The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Tan on October 17, 2003, 09:20:21 pm



Title: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Tan on October 17, 2003, 09:20:21 pm
First, I love UQM.  I am one of the original Prodigy Online idiots from the Gravis UltraSound forum.  We ALL bought a copy for the native support.  But this isn't a GUS post.

Something I've wanted from the beginning of UQM--disregard if already posted ad nauseum--is a War mode like SC1.  As we all know, UQM isn't a SC2 clone.  It is open territory.  

There are times when I want more than Super Melee and far less than the full game.  I want War.  I want the rotating star field.  I want to mine, colonize, defend, and most of all FIGHT.  

I remember best the Total War scenario, with a full fleet of ships, each with a star base.  The goal was to mine and build more ships...or knock out the enemy base so they couldn't.  All along the way, finding the odd bit of Precursor  technology.

For all that, a practice mode with Professor Zog telling all about the race and the ships for the uninitiated.  (It was "Zog", right?)  Just one-on-one, same two races, over and over again.  This could be simulated with Super Melee, probably, but it would take work to do it each time.

So, I'm saying, include the SC1 features in future releases of UQM.  I'd love a networkable War mode :)

Tan


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Death 999 on October 17, 2003, 09:42:18 pm
Local war mode might be doable. However, it isn't in the plan for 1.0.

However, the current battle architecture is made without networking in mind. Certain team members have said it would not be insanely hard to alter... IF you happen to have like net lag on the order of 1 millisecond. Anything other than an industrial strength LAN and there is basically no hope without rewriting the engine.


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Spurk on October 17, 2003, 09:46:54 pm
I too would like to see an SC1 fullgame, but I don't expect that to happen until UQM goes 1.0, and even then I doubt the core developers will rush to implement it. It will probably be written by some other people as a separate extension to UQM.

But it would be awesome to be able to play with SC2 ships. I can see it now "Orz retrieves crew."


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Tan on October 17, 2003, 09:48:39 pm
Well...the netcode isn't really a big deal for me.  However, Local War would be a nice offering for the end product.

I fully understand that this is not a 1.0 feature :)  It's pure blue sky.

Tan


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Lukipela on October 19, 2003, 07:59:32 pm
There was actually a discussion on this a while back, you might find it interesting to read through this (http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1046446680;start=0)

It would be amazing if implemented... Question is if anyone wtih sufficient coding skills will...


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: guesst on October 20, 2003, 09:30:30 pm
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There was actually a discussion on this a while back, you might find it interesting to read through this (http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1046446680;start=0)

It would be amazing if implemented... Question is if anyone wtih sufficient coding skills will...


Ah, this is still one of my favorate threads. I mean, it's long burried and dead, but it feels like just yesterday I was resurecting it again. Unfortunately it turned too technical and I think that may have killed it. Ah well.

What do you all think of a series SC1-Full Game (TW:TACT) like missions that progress the story? Add in fog of war and missions objectives more than "Kill Badguy" and I think there might be a market for this.

However, I'd change the name to "UQM Tactics", just to ride the whole Tactics craze. It wouldn't be inacurate either. SC1's full game was largely tactics. (And use UQM instead of StarControl to make it all okay with Atari.)


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Lukipela on October 20, 2003, 10:00:32 pm
That's a good idea guesst. I take it you mean sort of a mission based system then, with each mission progressing the story? It would be quite unlike any SC we've played so far, but I have a hunch that it might make for a really good game. And of course, if you could fit in the idea from the old thread about peopl being able to design missions themselves, then why not ppl being able to make campaigns? that'd add some long term flavor....


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: guesst on October 21, 2003, 09:08:27 pm
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It would be quite unlike any SC we've played so far, but I have a hunch that it might make for a really good game.


Not too unlike any game we've seen. The point is that it'd be more like SC1 than SC2 was. I find it odd that SC2 was such a departure from SC1's formula. Yes, the melee interaction was the same, but that was it. However, it did sell well, so who's to complain.

I too think that some hybred middle ground between SC1 and SC2 would make the perfect sequel and satisfy a gaming market looking for a unique blend of stragety and action. I will probably wet myself if I ever see it happen, tho.


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Spurk on October 21, 2003, 10:33:48 pm
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I too think that some hybred middle ground between SC1 and SC2 would make the perfect sequel and satisfy a gaming market looking for a unique blend of stragety and action. I will probably wet myself if I ever see it happen, tho.

Is it just me, or is that exactly what SC3 was? You interacted with races, a la SC2. You had missions, objectives, and a storyline like SC2 had. But you also have instantaneous transport like SC1, as well as colony establishment and precursor artifacts. Maybe it's just me, but SC3 was that hybrid.

I had once thought to myself that if I were ever going to design a Star Control sequel, I'd make it superficially like SC3, with a better event engine, all of the SC1/2 ships, and a better story.


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: player1 on October 22, 2003, 01:43:27 am
The probelm with SC3 was that colony mangment was pretty poor.

You could easily beat the game just by keeping starting colonies and ships they produce.


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Lukipela on October 22, 2003, 02:45:23 am
Quote

Is it just me, or is that exactly what SC3 was? You interacted with races, a la SC2. You had missions, objectives, and a storyline like SC2 had. But you also have instantaneous transport like SC1, as well as colony establishment and precursor artifacts. Maybe it's just me, but SC3 was that hybrid.


Unless I understood guesst completely wrong (and feel free to correct me if I have), what he was taking about was something more mission based. Sort of, finish one mission, continue on to the next? with some sort of story segments in between. in a way like Warcraft, only on a tactical starmap, with melee, and with story segments in between.

SC3 on the other hand, played seamlessly. There were no "missions" if you will. It was more like SC2 with you and your ship in the centre, not a large tactical battle with several taskforces. Also, it had a lot of timed events, which could mess things up pretty well. these would be easier to control in a mission based (scenario based?) game.


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: guesst on October 22, 2003, 05:29:47 am
Quote
Unless I understood guesst completely wrong (and feel free to correct me if I have), what he was taking about was something more mission based. Sort of, finish one mission, continue on to the next? with some sort of story segments in between. in a way like Warcraft, only on a tactical starmap, with melee, and with story segments in between.



Bingo! Yeah, you got it Luk. SC3 was not a hybredization. SC3 was an abomination. I do not think "make the full map a 3d rotatable starmap that actually doesn't do anything whatsoever for gameplay" is hybreding SC1 & SC2.

Warcraft is a good example of what I was talking about. StarCraft would be a better one with paused in-game conversations to move the story durring game, not just between missions. Perhaps, even make these interactions conversation trees with multple branching possibilities for how the mission could go.

Ah, sweet bliss just thinking about it.


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Spurk on October 22, 2003, 07:45:30 am
My mistake. I guess I was the one who missed the mark. Thanks for explaining it for me.

Quote
SC3 was not a hybredization. SC3 was an abomination.

Well, I stand by my original assertion that it was a hybridization, just not the kind you were thinking of.


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: mike guthrie on November 27, 2003, 08:00:11 am
well this doesn't follow the course of conversation, but i think it's inline with the topic...

How about a way to play melee with the vindicater... choosing the modules you would like on it... not the sucky one from sc3. ???

Mike Guthrie
Wile E. Coyote
io74@mailandnews.com

Life is a journey... Dang I missed my exit!


Title: Re: Something missing from Melee
Post by: Mormont on November 28, 2003, 05:26:02 am
Tan, I've got good news for you: I'm working on an extension that will have the SC1 strategy mode with SC2 ships! A few posts down there's a status update on it, and a couple of pages back is a more in-depth discussion.