The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

There's been some talk in the past about the problem with porting SC1 to modern PCs, because the source is lost. However, souce for SC2 was lost to, excepting the 3DO version. Hense my question.

Is the Genesis source for SC1 to be had anywhere and can we petition for it to be released?

(I expect this will be a short lived thread, but the question had to be asked.)

I think this is a fine question and idea.  Though, for some reason I remember someone saying somewhere that the Genesis code was lost as well?

I mean, I have several friends that have played Star Control 1, but never part 2.  Some people just don't give a damn about story, adventure, etc.  But SC1 really appealed to them and they have found memories of it.  A modern day port would rule!

I love the story and adventure of SC 2.

However, there is little replay value in a single player quest type of game (though I have played SC 2 many many times).

SC 1 is best enjoyed as a two player game.  Several of my friends and I have played countless hours on the Genesis.

I'd love to have a modern multiplayer networked SC1 with more scenarios.  Though I'd also be happy with a way to edit scenarios on the Genesis rom.

While I'm here, does anyone know of a good crossplatform (Mac and PC at least) Genesis emulator.  The goal here is for me to play on my Mac with an old Friend/windows user in cross the country.

is there way to play sc1 genesis over the net on an emulator? i have yet to play any body other than the ai. or maybe like you said, a port to pc, with some servers? or netplay? or something, so everyone can hook up and do battle together. that would be fun. id love to take on the uqm team or anyone in this forum for that matter. i think i would find a worthy challenge here among fans ;D. since the ai is ...well... sucks.
~DEFIANT

There is a piece of code referred to as Kaillera (http://www.kaillera.com/) that can be imported into the source of any emulator that will enable netplay. However I am unable to find any Genesis emulators using Kaillera.

(after a quick trip to Zophar.net)

Gens (http://gens.consolemul.com/) appears to support the Kaillera network. Use this with your SC1 ROM, and enjoy. ;)

sweet,  ill go check that out. its too late to mees with now. but im looking forward to it working. thanks Sage. i appreciate your "wisdom".
~DEFIANT

Yeah, but the Genesis version's framerate was so stinking slow. You'd think that a system that was popularized by the blasting speed of Sonic would be able to do better, but I read somewhere that the guy who programmed it ran out of time. Ah well.

Basically, P&F got it running, then the game was shipped before being optimized. Very sad indeed.

It wasn't FF or PR3 who worked on the genesis port, except ast they guy used the original code, as I remember. It was somebody else that my semester-starting-just-moved-baby-on-the-way fried brain can't remember, but recently joined the actual TFB team.

Most Genesis emulators let you fiddle with the timing of the emulated Genesis in a lot of ways. You can probably use this to speed up SC1. I've done this on Genecyst and DGen, and the worst side effect seems to be that the music is sped up, too.

Well, yeah, the game can play faster, but what it needs is more time slices so it plays smoother, and there's really not much you can do about that. Try it out and see what I mean.

Port the PC version and then code in the Genesis campaings.

Bleargh. DOSBox it.
If you code in the Capaigns, you'd have to add something to create the starmap. Even without the cool cycle movement of the stars, the SC1 Full-Game was REALLY different from SC2. (what, with the mining, colonizing, and fortifications on the mooooooon base)

-=PakoPako=-

I suppose this depends on the emulator, but in Genecyst, for example, increasing the virtual FPS setting to 90-100 Hz (instead of the NTSC default 60) makes the game noticeably smoother and roughly as fast as PC SC1. It seems that Genesis SC1 is doing the same thing every game cycle, but is taking more time per cycle. This would be the probable result of a rushed direct translation from PC or Amiga.

If the game is still jerky, you may have too little CPU power and/or graphics bandwidth to run the emulator at the increased speed. In this case, the emulator will probably skip the display of a few frames to keep the game running at the desired speed.

BTW, does anyone know what frame rate UQM melee is running at?

Hmm, I'll have to try this out. I use GENS, but I'll defonately give it a shot. If it works, anyone up for a internet melee game?

On SC1, no.

I'd much rather use Timewarp (imposing a limit of SC2 Super Melee ships only) than try to netplay SC1 on Genesis.

Yeah, but no one ever finished TACT for TW. *cry* That's the whole point of this thread. Wanna play SC1 stragety game. Want Archon in Space. No one wanna play with me. *(mock) sad*

The emulator Gens comes with kaillera built right in, and it works pretty decently, if you have some form of broadband.

I didn't finish reading this thread, but I have one suggestion for SC1 fans.  Get the Amiga version...

Hmm, is there a decent Amiga emulator you can recomend, and then does the rom exist, and then does the Amiga emulator have net support?

If yes, sign me up!

Windows Amiga Emulator here;

http://www.winuae.net/

For net play, you'll need the Kaillera version of WinUAE;

http://kaillera.abime.net/

All roms needed (including the kikstart roms) can be found here;

http://www.planetemu.net/

I'd rather just put in an enhanced version of the strategic mode as an add-on. It doesn't seem that complicated. In fact, I could probably program the mechanics, though integrating in the combat would be more difficult.

Oh, and although I did like strategic mode, don't you think supermelee more than makes up for its absence? Not to say I don't want it, just that I don't think it should be a high priority.  I strongly disagree that SC1 had more replay value, because supermelee provides a lot more replay than strategy mode IMO.

SC1 had a melee too. Yeah, it wasn't super, but I played it all the time against my buddies.

I suppose I just want to have my cake and eat it too, but I still get all giddy whenever someone mentions this idea.

Yeah, I know it had melee. But there were significantly less ships, and you couldn't make your own teams.

For wghhat it's worth, I agree with guesst. Such a tactical game would be awesome. And I think it would faar outrank supermelee, there'd be a tactcial element in it after all (duh!) :)

Well, maybe if me and guesst write down the idea and plan the game down to every single detail, we'll then find someone who wants to program it?  ;D

(for those with no sense of humour, that last pasrt was a joke)

I'm not saying I don't want it. I'm just saying that IMO the supermelee > Sc1 strategic mode, though strategic mode with more options, Sc2 ships, and custom teams might be even better.

Actually, I have thuoght of a few ideas:

Rather than restoring full crew immediately, colonies should restore 4 crew or 30% of the ship's maximum crew each turn, whichever is more. IMO colonies were bit too crucial in SC1. Remember that scenario with one dreadnaught against six scouts? That was SO annoying because you would heavily weaken the dreadnaught, then it ran away to its stupid colony and healed. Syreen recrewing should still work as it does.

I really think androsynth should cost more. It's easily on the level of Yehat and Utwig IMO.

Some scenarios should allow you to choose your teams. Of course, the more story-based ones should have preset teams.

Bombarding an installation does not always make it a dead world, only half the time.

New installation: shipyard. This would be like a mini-starbase, but it takes six turns to build and can only build ships of the same type as the ship that built it. Also, it takes an extra turn to build the ship.  A fortification on the planet is requrieds.



New ship abilities:
Kohr-ah also destroys fortifications instantly, just like the ur-quan.

Instead of destroying an enemy colony and turning it into a dead world, the Orz can choose to capture it. This takes three turns, and half of the Orz's current crew, though they get it back when the colony is taken.

Slylandro get crew at mines instead of colonies.

Mmrnmhrm can recruit at mines and colonies, but only at two-thirds the normal rate (they must be a little biological cause Syreen works on them).

I REALLY think the Umgah needs an ability cause it's so low on the food chain, but what would suit them?

Speaking of SC1, how abuot the old Mmrnmhrm victory ditty? It was so much cooler than the new one - anyone else think so?

Otherwise nice, but the M:bots don't really need to be biological to be affected by Syreen, just sentient. Umgah ability could be "Prankmaster". An Umgah ship can reduce an enemy fortress/colony to a dead world through a horrific prank gone wrong.

^ Um, huh? Destroying a colony leaves a life world, not a dead world.

It does? Well, I haven't played the game in forever.

When they were originally putting Star Control together, they had starbases that could "fight back"; they dropped them from the final game because it wound up being "not very fun".

Graphics for them can be found here (http://home.att.ne.jp/wave/rainbow/Toys_for_Bob/test_new_ship1.htm).

Hmm, the middle bottom ship on that page looks like a K'Tang (*shudder* SC3 reference) ship, if only in shape.

Why do I notice these things?

W00t?

What kind of ship is that? Or is it suppose to be the super godlike entity Fred Ford whom you meet in GroomBridge?

Going back a bit..

Posted by: Lukipela Posted on: 25.10.03 at 23:44:09


Posted by: Spurk Posted on: 25.10.03 at 23:44:38




Like that'd leave life on a planet...

I think you're but greatly scaled down.  But who are we to criticize!  I say we can't about these people because of what they gave us FF & PR3 specifically.

NECRO_99: I think he means that in regular SC1 destroying a colony leaves a life world. That is why I feel the Umgah special ability (just like the thing you mentioned, and I'm sure they have more than that up their sleeves) should be able to instantly reduce any world to lifeless rubble. It'd be a potent weapon, being able to rip a hole in an enenmy frontier, but the drawback would be that the planets would be unusable to your own side as well.

Point, but it would hold true to the Umgah's prankish behavior. They wouldn't just destroy the colony/mine/fortification, they'd nuke all the cute little Stilleto Worms, Carousel Beasts, Blood Monkies, Merry Whumpets, Dravatz and other life on the surface as well, not to mention the flora. Poor ol' Whackin' Bushes and Slot-Machine Trees.

Now I'm confused. I'm arguing FOR Umgah Prank = Dead World, Normal Colony DEs = Life World. And yuo seem to be doing the same. Or did I miss somethin?

Mwah, your Padawan has outdone you. :P

I'm on your side, I'm arguing against Spurk, and all at the same time, I'm counterpointing your note about how it would suck to have all the ex-colony worlds be devastated into grey, lifeless hulks. I, personally, ENJOY the concept of turning blue, beautiful worlds into steaming ash. Doing it with a joke is just an even better way of accomplishing this.

Speaking of the Kohr-Ah in previous posts, would there be neutral sides?

-The Kohr-Ah working with the Kzer-Za has about the same chances of a snowball staying in snow form in HELL. They're dangerous enough as-is.

Hey...
Playing the game from the Kohr-Ah point of view would kick. They'd have their own starbases, mines, colonies, etc. Just shred whatever gets in the way.
Immolation - Turn a Life World into a Dead World.
There's the ticket for the no-other-sentients.

-Maybe you could buy off the Druuge ships for crew if you met them in orbit around a world...

-The Melnorme, for the proper amount of Starbucks, would show your opponents forces (were it to be changed to where you don't see what your opponent is doing unless they're at adjacent stars, I like this idea personally), or, they could sell you precursor stuff but at relatively outrageous prices.

-Slylandro...I bet they'd join the NAFS if they could, so you could potentially add the Gas Giant type of planet and have them colonize there. Useless, but an idea. Also, could have random encounters w/ Probes @ planets. How bad would THAT suck.. you've got one ship left, a Scout, lets say, and you're moving to a Life World to colonize when BAM! It'd sure make people be a lot more careful about long-distance travel.

Also noted, the NAFS has a helluva lot more ship-types than the UQH, so potentially give the UQH ships more abilities.

Umgah: aforementioned "Prank-Bomb" or somesuch.

VUX - Orbital Limpet Curtain: Any Non-UQH ships passing through would have their speed/turning reduced by half for the next fight they entered, and it would cost extra for them to move. Takes 2 turns to deploy a curtain.

Thraddash - Afterburner: Use the Afterburners for transit in Hyperspace, making their cost for movement next to nothing, but would start them in combat with a depleted battery.

Ilwrath - Cloak: The Ilwrath could bypass ships (not fortifications) without worry as long as it was cloaked. It'd take up it's turn to cloak, and to decloak. It could not attack while cloaked.

Mycon - Conversion: Turn a Green World into a Mineral World with the proper application of a Deep Child. Would take 3 turns,  just like building a mine.

Just some ideas.

Whether or not the Kohr-ah would join the Kzer-za is not exactly the point. In supermelee you can have Utwig and Supox fight - and is that realistic? I think it would be a lot more fun if you let each player set up a team of ships they could build. Of course, for story-oriented scenarios you could force certain preset teams like with SC1.  For example, Total War (everyone gets a full fleet and no starbase) and Escalation (just a starbase) would work well with custom-made teams. Onslaught (where six Ur-quans attack the alliance) and Exterminate (where a lone Dreadnaught attacks a shofixti base) wouldn't really be the same with custom teams, so those scenarios would have preset teams.

BTW, the Thraddash and VUX abilities sound way too good, and with the Ilwrath cloaking it would be very easy to prevent either side from winning.  The Mycon already have a special ability.

I'm actually considering writing a strategy mode-type addon. I'm not sure about it yet though, so don't get your hopes up. :)

Bah, youngsters tody. Give them a couple of measly force powers, and they think they rule the galaxy. Upstarts.

As for the prank - dead world thingy, I'm not arguing against it, I'm merely pointing out that this would make it more balanced, sort of an ability you could use just to breach defenses, but which will leave you with pretty useless worlds...

JkWJ,  this strategy mode type adon thiong your considering, any details clear yet? You gonna do a SC1 type map, or (as suggested in the oold thread) will we somehow be playing with part of the HS map and systems?

Thje idea with both preset missions and customizable ones where you picvk teams yourself is good, that makes for varying gameplay, as realistic as you want it to be.

Special abilities for other Ships...

Supox - Once a Supox has visited a life world, it's automatically a colony, since you can grow any amount of Supox in the wild.

Arilou, able to move through "hidden Pathways"

This said, all ships should NOT have a special ability, that simply makes it too much of a good thing...

I dunno about that Supox ability, seems REALLY good and very overpowered. I mean, in sc1 it took a ship 3 turns to colonize a world! One thing I was considering was that they could colonize dead worlds, but it would take a long time. This would be more balanced. Remember, Arilou already have an ability - they ignore fortifications.  Ur-quans by contrast are trapped by them but destroy them at end of turn - there's a subtle but important difference. The Umgah prankster ability sounds like a good one though.

I was thinking about something similar to SC1's strategic mode. I would probably start out by rebuilding the Sc1 Alliance vs. Hierarchy mode (without that stupid rotating starmap of course), then add in custom teams, the SC2 ships, and maybe a couple of other improvements.  The only really major problem I can see in the programming is integrating it with the game engine.  Right now I'm working on a proto-type program that connects random circles with lines, to help me figure out how to do the star connections.

I agree about too many abilities. We don't want all the ships to have them.

Yes we do. All SC1 ships had them. Some were just subtle, but all were approprate, and generally balanced. The last point, balance, is one reason why I think some of these ideas may not work.

Also, you gotta think of storyline here. It's okay to give one ship an overpowered special if they will only rarely show up in the missions. Maybe I should sit down and write out my story ideas so far. I've done a bit on the boards alread, but if you like them they may give you ideas. (And if you hate them then .. then.. badword YOU.)

Wait a minute...



What! WHAT!!! I .. *spat* *spudder* I ... this is out hope for getting this project done?! You can't... you... don't you dare! [/rightous indegnation]

Okay, man, all joking aside. If you aren't going to impliment the rotating 3-d starmap, I hope someone else comes in and does. That was esental to the experience.  I don't mind there being a 2-d/3-d option, and even a visible/invisible starpaths option (apporpiate to either 2-d or 3-d). But I need my 3-d rotating starmap!

I'm pretty sure JWJ was refering to this (From SC1 manual):

Strategic Ship Powers
Four of the 14 vessels in the game possess special strategic powers:
Ur-Quan Fort Destruction
A single Ur-Quan vessel is able to destroy fortifications by itself, without besieging.  To do
so, an Ur-Quan must simply end its turn at an enemy fort.
Mycon Crew Regeneration
Mycon ships regenerate crew after each battle.  Once a battle is concluded, and play
returns to the Fleet Command View, a Mycon ship regains its full crew complement.
Arilou Fortifications Immunity
The Ariloulaleelay have the remarkable ability to use their Skiff's hyperdrive shunt to pass
through enemy fortifications.  
Syreen Crew Replenishment
The Syreen, barred from recruiting normally, can nonetheless add crew to their Penetrators
by conquering enemy colonies and seizing residents.  Doing so raises the Syreen's crew
complement to its maximum.

Note that the strategic powers of Ur-Quan/Arilou and Mycon/Syreen are very similar to each other, and they are all passive powers.

In TW's TACT documents, it has been suggested that there should also be usable strategic powers (like the umgah trick above).  Some ships would possibly posses both a passive and usable power (Kzer-Za Fort Destruction, Kzer-Za Slave-Shielding; Mycon Regeneration, Mycon Deep-Child implantation), some old ships were given new strategic powers that worked in new terrains (Earthlings are immune to asteroid fields due to their PDLs), or were outright added (Umgah Zip-back; it can retrace its path at end of turn).  I suppose it's time for me to start working on TACT again.  It's too bad JWJ doesn't like TW's melee (or the 3D starmap), it'd be nice to have some more programming help.

Guesst, read through the old  thread. Ig a 3D starmpa isn't implemented, what do you think of the idea to use the 2D Hyperspace Map, and then some sort of system maps?

No, only four sc1 ships had them. I'm not referring to the special weapon, I'm talking about out-of-combat abilities.


You gotta understand though, if I do it I hope to make it so that when you create a scenario, you can either force preset teams or allow custom ones. If a ship had an overpowered ability, it might be too much of a sure pick in a custom team scenario. But feel free to post your scenario ideas.

I'm gonna start with Alliance vs. Hierarchy with a few of the better SC1 scenarios and expand from there to include SC2 ships and custom teams.

I'll consider making the stars move back and forth, but that's the closest I'll go to 3d starmap (so they probably won't fade into the background like in Sc1). I thought everyone hated it, but I guess I was wrong.

Status update:
The game engine is a nightmare to write with! I can't even figure out how to use the graphics library. The development team seems to want to simplify things in future versions though, and I'll probably wait until it gets cleaned up some and better documented.  But for now, I can still work on the basic mechanics.
The thing I'm having touble with is the star connections. I'm working on a method for doing. Randomly generating stars is easy, but what's difficult is creating connections to other randomly generated stars.

You don't want to create random stars and then figure out how to connect them! That is not at all gauranteed to have a nice solution. How about you create a random graph and then use that to create a star layout. That problem isn't so hard.

Proposed algorithm for creating a random map:

Take parameters S (separation between opposing starbases), D (number of inserted dead ends), L (number of closed loops in the map), and E (Extra stars in loops and dead ends).
The total number of stars will be S + D + L + E + 1.

1) create S + 1 stars, all connected in a straight line.
2) do this L times: choose 2 random stars with fewer than 5 neighbors, weighted by the number of connections fewer than 5 (this helps to balance out the map, preventing one side from being rich in stars). Propose a loop connecting these two stars, the loop containing one new star. If the new separation of starbases would be less than its minimum value, compare the shortfall to the remaining Extra stars. If there are enough Extra stars, claim enough to balance out the minimum separation. otherwise, cancel the loop and try again.
3) do this D times: add a dead-end star (once again, weight this by free connections to balance out the map).
4) do this enough times to use up the extra stars: insert a star into a loop or to extend a dead-end (note, the starbases are at dead ends, so these stars can be put outside the separation of the bases even if there are no loops or dead-ends).

This is in no way gauranteed to produce a fair map. Of course, the easy way to make it fair is to make it symmetric. Alternately, you can devise several metrics of constraint (In my example above, I used only separation of starbases). A prime example is:
--The two starbases must have similar average distances to all stars.
This prevents, say, an umbrella-shaped map with one starbase at the nexus. That starbase would be unfairly favored.


ONCE YOU HAVE YOUR ABSTRACT GRAPH:

here is an algorithm in pseudocode for arranging them in a real coordinate system. Note that with arbitrary graphs, this is much easier to do in 3-space than in 2-space. Once you have it in 3-space you may be able to smush it into 2-space. Maybe you won't.

(forgive the dots -- seems the indenting won't work right otherwise, even in a code statement)


(edit for clarity and punctuation)

yeah, my bad.

And Death_999, you know I love you, but you're looking like you're going to kill this thread with technicality, like the last one.

Not that I mind it. I love this stuff. I wish I had the time to get back into this like I did when I was younger.

It looks like you've given the logrythm more though since last time. Don't worry about making the map "fair". SC1's maps were often unfair. However, they were made, somehow, from both sides. Open up the scenario editor and look at the variables that went in to see what I mean. Aside from that, this logrythm may be too complex, but what the heck. It could be fun.

Actually i liked Death999s' post. It is a much  more logical way to approach the starmap-buid problem.
Okay, the algorithm did not need this explicit elaboration, but still useful for understanding. And that's what his post is about.

And yes, i agree, SC1 maps were more often than not  no fair maps (unfair fits semantically, but not logically - at least to me).

Hey, if you don't want to read the coding suggestion, skip the post, don't drop the whole topic! I guess my point was, the stumbling block he mentioned has a way around it.

"However, they were made, somehow, from both sides."

I know -- they clearly used a different algorithm. Even with this one, it is possible to distribute the life worlds and metal worlds according to an algorithm which cares about sides.

"Aside from that, this logrythm may be too complex, but what the heck. It could be fun."

From a computer point of view, this abstract graph algorithm should be very simple to implement -- we're talking around a hundred lines of code, maybe less.
From a player point of view, if the player doesn't want to have to care about the topology of the map, they can use preset styles.
Did you ever play Galactic Frontiers? That had just about every game parameter settable by the player. But you didn't need to change all the parameters or even look at them to play...

Incidentally:
algorithm = a specific description of a method
logarithm = the inverse of exponentiation

Thanks for the better algo, Death 999!  It's far better than my "plot-random; connect the neighbors", and more understandable than your previous suggestion (still not sure what relaxation algorithms are. The only references I saw dealt with simulated protein crystalization - something my ChemE brother might be interested in - but don't answer here; no need to kill the thread :P ).
Just in case people don't know what I'm talking about:
http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1046446680;start=0

Good idea Death 999! A lot better than what I was thinking of.

I think that the ship costs need some thought. Most of them will be worth the melee point value, but a few need tweaking IMO:
Mycon is way too expensive, I think 16 is good.
Androsynth is not expensive enough, 18 seems to be reasonable.
Chenjesus are nice, but they're way too expensive - not sure how much to drop it by though.
Possibly raise Orz, Yehat, and Utwig all to 24 or 25?

I think these are the only major ones - a lot of it is a matter of personal opinion.

Actually, what I described IS a relaxation algorithm... depending on the how hard you push or pull, that is... ;)

Hm, who's side would the Spathi be on? I mean, they switch to NAFS in SC2, but they're UQH beforehand. Where would this game sit, as it were, in the timeline?

JWJ:

Chenjesu was expensive because they're the leaders, of course it's going to cost to build 'em. Those Photon Crystals smart!

I actually agree with the Androsynth being more expensive. Due to their limited numbers as beings themselves (and awesome ship capabilities) they should cost just a tick more.

Mycon is right price: They're a pill to kill with any ship that's the same speed, and even if they have 1 crew left and they win, they automatically regenerate full-compliment. Plus, those Plasmoids HURT.

Thought Yehat was 25? I know its the next notch down from Chenjesu.

Utwig: It's good, but it's got a few major flaws. Make it about 20-22.

Orz: 18-20 max. They make excellent shock ships, but have poor "staying" power.

Supox:14-17: Great for picking apart larger ships, and relatively cost-effective.

ZFP: 8-12: Just above the Shofixti. I've gotten into practice with this thing, and it is probably the best skirmishing ship the NAFS has. Wide spray is helpful (Ilwrath = chewtoy) and the tongue packs a punch. Great Mycon-slayer too.

Pkunk: 7-10: Somewhere near the Shofixti. Helluva strafing ship, but lacks any sort of higher offensive power due to small crew.

We just leaving the Chmmr out of this?

Just my 2 cents.

Necro,
For the last time, you will be able to allow custom teams in a scenario that isn't story-dependent, or to force certain preset teams for the scenario if it's story-based.  
Sorry, but I am SO sick of explaining that to people. For example, in Escalation (build up with a starbase and nothing else), the Spathi affiliation is unknown, cause it'll have custom teams. In counter-attack (alliance gets Chenjesu and money, hierarchy gets a few lower-end ships, a couple of mines, and no money), they would be on the hierarchy side. And in a scenario that occurs in the sc2 storyline, they would be on the alliance side



I like the broodhome, I just think that 28 starbucks is a bit much. 26 maybe?


True, that is a great special ability. Still,  I just think 21 is too much. Almost any fast ship can beat it with ease, so can the Yehat and Utwig. And there's no ship that it really performs great agianst.


It's 23. I think it's better than Broodhome, but I'm not sure what the popular opinion is.


I agree that it's a bit overrated. I guess 22 is fine how it is.


Yes, its life expectancy is a bit low. However, it's quite powerful and will be able to capture enemy colonies and/or mines. Right now it's 23. If I lower it at all, it won't be more than 21 or 22.


But Supox is so hard to use! I think that considering how difficult it is to master, 12 is fine how it is.


ZFP - you serious? I love the race, and it's fun to fly, but no way does it deserve that many points. It already is just above the Shofixti (5 points vs. 6). "Great Mycon-slayer" isn't saying much - arilou, shofixti, pkunk, yehat, utwig, and a few other also rip the mycon to pieces.


Pkunk would be too expensive, but 7-10 is a huge chop (it's 20 right now). How about 14 or 15?


Why? I think 30 starbucks is fine. Maybe 1-3 points more. It's not as good as many people think, just insanely easy to use.

Do you guys think colonies should replenish Chmmr zapsats and Utwig fuel?

I don't think any of the values should be changed.  Thats what they are in supermelee, see no reason to change it.  You are NEVER going to find a set of point values that everyone agrees on, so why not just use the ones set by fred and paul?

Also, seems a little silly to be arguing this so much.  Its a bit far off, its like designing and building a car from scratch and fighting about what color the paint will be, before there is anything on the drawing board.

I guess you're right. Arguing about these details is a bit premature.

I've gotten started on the starmap generator, using Death_999's algorithm.

News: I've gotten a sort-of working starmap generator now. It can create connectifications between the starbases, and also dead end stars. Can't do loops yet though. In fact, if anyone wants to check it out, I can e-mail it to them. But be forewarned, my code is really sloppy.

Why not create a Sourceforge project to host the code, or talk to the UQM guys about creating a separate package in their SF project for your stuff, if you plan to integrate it with UQM code at some stage?

I won't be asking for the devs to create a package for a long time. It's not even close to functional yet. :) I'll look into sourceforge though.

Could you email it to me? I might be able to figure out how to handle the loops...

(for email address, see the little letter icon near my avatar)

I will sometime soon...unfortunately I accidentally broke it when trying to add a new feature, and forgot to save a backup, so I'll have to fix that first.  ::)