire is a bit of a shamble.

So the Doctrinal wars do definetly start before the game starts. However, they could have started any time after the last resupply operation, so that gives us a timespan of 8-3 years before the game starts.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: bigfoot256 on September 13, 2003, 06:02:53 am
Not necessarily. Perhaps they had intercepted radio transmissions from the Kohr-Ah, and were merely getting their forces ready for battle. Just a theory...


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Spurk on September 13, 2003, 06:41:39 am
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The Quans run a lean and efficent operation. They keep their slaves in line, and they keep an eye on them. Otherwise the whole idea of an slave empire is a bit of a shamble.

Assuming your reasoning is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it), does that mean the Kzer-Za have been leaving ships behind to tend to their other slave races? In other words, are all the races that have been enslaved or enthralled half-way around the galaxy still being cared for?

If they're not, then any race that was slave-shielded made a poor choice. You should be a thrall so that way when the Quan leave, you're free to do whatever.

If they are, then that would seem to weaken the Kzer-Za nearly as much as the Shofixti's blaze of glory. The Kohr-Ah have no reason to leave any ships behind and so you'd think they'd be superior regardless of the Shofixti. And what's to guarantee that the distant thralls don't overthrow the few Ur-Quans sticking around?

Just something I'm wondering.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Lord_Azrael on September 13, 2003, 03:43:25 pm
Okay. Personally, I think it goes like this.

1. Androsynth find Precursor/whatever DF device.

2. They take it back to their homeworld, and probably thinking 'If anything bad happens we can contain it' they activate it.

3. Orz 'Ghosts' begin to appear, Androsynth begin searching for various things. (Ghosts, Wights, Wraiths etc.) Orz begin to *Smell* the Synth

4. The Androsynth send out a distress call to their ships.

5. Searchs intensify.

6. Orz begin to *pull* the synth.

7. Guardians land on planet, crews are *pulled* by the Orz.

?- Orz *pull* Guardians?

8. Androsynth begin to go mad with their searches. Orz begin to *Pull* more rapidly.

9. Androsynth are finally all *pulled* by the Orz.

10. Orz control Vulpuculae systems.

____
Now for some conjecture on my part.

Orz only seem to attack when they  *smell* enough. Maybe Orz think like this.

Small *Smells* - ignore
Medium *Smells* - watch
Large *Smells* - threaten
Extreme *Smells* -ATTACK!

Now, perhaps Humankind is a small *smell* and when any race opens a DF Portal they become 'Large' and when they begin to act hostile they go 'extreme' and the Orz *Pull* them.

Now, perhaps Orz don't see like that...

as we know small dimensional fatigue spots (SC III) attract Orz. Maybe DF spots, or portals or whatever act like beacons which the Orz investigate. And, if the Orz feel threatened or whatever they attack.


Perhaps it could be entirely different. I don't know...


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Sage on September 13, 2003, 04:28:24 pm
The Mosquito Mange has nothing to do with Orz best-fits, as far as I can tell. According to my research (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22MOSQUITO+MANGE%22), Mosquito Mange, also known as graviconcentrates, is an area of abnormally high gravity on a planet surface. Imagine what it would be like if one of those spots happened to appear right below someone? One word. Squish!

The Orz first began *smell* this *level* when the Androsynth started to make *slippery places*. They may not have necessarily come through the DF portals the Synth made, rather when they became aware of this dimension/*time*/*space*/*level*, they started poking *fingers* through to have a look. Since they've already told us that what we see of them is not the totality of the Orz, it makes sense to assume that those ghosts were the Orz themselves, though not quite as "here" as they are when Zelnick encounters them.

Whatever the Synth saw of the Orz *fingers* was either chunks of the Orz; like an eye, a fin, or something like that; or more likely, a somewhat transparent variant of the Orz, or an aforementioned chunk. In either case, the Synths had every reason to freak out.

The whole idea that the Ur-Quan slave empire somehow manages to spread across half of a galaxy and remains intact is a bothersome one. I can't help but wonder how the hell the Kzer-Za have kept thier slaves in check (if at all)?

Also, on the topic of the length of the Doctrinal Conflict:

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Well what about the Ur-Quan? What are they up to?

Soon after the Ur-Quan defeated the Yehat and imprisoned the Syreen in Betelgeuse
their siblings arrived to initiate the Doctrinal Conflict.
This battle continues as we speak.

So, they've been at this for approximately 20 years? Seems a bit long, but considering this is a ritual battle for an important artifact, it might be logical. Then again, I can't help but wonder how the Zoq-Fot-Pik could keep themselves hidden away for so long.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Lord_Azrael on September 13, 2003, 05:55:33 pm
What are the Synth's personality like?

It may have something to do with being *pulled* or why they activated the portal on their homeworld.

If anyone's played MoO 3 the Antarans activated the first dimensional portal as far away from their empire as possible. And then a bit further.

Cause, if the Synth had a personality like "We don't need no stinkin security" then, it's pretty obvious why they activated it on their homeworld.

Personally, I think they thought if they couldn't handle what happened to Kzer-Za could...


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Culture20 on September 14, 2003, 05:16:13 am
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Whatever the Synth saw of the Orz *fingers* was either chunks of the Orz; like an eye, a fin, or something like that; or more likely, a somewhat transparent variant of the Orz, or an aforementioned chunk. In either case, the Synths had every reason to freak out.

Considering that the *fingers* probably need to remain submerged in liquid ethenol while in *heavy space*, I'd think the *fingers* would first appear as dead fish falling from the sky...
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The whole idea that the Ur-Quan slave empire somehow manages to spread across half of a galaxy and remains intact is a bothersome one. I can't help but wonder how the hell the Kzer-Za have kept thier slaves in check (if at all)?

Well, The Sa-Matra might have allowed this;  What if it's sensor and weapons-range was on a galactic scale?  The slave races would feel kind of like the losers of a traditional war where the enemy developed for the first time not only an atomic weapon, the computer, and radar, but a thermo nuclear Inter-continental ballistic missile, satellites to guide the missile and keep track of what you're doing, and the internet (one wrong move and POW, right to the moon!).
If it was the Sa-Matra that kept half the galaxy in line via threats, then there might be a lot of Battle Thralls setting themselves up as local warlords above the fallow slaves.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Orz Brain on September 15, 2003, 04:49:00 am
When the Kzer-Za leave an area and the usefulness of the battle thralls runs out they probably just slave shield them.


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Considering that the *fingers* probably need to remain submerged in liquid ethenol while in *heavy space*, I'd think the *fingers* would first appear as dead fish falling from the sky...  


Perhaps the Orz stuck it's toes in first...  ;D


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Sage on September 15, 2003, 01:31:25 pm
If the Sa-Matra had such a range, then the Ur-Quan would have no reason to bring it to the front line against the Chenjesu and Mmrnhrmm. The Chmmr would be aware of a superweapon regardless, but would never have seen it.

For that matter, if it had such incredible range, wouldn't the Ur-Quan just blast Zelnick upon return to Unzervalt when he encountered the Dreadnaught in orbit? Theoretically it could apply to anywhere the Ur-Quan were encountered, but it seems more logical to do at the confirmed "nest".

Perhaps the reason they were so slow to deploy it had something to do with how slow the craft travels?


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krulle on September 15, 2003, 03:02:33 pm
The Androsynth are clones. As such, if a research facility explodes, killing a thousand, you can quite easily replace them (by cloning even more Synths). Maybe this has become a habbit of them to not think about security, since all are equal (genetically speaking) and can be replaced by equal ones. Therefor i can imagine that they would bring a possibly very dangerous artifact to their homeworld. Hey, even you bring that dammit dangerous bomb into the solar system. Even the wearers of the mask do not make such stupid decissions (although they plan to use it eventually). Imagine some kind of student just pushed a button to test the reaction during research on the Spacestation. You'd never know what happened....

See ya...


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 15, 2003, 06:25:41 pm
Sage: The Kzer-Za didn't use the Sa-Matra against the Vindicator because, at the time, it isn't theirs. If it WAS theirs during the game, they'd simply nuke the Kohr-Ah fleet and call it good. They find the Sa-Matra just as the Kohr-Ah show up, and the two decide to fight over it. Thats why there's both Marauders and Dreadnoughts flying around it. (I think those are the ships that aren't involved in the conflict, they're there to make sure the other doesn't try anything furtive.)

Man, I'll write my reply to Brain later today, I'm still a little 'nuked' myself.  :-X


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krulle on September 15, 2003, 06:59:36 pm
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Sage: The Kzer-Za didn't use the Sa-Matra against the Vindicator because, at the time, it isn't theirs. If it WAS theirs during the game, they'd simply nuke the Kohr-Ah fleet and call it good. They find the Sa-Matra just as the Kohr-Ah show up, and the two decide to fight over it.
Nope, they found the Sa-Matra during the first Doctrinal War. They used it then to prevent their own extinction and won the 1. war. Now they do not use it, because the Sa-Matra is the 'Big Trophy' (translated from Ur-Quan to human by your favourite Melnorme Trade-Master) awarded to the winner of the Second Doctrinal War. And as Trophy it's like Wimbledon (or US-Open), it stands beside the battlefield. After the war, the winner may take the trophy and use it at will.
And the non-usage of the Trophy is in the rules of this ritual combat.
There are guards of both races, because they wish to protect the trophy so that no other race can pick the trophy while the battle stile lasts on (just like any decent tennisplayer would try to prevent the winnerstrophy being stolen by another player who did not win).

And you are playing unfair in the vindicator: You do not win the battle, you simply destroy the prize. Confused players who have nothing to win are not good fighters when it comes to win their match....


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 15, 2003, 10:59:19 pm
I think general Androsynth theory is, "Why worry about death? There's ten million others exactly like me." Pretty much what was stated, but this now brings up an interesting question about Androsynth Cloning Facilities.

When the Androsynth learned something, would they have to go to a Facility to then place their knowledge into the collective genetic "pool" as it were, for the next clone to know?

If this was the case, the newest clones would be Supergenius level by 'synth standards at the time they were "born", but would level off to average intelligence area after a few months and more discoveries were made. And what about the 'synth that "fall behind" on knowledge? Soilent Green? Nah, they're not cannibals...what then... ???
I've got it...they'd relegate the less-than-supergenius 'synth to working in the Cloning Facilities. That way, they'd be able to speak with the newest arrivals, and then glean some knowledge that way, thus bringing them back into the loop, as it were. They'd keep doing this until they'd gained sufficient knowledge as to where they can return to the workforce. This would also mean that ALL Androsynth would have intimate knowledge of the cloning facilities (the old ones from working in them and learning the hard way, the new clones from the "pool"), thus increasing efficiency if a new colony is made. Whoo. :o Tons of things could be put in this knowledge pool; structural notes about buildings, ship to ship tactics, planetary locations...and secrets about DF.

If the new Androsynth don't have a choice about learning what they do learn, there we go. That means that, if the Androsynth are "born" with the knowledge of DF, they are born with an active *scent* and therefore will be able to be *smelled* by the Orz. Poor devils didn't even have a choice.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 15, 2003, 11:01:34 pm
Oh, as an added bit, once I get my college-based webpage up, I'll be scanning a drawing of my theory DF I made and putting it there, that way it'll be easier to understand than what I wrote. ;)


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Culture20 on September 16, 2003, 04:47:31 am
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When the Androsynth learned something, would they have to go to a Facility to then place their knowledge into the collective genetic "pool" as it were, for the next clone to know?

This type of cloning is too similar to the Mycon Cloning.  I'm betting that the Androsynth learn things just like normal humans (albeit faster), and are distinct individuals (who would care about dying, even if there was a "body replacement" waiting).


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krulle on September 16, 2003, 08:48:50 pm
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When the Androsynth learned something, would they have to go to a Facility to then place their knowledge into the collective genetic "pool" as it were, for the next clone to know?

The Androsynth do not have a genetic memory like the Mycon (who seem to dwell and live in the corpses of their ancestors) or the Goa'Uld in Stargate. They are human after all. But their genetic code has been improved so that they are smarter, stronger, faster,... and more efficient than not cloned humans. That's why they learn and research faster. But I suppose their scholar system is quite much better than ours.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Yehat_Sympathizer on September 17, 2003, 05:52:38 am
The Mycon are supposed to be a tool of the precursors that got out of control or something. The Androsynth are a human product, so it is reaonable to expect that the Mycon would be more, well, alien, compared with the androsynth, who are supposed to be just perfected humans. Human technology hasn't reached genetic memory yet :)


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 17, 2003, 10:22:09 pm
True, but theoretically, one could implant knowledge of things on a growing clone. (subliminals would probably do the trick nicely)
It's just me, but I bet that the Androsynth are born adult. My wager, due to their warlike tendencies, would be to let the clone mature in the vat. Keep muscle mass up with electric probes (a la Matrix), and once it's old enough to have the ability to cognate, slap a headset on it (or pipe the information in directly to the tube) from a ROM or something, having it play over and over to the thousands of tubes that the Androsynth all are "born" from. You know, messages that are of common knowledge to all Androsynth. "We hate humans. The Ur-Quans are our masters. The Guardian is our finest achievement for spacefaring capabilities." and so forth. Obviously, as a young clone in the vats, have it taught all the things we're taught in elementary, then high-school, then college level stuff. After it's done, it's released and ready to join the rest of it's kind.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Culture20 on September 18, 2003, 01:14:06 am
That would be a far divergence from Hsien Ho's clones, who (if you read between the lines) were more human(e) than the humans of their time.  The manuals make no mention of indoctrinated learning, or spending 20 years in a cloning vat.  For the 'synth to do such things to their own kind would be akin to the slavery that they fought humans to escape from (and the kind that they tried to develop IDF to escape from).


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Yehat_Sympathizer on September 18, 2003, 01:52:42 am
Actually it's far easier to sympathize with the Androsynth than resent them. Maybe there could be some side quest to find them and make friends with them after version 1.0 is complete.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 18, 2003, 08:17:01 pm
I've never read the direct SC1 manual about Androsynth, so the only thing I've read about them is from the Pages of Now and Forever. Anyone have links?

I guess I've just never seen Androsynth as a nurturing type. Then again, if the concept of a mother-figure never existed...


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Sage on September 18, 2003, 08:28:13 pm
The data on PNF about the SC1 Androsynth seems to be a direct copy of the manual. However I do have a PDF (http://www.customc.net/staff/sage/sc1.pdf) of the manual for your perusal.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 19, 2003, 11:02:04 pm
It's an exact copy. Culture, where'd you come up with the Androsynth being nice? I read Sage's manual, and I didn't see anything. All I know is they took the Baltic Port, but after that collapsed, a few human sympathisizers stole a few ships from Detroit or somewhere and helped them into space.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Culture20 on September 20, 2003, 07:09:12 am
This was discussed quite in length over on the Timewarp forums, and someone (I think UAF) pointed out that in the SC2 manual, the Androsynth took over every orbital and lunar spacestation.  They changed the energy broadcast units into "colossal MASER weapons" which they used only to defend the stations.  They owned the orbital space around Earth, and the Nukes were in the peace vaults (it would take time to get enough out to use against them, although some were probably ready in case a big asteroid was sighted).  The Synth's could have aimed their MASERs at Earth's cities, one by one, ridding themselves of the "hated humans."  Thus, they didn't hate humans; they loved freedom and feared the loss of freedom that most humans had come to represent.

Sage also has an SC2 pdf up:
http://www.customc.net/staff/sage/sc2.pdf
History stuff starts on page 6.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Culture20 on September 20, 2003, 07:11:58 am
Quote
Actually it's far easier to sympathize with the Androsynth than resent them. Maybe there could be some side quest to find them and make friends with them after version 1.0 is complete.

That's something that P&F might have intended for a sequal (and which the Timewarp plot might have (don't know, I purposefully stick my fingers in my ears so that the fun of playing it won't be ruined).


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Krulle on September 22, 2003, 04:11:27 pm
Reading through the manual i found a small text telling about a respected but not very much liked scientist and expert, Prof. Jules Farnsworth. One of his relatives is also well known on earth, Prof. Hubert J. Farnsworth from that pizza-boy-space-opera Futurama.
He is also kinda difficult to work with.

But besides the name..... Well it could just be coincidence....


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 24, 2003, 09:27:28 pm
True, Culture, all they did was fry the incoming ships. Wouldnt the atmosphere bend or diffuse the maser, as it does to lasers? Maybe they tried, gave the people of Berlin, Washington DC, and Shanghai nice suntans, and then, upon realizing that the weapons dont fire through the atmosphere, decided to save the energy for incoming hostiles.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: Death 999 on September 24, 2003, 09:34:23 pm
I think that if it wouldn't work, they'd figure that out before trying.


Title: Re: Whats the deal with the Androsynth?(spoilers)
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 24, 2003, 10:50:37 pm
Well there you go, another reason why they didn't fry Earth.