The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: meep-eep on December 30, 2003, 07:50:31 am



Title: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: meep-eep on December 30, 2003, 07:50:31 am
Directly from the source code, here are all the little facts related to crew cost:
  • Crew costs 3 resources at the start of the game.
  • When you've recruited 1000 crew or more (minus the amount you've returned), the crew cost is raised by 2. If the total later comes below 1000 (by returning crew), the crew cost goes back down by 2.
    There is no actual limit to the amount of crew you can buy; the commander mentions that there are "almost 2000 highly-motivated, skilled professionals aboard this starbase" available to you, but appearantly there are also an infinite number of the unmotivated, unskilled and amateur kind at your service.
  • When you've made an alliance with the shofixti, the crew cost goes down by 2. Also, the number of crew recruited is set to 0 and will never be raised (or lowered) again.
  • When you've sold crew to the Druuge, but no more than 100, there's no change in the crew cost. The commander talks about "rumors".
  • When you've sold more than 100 crew in total to the Druuge, but no more than 250, the crew cost goes up by 7. The commander talks about "evidence".
  • When you've sold more than 250 crew in total to the Druuge, the crew cost goes up by 15. This is in addition to the cost increase when you crossed the 100 crew boundary. The commander talks about you being a "heinous slave-trader".

If you do your shopping at the Druuge with crew as semi-hard currency, here's the price list:
  • Mauler ships: 100 crew a piece
    The ship is worth 1700 resources and comes with 14 crew.
  • Artifacts (Wimbli's trident, Glowing Rod or Rosy Sphere): 100 crew a piece
  • Fuel: 10 per 10 units of fuel
    The normal fuel cost is 20 resources per unit, or 10 Credits at a Melnorme trader.



Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: FalconMWC on January 03, 2004, 12:04:35 am
That is a interesting piece of information as of all your Star control facts. However I have a wuestion that might make "Star Control II fact #5" Here it is: When battle a any Kohr-ah or Ur-Quan ship it shows as "Death 911 or Lord 999". Is there something in the code that randomizes the numbers because it seems to me that 999 and 911 are the most common ones - appearing about 1/20 of the time on my computer. So - Were does the numbers truly come from? (If it is randomized then it will come form my CPU's clock - but I don't think it is randomized)


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Nic. on January 03, 2004, 01:38:05 am
Captains' names are stored in text files in the content/racename directory (e.g., content/blackurq/blatext.txt, content/urquan/urqtext.txt), 16 names per race, and one of he names is simply picked at random when the ship is added to your fleet.  So the pool of candidates is significantly smaller than 1 to 999.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Chrispy on January 03, 2004, 01:45:06 am
they are not ever number up to 999, they are only some random ones in random order. u can find these listes here
http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/sc2/captains.shtml

this greatly increases the chances for any of the numbers on this list


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on January 04, 2004, 02:21:47 pm
It is just to make "an illusion". I remember a story about our Navy when we had our first ship we called it " (something) 22" so the enemy will think we have another 21 ships...


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Michael Martin on January 04, 2004, 10:36:55 pm
Sun Microsystems did something similar with their first computer (making its first machine have a serial number with a bunch of zeroes, then "16").

The real reason for it, I think, is just that all alien captain names are from a lookup table.  By just having 20 or so random numbers in a list, UQM treats the Ur-Quan just like it treats the 20 or so random science fiction references for the Earthling Captains.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: FalconMWC on January 05, 2004, 12:26:11 am
Boy - Did I ever forget to check the code before I posted that question! - oops! Anyway, it would be cool to have a randomizer that picks a number between 1 and 999 and uses it for only the game - not melee. Then when you fight another Lord or Death the randomizer will do the same thing exept it won't pick the numbers that it has already picked. Once all the numbers have been picked the cycle will start over again. Then when you play Lord 999 - The ship will be REALLY easy - If you pick Lord 1 it will be really hard - maybe it can have a special weapon.   :-/  As neat as it is it will be really hard to turn from a idea to a working aspect in the game. o-well - I still think it is a neat idea though.....


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Chrispy on January 05, 2004, 12:27:35 am
it would be cool to have 999 names for each race.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: FalconMWC on January 05, 2004, 12:49:05 am
It sure would - but I don't want to come up with all of those names!!!! Unless it was like - human 128 human 382 etc. - but that would be no fun ;)


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Chrispy on January 05, 2004, 12:54:02 am
i dont know, i think lots of people would gladly send in name suggestions for lots of races. some are easy, like melnorme, and kohr-ah, and androsynths....
we prolly wouldnt get up to 999 but it would add a certain something to the game.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Ishai Bar on January 05, 2004, 03:28:07 am
I know for a fact (since I've downloaded and used several of these for RPG purposes) that there is a plethora of programs out there that randomize names using set formulas for many different kinds of races, languages, even fantasy settings. I've recently downloaded one called "NameMage", part of a pack of RPG-assistant programs, that can randomize names in about 20 or more different forms, including Dwarven, Orc, Greek, Norse, ETC. Maybe such a program could be included into the code for UQM? Race names in SC2 have some sort of logic for each race, don't they?


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Chrispy on January 05, 2004, 04:11:02 am
that would only really work for a couple races. id like to c it randomise chensesu names


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Ishai Bar on January 05, 2004, 04:28:31 am
Actually, it's not that hard. Even Chenjesu names have some sort of logic behind them (mainly - use Z's wherever possible!  ;) ) In fact, none of us can actually SPEAK chenjeseze, so would ANYONE know the difference between a human-invented and program-invented Chejesu name? Put enough Z's in, and who could POSSIBLY tell you that it isn't a correct name? Think about it.
Anyhow, check the program out, and you'll see what I mean.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Chrispy on January 05, 2004, 04:57:17 am
the moorcock make good druuge names. The minoan make good utwig names. I have 999 different ones too. A problem is they arnt unique to the game.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Ishai Bar on January 08, 2004, 12:29:20 am
I didn't say you'd have to use THAT program. Obviously, it would be a better idea to program something similar that goes into UQM and uses new formulas that match SC races, not the ones in NameMage. I agree with you - SC is unique and has to stay unique. Otherwise what's the freaking point?  ;D


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Chrispy on January 08, 2004, 12:30:56 am
kinda off topic, but I think it falls in with the unique thing.

I love how every planet has all those stats. and they all are acurate with each other.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Ron Midthun on January 15, 2004, 05:28:52 am
Check out the Everchanging Book of Names.
http://ebon.pyorre.net/
It allows you to create your own dictionaries to make whatever types of names you desire.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: KarmaComa on January 23, 2004, 11:56:35 pm
Quote

When you've made an alliance with the shofixti, the crew cost goes down by 2. Also, the number of crew recruited is set to 0 and will never be raised (or lowered) again.
So... if you get the Shofixti before you use 1000, can you become a heinous slave trader for 1RU/crew?

Cause that's a pretty good way to make RU! :)

Serious question, though.

I'm playing the game through for the first time in about 10 years, and I've totally forgotten everything about it!  It's great!  Talk about replay value!


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Death 999 on January 24, 2004, 02:47:31 am
Quote
So... if you get the Shofixti before you use 1000, can you become a heinous slave trader for 1RU/crew?


No, that is a different counter than the number of crew recruited (read the original post). If you're a major slave trader, crew costs will be high despite high supply.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: drkstrjry on March 21, 2004, 09:22:08 am
Not sure if this is the right place, being pretty  much a newbie to this game, but I can't seem to figure out how to load crew.  I'm merely at the beginning - exhausted my 1st crew in Sol, can't seem to figure out how to load more from the starbase - can't seem to do from any of the screens.  Help!  Thanx!


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Cronos on March 21, 2004, 05:11:47 pm
Go to the fleet thingy, select your ship (or the skeletal wireframe of your ship) and press enter. Then, press the UP key and the crew will rise and deduct the necessary number of RU.

Congratulations, you've learned how to load up on crew :)


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: drkstrjry on March 21, 2004, 08:20:27 pm
D'Oh - I figured it out as soon as I finished that post - thanx!  Just takes some toying around with, as usual!


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Terminator on March 22, 2004, 05:08:36 am
Quote


No, that is a different counter than the number of crew recruited (read the original post). If you're a major slave trader, crew costs will be high despite high supply.


If u become a major slave trader after u bring back the shofixi from the brink of extinction and before 1000 crew expire ur crew cost stays at 1 RU even if u use the drugge. I'll double check anyway.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: elShoggotho on February 26, 2005, 03:47:31 am
As I remember, you can put your own lists into NameMage. Just try it!


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Art on February 26, 2005, 10:05:18 am
Indeed, AFAIK, unlike human starbase crew, the Shofixti have no compunction about being sacrificed for the cause to Druuge slave-traders. They're used to being sacrificed for things.

I wouldn't like randomized names; usually it's too obvious by what simple rules the names are generated, and it's more fun to have names that *mean* something, particularly in the course of a normal game where a newbie is unlikely to see more than 20 of any race -- it creates the illusion of greater depth, that every captain name is a reference to something. (At least for races like the humans and Syreen.)

Even the numbers are "evocative" numbers; you have numbers like 999, 13, and 666 showing up, which is cooler than seeing tons and tons of 342s and 734s and 108s.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Arne on February 27, 2005, 05:53:30 am
I think that even with 1000 names you have a 50% chance of seeing a duplicate after just 38 encounters.

I think it's sort of overkill, a generic title would work for me, like Spathi Captain.
A name could be generated/extracted for special characters, or if the player asks specifically.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Art on February 27, 2005, 10:30:15 am
Well, this is moot -- you're not *going* to see more than 20 or so of a given species' captains in a well-played game anyway. (As in a game where you don't purposely attack a guarded planet and keep on fighting it.)

In such a situation having a list of unique, interesting names seems like a plus, not a minus.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Novus on February 27, 2005, 03:27:29 pm
Quote
I think that even with 1000 names you have a 50% chance of seeing a duplicate after just 38 encounters.

Unless you keep track of which names have been used previously, and for whom, which wouldn't be too hard to implement (I think).


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Death 999 on February 28, 2005, 10:56:21 pm
And... when you reach the 1000th ship? I'd just leave it random. Especially when you consider...

"I'm not James Tiberius Kirk, I'm Louis Xavier Kirk."


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Kizor, passwordstilllost on March 01, 2005, 08:25:46 pm
I wouldn't call humans (or the members of most other races) semi-hard currency. More like soft and kinda squishy.

Yes, yes, that was bad.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Novus on March 01, 2005, 09:59:45 pm
Quote
And... when you reach the 1000th ship? I'd just leave it random. Especially when you consider...

"I'm not James Tiberius Kirk, I'm Louis Xavier Kirk."

That sounds like graceful degradation to me.

Alternatively, you could limit the amount of different ships/fleets for a race to about a 1000, and assign a unique captain to each one. In the nineties, this would have been a waste of memory, but keeping track of the position and captain name for 10000 ships shouldn't require more than a few hundred KB. You could also consider the position of ships you haven't seen for a while undefined, which would save a lot of memory.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Arne on March 02, 2005, 12:51:51 am
Just storing a random seed could save memory.


Title: Re: Star Control II fact #4 - Crew cost
Post by: Defender on June 14, 2006, 06:16:53 am
MODS-

Sticky This Please