The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: NECRO-99 on September 04, 2003, 08:45:46 pm



Title: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 04, 2003, 08:45:46 pm
Instead of arguing over which ship(s) are best, why dont we simply give strategys of OUR single favorite, it's strengths and weaknesses, and how to use it effectively against the other ships. No arguments, no saying "hey, that doesn't work" or any of that, just solid fact about your favorite ship and it's traits.

I guess I'll start off, and my favorite is no suprise...

Androsynth Guardian

+: Relatively large crew for it's size, bubbles make excellent shielding, and of course the DOGI trick.

-: Slow, relatively poor turning radius, relatively slow energy regeneration.

General Tactics/Notes:

-All-Arounder: This ship is an excellent blend of offence and defense. Using the bubbles while being chased makes opponents turn away, and the Blazer mode will atomize anyone unfortuante enough to get caught.

-Care for a quickie?: Blazer mode can only be outrun by five ships, the Arilou, the Slylandro, the Pkunk, Thraddash on Afterburner, Reversing Umgah and the Druuge @ full backblast speed. It is also quite handy when turning in Blazer mode, use this to your advantage.

-Choices, choices: Two distinct players show themselves when playing the Guardian: the Spittlebug and the Fireball. The player that learns to use both well will be able to defeat most anything that gets in their way.

Specialized Tactics:

-Avatar: Tough cookie to break, especially with that tractor beam. Blaze, and pray that you stick in the wing crevaces. If you do, instant kill. If not, the Zap-Sats will wear you down, or, in unlucky cases, the main laser will cook you.

-Avenger: Hehehe, bubbles still randomly move even though he's invisible. Get a grav-whip, wait for him to turn around to meet you head on, bubble about 80% of your batts and blaze away. The poor suckers'll fly right into the cloud.

-Blade: Good manuverability makes bubble clouds a little tricky, but I've found a relatively good tactic. Send out one or two to make the Blade do its evasive manuvers, but before the bubbles get there, crank the ship 180 and cloud one of the sides. By the time the initial bubbles get there, the larger cloud will have dispersed and you may get a lucky hit or three. If this method is too slow, Blaze, but be warned, the Blade can turn quite rapidly.

-Broodhome: DOGI trick, ram 'em in normal form. Nuff said. Once the DOGI trick works no longer, send three or so bubbles to make the Broodhome go shatter crazy trying to defend itself from the bubbles. One he's out of energy, ram.

-Cruiser: Blazer. Nuff said. That little laser will drop two crew at max.

-Dreadnaught: Cakewalk. They will usually send fighters (droves of them) to you. Bubbles can absorb three points of damage, so each bubble has the potential to drop three crew from the Ur-Quan. When he's low, flank n Blaze.

-Drone: These guys are screwed if they even think about zipping. Watch and wait for them to turn around to zip at you, then cloud when they start. Instant kill. Blazer is dangerous as the cone can rip you to shreds.

-Eluder: Bubbles can be used as distractions to fend off BUTT missiles. When he gets close, Blaze and jam yourself inbetween the side pods (purple and blue or red and green) and watch the fireworks.

-Fury: A lot of these tactics depend on operator error. The Fury can easily escape Blazer, so it's really a hit-and-miss bubble war from the Guardian's perspective. Hope he screws up and hits them, and pray he doesn't respawn. A typical fight like this takes about 5 minutes for me. One trick I have discovered is to cloud and then hide within, forcing the Fury to get close for the short range guns.

-Guardian: Ah, Guard vs. Guard. This fight is totally dependent on what the opponent does. If the opponent prefers to Blaze at you, create a bubble shield and sit in it. If he's a bubbler, its a total bubble war, as Blazing at a Guardian isn't the smartest idea. Sometimes the comp and yourself can get into races, weaving in and out of each other, scoring lucky hits every now and then, but dont expect a solid chance to win in this situation. Bubble wars get dangerous, especially when both Guardians expel their clouds at once. Whose are whose? A tough fight.

-Intruder: At the beginning of the fight, Blaze the second you hit the screen to escape those damn limpets and that laser. Once you've gotten away, the rest of the fight is easy. The VUX has to chase you to get any chance of firing or getting a limpet hit, so use the cloud-gravwhip tactic and the VUX are history. Smarter human captains will know that limpet ranges are long, so they might grav whip themselves, send walls of limpets, and later come in for the kill. Blazing is not advised against Intruders, as limpets still stick.

-Jugger: Wear down his shielding with bubbles (those things are so chaotic he'll shield whenever they get near) and once he's drained, continue the onslaught. Don't try to Blaze him either, the quad-guns can lay the hurt on pretty quickly.

-Marauder: This guy sucks, but I've found a tac that will work about 80% of the time if its the computer. Send one or two bubbles toward it. The comp will burn off both FRIEDs to defend from the bubbles, leaving him energyless for a moment. Turn around and head toward him, then, at the last moment, turn and cloud like crazy. The Kohr-Ah turns well, but the engines don't respond fast enough to avoid the cloud, and you can usually drop about 1/3 of his crew by doing this.

-Mauler: Get him to go full speed (most Druuge human players don't control their recoil: big mistake) then intercept and cloud, or, if you're a good aim, Blaze him.

-Nemesis: My favorite fight. The Orz send marines, usually in groups of 6. Blaze the crap out of them, but be careful when they bunch together, as some (usually 1 or 2) can break in whilst the others are getting pulverized. Once the Nemesis is low enough on crew to stop sending marines, Blaze and stuff yourself inbetween the back fins. Damn Orz. >:(

-Penetrator: Bubbles for defensive clouds as the Penetrator chases you, and Blaze only to escape. Crew will get sucked out and you'll comet their guts out of existance. Force the Penetrator to follow you into the gravity well, then bubble.

-Podship: Mwah. Let it fire it's two plasmoids at the start, then Blaze when the get close, dodge them and crush the stupid fungi. If you're feeling particularily mean, note that all Mycon go for the planet right after their first two shots. Beat them there and cloud the hell out of the planet.

-Probe: The ship to NEVER use Blazer against. Get them to follow you, then bubble a few to drive it off course. Head toward the planet, and you'll notice that most times it will try to cut you off by orbiting the other way. Big mistake. Get there first and cloud up the planet. Sly die easy.  ;D

-Scout: STAY AWAY!!! That Glory Device will clean your clock! Don't ever Blaze offensively. Get it to chase you, then cloud. Most humans (and the computer) are cocky enough to think they can make it through the cloud. They can't.

-Skiff: Long, drawn out battle. One trick that'll work every now and then is to lay a medium sized cloud, then Blaze after the Skiff, aiming it toward the cloud. It'll either teleport (hopefully into the cloud) or you'll force it to turn and risk getting rammed.

-Stinger: Bubbles are your friend here too, as three licks from the Stinger send the Guardian to Androsynth Heaven. If you can manage to flank it (somehow), more power to you, Blazer time.

-Terminator: Ugh. Bubbles make good distractions, but most times they are smart enough to shield from them. Your best bet is to, in normal form, meet the Term coming head on. When you're just out of gun range, Blaze past it, then turn around to flank it and ram the crap out of it. If you get too close, twin-barreled death awaits. Too soon, and they'll strafe you.

-Torch: Hehehe. Make it use it's jets by chasing it, but lay a cloud before. Most often it'll run into the cloud, or, you can turn around in Blazer form and trash it coming head on. That little pea-shooter is nothing to worry about.

-Trader: Beware their screwer-upper beam, it'll leave a Blazer helpless. Stick to Guardian mode, and get it to chase you (if possible) with bubble trails to make it blow up a charging shot. Once the Trader is under half power (enough to fire the screwer-upper) Blaze at will but beware the front of the ship. Their bullet automatically comes back if it's destroyed and they've got enough power.

-Transformer: Totally dependant on what aspect it's in. X-Form, Blaze it but make sure to flank or you'll take pretty heavy casualities from twin lasers. Y-Form, Blaze and chase it a ways to get it going, then 180, meet it head on, and lay fiery death upon them. If you miss, bubble the area they're going through. They turn so slow in Y-Form that they'll have a very slim chance of escaping some damage.

Well, I hope someone adds to this. I spilled my guts on how to fly a Guardian well, I hope that someone else will spill on how to fly their favorite ship better.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on September 05, 2003, 12:21:37 am
I wonder what my favorite ship is. Back in SC1, my favorite ship to use was the Arilou, because I could wipe out any ship in the Hierarchy with it. Unfortunately, it's not good enough to be used much in SC2. Nevertheless, I'll pick it.

Ariloulaleelay Skiff
+: Fast, instantly accelerates to full velocity, no inertia, teleportation.
-: Short weapon range, teleport to unfortunate places, low crew.
I like to use this ship near planets since other ships have a more difficult time navigating it. Like the Pkunk and other quick ships, being a good pilot with quick reflexes is essential.

Against the Hierarchy:
Dreadnought: This is more of a pain to kill in SC2 than SC1. In SC1 the computer was stupider and would fly into the planet if you positioned yourself correctly on the other side of the planet. Also, the fighters could be wiped out on the planet so there was no problem from them. Unfortunately, SC2 fixed both of those problems. Now the idea is to stay away from the UrQuan while he launches fighters at you and try to wipe them out on the nearby asteroids. When you finally get the UrQuan to the point where he doesn't launch the fighters, sit by the planet and wait for him to come to you. While he negotiates the gravity, run out and fire at him.
Podship: This is the easiest matchup for the Skiff. Run up to the Mycon, fire at him, dodge his fire, and then rope the fire into running into the Podship. It's almost too easy.
Eluder: This is a standard hit-and-run. Or in the Arilou's case, hit-and-hyperjump.
Guardian: In SC1, the computer would lay down clouds which the Arilou could navigate around while taking the occasional shot at the Guardian until he was dead. In SC2, the Guardian seems to favor the Blazer form which means that the Arilou should sit next to the planet while the Blazer tries to hit you.
Intruder: First thing, hyperjump away. If this is your last engagement, then a sure-fire way to kill the Intruder is to sit at the planet and take shots at him as he limpets you. If this is not your last engagment, then you may not want to try this since you will be limpeted for your next enemy. In that case run at him, taking care to avoid the laser and the limpets.
Avenger: Sit by the planet and shoot straight ahead. It takes patience, but the computer seems to have an aversion to hitting the planet even if it gets it the kill, so it keep sweeping by you and you can take shots till it's gone.
Drone: Sit by the planet and shoot when the Umgah comes near. The Umgah does not have a very successful time avoiding the planet either, which makes your job even easier.

Against the Alliance:
Broodhome: Impossible. Well, maybe not, but I've never had any luck. You can't sit by the planet since the DOGIs will bounce you into it or away from it. You can't get close to the ship since it will send shards at you. A hit-and-jump is your only bet, but it only takes three shards to destroy you.
Terminator: Also hard. The planet works, but take care because his bullets are long range. Always use the planet as a shield.
Transformer: In Y-Form, it's a piece of cake, hit-and-run. In X-Form, be careful. Planet works against X-Form pretty well though.
Skiff: Make sure you have more battery power than your opponent when you two close on each other.
Penetrator: She'll suck your crew, but that's life. If you're quick you can stay behind her and she can't turn fast enough to get a clear shot at you. Then after you've killed her you can retreive your crew.
Cruiser: Hit-and-run/jump, all the way. The missile are pretty easy to avoid. You're sure to lose some crew due to its PDL, but that can't be helped.
Scout: Mutually Assured Destruction.

SC2:
Avatar: You have to be extremely, extremely patient for this one, but if you sit around the planet, you can convince him to crash into it. You need to do this multiple times. The tractor beam doesn't work on you, thankfully.
Blade: I find the planet keeps the Blade off-guard enough to get some good shots in. Hit-and-run works best. It's hard to come away unscathed though.
Fury: I like the planet, but it's not necessary. Hit-and-run vs. hit-and-run, but it's easier for you to hit him than for him to hit you.
Jugger: This is tricky as anything because he turns so quickly. If you run up to him, he'll instinctively put up his shields. Do this a number of times until they're gone. Then try to hit him before he hits you. Again, the planet is your friend in these times.
Marauder: Be quick, stay sharp, don't hit the blades. Initially get close to him and jump away so he'll use his ring of fire. Then come back and circle around him, taking whatever shots you need. Just be careful about the blades.
Mauler: The only problem with fighting this guy is that a lucky shot is all he needs. Jump away when he starts firing, force him to kill his crew. When he gets fast enough, intercept him and fire all you have.
Nemesis: Tricky, but not impossible. Avoiding the marines is fairly easy unless an ill-placed jump puts you next to them. Hit-and-Run/Jump is the way to go. Just watch out for the omni-directional gun.
Probe: It's faster than you and it's lasers reach farther, but your lasers are quicker. Hit-and-Run/Jump.
Stinger: They move quick and turn quick. The planet is good to confuse them. Avoiding their fire isn't altogether easy though. Definitely a win, but hard to come out unscathed.
Torch: No inertia, no momentum. Rush towards him, but if you're about to run into fire, stop. No need to jump. His pea-shooter isn't going to beat your laser. If you're quick, you won't even get hit by it.
Trader: Turns too slowly. Rush up from behind and make sure you DON'T FACE FRONT! Being robbed of your jumping ability sucks and if you've been firing at him at close range, he's probably been nursing his fire to lethal colors (purple or red are both instant kills).


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Orz Brain on September 05, 2003, 02:49:59 am
Orz Nemisis is the best. About the only threat to it is the Avatar and the Guardian.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Talhydras on September 05, 2003, 04:26:44 am
Favorite Ship: Chenjesu Broodhome

+: Crew and Battery second only to the two Ur-Quan ships and a Chmmr (and the unlikely event of a fully staffed Penetrator)
-: Slow. Slow to turn, slow to thrust. Fast ships are annoying.

Notice that I said this is my favorite ship, not the best ship to use. Best is probably the Jugger, about the only way to beat it in any kind of fight is to be tricky. And the Broodhome is just tons of fun...

Arilou: Blah. Teleportation is not fun, but a few lucky "ack-ack" shards can see 'im off.
Androsynth: Blah, blah. They're one of the sneaky nasty enemies to fight. The best tactic is to, whenever possible, hose him with photon crystals. Three to four direct hits means he's dead.
Chmmr: This is a fun fight. But only if you do it properly. Close the range, line him up and rapid fire the photon crystal. In a head on fight, you can't lose.
Chenjesu: Slugfest! Fun. Or not fun, depending on how weaselly they are. Dogis dodge sharding, and in a head on fight crystals cancel each other out.
Druuge: Dogi 'em. Either that or be very patient. These tend to kill me.
Earthling: Fishbait. They're slow. Gravity whip and take 'em out.
Ilwrath: Figure out where they are, if the screen minimizes, use ackack shards to get his direction and fry the booger.
Pkunk: Another annoying fight. Ack ack works best.
Ur-quan: Close the range desperately. You fire about three times as fast as him, so you can't lose unless his fighters getcha.
Kohr-Ah: Keep your distance and shell him. Your crystals make effective blade-stoppers.
Spathi: If you can catch 'em, eat 'em.
Slylandro: Too maneuverable. Hit 'em with ack ack when they come near.
Supox: Slam dunk.
Umgah: Most of the time, slam dunk. Conage is pain, however.
Utwig: Dogi and hope to god you pull it off. This ship is almost unfair.
Thraddash: If you stay put, it's hard to get killed by this thing. Not a slam dunk, but easily do able.
Melnorme: Confusion ray is enough to make one weep. Try to use fire arcs to dodge it, then waste 'em, or waste 'em with ackack.
Mmrnmrhrm: They'll peck you to death. Full out pain.

I kinda like the chenjesu even better in timewarp, as it's full of ships that the chenjesu just sorta plows through. This ship is lots of fun in a scrap, mainly because it has decent speed (if you're a snail like the Chmmr) and it's got the best forward weapon in the entire game when used properly.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 05, 2003, 07:58:40 am
Orz Brain, could you elaborate on your tactics a bit to us? What do you feel are the Nemesis' advantages, disadvantages, general tacs and ship-specific tacs? Personally, I'm a cruddy Nemesis pilot, and I could stand to learn some tacs. Only one I really know how to wax with it (of all ships possible) is the Avatar.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Krulle on September 05, 2003, 04:48:20 pm
Quote
Orz Nemisis is the best. About the only threat to it is the Avatar and the Guardian.
The Avatar? Huh? Turret to the back (if he followd). Your range is greater, use it. Fire from full energy (3 or 4 rapid shots, only 2 get defended, the others will hit satelite od Avatar). I thought it easy.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 05, 2003, 06:29:12 pm
Heh, thats the exact tac vs. Chmmr that I use. After I've dropped two of the ZapSats, I start to be a real jerkoff and send Marines. It can't turn fast enough to fry them ;D


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Krulle on September 05, 2003, 07:21:45 pm
Quote
Heh, thats the exact tac vs. Chmmr that I use. After I've dropped two of the ZapSats, I start to be a real jerkoff and send Marines. It can't turn fast enough to fry them ;D
Same tactics with the Supox Blade. Just kill his Zap-Sats (at the point where they pass the Avatar in your direction, giving them less time to remove your spits) and only then start shooting the Avatar itself.

The Avatar is an easy to use (because self-defending) weapon, but definitly not the best one around. It can be killed by quite a lot other ships. It's just good for beginners, definitly not the weapon which could singlehanded remove the Kohr-Ah and Kzer-Za fleets.

BTW: coders: Do the ZapSats loose energy when shooting (limited amount of self-defence lasershots, like 1 damage when shooting?) or do they only take damage when hit? How high is their damageabsorption anyway?  Thanks!!!!


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on September 05, 2003, 07:46:32 pm
Caveat: I am not familiar with the UQM codebase; this is derived from experience and spoilers.
ZapSats have 8 crew-equivalent. They do not have battery per se, but their fire rate is limited (however, it is far faster than the terran equivalent)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Kohr-Ah_Death_1 on September 05, 2003, 09:25:58 pm
Hence my name, I tend to favor the powerful, albeit slow might of the Kohr-Ra Marauder, but I also tend to favor the mighty Orz nemesis and Arilou Skiff. Since a Skiff profile has already been performed. I shall do one for the Marauder and if permitted, Orz as well.


Marauder

+:Largest crew compacity, equal to the Urquan Dreadnought and Chmmr Avatar. Decent speed. High energy regeneration,
F.R.I.E.D.

-:Slow turning ability, weakened greatly by DOGIs, susceptible to Skiff hit and run tactics.

Although this ship suffers in turning ability....it is has terrific defense potential and even better offense abilities. I have been able to eliminate an Urquan dreadnought at close range with a single F.R.I.E.D. attack. As well as eliminate most close range ships with the same weapon.

Its main weakness is to DOGI's which unless eliminated by the F.R.I.E.D. gas balls, will constantly drain away it's fuel, leaving it highly vunerable.

The shuriken is highly useful for creating a defensive wall, the A.I. piloting heavy crafts will almost certainly pilot itself straight into the oncoming barrage.

They are also handy for destroying other weapons and even zap satellites. Although using the F.R.I.E.D. attack will eliminate them quicker, you must come into close range combat, so the shurikens are sometimes much more... convenient.

Well, I would type more, but I am more than likely boring you by now...so I shall leave you to read my long and tiresom description.




Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on September 05, 2003, 09:31:05 pm
8? Well I always thought they had 6 because I took them down with one dreadnought fusion or mauler shots. Well nevermind. Here is my favourite ship.

Favourite ship: But ofcourse! Yehat terminator ( I was mycon frick, that has changed in uqm. Thanx for the voices!)

+ Shield and rapidfire pulse gun. Very deadly. Small ship like the pkunk, it will fly away easily and that's exactly what you want.
- Slow turning, low battery and the tactic is hard to manage.

The problem with this ship is the shield control. Not like the jugger if you hold the special key it will drain the shield faster. There is another problem. Big one. Called the planet.

Arilou: Hard. You have to have great aiming. DON'T LET HIM TO ATTACK YOU FROM BACK! Shoot on him while using the shield and hopefully he will get hit and wrap away without leaving a scratch on you before your battery ends. Gravity whip isn't neccesery.
Androsynth: One of the hardest fights against human controlled ship. But against the computer you do simple thing. You approch him and NOT SHOOTING HIM until he do a cloud of bubbles. Use the shield and then attack him. He won't have much energy to ram you.
Chmmr: To easy to believe it is easy! If you can, use gravity whip. If not, make him use the tracor beam and then he is history. Use the shield while firing, until the battry is drained you will be far away from him. Repeat.
Chenjesu: Chase him. Use the DOGI to accelerate(small ship or not?)
Druuge: Chase. He shoot, (shield, shield, shield) he flys away. Then he flys next to you. Then he explode.
Earthling: Hack and slash!
IIlwarth: Hack and slash!
Pkunk: Hack and slash!
Ur-quan: Kill the fighter and... Hack and slash!
Koar-ah: Make him to drain his battery then ram him. Then shot on him while you fly away from him(You won't fly much fast then him, so you could kill him before you will be out of range)
Spathi: look at pkunk
Slylandro: Nightmare. You can destroy it but with many dead crew.
Supox: Use gravity whip or if you want use the AI weakness and make him "strafe" to you.
Umgah: More range. More speed. Pulse shots go through the anti-matter ray. Easy fight.
Utwig: Long fight. Use gravity-whip.
Thraddash: Stay still, wait him to come. Use shield and finish him. (or don't use shield and lose 1 crew)
Podship: Chase him. Annoying!!!!
Vux: Make him chase you. Beware of the limpest!
Yehat: Make him chase you. Turn around and finish him.
Transformer: Patheint.
Syreen: Try to finish it with 1 skirmish if you can't finish it while the ship is after your crew.
Shofixi: There is a reason why they made them thier "children". The glory device.
Orz: Kill the marine then the vessel itself.
Melnorme: Try to sneak from back and then run!!!
ZPF: For all the fans..... Hack and slash!!!!

Overall this ship can beat all other, and I like it. Second place or not?


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Chrispy on September 06, 2003, 02:36:26 am
Quote
Orz Nemisis is the best. About the only threat to it is the Avatar and the Guardian.

what bout the ariloo, spathi, pkunk. the orz isnt that fast


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 06, 2003, 06:47:41 am
Chrispy: This topic wasn't started to criticize other's notes about their favorite craft. Perhaps Jiffa doesn't have a problem with the ships you mentioned. This topic was for people to give tactics out to others to improve their gameplay, not to critique it.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Krogoth255 on September 06, 2003, 07:14:53 am
Utwig Jugger

Overview
The Utwig Jugger is one of most powerful ships in Star Control 2. If not the most poweful in the right hands and conditions.
Pros and Cons
+ damage absorbing shield, good firepower without energy comsumtion, very good turning rate, attack affected by interia

- cannot regerate it's own energy without absorbing enemy fire,  low crew for a large ship, poor acceration, average top speed, much more vurniable when it's powerless to use it's shield.

Verses

Avatar: This match requires very good reflexes between using your shields and weapons. Once you have this the Avatar is Utwig fodder the Avatar stands little chance to kill you. But, it's much more difficult to kill without receving some damage though. Let it pull you in to absorb it's laser if not then use the zapsats instead keep collading until you just outside it's range and then fire away to wear it down.

Avenger: The Avenger stands very little chance against the Jugger. Let it come to you when it attacks shield yourself and run off and fire in the general direction the Avenger will get scrap in no time.

Blade: This is a challaging fight for the Jugger. Pillbox let the Blade attack you it can't effectively fake you out so absorb the damage. When the Blade comes close fire away until it ether escape or you destroy it.

Broodhome: This is one of two ships that are effective against you. Try to destroy their DOGIs before your denergized or your Broodhome fodder. Try to chase it when you get close blast away and try to purposely get in the line of fire to renergize your shields.

Cruiser: This ship stands very little chance against you simply absorb the nukes and engage it till it's within range then blast it to atoms.

Dreadnought:Go and engage the Dreadnought head-on It's fighters are you greatest threat try to blast them away and let it fusion bolt you to renergize you in no time. Then fire when the Dreadnought is rechanging  it's battery if there are no fighters are harssing you.

Drone: The Drone is a joke it stands virtially no chance against you. It's cone will simply reenergize your shields. You attack does penerate the cone but, not very well so it will require many blasts but, it will bite the dust eventally.

Eluder: This is the second ship that is effective against you. Eluder's BUTTs are very trickly to judge if they are going to hit you or not. So expect some lost of energy and crew. Try forcing the Eluder to fight around the Planet this is also haphazard for the Jugger to do as well.
These battles require patence and skill but, you should stand some chance against the Eluder.

Fury: This fight is very annoying the best way to win is reliae on your turning rate to fire away to discourge the Fury to apporch you if the player makes a misteak you can score a hit or two. The best way to fight is orbit the planet by forcing the Fury to gravity wipe into your direction to attack and shield against a conuter attack this requires quick reflex though.

Guardian: This is a difficult battle but, it's possible to crush the Guardian. Although it's comet doesn't renergrize the Utwig's shield. It will protect you against it's attack. The turning rate of the Jugger is key to blast it when the comet comes. When the Guardian decides to bubble you try to hit by the bubbles but, the chaoic nature of the bubble especially in small doses can denergize you so be careful.  If the Guardian blazes away from danger if you pursue it then try to the planet trick to force it come close enough for you attack it.

Jugger: The one with the best reflexes wins this fight.

Marauder: The Marauder is Jugger fodder. The blades launch and travel too slowly to get a lucky hit. They also track when you get near easly renergizing your shields. The FRIED gives you full power when absorbed. Just go and pursue the Marauder head on like the Dreadnought repeat the cycle of firing when the Marauder is changing it's battery and when it attacks put up your sheilds.

Mauler: This fight requires quick reflexs and a good eye on where the Mauler shot is going. Let the Mauler blast you purposely to renergzied your shields and when it propels back to you blast it to damage until it's destroyed.

Nemesis: Another challaging fight for the Jugger. Just run and blast the Nemesis's marines to pieces if the pliot releases them depending on what range some may get on board. If manage to kill most of the Nemesis crew off then finish it by orbiting the planet forcing it to attack you. Be careful of the Nemesis's RPG the projective travels very fast it can hit you before you can put up you sheids.

Well, I'm getting tried of typing maybe, I'll contiune in another time.    




Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Chrispy on September 06, 2003, 07:24:38 am
i didnt mean any offence to the ship, or the guy who brought it up. if any was taken, may i take this oppertunaty to appologise.
i was just trying to contribute to the description of the talents of the orz nemasis.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on September 06, 2003, 08:03:58 am
Quote
Well, I'm getting tried of typing maybe, I'll contiune in another time.

Argh. Continue now! I have yet to be effective with an Utwig versus the Slylandro. Tell me how you beat it. The slylandro spins around me faster than I can keep up and its fire is haphazard enough to run my shields down.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on September 06, 2003, 09:07:36 am
Yes but he do it close. If you have good reflexes you will destroy it easily. The probe is fast, but not enough to dodge bullets from close distance.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: bigfoot256 on September 06, 2003, 11:24:02 am
Heh heh, my favourite would be the Spathi. It will sometimes be a loooong battle, but I've beaten Dreadnoughts with it.

Basically the only strategy:

RUNRUNRUNRUNRUNFIREFIREFIRERUNRUNRUNRUN... and so on and so forth. :D


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Chrispy on September 06, 2003, 10:17:16 pm
i find that the spathi is best aganst ships like the ur-quan and kohr-ah.what u have to do it sorta weev in and out and fire missiles at the right time. U can beat almost anything slower than u like this (orz, druuge)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: PakoPako on September 07, 2003, 09:02:00 am
Before I begin, I must wax melancholy for a moment:

NECRO-99: Blazer mode can be outrun by at least FIVE ships. You said three, and listed four. Ahead of the Druuge at full recoil speed, there's the fastest ship in the game: Umgah in full reverse.
The Torch, on full afterburners, is also pretty fast.

SPURK: The Utwig can turn and flank down a Probe. But the Probe has a good chance of closing in and doing at least some damage.

And here's something I need to get off my chest.
I compiled a Speed Team for the PC SC2, and I find that while similar, the UQM speed rating is a little different.

Fastest Ships:
1. Umgah (Reverse)
2. Druuge (Recoil)
3. Thraddash (Afterburn)
4. Pkunk
5. Andro (Comet), Slylando
6. TransFormer (Y-Form)
7. Spathi
8. Arilou, ZoqFot, Supox
9. Syreen, Utwig
10. ORZ, Shofixti

And now, my personal favorite: the SPATHI ELUDER.
I like it not only because it can keep up with the rest of the best (Guardian/Blazer, Terminator, Jugger, Blade, Fury, X-form...) but because people have written about the rest of the best. ::)

(+) Large crew, front and rear firing, good range, speedy
(¬) Slow battery regeneration, low damage
(those two combined kills any "threat factor" Spathi may have)

VS Dreadnought
All great tactics involve running away. This is no different. You have to lull the enemy, computer or human, to chase you and rain BUTTs all day. If they stay still and try to pillbox, the Spathi is maneuverable enough to get past a swarm of fighters by either shooting them with the main weapon or letting them crash into things and fire inbetween the Dreadnaught's slow turns. The range of their Fusion blast is equal to that of your BUTT, but because your BUTTs are homing, feel free to keep your distance. It'll be even easier if they try to chase you.

VS Podship
The Eluder is fast enough to sometimes make the Mycon run into their own Plasma. The Mycon user will most likely use a gravity whip to their advantage, but if you can get to him before he reaches the planet, the Eluder's BUTT missiles can still hit them as you fly out of the range of their plasma. If not, predict when the Mycon will pass by and give'em a taste of the main weapon. If the Podship is trying to stay away and regenerate crew, don't wait. Charge in. If it insists on running, you should still be able to nick it with your main gun. Normally, it will try to slow down and shoot at you, but the Podship only gets 2 shots at best. A good Spathi pilot can weave past the first bolt while it's still small, empty it's main gun into the Podship, and run away when he fires the 2nd. If you wish, you can also try to keep the screen at maximum zoom if the Podship is trying to go for another slingshot, hoping he blindsides into the planet.

VS Discriminator
A classic mirror match. Humans and computers won't chase each other successfully (the BUTT isn't fast enough to hit another Eluder) and ironically may end up playing chicken.  ;D
The CPU in all versions seems stupid enough to use BUTTs more than its main weapon during high-speed manuevers and runs into them a lot.

VS Guardian
Abso-Poso-Tivo-FREAKIN'-Lutely Lovely.
Try to get them to chase you and fire BUTTs at MAXIMUM RANGE.  Against a Human that don't want to chase you, I suggest using the main gun. One or two bullets might get through the field. By far, the hardest part isn't getting past the bubble-field, but avoiding the Comet form. If it turns into a comet, just turn & burn hoping asteroids or a planet will get inbetween. You NEED to use the grav-whip to attain enough speed to even MATCH the speed of a Comet-form. If you get out of this fight alive, consider yourself lucky not have bumped into an Asteroid during the slingshot. And don't even think that once the Blazer runs out of fuel you can get a lick in. It'll regenerate and CRUSH you in seconds. The Comet form is as fast as a Slylandro in UQM.
Ah. And a bug I found when playing with a dummy human. It may have been the key combination I had, the fact that I had a twitchy joystick plugged in as an alternative control, but whenever I had the Mauler shoot & furnace, the Androsynth would turn into a comet for a split-second, using 3 units of fuel, then revert even if it had a full battery.

VS Intruder
At the start, just look to RUN AWAY. Once you get out of its proximity hyperwarp, the VUX is Swiss Cheese. While limpets have good range, and the VUX may wish to slingshot itself to get a wider spread, the Spathi is quick enough to dode and fire a BUTT salvo intercept.

VS Avenger
I dislike fighting the new UQM Ilwrath AIs with an Eluder. You are forced to get in close and try to "aim" with the main weapon as BUTTs will not track. The main gun isn't so bad either as its fast enough to strafe well. If an Ilwrath is trying to dog you down, fire a BUTT near its face. A CPU might de-cloak for a second and allow BUTTs to home in. A Human might not know exactly where they are and risk taking the hit.

VS Drone
BUTT missiles can sometimes wind up going around their anti-matter cone, but always BEWARE not to face the rear of a Drone. It can almost teleport next to you (that Reverse is the fastest form of movement in the game outside an actual teleport) and eat a chunk of crew.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VS Broodhome
A pretty hard match. A Broodhome can try and pillbox you by launching DOGIs to keep you away and out of fuel, and using it's INSANE range & shards to hit you. Against a passive opponent, you have to weave past the DOGIs, rush in while they're still turning, and strafe them with either weapon on the pass. Against a more aggressive player who slingshots while shooting, it can seem pretty hectic with all the shards and DOGIs in space. It's unlikely that they'll get a clean hit against you, though and, hopefully, the Broodhome has difficulty telling where the planet is. Beware though, the shards still hurt and you need to find a way to get close to use your weapons. Due to the large crew complement of the Chenjesu, try to remain patient as you chip away with BUTTs and bullets.

VS Terminator
Im-FREAKIN'-possible.
A good Yehat character can hold its fire until it gets a lock-on, conserving energy to use the shield. Try to see if the Terminator is going for a strafe, or just chasing you. If it's chasing you, you can TRY to launch a slow series of BUTTs and hope that it's battery is drained enough for one to connect. If you're feel lucky, fire off a BUTT to the side, psyching the opponent to use his shield early, then a long burst of your main weapon. If it looks like the Yehat is looking for the planet going for a strafe, stay the hell away. If you can anticipate when the Yehat will slingshot, you might be able to fire a spray and get in a bullet or two. But always beware of entering a dogfight. The spray the Yehat has is too concentrated, and it has enough energy to abosrb all your shots, regenerate, and fire off a few rounds before you regain your fuel. Best you can do is stay away, and hope you do them in with enough lucky shots and planet collisions.
Oh, and the UQM CPU cheats! It can initially turn on the shield for only 1 Battery unit. You can still psyche it out into using it's shield early though, but it's still insanely hard to get a hit in.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll have to test out the rest in UQM later, but nothing seems terribly tough for the Eluder except perhaps the Transform, Penetrator, and Nemesis.

-=PakoPako=-


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 07, 2003, 09:47:30 am
'll write up a VUX strategy list for yall.  This fits with the computer in awesome, but probably will work on human targets as well to some degree.  And this also assumes starting out with a VUX that has full crew, in terms of win possibility.

Key tactic for limpeting against any of the "easy limpet targets" I mention is to always run away and make them chase you.

Ur-Quan: You have no chance of winning this one, the best thing you can do if this ship warps in as a VUX is to get as many limpets on him as you can before you go down.

Orz: Almost no chance of winning this one.  If you can get a few limpets on him and get back towards him to blast him before the marines finish you off you might get a win, but usually the best you can do here is get a few limpets on the Orz.

Chmmr: Limpet-proof and you can't run away from him - all you can do is go in at an angle where his laser is not and blast away until you go down.

Mycon: Very nasty to fight.  You can usually stand off and blow away the plasma balls until you can find the planet to do a gravity whip to get some limpets on the Mycon so it can't run away from you.  Then you do the stand-off thing with the plasma balls until you get close.  The best thing for you is if he uses his crew regeneration special near you, otherwise you will get hit at least once or twice with plasma, but it is possible to win against this one.

Androsynth: The comet form is nasty and the bubbles aren't much better.  And even worse for you the limpets don't effect the comet form.  Basic thing you can do is try to graze him with shots as he flies by you and avoid the bubbles.  Very long fight, at least until Andy comets right into you.

Earthling: Punishing fight, but winnable.  You will likely get hit a few times with nukes.  First thing you do is find the planet and get a gravity whip.  While on the gravity whip, limpet away.  He'll PD some of them, but some will stick to him
(good news for you in both counts).  Get near him and laser away - limpet every once in a while to make him draw his power down in using the PD on the limpets.

Ilwrath: Good luck.  Usually I like to gravity whip and fling limpets in his general direction.  If one gets close he fires
and the others seek onto him.  Then since the Ilwrath will fire pointing towards you when uncloaked, you have to be a real
careful pilot and guess one of his wingtips and shoot away once you get enough limpets onto him.  He'll hurt you some, but you'll hurt him more.  Hint: the Ilwrath's always in the corner the opposite of you.

Chenjesu: Chenjesu by itself - easy fight.  Chenjesu with DOGIs - nasty fight.  Basically you see what your enemy is in this fight that makes it nasty - the DOGIs.  Gravity whip to get limpets into the Chenjesu - even he can outrun you.  Then your next job is quite tricky - get rid of the DOGIs while staying close enough to limpet the main ship (he fires and drains his battery so he can't create any more DOGIs - usually he has 2 or 3 out by the time I'm ready to get to the main ship) - what I do is get next to the Chenjesu and fire a limpet as I turn and thrust towards the ship - I end up going in a circle and the Chenjesu usually wipes out the DOGIs itself.  Once all the DOGIs are gone, keep sending a limpet every couple of seconds to keep the Chenjesu's power drained and then when you have full power, laser it.  Nasty fight.

VUX: Reflexes and observation.  Whichever one gets the drop wins, and even the winner loses by getting limpets to deal with for the next fight.

Arilou: Hard fight, basically limpet-proof - he teleports before they can hit.  Launch a limpet to keep him away from your
backside, but mainly stay towards the front and laser (he will teleport likely).  Repeat and win.

Shofixti: You can get limpets on this guy if you work hard enough.  The problem is that glory device of his, since you can't laser him without getting in range of it.  You can win with a full complement after he uses it, but if not, consider your ship gone.  Lose a ship or win at a cost with this guy.

Mmrnmhrm: Hard fight, but basically winnable.  Wierd quirk here is that the X and Y form are both independent of each other when it comes to limpets, so you will have to limpet in both forms.  Limpet and slow down the Y-form first or he'll pick you to death with the missiles.  Gravity whip and limpet as he flies by a few times to slow him down - then figure out a way to get behind him.  Stay away though as he will change to the X-form turn rather fast and blow you away.  Try to keep limpeting the ship, and a few will catch his X-form to slow him down that way.  Then charge up and blow him away.

Slylandro: hard fight to deal with for the speed.  Limpet to keep him away for most part - gravity whip helps.  You can
either get limpets on him (very hard but possible) and slow it down or fire out a limpet and turn a direction and laser as he
flies by.  Pillboxing is your best friend on this one.

Pkunk: hard fight, same as the Slylandro basically, but harder to get limpets on.  The pillboxing technique with the limpets (fire one limpet, track and fire) works the best to get a win here.  I would even question the wisdom of trying to limpet the Pkunk down because when a re-generation happens, the limpets disappear, making all of your work a waste.

Kohr-Ah: difficult but very winnable.  Run in between the firing angles as you limpet away and get a few on him.  Then the
hardest part of the fight - you have to get behind him - the blades travel faster than you can so you can't avoid them.  Once you get behind him, you have two threats, blades and the corona.  The tracking speed of the blades is actually fast enough to threaten you so you have to move and lead the blades away from you.  Limpet occasionally to make him use his corona and then blast away when you get enough energy (be watchful of those blades though).

Druuge: Easy fight, if you don't get in the sights of that cannon - he's a sharpshooter that rarely misses.  Hard and nasty fight, because often he does.  Stay away from the firing angles of the cannon, fire your limpets, some will hit - this makes him drift and unable to right himself...have him drift by you into range and laser him.

Supox: easy fight - get limpets on him and he's done, always run away when you limpet.  The limpets will also keep him away from firing on you for most part.

Umgah: easy fight - get limpets on him and avoid when he zips in...then pilot in a circle around his anti-matter field and
laser away.

Spathi: easy fight - get limpets on him and he's done, always run away when you limpet.  Harder though because he's a threat from 360 degrees - keep out of range, charge up, fly in and nail him.

Utwig: easy fight, as long as you can get enough limpets before he gets to full speed - if he gets in range of you with his guns you're done.  Fly around him and limpet until you get on his backside, let him discharge his shield (he uses 2 points of energy to shield and only gets back 1 if you tap him with your laser, if your human enemy doesnt let the shield go all the way like the computer does) and then discharge your laser into him.

Syreen: easy fight, get limpets on the ship and it's done.  Main problem you have is the siren call, when you go into range to blow it away, but the only annoyance you'll have is picking up your crew after this ship dies.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Zebranky food.  Get limpets on him, fly in, blast away.

Yehat: a little bit harder fight than the last few.  Very easy to limpet down, but you have to get through that shield of his
to hurt him, and he's only really lets it down when he fires.  True stalemate here almost.  Usually I charge up, drift around
to his front, and fire away when he decides to fire.  Hurts half of my crew in the end, but the Yehat goes down.  If you have
a small complement of VUX on your ship, have your crew say their last rites because you're losing a ship unless you can get him to drift into the planet repeatedly.

Thraddash: wait for him to come to you, then limpet and laser away.  Cannon fodder to most all species and the VUX is no
exception.

Melnorme: easy to limpet, harder if he hits you with the confusion ray or charges a ball up to red.  In that case stay out of range and limpet and it will eventually let it go.  Fly in, avoid his gun and fire away.  Easy fight overall.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on September 07, 2003, 05:36:28 pm
Pakopako the cpu doesn't cheat. I can do it myself but I am not a computer so I can't do it forever. Shield cost 3 units. The yehat regenerate 2 units. 3-2=1 The yehat shield isn't like the jugger ship. If you hold the special move key it will keep draining the battery for no use. A good pilot can use it like a computer does by pressing the special move key again in the split sec the shield turns off. Against 3-2=1. Ok pako?


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 08, 2003, 12:29:11 am
Quote
Ilwrath: Good luck.  Usually I like to gravity whip and fling limpets in his general direction.  If one gets close he fires
and the others seek onto him.  Then since the Ilwrath will fire pointing towards you when uncloaked, you have to be a real
careful pilot and guess one of his wingtips and shoot away once you get enough limpets onto him.  He'll hurt you some, but you'll hurt him more.  Hint: the Ilwrath's always in the corner the opposite of you.


Actually there's always room for improvement (any suggestions on better tips for battles, bring them on).  

I played against the Ilwrath a whole lot more just now and figured out a way to beat them that brings the fight down to "easy".  You do the gravity whip and limpet (they always come out the front straight ahead when the Ilwrath is cloaked).  Basically you treat it like sonar and just blanket an area and where you see them stop or he uncloaks to fire is where he is at.  Get enough limpets on him he won't be able to move much from that spot, so the cloak becomes useless to him - he ain't moving far from the spot he's in.  Charge up, come in close and fire a limpet so you know his position.  Inevitably the Ilwrath will try to fire on you, but you circle around and get a clear shot on it's side.

Worst news for the VUX against the Ilwrath is the proximity warp on this one oddly enough.  Won 5 battles in a row rather easily on this one after I figured this tactic out compared to about 3-4 out of 5 on the other tactic I posted.  Please keep the ship tactics coming!


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 08, 2003, 10:22:59 pm
Pako: Relax about the ships I mentioned that can outrun Blazer. I know that I forgot to change three to four, I'll fix that, but with the Umgah and Thraddash, I've never given them the chance to use their speed powers, they just die too damn fast.  :P (Usually noted, the Thraddash will 'burner charge you with their little pea-shooter, in which case you turn direction and bubble. They fly right through.)


Title: About the Zapsats
Post by: Sage on September 09, 2003, 01:27:05 pm
Taken from the source:

Quote
SattPtr->hit_points = 10;

Now you know.


Title: About people like sage, nic and many more
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on September 09, 2003, 05:21:50 pm
You always have to know everything don't you?

(unless it is about nic's wife. She is always right and he is wrong) ;D


Title: Re: About the Zapsats
Post by: Krulle on September 09, 2003, 05:47:43 pm
Quote
SattPtr->hit_points = 10;

Thanks, Sage.
It always felt like more hit_points the satelites have...
So i suppose, they have indefinite fire-power?
Seems okay regarding they must have a generator of their own.

Greetings,
Martin


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: TD on September 09, 2003, 06:11:22 pm
I like the Broodhome. Excellent at long range and pretty good up close.

It only has two real problems:
Not being able to run away from ships with powerful short range weapons due to its slow acceleration and turning speeds
Small fast ships getting in close behind, again due to its slow turning speed, although shards can normally take care of them.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on September 09, 2003, 09:57:51 pm
Quote
I like the Broodhome.[...]It only has two real problems:
Not being able to run away from ships with powerful short range weapons due to its slow acceleration and turning speeds
Small fast ships getting in close behind, again due to its slow turning speed, although shards can normally take care of them.

A third problem is if I do a rapid burst of shells, the energy recharge time is noticeably slow.

I remember playing SC1 one time where I found all the Precursor enhancements for my Chenjesu. Extra crew, Extra thrusters, Extra turning jets, extra dynamo, extra fuel. I was literally unstoppable.


Title: More strategy
Post by: Captain Smith on September 13, 2003, 03:45:21 pm
Mycon Strategy Guide
====================
I'll write up a Mycon strategy list for yall.  This fits with the computer in awesome, but probably will work on human targets as well to some degree.  And this also assumes starting out with a Mycon that has full crew, in terms of win
possibility.

Key tactic here is the gravity whip - you will need to do this lots.  As well, as long as you watch yourself, you can run
from a ship and fire - the plasma ball goes around your ship and back.  If you time it right, the opponent needs good
reaction time, and the computer won't have it.  Also be sure to use your crew regen when you have the time.


Ur-Quan: Hard fight.  You need to stay away from the fighters, which is possible.  Don't stay away from them you're done.  But as long as you can send 4 balls into the ship, you can win.

Orz: Easy fight.  Use the running trick, get them to chase you, launch two balls and he's done.

Chmmr: Nasty fight.  Best thing to do is launch two balls, and try to circle if you survive and see if you can send more
plasma balls into him and charge up.  About a 5% chance of winning this one on awesome computer, but it's possible.

Mycon: Basically a skill fight (he with the most skillz wins), but easy enough to win against the computer.  Gravwhip when you get the first chance, block your opponents plasma if you know it will hit.   You'll get ample chance to use your crew regen in this fight.  Set it up so when you get close to send plasma so it will hit the other Mycon.

Earthling: See Mycon description.  This fight is similar - gravwhip, let loose plasma when close.

Ilwrath: Hard fight.  The Ilwrath can go faster than you, and there's no real trick to be able to reliably hit it.  Either
gravwhip and let loose when it decides to fire (you bounce away so he can't hurt you much), or line up close in a line
(Ilwrath is on the opposite side of the screen, draw a line).

Chenjesu: Easy to moderate fight.  Run away and turn, staying in between the firing angles, hold down the fire button until he goes away.  If you can get a grav whip and stay away from the ship, that will help.  The main thing is to keep the DOGIs off of you or you will have a big problem with this one.

VUX: Easy fight, let loose plasma when he comes in close, or if you are fortunate enough to be far away, just keep your
distance and launch away.

Arilou: Hard fight.  I use the running technique and be careful.  Sometimes the AI tries to shoot the plasma to dissipate it and pays the price.  If the Arilou gets close to you you're done.

Shofixti: Easy fight, use the running trick and he'll catch his death.

Mmrnmhrm: Easy to moderate fight.  Gravwhip and time your shots so they run into him.  Use your crew regen as necessary.  Basically you're fighting the Y-form on this one.

Slylandro: hard fight to deal with for the speed but possible.  Usually I either gravwhip lots or use the running trick - but
with the speed it's very easy for this one to burn you.  Only let one plasma ball loose at a time on this one to keep him off
your back just in case.

Pkunk: See Slylandro - same pretty much applies.

Kohr-Ah: difficult but very winnable.  Keep in his firing angles and away from him, and fire one ball at a time to make him
use his corona.  If you can fire two balls and know they'll both have a chance to hit, go for it though.  About a 50% win
rate for me right now on this one - probably #4 on the most difficult list next to the Arilou, Pkunk, and Slylandro.

Druuge: Easy fight.  Stay back out of his sights and let him try to follow you.  Launch plasma 2 at a time and he'll go down.

Supox: Easy fight.  Use the running trick and he'll catch plasma.

Umgah: Easy fight.  Wait for him to zip and come to you (stay moving though).  Fire your plasma close enough to you so you know they'll track when he stops to try to fry you with his anti-matter cone.

Spathi: Easy fight.  Use the running trick.  Hint: watch for when he starts to turn around and then continue chasing you -
this is the best time to send some plasma in the coward's lives.

Utwig: Hard to impossible fight.  You have to discharge the shields.  What I do to make it possible is make Utwig chase me at full speed and then I time it so a plasma ball goes behind him.  He discharges his shield trying to stop it.  The timing needs to be precise to make it work though.  If you make it work and stay away from his gun, all it takes is launching plasma into it at will.

Syreen: Easy fight - use the running trick.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Zebranky food.  Use the running trick.

Yehat: Hard to Impossible.  What I do here is make sure I charge up fully and then go to a full stop...when he comes in and fires, I thrust slightly forward and let two plasma balls loose.  If you time it right, the Yehat blows up and you lose half your crew.  If not, you just lost a ship.

Thraddash: wait for him to come to you, and launch plasma at point blank range.

Melnorme: Easy fight, just stay away from his gun and launch plasma at will.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 13, 2003, 03:51:33 pm
Noticed the Androsynth was missing from my list just now:  That one is an easy fight - wait until he comets and then face him and wait until he gets very close (almost ready to start bouncing into you) and launch two plasma balls.  He'll go down.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Yehat_Sympathizer on September 13, 2003, 05:32:46 pm
Quote
Orz Nemisis is the best. About the only threat to it is the Avatar and the Guardian.


Actually, an ORZ can win against an avatar pretty easy. Human or computer.

The ORZ have a pretty good cannon, that sometimes penetrates the ZAP sats and hits the avatar, and sometimes hit the ZAP sats themselves. If the Chmmr don't use their special weapon, the ORZ can win on that alone.

On the other hand, Any decent Chmmr player will use their special, right? And the ORZ isn't fast enough with thrusters to get away, but the nemesis has a very good turning rate. All you have to do is rotate the cannon backwards, and every time you're attracted by the avatar just turn left or right to break it. Keep you're thrusters up to resist, as well. after some shots you take out 2 or three ZAPSATS and you can start sending marines.  

Encounters like this are a lot of fun. You have a very good chance, but only if you use your head. I think many players already know this, but I don't see it posted very often.

Another rewarding battle of this type is Supox blade vs Chmmr.
If you want a tough one try the pkunk or the Yehat. with those you have to stay focused, and nothing is mechanical...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 14, 2003, 07:53:10 am
More melee strategy

Mmrnmhrm Strategy Guide
=======================
I'll write up a Mmrnmhrm strategy list for yall.  This fits with the computer in awesome, but probably will work on human targets as well to some degree.  And this also assumes starting out with a Mmrnmhrm that has full crew, in terms of win possibility.

Key tactic here is basically knowing which form is the best for you.  In this sense, you change and use your best strength against whatever the opponent is.  Also, you get the chance to merge those strengths, usually you use the Y-form's speed to set up the X-form on a strafe run.

Ur-Quan: Moderate fight - takes some skill but easy if you do have the skills.  You need to stay away from the fighters and use your Y-form and if you get the chance to come in at a good angle where you won't get shot fly in and strafe him with the X-form.

Orz: Moderate to difficult fight.  Stay away from the marines in Y-form, drift and point towards the Orz, go to X-form and turn if you must.  Try to strafe in X-form if you get the chance to take the Orz out.  X-form is a sitting duck for the marines.

Chmmr: Impossible fight.  Best bet is to drift in in X-form and hurt him as much as you can.  You can try setting up strafing runs off the Y-form, but very difficult to do with the Chmmr's special.

Mycon: Easy fight.  Change to Y-form and trail the Mycon and set up a final strafe run with the X-form to finish it.

Earthling: Easy fight.  Same strategy as the Mycon.

Ilwrath: difficult fight.  Stay in the X-form and he cooks you, the Y-form missiles don't track.  The best thing I've figured out to do is use the Y-form, speed up and change into the X-form, and catch the Ilwrath as he fires on you.

Chenjesu: Easy fight.  Same strategy as described under the Mycon works here.

VUX: Easy fight.  Be ready to change to Y-form when he warps in to get away.  Feel free to stay in Y-form and paste him.  If you get a limpet on you as you run away in Y-form, you won't lose much, but if you get one in X-form you lose lots of usefulness.  Mmrnhrm is unique as both forms are independent of one another as far as the limpet effects go.

Arilou: Easy fight.  Stay in X-form and wait for him to come in and laser him down.

Shofixti: Moderately difficult fight.  Stay in X-form, you can wipe him out quick, but you get the glory device.  Y-form keeps you safe from the glory device, but the missiles are very inaccurate when it comes to hitting this guy.

Mmrnmhrm: Easy fight.  Stay in X-form and come towards the other one.  Fake like you're going to run with Y-form (turn away, thrust slightly) in front of him.  Turn around after he changes to Y-form and then blast away.  Repeat as necessary.

Slylandro: Moderate fight.  Stay in X-form and wait for him to come to you and blast away.  Go to Y-form he burns you.  This is the first ship I was able to figure out how to beat the Mmrnmhrm with, and this is what I did - waited until he changed to Y-form and then ran after him and burned him.

Pkunk: Moderate fight.  See Slylandro for the strategy.

Kohr-Ah: Very difficult.  He has insane range on the blades, and coupled with your lack of control in the Y-form, you can get hit by the blades easily.  The Y-form missiles will work in getting the computer to discharge the corona.  You can either stay in Y-form or try to do strafe runs in X-form, but again with the blades it makes it costly, but can pay off well if you have the skill to stay on his side in X-form and blast away.

Druuge: Easy fight.  Stay back out of his sights and let him try to follow you.  Launch missles at him in Y-form and then turn in X-form if you have to.  Whatever you do don't try chasing him in Y-form or you'll get blasted.

Supox: Easy to moderate fight.  I usually stay in X-form because I've never been able to do much with him in Y-form (he's got the speed to stay behind you so the missiles don't hit).  He usually drifts around and gets close enough that you can blast him though.  Good skill battle.

Umgah: Easy fight.  Stay in Y-form and fire your missles and wait for him to zip so you can run.  If you can catch him and strafe in X-form do it (or catch him zipping in), but the X-form doesn't have the speed to hang with the Umgah (his regular engines are faster than X-form).

Spathi: Moderate to difficult fight.  Faster than the X-form so he can BUTT you all day if you stay that way, but has the speed to avoid you in the Y-form, for most part.  Usually I use as much timing as I can and drift as X-form after I run a while in Y-form.  The Spathi does get near you long enough to blast him when you do that.  Another good skill fight.

Utwig: Easy to moderate fight.  You have to discharge the shields, stay in Y-form and pelt him with missiles, he'll discharge his shields or get hurt.  If his shields are gone, feel safe to do a strafe run in X-form.  

Syreen: Easy fight.  Stay in X-form and blast away, use your people as a decoy if necessary.  Y-form doesn't help much here again because of the speed issue.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Easy fight.  Same strategy as the Syreen.

Yehat: Hard to Impossible.  Shields against your X-form fire (and he can just outrun you turn around and blast you if you're not very careful), and Y-form fire doesn't help either.  I'm usually able as a pilot to stay in X-form, get a few shots against him, maybe get 1/2 to 3/4 of his crew down before I go down.

Thraddash: Easy fight.  Wait for him to come to you in X-form and blast away.

Melnorme: Easy fight, chase him in Y-form, staying away from the guns, then change to X-form to finish him.

Androsynth: Easy to moderate fight.  Go to Y-form and he'll burn you.  Stay in X-form, get your shots as much as possible and stay away from the bubbles.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 24, 2003, 10:47:46 pm
Ah yes, I'll do my second favorite ship:

Slylandro Probe

+: Fast, turns on a dime (literally), inertaless drive, moderate range, rapid fire, single shot can do up to 4 damage, tumbling form makes it slightly harder to hit, immune to Syreen Song, and its one of only three ships that talk (Dread and Nemesis) ;)
-: Constant movement can lead to problems, needs to eat asteroids to regenerate energy, mid-crappy crew.

General Tacs/Notes:
-Sit-And-Spin (SAS). Camp near the planet (opposite your foe) and twirl around and around.  They come to you, but are force to navigate the gravity well. When they do...

-Ambush: Zap the crap out of foes when they are navigating the gravity well, or...

-Bump: If the ship is bigger (Dread, Maraud, Trader), whap into it when it is near the planet, it will either lose velocity and fall victim to the gravity, or, if you're quick, bump their side and make CERTAIN to get a hit. Bigger ship = bigger hole.

-Latch on: The tumbling body of the Probe makes it able to stick to ships, stopping both from moving. Manuver towards the enemy, and wait till you are perpendicular with the ship, then ram it. There's a good chance you'll stick.

-Multihit: Upon firing, change course toward the ship at an angle. If the tip of the bolt doesn't hit but the body of the bolt does, it'll score damage, and the bolt will stay "alive". I've done up to 4 damage doing this (flyby past a Syreen that had a grav-whip, then turned to follow).

-Chaos Lightning: Your shots follow NO set pattern, except to autoaim in general at your opponent. This can be used for many purposes, as I note below.

-Hit and Run: Probes aren't usually meant for a firefight. Buzz your opponent and give them a few rakings of lightning. You'll wear them down eventually.

-Confusing Piloting: Don't ever stay in a straight line when fighting the computer, unless you're going for an asteroid. You'll drive it to drink if it's a close range ship.

-Quick Reverse: Remember, pushing forward will 180 the Probe. Use this to your advantage.

Specialized Tactics

-Avatar: Tricky, but possible. Lucky for you, their tractor beam won't pull you, and your lightning has a slightly better maximum range than the zap-sats. Try to cook at least 2 of the sats before going for the Avatar itself. Another trick is to  SAS near the planet, opposite side of the Av. It'll come rushing in, and when it does, fire while still spinning, then quickly fly the opposite direction. That lightning can reach a good distance!

-Avenger: Damn cloaking device. If you see the screen closing fast, angle yourself about 45 degrees off the collision course, and when he uncloaks to fire, QUICKLY reverse direction and zap em.

-Blade: Chase it. You can't box the Blade because it turns too well, so just do chases/flyby's until it (or you) are history.

-Broodhome. Heheheheh. Let the DOGI's come, put yourself between the Brood and them, and fire. They won't move (no direct line of fire, the Probe has no Fore/Aft to speak of) and they'll probably get sizzled. Wait for the Brood to let loose a DOGI, and be near. When it does, move in for a few quick zaps and run before the ak-ak drills you.

-Crusier: Advance, avoid the nukes, and zap. A fun trick is trying to guide the nukes back into the Crusier. Meheheh. ;D

-Dreadnought: Same tactic described for the Broodhome's DOGI's apply to the Dread's fighters. They sizzle REAL easy, and the lightning bolt doesn't dissipate when it hits one of them, so you can drop a good section of them in short order. Once the Dread stops sending fighters (you've made sure to stay the hell away from it during this time, right?), flank it, latch on and unload. If it doesn't destroy it, be patient: an asteroid is BOUND to come by. When it does, recharge and unload until it's history. Another trick is SAS near the planet opposite it and fry when it's manuvering the gravity well. Your bound to get a few lucky hits.

-Drone: Dance around the poor sap, gleefully shocking them to bits the whole time. Don't get too close, lest you be anti-mattered. If it zips towards, reverse direction and give it a few licks if it flies by. If it runs, let it. Just catch back up and repeat dancing manuvers. If you can latch, more power to ya. (funny as hell if they zip when you do, looks like the Drone is trying to butt-check the Probe.)

-Eluder: You're faster. You do more damage with less refresh time between shots. Those little dingly-balls coming out of the ship make GREAT latch-points. Evade the BUTTS, latch if you're still crewed well, and destroy with impunity.

-Fury: Let it chase you. Zap, Reborn, Repeat.

-Guardian: If they blaze at you, run away and cook them. Stay away from clouds, as spinny body + chaos(tm) homing = pain. If it doesn't blaze, hit-and-run.

-Intruder: If it warps in, keep moving! Those limpets will give you gravity. Gravity = bad for a Probe. Dance outside the laser range, making it waste precious power, and when it's exhausted, zap it. DO NOT latch onto the Intruder, as you will pick up substantial amounts of limpets.

-Jugger: chaos lightning plays hell with non-regenerative shielding. ;D Keep poking him with lightning (even if it does connect with the shield, all he gets back is one point of energy, exactly the cost to start it up in the first place) and beware those quad-cannons. They'll chew you up fast if you're not careful. If you can flank (somehow), latch on to the back and zap with all haste.

-Marauder: Dangerous. Lure the blades that are near you into the planet or sacrifice an asteroid to allieveate yourself of one, then try to get a few zaps in. DO NOT latch, you will be F.R.I.E.D. Another trick is to SAS opposite the planet, and hope it hits, or zap it when it's manuvering the well.

-Mauler: Mwah. Your contorting body makes Mauler shells very, very innacurate. Dance around him to force him to burn crew trying to pop you, and when he's low, coup de grace. Another fun one is to get it going full speed, then reverse direction and latch on to the big, form fitting engine. Then listen as they sizzle.

-Nemesis: Avoid Marines like the plague. You can try the Brood/Dread minion-zapping trick, but they soak up 4 damage before they die (3? not sure.) They turn fast, but you move faster. Dance around, making the Nemesis rotate it's cannon, and zap when you can.

-Penetrator: Mwah. Their song doesn't suck crew, so get close, latch onto the tailfins if you can and zap away.

-Podship: Mwah. Let it fire, then using the circle-around tactic described by Spurk in his Skiff description. It'll waste itself. If it doesn't, help it along with a few 20,000 volt shots.

-Probe: Hehehehe, the most insane fight I've ever done. It's all reflexes. No real tactics here, get close and get it to chase you. Whoever has more crew/bigger battery wins.

-Scout: Little pest. If you're within range of your lightning, you're in death-range of the Glory Device. A lose-lose situation.

-Skiff: Toast. You have better reach/better engines. It'll lose eventually, just pester it tons and zap it when it doesn't 'port away.

-Stinger: Flank and fry. Beware the tongue.

-Terminator: Its all timing here. Flank, or try to flank as best you can, latch on, and zap. They can't shield fast enough. Wait for an asteroid, and repeat. If you get caught by the guns, it's good night, gracie.

-Torch: It can get to moving as fast as you at top jet-speed. Run parallel and crisp it's 8 meager crew. DONT LATCH. The jets still move it and you'll pay the price if you do. I tried this one time, managed to latch on to the side of the Torch (a buddy of mine.) I was low on energy, and didn't quite kill all of his crew. He jets, and runs me square into the planet. Ow.

-Trader: If you get tagged by the Confusion Ray, it's over. Flank, latch, fry, wait, recharge, repeat. Also, if you're feeling mean, SAS opposite it near the planet and ambush it when it's manuvering the gravity.

-Transformer: X form: Try to flank and latch. Those laser's will chew you up and spit you out. Y form: Chase. It turns too slowly to respond and the missile's homing system/turn radius suck as bad as the ship's. Zap at will.

Well, thats all I can think of for the Probe. I might do another one later, but on what ship?  ???


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on September 24, 2003, 11:02:49 pm
Quote
and its one of only three ships that talk (Dread and Nemesis) ;)

one of four (Fury)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 24, 2003, 11:04:36 pm
Man, how could I forget the taunts? Thanks for the cover. :)

Shows how much I use the Fury... :P


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Wren on September 26, 2003, 08:42:27 am
Quote

Androsynth Guardian

+: Relatively large crew for it's size, bubbles make excellent shielding, and of course the DOGI trick.
-: Slow, relatively poor turning radius, relatively slow energy regeneration.
Notes: This ship is an excellent blend of offence and defense. Using the bubbles while being chased makes opponents turn away, and the Blazer mode can only be outrun by four ships, the Arilou, the Slylandro, the Pkunk and the Druuge @ full backblast speed.


You're forgetting the Thraddash Torch. It's actually the fastest ship in the game when the Reeunk afterburner is used.

I think the Mmrnmhrm is also faster when in high speed mode as well.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on September 26, 2003, 04:46:25 pm
Not really. It goes like this(I think)

All except for skiff and slylandro (latch on it diffrent with other ships)
Pkunk(only against Avatar)
Umgah(reverse)
Thraddash(full speed)
Mauler(full recoil)
Pkunk(not against an avatar)
Slylandro
Mmrhrmn

and so on...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 26, 2003, 04:53:20 pm
He is right there, I use the Thraddash all the time against Androsynth - it's one of the easy slam dunk battles the Traddash gets in the game.  Wait until the comet happens and chases after the Thraddash, then fire the afterburner and burn the Synth.  ;D

Quote

You're forgetting the Thraddash Torch. It's actually the fastest ship in the game when the Reeunk afterburner is used.



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Chrispy on September 26, 2003, 07:24:09 pm
i use yehat against androsynth.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Eran Mekhmandarov on September 26, 2003, 09:33:44 pm
Actualy, you should try the Drone against the Avatar. talk about speed...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 26, 2003, 11:21:38 pm
Smith: My Guardian strat was written for player vs. player, with most elements being able to be brought to P vs. C. This, obviously, isn't one of them. :P

Add: Yes, to what Chrispy said, the Yehat are a devil to take down with the Androsynth. :(
Another trick that I found, however, is to orbit the planet. When the Term gets close, cloud and whip away, but aim about 45 degrees off their bow. Most players will fire at you, lowering energy to shield vs. the bubbles, and will also have to navigate the gravity well, which will be bubble filled (them with low/no batt as well). You may get hit a few, but the Terminator turns too slow to be able to avoid all the bubbles (or a crash with the planet!)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 27, 2003, 05:00:36 am
Supox Strategy Guide
=======================
More strategy list fun.  Thought I'd do a writeup on the Supox.  This fits with the computer in awesome, but probably will work on human targets as well to some degree.  And this also assumes starting out with a Supox that has full crew, in terms of win possibility.

The key tactic here is summed up in three words: outthink, outmaneuver, Outreact.  Basically that's the Supox strength -
you have a very capable propulsion system, basically this is the Arilou of the new SC2 ships - although much harder to pilot.  That's the key thing, you must master the propulsion system or the Supox is bug-squash to about everything in the game.  This means control and drifting around in every direction.  In addition, you have to be very observant and very reactive to what is going on in the game.  This is one of the most active ships (if not THE most active ships) in terms of # of moves used and reaction speed and time - I can get a bit tired finger-wise after playing this ship a while.  This is also one of the ships you have to be most patient with - you will have some very long battles with this ship if you are to succeed.
 Interesting note with this ship: this is one of the ships that are easier to use against the capital ships (top 7 in points) than the other ships (all those fights are easy to moderate).

Ur-Quan: Easy fight.  Use your directional propulsion system either to help blow away the fighters, or what I like to do is
maneuver the fighters between me and the ship, avoid the fusion bolts and just send shots into the main ship using the
backwards drive.

Orz: Easy to moderate fight.  Try to stay away from the main ship and maneuver around to wipe out the marines as they are sent your way.  If you do get the chance to shoot the main ship, be very observant of the cannon.

Chmmr: Moderate fight.  Use your propulsion system and attack the satellites first.  If you have a full battery you can get at least one hit in on each cycle.  Attack towards the direction coming at you (usually right side).  Then when enough of the satellites go down attack the main ship.  Watch out though because the special seems to get stronger when you are firing on the ship.

Mycon: Easy to moderate fight.  Chase it down, dodge the plasma and shoot away.  Actually the Supox is also one of the ships you can use to steer the plasma into the Mycon quite well.

Earthling: Easy fight.  Avoid the missiles (easy enough) come in and shoot away.

Ilwrath: Easy fight.  Stay at a distance, strafe to find the ship.  Repeat until finished.

Chenjesu: Moderate fight.  Chase down the ship and fire away.  If it turns and fires, dodge (this can be hard though when the crystal shatters to predict where you should not be).  If it chases you, just back up, dodge when you get shot at, and just fire away.  The DOGIs are a concern, but with your propulsion system you can blow them away easily, or put them in front of you and let the chenjesu blow them away.

VUX: Easy fight.  Be ready to run when he warps in.  Then turn, use your propulsion, blow him away.

Arilou: Impossible fight.  "Men have shot entire clips at them and they only hit air." - Morpheus in the Matrix.  Same feeling here in this battle.  I had to take the Arilou out of my rotation because it wiped out my entire Supox fleet.

Shofixti: Easy fight.  Stay back, outstrafe him, he goes down.  Your range is far beyond the Glory Device range, so no worries there.

Mmrnmhrm: Easy fight. Wait for him to come to you in X-form, strafe if he tries going at you that way.  Stay in front of him though if he changes to Y-form, you can chase him some and get lots of rounds into him.  If he's far away in Y-form, you have the speed to maneuver behind him.

Slylandro: Impossible fight.  Too much speed to outmaneuver.  Your best best is to keep the front of your ship in it's general direction.  The Slylandro's lightning blocks most of the shots you get (grazing ones are all you get with the faster ships anyway), so it's very hard to knock this one down.

Pkunk: Moderate to difficult fight.  This one has a lower skill level attached to it, because you CAN hit the Pkunk pretty
regularly with glancing shots and avoid it much easier than the Slylandro.  Basically, outthink and outstrafe and this guy
goes down.  Really good fight to test your skills.

Kohr-Ah: Easy fight.  Set up at an angle, strafe to miss his blades and come back and shoot him.  Doing this at an angle is best to avoid having blades behind you to run into.  This is probably the big test to prove you have the propulsion system
down - you should be able to win this one without getting hit once.

Druuge: Moderate to difficult fight.  I find it best to stay back and have the Druuge take shots at you.  They are easily
dodged though if you are paying close enough attention.  Then if you get the chance to go in, do it, but be more concerned with not getting hit than hitting the Druuge.  Patience wins the fight here.

Supox: Difficult fight.  Basically this one is the ultimate skill fight for a Supox.  A definite ace dogfight to win on this
one.

Umgah: Easy fight. Avoid the zips, and then line up on the Umgah as he fires his anti-matter cone.  You have more range than he does so you'll be fine because the computer will shut it down.  Alternatively against a human player who might not shut the cone down, you can strafe around the ship (I wonder if it's possible to circle-strafe with a Supox like they do in games like Quake (it'd be perfect for this one)? ;D  Only catch is you don't get the handy mouse to do it with in SC2 though) and blow him away that way.

Spathi: Moderate to difficult fight.  Another good skill fight here where you get to use the propulsion system.  Set up your strafe runs, and use the propulsion system to back away from the BUTTs when fired.

Utwig: Easy fight.  Discharge the shields by shooting one shot at it - either they discharge the shields down or they go
down.  After the shields are down, let loose.  Hardest part is making sure you don't succumb to the speed the Utwig builds up so you get in range of it.

Syreen: Moderate fight.  Stay away so the siren song doesn't work well, strafe and blast away.  The speed is a bit of an
issue, but one of the easier fast ships to handle.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Moderate fight.  Basically put, outstrafe this guy and stay away from him to win.  A mistake could end you right up next to him for some tongue action.

Yehat: Moderate fight. Get it to follow you and set up between the two guns and shoot away.  It'll shield if you're far
enough away.  Basically to hurt the Yehat, juke it into firing and then back away as you shoot.  Repeat enough times it'll go down.

Thraddash: Easy fight.  Wait for him to come to you and shoot away.  This is a harder fight for the Supox than some other ships I've reviewed in this thread, but still quite easy.

Melnorme: Moderate fight.  Make him come to you - stay at long range though.  Strafe to make him miss then answer.  He goes down.

Androsynth: Difficult fight.  It's very easy for the comet form to beat you so you have to be really quick to avoid it.  It comets when you get a good shot on it in regular form too.  Bubbles are not a problem for you here, though.  Get your shots
in and be patient and it goes down.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 27, 2003, 05:20:47 am
Yeah you can get a better fight out of a human player - just because I write my things with the computer in mind doesn't mean I haven't played human players.  That's just the thing though, I'm pointing out that if you do it right, you can smoke an Androsynth with a Thraddash.  Even if a human player turns away as the comet, a smart Thraddash player isn't going to let the bubbles do anything unless like you wrote they're placed into that situation...but that makes it hard on the 'Synth player again.  Personally if a Synth player sits and fires bubbles off I won't have a problem sitting back and firing the pea shooter all day - in fact I've won battles that way.  About the only reliable way I see a Synth ship winning is suprising the Thraddash with the comet when they don't have enough energy to get away or time enough to turn.

Then again that's where skills comes into this as opposed to strategies like we talk about.

Quote
Smith: My Guardian strat was written for player vs. player, with most elements being able to be brought to P vs. C. This, obviously, isn't one of them. :P



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 29, 2003, 11:47:41 pm
Here's one for the home team.

Earthling Crusier

+: Moderately well crewed, nukes pack a punch, good turning, moderate energy regeneration, sleek design, and hey, its OUR ship! ;D
-: Small energy reserves, weak engines, PDL eats too much energy to be employed to the extent that I try to use it to. :P

General Tactics/Notes:

-Like a top: This ship can turn quite rapidly, and aiming/fleeing face is about 1/5 that of broadside to the Earthling. ALWAYS have your launchers or your engines toward your opponent, unless noted.

-1 or 2?: Save a missile when you've got enough energy to fire both. You may need it to intercept something like a Plasmoid, or a Red Fear bullet (or another nuke!)

-Zap!: The PDL takes 4 energy to fire, which sucks. Keep this in mind when trying to coup de grace or when preparing to defend.

-Split Fire: One nice thing about the PDL is, for 4 energy, it can hit up to 8 targets at once (most I've ever seen, anyway.) If used this way, it's only .5 energy per laser, for the same amount of damage. Not too bad in that light.

-Crossfire: If the screen is zoomed all the way out, and you and your opponent are at respectable distances away from one another, fire the opposite direction. The missile will attempt to turn toward them, but will wraparound and readjust to aim at their aft.  ;)

-Don't do both: Don't try to fire a missile and keep your PDL up at the same time. The PDL will cook the missile, and it only can take one point of damage, so there's 3/4ths of your gas tank gone.

-Heavy: This ship has a large mass for it's size, meaning you can get quite a head of steam on a gravity whip, or you can send other ships careening if you whap into em.

-*Camper*: This ship, like the Druuge, is a sniper vessel. If you have a big opponent, camp near the planet, and sting 'em with a PDL or two when they negotiate.

Specialized Tactics:

Avatar: Good luck. The tractor beam can be fun, as long as they pull from a distance. 3 Nukes will destroy a Zap-Sat, which will then give you a chance to start hitting the ship. However, most often nukes will get Zapped, so, if you dare, get close and get BEHIND. Take the Zap shot yourself, and blast the ZapSat. Maybe the NEXT Crusier will fare better.

Avenger: Dumbfire Nukes still work. Judge and blast. Usually, the Avenger will burn the missile if it's on a direct course, so a trick is to fill up to 100% fuel, fire both, but fire one ON course and the other slightly off. When the Avenger uncloaks to kill the first, the second gets a lock on and will (hopefully) hit. Remember, the Avenger can actually outrun you, so stay near the planet!

Blade: The Blade is, in compitent hands, anyway, too manuverable to be Nuked, and the seedgun can cut down most Nukes anyway. Hold down fire and hope a few hit. If it gets too close, PDL em. You'll at least take one or two crew before you die.

-Broodhome: Gravity is your friend when it comes to escaping DOGI's. Nuke away. Most people won't ak-ak to try to stop the Nukes, as the Broodhome has a good amount of crew. Well, 32/4 = 8 missiles. Make sure to use your top-like turning to avoid shards, too.

-Cruiser: Fire one Nuke at the start, let it get out of range, then turn your PDL on to zap the two that will be coming at you. Wait for 3/4s energy, about the time he's at about 50%. Fire right after he does, then PDL the incoming Nuke. Yours will more than likely hit due to his low energy. The only thing is now you are on even playing grounds when it comes to fuel, although 2 missiles eats away a good portion of Crusier crew. Go for the planet (the Crusier is heavy enough to almost avoid missiles at full whip speed) and regain energy. Remember, 75% before you do ANYTHING!

-Dreadnought: Get your two off. You might only have to go through about 4 Cruisers before you take it down. :P If you happen to be lucky enough to spawn next to the planet, GO!! RUN LIKE HELL! Fire first, forget aiming on them, then WHIP! Unless you do, you're fighter food.

-Drone: Crossfire is essential, as the Drone can't turn fast enough to cone one coming from behind. If it zips, get out of the way. Better yet, get HIT. That thing running into you at full bore will send you sailing, making you nigh impossible to hit with a Drone-Cone. After it's dead, don't slow down! This speed is a great advantage (well, usually) for the Crusier.

-Eluder: This is one of the few ships that is actually Nuke fodder. Just keep firing at it. Most will try to dance, but the ship is just too big to avoid a Nuke. Keep away and keep firing, it'll go down after 8.

-Fury: Unless you're nose-to-nose, fire Nukes only when you want to keep the Fury at bay. Use the PDL to zappify the birds when they strafe you. If they ressurect, you're history.

-Guardian: Get your two off and run like hell for the planet. If you can whip away, you might manage to get enough energy for one more Nuke before you get Blazered all over the cosmos.

-Intruder: If he's warping in, goodbye. Try to get a Nuke off before being cut in half. In contrast, if it's you that's warping in, fire your two and head for the planet. The Intruder is helpless when far away, and is (in my book) Nuke fodder from a distance.

-Jugger: Get to the planet, or become a quad-cannon chew toy. Use the Nuke's mediocre guidance system to your advantage. Purposely aim off target to make the Nuke take it's big wide arcs to get to the Jugger. They'll more than likely shield to avoid potential damage, but most times the missile will turn right behind the ship. Once they're out of gas, fire at will, but don't aim directly at the ship, as the quads can take a Nuke out with relative ease.

-Marauder: Let him send a few blades off, then fire one. He'll use his FRIED to defend himself more often than not, and when he does, fire the second one. Then head for the planet and hope you don't whip into some blades. Keep nuking, as most humans I've played get a little trigger happy when using the Marauder. You might last awhile...

-Mauler: Sniper war, but your bullets are seeking. ;D Get going around the planet, or, if you're warping in, SIT STILL. They'll get to rolling with recoil trying to outrun nukes. When (like most players do) are going full bore, fire before they wrap around. The missile will be on it's way, and start to arc towards them, but once they wrap, it will turn again to aim at the Mauler's rear. You only need 5.

-Nemesis: Get to the planet ASAP. If your opponent is an idiot that sends out droves of Marines, you'll only need two nukes to finish them off. If they're a bit smarter, keep firing and hoping. Don't get caught by marines, they eat you alive.

-Penetrator: Fire your two and head for the planet. (Man, I sound like a broken record.) Hope that the Penetrator doesn't get close enough to sing, or you're history. If it DOES get close enough to sing, either try to collect your crew, or if the situation is hopless, PDL the traitors. That way the Pene isn't filled up for the next fight.

-Podship: Another sniper fight, except their balls can take more than one hit and can do more than 4 points of damage. That, and their regeneration will replace the amount of crew your Nuke shaves off. Just keep shooting. Save one missile if a Plasmoid is getting close, and sacrifice it if it's about to hit. PDL will not help you here.

-Probe: Send your two and perform whatever rituals necessary before death. If it gives you that much time. Sometimes a PDL can get a lucky zap in, but don't count on it. (I seriously think the Probe was designed specifically to eat Crusiers).

-Scout: Try to Nuke it before it detonates itself all over you. Not much else for tactic here, EVERYONE blows up as Shofixti. If they don't, well, they can only take one Nuke anyway.

-Skiff: Their laser has a longer reach than your PDL, so that's out of the question. Fire Nukes when they get close, and hope that they don't manage to laser them down. They only need to take 2 to go down, so hope your aim is true.

-Stinger: Send missiles sparingly, that little hose-gun can take them down quite well. Try crossfiring, but don't expect anything spectacular. The good thing is, the Stinger can only suffer 2 missiles...

-Terminator: Go for a single point of damage with a PDL shot. You can't win. Just die. It's hopeless, unless the person flying the Terminator is either a newbie or has some sort of disease that doesn't let them hit keys on the keyboard. :P

-Torch: Two Nukes send them to wherever the rest of their Cultures have gone. Sit still, and Nuke away. Crossfire won't work with afterburners, so don't bother, just aim right for em.

-Trader: Screwer-Upper shot isn't too bad for a Crusier, but watch out for the purple and red fear shots, they'll mess you up bad. Try for crossfire shots, but, as mentioned before, don't expect anything spectacular.

-Transformer: If they stay X, you're history. Y form, however, you have a slight chance. Crossfire works very well here, especially if the player is one of those "fly-in-a-straight-line-and-hold-fire" people. Just aim in the opposite direction they're flying, and they'll meet your Nuke head on when they wrap around.

Pretty bleak outlook for us poor hunams.  :-/
Next on my list of tactics: Melnorme Trader.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on September 30, 2003, 01:00:07 am
CRUISER V. DREADNAUGHT:
Fighter food? What game are you playing? The Ur-Quan will never launch fighters against the Cruiser -- one PD burst will fry every fighter in sight.
And if they do... well, fry 'em!

A good cruiser captain can typically get off about 6 shots on the 'quan before being chased down and mauled by the plasma bolt cannon. This is a little over 1/2 of the 'quan's life. This number is subject to much variation, principally the starting range of the two ships.

Additional strategies:
- Fire both missiles at first, but rotate a notch between shots, so one plasma bolt can't take them both out.
- Pay attention to alignment. If you're cruising north and so is the Quan, steadily overtaking you, then make sure you're just a touch to the east or west, so the bolts will fly on past.
- since you spin well, it's often worth it to turn to get a good firing angle, just for a moment. No need to make a direct shot, just 90° away instead of 180° away.
-Know when you're going as fast as you can, so you can concentrate on aiming.
- be ready to PDL away any asteroids that would knock you toward the quan. Don't zap slow-moving asteroids that won't hit you, though -- they might hit the 'quan, giving you a bit of breathing room.
- If you're going to be forced into a close pass, try to trick them into wasting shots by presenting a broad side, then quickly turning to make it vanish (you have to be at some range or you won't have enough time even with the fast rotation).  This can confuse human opponents enough that you can get away with two, one, or perhaps even no hits, rather than the dreaded three of death.


PROBE:
Also, if the cruiser can get the two starting hits in on a probe, then you can just hold down the PDL and attrite to victory -- you only need 4 more hits, they need 18. If you miss the first two hits, well, that's pretty much the end of the line.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 30, 2003, 01:07:20 am
Yeah Death999 I was going to say that too reading that description.  In my system I've been using Earthling (you) vs. Ur-Quan is an easy to moderate as long as you can stay away from the Quan.  The computer never sends fighters, but human ones might (I do just to keep the Earthling from sending nukes at me, the Quan is a HUGE target, and if they PDL they aren't nuking me) though you have to remember.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 30, 2003, 07:46:41 pm
Note that I was talking about human players. Smart ones will send them 2 at a time, so you burn down your PDL (my opponent did, the bast) and then send the rest of the squadron. It sucks.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on September 30, 2003, 08:40:38 pm
Quote
Note that I was talking about human players. Smart ones will send them 2 at a time, so you burn down your PDL (my opponent did, the bast) and then send the rest of the squadron. It sucks.


Let me guess -- you left the PDL on while the rest of the squad was approaching, right?
You probably should have let the first few arrive, then zapped the entire squad at once.

Also, fighters are assigned to attack the left or right side of the ship. If you face sideways, then half of them will fly into your hull before firing. Do that and it's only half as painful to wait for them all to arrive. Also, you can try spinning around --the cruiser is long and spins quickly, so you might be able to swat some of them physically. I will need to try that out, though.

Lastly, if you are holding down the PDL while you launch a missile, it is not zapped. But if you turn the PDL on while a missile is 'in the air' exiting, it will be zapped.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 30, 2003, 10:41:50 pm
"Greetings Captain, how may we slaughter you today?"


Melnorme Trader

+: Good sized crew, excellent battery size, good battery regeneration, very useful secondary.
-: Average speed, moderate turning, BIG target, secondary eats around 45% battery.

General Tactics/Notes

-Fear me!: Those nice, aptly named Fear Orbs will scare any human player once they hit purple and red. Use this to your advantage, especially if they're in a slower ship. (Add a little insane cackle for added effect) This, obviously, doesn't do much to the computer, but it'll make a Pkunk, Arilou, or any other small ship run for it's life when playing the Comp.

-Two Modes: You've got choices when it comes to firing. Do you charge your Orb up to a massive 16 damage, the highest damaging single shot in the game next to Sa-Matra fireballs? Or, do you machinegun the hell out of your opponent with a rapid fire dish of 2ers? It all depends on who you're fighting. For ease of explanation, Full charge I'll just call Red, and machinegunning is Greengun.

-Conserve energy: The Trader doesn't recharge while holding a shot. Save enough energy before charging (if you are indeed charging) to be able to tag your opponent with a Confusion Ray aka Screwer-Upper in my previous posts.

-Range Finder: The Screwer-Upper has the exact same speed and range as the Orbs do. If  you've got the energy, you can get an exact guess of how far (and if you're on target) your current Orb will go by firing off a Screwer-Upper. If you know you're on target, give 'em a double-whammy: Screw 'em and plug 'em.

-Sniper: The Trader is a sniper ship, for all intents and purposes. It doesn't have the range of the Cruiser or the Mauler, but it can outrange nearly every other ship. Use this to your advantage.

-Shield: The Purple and Red Orbs make great shields against projectiles; they'll STOP a Fusion Bolt or a Druuge Shell. However, don't touch asteroids, they'll blow your shot and you'll have to start all over. Use this to shred fighters, marines, and DOGIs. (DOGI's will blow the shot, though, the others don't.)

-Timing: It takes about 4 seconds per color level to charge. Keep this in mind when you're in a tight spot.

-Crushify your Enemies!: A stupid K'tang saying, but I'll use it to describe this.  When you've got an Orb charged (Red is when I usually do it) and you've got spare energy, if you don't want to try to snipe your opponent with it, rush them! When the Orb touches, it dispels, dealing all it's massive damage, and another one charges up instantly as long as you've got the energy. This means, all you have to do is, with a full tank, charge up and poke your opponent. The first one blows up, a second one appears instantly afterwards to begin charging, but is still on the hull of your opponent! This one also destructs, dealing 2, and repeat until you're out of juice or they're dead.

Specialized Tactics
-Avatar: A Red will destroy a ZapSat, but usually one doesn't have enough time to charge up. If you're lucky enough to get a Red, aim for a wing. It'll smack a ZapSat and keep going, possibly polishing off another one if they're lined up right. If you're near the planet, try to stay there, as you can usually orbit to partially negate the Tractor Beam. Get shots off wisely, and make sure to Screw-Up the Avatar. Getting rid of the Tractor, even if only for 15 seconds, is the difference between victory and having your ashes spread on the solar winds.

-Avenger: You're quick enough to drift facing the Avenger and be out of range. Watch out for asteroids, and Greengun into space until you've hit a few times, then Red them into oblivion.

-Blade: Unless you're really accurate, Reds are not advised, as the Blade can dance around you with relative ease. Use the Screwer-Upper to negate their dancing power and Greengun the Greenies.

-Broodhome: DOGI's can be a pain, sucking out a potential Screwer-Upper. 2 Greens or a Blue will toast a DOGI, but concentrate on the Broodhome. 4 Reds will kill it. Don't try the Crushify tactic, as the Ak-Ak will surely get you. Box the Brood between the planet and yourself, and Screwer-Upper them while they're in the well. The engines are too weak while they're spinning, and they'll probably crash at least once, making your life a bit easier.

-Crusier: Get at least a Blue to defend from Nukes. One Red and a Green to finish it. Don't bother with the Screwer-Upper, as they naturally spin like a top anyway. If you do decide to Screw them up, crushify afterwards, preferably with a Purple or Red to make it quick.

-Dreadnought: Screwer-Upper is essential in this fight, as you don't turn fast enough to shield from fighters, and you present a great big target for Fusion Bolts. Get them confused, or run their fighters into asteroids, charge up, flank and crushify. If you're feeling particularly mean, Greengun them.

-Drone: Mwah. Purple and Red shots pass through the cone if you're attacking head on. If they zip, make it right into your charging shot. If they manage to get to facing you, Screw em up. Otherwise, flank and fire.

-Eluder: The Eluder might have a large crew compliment, but your Red shots and it's relative size (about as big as you) will make it easy prey. Screw it up if you're having a problem with BUTTs, but otherwise, smash it with a Red, then follow up with a Purple or another Red.

-Fury: Ugh. A tactic that seems to work is to come as close as you can to a complete stop, camp and Greengun the hell out of them when you get the chance, or charge and point-blank Purple them. Otherwise, you'll lose lots of crew as they mercilessly walk circles around you and pick you apart.

-Guardian: Get to the gravity well, ASAP. The Blazer mode can circle and flank you with relative ease, but if they're dumb enough to Blaze you head on, let 'em have it. A real fun trick is to Screw them when they're in Blazer mode. It's easy to hit a Blazer stuck going in circles. ;D If they are a bubbler, the Orb won't make a very good shield vs. them, so just steer clear and use your superior range to pick the spittlebug style apart.

-Intruder: If he's warping in, KEEP MOVING. If you really want to mess up a VUX (and this works for any ship), be near the planet when you know a VUX is next. Anyway, once you're out of laser range, Limpets die against even a Green. Get Red, and get accurate. One won't do the trick, so Greengun them afterwards. If you're both warping in (the start of the fight), pray that they warp in past you, or facing away slightly so you can get away.

-Jugger: Most people cannot shield fast enough to stop the fast shots of the Trader. Don't Greengun them, they WILL shield and soak it up. Get Reds or Purps and smash them. Don't get caught by the quad-cannons! Remember, you are faster than the Jugger, and you have about 2.5X range. Use it.

-Marauder: Screwer-Upper is essential here. Do this to negate the FRIED, then Crushify. If you prefer sniping, 3 Reds will do the trick. Greengunning isn't recommended here, but if you're feeling courageous, stay away from the blades. Note that the FRIED does NOT stop a Red shot. ;D At least, not that I've seen.

-Mauler: Trade wars! Too bad you've got it easy. Dance around in front of their gun to get them recoiling, getting a Red charged up all the while. Screw them, or, if you're really accurate, just paste 'em. Remember, a Red will soak up a Shell, but be careful, as those shells DO hurt if they connect.

-Nemesis: Get to the planet and get Red ASAP to smush the Marines that are undoubtedly coming. Once they stop sending Marines, simply blast them. Their Howitzer can't get through a Red or Purple, so use this to your advantage.

-Penetrator: Most will try to get close to suck you dry of crew. At base, the Penetrator only has 12 crew. Gee, a Red kills 16...one is all it takes, and most people will try to turn away when you bring to bear, presenting a nice, wide side of a ship to annihilate. ;) If you're really worried about getting sapped of crew, Screw em up.

-Podship: Regeneration is annoying, but not a significant threat. Red will stop all Plasmoids, but a point-blank Plasmoid will also destroy the Red. Bust 'em with the Screwer-Upper so they can't regenerate and then either Greengun them or Red-Blue them. If you've had a bad day and need to vent some steam, Crushifying is also valid, and quite fun to boot.  :)

-Probe: Ugh. As described on another post, its like fighting Emperor Palpatine on speed. Greengunning, I've found, is an effective tactic, as the contorting body of the Probe is too chaotic to accurately punch with a Red. DON'T ever let them get behind you. To really make your life easy, however, try to connect with a Screwer-Upper.  They're stuck making really tight circles, and just about anywhere within that circle = a hit. This is the time to Red them.

-Scout: Run, and Greengun. All they can take is two shots, or a lucky Blue. You cannot withstand a Glory Blast, so keep your distance, or, get a lucky Screwer-Upper shot in so they can't explode.

-Skiff: If you can manage a Screwer-Upper, more power to you. Greengun them into oblivion, as they usually teleport when it's too late. Don't let the Skiff flank you, or even get NEAR you, or it's history.

-Stinger: 1 Red will destroy a Stinger. Keep it at bay with light Greengunning, then go for the kill. You can only withstand two licks, so be careful. Screwer-Uppering here can actually be dangerous, as the spread gun seems to hit more often while they're spinning.

-Terminator: No one can shield fast enough to block a charged shot. If the person is one of those hold-special-down types, Screwer-Upper them, then laugh as you stay out of range and Red-Blue them to death. Note that the computer can't even shield vs. any kind of Orb, making life easy.

-Torch: Sit. Stay. Let it come to you, and Greengun them. Don't even bother with a Screwer-Upper, they die too fast, and it's a waste of energy. :P

-Trader: Ah, Melnorme Trade Fleet Combat Practice. Get and KEEP a charged shot. This will stop all Greengunning that comes your way, but beware the Screwer-Upper, as it passes through the Orb. Screw them up first, then Red-Purple. If you can manage to get to the planet, aim for it and drift in reverse (only moderately difficult). When they chase you, Screwer-Upper them when they get into the well's effects, and Greengun at will. They'll either go down from your fire, or will crash and burn.

-Transformer: Whap a X-Form with a Screwer-Upper and life is easy. Just Red-Blue them. Y form is a bit different. If you can manage to hit with a Screwer-Upper, those annoying little missiles keep coming at you regardless. Get close (if possible) and crushify. If you can't get close, Greengun at them as they strafe past you.

"We thank you captain, for your gracious gift of RU from the smoldering wreckage of your ship."
And who says the Melnorme don't give anything away? Flaming death is one thing they'll gladly hand out!


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on September 30, 2003, 11:57:46 pm
Alright. I'm bored at work:

Syreen Penetrator
+: Relatively fast, turns well, sucks crew; good gun range
-: Puny gun (but not that bad); puny firing rate; opponent can reclaim crew

General tactics:
- This always come back to crew sucking. You can either a) suck crew and immediately pick them up, b) suck crew and leave them until you kill your opponent, or c) suck crew next to a planet leaving them for no one.
- Being a good sharp shooter is essential for ending a matchup.
- A Penetrator with full crew is incredibly powerful. A Penetrator with few crew is incredibly weak. This is because the ship will typically lose some crew up front, but redeem them (and more) at the end.

Specialized tactics:
Avatar: Next to impossible. If I can get to the planet, I try to suck crew and let the gravity help me escape the tractor beam; unfortunately, he has a lot of crew. Even after getting out all of his crew, taking that last shot is really hard with the zap sats and all.
Avenger: Easy. Get close to him, but not too close and then suck all his crew. Turn and finish him off, then reclaim crew.
Blade: Fairly easy. Suck and claim the crew. Finish him off.
Broodhome: Moderate. DOGIs are annoying. Suck and claim the crew. Then finish him off.
Cruiser: Easy enough. Suck the crew, finish him off, claim the crew.
Dreadnaught: Annoying. You can outrun the fighters, but doing that and getting close enough to him to suck crew is a pain. Either fire at him from a distance with your gun, or get him near the planet and suck from there.
Drone: Easy. Suck, kill, claim.
Eluder: Easy. Suck, claim, kill.
Fury: This has disturbing theological implications, but its a fun one. This is the only time I pray my opponent's Fury will be resurrected because you almost always come out better on the deal. Suck, claim, kill. (or Suck, kill, claim, either way)
Guardian: Empty victory. The bubbles eat the crew. Watch out for Blazer form, but a good pilot can outmanuever it.
Intruder: "Not all that glitters is gold" and not all that's green is crew. Stay back and kill him with your gun.
Jugger: Getting close to this guy is a pain, I normally planet suck him. Getting that last shot can be hard depending on the skill (and luck) of the pilot.
Marauder: Suck, claim, kill works best for me. Just watch out for the blades. Like the sucked crew, they move towards you.
Mauler: The Penetrator is agile enough to avoid Mauler shots typically. If he gets some speed then suck the crew while he flies by. Otherwise, make him burn his own crew.
Nemesis: Too bad you can't suck the marines out of their suits.... You can suck the Nemesis' crew, but I find it easier to just shoot him at long range.
Penetrator: I typically stay out of range and shoot when the other ship gets near, though it is kinda fun to run in close and have both sucking out the other's crew.
Podship: You're faster than its fire, but barely. When outrunning a plasma blast, don't turn directions. You're acceleration is just poor enough to let it catch up with you. Get close and suck, kill, claim.
Probe: This ship would be simple if you could actually suck its crew! As it is, it's one of the two hardest ships for the Penetrator (along with the Avatar). At least your shots take off two and not one. Good luck. You need to be a sharp-shooter.
Scout: Suck the crew from the farthest distance possible. If that doesn't seem to work for you, then just fire at him.
Skiff: Suck, kill, claim. Not easy though. Getting a shot on the Skiff is pretty difficult at times.
Stinger: Free crew. Watch out for the tongue. Easy.
Terminator: Like the Jugger, though I fare a little better. Suck the crew (near the planet or not), claim, then try to kill. I find flying head on and shooting works well.
Torch: Like the Guardian, an empty victory often enough. The crew will often fly into the Torch's fire trail. Still an easy enough kill.
Trader: Don't get hit by the confusion ray. The trader has a lot of crew, and sucking works best. Suck, claim, kill.
Transformer: Either form is pretty easy. X: Suck, kill, claim. Y: Suck, claim, kill.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on October 01, 2003, 05:41:47 am
Ilwrath Strategy Guide
=======================
More strategy list fun.  Thought I'd do a writeup on the Ilwrath.  This fits with the computer in awesome, but probably will work on human targets as well to some degree.  And this also assumes starting out with a Ilwrath that has full crew, in terms of win possibility.

The key tactic here is getting on top of the other ships so they can't react fast enough.  Your cloak will help on that one, but more with a human player than a computer.  The computer does react differently to the cloak so it applies well with both.  One useful thing to remember is that when you materialize from the cloak you'll always be pointing in the direction of the ship.  Very useful to know - you can set up a maneuver I will call the slingshot through the rest of the document too - get them to chase you and when they move towards you, decloak and fire and keep going straight.  You should almost always cloak anyway.  This is a hard ship to master, and most matches end up as endurance contests anyway.

Ur-Quan: Moderate fight.  It tries to launch it's fighters, but they promptly return, so this makes it a match against the ship itself.  You should be able to charge the ship and easily get around to it.  When they get a possible shot or the fighters start coming out, cloak and move away.

Orz: Moderate fight.  Same thing happens as the Ur-Quan.  The marines won't even launch - for the computer OR the player.  Quite easy to get on top of too.  Of course, at close range this ship WILL launch marines so get your shot in and cloak fast.

Chmmr: Impossible fight.  Just get your shots in and move on to the next ship.

Mycon: Moderate fight. Cloak and chase it down.  You'll have to alternate screens to do this and it'll take a while.  Keep away from the direct line of fire of the Mycon and keep in mind those plasmoids WILL seek you once you decloak - the ones fired and active will likely have enough range to come back at you.

Earthling: Moderate fight.  Same pretty much as the Mycon, you'll have to chase it down by alternating screens.

Ilwrath: Difficult fight.  Basically an endurance fight - whoever has more crew will win.

Chenjesu: Moderate to difficult fight.  Chase down the ship.  The DOGIs will be of no concern, because of the cloak.  If you get close, stay and fire away.  An endurance fight, but if you come in right after a DOGI gets launched they won't have the energy to take you out - otherwise, you'll make the Chenjesu severely regret ever meeting you (but he'll live to regret you).

VUX: Moderate fight.  Cloak and stay away from the limpets if fired, then come in.  Make sure your fire is concentrated on the front of the ship or you're getting limpeted.

Arilou: Easy to moderate fight.  Cloak, Fire, Cloak, Fire.  Repeat until the Arilou goes down - sometimes you can have the nose of your ship right on the Arilou too.

Shofixti: Impossible fight.  You're getting a glory device - hope you have enough crew to survive it.

Mmrnmhrm: Moderate fight.  Cloak and wait until the X-form comes to you and then blast away.  This is an endurance fight, after that.

Slylandro: Difficult to Impossible fight.  Too fast to catch.  If you get close and let it attack you can try to slingshot against it and hurt it some, but even cloaked that lightning has a way of hitting you.

Pkunk: Difficult to impossible fight.  Read the Slylandro section.

Kohr-Ah: Difficult to impossible fight.  Cloak and get them to use their energy up trying to hit you then come in and fire away until they go down.

Druuge: Impossible fight.  The cloak is useful to get them to try and fire, but the truth is you're just too big of a target and those shots will hit you.

Supox: Moderate to difficult fight.  Slingshot, move, whatever it takes.  Basically a dogfight where you need to get on it's side.

Umgah: Moderate fight.  An endurance match, since you aren't getting around that anti-matter cone.

Spathi: Difficult fight.  Uncloak and use the planet to gravwhip at the Spathi.

Utwig: Impossible fight.  You're getting chewed up by the cannon.  Don't fire on it though, or you'll fill its batteries up.

Syreen: Moderate fight.  Cloak come in...the song will happen and be ready to fire on the ship (cloaked) if it comes after your crew.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Easy to moderate fight.  The slingshot maneuver is perfect here.

Yehat: Moderate fight. Another endurance match.

Thraddash: Easy fight.  Wait for him to come to you and shoot away.  No need to even cloak.

Melnorme: Moderate fight.  If you get caught by the confusion ray, don't bother to fire unless you're really close and know it's about to wear off - you stay mostly stationary when that happens (and a VERY easy target I might add).  Basically though, if you can stay away from getting hit, just charge it when it comes your direction and fire as it passes - it steers so like a box that it won't be able to avoid you without getting hit some.

Androsynth: Moderate fight.  THis ship tends to bubble with you cloaked.  Good reason, if he comets you when you're cloaked, you fire and your nose is right there ready to hurt him.  Maneuver to snipe at this guy when he's not cometing you and he'll go down.

P.S. Necro, has the game changed that much between SC2 and UQM?   I don't notice half the things happening between your observations and mine about the Melnorme.  

One in particular is the computer vs. human thing.  If anything the computer has it over the human on the kind of reflexes and ship positioning and so forth - as an example, in my play-testing, Melnorme (you) versus Arilou, you aren't hitting that ship for anything because it'll teleport away (basically same problem as I had with the Supox).  What I ended up having to do was charge to red, let the Arilou pick on me a little as I maneuvered so the red ball would touch it.   Then as another example,  I notice in SC2 that the Utwig WILL block any and all things you send it's way, INCLUDING the confusion ray (blocking that don't work too well, but it does try it).


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on October 01, 2003, 05:49:27 am
Melnorme vs. Jugger tactics should definitely include the use of the screwer-upper...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 01, 2003, 10:04:33 pm
For the Trader vs. Jugger/Terminator battles, I was fighting the computer on Awesome difficulty. I would outrun both, get them to start chasing me, turn and slow slightly, just enough to stay even with them, drift, and charge a shot. When I fired, neither ship shielded, nor even attempted. Human players just freak out and constantly shield as Yehat and tap-on as Utwig. As for the Arilou, I usually get chewed up so I try for the planet ASAP, greengunning to keep them at bay. I wound up, after repeated testing, Holding a red and trying to get them to smash into it, or, if I was feeling good, trying a point-blank.

ADD: I only mentioned the Screwer-Upper when I thought it needed emphasis. It's in my General Tactics, so I just assume that people use it whenever, but would concentrate on trying to use it when mentioned in a specialized tactic.

ADD: Smith, are you playing SC2 or UQM? I'm on UQM.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 01, 2003, 10:10:39 pm
Enough modifying that last post...

Has anyone actually used these tactics to their advantage? Even if no one has, I'm gonna keep putting ship tacs here just because. :P


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on October 01, 2003, 11:03:35 pm
Like you need those tactics to beat the computer's AI...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 01, 2003, 11:22:32 pm
Allright, time for the most overrated ship in the game.


Chmmr Avatar

+:Massive crew, massive battery, superb battery regeneration, defensive sattelites, powerful laser, tractor beam.
-:Becomes weak when ZapSats are gone, laser and tractor beam drain battery very quickly.

General tactics/notes:

Get over here!: Suck most opponents toward you for a quick fight. If the ZapSats don't get them, your Terrawatt laser will.

Ship masses: I'll put in the relative mass of each ship, Light, Middle, or Heavy. This significantly affects your Tractor's power over the craft. Graphic size does NOT equal weight. Note the Umgah. Heavy ships are harder to pull initially but have problems slowing down, whereas lighter ships can get going to speeds where hulls should be burning off but can recover with ease.

Ping-Pong: Get between the planet and your opponent, then Tractor them in, and (heavy ships especially) they'll richochet off the planet, scoring some damage.

Alternate Tractoring Methods: Slingshot for short. Get into a position where you are somewhat at an angle with your opponent, 45 or thereabouts is best. Tractor your opponent when they're about to wraparound. This will pull them (usually slowing them down is all) and when they wrap, keep pulling for but a moment longer. It will give them what is best described as a pseudo grav-whip. Ships with weak engines, ala Broodhome, are powerless to resist this, and once they're sailing, all you have to do is line up and fire. The other great thing about Slingshotting is it will totally hose most human player's aim, making sniper ships difficult.

Between a Rock and a Hard Place: Again for heavy ships with weak engines. Tractor them when they're in the real gravity well to play hell with their engines. Some ships can be brought to a standstill right in the well, which is amusing. One way of doing this is simply being opposite them across the planet, and magnifying the whip, causing most ships to sail away out of control for a moment, or, the cruel method is to be behind the ship when it attempts a whip. Tractor right as it gets to the well. Results can vary from them banging into the planet to them getting launched in a straight line inbetween this planet and the Avatar (only once, I was fighting a Drone and caught it when it was about to whip. I think it was a bug, but it just SAILED [no zipping]).

Mobile Tractor vs. Standing Tractor: Sitting still, you'll always pull the opponent right at you, but while moving, it usually pulls the ship to a spot behind you (the last place where it was tractored, updated really, REALLY fast.) Moving makes it easier to Slingshot, but harder for a direct pull.

Playing with the Lightweights: Most of these ships, while slightly resistant to your Tractor, cannot take severe punshiment. Give them severe punishment by Ping-Ponging them a few.

Specialized Tactics:

-Avatar: Heavyweight. A suckfest, literally! Most often what will happen is you will wind up sailing inches past each other, your ZapSats furiously picking at one another. If you happen to be on a collision course, try to get aimed right so you can cook the other Avatar before it cooks you.

-Avenger: Mediumweight. Don't be too quick to Tractor when they're invisble, you may get a nasty suprise. Calculate a good idea of where they are, drift with them, and Laser them to atoms.

-Blade: Lightweight. Playing Ping-Pong can be difficult with their special ability, but if you can just pull them in close enough as-is, you'll manage to cook most of them. Against people that know how to use this ship, it can wind up being a nightmare, as their engines outpower (or equal) your Tractor's pull.

-Broodhome: Heavyweight. Mwah. Ping-Pong to soften them up. Don't worry too much about DOGI's; even if you've lost ZapSats and they manage to sap you, you regenerate it so fast that it won't matter. The DOGI's are actually a bit beneficial for this ship, as they can give it a speed boost. If you're feeling mean, Slingshot it but beware those Crystals, they'll wreck your ZapSats and punch you a square one too. Shards will be Zapped, but the big crystal won't. Nothing like killing one's genetic ancestors, eh?

-Crusier: Heavyweight. Mwah. An amusing trick is to Tractor it into it's own Nukes. Simply sit still, get it to face you, and right as it fires, pull. It can only suffer 4 of it's own missiles. If it manages to make it to you, finish it with Terrawatt power, or give the ZapSats a chew toy if you're feeling generous. ;D

-Dreadnought: Heavyweight. If your opponent is stupid enough to send fighters, so be it. The Computer won't, so play Ping-Pong with them a few times, or Tractor when they're in the gravity well to ruin their day. Once they're softened up, Slingshot and kill.

-Drone: Heavyweight. This scared the crap out of me when I first pulled it and got a faceful of antimatter cone. Most people are smart enough not to zip, so if you can Ping-Pong them against the planet three times (guess the speed is relative, twice could potentially do it), go for it. If not, close, turn around, "flee", drift with them, get into range and cook.

-Eluder: Middleweight. The punt gun and BUTTs are no threat. I usually get to a near stop, pull them in and have my way with them.

-Fury: Lightweight. Man, this thing can get CRUISING if you Slingshot it for an extended period of time. Sit still, pull it in, and let the ZapSats do what they do best. If it ressurects, so what? Do it again. If you're feeling particularly nasty, you can Ping-Pong them if you catch them near the planet.

-Guardian: Middleweight. A bit dangerous to Tractor, as it can go Blazer and rain on your parade. Bubbles can cause a moderate problem, as they take three hits to destroy, so a cloud can have potential ones sneaking in. Ping-Pong it, and if it goes Blazer, get your aim straight, or you'll have a pissed off fireball lodged in your wing crevace.

-Intruder: Heavyweight. Another ship not to tractor in, as it's Laser will chew up your ZapSats at alarming speed. Ping-Ponging is very recommended here, as the VUX engines are quite weak. Unless you've lost ZapSats, don't worry about Limpets, they get cooked. If you're feeling like a hotshot, Slingshot the Intruder and Laser it on the flyby.

-Jugger: Middleweight. Ugh. Don't EVER fire on the Jugger, because all you are is a 5-course meal for it's batteries, just waiting to be devoured. Ping-Ponging is the only strategy I can recommend here, and the engines of the Jugger seem to be quite prone to this. Just keep whapping them against the planet, and run if you get out of alignment.

-Marauder: Heavyweight. Beware FRIEDs, they destroy ZapSats with a touch. Get them to unload with Shurikens, then pull them in and give them a severe hosing. If you've lost some Sats prior, Ping-Ponging is highly advisable. Slingshot and cook.

-Mauler: Middleweight. Shells will penetrate your ZapSats, so make sure to stay off-line with the Mauler. Ping-Pong it to suffer it's already miserable crew(energy :P). Stop-Tractoring isn't too advised, as the Mauler can simply line up with you, and it's firing kickback negates tractor pull, all the while you're being pelted with Shells. Try to Slingshot it and catch it on the flyby.

-Nemesis: Middleweight. Marines can survive your ZapSats, but not your main Laser. Cook them whenever you get the chance, and once the Nemesis is low on crew, Ping-Pong it. A grav-whip on your part will keep the Marines at bay for awhile.

-Penetrator: Middleweight. The Avatar's weakness. If the Penetrator get's close and sucks crew, they get zapped. (This is in my case, if your version doesn't cook spaced crew, you're lucky.) Ping-Pong the Penetrator a couple times, it only starts with 12 crew. Slingshotting isn't advised here as the Penetrator has decent engines to counteract this.

-Podship: Heavyweight. Cook those Plasmoids, as your ZapSats cannot do it for you. Tractor in, Laser. Don't Slingshot, because that's what a Podship wants. Ping-Ponging isn't effective against a ship that regenerates crew, either.

-Probe: Probably a lightweight. Immune to your Tractor beam, you'll just have to close and Laser it to death, or let the ZapSats do the work. Those lightning bolts can outreach your ZapSats, so if you're not careful, you'll find yourself without automated defenses after too long a time. If the ship has been in combat with the VUX and caught limpets, it can be tractored, but the odds of this are so low that I won't even bother.

-Scout: Lightweight. Tractoring a Scout in is akin to playing catch with a live atom bomb: Don't do it. Ping-Pong twice against the planet.

-Skiff: Probably Lightweight. Immune to your Tractor, so just Laser it when it gets too close. If it's acquired Limpets...well...no one sucks enough as Arilou to get Limpeted. Nevermind. :P

-Stinger: Lightweight. Mwah. Pull it in and vaporize it. No tactic, just kill.

-Terminator: Middleweight. Give it a yank when it's near the planet to screw it all up, or Ping-Pong if you get the chance, shields don't defend against that. Those Dual Cannons will eat your ZapSats for an appetizer and then come for the main course. Don't let this be the case. Slingshot and catch them after they've tried (and possibly connected a bit) firing on you. No energy = no shield = Serpentis Fried Yehat. :P

-Torch: Lightweight. Sit still, pull it in, and vaporize it. DON'T ever chase an Afterburnering Torch, you will lose ZapSats/crew at a horrendous rate. Watching a Torch Afterburn while being pulled the same way by your Tractor is an awesome lesson in Physics. Until they smash into the planet. :P

-Trader: Heavyweight. The Screwer-Upper will penetrate the ZapSats, leaving you a spinning target. If you can, Ping-Pong them a few times, and watch out for Red Orbs. As I mentioned in the Trader Tactics, they WILL burn up a ZapSat and keep going for more. Once the Trader is low on energy, Tractor it in and cook it.

-Transformer: X-form is Middleweight, Y-form is Lightweight. The X-form will do a considerable amount of damage to you before it falls with those Twin Lasers, so be careful when you pull. A Y-Form essentially Slingshots itself, so if you can get to facing perpendicular (90 degrees from it's nose), Tractor it to play hell with it's turning ability. When it gets close, cook this half of your grandparents with glee.

Well, 'nuff said.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 01, 2003, 11:26:44 pm
Jiffa, do you not read prior posts? These tactics that I post are primarily for Player vs. Player. Of course you don't need this to kill the Computer.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on October 02, 2003, 01:44:17 am
Quote
-Dreadnought: Heavyweight. If your opponent is stupid enough to send fighters, so be it. The Computer won't, so play Ping-Pong with them a few times, or Tractor when they're in the gravity well to ruin their day. Once they're softened up, Slingshot and kill.

As much as these guides aren't about beating the computer, the best way to kill the computer Dreadnought is to fly straight away from it. It will eventually start to turn around so it can meet you going the other way. At the point turn around, tractor and fire. He won't be able to turn back around quickly enough and you can kill him with no loss of crew or zapsats.

Quote
-Penetrator: Middleweight. The Avatar's weakness. If the Penetrator get's close and sucks crew, they get zapped. (This is in my case, if your version doesn't cook spaced crew, you're lucky.) Ping-Pong the Penetrator a couple times, it only starts with 12 crew. Slingshotting isn't advised here as the Penetrator has decent engines to counteract this.

Wait a second! When I play the Penetrator vs. the Avatar, its crew doesn't get zapped! Are you sure that's what happens?


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sage on October 02, 2003, 03:30:56 am
Ur-Quan Dreadnaught:

Avatar: Moderate battle. Keep your distance and take potshots. This way you stand a good chance of getting rid of the zapsats. If the Avatar has no more zapsats, launch launch launch fighters! Stay away from a gravity well as you're too slow to compensate for the Avatar's tractor beam and will likely end up crashing into the planet. If it closes or manages to drag you in, blast and hope you live.
Avenger: Easy battle. Stay away from him at all costs. As stated before, fighters won't home in him while cloaked. Take potshots and get his location, keeping just enough distance to stay out of the hellfire. A useful tactic for locating an Avenger is to get him to follow you in a gravity whip, then turn around and blast in the direction you came from. If he decloaks, sacrifice a few fighters to keep him that way, and start blasting.
Blade: Easy to moderate battle. The Blade's gun will chew up fighters like candy, and its manuvuering makes tagging it with your blaster tricky at best. Send some fighters as a distraction, close in, drop a few more fighters, and fire away.
Broodhome: Difficult battle. Don't send fighters if you are being hounded (haha) by the DOGIs, as they'll eat your fighters without mercy. Do your best to destroy DOGIs as they come to you, otherwise you won't have any energy left to intercept incoming crystals. If you have a full compliment of ack-acks on you, try to position them between you and the Broodhome, and hope that he shoots them instead. They have a nasty habit of avoiding the nose of your ship, and with the Dreadnaught's slow turning, this is a major problem. Do your best to close in and fire.
Cruiser: Easy to moderate battle. Take advantage of the missile's wide arcs and evade them. Don't send any fighters unless you're fighting someone completely inept. Close in and annihilate.
Dreadnaught: Moderate battle. If your opponent sends droves of fighters, get him to chase you and send droves of your own. When being chased your fighters have less distance to travel and will often meet with him sooner. If he manages to close, just start blasting and pray.
Drone: Easy battle. The Dreadnaught's blaster is one of the few ships whose weapon can survive the antimatter cone. Use this to your advantage. Keep your distance and take potshots. Fighters will get chewed on by the antimatter cone. If it zips near you, send a few fighters out. This should force it to turn away from you long enough to a) send fighters to its exposed rear or b) blast away.
Eluder: Moderate to difficult battle. Fighters force this ship to keep distance, which can be used to an advantage. Sadly it seems that BUTTs have just as much range as fusion bolts, so that distance might not be too helpful. Droves of fighters make life difficult with enough potshots.
Fury: Moderate battle, up to impossible if it reincarnates a lot. Ugh. This ship is good at taking advantage of the Dreadnaught's slow turning. Fighters do a good job of keeping it at bay shortly, but ultimately it's just a matter of getting in two lucky shots.
Guardian: Moderate battle. Bubbles will make fighters all but useless, but if you send some before it gets too many bubbles out, this will coax the Guardian into comet mode. Whether this is a good thing is debatable. Fighters can be helpful against this ship in comet form, but obviously thier usefulness will last only as long as they don't contact one another. If it wedges itself on your nose, fire away and pray. If it wedges itself in your wing, launch as many fighters as you can and pray, again.
Intruder: Easy battle. If its warping in, get as much distance as you can. Keep your distance and send as many fighters as you can. Limpets are dangerous. Keep away from them, you're already slow enough as is.
Jugger: Moderate to difficult battle. Sending large droves of fighters forces the ship to stay shielded, and if there's a significant gap between shots it'll lose energy this way. Alternatively, trick it into shielding by shooting near but not at the ship. Once it runs out of energy, flank it and blast away.
Marauder: Moderate to difficult battle. Close in and drop a few fighters in his lap. While it's busy cutting/burning those, open fire. Wash, rinse, repeat. If you're unable to stay close to him and are feeling suicidal, gravity whip and take potshots. Don't send fighters from a distance unless he's out of energy, otherwise they're toast.
Mauler: Easy to moderate battle. Do not let yourself get lined up with him. Flank at a distance and send a few fighters. This'll cause him to start blasting them and wasting away fuel, and hopefully take some more fuel (crew) down with it. As it sails away, intercept him and blast. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Nemesis: Easy to moderate battle. Blast marines as they come in, and stay away from the gravity well while they're out. You're too slow to try to evade without a lucky gravity whip. Launch fighters, close in, and begin blasting at random.
Penetrator: Easy battle. Keep your distance and send fighters, taking potshots when you're close enough.
Podship: Easy to moderate battle. Fighters get eaten by plasmoids without mercy. You're too slow to evade without a gravity whip, but doing that can be costly. Instead, attempt to drift away from the Podship until you wrap back around, keeping your gun trained on any plasmoids that come your way. Once you get close enough to him, drop a few fighters in his lap and blast. Be persistant against this ship, as regeneration can drag battles out for far too long.
Probe: Difficult battle. Your turning is too slow for shooting this ship. Fighters force some distance between you and it, but the lightning will toast them eventually. Do not let this ship flank you. Once it runs out of energy and starts to retreat for more fuel, launch and blast. Large droves of fighters will also make life difficult for the Probe. Basically this comes down to getting lucky shots.
Scout: Easy battle. Send some fighters, keep your distance, and pray it doesn't get close enough to detonate. If you're at full or even half crew you can still take a full blast from the Glory Device and keep on going, though.
Skiff: Difficult to impossible battle. This one also takes advantage of your slow turning. Fighters will prompt this ship to teleport away, but on the flip side it forces the Skiff to keep distance. Use this to your advantage and take potshots. Every time it closes in or teleports close, send two more fighters. Wash, rinse, repeat. A simpler tactic for those without patience would be to continuosly send fighters out. Eventually the skiff will teleport in the middle of a field of fighters and get wasted.
Stinger: Easy battle. Just blast away.
Terminator: Moderate to difficult battle. The Terminator's twin blasters will destroy any fighter easily. Close in, flank, blast and hope a few shots get through. Alternatively you can send out a lot of fighters, which will prompt it to start blasting them, but some of them should get some shots in. While its distracted you can close in and take some shots of your own.
Torch: Easy battle. Pillbox and take potshots. Fighters are worthless except to keep (temporary) distance. They might also be a viable option if the Torch is on a fast approach. Fighters intercept and boom.
Trader: Flank and blast. Staying in front of this ship is the equivalent of suicide. If the screwer-upper connects, get away from him by timing your thrusts and riding on intertia. Evasion is actually a bit easier while screwed up, I find, but blasting become much more difficult. If its not charging a ball sending fighters will prompt it to greengun them to death, but can be useful as a distraction while you try to flank. Sending fighters while its charging red will often cause a panic, and give you an opening for uberblasting.
Transformer: Moderate battle. When in Y-Form, keep your distance and send a bunch of fighters his way. This should force him to turn to X-Form. As he's trying to shoot out the fighters, come in from the opposite side and start blasting, that is assuming if it lasts long enough for such.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on October 02, 2003, 07:59:30 pm
In an Kzer-Za vs. Kohr-Ah battle you recommend that the Kzer-Za maintain distance?
The Kohr-Ah have a vastly superior long-range weapon. Unless the Kohr-Ah pilot is incompetent, the Kzer-Za can do much better nose-to-nose. The rapid fire of the fusion cannon can reduce anything to slag in no time. Maybe launch one pair of fighters early on to lure out a FRIED so it has diminished battery power for the slugfest. But if your opponent is good at blading the fighters to death, don't bother, it'll just lose you 2 crew.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 02, 2003, 08:30:36 pm
Spurk, I've been running these tests from my desktop link. Only last night did I realize that it was my .2 link! :P I don't think that anything will change, except when I did the tests in 0.3, the Chmmr crew didn't get zappified. Ugh. *trashes outdated link*


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 02, 2003, 10:17:09 pm
Wow, this filled up fast. Lets see what we've done.
Avatar
Avenger
Blade
Broodhome
Crusier
Dreadnought
Eluder
Guardian
Intruder
Jugger
Marauder
Penetrator
Podship
Probe
Skiff
Terminator (although something besides "hack and slash!" would be nice :P)
Trader
Transformer

So, that leaves...
Drone
Fury
Mauler
Nemesis
Scout
Stinger
Torch

Hmm.. what to tackle next.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on October 03, 2003, 12:42:20 am
Quote
Terminator (although something besides "hack and slash!" would be nice :P)


Hey, not my fault the ship is so powerful that too many ships count as "hack and slash" figures :D


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 03, 2003, 12:44:45 am
Well Jiffa, I (and the rest of us, probably) would like you to get into gory details about your "hack and slash!". Do you drift your opponents? Strafe? Head-On? Each ship has different ways of killing it. Ex, I wouldn't Head-On a Stinger, etc.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on October 03, 2003, 12:50:18 am
Ok I'll explain, but before it, a little correction about the avatar weight classes. The yehat are in light weight. Yea in the beginning they act like "medium" weight but after it they are the second fastest ship with the treacor-beam bust(pkunk is first ofcourse).

Like I said in my post, the primary disadvantage of the terminator is the dynamo regenaration speed, and because the ship is too slow to raise the shields, shot and getting to a safe place before the dynamo power runs out, the primary strategy is gravity whip. The problem with the gravity whip is the planet. Newbies with this tactic will get hit by the planet many times and even "experts" will sometimes. Hack and slash means using the gravity whip and it is called "hack and slash" because you can finish him with one good gravity whip.

Just my 2 NIS.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 03, 2003, 01:49:09 am
Some call it pitiful and weak, but I call it...

Umgah Drone

+: AM Cone makes a great shield, large energy capacity, weapon doesn't drain energy, high damage weapon, Reverse presents unique opportunities for this ship.
-: Low crew, poor regular engines, poor weapon range, poor turning.

General tactics/ notes:

-Shielding: The Cone can be maintained indefinitly, you might as well do it. It can block most everything, but a point blank VUX/Chmmr Laser will puncture (usually the ship has to be within the cone for this to happen). Fusion Bolts, Chenjesu Photon Crystals (whole), Melnorme Red Fear Orbs and Druuge Shells do not fall victim either, so user be warned. (Do Shurikens? I haven't got a chance to check.)

-Energy: You regenerate your energy in one huge lump after 8 seconds of not using the Cone or Reverse. Remember that. Probably put this way as a joke to the Umgah, who knows. :P Also, you probably don't want to use up all the energy the Drone has all at once.

-You missed! Har! Har! Har!: If a non-homing projectile is dead on target with you, Reverse one little *blip*. It'll miss. If it's a homing projectile, turn your cone on and Reverse one *blip*. Using this on human opponents (especially Druuge) will get them very, very angry, making them more reckless in firing.

-Small Frame: The Drone is a TINY ship, making it hard to accurately hit. This coupled with Reverse can make this craft quite a nuisance in the right hands.

-Spread Weapon: The Cone sticks out about 30 degrees from the edge of the ship. Use this to your advantage when grazing someone.

-Full Speed...Backwards!: You can go a screen and a half if you burn up all the energy in the Drone going "straight backwards". You can also cut a half-circle using all the energy and holding down a direction. Naturally, you can alter your course less than this, but it's pretty useful at times.

-Drive-By: Reverse slightly to the side of your opponent, and crank the Cone on. You'll graze them for a few points as you go speeding past.

-The Umgah Butt-Slam (Har! Har! Har!): Reverse into your opponent. The Drone, as I mentioned in the Avatar tac, is a heavyweight despite it's size. They'll go sailing with the same speed the Drone has when it's in Reverse. Good for sending opponents hurtling (and hurling! Har! Har! Har!) into the planet. A way to amplify the Butt-Slam is to hit your opponent while they're manuvering the planet. Box them between you and the planet, and Slam 'em, but hold Reverse on. They'll hit the planet and deflect off, but guess what will still be coming at them? You'll grind them against the planet, and they'll die VERY quickly! Works against orbiters, too.

-One ship NOT to flank: As mentioned above, when fighting an Umgah (a human that's got some brains, anyway), don't flank it. More often than not you'll get a big Butt-Slam kiss and a round of Har! Har! Har!s from your buddy.

-The Lure: Get a faster...well, get ANY ship to chase you, turn around to face them, and Reverse one *blip*. This brings you to a full stop, with them still coming at you. Crank the Cone up, and let the bodyparts fly! Har! Har! Har!

Specialized Tactics:

-Avatar: You may not survive, but you can sure have some fun with the Avatar. One little *blip* of Reverse will effectively negate the Tractor beam, and it needs a constant pulll; you need but *blip* once in awhile. If it does manage to Slingshot you, try to graze it's ZapSats with the Cone as you sail past. Butt-Slamming isn't recommended due to the ZapSats, but if they're not there, DO IT. Avatars suffer huge casualties when they hit the planet slow, imagine what they lose at high speeds!

-Avenger: Heh, these poor devils. Your Cone stops the Hellblast, and keeps going. Just make sure not to touch the nose of the Avenger. Then the Hellblast WILL get through to you. Get the Avenger within the Cone, then just *blip* one back every so often to keep you safe and it toast.

-Blade: This ship is a PAIN. The Seedgun won't penetrate the cone, but it doesn't have to. The Blade can dance circles around you. If it does try to flank, give it a complementary Butt-Slam for it's troubles. To destroy a Blade, get them to chase you, turn to face, and use The Lure tactic I mentioned above. Hopefully, the player will be caught off guard and either die or suffer some heavy casualties.

-Broodhome: Butt-Slamming isn't recommended, as the Ak-Ak will get you, but, in Umgah spirit, I must comment how FUNNY it is to watch one of these brusiers go flying! Har! Har! Har! Anyway, the DOGI's will hamper your mobility, so try to either gravity-whip, or, if you get lucky, hose them with the outside edges of the Cone. Reverse past the Broodhome (arcing around the body of the ship), park, and Cone on! Beware that the full crystal will get through the Cone, so time this trick right.

-Crusier: Cone the two incoming Nukes, Reverse at them when they're low on energy, and Cone 'em. Butt-Slamming is effective here, as the Crusier's engines suck, but you will lose a crew if you do this.

-Dreadnought: Master's fighters go away very fast in cone! Har! Har! Har! Ohh, Master's Fusion Blasts don't though. If your opponent is dense enough to send fighters, hose em ASAP. Reverse cross-screen to get to them (if possible), arc around the Dread to get behind it facing forwards, stop as close as you can, and Cone. Butt-Slamming works well here.

-Drone: Mutually Assured Destruction. Har! Har! Har! Cones don't stop one another, and both ships go boom! Har! Har! Har! Amusing is the time when two Drones Butt-Slam one another. For the results, I'll just tell you to try it for yourself.

-Eluder: Another pest. They'll try to box you to make their BUTTS useful. You can make your butt useful too. Slam them into the planet as much as possible, and shield from the Punt Gun and BUTTS when you have to. This can be quite a drawn out affair, but if the Eluder can expose your sides, your history.

-Fury: Ugh. It's too damn fast! That, and Butt-Slamming won't affect it too much, as it's engines are very powerful. Orbit the planet, facing outward, Cone on. and hope the player screws up.

-Guardian: Blazer mode the come flying at us...right into our Cone! Har! Har! Har! If the Guardian is a Spittlebug player, vaccuum up the bubbles and go for the ship. Butt-Slamming isn't advised, since the Guardian can quickly switch to Blazer, in which case the joke is on you.

-Intruder: At the start of the fight, Reverse away from the dreaded laser. Limpets get chewn up in the Cone, and so do VUX. Reverse-Arc behind them, Cone up to defend from Limpets, wait for them to turn around to come to bear on you. The cone will soak up the Laser, and as they sit there, flash-firing on you, close in and finish them off.

-Jugger: Aie. You are a refueling station for a Jugger. Use the Cone only in defense against the Quad Cannon. Butt-Slam them into the planet, you've got no other choice. Usually, only two of the four Quad shots will hit, and, if you're lucky, only one.

-Marauder: Ugh. Cone the Shurikens as they get near. Reverse PAST the Marauder, and most people will try to FRIED you. Fortuantely, you're far too fast to be hit by it (unless they predict, then you're screwed.) Once their energy is down, Reverse at them again and Cone 'em or Butt-Slam 'em.

-Mauler: Don't try to soak up Shells, you can't. Reverse next to them to make most people go trigger happy to get away from that wicked Cone. Burning crew all the while, keep doing this until they're down to their last crew. Then, Reverse up to them and kill.

-Nemesis: Cone all the Marines send at you, and once the Nemesis stops sending them, chase it. You heard me, chase it! It's Howitzer can't penetrate the cone, and if you steer it toward the planet, you can force it into a grav-whip. While they're negotiating that, Reverse across-screen (can screw up people when it zooms out like that) and catch them on the other side! Har! Har! Har!

-Penetrator: Ugh. You WILL get sucked dry. Cone your traitors, and try your best to Butt-Slam the Syreen into the planet. You can try Reverse-Arcing around them for a lucky strike or 4, but don't count on it.

-Podship: Reverse in *blip* increments to wear down Plasmoids, and then Butt-Slam the fungi into the planet, or just sailing. On the bounceback/flyby, get them with the Cone. They'll regenerate, but you can knock 'em down faster than they can bring 'em back.

-Probe: Ugh. Butt-Slamming has no use here. Cone to defend from lightning strikes, and, just to be a jerk, try herding the asteroids. They'll be forced to come to you, where you may get a few lucky graze shots off.

-Scout: Mutually Assured Destruction. You can only run for so long...

-Skiff: Ugh. Butt-Slamming, as with the Probe, doesn't work. Fortuantely it has to get relatively close to attack, so hope they screw up and get TOO close. *blip* reverse to mess with their heads, then just don't do it one time.

-Stinger: Grrr. Cone will stop the little peashooter, and they won't usually try to Tongue you, but this fight can drag on forever. Reverse near them and try to Cone, but they'll probably flee.

Urgh, sorry this took so long to finish, but I've been busy.

-Terminator: A ship that, if met head on, you stand a moderate chance against. Charge straight on, Cone up, and hope that they dont try to strafe you. Butt-Slamming works, but is not particularly advised, since most times you will wind up as Dual Cannon fodder. They can't hold that shield forever...

-Torch: He's fast, and Reverse can be quite hazardous, as you will likely find yourself sucking Afterburner. Butt--Slamming is no good either, as they can straighten out too fast. Hope the pilot screws up, getting too cocky, and hits you by accident.

-Trader: Beware Purple and Red Orbs, your Cone won't stop them. Butt-Slamming works OK here, due to the Trader's large size, but beware the Screwer-Upper, as it will leave you a sitting duck. Reverse around them if they attempt a grav-whip, and catch them as they pass.

-Transformer: Your Cone will stop both Lasers and Missiles, but the Missiles will be your inevitable downfall. If you can stop the Transformer from going into Y-Form (the pilot thinks that he's good with X or soemthing similar,) you may have a fighting chance. Get the Transformer close, close enough to turn on his guns in X form. Once your cone absorbs the damage, get in close, and Cone away. To assist your foe in draining his batteries quickly, *blip* a few backwards every now and then.

There, it's done now.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sage on October 03, 2003, 03:33:51 am
Death_999: My words were "Don't send fighters from a distance unless he's out of energy, otherwise they're toast.", which was followed by "Close in and drop a few fighters in his lap."

I sort of indirectly stated that sending fighters from distance was good, but of course distance vs. Kohr-Ah = suicide. I suppose "potshots" would also indicate distance.

*changes the order of those sentences*


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on October 03, 2003, 05:13:09 am
Well, I'll try.

I remember this ship, it was just too powerful! No one could beat me(computer ofcourse) but now in uqm...something happened. Still when I play it in my old computer( the pc version) something is wrong... YOU ARE THE ONES TO BLAME!!! You did something that has changed it...

But never mind, I'll get over it. It is just a game, and it is still fun to use the ship!

I am talking about the Pkunk Fury!!! (Not the ultimate-fury as chmmravatar mentioned).

+ Great engine, great turning rate, resuructions, great rapidfire, insults, lightweight.

- Low dynamo recovery, few crew, weak battery (in my opinion),hard to contol, and even when you do, it is still damn hard!!!

Strategy:

-Sneak attack: against ships with low turning rate just come from back and shot at them until they are almost facing you, then run. Repeat. You might manage to do it against ships with higher turning rate but you could do less damage, and you might even get hit.

-Spinning of hell: Charge toward you enemy, turn around 270 degrees(right or left, doesn't matter) then shot and spin to the opposite direction you chose to turn( If you choose to turn right, you spin left and if you choose to turn left you spin right)

-Camping near the planet: Working only against ships with low turning rate. When the ship comes to attack, circle the planet and use Sneaky strategy.

-Small punishments: This is the second hardest strategy. Just circle the enemy, but don't forget to avoid his attacks, and shoot on him. This is really hard not to miss few or none.

-Butt kicking: The hardest tactic. Just get to his back and starting destroying him. The hard part is to manage to keep him not facing towards you, especially against ships like the Jugger. Faster then sneak attack but does more damage.

Against ships:

-Avatar: Use the flipping trick( Check in one of my post if you don't know what it means) and then rush and attack him from back. Don't worry about the zap-lites, you shot too many shots for them to protect the avatar and attacking you at the same time.

-Avenger: This one is a pain in the potworm! You can't come from his back because when the ship de-cloak it will face towards you. Your only chance is your longer range. Just stay in front of him(like it matters) out of the fire and shoot on him.

-Blade: Rush and kill him. You can try to lure him to strafe and then he will keep shooting and strafe but not on you! Easier to kill that way.

-Broodhome: If the DOGI annoys you, you the spinning of hell on them. If not or the DOGI are dead sneak from the back but beware from the shredds rapid fire!

-Cruiser: Just avoid the missles and when you come near him give everything you got. Don't worry about the laser, like the zap-lites, it can't stop the shots and attack you at the same time unless he uses it in the exact moment you touch him ( if you touch him at all).

-Dreadnought: If he sends fighters, kill 'em, if not come from his back and kill him. If you come from his back and he lauch fighters, just spin and shoot. Note that you can kill the fighters in another way, harder one. It must be 180 degrees from you. You shoot on the ship with the foward cannon and the fighters are getting slaughtered by the side cannons.

-Drone: come from back and kill the damn creature. Beware from the *blip*. You can end up in the cone.

-Eluder: Just attack him and avoid the shots. Try to make him to use all BUTT and then attack him from back.

-Fury: The one with better aiming wins.

-Guardian: Try to attack while avoiding the bubbles but always from side or back. That way if it shifts into comet form it won't hit you and you could run away because you are faster.

-Intruder: Come from back and try to avoid/shoot the limpest.

-Jugger: Try to attack from back. Be paitient. The player can't stop all shots. If he holds the shield forever, just stop shooting on him and let the shied drain.

-Maraduar: Come from back and kill. Beware of FRIED.

-Mauler: Avoid the shots and attack from back or sides.

-Nemesis: Kill the marines if he sends any and attack from the side the turret isn't facing to. But never attack from the back of the ship! The marines will toast you.

-Penetrator: Just charge and try to do the max damage you can and collect as many of your crew members.

-Podship: Come from back and attack or make the plasma shots hit the podship itself.

-Probe: It is all about aiming baby. Let the probe come and start shooting on it and run away while keep shooting on him when the battry is on 5 units. That way you could escape before battery runs out.

-Scout: Charge and hope to ressurect.

-Skiff: Let him come and shoot him before he teleports. Nothing else can be done.

-Stinger: Again, attack from back.

-Terminator: Attack from back, he can hold the shields forever.

-Trader: Attack from back. Try using the flipping trick to get him "showing" his butt. ;D

-Transformer: x-form, attack from back. Y-form, attack from back but beware it won't switch to x-from and hit you.

-Torch: Let him come and kill it. If you runs instead of attacking you, this fight can last forever... With less chances from YOU to survive because basiclly, you chase him and hope to catch him without getting hit. You can try make him use all dynamo for escaping this come from the other side and hopefully to hit him before he escapes again.

For summary, the basic tactic is "to attack from the back and run".

Just my 2 NIS.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on October 03, 2003, 05:21:17 am
Shofixti Strategy Guide
=======================
More strategy list fun.  Thought I'd do a writeup on the Shofixti - don't know why but here goes.  This fits with the computer in awesome, but probably will work on human targets as well to some degree.  And this also assumes starting out with a Shofixti that has full crew, in terms of win possibility.

Basically a weak and fragile small light ship (gets tossed around HARD by every little thing too) with a big bomb attached to it piloted by an insepid little rat and 3 of his friends.  A one shot kill for just about everything in the game - why I said don't know why is the basic theme is going to be to detonate the big bomb (or GD) while you're on top of the ship (16 damage if you keep track).  Very few ships you could even fight and win against.  If you've watched the computer, it always flicks the first two switches on.  Do the same, and learn to do it quick.  For ships I do mention putting a fight up against, watch your crew and if you end up with one left or it looks like you're about to go, fire the GD next to your opponent and move on.  The worst thing in fighting with this ship is actually getting beat and a good bomb going to waste ;D

Difficulty levels are more related to your survivability than whether you can win or not since the bomb blows your ship up and makes your ship a loss just the same as if the opponent blew it away.  However in the sense of taking the other ship out, most of these are possible with the Shofixti.  Chmmr, Ur-Quan, Kohr-Ah, Chenjesu, Utwig, Yehat, Druuge (fully crewed - if you get him to chew off about 4 of his crew then it becomes possible), Slylandro, and Pkunk (if he resurrects) are the ones that are not typically possible to wipe out with this ship.

Ur-Quan: Difficult fight.  Winnable, start swatting at fighters, when those stop coming, fly in and GD.

Orz: Difficult fight.  Same thing happens as the Ur-Quan.  The GD is MUCH harder to get here though.

Chmmr: Impossible fight.  The GD cooks zapsats quite well, master timing it so you can get all 3.

Mycon: Moderate to Difficult fight.  Chase it down, avoid the plasma and shoot at it, stick next to it and when it fires, send the plasma into it.

Earthling: Moderate to difficult fight.  Same thing as the Mycon, except you'll likely get the Point defense lots either in blocking shots or if you get close.  Do watch for nukes though.  If your crew gets down to one GD and move on.

Ilwrath: Moderate to difficult fight.  Very winnable without the GD - stick back and keep firing.  If you get in trouble where it looks like you won't avoid the Ilwrath, GD and move on.  Has too many crew to wipe out entirely by the GD.

Chenjesu: Impossible fight.  Get in close, get the GD in and move on.

VUX: Difficult fight.  Stay back and fire away, if it looks like the VUX will warp in right on top of you, go for the third time on your initial and move on.

Arilou: Impossible fight.  Get in close, get him to fire and let loose the GD.  Get him to fire, because of the previous thread.  The computer likely won't do this, but if a human player is ready, there's about a 50% chance he'll teleport and survive.

Shofixti: Impossible fight.  Basically who can GD the other first.  TWo ships gone in any event.  Funny part of playing this one is sometimes you'll get simultaenous detonation...that's fun to watch :)

Mmrnmhrm: Difficult to Impossible fight.  Wait for the X-form to come in, back away and fire.  The Y-form is very safe for you so fire away.  Annoying fight though - remember if you get down to one crew, find your time and GD this ship.

Slylandro: Impossible fight.  Too fast to catch for the full GD most times anyway.  Just GD this ship and move on.

Pkunk: Impossible fight.  GD this ship and hope your pal doesn't resurrect.  Funny part is when he does you still get your theme (in SC2).

Kohr-Ah: Impossible fight.  GD, move on.  Extremely lethal and tricky to even get the GD in on this one.

Druuge: Impossible fight.  You might get close enough to hurt him with the GD, but in truth, being a one shot kill against the Druuge doesn't help you.

Supox: Difficult to Impossible.  Basically you can try to hurt this ship with your gun, but he'll hurt you more and you'll end up GD'ing him anyway.  Worth at least trying to see what you can do against this ship though.

Umgah: Difficult to Impossible.  very hard to get around the cone, and you need to be perfect about it too, plus if he zips you won't last long in that cone.  You can try fighting him but better to GD and get him out of the way (clue: you have to be  right NEXT to the front of the cone for the GD to take him out completely).

Spathi: Difficult to Impossible fight.  If you avoid the BUTTs you can shoot him down and beat him - in truth though it's a pain and you can GD him when you get down to the right number of crew to knock him out.

Utwig: Impossible fight.  Just GD him - Good luck in getting in and GDing him though.  You could try to pick off his crew, but he has the shield and a gun with a longer range than yours.

Syreen: Impossible fight.  Can pick off your crew and blow you away VERY quickly if it gets close.  Just get close to it, let the GD loose and move on.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Moderate to Impossible fight.  Quite easy to blow away with your gun as long as you stay away from it.  IF it gets close enough to really hit you, fire the GD and move on.

Yehat: Impossible fight. GD him and move on.

Thraddash: Moderate to difficult fight.  As long as you're careful about its shots, this guy even falls under the might of the Shofixti military ;D  If you're not so careful, well the GD takes him out just the same.

Melnorme: Difficult to Impossible fight.  One hit you're done (greengun or charged).  But at the same time, you need to take some of this guy's crew down.  Running in firing before you GD works quite well.  Of course, you might be able to continue on, but like I said a wasted big bomb is not a good thing.

Androsynth: Difficult to Impossible.  If he bubbles you, just dance around and fire away on him, if he comets, run and try to get a few shots before you GD yourself right in front of his face.

P.S. Necro yes I'm playing on SC2, the versions of UQM I've seen so far have been pretty unstable and won't let me redefine the keys (will .3 do that, I haven't seen it)...it'd be interesting to know whether the AI has changed much between the PC and 3DO versions.

I have Arilou and Melnorme ones already done (written before you posted yours Necro) if anyone is interested in seeing those, and could probably do ZFP, Orz, or Druuge the next time (whatever I see that hasn't been done when I decide to do another one).


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on October 03, 2003, 05:22:59 am
And yeah, before someone comments, it's 5 of his friends and not 3.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on October 03, 2003, 08:41:03 am
Quote
Umgah: Difficult to Impossible.  very hard to get around the cone, and you need to be perfect about it too, plus if he zips you won't last long in that cone.  You can try fighting him but better to GD and get him out of the way (clue: you have to be  right NEXT to the front of the cone for the GD to take him out completely).

Actually, I find the matchup to be pretty easy. The one thing NECRO-99 didn't mention in his Umgah guide is that while the AM cone is effective at blocking shots head on, it's not as great at blocking shots from the sides. Any ship I have that fires projectile weapons uses the same strategy against the Umgah.

Fly in a circle around the Umgah and when you are at an angle, fire at him. The shot will go through the side of his cone and hit him on his back. Pretty nice and it doesn't involve trying to flank him.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on October 03, 2003, 09:01:36 am
Agreed.  I guess I was thinking a human that might actually zip you while you're moving around it.  We do have to keep in mind that the computer will just chase you and keep the AM cone up, which makes the shoot-around scheme perfect.

As an FYI, zipping anywhere near a computer-controlled awesome Shofixti brings an immediate glory device - probably would with a human player too.

Quote

Actually, I find the matchup to be pretty easy.



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on October 03, 2003, 09:53:47 am
Quote
I suppose "potshots" would also indicate distance.


That is what I was thinking of... *rereads*


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on October 04, 2003, 10:05:40 am
Zot-Foq-Pik Strategy Guide
=======================
More strategy list fun.  Thought I'd do a writeup on the Zot-Foq-Pik.  This fits with the computer in awesome, but probably will work on human targets as well to some degree.  And this also assumes starting out with a Zot-Foq-Pik that has full crew, in terms of win possibility.

Basically a weak light ship with good short-range weapons, but again they're short range weapons which makes you an easy target.  Takes a lot of skill and timing to be able to handle.  Use the spray gun most times, except for whenever you can get the timing down to use the tongue (if I don't say different).  You might like that sound-effect when the tongue misses, but it becomes the most annoying thing if you are using this ship.

Ur-Quan: Difficult fight.  Stay away from the main ship and swat fighters.  The spray gun works quite well for that.  Then use the tongue to finish.

Orz: Difficult fight.  Same thing as the Ur-Quan basically.  Use the spray-gun to finish.

Chmmr: Difficult to Impossible fight.  Circle the ship and use the spray gun, keeping away from the zapsats and the main gun.  One mistake will end it.

Mycon: Moderate fight.  Avoid the plasma, come in, tongue, shoot away, lead the plasma into the ship.

Earthling: Moderate fight.  Avoid the missiles, come in and go.

Ilwrath: Moderate fight.  Stick back and use the spray gun.

Chenjesu: Impossible fight.  Get in close, either use the spray gun or tongue, get your shot in and move on.

VUX: Difficult fight.  Use your spray gun and fire away.  Very close quarters fight, one mistake could end it.

Arilou: Impossible fight.  Basically hard to hit this guy.  You might get a lucky tongue hit, but in truth you'll get wiped out.

Shofixti: Difficult to Impossible fight.  You can spar with this guy pretty well - stay back though.  If he decides to use the Glory Device and you get close enough, you're done though.

Mmrnmhrm: Difficult fight.  Approach this ship in X-form and use the spray gun and dance around it.  If it switches to Y-form, stand there and shoot away.

Slylandro: Impossible fight.  Too fast and blocks most of the shots from your spray gun anyway.

Pkunk: Difficult fight, chase, turn and fire the spray gun.  Patience is a virtue here.  If he resurrects, you'll likely be a goner.

Kohr-Ah: Difficult fight.  If you are good at avoiding the blades you can time it, whip around and tongue the ship - if you don't thrust, the blow will blow you back away from the ship.

Druuge: Difficult to impossible fight.  Get him to fire, come back and either tongue or scatter gun him.

Supox: Difficult fight.  Dogfight with the scatter gun.  Very easy to get the tongue in too if the Supox makes a big mistake.

Umgah: Difficult fight.  Try to shoot around the cone with the scatter gun.  In truth though a very long fight in doing that.

Spathi: Difficult to Impossible fight.  If you avoid the BUTTs you can shoot him down and beat him with the scatter gun - in truth though it's a pain and he'll likely outlast you.

Utwig: Impossible fight.  Try to come in fast and tongue him - maybe you'll catch him when he's of the mind of firing on you instead of shielding.

Syreen: Difficult fight.  Can pick off your crew very easily, but you can scatter gun/tongue this ship easily if you are on the ball.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Moderate fight.  Basically a big dogfight - he with the skillz wins.

Yehat: Impossible fight if their reactions with the shield is good.  Get in front of the guns you're done.  Usually I like to just charge this guy and hope I can get the tongue in before I go down.

Thraddash: Moderate fight.  As long as you're careful about avoiding the shots and the afterburner fire, you can use the scatter gun or tongue to take this guy down rather easily.

Melnorme: Difficult fight.  One hit you're done (greengun or charged).  He steers so boxy that you can tongue him rather easily, stay away from the main gun or you're done.

Androsynth: Difficult to Impossible.  If he bubbles you, just charge in and try to tongue him (time it to bounce out).  If he comets you try to turn and give him the tongue.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 07, 2003, 01:30:11 am
Had a hard time believing no one did this one from the start, but here goes. The ship I love to hate...

Orz Nemesis

+: Decent crew/battery, decent primary weapon range, turreted weapon allows for angled shots/strafing, turns well, autonomous attackers.
-: Moderate engine, primary weapon drains energy quickly, medicore energy regeneration.

General Tactics/Notes

-*GO! GO! GO!*: Be careful with your Marines. They may pack a punch, but release too many, and you'll only be able to absorb light damage before you bite the dust. On the flip-side of this, Marines themselves can take up to three points of damage before dying, know how to grav-whip, and don't need to return to the Nemesis like Dreadnought Fighters. If you're being chased and know you're going to get hit with something painful (Fusion Bolt, Photon Crystal), drop a Marine. It will die, yes, but it will soak up the entire shot. Better to lose one than six. Also take note that when a Marine enters a ship, it instantly kills one crew.

-Now or Later?: Dropping Marines at the start of the fight makes them Harassers; pestering the opponent into evasive manuvers and setting them up for your Howitzer. Marines dropped at close range are Invaders; those that will most likely get into the ship for damaging purposes. All Marines obviously have the potential to be Invaders, but agasint faster ships, they will likely be Harassers if they don't get into the ship right away.

-Terror of Turrets: Your flanking abilities in this ship are only outdone by the Skiff and the Probe. Crank the turret to a 90 degree angle, pop a few shots on the fly-by, then turn around, readjust the turret to front, and flank away.

-Sniper?: Know the range of your Howitzer. It's good, but it's not a true sniper. It will outrange most, though, so use this to your advantage. It also, at full fuel, can only fire 3 sucessive shots in a row, so be accurate.

-Between a Rock and a Killer: Box your opponent between you and the planet when you've got Marines about. They'll have to decide: Attempt a grav-whip, leaving them vulnerable to the gun? Try to kill the Marine, also distracting them from you? Or just soak up the Marine and get it over with?

-Different Damage: It's been said before, and it seems to be true: Marines kill different races faster than others. Humans, Syreen, Umgah, Orz (yes, themselves) and both Ur-Quan (of all the races!) drop like flies (av. 6-10) when being attacked by Marines, while Chenjesu, Mmrnhrmn, Chmmr, and Mycon can beat them back with only minor losses (av 1-4). Other races (Thraddash, Supox, Ilwrath, Utwig) sustain average damage from Marines (around 4-6).

Specialized Tactics:

-Avatar: Mwah. You can stay away from the Tractor for a good while, but eventually it will catch you. When it's getting close, turn about 30 degrees and keep going. This usually screws up the Tractor and the person will disengage and turn to face you again. When this happens, Turret to 180 and Howitzer the living daylights out of the Avatar. It's just a matter of time before it dies. Marines only after it's lost a ZapSat or two.

-Avenger: Don't bother with Marines, they'll just come running back or possibly get cooked. Do some rangefinding, and once you've got a fix, keep firing. It can't catch you.

-Blade: At the beginning of the fight, send one Harasser after the Blade. This will keep it occupied while you box/flank it and Howitzer away. If it kills the Marine, send another, but don't do this more than 3 times, as it seems wasteful if the person is that good a shot. Try to Rock-and-a-Killer it, that seems to work.

-Broodhome: Send 4 Invaders to *dance* with the Broodhome, no more than this though. Ak-Ak will wreak havoc if you get big groups of Marines sent. Avoid DOGI's; actually, they're really easy to kill. DOGI's only avoid the front of a ship (where the gun USUALLY is.) Turret to face them and blast 'em.

-Crusier: Send 3 Invaders to force the Crusier into a gravity well. Once there, Howitzer and let the Marines finish the job.

-Dreadnought: Stay the wrath of your Marines; deal with the Fighters first. Try guiding them into asteroids, or get them all in a line and send a Howitzer shot through the lot of them. Once the Dreadnought stops sending Fighters, it's your turn. By this time the Dread will be quite weak, so 2 or 3 Marines should do the job. If you're feeling mean and like to think of things in a homicidal-poetic sense, send about 8 Marines and watch the Dreadnought "hatch like an green egg with a blossom of violent parasites" when it dies.  (Yea, I'm partially sadistic.)

-Drone: Beware the Cone, your Marines cannot withstand such punisment. Get behind them and THEN send Invaders. Harassers are not recommended as they will more than likely get hosed by the Cone. If they even think about Reversing into you, drop a Marine to change their minds.

-Eluder: Unless you are at point-blank range, all Marines will be Harassers in this case. Send about 3 to harass, then box and Howitzer. If you get close, drop an Invader for help. You can stay out of the range of the Punt Guns, but the BUTT's range will prove lethal if you're not careful.

-Fury: Pesty thing, all Marines are going to be Harassers again, and they unfortunately die quite quickly to a Death Blossom. Wait for the Fury to get within range (it has to), and try a Howitzer spread. One at an left angle, one directly on, one at a right angle. When it jukes, you might get lucky.

-Guardian: Marines are ill-advised here; the Blazer will comet their fishy guts all over the cosmos. Go for the planet and take a whip to keep away from the Blazer, taking pot-shots all the while. A good time to drop a Marine or three is when the Blazer is just about to run out of energy (2 or 3 points). Send a Marine then. About the time the two converge, the Blazer will run out of gas, leaving it vulnerable. If it's a spittlebug, the Howitzer will blow through bubbles about 45% of the time if it's a big cloud, so keep shooting.

-Intruder: Get away from the Laser and move to flank. Once you've flanked him, Marines-ho! 4 usually do the trick for me. Stay away from Limpets, too, as they cause problems for thrust (turning doesn't matter as much due to the Turret.)

-Jugger: The Shield will keep Marines busy, but they can't hold it up forever. Try to get a flank (easier said than done) and send one or two their way. If they shield, the Marines bounce, but they still lose energy. You can also play with human opponents by swiveling the turret around JUST before you fire when you're aimed at them, thus making them think they're going to be hit and wasting precious fuel.

-Marauder: Howitzer twice to burn off FRIEDs (vs. computer), or get close enough to where a human thinks a FRIED will connect. Once they're low on gas, Invaders, around 5, and a Howitzer headache will spell the end. Beware Shurikens, as they eat Marines quite handily.

-Mauler: Mwah. Send 2 Harassers to start the recoil process, then get in their flight path and drop a third. They sail across the screen and catch a Marine! As for a direct firefight, you're the one to be on their toes. Your Howitzer is no match for the Artillery they've got, so try to get close (or catch them on the wraparound) and blast away.

-Nemesis: Eheh, this is a hard fight, actually. Send one (1) Marine only to Harass(and possibly Invade) the Nemesis. Once you've got them busy (and no doubt you'll be busy fending off Marines as well), gravity whip away from them and give 'em hell. Once your buddy stops sending Marines, if you've still got enough crew left, send some yourself. It's all about skill, here.

-Penetrator: GET AWAY! Each crewmen sucked out is a potential 6-10 kills! Gravity whip to keep distance, and spew Marines. I will purposely go overboard with them to keep the Penetrator at bay, usually around 6.

-Podship: This thing is a pain. Flee from the Plasmoids, although they will catch you eventually, fire 3 into the Podship, and start sending Marines. The player will have to choose; potentially kill the Marines with Plasmoids, or regenerate while the Marines are in the ship? Neither option is good. Make them decide multiple times. :P

-Probe: Good Probers can zappify the Marines with impunity, so don't bother if you know your opponent knows how to handle the ship. Orbit the planet (careful not to get knocked by the Probe) and let 'em have it once they get close.

-Scout: 2 shots. Gravity whip away. No Marines. 'nuff said.

-Skiff: Play hell with them by dropping 2 Harassers just to piss them off. Forcing the decision between teleporting or shooting isn't one many people will take on the side of shooting, so make sure the planet is in view and hope for that 1%! While they're in range and not being too harassed by Marines, Howitzer to harass them yourself.

-Stinger: Rotate 180 and Howitzer while running. Marines aren't worth it here, but if you're feeling like a game of overkill, go ahead.

-Terminator: You can outrun him, so crank that Howitzer 180 and start shelling. Marines usually get chewed up by Quad Cannons, so user beware. An evil trick is to Howitzer your three to lower their batteries, then send a Marine to get in while their shield/Cannons are out. Just keep pounding and you'll eventually win.

-Torch: Sit still, wait for it, and blast it to bits with your Howitzer. No Marines here, as they are apt to suck Afterburner in the worst kind of way.

-Trader: Screwer-Upper is your enemy here, as it will null both Marines AND Turreting. If they've got a charge held up, keep away and no Marines. If they're Greengunning, send Marines, as the Trader can't escape them. 3 to weaken it (sometimes destroy it, I guess) and then a brief shower of Howitzer to finish it off.

-Transformer: vs. X-Form: Keep your distance from those Dual Lasers. Marines, once inside the arc of the Lasers, have no trouble getting in, but they may get cut down passing through. vs. Y-Form: Send one or two Harassers to keep them busy while you get into their flight line and Howitzer them senseless. If you can manage to bump the Y-Form, it may give your Harassers a chance to become Invaders.

There it is. I'm going to do Thraddash next, so if anyone else wants it, do it now. Think I'll modify the Guardian one to include General Tactics/Notes too.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Nic. on October 08, 2003, 07:47:58 am
Quote
-Different Damage: It's been said before, and it seems to be true: Marines kill different races faster than others.

It is also absolutely false.  ;)  The way the "marine code" works is (basically) that at various points in the game, it picks a random number between 0 and 255, inclusive.  If that number happens to be of a value below 144, the marine kills one member of the crew, and if it is below 16, the marine dies.  In all other cases, it does nothing at all.  Much like the Pkunk respawning, we seek to find patterns in a set of events that are, at heart, purely random.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled strategy discussion.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 08, 2003, 09:32:02 pm
Another myth dissolved. It just must seem like it is all.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Dillrat on October 10, 2003, 12:27:57 am
My best ship in SC2 was and is the Airlou ship.  I could take on my friends all day with that little bugger :)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Megagun on October 10, 2003, 04:49:00 pm
I dont know if the Chmmr Avatar has been mentioned before, but here i will mention it with some tactics against some chmmr-killers (orz, Supox..)

favorite ship(s): Avatar, Nemesis, Dreadnought. (following tactics are for the avatar)

+: Zap-sats and its powerful laser
-: Slowness, bulkyness, its size.


Avatar vs:

Supox Blade-> Pretty easy when you know the trick.. ALWAYS run away from the blade , this sounds cowardly, but when you see the rest of this tactic, ull know what i mean. When the blade follows you (it will, trust me..) and when it comes close, TRACTOR it!!! IT will bump into you, and the zap-sats will do big damage to the blade, repeat this (and when your opponent stops following you: use the gravity whip)

Orz Nemesis-> same as with the supox blade..

Umgah Drone-> Fairly easy.. face towards the drone and tractor it, when it comes close, fireeee!!!

Androsynth Guardian-> Bit hard... just ALWAYS face towards the guardian, wait for it to come to you.. if it doesnt come towards you, turn 180 degrees and wait until it does comet toward you. now turn back towards the guardian and shoot it! You will get severely punished, but you'll make it...

Kohr-ah marauder-> Yikes, hard battle.. First rule in this one is that you should NEVER LET THE MARAUDER GRAVITY WHIP TOWARDS YOU, and NEVER LET IT DO ITS SPECIAL WEAPON, it will frag all of your zap-sats! Nice tactic: use gravity whip yourselve, when you fly towards the marauder, fly a bit to its side or its back.now turn 90 degrees so youll face the marauder, and keep shooting.. Note: this tactic works best when the marauder has zero battery..



good luck :)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Krulle on October 10, 2003, 05:34:26 pm
That's against the AI (with Supox vs. Chmmr)?
I never (!) hunt a human player in a Chmmr. I always try to come from the front (wrap the map). And i always stop following when i reach weapons range (with Supox i then hit the Rally-gear, like the R in a car). That's still too far away for the laser and therefor still enough time to react on a sudden gravitypull.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: meep-eep on October 10, 2003, 08:11:29 pm
Quote

It is also absolutely false.  ;)  The way the "marine code" works is (basically) that at various points in the game, it picks a random number between 0 and 4294967295, inclusive.  If that number happens to be of a value below 144, the marine kills one member of the crew, and if it is below 16, the marine dies.

Not quite. The random value is cast to a BYTE, thereby only taking the lowest 8 bits, giving a value between 0 and 255 (inclusive).
So each time the chance is 1/2 for an intruder to kill an enemy, 1/16 to die, and 7/16 to do nothing.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on October 10, 2003, 09:27:03 pm
With Chmmr hunting fastships, I like to grav-whip up to very high speed, then use the tractor to pull them in for brief bursts of terawatt laser. When it takes some effort just to stay out of your way, it isn't so hard to tractor the hapless critters in.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on October 10, 2003, 10:17:07 pm
Quote
Not quite. The random value is cast to a BYTE, thereby only taking the lowest 8 bits, giving a value between 0 and 255 (inclusive).
So each time the chance is 1/2 for an intruder to kill an enemy, 1/16 to die, and 7/16 to do nothing.

Well that makes more sense. I couldn't help but think that the way Nic described it meant that a marine should pretty much sit around doing nothing a whole lot of the time.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on October 10, 2003, 11:11:35 pm
With apologies to NECRO-99, but he did leave it open to someone else.

Thraddash Torch
+: Relatively fast, good range, afterburner, extremely fast with afterburner; gun bullets indestructible(?).
-: Puny gun; puny firing rate; limited crew

General tactics:
- It's all about the afterburner. It leaves fire trails like there's no tomorrow. There's three ways to use it offensively and two ways to use it defensively.

-Offensive number one (O1): Burn a vertical wall in front of your opponent's flight path. If he's slow, he'll crash into a number of your fires before being able to avoid it.

-Offensive number two (O2): Burn a horizontal wall in front of the opponent's flight path. It increases the chances of a ship crashing into it, but only one of two will hit him so the damage will be less.

-Offensive number three (O3): Burn an arc around your opponent. This is much like O2.

-Defensive number one (D1): Zoom away. This may seem obvious, but the afterburner makes the Torch one of the fastest in the game.

-Defensive number two (D2): Burn an arc away from your opponent dividing you from him. This will force him to turn away. It will also block most of your enemies fire and/or other surprises.

-I find burning paths around the planet works really well since the Thraddash is very manuverable and not too affected by the planet. Most of your opponents are as lucky.

-Just how strong is that gun of the Torch's? It pierces a Drone's cone and doesn't seem to get zapped by a PDL. Two Zapsats do seem to be able to get it though.

-Short random burns do a good job of screwing up your opponent's aim.

Specialized tactics:
Avatar: Either really easy, or really hard. If the opponent pursues you, you can use O1. If he pillboxes, you're screwed. (Fortunately, the computer does the former.)
Avenger: Don't burn, you can outrun him with your regular thrusters (though if you constantly turn, he will catch up with you). Though you can coax him into your fire, I find it easier just to fire at him with the gun.
Blade: The comptuer is pretty stupid with this ship too. It will sometimes fly into your fire. Regardless, I do O2 near a planet.
Broodhome: Hard fight. The crystals fly through your fire like they weren't there. Killing DOGIs is easy, but you have to kill the Broodhome and that's hard. O2 is the best attempt. Use your gun if you have the chance.
Cruiser: Burning is too much effort. Come up on him using your thrusters and take him out with your gun. If he tries to use his PDL, it won't work, and if he does fire nukes at you, burn away from them.
Dreadnaught: Use D2 against the fighters. Then use O2 or O1. Hope he doesn't pillbox.
Drone: No burn, just gun. I'm not sure if the gun bullets are really indestructible, but you can fire right through the Umgah's cone like it wasn't there.
Eluder: I use O2 near a planet.
Fury: O2 near a planet.
Guardian: O2 near a planet, but if he's stupid enough to blaze, you can really take him down with your burner. (The computer always blazes and so he's an easy kill.)
Intruder: You can O2, but the guy is so slow the fire normally dissipates by the time he gets there. Still an easy kill.
Jugger: The computer is stupid again. It will run into your afterburner without shielding sometimes. Why? I don't know, but I'm glad. Hard kill otherwise, you basically have to hope the Jugger will run into your fire. O1.
Marauder: O1 works pretty well against this guy. Just leave a short burn for him to FRIED and then leave a long burn for him to deal with. Hope he doesn't pillbox.
Mauler: Not very easy. A good shooter will be able to get you from anywhere, and the only way he'll get burned is if he doesn't stop his recoil. Make him waste his fuel then shoot him.
Nemesis: D2 against the marines. Then either O2 or your gun.
Penetrator: O2 near a planet. Try not to get too close.
Podship: Using the speed from your burner, you can pull the Mycon's fire back on him. Of course, you can just O2 or O1 (or O3) or use your gun.
Probe: Hope for a bad pilot (like the computer). O1 works better than O2. O3 is pretty good too. D1 when necessary.
Scout: O2 near a planet can kill the Scout before you both die.
Skiff: Like the Probe, hope for a bad pilot (like the computer sometimes). O3 or D2 seem to have the best luck for me. A close-up fight will be very hard for you.
Stinger: O2 near a planet.
Terminator: Like the Jugger, the computer has no concept of shielding to protect from the burner. (Well, okay, it has some concept, but it doesn't always do it.) O1 or O2 near a planet will probably get you something with a smart pilot.
Torch: O2 near a planet or use your gun if you're a better shooter than your opponent. Your own burn won't hurt you. Make sure you know whose burn is whose.
Trader: Don't get hit by the confusion ray. Ever. Your small crew makes you a fairly easy kill for the Trader once he's got you confused. Otherwise, O2.
Transformer: X: Use your gun, stay out of his range. Y: O1, O2, or O3. His poor turning will really kill him.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 13, 2003, 11:00:49 pm
Spurk, your strats are good, so no apologies needed for doing the Thraddash. :P

Well, I'll finish off the list. They're callous, they're evil, they're...

Druuge Mauler

+:Heavy damage weapon, amazing range, decent battery size, a good pilot can use recoil to their advantage.
-:Horrendous battery regeneration, moderate/low crew, secondary sacrifices structure for power, weak engines

General Tactics/Notes:

-Argh!ing: Don't get overzealous in Argh!ing your crew, you may need them later. I usually Argh! them only if I absolutely, do-or-die, need an escape for fuel, or unless I note otherwise. Also, don't ever Argh! two crew at once. You may need the one to soak up damage.

-Sniper: Hands down, you are one of the most lethal non-homing sniper ships in the game. Use your Shell's insane range and high velocity to your adavantage. Also remember as a sniper, you should typically...

-Keep your distance: If you get close, you're more than likely going to be pulverized. Unless you're really bad aim and you need to point-blank someone (P:0 when mentioned from now on), stay away from your opponent.

-Recoil: You may, in some cases, burn up 2 or 3 shots to get yourself going to escape an opponent. 5 (I think) is your maximum velocity, but it gets quite difficult to control a good, safe stop when doing this. If you're lined up with a slower ship, or one that got Limpeted, simply keep thrusting while firing, you'll experience about half the recoil you usually do.

-Planet Slam: This is tricky, but quite effective. Catch a ship when it is attempting a gravity whip. They're usually larger ships, so they can get Shelled with ease. Besides the damage they take from the shell, they'll also potentially get pushed into the planet, wreaking more havoc!

-Broadsides: This ought to be obvious, but keep your skinny side pointed at your opponent at all times. If you get caught with your long, vulnerable broadside to someone, Recoil away or try to turn fast enough to get a shot off.

Specialized tactics:

-Avatar: Mwah. Turn to face them A.S.A.P., and let them tractor you somewhat. When you've got a bead on their bigger-than-the-broad-side-of-a-barn ship, Shell them. You'll probably need to Argh! one or two, but your recoil will be partially offset by the Tractor, so don't worry too much about massive backblast.

-Avenger: All you can do is judge where they are and hope for a lucky shot. You are slightly faster than the Avenger, so drifting is an excellent tactic.

-Blade: Ugh. A skilled Blade pilot will dance around you and make you burn up Shells and Argh! crew. Your best bet is to try to Pillbox (stand still and wait for them) and get your shots when you can. You only need 4...

-Broodhome: Keep away from those DOGI's, they'll hose you like no other. Keep the Broodhome in your sights, and don't let up on the barrage until it falls. Beware however, it has potentially limitless range, and your Shell vs. it's Photon Crystal = draw. A good time to open up is when it has just released a DOGI and is low on battery for a time. Gravity whipping will keep you from DOGI's, and, in a pinch, Recoil away from them. Planet Slam if possible, but I'll just assume it's a given on larger ships.

-Cruiser: The PDL won't stop a Shell. 4 shots to kill, but beware the Nukes, they can put a dent in you.

-Dreadnought: Keep away from Fighters, but don't try to shoot them down. You can try dragging them into asteroids, but don't concentrate on this too hard, as you'll have Fusion Bolts raining down on your head. Keep your distance from the Dreadnought, and take shots when the fighters turn to head back to the ship.

-Drone: Your Shell will pierce their Cone. Keep your distance (not too difficult) and Shell when you can. *blip*ers will be problematic, but you can just off-set your course a bit to their rear and chuckle when they Reverse right into your Shell.

-Eluder: They're fast, but their large form presents a target just begging to be blasted full of holes. Gravity Whips (possibly) keep you at pace with the Eluder, but Recoiling away works better. Keep from BUTTS, and Shell away.

-Fury: Ugh. This thing is the bane of Maulers. One shot is all it can handle, but regardless, ugh! Try Pillboxing to get off a lucky shot, and hope they don't ressurect.

-Guardian: The Bubbles won't stop a Shell, so if they're a Spittlebug, blast away. A Fireball player presents a bit more of a problem. Get going to near full Recoil speed, and hope you're accurate, because if you're not, you're Blazer food.

-Intruder: Recoil away from them the instant you hit the battlefield. Those Limpets spell your doom, and that Laser isn't too friendly either. Once you're away, Shelling them into submission isn't too difficult.

-Jugger: Ugh. You're a flying resupply ship for the Jugger's batteries. Try to do a Planet Slam on them, but don't hope for anything spectacular.  You're more than likely going to get chewed up and spit out.

-Marauder: Stay away from Shurikens as best you can and Shell away. The FRIED soaks up a shell, but leaves them at half power. Then is when you strike. You need 7 hits to kill, so fire away when you've gotten lined up.

-Mauler: Sniper war. Wheee. ;D They who have the better aim wins.

-Nemesis: Shelling Marines may be fun, but it's not too economical for you. Recoil away from them, but just fast enough to keep pace, not to escape. When an opening in the fleeing takes place, take your shot. Depending on the player, you'll need 2 to 4 shots to drop the Nemesis, so take them sparingly.

-Penetrator: Shell them. Don't try any tricks. Argh! crew. Its better to have fuel than your crew in their ship. At first, you only need 2 shots, but if they soak up your crew, you'll need 4 or so. Don't let them get anywhere near you. EVER.

-Podship: Shoot the Plasmoids, then Planet Slam them when they invariably go for their grav-whip. They can't regenerate fast enough to keep up with your damage demands.

-Probe: Ugh. As I mentioned in the Probe strat: The contorting body can be a pain to hit. Recoil at full speed away. This isn't enough speed to outrun the Probe, so this will make most people chase you. When they do, show them the error of their ways with 3 well place shots.  ;D

-Scout: Try to put it away before it Kamikazes you all over space. This devil is hard to hit, so be very patient, until you feel you're within range of the Kamikaze, then Recoil like mad to get away.

-Skiff: Ugh. Teleportation makes sniping very inneffective. Try faking out a friend to force them to Teleport, and hope they hit the planet. All you need is one lucky shot, need you be reminded...

-Stinger: A close fighter that has little chance against you. They can juke your Shells, but eventually they'll make a mistake. 2 shots to drop the Stinger.

-Terminator: Ugh. Shell them and hope for an error in their shielding judgement. If they're good shielders, however, you're going to the Unspecified Afterlife as stated in the Druuge's documentation.

-Torch: Sit still. The Afterburners can't affect you if you don't go anywhere. When they get close, fire to either the right or the left fo the ship, as most Thraddash pilots will swerve to avoid the (expected) incoming projectile. You only need 2...

-Trader: Ah, the Trade Wars. Screwer-Upper will disable your Argh!ing abilities, so if you get hit, make your shots count. The Melnorme ship is a nice large target, so take your shots whenever you feel you've got the chance to hit. As always with the Trader, beware the Purple and Red Orbs, they will cause you significant pain.

-Transformer: X-Form: Shell them with impunity once you've gotten lined up. They can't catch you, so concentrate on evading asteroids and that ever-sneaky planet. Y-Form: Get in the direct path of their flight and Shell away when they're in range.

Wow....no more ships to talk about.
You know...if we wanted to keep this post going, we could mention ships that others did, and have others talk about the ones we talked about if we have different views on the way to pilot. So, I can't do:
Guardian
Probe
Crusier
Trader
Avatar
Drone
Nemesis

If you guys like that idea, run with it. If not, well, Ima do ships till there are no more, so phooey on youey. :P


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Mormont on October 21, 2003, 02:42:35 am
Shofixti Scout

Introduction: Although the Shofixti is far from a great ship, it's not that bad. A scout can kill many of the ships, and seriously weaken most of them. There aren't ships in the game that can stop a well-flown shofixti from exploding pm. I usually throw a couple onto my team and keep them in reserve.

Tips:
-   Use the gravity whip! The scout benefits from it a lot. Makes you MUCH harder to hit.
-   Always go in with your guns firing. That gives you a bit of extra damage, and can make the difference between killing a medium-sized ship and weakening it.
-   Remember, several of the ships can be destroyed without self-destructing.
-   Needless to say, always arm your bomb at the beginning!

Androsynth: Against the computer, shoot the comet a couple of times, then glory device. It's a little trickier a against a human though, cause they can often fake you out and make you self-destruct not close enough, doing little or no damage. I reccomend getting a gravity whip at the beginning to avoid the comet, or try to outmaneuver him if the planet is too far away. When the fuel is depleted, fire your peashooter a few times and KYAAIEEEE!  

Arilou: Easy. Wait till he gets close and explode. Human players can sometimes teleport at the last second though.

Chenjesu: An interesting tidbit: DOGIs give the scout a huge speed boost! :)  Anyway, it's actually possible to get behind and use your nerf gun to wear him down, cause it just outranges the ack-ack.  What I usually do is run around behind the broodhome shooting it, and when I'm down to 2 crew (that's 2 shard hits), I use the glory device.

Chmmr: Let him have it with the glory device! If he's stupid enough to tractor you in, then it's easy. If he doesn't use the tractor beam, go for the planet and fly in acclerated by a grav whip. You'll take out his zapsats and over a third of his health - the next ship should be able to mop up.

Druuge: The gun isn't that hard to dodge, but one screwup will kill you, so be careful. Wait until he's flying backwards, get behind him, and self-destruct. Against decent human pilots, they'll know better than to go flying backwards against a scout, so you'll need a gravity whip.

Earthling: The nukes aren't difficult to dodge, just wiggle away at the last second. Against the computer you can get behind him and shoot at him, laughing as he stupidly wastes fuel on point defense. However, humans will just fire a nuke right into your face, so against a human player go in with guns blazing and explode.

Ur-quan - This ship probably has the worst AI in the game. Against the computer, you can pick off all its fighters until it's really low on crew, then kill him with your glory device. Against humans, get a gravity whip, go in with guns blazing, and explode.

Orz: Tough fight. Head for the planet FAST before those marines get anywhere close. Pick off the marines, but watch out for the orz coming in to cut you off while you're shooting them. Use the planet a lot, and hopefully you'll eventually get close enough to explode. Don't hold out too much hope though.
 
Mycon: Probably the third easiest fight for the shofixti. Run around shooting his sides and aft, and steer the globs into him.

Ilwrath: You can pinpoint the computer's location, just pick him apart with the peashooter. Humans are a little tougher cause they use the planet, but it's still winnable.

VUX: Definitely Shofixti fodder. Just run away, stay back, and blast him.

Shofixti: Neither one can win...

Mmrnmhrm: Get close to the Y-form with the planet and by taking advantage of his poor maneuvarabilty, and then detonate. If he stays in X-form, use similar as against the VUX.

Slylandro: You're utterly screwed. He's much faster, even if you use the planet.

Pkunk: Detonate and hope he doesn't reincarnate.

Kohr-Ah: The stupid computer saves no fuel for the FRIED! Dodge the blades, run aruond shooting the stupid computer, and detonate.   Against a human, you can try to fake him out, but the shofixti isn't quite fast enough to do this.

Supox: Run in and use the glory device.

Umgah: Fly in a circle, shoot his sides you're at an angle. A human player will probably zip - you know what to do if this happens.

Spathi: Gravity whip around the planet, go in with guns blazing and self-destruct.

Utwig: Run in and explode. His shield can't block it.

Syreen: Go in and use the glory device.

Zot-Foq-Pik: Use the gravity whip to get close, then let him have it!

Yehat: Run in and self-destruct.

Thraddash: It's possible but tricky to win with the peashooter. I reccomend the glory device.

Melnorme: It can't maneuver well. Flank him, take a few shots, and use your big bomb.


Just out of curiosity, how balanced do you guys think melee is? Some ships are certainly better than others, but that's intentional. Personally I really think that this is the best-balanced game I've ever played. No ship is clearly the best, and all of them are useful to some extent (except the Umgah IMO, but there are some who argue that even the Drone is decent).



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: bigfoot256 on October 21, 2003, 08:33:20 am
Hey, the Umgah Drone can be quite good if used properly. At least, that's what I've found...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 22, 2003, 11:16:45 pm
Use my Drone Tactics, you'll fare better than usual I'd wager...Butt-Slamming is one of the most enjoyable things with the Umgah.

This isn't UQM, but SC1. I was playing Hierarchy in the Escalation scenario. I (naturally) used the Precursor cheat, and went scouting with my Drone. Here's how he wound up...
4 Crew Pods (36 total crew max)
3 Turning Jets
4 Engine Boosters
2 Dynamos (dont do much for Umgah, but hey, its bragging rights)
2 Fuel Tanks (42 max batt)

I was eating Broodhomes and crapping Terminators. My Drone was more powerful than your average Dreadnought! Good ol' Chez'ef', now my favorite Umgah name.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Spurk on October 22, 2003, 11:32:26 pm
Quote
This isn't UQM, but SC1. I was playing Hierarchy in the Escalation scenario. I (naturally) used the Precursor cheat, and went scouting with my Drone.

Wait, Precursor cheat? What is it? How does it work?


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Culture20 on October 23, 2003, 12:43:55 am
Quote

Wait, Precursor cheat? What is it? How does it work?
According to PNF, it's only in the sega genesis version:
http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/faq/#47


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 23, 2003, 05:22:11 am
For those of you too motivationally challenged to click links, all you do is, right before you choose a Full Game scenario to go into, hold the left key and hit start. You'll hear the "thud" confirming your selection, and another "thud" instantly afterwards. It makes about 80% of the planets contain Precursor relics, but they're obviously open to both teams.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on November 04, 2003, 12:43:22 am
They're half the race they used to be.  They're disky, they're afraid of vowels like the plague, they're the...

Mmrnmhrm Transformer

+: Dual modes present multiple ways of tackling opponents, all ship +'s and -'s dealing with engines, turning, and batt regen are related to the form it's in. Excellent R.O.F. in Y-Form.

-:Low crew, small battery.

General Tactics/Notes:

-It takes TWO: USE both forms, you cannot win some fights without both used in conjunction with one another.

-Swoop: Use the Y-Form's excellent speed and acceleration to get moving toward your opponent, then switch back to X-Form. Your excellent turning and better regeneration will allow the X to cut a good swath in most opponents. When Swooping on ships, aim the Y-Form to where the ship will BE, not to where it's at. If you time it right, you can switch to X, be there when your opponent gets there, give them a severe hosing as you sail past, punch (hah) the X's engines and give them ANOTHER hosing.

-Strafe: Use the X-Form's excellent turning rate to face your opponent when conducting a Y-Form missile barrage. If your missiles are having problems hitting, switch to X, turn to face, switch to Y, and continue harassing.

-Circle Strafe: The Bigship killer. Staying in Y-Form, use your poor turning to your advantage. Keep a loose holding pattern around your opponent, all the while pelting him with Torpedoes. The slow turn prevents you from accidentally closing on most ships, and allows you to pick them apart with impunity.

-Angular Firing: Remember: The Y-Form's missiles do not come directly from the nose of the ship: they're fired at about 30 degree angles from the starboard/port of the ship. Remember this when using Far Strafe.

-Post-Mortem: After a fight, switch to Y-Form ASAP and get moving. This will let you be ready to set up a Swoop or Flyby should the need arise.

-Flyby: Using Y-Form, start in one direction and stay going that way, plinking off missiles all the while. It's painfully slow, but you'll eventually wear your opponent down. If they get wise to your tricks...

-Reverse!: Going to get caught whilst in Y-Form? Quickly switch to X-Form and hit your engines. You'll slow down drastically, and will be able to turn away from your foe, so once you've got a full battery again, switch and flee.

-Laser Camper: Camp the planet. If your opponent approaches, drill them with Twin Lasers, or try to get them too close so they bash into the planet. If you're worried about them (a big ship, usually), switch to Y and jet.  
(I used to have an evil trick with SC1 for this ship. Get 2 Dynamos and a Fuel Tank or Two. Doing this, you wait for your opponent to come at you, switch to Y and scoot, but quickly switch back to X to come full about at your opponent, switch back to Y and run them into the planet.)

Specialized Tactics:

-Avatar: Ugh. Either stay in X, get sucked in, get your pounding in, die, and move on, or, if they've lost 2 or all ZapSats, try Y. Y's engines are strong enough to keep from the Tractor, but don't get lazy in turning. Your half-progeny is pretty hard to kill.

-Avenger: Staying in X, you can be caught by the Avenger. You've got slightly longer range than it, so start dealing out damage before you start taking it. If you're REALLY patient, switch to Y and start dumbfiring Torpedoes. You'll get lucky shots eventually, and it will slowly die.

-Blade: Get going in Y form and picking them with Torpedoes. If your opponent is a chaser, and not that good with the Blade, switch to X and quickly 180 for a Twin Laser strike. Most will forget the Omnidirectional piloting and turn to escape, letting you score a hit or 3 on them. Don't stay, however, in X-Form, as you will be picking seeds out of your teeth.

-Broodhome: Keeping away from DOGIs can be a chore. Try Swooping in on the Broodhome right after it's released a DOGI, which keeps you from taking too much Ak-Ak in the process. When running from the DOGIs, keep picking away with Torpedoes. Circle Strafing will spell the Broodhome's end.

-Cruiser: If you're not already, switch to Y to dodge the Nukes that will be incoming. Swoop past the Crusier, and quickly stop. The acceleration of the Crusier is so poor that it will continue to drift into your already cooking Twin Lasers. You might take a few PDL shots in the process, so stick to Y and Circle Strafe if you're low on crew.

-Dreadnought: Cakewalk, actually. Circle Strafing will eventually wear down the Dread, but make sure to steer clear of the Fighters they will undoubtedly unleash upon you. Don't bother with X-Form to kill them, just run. Once the Dread stops sending fighters, you can Swoop if you're feeling brave (I do it all the time for flair points  ) or continue Circle Strafing.

-Drone: Circle Strafe. The *blip*ers of the group can only do so for so long...once your opponent has run out of batteries, continue Circle Strafing. If you get Butt-Slammed, switch to X-Form and engage engines to bring yourself to a quick stop. Switch back to Y and continue Circling.

-Eluder: Sticking to Y for evasion, move toward your opponent. (Yes, for once, CHASE the Eluder). Your engines are more powerful than theirs, and eventually you'll catch up with them. Once you're within range, switch to X and flash-fire your Twins. The Eluder will run, granted, but you'll get a good hit in. Just repeat.

-Fury: Ugh. Go to Y-Form to hit top speed, then switch to X-Form and drift. The Fury has to get close to hit you, well within your range. You may (probably) will get cut up pretty bad by the guns, but the Twin Lasers can block quite a bit of flak from the Fury. Kill it, and if it ressurects, kill it again.

-Guardian: Ugh. You will get Blazed if you stay in Y-Form, so get a head of steam up in Y, then switch back to X and drift. If they Blaze at you, give 'em hell with the Twins. If they're a Spittlebug, you'll have to cook the bubbles and get close. The Guardian can, however, outrun you.

-Intruder: Get and stay in Y-Form. Get away from Gigawatt death ASAP and Circle Strafe the VUX senseless. Avoid the Limpets like the plague, as you'll get trashed if even one connects.

-Jugger: Stay at range, Circle Strafing, but make your aim off on purpose to wear down their shielding. Once it's gone, get accurate. Beware the Jugger IS fast, and may catch you on a wraparound. Don't let it.

-Marauder: Ugh. If you're fighting the computer, send two sets of Torpedoes to burn off the FRIEDs while you are approaching the Marauder. Switch to X when close enough and Swoop past. Repeat, if you can manage to stay out of the Shuriken rain you're more than likely catching.

-Mauler: Stay in X-Form. Let yourself be lined up with, and simply juke when Shells start raining on your parade. The Mauler will probably go sailing due to recoil, and you meet them coming, Twin Lasers ready. In Y-Form, it seems far too easy for the Mauler to line up shots on you, so stay slow.

-Nemesis: Ugh. Stay in Y-Form to keep the Marines at distance. When you get the chance, Swoop, but beware, as you're liable to catch a few shots from the Howitzer. If you really need to kill Marines, get going in Y, switch to X and slow down to their speed, or just slightly slower. When they get close, present them to the Twins.

-Penetrator: Stay in Y-Form, to keep your crew yours. Circle Strafing is difficult here, as the Penetrator is relatively quick. If you're feeling mean, lure the Penetrator into a chase. The Y-Form, when going directly forward, isn't affected by a gravity whip too much, letting your opponent think they can catch up. When they are, switch to X-Form, whip around, and tag 'em.

-Podship: Y-Form to escape and harass, X-Form for Swoops. If you're feeling like you're aim is good, run the Podship's own Plasmoids into them. If you need to, use X-Form to cook the Plasmoids down, but I usually simply outrun them.

-Probe: (I would've had an easier time if KEYJAMMING wasn't an issue. Apparently, when playing a Transformer, if you are firing and you turn LEFT, you will STOP FIRING. This caused me many missed shots and deaths. Hope it's resolved in the future.) Get moving as Y-Form, or get a grav-whip as X, and stay in X-Form. The Probe has slightly better range than you, but the shots take a second to reach you, so hammer your foe when they get too close. Y-Form = Lightning Rod.

-Scout: Keep in Y-Form to avoid premature death due to the Kamikaze. Dance around the edges of the screen, or don't let your opponent wraparound, and keep pelting away with Torpedoes.

-Skiff: Get going in Y-Form, drift in X-Form. The Skiff has to close to shoot, and your range is significantly greater than theirs. When they're close enough, let 'em have it. Teleportation gets pretty annoying, but eventually you'll hold out. If you stay in Y-Form, you're going to get flanked and smoked.

-Stinger: Mwah. Stay in X-Form, and when your buddy tries to tongue you, let 'em have it. If they're a strafer with the Gatling Gun, switch to Y-Form to pester them with Torpedoes, then switch to X-Form and drift when they get themselves in range.

-Terminator: Ugh. You're probably going to wind up Twin Cannon fodder, so stick to Y-Form and hope that your opponent misses their shielding from time to time. Otherwise, this is a losing battle for you.

-Torch: Switch to Y-Form, and try to meet the Torch head-on. Once on collision course, switch again to X-Form and fry the Torch as it rockets past. Don't follow them, lest you wish to suck heavy Afterburner.

-Trader: Per par, avoid the Screwer-Upper. Swooping is highly recommended here, as well as Circle Strafing. Watch out for greengunners, though. If your opponent Greenguns, get close with the X-Form and hose 'em.

-Transformer: Whee! What's usually going to happen is that you and your opponent will both go into X-Form and slug each other into submission. Y-Form races are fun, but slow to fight.

Well, there's the Mmrnmhrm. Wonder who's next?


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Shiver on February 07, 2004, 11:00:44 pm
I am saddened that I never found this thread and put up an Orz strat guide while I had the chance.

Quote
Had a hard time believing no one did this one from the start, but here goes. The ship I love to hate...


I resent that.
 
Quote
Orz Nemesis  
 
+: Decent crew/battery, decent primary weapon range, turreted weapon allows for angled shots/strafing, turns well, autonomous attackers.  
-: Moderate engine, primary weapon drains energy quickly, medicore energy regeneration.  
 
General Tactics/Notes  
 
-*GO! GO! GO!*: Be careful with your Marines. They may pack a punch, but release too many, and you'll only be able to absorb light damage before you bite the dust. On the flip-side of this, Marines themselves can take up to three points of damage before dying, know how to grav-whip, and don't need to return to the Nemesis like Dreadnought Fighters. If you're being chased and know you're going to get hit with something painful (Fusion Bolt, Photon Crystal), drop a Marine. It will die, yes, but it will soak up the entire shot. Better to lose one than six. Also take note that when a Marine enters a ship, it instantly kills one crew.  
 
-Now or Later?: Dropping Marines at the start of the fight makes them Harassers; pestering the opponent into evasive manuvers and setting them up for your Howitzer. Marines dropped at close range are Invaders; those that will most likely get into the ship for damaging purposes. All Marines obviously have the potential to be Invaders, but agasint faster ships, they will likely be Harassers if they don't get into the ship right away.


So far so good.
 
Quote
-Terror of Turrets: Your flanking abilities in this ship are only outdone by the Skiff and the Probe. Crank the turret to a 90 degree angle, pop a few shots on the fly-by, then turn around, readjust the turret to front, and flank away.


I dislike using the turret on the sides because the angle the wings are at make it very difficult to aim well, which is a travesty since you need to make every shell count. I usually just stick to front or back.
 
Quote
-Sniper?: Know the range of your Howitzer. It's good, but it's not a true sniper. It will outrange most, though, so use this to your advantage. It also, at full fuel, can only fire 3 sucessive shots in a row, so be accurate.


Indeed.
 
Quote
-Between a Rock and a Killer: Box your opponent between you and the planet when you've got Marines about. They'll have to decide: Attempt a grav-whip, leaving them vulnerable to the gun? Try to kill the Marine, also distracting them from you? Or just soak up the Marine and get it over with?


I don't actually understand this one at all.
 
Quote
-Different Damage: It's been said before, and it seems to be true: Marines kill different races faster than others. Humans, Syreen, Umgah, Orz (yes, themselves) and both Ur-Quan (of all the races!) drop like flies (av. 6-10) when being attacked by Marines, while Chenjesu, Mmrnhrmn, Chmmr, and Mycon can beat them back with only minor losses (av 1-4). Other races (Thraddash, Supox, Ilwrath, Utwig) sustain average damage from Marines (around 4-6).

 
You guys already went over this, so...

Quote
Specialized Tactics:  
 
-Avatar: Mwah. You can stay away from the Tractor for a good while, but eventually it will catch you. When it's getting close, turn about 30 degrees and keep going. This usually screws up the Tractor and the person will disengage and turn to face you again. When this happens, Turret to 180 and Howitzer the living daylights out of the Avatar. It's just a matter of time before it dies. Marines only after it's lost a ZapSat or two.  
 
-Avenger: Don't bother with Marines, they'll just come running back or possibly get cooked. Do some rangefinding, and once you've got a fix, keep firing. It can't catch you.  
 
-Blade: At the beginning of the fight, send one Harasser after the Blade. This will keep it occupied while you box/flank it and Howitzer away. If it kills the Marine, send another, but don't do this more than 3 times, as it seems wasteful if the person is that good a shot. Try to Rock-and-a-Killer it, that seems to work.  
 
-Broodhome: Send 4 Invaders to *dance* with the Broodhome, no more than this though. Ak-Ak will wreak havoc if you get big groups of Marines sent. Avoid DOGI's; actually, they're really easy to kill. DOGI's only avoid the front of a ship (where the gun USUALLY is.) Turret to face them and blast 'em.  
 
-Crusier: Send 3 Invaders to force the Crusier into a gravity well. Once there, Howitzer and let the Marines finish the job.  
 
-Dreadnought: Stay the wrath of your Marines; deal with the Fighters first. Try guiding them into asteroids, or get them all in a line and send a Howitzer shot through the lot of them. Once the Dreadnought stops sending Fighters, it's your turn. By this time the Dread will be quite weak, so 2 or 3 Marines should do the job. If you're feeling mean and like to think of things in a homicidal-poetic sense, send about 8 Marines and watch the Dreadnought "hatch like an green egg with a blossom of violent parasites" when it dies.  (Yea, I'm partially sadistic.)  
 
-Drone: Beware the Cone, your Marines cannot withstand such punisment. Get behind them and THEN send Invaders. Harassers are not recommended as they will more than likely get hosed by the Cone. If they even think about Reversing into you, drop a Marine to change their minds.  
 
-Eluder: Unless you are at point-blank range, all Marines will be Harassers in this case. Send about 3 to harass, then box and Howitzer. If you get close, drop an Invader for help. You can stay out of the range of the Punt Guns, but the BUTT's range will prove lethal if you're not careful.  
 
-Fury: Pesty thing, all Marines are going to be Harassers again, and they unfortunately die quite quickly to a Death Blossom. Wait for the Fury to get within range (it has to), and try a Howitzer spread. One at an left angle, one directly on, one at a right angle. When it jukes, you might get lucky.  
 
-Guardian: Marines are ill-advised here; the Blazer will comet their fishy guts all over the cosmos. Go for the planet and take a whip to keep away from the Blazer, taking pot-shots all the while. A good time to drop a Marine or three is when the Blazer is just about to run out of energy (2 or 3 points). Send a Marine then. About the time the two converge, the Blazer will run out of gas, leaving it vulnerable. If it's a spittlebug, the Howitzer will blow through bubbles about 45% of the time if it's a big cloud, so keep shooting.

-Intruder: Get away from the Laser and move to flank. Once you've flanked him, Marines-ho! 4 usually do the trick for me. Stay away from Limpets, too, as they cause problems for thrust (turning doesn't matter as much due to the Turret.)

-Jugger: The Shield will keep Marines busy, but they can't hold it up forever. Try to get a flank (easier said than done) and send one or two their way. If they shield, the Marines bounce, but they still lose energy. You can also play with human opponents by swiveling the turret around JUST before you fire when you're aimed at them, thus making them think they're going to be hit and wasting precious fuel.

-Marauder: Howitzer twice to burn off FRIEDs (vs. computer), or get close enough to where a human thinks a FRIED will connect. Once they're low on gas, Invaders, around 5, and a Howitzer headache will spell the end. Beware Shurikens, as they eat Marines quite handily.

-Mauler: Mwah. Send 2 Harassers to start the recoil process, then get in their flight path and drop a third. They sail across the screen and catch a Marine! As for a direct firefight, you're the one to be on their toes. Your Howitzer is no match for the Artillery they've got, so try to get close (or catch them on the wraparound) and blast away.

-Nemesis: Eheh, this is a hard fight, actually. Send one (1) Marine only to Harass(and possibly Invade) the Nemesis. Once you've got them busy (and no doubt you'll be busy fending off Marines as well), gravity whip away from them and give 'em hell. Once your buddy stops sending Marines, if you've still got enough crew left, send some yourself. It's all about skill, here.

-Penetrator: GET AWAY! Each crewmen sucked out is a potential 6-10 kills! Gravity whip to keep distance, and spew Marines. I will purposely go overboard with them to keep the Penetrator at bay, usually around 6.

-Podship: This thing is a pain. Flee from the Plasmoids, although they will catch you eventually, fire 3 into the Podship, and start sending Marines. The player will have to choose; potentially kill the Marines with Plasmoids, or regenerate while the Marines are in the ship? Neither option is good. Make them decide multiple times.  

-Probe: Good Probers can zappify the Marines with impunity, so don't bother if you know your opponent knows how to handle the ship. Orbit the planet (careful not to get knocked by the Probe) and let 'em have it once they get close.

-Scout: 2 shots. Gravity whip away. No Marines. 'nuff said.

-Skiff: Play hell with them by dropping 2 Harassers just to piss them off. Forcing the decision between teleporting or shooting isn't one many people will take on the side of shooting, so make sure the planet is in view and hope for that 1%! While they're in range and not being too harassed by Marines, Howitzer to harass them yourself.

-Stinger: Rotate 180 and Howitzer while running. Marines aren't worth it here, but if you're feeling like a game of overkill, go ahead.

-Terminator: You can outrun him, so crank that Howitzer 180 and start shelling. Marines usually get chewed up by Quad Cannons, so user beware. An evil trick is to Howitzer your three to lower their batteries, then send a Marine to get in while their shield/Cannons are out. Just keep pounding and you'll eventually win.

-Torch: Sit still, wait for it, and blast it to bits with your Howitzer. No Marines here, as they are apt to suck Afterburner in the worst kind of way.

-Trader: Screwer-Upper is your enemy here, as it will null both Marines AND Turreting. If they've got a charge held up, keep away and no Marines. If they're Greengunning, send Marines, as the Trader can't escape them. 3 to weaken it (sometimes destroy it, I guess) and then a brief shower of Howitzer to finish it off.

-Transformer: vs. X-Form: Keep your distance from those Dual Lasers. Marines, once inside the arc of the Lasers, have no trouble getting in, but they may get cut down passing through. vs. Y-Form: Send one or two Harassers to keep them busy while you get into their flight line and Howitzer them senseless. If you can manage to bump the Y-Form, it may give your Harassers a chance to become Invaders.

There it is. I'm going to do Thraddash next, so if anyone else wants it, do it now. Think I'll modify the Guardian one to include General Tactics/Notes too.


The specialized strategies are very good, though they seem to be geared towards fighting the computer. The Dreadnought fight in particular stands out like this.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on February 10, 2004, 12:55:35 am
Quote
I resent that.

Tough. I'm an Androsynth, what'd you expect? Warm, fuzzy lauding of a magestic craft?

Rock and a Killer:
Quote
I don't actually understand this one at all.

Drop Marines to harass, then intercept your opponent as they flee. Try to herd them toward the planet, so they have to do some snap decision making, giving a chance to fire, drop another Marine, etc.

ADD: Errps...
As for the fights being geared toward the computer, they aren't. The player in question enjoyed torturing me with all craft that had autonomous crew abilities. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on April 14, 2004, 03:11:46 pm
Resurrecting this thread and bumping it up - I think it'd be relevant for a lot of people to read.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: mshieh on April 28, 2004, 05:42:27 pm
I haven't played this game much since 1995, and I can't get uqm to install, but I figure I'd update this guide.

Zot-Foq-Pik Strategy Guide
=======================
This guide is for computer in awesome.  This guide assumes that you have only Zot-Foq-Pik available for combat, but that you may have more than one, since they are so cheap.

"Basically a weak light ship with good short-range weapons, but again they're short range weapons which makes you an easy target."

An important thing to note about the spray gun is that it is one of the few weapons that can get around the discrete rotation issues.  Most ships can only line up a shot at 16 angles, but the Zoq-Fot-Pik spray can still hit even if you're in between.  I also consider the spray gun a medium range weapon.  It outranges quite a few guns in the game (Chmmr, X-form, VUX, Arilou).  It is also significantly more powerful than the various peashooters that outrange it (Shofixti, Thraddash, Spathi)

Your most effective tactic is a gravity whip/tongue combo.  Some ships you want to ram and stop thrusting, so you bounce away, usually back towards the safety of the planet.  The planet can be used simply to hide, or for a second gravity whip to escape.  Others you want to strafe past, so that your momentum is preserved, carrying you to safety.

"Ur-Quan: Difficult fight.  Stay away from the main ship and swat fighters.  The spray gun works quite well for that.  Then use the tongue to finish."

Computer will launch fighters down to about 12.  Then, hang around near the planet and wait for an opening to lick them.  If the computer has to deal with a planet, it will be forced to face forward as it gravity whips.  This is your best chance to broadside it with your tongue, even if has plenty of crew.

"Orz: Difficult fight.  Same thing as the Ur-Quan basically.  Use the spray-gun to finish."

The Orz's weakness is a slow regeneration rate.  Wait until there are no marines deployed.  Line up to the east or west side of the Orz and try to make it waste ammo.  Then go in for a spray gun shot or a tongue while it is reloading.

"Chmmr: Difficult to Impossible fight.  Circle the ship and use the spray gun, keeping away from the zapsats and the main gun.  One mistake will end it."

Give up.  It's not worth the hassle to try to win a prolonged battle with a single Zoq-Fot-Pik.  Instead, make a kamikaze run and tongue a zapsat.  If you don't collide with the Chmmr itself, you will sometimes live long enough to make a second kamikaze run.  After 2 successful kamikaze runs (which may mean that you are on your 3rd or 4th Zoq-Fot-Pik), just spray gun the Chmmr until it folds.  You can stay at the edge of the spray gun range, and if you start getting tractored, you can run the Chmmr out of power.  A Chmmr will take me anywhere from 2 to 4 Zoq-Fot-Piks to kill, but even if it took 5 I'd still come out even.  I think my record is losing with a heavily wounded Zoq-Fot-Pik but taking out a zapsat, and winning with my second.

"Mycon: Moderate fight.  Avoid the plasma, come in, tongue, shoot away, lead the plasma into the ship."

Alternatively, just broadside a moving Mycon and shoot.  A Mycon can't hit something to its side, unless it fires a shot the long way around.

"Earthling: Moderate fight.  Avoid the missiles, come in and go."

/nods  Don't bother trying to lick one unless you have it down to 12 crew.

"Ilwrath: Moderate fight.  Stick back and use the spray gun."

I'd rate this easy.  You can outrun and outrange an Ilwrath.  The biggest danger here is if the Ilwrath can manage a speed boost off of the planet, or if you get very unlucky with an asteroid.

"Chenjesu: Impossible fight.  Get in close, either use the spray gun or tongue, get your shot in and move on."

Chenjesu has a slow reload rate.  Get it to waste some ammo on you during the approach, and you'll be able to either tongue it and get away relatively unscathed, or just fly by and spray.  You can try to lick a dogi, but if you miss you'll have to back off and spray it.  If you can convince the Chenjesu to move at a decent rate, you can usually gravity whip, tongue, and bounce away to safety before you take too much damage.

"VUX: Difficult fight.  Use your spray gun and fire away.  Very close quarters fight, one mistake could end it."

I don't remember this one being too hard, especially if you're willing to accept a couple limpets.  It's been a long time.  Just circle around a moving VUX until you can strafe it with your spray gun, which outranges the VUX laser.  You want to be in front of it if you can, to the side if not.  repeat.  Alternatively, I think the VUX is a small ship.  Just gravity whip/tongue it if you have to, since the laser won't kill you in time if you come at it fast.

"Arilou: Impossible fight.  Basically hard to hit this guy.  You might get a lucky tongue hit, but in truth you'll get wiped out."

I don't really know what I'd do vs. a human here.  I run and try to get the Arilou to chase me.  Then, I coast, spin around, and spray gun it.  If an asteroid hits you at this point, you're in big trouble.  It usually works, and if it doesn't, keep enough ready for a tongue.  Moderate if you keep it out of range, Difficult to tongue.

"Shofixti: Difficult to Impossible fight.  You can spar with this guy pretty well - stay back though.  If he decides to use the Glory Device and you get close enough, you're done though."

If he Glory Devices on you, you're only down 1 point anyway.  (5 vs. 6 point ships)  Just approach from a little off east/west, then shift into the line of fire and cancel your approach once you're in range.  Your gun is better than his, so trade blows.

"Mmrnmhrm: Difficult fight.  Approach this ship in X-form and use the spray gun and dance around it.  If it switches to Y-form, stand there and shoot away."

This one isn't bad.  The X-form has no range and no acceleration.  You can hang around outside of its range and just shoot it to pieces.  The Y range has weapons that are pretty much impossible to aim at a moving target, and you can avoid being in front of it due to the horrible turning radius.  Hang out near a planet and try to gravity whip into a tongue.

"Slylandro: Impossible fight.  Too fast and blocks most of the shots from your spray gun anyway."

This one is closer to moderate.  Gravity whip/tongue, then try to bounce off of it back into the gravity well to escape.  2nd lick should kill it, if I remember correctly, or you can try to finish with the scatter gun.  Slylandro only does moderate damage over time, so you should survive the first tongue.

"Pkunk: Difficult fight, chase, turn and fire the spray gun.  Patience is a virtue here.  If he resurrects, you'll likely be a goner."

I prefer gravity whip/tongue, but trying to dance around him with the spray gun isn't too bad.  The benefit of gravity whip/tongue is that if you have a good approach, the pkunk will die beore it can do much to you. If your approach isn't going to get you close enough, abort.

"Kohr-Ah: Difficult fight.  If you are good at avoiding the blades you can time it, whip around and tongue the ship - if you don't thrust, the blow will blow you back away from the ship."

What hurts like heck is the flame burst.  Get the Kohr-Ah to shoot enough blades that it can't burst, then run in and tongue it.  Make it shoot once more and you can repeat again quickly.  A good desperation measure from medium range or higher is to tongue a single incoming blade.  Dodging them is the highly recommended method, but if an asteroid whacks you, it's time to practice licking them.

"Druuge: Difficult to impossible fight.  Get him to fire, come back and either tongue or scatter gun him."

This one is easy!  Druuge weakness, as everyone knows, is reloading.  Line up a shot with the Druuge at long range.  Know exactly which shot the Druuge is trying to line up.  Dodge shots until the Druuge is either out of ammo or careening out of control.  In the first case, run up to it and tongue it, keeping an eye out for the Druuge to sacrifice life to repeat the process.  In the second, get in front of its flight path and get ready to tongue.

"Supox: Difficult fight.  Dogfight with the scatter gun.  Very easy to get the tongue in too if the Supox makes a big mistake."

This is easy!  The Supox has 12 health.  Get near a planet and one-shot it with a gravity whip/tongue.  If you miss, run like heck!

"Umgah: Difficult fight.  Try to shoot around the cone with the scatter gun.  In truth though a very long fight in doing that."

I honestly don't remember what I did with these.  If you mess aroudn with an Umgah long enough near a planet, it usually reverses right into it.  Otherwise, you can usually get a few shots in as it swings past the planet itself.

"Spathi: Difficult to Impossible fight.  If you avoid the BUTTs you can shoot him down and beat him with the scatter gun - in truth though it's a pain and he'll likely outlast you."

Get the Spathi to run at you.  It can shoot 5 times on a full power bar.  Have it shoot at you, and empty your spray gun into it.  If you dodged well, you should hit a couple times and it should miss with all shots.  If you didn't dodge so well, you probably hit more than a couple times.  Repeat.  The key is knowing that your gun has twice the damage potential per volley than the Spathi's forward gun, in addition to a higher tolerance for aiming.  Occasionally, the Spathi can't figure out which way to turn in order to run away.  In this case, tongue it as you fly past each other.  This is preferred because regardless of the outcome, it happens sooner.

"Utwig: Impossible fight.  Try to come in fast and tongue him - maybe you'll catch him when he's of the mind of firing on you instead of shielding."

Here, the inaccuracy of your gun is a boon.  Fire a shot at it.  If you're fortunate, it will raise shields to defend.  The Utwig is much more likely to lose power than it is to gain power, due to the low damage of the gun, combined with the low accuracy.  Repeat until it is out of power, then take potshots from extreme range.

"Syreen: Difficult fight.  Can pick off your crew very easily, but you can scatter gun/tongue this ship easily if you are on the ball."

Try to fight it peashooter vs. scatter gun.  Once both of you are moderately wounded, go in for a tongue and try to pick up your crew afterwards.

"Zot-Foq-Pik: Moderate fight.  Basically a big dogfight - he with the skillz wins."

There are no tactics here.  Just shoot your scatter gun and hope for the best.  The computer has better aim out in the open, but you're probably better near a planet.  Try to pick your fight near there.

"Yehat: Impossible fight if their reactions with the shield is good.  Get in front of the guns you're done.  Usually I like to just charge this guy and hope I can get the tongue in before I go down."

Run away from the Yehat and make it chase you.  Decelerate and acccelerate until you have matched it's speed and are within gun range.  Take potshots (or just hold down fire for extended periods of time) until the Yehat dies or you have to dodge an asteroid.

"Thraddash: Moderate fight.  As long as you're careful about avoiding the shots and the afterburner fire, you can use the scatter gun or tongue to take this guy down rather easily."

This is like trying to catch a pet cat (or a Spathi).  Don't make any threatening motions and approach it slowly.  Your goal is to make it fight you face to face, much like the Spathi fight.  Your gun is bigger than his peashooter, so just duke it out.

"Melnorme: Difficult fight.  One hit you're done (greengun or charged).  He steers so boxy that you can tongue him rather easily, stay away from the main gun or you're done."

Fake out the main gun and then charge.  You'll be assaulted with a flurry of uncharged guns, most of which should miss.  Stay at close range and you should be able to kill it first.  Like the Kohr-Ah, you can tongue incoming charged shots if desperate, but this defense is even more difficult.

"Androsynth: Difficult to Impossible.  If he bubbles you, just charge in and try to tongue him (time it to bounce out).  If he comets you try to turn and give him the tongue."

This isn't difficult at all.  Don't get suckered in.  Wait for the Androsynth to get anywhere a planet, and gravity whip in front of its path.  Two things should happen.  First, your scatter gun should do a little bit of damage.  Second, he should enter blazer form and chase after you in a futile effort.  Get back near a planet if you can, so you can perform a second gravity whip.  Coasting is usually safe, unless it tries to get you the long way around or you hit an unlucky asteroid.  Keep a close eye on the Androsynth power, and charge it just as power is getting low.  An Androsynth with no power is helpless.  It might get to launch a single bubble before it dies.  Don't stand in front of it, or you might get hit with the blazer.  It doesn't have the power to sustain blazer form for more than half  a second, but that will be enough if you park yourself right in front of the business end.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Fsi-Dib on May 07, 2004, 11:08:04 pm
My brother uses this extremely annoying "Mycon tactic", which is to run away, never coming into your direction. Most of those tips don't help at this situation.

Especially Kohr-Ah is a true pain in the ass. The only ship capable of destroying a defensive Kohr-Ah is ... uuh... Utwig. But as Utwig comes closer, he retreats.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Dalrok on May 08, 2004, 05:49:47 am
To defeat Kohr-Ah, try...

Androsynth. If you're good at getting stuck with blazer, then try this one. The tactic is to avoid getting fried and trying to get stuck on the side of Kohr-Ah.

Chenjesu. Crystals destroy Marauder's killers. Due to poor maneuverablity of Chenjesu ship this is a hard match, but avoid getting fried!

Chmmr. Run away from Kohr-Ah, use tractor beam to give Kohr-Ah slightly faster speed than you and force him to follow you. If Kohr-Ah comes directly towards you with small speed difference, fried will not work well. If Kohr-Ah uses gravity whip, use tractor to stop him and continnue to do as written before. Chmmr should be victorious and lose only about 35-50% of his crew even if Kohr-Ah pilot knows what he's doing.

Melnorme: If you're a skilled marksman, use confusion so Kohr-Ah cannot shield against the red bolt. Whatever you do, do not get close to Kohr-Ah, because fried will eat the red even if you don't shoot it. Stay in distance and shield against killers with red.

Slylandro. If you're good pilot, these things work surprisingly well.

Umgah. If you're good at using these ships, they can really surprise Kohr-Ah and burn more than half of their crew.

Yehat. Very difficult match, but if both run out of battery, Yehat has the upper hand.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on May 10, 2004, 09:33:31 pm
I can't believe you neglected the Spathi in that list!

Supox can also do good, but a human Kohr-Ah player who knows the limitations of the Supox can mitigate its strengths.

But in general, yeah, a camping Kohr-Ah is very annoying.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Dalrok on May 11, 2004, 04:50:41 am
Spathi's banned in the melee game group I play in, and choosing Traddash or Utwig is highly frowned upon. I agree it might not make sense if we speak of balance, but we don't want to be spend hours with a Yehat vs. Spathi match.

Also, a human Kohr-Ah should be able to take a human Spathi. Kohr-Ah can defend against the butt missiles with fried or killers and Spathi has hard time getting close enough without getting hit.

Kohr-Ah isn't overpowerful. I'd say Avatar is better use for 30 points, but that's after you learn to use the tractor beam really well.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: mshieh on May 22, 2004, 04:46:13 am
Quote
My brother uses this extremely annoying "Mycon tactic", which is to run away, never coming into your direction. Most of those tips don't help at this situation.


You just need to smack your brother at this point.  When using this tactic, he can't kill you either.  You can drag quite a few fights in the game to a stalemate by just running away constantly.  You either have to ban the tactic, or ban the ship.  I could pick Arilou or Slylandro vs. Chmmr (pretty unwinnable battles) and last hours, but that doesn't mean a thing.  Generally, if no damage happens in a couple of minutes, one side is just being annoying and avoiding the conclusion of an unwinnable battle.  If the Mycon is injured and trying to heal, then this is of course an exception.

Mycon is a fairly slow ship though, you should be able to gravity whip into its path and then chase it down.  In the case of Mycon, you could always charge up a red Melnorme shot, chase down the Mycon, and ram the Mycon with it after using it as a shield.  Unless you know how to kill a Mycon in a single pass, then you'll have to pick something that can outmaneuver it.  Personally, I've found the Mycon to be an easy target for most ships though, so I'm not sure exactly what you mean.  It's only the particularly mobile ships that can extend a fight indefinitely.

Quote
Especially Kohr-Ah is a true pain in the ass. The only ship capable of destroying a defensive Kohr-Ah is ... uuh... Utwig. But as Utwig comes closer, he retreats.


It's damn hard for a Kohr-Ah to retreat.  Generally, it hunkers down behind a screen of saws, and doesn't move except to ensure that the saws stay between it and its opponent.  Utwig and Kohr-Ah strategies are probably pretty obvious, so I'll skip those.  A healthy Chmmr can usually just barrel through the special and kill it, if it can get enough tractor momentup to bring it into range without too much damage before the Kohr-Ah special.  A Chenjesu can use the primary gun to shoot down incoming saws, and then fight from long to extreme range.  I've had some luck fighting with an Orz at the Orz's max range.  Just swing the gun to the side, and take potshots.  Slylandro actually works here, if you can fake out the special attack or otherwise avoid strafing into several hits of it.  Melnorme can power up to red, use it as a shield, and then confuse it and land a shot.  Most other ships are out of luck, though most have a way of doing some damage on the way out.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Mr. Anderson on May 22, 2004, 04:57:29 pm
Quote
My brother uses this extremely annoying "Mycon tactic", which is to run away, never coming into your direction. Most of those tips don't help at this situation.

Especially Kohr-Ah is a true pain in the ass. The only ship capable of destroying a defensive Kohr-Ah is ... uuh... Utwig. But as Utwig comes closer, he retreats.


In these both cases, use Chenjesu. U can destroy Mycon even if it retreats and Chenjesu has more firepower than Kohr-Ah. If Kohr-Ah plays defensive, just destroy him.  


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Thraddash Maniac on July 18, 2004, 03:26:13 am
i'm kinda a n00b to UQM so you'll have to bear with me on the whole 'lack of specific tactics' thing.

I personally very much like the torch. Whilst it is easily killed by say - an arilou,  it can do large amounts of damage to almost all other ships. I played the origional alot, and kicked ass with the arilou, so I'm used to dodging and the like. Basically other than the arilou and *oddly* the spathi I can take down any ship one on one using general hit and run tactics i.e. rush and then circle burn and run away, or flank and use the 'pea-shoota'. I've only had the game two days, but with a team of all torches [and maybe one nemesis for kicks] I can take out ANY of the premade teams on the highest cyborg level.

One quick question off topic guys - how do i enlarge the view window. I know there is a key code, but i'm not sure how i ACTUALLY use it or what it is. I'm on XP - if thats an issue.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: FalconMWC on July 18, 2004, 03:56:36 am
Just curious - Do you play with just a cyborg or a human?

As for the question, I believe that Defiant just answered that today in the tech section.
Quote
right click on your short cut

select properties

look at where it says "target"

you should see the command line like this

"C:\Program Files\The Ur-Quan Masters\uqm.exe"

to modify the resolution, pass this command after the quotes, like this

"C:\Program Files\The Ur-Quan Masters\uqm.exe"  -r800x600

you can change to whatever resolution you like as long as you keep the -r command

all examples are based on the default install location.

~DEFIANT





Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on July 20, 2004, 12:41:09 am
Personally, for a little bit of variation, i enjoy playing as the Vux intruder.

Kind of because the best method to kill anything is like slow torture (i only kill it when i can barely make out what ship it is (portrait) due to limpets =p)

Of course, i get creamed but anything that doesnt need to turn to fire.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: 976-KILL on August 10, 2004, 06:50:03 pm
I also use the VUX a bit, although only against human opponents who use heavily crewed ships. Limpet it till its all green as you said BUT don't kill it - let it kill you by moving yourself in front of it - THEN bring out a Syreen, move behind and steal ALL its crew - then finish it. This leaves you with a fully staffed syreen, which in the right hands is a VERY tough opponent.  ;D

Favourite ship still has to be the Androsynth though, although I have no intention of doing a write up since NECRO's strat guide basically covers everything I would say.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 10, 2004, 08:49:13 pm
Wow, thats positively Evil...I love it!

I think that's an ingenious use of game tactics that exemplifies just how good the Super-Melee really is...I can't think of many other games this much fun =p

The Syreen is an excellent ship for very fast moving, small opponents. Try it against Pkunk on awesome, youll see.

Mind you, the Chmmr still is the best ship imho to take out both Arilou, Zot Fot Pik, and Pkunk, and all the other pain in the ass ships. =p


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: 976-KILL on August 13, 2004, 06:48:14 pm
I once beat a Chmmr with an Arilou - although it was vs the computer. If you Go arilou, and just sit as close as possible to the planet, you can just wait, and it eventually hits the planet. Warp, Repeat If Desired.

One thing I noticed with Chmmrs, is that if a zapsat 'hits' the planet - It doesn't get wiped out of the orbit around the Avatar. It doesn't even take damage [none got destroyed over the course of the battle during which the Avatar hit several times, and hence it's Zap-sats hit several times], nor does the Avatar as a whole take damage if a zapsat hits  and the main ship doesn't - the zapsat just superimposes its image above the planet until the Avatar moves away. Is this a bug? Surely if a Zapsat hits a planet it should be knocked out of orbit or at least take damage - I mean a Dreadnought can be reversed in direction by a planet hit - so why can't a puny zapsat? If this did happen - It would give short range ships more chance if they could lure the Avatar near the planet, get the planet to wipe off its zapsats and THEN attack it.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 13, 2004, 09:01:43 pm
Never actually seen this...

My main issue with Chmmr is that the tractor beam doesnt work like real physics. BOTH ships should move towards eachother, relative to their mass, of course.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Chrispy on August 13, 2004, 09:27:33 pm
You can beat human chmmr players with an ariloo simply by running away. Eventually they will commit suicide.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Art on August 15, 2004, 02:46:47 pm
Quote
Never actually seen this...

My main issue with Chmmr is that the tractor beam doesnt work like real physics. BOTH ships should move towards eachother, relative to their mass, of course.


Though the solution to this is very simple; just figure out which direction the tractor beam's pulling you and have omnidirectional thrusters that push you in the opposite direction, and you will remain stationary relative to some third party (like the planet) while the other guy moves.

Or, since the Chmmr don't seem to have such engines on their ship but do have magic gravity-manipulating powers, just use the same magic force on the planet that you're using on the other guy's ship to push or pull yourself relative to the planet and cancel out your motion. Either way, if you cleverly apply forces you can easily make it so that you and the planet don't move while the other guy does (if you have that godlike sort of making-magic-forces power in the first place).

What's interesting is that much of SC2's combat engine only makes sense if you assume this kind of compensating happens all the time; for example, that the ships have a maximum velocity (relative to the planet) because the ships' computers purposely fire small retrorockets or somesuch to decelerate once they accelerate too close to this max velocity, because the safety standards for battle consider moving too fast relative to the planet unsafe, since tracking the planet's location is very important for whatever reason. (The idea of using the planet's gravity field to control the battle, limit the playing field, and so on might be very important in the SC2 universe and might explain why every single combat encounter must be fought near a planet.) Similarly the ships must always automatically fire thrusters to dampen recoil from the projectiles they release, except the Druuge Mauler which either consciously chooses to use its recoil velocity or else is just too cheap to install compensators.

And don't even get me started on inertial dampers that make asteroid collisions harmless. You can come up with a rationale for it -- like, say, it needs to track all masses ahead of time to be able to compensate for their inertia or whatever, so it works on asteroids but not shurikens -- but it's not going to be a *good* rationale. That whole phrasing was probably the most obvious reference to Star Trek handwaving in the manual and was a cute way to explain-by-not-explaining an unexplainable game element.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Art on August 15, 2004, 02:53:19 pm
Quote
You can beat human chmmr players with an ariloo simply by running away. Eventually they will commit suicide.


Yeah, and then they'll never play you again. Not wise to adopt such a blatantly cheesy and annoying stonewall strategy in a game that's currently designed for in-person play (though this sort of thing would soon become very common if UQM were playable over the 'Net).

This sort of thing only counts as winning the battle in the same rough sense that the "Smack him in the face and run his ship into the planet while he's distracted" strategy is.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: 976-KILL on August 15, 2004, 05:35:35 pm
I agree with Art.

If I play humans on Melee, continually running away is seen as morally wrong. Whats the point? Melee means 'fight' - not 'run away'


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 15, 2004, 06:11:05 pm
That's why spathi should be banned from human/human melee =p


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: 976-KILL on August 15, 2004, 06:34:30 pm
Sander - I could not agree more.  ;D


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Chrispy on August 16, 2004, 06:19:07 am
I see your point with the ariloo, my post was only pointing out the possibility. I do not agree with the spathi however. It is very possible to kill a spathi, I can do it fairly well with the orz. I guess I'm a bit more easily entertained then you guys.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 16, 2004, 08:23:27 pm
For every ship, there is a counter ship. But what happens if you just want to have fun? Its like using hacks in CS (not that ive ever considered playing that travesty). Its just the virtual equivilant of a middle finger for the sole purpose of making yourself a bigger man. Grow up to those who would do this.

(I of course do not mean you, Chrispy, im just talking to those who do these things =p)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on August 30, 2004, 10:52:57 am
Good to see this is still somewhat alive. Hope all the tactics contained herein are of assistance to people. I'd write more, but, well, there's no more ships to write about. :P


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 30, 2004, 12:39:39 pm
Why not branch off this a bit?

If you had the options to create new ships for each race, what would they be like? What abilities, how powerful, special weapons etc?

I would shamelessly rip off Startrek, and have a Voyager like ship. Primary fire is similar to the Arilou, except that it has 2 times the range, does twice the damage, costs twice as much energy, and fires half as fast. Alternate fire would launch a photon torpedo, which is a lot like the Podship's attack, but fires straight at the enemy, and doesn't steer, It should also be much smaller, and cost less energy.

Crew would be about 30, and Energy would be enough 4 Torpedoes.
It should be about par with the Yehat, speed wise, and similar to the Mrnhnrhmm in Laser form turning wise.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: FalconMWC on August 30, 2004, 06:23:42 pm
When you say, fires half as fast, do you mean recharge rate? (Since the lasers for the arlou fire constantly)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Art on August 31, 2004, 02:04:40 am
Quote
Why not branch off this a bit?

If you had the options to create new ships for each race, what would they be like? What abilities, how powerful, special weapons etc?

I would shamelessly rip off Startrek, and have a Voyager like ship. Primary fire is similar to the Arilou, except that it has 2 times the range, does twice the damage, costs twice as much energy, and fires half as fast. Alternate fire would launch a photon torpedo, which is a lot like the Podship's attack, but fires straight at the enemy, and doesn't steer, It should also be much smaller, and cost less energy.

Crew would be about 30, and Energy would be enough 4 Torpedoes.
It should be about par with the Yehat, speed wise, and similar to the Mrnhnrhmm in Laser form turning wise.


Erm, there *is* a Star Trek Federation-inspired ship in the game. It's called the Earthling Cruiser. :) Particularly fun when you have a captain named "Kirk".

Of course the Cruiser's look is based a lot more on the Enterprise from the original series, and doesn't have the warped, curvy look of the newer ST ships. I do feel like the digs in SC1 against the Cruiser for being based on mid-20th-century technology were a sly reference to the overall provinciality of the original Star Trek as seen from our era (things like the miniskirts, and Kirk passionately defending the Vietnam War, and such).

I do think the Cruiser's weapon systems give the feel of a Star Trek ship pretty well (pump out torpedoes, oh no they're too close to us, run away while wildly blasting with the beam weapons). Yes, the nukes seek, but they seek so wildly with such a wide turning arc that you actually do have to aim them, unlike BUTTs.

The relative suckiness of the weapons enhances this feeling. Before the ST fans jump on me, look, it's not natural for the Enterprise to ever be *winning* a fight, it always has to barely make it out, crippled, and have lots of drama and falling over and exploding consoles and the engineer shouting stuff about the ship being about to fall to pieces.

I haven't given much thought to ship design of my own, though plotwise two interesting ships to insert might be a Black Spathi Squadron fighter and the Mark II. The Mark II would be a souped-up Vindicator unsuitable for melee, of course; the main new ability I'd like it to have would be Arilou-like warping (since the saucer shape is reminiscent of a Skiff, and it'd be more mysteriousness around the Precursors -- a connection to the Arilou?) If it had Vindicator-style tracking Hellbores this would be ridiculously powerful -- but then that's the whole point of a flagship.

A BSS fighter would be smaller (lower crew complement) than an Eluder, but correspondingly have better weapon energy recharge rate. Would have missiles as good as BUTTs, though perhaps make them forward firing instead of rear firing. I'd love to hear these guys' dialogue -- they'd be kind of jittery and twitchy, the stereotypical result of a lifelong coward being pushed over the edge. (I always picture Fwiffo being this way by the end of the game, annihilating Dreadnoughts in screaming adrenaline bursts. As they say, "I set the thrusters to maximum, close my eye, and begin pressing the fire stud wildly.")

I remember reading a TFB interview where Paul Reiche recalled a proposal for a ship of time-travelers, perhaps appropriate for the Taalo in some sequel. The ship's special attack would be a "time reversal", a really cool but really hard-to-implement idea that would have the highly annoying ability to reset everything in the battle back to a saved snapshot taken about five seconds ago, allowing you to survive imminent death, repair damage, get back a promising tactical situation... Like I said, annoying.

I also remember Timewarp had a cool idea with a new generation of Probes, programmed to be actively hostile and therefore using their missiles (long-range BUTT-like trackers) against ships instead of their lightning weapons. I haven't tried it, but I imagine this would make Probes quite a bit more powerful.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 31, 2004, 09:03:53 pm
The Voyager usually barely escapes fights, crippled, is because its most often against overwhelming odds =p

The Mark II should have something like the Yamato Gun from Starcraft, but please not like the Melnorme...

The arilou laser isn't continious, its just really fast. I meant like instead of ZZZZZZZZ, it would be more like  Z Z Z Z Z Z.



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Mr._Jangles on September 10, 2004, 03:59:04 am
This is why CHMMR OWNS!!!   :D :D :D :

CHMMR AVATAR
================
o Combat value is 30.  Starts with 42 crew, 42 energy points.

o The Chmmr Avatar will arrive in the combat zone with 3 Zapsats.  The Zapsats
 are in a fixed orbit, moving clockwise around the ship at 120-degree
 intervals, and at a speed synchronized to the Chmmr's turning rate.  The
 Zapsats will maintain this orbit indefinitely unless they are destroyed, or
 the host Chmmr is physically separated from them.

o Laser weapon detail: Activated with the B button.  Costs 2 energy points to
 fire.  Can fire 21 times in a row at the highest repeat rate (continuous
 fire) if energy is at maximum.  Minimal, flash-use of the laser does 2 points
 of damage.

o The Chmmr main laser beam is a non-homing projectile.

o Tractor field detail: Activated with the C button.  Costs 1 energy point to
 use.  Can be used 42 times in a row at the highest repeat rate if energy is
 at maximum.

o The tractor field originates in front of the Chmmr ship, at a point which
 overlaps the outer edge of the Zapsat orbital path, and can instantly affect
 an enemy ship at any range in any direction.

o The tractor field can only affect an uncloaked enemy ship; it has no effect
 on asteroids, the planet, DOGIs, Zapsats, marines, hypnotized crew, fighters
 or projectiles.

o The tractor field cannot affect a cloaked Ilwrath Avenger.

o Under normal circumstances, the Chmmr tractor field cannot move an
 Ariloulaleelay Skiff or a Slylandro Probe.  However, if either

of those
 target ships have acquired VUX limpet parasites, they can be affected.  The
 more parasites on the target ship, the greater the effect of the tractor
 field.  Note, however, that the Arilou can only be affected while it is
 thrusting.

o On occasion, use of the tractor field may cause a reduction in a target
 ship's drive capacity.  (This is an effect that lasts even after the field is
 deactivated.)  The target ship can recover by thrusting in a different
 direction.

o The shields of the Utwig Jugger and Yehat Terminator cannot protect those
 ships from the effects of the tractor field.

o Chmmr captain names: Bzztrm, Chzrmn, Frnkzk, Kztztz, Kzzrn, Mnzgk, Mrnkzt,
 Prmtzz, Qrntz, Rmnzk, Szmrnz, Tzrtzn, Tzzqrn, Vzrzn, Zbzzn, Zrnzrk.




Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Culture20 on September 10, 2004, 04:07:21 am
Quote
This is why CHMMR OWNS!!!   :D :D :D :
o Chmmr captain names: Bzztrm, Chzrmn, Frnkzk, Kztztz, Kzzrn, Mnzgk, Mrnkzt,
 Prmtzz, Qrntz, Rmnzk, Szmrnz, Tzrtzn, Tzzqrn, Vzrzn, Zbzzn, Zrnzrk.

By far the most compeling reason.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on September 10, 2004, 02:23:52 pm
And yet it gets flawlessly beaten by the ORZ every time =p


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Terminator on September 11, 2004, 12:33:32 am
And the Druuge.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on September 11, 2004, 04:07:48 am
And the Utwig and the Yehat and the Traddish.... Heck, the 'Snyth too
from time to time.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Art on September 11, 2004, 04:37:33 am
All right, here's the theoretical question:

As we all know, a souped-up Precursor tug owns. It especially owns against most of the ships you actually have to use it against in single-player. And it doesn't take that much to soup it up to the point where it begins to own.

Question: If you were in the position of piloting a regular ship against the Precursor tug, which one would you pick? The most interesting answers to this question will probably involve different configurations (that is, one for a one-shot-killer with many Hellbores, one for a rapid-fire killer with one Hellbore and many PDF lasers, etc.) My feeling is that shield ships -- the Jugger and the Terminator -- are the ones with the best chance, but I want to hear other opinions.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: FalconMWC on September 11, 2004, 05:50:04 am
I would try the Druuge.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 11, 2004, 07:11:48 am
Uhmm...good choices....

Let's see...I've beat Chmmr very easily before with:

Orz, Chmmr, Mycon, Androsynth, Pkunk, Kohr-Ah, Druuge, Supox, Spathi, Utwig, Zoq-Fot-Pik, Yehat, Thraddash, Melnorme.

Ur-Quan, Ilwrath, Chenjesu, Mmrnmhrm I even get them on a very lucky day :-)

Hardly awesome.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on September 11, 2004, 10:29:45 am
Any ship? Or any aliance ship?
I'd try the Chmmr first, I think. Then Utwig and Yehat.
If I could, I'd probably also want to try the Kor-Ah. Their long
distance weapon could work well.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on September 11, 2004, 11:05:54 am
Well since you whip the Kohr Ah easily (if you can dodge) with the Vindi, I assume it would be a fast fight.

What I want to do is use a syreen....100 crew would do nicely =p


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: FalconMWC on September 11, 2004, 06:06:10 pm
Quote
Well since you whip the Kohr Ah easily (if you can dodge) with the Vindi, I assume it would be a fast fight.



Are we talking about having the 'Vindi controlled by CPU or Human?

Also, you can't get over 42 crew in the syreen (at least in my version...). It will accept them, but when you get hit, its like you had 42.




Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Mr._Jangles on September 12, 2004, 12:47:41 am
Can't wait till star control Online is actully is ONLINE.

Anyway the Chmmr can own any of those ships                    (think secondary fire) and tractor beam and laser would really, just shatter anyship unless its fast enough to escape. Hmmm really can't wait to SCO is online ill SHOW YOU ALL!  :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: guest on September 12, 2004, 02:24:54 am
Jangles: Druuge Mauler pwnz Avatar.  Tractor=useless compared to Mauler recoil.  Zapsats=useless when defending against Mauler shells.  Every ship has a weakness.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: guest on September 12, 2004, 02:37:23 am
To attack an unknown configuration of flagship:  Orz or Khor-Ah.  Khor-Ah have the only indestructable weapon, usefull against a "lancer" version of flagship.   Orz can dodge some hellbores, and use marines to block other hellbores.  marines would be primary form of combat, and since most people would choose 3 ATS's and only 1 or 0 PDLs, marines would be hard to kill on entry.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on September 12, 2004, 04:27:00 am
Yeah we knew you were a n00b by your other posts, but this erases all doubt.

Quote
Hmmm really can't wait to SCO is online ill SHOW YOU ALL!  :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: meep-eep on September 12, 2004, 11:28:44 am
Those who want to try fighting against a human with the flagship could try the following patch. All it does is set both sides to human in the full game. I know it's not exactly what you're likely to want, but it's the best I could do in five minutes.

--- setup.c
+++ setup.c.patched
@@ -205,6 +205,7 @@

       for (which_player = 0; which_player < NUM_PLAYERS; ++which_player)
       {
+#if 0
               if (!(PlayerControl[which_player] & HUMAN_CONTROL))
                       PlayerInput[which_player] = ComputerInput;
               else if (LOBYTE (GLOBAL (CurrentActivity)) != SUPER_MELEE)
@@ -218,6 +219,7 @@
                       }
               }
               else
+#endif
                       PlayerInput[which_player] = HumanInput[which_player];
       }
}


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on September 13, 2004, 04:47:49 am
Quote
Anyway the Chmmr can own any of those ships (think secondary fire) and tractor beam and laser would really, just shatter anyship unless its fast enough to escape.


Well, letsee. The Chmmr Tractor Beam doesn't affect the Androsynth Guardian while it's in Blazer mode. You get close to me or draw me in with your Tractor, I Blaze, whip around to face you, and while you're trying to get a bead on a comet with a single beam of energy, I blow through a ZapSat and lodge myself into your wing crevace, making your death a quick, albiet painful one. Even if you do manage to tag me a little, it won't matter. If you don't bother to tractor, I'll leave trails of bubbles all around for your ZapSats to try to kill, slowly wear them/you down, and then finish you off.

One ship doesn't "own" all other ships. It's a large misconception, usually made by, as Smith put it so well, a newb. But that's ok. We were all newbs at one time.
Come grow with us.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Art on September 13, 2004, 09:19:52 am
Quote
Can't wait till star control Online is actully is ONLINE.

Anyway the Chmmr can own any of those ships                    (think secondary fire) and tractor beam and laser would really, just shatter anyship unless its fast enough to escape. Hmmm really can't wait to SCO is online ill SHOW YOU ALL!  :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D


The SCO group is still online. The denial-of-service attack they tried to launch with the MyDoom virus didn't do all that much, and... oh, never mind.

"Unless it's fast enough to escape" actually includes a lot of ships, you know. Especially if the pilot is smart enough to use manuevers other than blindly struggling against the tractor. A Guardian in Blazer form especially will scare the pants off an overconfident Chmmr pilot (except that Chmmr do not wear pants).

Although SC2 isn't online, you should try playing against humans a little more; with some practice you can find the Avatar's weaknesses, if not against the Mauler or the Guardian (which take some practice to use properly) than at least against the Marauder and Dreadnought; the Avatar may be a match for them, as the Chmmr say, but it doesn't beat them handily. Between equally good players a Marauder or Dreadnought vs. Chmmr is a toss-up of sheer beatdown power and usually leaves the winner almost dead. And apparently you've totally failed to think of any decent strategies against the Utwig Jugger's shields...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Sander Scamper on September 13, 2004, 02:42:02 pm
Damn Utwig..

I've never ever been very good with the mauler, and get frustrated playing against the computer, who the hell can hit a Lleylanded Shofixti while themselves travelling backward faster than the screen can follow?


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: FalconMWC on September 13, 2004, 09:19:21 pm
Well, a computer set on awsome....  ;)

As for the utwig, well, if you fire enough at it, the computer will "forget" to use its shields on the druuge ship every so often. It will not waste energy though......

Of course, it will was ALL of its energy if you pilot a arlou next to it... Kinda funny to watch.....


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on September 13, 2004, 09:37:20 pm
Personally, I like using the Eluder against the Utwig. The Utwig
will slowly use up its shields for every near-miss from a BUTT.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on September 14, 2004, 01:53:44 am
Quote
Laser weapon detail: Activated with the B button.  Costs 2 energy points to fire.  Can fire 21 times in a row at the highest repeat rate (continuous fire) if energy is at maximum.  Minimal, flash-use of the laser does 2 points of damage.


At least get your stats right: recall that the Chmmr does regenerate energy, so the frame-time of continuous fire will be 42/(cost - regen), where both cost and regen are per-frame. If regen were slow, the 21 figure would be appropriate, but regeneration is extremely fast.

That said, I agree with the others: these statistics are irrelevant compared to the tactics which can be used against the Chmmr. Few AI ships use these tactics, which is how you can come to the conclusion you did.

Compare this with the way you can use the Thraddash to whip (almost) any AI ship.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: IBT on September 17, 2004, 04:32:54 am
i have 3 favs.
the zoqfot ship, the victory music make it worth it.
and the orz nemesis, for the marines and tanklikeness
and the chmmr ship, for its unrelenting strenth and death causeing.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: VOiD on September 17, 2004, 08:27:11 pm
Quote
the zoqfot ship, the victory music make it worth it.

And would that be the original or remixed victory music? Eh? Eh? ;)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: IBT on September 18, 2004, 07:03:26 am
whichever one is included in game, i have never played the original.

one round of that music is good enough to bring TSA moral up.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain Smith on October 07, 2004, 07:21:11 pm
Resurrecting this post - read through it and you'll see all kinds of tactics.  In fact, I might see if I can update & write some more of my thoughts on fighting with some of the ships.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on October 07, 2004, 08:40:18 pm
Being the person that started this post, I'm glad to see that the combined knowledge of tacticians such as myself, Spurk, Krogoth, Paco, Smith, Sage, JWJ, and yes, even Jiffa :P is still being looked at and hopefully put to some good use.

To the new people- just because we have given tactics doesn't mean there aren't new ones to find. If you see something that works and isn't in here, write it!


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Unheil on December 14, 2004, 10:04:51 pm
There is a tactic to win every Battle in SC1 with a X-Form against any hierarchy ship:

Stay in Y-form an keep firing. Then just keep max distance to the enemy and don't care about aiming. Most missiles will miss, but some will hit, so its just a question of surviving long enough. That is possiple when you keep the ship heading in a 90° angle to your opponents direction of flight, never head directly away from him, since your flying directly into him on the other side.

Against Avengers just keep distance and fire unaimed missiles. It takes time, but it works.

The only way to harm the Y-Form is using a drone, but it should be easy to escape it with low damage.

In SC2 (and uqm) this tactic still works on many ships.

but...

My favorite ship is the scout. Though it has a glory device, it still has a gun and is manouverable. Ever gunned a Marauder? This is fun!

The Torches is also a great ship. Just remember that the gun is a long range weapon and your fast enough to escape most ships an missiles. I just went through the sa-matra and its guards with a single torch. It is easier than you might think!


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Fossaman on December 15, 2004, 02:23:36 am
You wanted favorite ships, huh?
I have to go split between ZFP and Thraddash. I won't go into great detail as they've both been done already.

Zoq-Fot-Pik
General Tactics:
Get up to speed, then turn around and strafe. Firing while flying backwards increases range.
Gravity whip like crazy. It is the best tactic for escaping/closing with the enemy.
Tongueing!!! To be used in conjunction with the gravity whip! If you are good, you can tongue by strafing. Fly sideways at the maximum tongue range and LICK that sucker.

Special Tactics:
I will only list my favorites here:
Ur-Quan: Strafe the fighters, then gravity whip and tongue broadside.
Utwig: Rush them. For some reason, they turn away as if they want to run. It only takes two tongues to kill a jugger. If you wait until the very last second, they won't shield.
Kohr-Ah: Dart in, evade the F.R.I.E.D., and tongue.
Thraddash: Just kill it, okay?
Arilou: You can head straight at it and tongue at the last second. You may lose half your crew, but it usually works.

Thraddash:

General Tactics:
AFTERBURNERS!!!
Don't waste too much time on your gun. It uses more energy than is practical, leaving you without a quick escape.
If you can't wait for a recharge, just hold down the burners and they will accelerate you to the same speed as otherwise, it just takes longer.
If you want to turn on burners, kick in your regular engines, make the turn, and burn again. For some reason the normal engine acts like a brake.
This can be used offensively, too. Just drain your battery and use burners and engines at the same time, moving in a zig zag pattern. Put this between you and your enemy and they will often run into it. Great for small, fast ships.
Laying fire around planets when the opponent gravity whips is good too. Not unlike NECRO's gaurdian tactics.
Special Tactics:
Ur-Quan: Wait till the fighters get close, then fire burners and lay an arc facing them. Bye-Bye fighters. Then use the afterburner to kill the big ship, it is too massive to avoid it.

Androsynth: Wait till it blazers, and try to make it run into your burners. It dies fast, if you hit it.

Utwig: It only shields sometimes with burners. Self evident. Same with the Yehat.

Chmmr: Let it get close, then burn off the sats. Fun.

Those are the really fun battles with those, in my opinion.



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Unheil on December 15, 2004, 12:16:01 pm
Quote
Thraddash:

General Tactics:
AFTERBURNERS!!!
Don't waste too much time on your gun. It uses more energy than is practical, leaving you without a quick escape.
If you can't wait for a recharge, just hold down the burners and they will accelerate you to the same speed as otherwise, it just takes longer.
Don't hold your finger an the gun-button! This weapon is only effective when you fire single good aimed shots. Its incredible firering range is the power of this weapon.
Especially versus Jugger this weapon is marvelous. You stay far away from his fire and he can only try to absorb the shots. If successfull then his energy stays constant, if not then it reduces. Never use the afterburners against a jugger with energy!


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Fossaman on December 16, 2004, 08:09:30 am
The Jugger will stop shielding even when it's running through the flames. This way is quicker, if you fly it right.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Captain_Smith on December 16, 2004, 09:34:20 am
Just because you think it's a good tactic against the computer doesn't mean it is a good one.   Most human pilots will shield against Thraddash flames.

The computer, even on awesome, does a lot of tactically stupid things, this being one of them.  If you can abuse one of these things against the computer, it doesn't mean it will work on a human pilot.

Quote
The Jugger will stop shielding even when it's running through the flames. This way is quicker, if you fly it right.



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Halleck on December 16, 2004, 02:36:16 pm
Yeah. There's nothing wrong with anti-computer tactics, but I recall that this thread was focused on Player vs. Player.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on December 16, 2004, 07:11:28 pm
Quite right.
I had focused this thread on fighting other people in melee, not the computer. The others that wrote in did the same thing, pretty much.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Xander77 on December 16, 2004, 10:46:43 pm
So... now that we went through ever ship... it's time to pick apart strategies, and suggest counter-strategies, right?

For example, I really dislike the sections in the Chejenzu battle guide that say "close in", especially vs powerful opponents. The main advantage that the Ch have is that they DON'T need to close in. Let the other guy come to you, taking damage all the way. Actually, if feasable, given opponent speed vs your own, run away while firing.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on December 17, 2004, 11:03:20 pm
Well, the idea generally is,

Big ship --> easily DOGI'd --> can temporarily become helpless until pushed faster than DOGIs move --> pin enemy between you and DOGI so they can't escape or fire --> Mutilate!

Example vs. Kohr-Ah:

launch a DOGI, charge. DOGI will circle around back if the Kohr-Ah faces you, and will require a FRIED. You can then close in and wipe out the Kohr-Ah while they're low on battery.

Against Chmmr, you will not be able to maintain range, so you might as well charge.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Xander77 on December 18, 2004, 12:22:07 am
So you might as well waste the 3-4 shots that might mean the difference between survival and being blown up? Riiiiiiiiight.  ::)

Also, if you charge, you're more likely to overshoot (especially small ship) and have a ship firing at your back, while you oh so slowly turn...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: axident on January 13, 2005, 07:28:37 am
Against the computer, the Torch is always the first ship I go for, because it’s efficiency incarnate; except against the Druuge, most fights don’t last long, the Torch is low-casualty (it’s hard to even hit at all; if it does get scuffed up, just slap in a few crew into it and it’s as good as new) and easy to replace at 1000 RU per ship. Imho, RU point for RU point, the Thraddash Torch is the single most efficient ship in the entire game.

By the way, with one Torch and some spare crew, you can rack up massive amounts of RU in very little time simply by visiting a Yehat-controlled star and roasting scores of them.  It’s even faster and safer than using an Arilou to blow away scores of Mycon, and the RU you’d get is roughly the same either way.

As far as human v. human, I prefer the Orz Nemesis; the turret pointing (esp. backwards), speed, maneuverability, and space marines give it NO WEAKNESSES since you can’t shield/absorb with Yehat/Utwig.  It's a Swiss Army Knife.  The Chmmr Avatar is NOT a Swiss Army knife; it's overrate, takes too many hits because it's slow, and it's is in for a bad day if it meets an Utwig attacker.

------------------------------------------------
Anyway, on to Torch Tactics 101:

The computer will be either aggressive (flies towards you like Ilwrath, Kohr-Ah) or evasive (tries to fly away/around you; like Pkunk, Slylandro).  Against the aggressive ships, just fly towards them.  After you reach top speed (which takes only a second), turn around, riding your inertia so you are going on direction even though you’re facing the other, and when your butt gets close to the aggressive ship, hit the afterburners and let the enemy fry itself.  Against evasive ships, I have found some tactics to work well (see below).

Androsynth: Aggressive.  Let it make a comet and follow you; when it gets close, fry it with flame.

Arilou: the programmers probably intentionally gave computer pilots occasional hiccups.  Just lay down a line of flame and quickly move in such a way that the Arilou is on one side and you’re on the other; the computer will half-heartedly dodge the line but eventually cross it and die.  This may take a few tries.  You can also do gravity well cheese (see Druuge).

Chenjesu:  Evasive.  DOGI batt-suckers aren’t hard to kill.  The trick is to get the Chenjesu to build up inertia and then quickly turn around; by the time the screen wraps around, you’re close enough to lay down a fire wall for the Broodhome to run into.  Do this enough times and you’ll win.

Chmmr Avatar: Aggressive.  Afterburn it.

Druuge.  My least favorite opponent.  Basically just steer the Torch close to the planet and keep the planet between the two ships; the Druuge ship will eventually crash into the planet enough times to die.

Earthling Cruiser:  Close in, but out of laser range, and keep firing in its direction.  Even if you miss, the Earthling will waste valuable battery on lasering your misses.  18 hits later, you should win.

Ilwrath:  Let it chase you and then burn it.

Kohr-Ah:  Shoot a couple of times in its direction or else juke a little bit to get it to waste its battery.  Then get close enough to lay down a long stream of flame.  Repeat if necessary to kill it.  Switch direction of flow sometimes, else you may run into a spinning shuriken.

Melnorme:  The comm-jammer can go right through flame, so be careful to dodge laterally.  Treat it like a Chenjesu.

Mnhrmmm(sp? I hate spelling it):  Get in front of its slow form, then guess which direction it’ll go next and lay down a fire wall; you have a 50-50 chance of it transforming into the fast form and running through the wall.  Repeat.

Mycon:  Treat like a Chenjesu.  Be careful to not get right in front of its cannon.

Pkunk:  Get close to a planet and slow down.  When the Pkunk ship gets near, it will gain a lot of speed.  Exploit that interia by laying down a lot of flame.  The Pkunk will be unable to dodge it.  Repeat as necessary.

Orz:  It’s not hard to eventually burn up all of the marines that are chasing you.  Once that happens, see Pkunk.

Shofixti:  See Pkunk.

Slylandro(sp?):  Treat like Arilou or Pkunk, your choice.

Spathi:  See Pkunk.  Even more annoying than Pkunk thanks to the seeking missile.

Supox:  See Pkunk.

Syreen:  Like the Druuge, a pain in the ass.  See Pkunk for tactics; you may lose some crew due to the Syreen special ability, but they’ll probably get sucked into the planet, so at least the Syreen won’t get them.

Torch:  See Pkunk.

Umgah:  Let it chase you and afterburn it.

Ur-Quan:  Fighters are easy to burn up.  Else, treat it like a Kohr-Ah with low battery.

Utwig:  See Yehat.

Yehat:  For some reason, it doesn’t use its shields if you are far away enough, so just treat it like an Avatar.

Vux:  Let it chase you and afterburn it.

Zot Fot Pik:  See Pkunk.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: axident on January 13, 2005, 07:36:56 am
Against HUMANS:  Orz Nemesis:

I like this against human players, because you can set the gun to shoot backwards, have great speed and turning, and nothing good can catch up to you without getting marined (e.g., a Chmmr Avatar can try to suck you in, but just keep turning as if you were trying to orbit it, and you’ll do a dance of death and resemble a pair of binary stars in the process.  Just shoot at it once in a while.  Incidentally, I do the same dance of death when I’m in an Avatar v. Avatar situation against the computer, and my records is 16 straight kills with one Avatar, and the 17th computer Avatar had six crew left.).

Against the computer, the Nemesis is going to have a rough day sometimes against the very fast ships, but the good thing is that humans trying to pilot fast ships usually can’t steer as well as the computer can, so make use of those marines!


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Fossaman on January 13, 2005, 09:14:55 am
One thing with Thraddash vs. Chenjesu or other big, slow, lumbering ships, is that you can ram them with afterburners to get them moving and make it easier to hit them with the afterburner. That's about the only way I've won against a chenjesu with thraddash, because the other player tries to just sit there and fire at you so they won't get burned.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: FreakyM on January 13, 2005, 10:00:20 am
My two eternal favorite ships: The Scout and The Marauder.

Although it cant take much damage, the Scout is a very lethal ship in right hands. Plus, due to it´s small size and quick turning, It´s sometimes very hard to hit. And if things go wrong..Kiyaiee!

The Marauder is indeed a beautiful vessel. The sawblades are a very tactical weapon and against a human, also annoying on the plus side.. As an answer to that DOGI thing I usually end up sitting in my own minefield with a few blades behind me, and casually chuking them into the Broodhome´s path.. It isnt such a good ship for dodging =)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Mr.__Fwiffo on February 23, 2005, 05:03:53 am
This is a great post.  I have many favorite ships  One of the best though is the Utwig Jugger.  Sure it's slow, but it has fire power.  It has a force field shield that protects it form anything and is recharged when its on and the ship is hit.  Even though you may run out of shield energy, it can destroy any other ship out there.  You really have to train yourself though.

All time favorite: Spathi.  They are fast and manuevarble.  My favorite tactic is their "poop bomb" (sound).  Against most ships and all ur-quan, fly close until enemy is in range, turn 90 degrees poop bombs away!  Very affective against most ships, but you have to omit Mycoon.


Title: Finest Ships
Post by: Deus Siddis on February 23, 2005, 09:13:46 am
My favorite ship is the Earthling Cruiser. It turns fast, is deadly accurate, excellent range, makes a really cool missile noise, and looks sorta cool.

After that comes the Chenjesu Broodhome in second place, the Yehat Terminator in third, the Supox Blade, and finally the Mmrnmhrm Transformer.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on February 23, 2005, 08:23:22 pm
Good to see this thread has been re-resurrected. I've been working with Supox a bit recently. After reading Smith's post about it, I realized something.
I'm a fanatical Quake player, and one of the most important tactics you can use in Quake is the circle-strafe, which consists of running sideways around your opponent while keeping your barrel blazing at him. (I'd try a lovely ASCII drawing, but I wager you folks get it.)
I realized that this is a possible tactic with the Supox. Thrust till within range, special, fire (continual), realease special to turn once your line of fire is gone, re-adjust, special again, firing all the while.
At first, getting one's fingers to do this properly is difficult, but I managed to tear apart a Dreadnought in about 3 seconds once I closed. The fighters did chew on me a bit, but not a single fusion bolt hit. Just a new idea for everyone. ;)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Vilocon on February 23, 2005, 09:40:08 pm
That seems very interesting. The Supox strafe should have been easier to control though, or at least faster than normal thrust.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: CptWinky on February 24, 2005, 12:42:27 am
I agree that the Supox is deadly when used right.  I don't use Supox much, but they are good against Ur-Quan.  Get just within range and you can mow down some of his fighters while also hitting the Dreadnought itself, then retreat while firing at the remaining fighters.

As for favorite ship, I can't choose between the Androsynth, VUX, Melnorme, Thraddash, and Mrrnmhrm.  They're all great.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Fossaman on February 24, 2005, 01:44:24 am
My favorite ship would definitely have to be the Zoq-Fot-Pik. It's fast enough to outrun most things, but it's still manueverable. Powerful secondary and a good primary strafing weapon.

Against the computer on a good day, I can take out an Ur-quan or Kohr Ah with just one or two Stingers.

My second favorite would have to be the Arilou. I can't take out Ur-quan with it, but I can know out a Marauder.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deus Siddis on February 24, 2005, 07:33:56 am
Ok, I have two sub questions:

1) Which ship do you think looks the coolest?

2) Which weapon looks/sounds the coolest?


I think the yehat is the coolest looking ship and the nuclear missile is coolest sounding and coolest looking (I like that crescent fireball.)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Fossaman on February 24, 2005, 08:41:22 am
Coolest looking ship: Mmrnmhrmm in the X mode.

Coolest looking weapon: Melnorme Primary

Coolest sounding weapon: ZFP tongue. :P


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Mormont on March 02, 2005, 07:54:43 pm
I'd like to point out a second tactic that can be used with the Androsynth vs. the Chmmr. Trying to notch your comet into his wing is the fastest way, but it's also risky. Alternatively, you can launch small clouds of bubbles, comet away to safety, and repeat. This is slower, but safer.

Coolest looking ship: Dreadnought, Probe
Coolest looking weapon: Ur-quan fusion blast, Supox seeds
Coolest sounding weapon: Yehat pulse cannon, Dreadnought fusion blast, Kohr-ah FRIED


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: CptWinky on March 04, 2005, 02:16:37 am
Coolest looking ship: Androsynth
Coolest looking weapon: a swarm of Ur-Quan fighters in action
Coolest sounding weapon: Earthling missile


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on March 04, 2005, 03:06:58 am
Coolest looking ship: Orz
Coolest looking weapon: Koar-Ah blades
Coolest sounding weapon: FRIED


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Halleck on March 04, 2005, 05:29:28 am
Coolest looking ship: Avatar.
Coolest looking weapon: Marauder's blades, followed by avatar's laser
Coolest souding weapon: "LAUNCH FIGHTERS!"

and I'm adding one...
Coolest captain name: Halleck!  ;D


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on March 04, 2005, 08:33:08 pm
-Best looking: Androsynth Guardian (rock on, Winky!) followed by Slylandro Probe
-Coolest looking weapon: Shofixti Glory Device followed by Thraddash Afterburners
-Coolest sounding weapon: Dreadnought Fusion blasts and Guardian going Blazer. When you hear either, you know business is coming.
-Best Captain Name: Fwiffo. Hands down, guys. C'mon.

I'm gonna add 2 other things, just to keep interest high.

Favorite theme song - Ur-Quan Kzer-Za. See below.

Favorite voice -  Ur-Quan Kzer-Za (well, the talking pets I guess :P). The music + the voice is absolutely masterfully combined to make the player terrified, especially when you run into the drone for the first time. That deep, rumbling bass voice perfectly fits the race. I remember when I first got the sounds put in after playing SC2 w/ no sound for the longest time...I  had shivers down my spine when I heard the 'Quan music/voice combo from the drone for the first time. And the best part? It's still as terrifying today.
Even separate; the music has a "dictator" feel to it, and the voices by themselves are disheartening, to say the least. But mix them together, and voila, you've got a symphony of fear.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deus Siddis on March 04, 2005, 11:01:13 pm
Coolest captain name: Pike

Favorite theme/voice: Mycon

The mycon just have this creepy ancient cult sort of feel. You can't quite decide whether they are really wise or just really freakish. It's especially bizzare when their voices go haywire and you can hear the words of the precursor scientists.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: CptWinky on March 05, 2005, 02:41:18 am
Coolest captain name: Patooti (heh)

Best theme: Ur-Quan, hands down, followed by the VUX and Druuge themes

Best voice: Ur-Quan, followed by the Utwig.  The first time I talked to an Utwig captain, I thought he should just get a damn Livejournal :)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on March 06, 2005, 05:54:07 am
Yes! I had forgotten about the VUX theme. It's not frightening like the Quan one is, but when you hear that guitar, you can only think, "Oops..."


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deus Siddis on March 07, 2005, 07:42:29 am
Yea, the Ur-quan, Mycon, Vux and perhaps Ilwrath have the deadly music field cornered.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Mormont on March 07, 2005, 04:50:51 pm
Voice: Spathi is hilarious, especially the Ultimate Evil and the Spathi prayer. Ilwrath is quite good too. I've never liked the Ur-quan one that much.

Music: Remixed Druuge, Yehat.

Another category...
Victory Ditty: Kzer-za.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: CptWinky on March 08, 2005, 02:24:41 am
Hmm, victory ditty...that's a tough one.

It's a tie between the Ur-Quan, VUX, Androsynth, and Thraddash for me.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Mormont on March 08, 2005, 02:50:34 am
I don't like Thraddash. Doesn't really suit the race.


Title: Mostest Bestest
Post by: Deus Siddis on March 08, 2005, 04:24:39 am
Druuge, then Earthling, and then Mycon have the best victory tunes.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Mr.__Fwiffo on March 20, 2005, 12:38:56 am
I agree.  The Druuge have the best victory ditty.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on March 22, 2005, 11:20:45 pm
Ditties? Druuge and Kzer-Za. Both let you know you've just been trod upon quite severely, or did some major thwomp-work yourself.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Fossaman on March 23, 2005, 04:31:53 am
I have to say that I like the Orz dittie. But the druuge is cool too. They both convey a creepy-evil sort of mood.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Holocat on June 16, 2006, 07:27:17 am
Despite this topic being very, very old, no one seems to mind its previous ressurections and I dearly want to talk about ships.  That said, after reading this long and detailed document I yet have a few things to add.

Cruiser:  There are two things I would like to get off my chest. 

First, the sometimes-argued policy of not firing directly at your target with nukes, despite the tracking system (or rather because of it)  The shot still generally hits along a slightly curved arc, but more importantly the hit usually isn't centerlined, and is therefore far harder to shoot down.  Granted, a human player is less likely to do things like shoot down nukes but once you see the computer do it it's hard for an opponent to not try a few wild shots.

Second, I don't think it has been stated that if you gravity whip with good precision, you can create the situation where you are constantly wrapping the screen in a chaotic manner.  The computer is not effective at closing the distance and this also usually foils human opponents, baring luck which is very fickle to both sides in this situation.  Despite all the problems of close-passes, asteroids or the rare time there's an actual interception, this is the best situation for the Cruiser player to be in, similar to the mycon.

To regale my childhood days I have to say this was my favoirite ship, and to shamelessly brag I quite masterful at using it too;  Most heavier ships I could hold my own, even in battles that are traditionally very challenging, such as Kor-ah, Broodhome or Ur Quan.  I admit, however, that in my playing group no one really favoured the truly heavy ships (other than the avatar) and consequently no one got really good at using them.

Syreen:  In SC1 I would have called this the most dangerous ship in space, as you could always try to find a colony and full crew them.  In SC2/UQM, this ship has fallen back to a dangerous but not overpowerful ship only because you can no longer keep full crews on them.  Out of every weapon available, none of them will do more damage over time than that call, if you can get in range.

Torch:  Though this ship is often derided, I find this vessel one of the more dangerous ships in the game.  Many people use the afterburner as its main weapon, which is effective, but one should never underestimate the Torch's main gun.  Weak, but it has fantastic range;  Burning away and using the main gun is a tactic that can't be countered easily by ships slower than it, and ships that do close will still have the standard afterburner tactics to worry about.

Scout:  Like the torch, this ship is reasonably fast, very maneauverable and has a weak gun.  You have to get closer, but dancing with the main gun is effective, even more so against human players that will bug out and desperately attempt to gain range from its bomb.  Sadly enough, I lose a lot of bomb oppourtunities by attempting to dance with it, but with some skill dancing is again quite effective.

Stinger:  I hated this ship.  Not because I can't use it (though it is true that I can't use this ship effectively)  but because when I was a kid, one of my friends got very, very good at using this ship.  Leyland Tounge Strafing was almost an art in his hands, much to my frustration.

Avatar:  Everything is argued about this ship.  While I agree it is not all powerful it is still highly dangerous.  More importantly to tactics is that it is basically immune to stand-off ships like the Mycon, X-form or my beloved Cruiser, and since I was effective with the cruiser most of my friends would keep one, just in case I got too successful with the earthling fleet.

We also dueled often in this ship, which is very, very amusing.  Very hairy situation and it had a very heavy, majestic feel to the battle.  Strangely enough, there IS a method to winning that madness.

Skiff:  In recent attempts, I have been using (for some reason) this ship well.  Or better at least, which isn't saying much because I couldn't use it effectively at all when this game was still Star Control 2 and I was still a wee earthling duking it out on a 386.  Odd.

Probe:  This is another ship that one of my group got very good at using.  Though the vile things were indeed good at cutting down my crusier contengient it wasn't so bad as 'a ship designed to eat cruisers.'  Still, this may be because we played small point games and played very conservatively;  Unlike what appears to be the norm here, standing off and long, drawn out battles were the norm, and we did enjoy ourselves despite that.

anyway, thank you for letting me get that off my shoulders. 


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Adunaphel on June 17, 2006, 02:57:21 am
Favorite voice -  Ur-Quan Kzer-Za (well, the talking pets I guess :P). The music + the voice is absolutely masterfully combined to make the player terrified, especially when you run into the drone for the first time. That deep, rumbling bass voice perfectly fits the race. I remember when I first got the sounds put in after playing SC2 w/ no sound for the longest time...I  had shivers down my spine when I heard the 'Quan music/voice combo from the drone for the first time. And the best part? It's still as terrifying today.
Even separate; the music has a "dictator" feel to it, and the voices by themselves are disheartening, to say the least. But mix them together, and voila, you've got a symphony of fear.

Man, I couldn't agree more with you here.  While I generally like the Precursor remixes a lot, I had to go in and delete the new Kzer-Za music.  It just doesn't fit them at all.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Lance_Vader on June 20, 2006, 11:45:07 pm
Why does everyone like the Druuge ditty?  It's kinda cool, but I think the Androsynth, Kohr-Ah, Utwig, and Orz ditties are all much better.

Androsynth just have good music, and I really would have liked to see them in SC2.  Alas, we do not.

That's not so bad, though, because we get the Orz.  Their ditty is fitting, and still dangerous.

Kohr-Ah and Utwig are just good.  Chmmr also fits in this category.  They beat the Druuge at their own game in my opinion.

As for music, Arilou hold the unremixed first place, with the remixed VUX, Thraddash and Kzer-za all being really good.

Orz gets the "most appropriate" title.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Orzy-man! on June 21, 2006, 06:27:48 pm
I ACTUALLY created lyrics for the Androsynth ditty. It goes like this.


                        Singin' in the shower makes you feel so good!
                                        Makes you feel squeaky clean!


I made those because the captain picture looks like three guys taking a shower. Thus the androsynth nickname... the shower boys


I personally like the earthling,  It is only good against a limited number of ships though and it doesn't need strategy, thus the name "Fire and forget" nuclear missiles.

I created a weird tactic for the Pkunk, i'm sure some people have done it.

Fly up to any ship and spin around really fast while shooting out pellets, anything within the ships range radius will be showered upon by molten pellets. I call it the merry-go-round tactic.



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on June 22, 2006, 11:33:37 am
I ACTUALLY created lyrics for the Androsynth ditty. It goes like this.


                        Singin' in the shower makes you feel so good!
                                        Makes you feel squeaky clean!


I made those because the captain picture looks like three guys taking a shower. Thus the androsynth nickname... the shower boys


I personally like the earthling,  It is only good against a limited number of ships though and it doesn't need strategy, thus the name "Fire and forget" nuclear missiles.

I created a weird tactic for the Pkunk, i'm sure some people have done it.

Fly up to any ship and spin around really fast while shooting out pellets, anything within the ships range radius will be showered upon by molten pellets. I call it the merry-go-round tactic.

Talk about necroposting...

1. Ugh. Those 'shower boys' will crush any ship into atomic dust if I'm piloting it. Respect where it's due.
2. The Hunam Crusier is fun from time to time, akin to the Podship but a more streamline design.
3. Spinning + Shooting Pkunk = "Deathblossom", as I think someone called it somewhere in the depths of this thread.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on June 22, 2006, 09:07:14 pm
The cruiser doesn't need strategy? I'd seriously disagree. You need to figure out a good trajectory that won't be easily intercepted, you need to keep track of the planet, you need to decide whether to fire one or two missiles, and if you fire two, whether to fire the first at an angle so as to get them to come in close to the same time and be harder to dodge.


There are a lot more important choices with the cruiser than many other ships. Not as many as some, but quite a few.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Draxas on June 22, 2006, 10:14:32 pm
While true, however, it's also easy and reasonably effective to play the Cruiser as a simple "fire and forget" ship. Since it has long and short range weapons that both home in on targets, it's pretty simple for anyone to use. Mastering those choice will make it even more deadly, of course, but it doesn't take much effort to use it decently, which is much more than you can say for a lot of other ships.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Holocat on June 23, 2006, 05:40:20 am
While I agree that against some ships the Cruiser can be used as a attrition vessel, I disagree that it has both *effective* long and short range weapons.  The laser is not a effective short range weapon.  Startlingly good defense once you use it properly (for instance, you can neutralize an entire spathi's main gun spread if you activate your laser at the right time, or other rapid-fire, weak pellet guns.  It's an excersize in twitch though, and not a casual thing.)

I am, ultimately on the side that this ship is a more tactical vessel than simply an attrition vessel;  It is a stand-off ship that has neither high speed or a way to discourage people from closing, these weaknesses being torturously shown when against ships such as the former Guardian.  Therefore, to use it effectively it requires the Leyland maneauver, which is itself dangerous.  The Mycon are similar in this respect, but their main weapon is MUCH, MUCH more dangerous up close, making it that much more dangerous to close with.

Note that when I say 'attrition' vessel, I mean that a vessel that used in numbers can, even in unskilled hands, cause disproportionate casualties.  A good example would be the Avatar, or any assault of battleship, such as the Ur-Quan vessels.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Draxas on June 23, 2006, 06:32:03 pm
Hey, I never said that the laser was an *effective* short range weapon, just that it homed in on targets. Is it a good idea to use the Cruiser as a battering ram? No way. But a novice, who would have no experience flying even more complicated and more tactical ships, would be pleased with the Cruiser's ability to inflict at least some damage against most vessels.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Deus Siddis on June 24, 2006, 03:18:24 am
Of course it is an effective close ranged weapon, it hits instantly (so the arilou can't beat you, ever) it blocks enemy shots, it is turreted and it can't miss. But it isn't the be-all-end-all of close ranged weapons either, nor is it good against all foes.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: nightwrath on June 24, 2006, 01:19:52 pm
I have a question: Is it of any use to slow down the Umgah zipping (by pushing thrust and secondary at the same time)?

And another: How do you guys dispatch Kzer-Za fighters using the Umgah cone? I tried it and those damn fighters just don't go into the cone, no matter from what angle they come.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Novus on June 24, 2006, 03:37:44 pm
I have a question: Is it of any use to slow down the Umgah zipping (by pushing thrust and secondary at the same time)?
If you don't do it too often, the additional element of surprise may confuse your enemy. Reversing slowly also gives you more flexibility in steering and timing.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: NECRO-99 on June 26, 2006, 10:44:03 am
And another: How do you guys dispatch Kzer-Za fighters using the Umgah cone? I tried it and those damn fighters just don't go into the cone, no matter from what angle they come.

Kzer-Za Fighters automatically go to the sides of a ship to attack- the Umgah is helpless unless you zip away.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Death 999 on June 26, 2006, 06:24:51 pm
The umgah is hardly helpless against autonomous fighters.

First step, fly away a bit so they approach slowler. Then turn so you're not facing straight backwards, but off to the side a bit. That wipes out one of the sides. Then zip backwards and turn the other way... there goes the other side.

This is best against massed fighters, so it may help to use a little introductory zip to the side so they get closer to each other.

Also, you need to be pretty good with the timing on the zip, because the wing you don't attack first can get some shots in if you dawdle or get greedy trying to kill more of the fighters on the first side.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: nightwrath on June 27, 2006, 02:26:36 pm
Ok, thanks for the tips. Gonna try them sometime. Anyway, I noticed that when zipping towards an Earthling with the cone turned on, I take 2 damage from PDL instead of the normal 1. Anyone else noticed this? Why is this happening?


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: 1ceph on June 29, 2006, 10:40:09 pm
I always thought that in the Alliance Earthling Cruisers were meant to be something like Space Artillery - long range, useless in close combat, not so fast...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Draxas on June 29, 2006, 11:34:23 pm
Practically, yes, that seems pretty likely. However, according to the background story, they're just the best that our engineers could throw together on short notice before the war escalated.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Terrell on June 30, 2006, 05:11:44 am
As far as theme music goes I like the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za (both the original and the remixes),  The Utwig, (Ultimate Embarrasment and Shame Remix), Arilou (most recent remix), the Yehat, and the Shofixti best, though I do like most of the rest of them too.

Best voice Probably the Kzer-za though I do like talking to the Yehat a lot as well.

Worst voice: Utwig (just way too whiny for my taste)

Victory tunes best:  Kzer-za,  Thraddash (remix), Human, Syreen, Androsynth.



Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Holocat on June 30, 2006, 05:13:42 am
Practically, yes, that seems pretty likely. However, according to the background story, they're just the best that our engineers could throw together on short notice before the war escalated.

And let's face it, it's not a bad job, all things considered.  ;D

Since i'm feeling facetious, I'll comment that I like the Kzer-Za and Yehat comm music the most.  Stylish.  The Spathi and Pkunk are next with that irreverant beat, and the starbase music comes next for that industrial feel.

A couple more facetious comments, this time almost on topic!

There are things other than raw numbers that make something easy or hard.  Some of these things can be quite odd.  For me, and for instance:

Spathi:  I have a hard time using this ship's primary weapon, but I find that this is because I have a hard time trying to determine where the exact front of the ship is, particularly when i'm turning it about, this way and that.  it's often not nessisary to use it, and probably unadvisable, but sometimes, you have to.

Kor-Ah:  I can't fight this ship easily... near noon.  Because it's black and with screen glare on top of it it's really hard to see.  ;D


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Gen. Bridge on July 07, 2006, 08:53:02 am
I perfer the Pkunk Fury. It's fast, agile, and a pain in the you-know-where when it revives.
Also, I find it funny that you insult your enemies to recharge your batteries, although the insults could be a bit more colorful.
A techneque I like to use is when you charge to the side of your enemy, let go of the thrust, spin, and let loose.

~Gen. Bridge


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Holocat on July 08, 2006, 06:21:02 am
I hate the fury.  That was another prize ship of one of my opponents in my childhood playing group, which made battling it a chore.  ;D

That brings me up to another point in starcontrol that was problematic;  I only ever found two sets of keys where two players could jam them all down without keyjamming.  It wasn't comfortable, but it was nessisary.  Particularly with this ship, where you often have the thrust, turn, fire and special keys down all at once.

Why?  Early on one of my friends discovered that if he held down his special key, his opponent couldn't turn right.  Eeeeeevil.

The fury was another dueling ship (popular in pkunk vs. pkunk matches because the ressurection threw a lot of doubt to who would win) but unlike avatar dueling I didn't join in.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Draxas on July 10, 2006, 08:06:31 pm
Ugh, I hated the keyjamming effect. Thankfully, we had a setup where you could only keyjam yourself back on our ye olde 486e, but it was still a nuisnace... And as far as that went, the keyjamming combos were different for my friend's computer, and another friend's computer... It seemed to be pretty random, almost as if it were unique to each keyboard (which was, if I recall, how it was described back in the old key configuration utility included with the DOS version).


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on July 10, 2006, 08:40:28 pm
I agree with the comment that it's difficult to tell which
way an Eluder is pointed. Especially when the screen zooms
out.


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Novus on July 11, 2006, 12:19:43 am
It seemed to be pretty random, almost as if it were unique to each keyboard (which was, if I recall, how it was described back in the old key configuration utility included with the DOS version).
PC keyboards have their own microcontroller to handle key scanning and reporting key events to the computer, so you can hook up the keys pretty much any way you like. Most keyboards use a matrix-like structure in which, essentially, voltage is applied to each row of keys in turn and each column is checked. The keys themselves are on the intersections between rows and columns.

The advantage of this is that you don't need a 104-input (or whatever amount of keys you have) microcontroller to check key states, just one with enough outputs to the rows and inputs for the columns (e.g. 6 and 20, respectively). You also don't need anywhere near as much wiring between the keys and the controller. However, by wiring each key individually, one could build a PC-compatible keyboard with no jamming problems whatsoever; it would probably be something like twice as expensive, though, at least (even worse if it isn't mass produced like normal keyboards).


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Holocat on July 11, 2006, 12:23:08 am
If there were more applications that suffered from keyjams, or if keyjams themselves resulted in more horrible consequences (aircraft control systems don't keyjam, for instance) we'd probably have our perfectly wired keyboards.  As it is, keyjamming remains a plausable but very, VERY cheap star control 'tactic.'

It IS kinda funny though...


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: evktalo on July 11, 2006, 04:49:16 pm
Additional USB keyboard helps against keyjam. Spread the word. ;)


Title: Re: Better than banter: OUR single favorite ship
Post by: Culture20 on July 13, 2006, 02:42:36 am
Additional USB keyboard helps against keyjam.
But opens the possibility of further cheating...   ::)