The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

There seem to be a LOT of threads that have (mostly off-topic) ideas for a sequel, if one ever gets made.  How about putting them in their own thread?  

IF and WHEN UQM is finished, what kind of sequel would you like to see made?  Assuming the same game engine as now, what kind of events would there be?

The Chmmr: The Chmmr all but said that their new merged species was dangerously unstable.  Could this mean insanity, or just pain and distraction?  What could this mean for the Alliance?

The Ur-Quan: The Ur-Quan have been defeated, but not eradicated.  Many in the Alliance want the Ur-Quan completely gone, and are willing to cheat and lie to destroy them.  On the flip side of things, the Ur-Quan have to face their own Doctrinal Struggle - perhaps with a new doctrine?  Meanwhile, the rest of the galaxy is full of slave-shielded planets that must be found and restored - and possibly other Hierarchy thralls in other sectors!  Go the other direction and look for the remnants of civilizations...

The Yuri, the Drall, the Mael-Num and the Taalo: Only the Taalo (and the Melnorme?) showed up in any way in Star Control 2 - but there were tantalizing hints about both races that could be more fully fleshed out.  ARE the Melnorme the Mael-Num, and if so, what ARE their "potentially ominous long-term plans" they refer to?  Are the Taalo really dead, or are the Orz hints about them "playing in *time*" true?  Can they be revived, or contacted somehow?  There are still the Yuri and the Drall's burned home planets to find, and the original homeworld of the Dnyarri - and Ur-Quan.  For that matter, how about time travelling back into the past somehow to stop the Dynarri from taking over the Sentient Milieu?

The Orz: There was a lot of potential in this other-dimensional Intelligence.  They said that soon we would be connected - like the Androsynth had been - and that they could pull us into other levels, like they had tried to do with them.  Since we HAVE to ally with them in the game to get the Taalo device (er, spoiler, er, oops) what does this mean for the future?  

The Ilwrath and Thraddash: Are they dead, or just greatly diminished in power?  

The Shofixti: While the Yehat may have adapted smoothly to their new, peaceful queen, how do their uplifted children, the Shofixti, feel about this change?  What could friction between the two mean?  And meanwhile, the Shofixti desperately need a new home planet before they outbreed the starbase's available space...

The Mycon: These organic robots still have a purpose, as twisted as it may be.  What happens if they accomplish it?  Or can they be fixed (ala Star Control 3)?  And what the HECK is Juffo-Wup?  

The New Alliance of Free Stars: There must be a lot of friction here, as described in the opening of Star Control 3.  How do the victorious members of the New Alliance treat the Hierarchy thralls?  Would they give them votes?  Would it be like the aftereffects of the U.S. civil war?  Lots of potential here.

I don't think here is the right place to post ideas for a sequel. There is another project called "timewarp", a sequel to sc2 which replaces sc3.

Correction: Technically, you don't have to ally with the Orz to get the Taalo shield. You can fight the guards of the shield world to get it, as well. Though I've never actually done this myself, since, for me, it makes no sense to add problems.

Though I may have something or other to contribute (having done a lot of writing in my youth inspired by SC2), I much prefer simply reading these topics.

I'm sorry, I assumed that it was okay because of all the other threads that had ideas...where can I find this Timewarp project?

You can post here if you want, but if you post there you might get your ideas in the game(not that I know much about what they are planning...). Errr  I think it is www.time-warp.com?

That leads to an online comic book store.  On the other hand, www.timewarp.com leads to an online clothing store, which is MUCH more useful...um...wait.  Okay, I'm still lost.

I think Here (http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/timewarp/story.shtm) will be the right place to get to timewarp.

The website did not seem clear - does timewarp have their timeline together??? All I see is the end of the Ur-quan Masters and it says:

"You must be wondering about TimeWarp's plot by now aren't you?
Well we aren't going to tell you anything yet! Har Har Har! TimeWarp's adventure game will be developed as a full fledge alternative sequel to Star Control 2: The Ur-Quan Masters. "  

If it is not out now when are they suppose to bring the full game out (Storyline and all).  I don't care if it is the beta version.

"Timewarp" project is the replacement for sc3. It is a similar project to uqm, "Reviving" the game. The diffrence is that in "TimeWarp" they replace a "bad" part of sc(sc3) and they are doing it from scratch. Meaning, they don't have a plot right now. If you want to effect on the plot go to their forums and suggest stuff.
Uqm on the other hand, just "remix" the game. No new plot, no new engine just making it better.

Actaully, those on the "team" will tell you that they have a story line, with undivulged secret secrets from straight from interviews with FF & PR3. However, you're right that the timewarp engine has no way to impliment them at the moment, what with Timewarp in a constant state of not-yet-ness. So those secret secrets will remain enigmas, wrapped in mystery, lovingly hidden in the unseen depths of secrecry.

Glad to know...You talk like you know something, don't you?

im not very impressed by the fact that they havnt released anything about the full game.
the melee has developped nicely though.

The computer AI sucks big time. At least they have multiplayer session!

all the new ships suck. another reason why im not looking forward to the full game

Yeah, that they have secret secrets. That's all I know. A while ago I suggested that they go public with their secret secrets because, quite frankly, they weren't doing anything with me and I got an asertive "Oh yes we are." In the end, however, what they were doing with their secrets were keeping them secret.

Believe me, if I knew any secrets, I'd tell you. I'm of the opinion that "here's something to chew on" and spilling the beans is a better way to have some thing happen than shouting "make us an engine, but we won't tell you what the engine will need to do, and we'll show you our secrets," into the void. But that's just me.



That's because they don't have a programmer who can make the full game. The closest they've gotten is the GeoMan missions, which are pretty good when they work. But there's no real story there.

I also think the team lacks a writer to make the story in SC2 fashon. I'm afraid anything they put out may end up rivling SC3 for suckatude.

[begin rude block]
Oh, wait. Here comes Culture20 to set the record straight with "Sorry, Guesst, but we do have a story, programmer, and full game on the way." Yeah, I believe that. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'll believe it when I see SOMETHING. ANYTHING. So far all you've got is a melee engine. The GeoMan campaigns are nice, but the campaigns them self feel more like playing a stripped down version of X-Wing than StarControl.

What do I want? Good writing and something to show for it.
[/end rude block]

Sorry TW team. I know you're doing you best. But don't tell us what your doing. Prove it. I've follow TW for years and YEARS, and all I've seen is talk, talk, talk. GeoMan's mission are a start.

The hate between uqm forums and Tw is powerful... hehe. Damn TW sucks...

the melee is awsome exept for the ai.

and several ships...

I haven't played TW in quite awhile. I hated almost every new ship and the melee didn't feel right. Perhaps it has gotten better, but I remember there was no scaling in and out. All you could see was your ship and some arrows pointing at the enemy ship.

you can change the point of view.... Try similar view like the default, but a little bit more far.

Let me state for the record... again.

I LIKE Timewarp. Multiplayer online SC2 melee, how can anyone on these boards not like it?

Don't go and restate your reasons. That was a question in rhetoric.

What I don't like about Timewarp is the fact that is does not have, and is looking like it will not ever have, a full game. I also don't like how for the years I've followed the project I've heard on numerious occasions "Oh, it's on the way. Just you watch." I'm getting tired of it.

But I do like Timewarp. Gob, yeah. Geoman mission, yeah. Online play, yeah, yeah.

You do not need to use the new ships. When I first played it I found that it zoomed in way to much, and zoomed out way too much, but GOB changed my views.

:)  I'm not really a TW teammember, but I seem to be the most vocal advocate on these boards.

Same here, but I staunchly refuse any attempts to get me to know the storyline.  I actually want to play the game fresh.

Unfortunately, most people in TW's infancy voted to _not_ know the story, which made writing it the province of a chosen few who tended not to agree with one another.  They settled on one writer amongst them to write a clear and concice plot (might have been better for multiple plots, then vote for the best; hindsight 20/20).  Supposedly, he's done.  Like I said, I don't want proof because that would spoil my enjoyment...

 Ouch.  I hope the word "can" in the first sentence takes into account your statement about not knowing what the engine needs to do.  Vanguard was also a nice looking approximation of full-game mode when it still worked (even though it was really a first attempt at a RT strategy).  Also, Yurand has a very rudimentary conversation system working.  It's actually easier to code a full-game system than you think;  just not as glamorous as the melee...

Any Star Control fan can create a story that doesn't suck like SC3.  SC3's downfall was that the designers specifically ignored the SC fan that was assigned to them as their SC expert (Warlock).  Making it match people's expectations is a different story;  Some people want the Chmmr to go crazy and be the main villains, some want Earth-Gov to be the villians (maybe a McBride descendant involved), and even others want Orz to be the main villains.  That doesn't include people who think that the Ur-Quan races should join forces, that the Druuge should use the mycon egg case to create an infinite supply of slaves for their maulers, or that The Shofixti Empire should be contained...  ::)

Hrmm, same here actually, although if you've followed it that long, then you're certainly aware of the internal struggles that Team Beige has had over the years.  As a fellow outsider to the story-process, I still see their selection of a single person to write the story as a great leap out of the quagmire of comittee.

Conclusion: Sc3 sucks.
Another conclusion: this line is always true: "Any sc fan created game" > "sc3"

but sc3 ignored the starcontrol fan in their team.

He is not saying a fan-created game LEADS to SC3, he is saying any fan-created game is better than SC3.

I should have know that :-[

For a plot idea there will be a large portion of Cruisers who broke through the Ur-Quan Formation and formed a more powerful ship called the Crusader(not the one from Timewarp), and this Colony is located south of this part of the galaxy, and as the Ur-Quan were busy with the doctrinal conflict, they never noticed. The hero of UQM 2 will be someone born on this colony, and has discovered a Precursor Battleship on the Moon of a Gas Giant in that system. There will be a new race called Tha'rakken, who will wipe out the Kohr-Ah later in the game and pretty much have the submit or die attitude of the Kzer-Za,and a race of miltaristic humans who originated from the Star System Aravis, another system south of the UQM Part of the Galaxy. The Hero will have to drive colonize and mine planets to gain resources to build ships, starbases, etc. , and the main goal will be to drive the Tha'rakken out of this region of space.

For a plot idea there will be a large portion of Cruisers who broke through the Ur-Quan Formation and formed a more powerful ship called the Crusader(not the one from Timewarp), and this Colony is located south of this part of the galaxy, and as the Ur-Quan were busy with the doctrinal conflict, they never noticed. The hero of UQM 2 will be someone born on this colony, and has discovered a Precursor Battleship on the Moon of a Gas Giant in that system. There will be a new race called Tha'rakken, who will wipe out the Kohr-Ah later in the game and pretty much have the submit or die attitude of the Kzer-Za,and a race of miltaristic humans who originated from the Star System Aravis, another system south of the UQM Part of the Galaxy. The Hero will have to drive colonize and mine planets to gain resources to build ships, starbases, etc. , and the main goal will be to drive the Tha'rakken out of this region of space.

We got it in the first time...

Okay, so maybe not _all_ fan created plots are better...

This has all off-topic I guess? But I like to whine about Timewarp too so ... every new ship sucks except Kterbi (that's an Umgah captain name!!) Saber. It has some real ideas. Hear me; sentient beings living on a _star_. That would be so SC2-like.  ;D

About the plot idea ... well we can always talk, yes? And you never know if Paul or Fred lurk around here all the time, checking what people would like to see etc. ;) But that'd be daydreaming ...

Everyone knows the Chmmr are the Futuristic Spacefaring Knights who save every race from evil-doers and jadda jadda and for some stupid reasons humans must always be with them at the top. But the bad point is you can't find any other race that qualify to this job.

Sidenote: I want to see a sentient race develop on Delta Lyncis. ;)

The Utwig seem to be doing a good job once they get their Ultron.  Of course, they're less like Knights, and more like Templars or Asian fighting Monks.  The Ultron guides them to the betterment of other races... those races need not always understand or appreciate the immediate outcome.

Hi, guys, glad to see all the interest in Timewarp.  There seems to be more comments about TW in this thread than the engine one, so I'll add comments about full-game TW stuff here.  Incidently, feel free to post in TW's actual forums:

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~timewarp/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi
http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~starcontrol/boards/timewarp/

I've been experimenting with some full-game code for TW, using an intermediate scripting langauge called Lua.  Right now, these are just experiments, the decision to use anything other than C/C++ hasn't been made yet.  One major problem is that none of us know Lua very well, I only started seriously poking around with it about a month ago.  If someone else knows Lua and wants to help out, that'd be much appreciated.  Right now, I'm trying to focus on the engine, not plot per se, although of course ideas are always welcome in the forums.  

Also, Geoman has been working well on his missions etc, and the rest of the team continues to contribute code to the project.  

Anyhow, so progress is being made on a full game in Timewarp.  As for any kind of timeline, well, to use the standard open-source answer, it'll be ready when it's ready. :)

timewarp seems set on ressurecting races. id like to c the thraddash, ilwrath, androsynth, mmrhn-mhnm and chensesu stay dead, and most of both ur-quan to die. Also, have some new ideas, like sc3 tried and failed. Not another precurser ship and more mining... and dont break the ultron again.

Wait, the Ilwrath and Thraddash die? They didn't in my game... I guess  the Ilwrath go attack the Thraddash, but the game ended before they actually got there.

they both died in my game... i think

both die if you send the illwrath on them.

what i want to see is fred and paul pull a sequel out of the "ur-quan matsers" name...ie (ur-quan masters II). and make it the best game of 2005. is that too much to ask? cause, i think its the only way we all would accept a story/sequel. it has to be written by its creators. then and only then would it be worthy.

~DEFIANT

Is making the best game of 2005 (only two years away, don't you forget) too much to ask? Well, yeah, probably.

Sorry to doublepost, but I had some plot ideas:

-The Alliance is formed into a formal governing body with a Council at the head. It initially consists of the Chmmr, Yehat, Zoq-Fot-Pik, Earthlings, Utwig, Orz, Syreen, Shofixti, and Supox. The Umgah and VUX remain wary of the New Alliance.

-Thraddash (who survived in my game, I'm going to pretend like they did overall, anyhow) establish Culture Twenty. It quickly falls to the Alliance-friendly Culture Twenty-One, based on Pkunk ideas.

-The Pkunk Dynasty of the Yehat is a very influential new member of the Alliance Council, as evidenced by my above point.

-The Ur-Quan are forced into new negotiations by the Alliance where they establish the new "Canon of All Time" doctrine, which is essentially a softened version of the PoNaF that allows species to voluntarily leave the Hirearchy if they so desire. Naturally, they all do. The Hirearchy is allowed into the Alliance on a probationary basis.

-The Slylandro with the help of the Alliance (particularly Chmmr, who after all have the knowledge of the Chenjesu and Mmrnmhrm) construct their first actual starships and develop a method of recording their history chants. They essentially act as record keepers for the Alliance from that point onward.

-The Ilwrath, steered from their course against the Thraddash shortly after the Battle of Sa-Matra, are exiled from the sector.

-The Melnorme mysteriously disappear after observing the first meeting of the new Alliance Council.

-The Council votes to break all slave-shields because of their nature as an emblem of the old Ur-Quan Tyranny (as the old, pre-Canon-of-All-Time Hirerachy is generally known by this time). Thus, the Spathi are forced out of hiding. They don't like this too much but are calmed down by the assignment of a permanent Alliance guard over Spathiwa to protect them from "The Ultimate Evil."

-As it turns out, the Spathi were right concerning "The Ultimate Evil," it shows up on the heels of its Mycon terraformers sometime later. Some new species enters the galaxy, perhaps called the Juffo. The Juffo need a radically different kind of enviroment for their insane expansionistic plans, which is what the Mycon were supposed to do in the first place...

-...but not all is lost. Also re-entering the sector are the Hhonil-er (as I call them, just a working title), an ancient species which was familiar with living Precursors. The Hhonil-er sent the Mmrnmhrm into the sector years ago to prepare for their coming. When they arrive they immediately explain that a great number of species will soon be converging on this part of space, most tantalizingly "the heirs of your Precursors," all coming to reclaim worlds inhabited by their terraforming projects or biology experiments.

-The Alliance must deal with the various Incoming Groups (besides the two one-species units detailed above) as they enter the galaxy and prevent the Juffo from having their way.

-There are rumors of Androsynth scouts again in certain parts of the galaxy... just because the Orz dragged them down to *below* doesn't mean they can't still exist...

-The Druuge side with an Incoming Group (probably not the Hhonil-er or Juffo) in hopes of profiting off their seemingly endless supply of slaves. Thus, they become a "bad guy" for much of the game.

-The Shofixti set up their new homeworld on a planet somewhere in the Gorno constellation. (Sorry, I can't remember where the life-bearing worlds were...)

-The Umgah and VUX both make declarations to the effect that they will maintain their long-desired independance from the council unless the situation with the Incoming Groups becomes too dire.

-So the galaxy is at a short time of peace... at least while they try and weather the storm of the Incoming Groups. The Alliance Council at the start of the game consists of Chmmr, Yehat, Zoq-Fot-Pik, Earthlings, Utwig, Orz, Thraddash, Syreen, Shofixti, Supox, Slylandro, Spathi and Ur-Quan (probationary).

i have some really random idea that could be implemented, but no real set story idea.

-the syreen and the earthlings have merged before the game starts, you later find out that the syreen used to be humans that the ariloo brought to syra as an experiment. this has no real bearing, it just kinda adds depth.

-id like to see the orz turn evil

-the pkunk kinda disappear within the yehat, cus they have less strong genetic meterial, so their 'powers' are lost. this means take about the pkunks resurection and special abiltiy, and maybe give it more crew, and faster dinamo

-id like to c the chmmr die. their too tecknologically advanced.

-maybe you find the whole precurser thing that the ultron belongs to, and you have to do some wacky quest to get the ultron from the utwig.

-the game should start with the korh-ah and kzer-za dead

I had this really good idea for a plot. Ok, here goes.

Hyperspace breaks down one day, so you build another starship and travel the stars with this thing called a "warp bubble." Anyhow, you gather some races and fly off to this strange galaxy full of the dumbest races to ever exist. All the races get lost, so you spend some time finding them, building up resources, making new bases. You also find some other empire (this is where the stupid other races come together) that also has an identical ship with the "warp bubble" so they can fly around too. This whole time you get to do stupid quests (like fix the ultron.... AGAIN!!!) and find out what really happened to the Precursors. In the end, you have this really crappy battle against a bunch of weak ships and save the galaxy by mixing blood samples of a few races.... THE END  ::)

How's that for a story?

i like that one. tell it again ACE, tell it again! it sound like heap full of fun! ::)


~DEFIANT

-Save the Faz, finally. How long have they been there anyways? The first line should probably be "What the hell took you so long?!?"

-Orz should definately be somehow evil. Because they are. Really. You don't know if they've already captured a whole dimension (Õ_o) and move to another etc. Or then they just drunk a little too much of that liquid (it's ethanol = alcohol)

-More information about Supox. And more supox anyways. Not as salad though.

-I want the darned Delta Lyncis to have a sentient race that is about to launch satellite to it's orbit. Though how have these sentient beings survived when the mad beast was on the loose? Let's say this sentient race is just superb. :)

-Orz having a "zoo" in their dimension, consisting many many many races. Including Burvixese, Gg, Taalo etc.

-I want the Arilou to get dead already. They're creepy.

-TW still has that one race I like a lot; Kterbi. You can think of the rest.

how about the ariloo explane some stuff right before the orz kill them.

On the above idea:
How about we have to fight the Orz plot for word domination? "The Ur-Quan Masters II: The Orz Plot." And the Orz have a whole slew of things they can do that we don't know about yet... including perhaps bringing some of their friends in from *below*?

Part of game should include getting better translators so we can finally ask the Orz very specific questions. Obviously the Arliou would play a large role in this plot... *campers* can't destroy *many bubbles* without more information.



And, uh, who are the Faz? Just curious. And I thought the Burxivese were destroyed by the Kohr-ah, so they're really gone.

id prefer it if the mycon were the main enamy. the orz would play more of a kohr-ah role. the force seperate from the good and bad, that just want everything dead.

There is plenty of room for multiple enemies. However, I can't very well see making the Mycon the main enemy, since a single Arilou, Syreen, Pkunk, Thraddash, Zoq-Fot-Pik, Yehat, Utwig, Chmmr, Ur-Quan, Kohr-Ah, or Spathi could destroy a battle group of them, with a little practice. Unless all of these ships are unavailable, they will be at worst an ancillary enemy.

Here is a crazy idea, but why not make the sequal pick up right where Ur-Quan Masters leaves off.  Perhaps even in that same year. The idea would be to wage war directly on the Kohr-Ah, perhaps make a treaty with the Ur-Quan...

Some side plots might include fighting off a VUX invasion force.

Also, I think everyone wants to fight off some Mycon, right? Put an end to their deep-children business.

Having the Orz push their plan (whatever it is). Maybe have the Orz attack the ZotFotPik. Thus forcing the "Hero" to find a way to block the Orz from travelling into our dimension.

Lastly, I'd like to see the Chmmr go kinda crazy. Something about quickly merging two races sounds like an opening for an unstable mind.

Oh, one more thing. I think humans should develop slightly better ships.

That's a good idea too. Maybe we could have you running around trying to negotiate the creation of a new Council and maintaining the tenuous peace when suddenly... (insert favourite Big Idea here: Orz invade, Precursors return, Dynarri reborn, Incoming Groups reclaim worlds, etc.)

You know, Star Control is and always has been about the Ur-Quans. Volume IV was "Famous Battles of the Ur-Quan Conflict", volume V is "the Ur-Quan Masters." IMHO, and sequils should be about the Ur-Quans too.

However, how's this for a plot twist.

The humans try to set up the New Alliance of Free Stars, but not many races care to join and be the Human's battle thralls. Annoyed, humans respond by setting up an agressive recruting plan, going into the unexplored regons and negotiating alliance contracts with everyone they meet. (Kterbi, whoever.) A few humans do not agree (including our captian) with the new style of the NAoFS, and break off, find the MKII, and meet and befriend the BSS, Yehat, and the remnants of the defeated Ur-Quan. In order to have the help of the Ur-Quan, they agree to let the Ur-Quans lead them in battle to curbe some unrelated galactic threat. They win, but the Ur-Quan are not so willing to let go their new battle thralls, because our captian and his ship are to become the first in the front line for the Ur-Quan to defeat the new threat in the galaxy, the Orz. However, from the perspective of a thrall, the humans learn that the Quanny's actually may be in the right on this one, and agree to let the Quans lead them untill the galaxy is at peace.

Once the Orz are defeated, our captian calls on the Quans to follow through on their deal and let them go free. However, the Quans have a new threat that must be defeated. The humans. Bracing for combat, the Quan Master informs our captian that they are not the humans in question. It seems the NAoFS has become somewhat meglomanical, becoming worse than the Kohr-Ah ever was with a scorched earth recutement policy and our captian and his remarkable battle ship is to help disperse the corupt NAoFS. They do and peace is restored to the galaxy.

This idea may need more than one game to impliment. However, since I am only a fan and not on a development team, I expect it to be forgotten in time.

I like the idea of the "Heirs of the Precursors" being the makers of the Mmrnmhrm, but I think the Mycon should still be of Precursor Origin.  Maybe the Heirs knew about the Mycon and what they were supposed to do (terraform shattered metal worlds into water worlds), and expected this galaxy to be filled with water worlds that their MmrnMhrm would build cities on.  Having arrived in large but crowded multi-generational ships from a far-away galaxy, they aren't happy to find few water worlds, and they're already populated.  Even worse, someone apparently broke the Mother Ark and some crystaline race took the remaining MmrnMhrm hostage.  The Heirs might be nice folk, but they've got to live somewhere...

Ideas of a corrupt NAoFS have always been grating to me.  Part of the allure of SC was the overt "we're good, they're evil."  (putting aside the "Empire of Me" comments, and the Ur-Quan's attempts to explain their actions)

If some of the races started becoming corrupt, others would withdraw (assuming the NAoFS remains intact after the UQ threat is ended); the first Treaty explicitly stated that:


The MmrnMhrm and Chenjesu failed to defend Earth...

Volume VI of the UrQuan Conflicts:  The UrQuan Legacy (Think I'm remembering it from somewhere else)

You know, not all these ideas are mutually exclusive... it would be fun to have a game with a huge, tangly plot that takes literally hours and hours of time to unravel... with dozens of sectors of space to explore... and a Council whose ideas may not always conflict with yours...

Barring that, Culture20's idea sounds excellent too  ;)

And where's the "The Ur-Quan Conflicts" thing? In the manual? Where can I get a copy of the AoFS-Earth treaty?

From a designer's point of view, tho, what you suggest approximately translates into, "GAAAAAAHHHHHHGGGGGGHHHHH!" That's alot of development hours you're talking about.

Now, I've suggested this before, there's the idea in the game development world to design smaller eposidic sequils. In other words, what if UQM2 involved 5 or 6 smaller games that all used the same engine. Imagine that StarCraft, instead of having 1 official addon pack, had 5. When you buy the game you get the first 10 human missions (at a lower price than they sold it for initally). Then, you can buy the first 10 Zerg Missions for some small amount. Then the first 10 Protos missions. They'd release them either as they developed them or on a schedule. We're seeing a bit of this with Uru. I wouldn't be opposed to online content delivery, but I think that having mini-CDs with the new content on it that you could put at the register of any game, comic, or general shop would be a good way to deliver the content too.

Now, one might argue that with a game like what alot of people want to see in UQM2 this wouldn't be possible, but I'm sure that a clever developer could come up with a way to make this possible.

Well, if they need help... they have my email address. ;)

It would really be best if the developers just picked a plot they liked (preferably from our ideas) and then just ran with it. Hopefully they won't end up with something as bad as the SC3 plot...

I personally  did not mind the SC3 plot. Yes, it could be better, but that was good for people who were more interested in in money then making a good game.

**SPOILER** I like the added twist of having the precursors "deavolving" into cows **SPOILER**.  

HOWEVER, the way the presented it was not good. The game appeared to be rushed out before it was ready - why I had to start my game over again 6 times due to bugs in the game. (Mostly while trying to get a certain missile. ;) )        

Oh - And I forgot to ask what is the target date for the release of timewarp beta version? - I am not talking about the melee - I am talking about the full game with storyline. Does anyone know?

? Ok well heres the deal Ace. Even with about 200,000 years of advances in our sspace travel technology, there is no way Intergalactic travel would ever be possible. The distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda, the closest galaxy is mind-boggling. Even the Precursors would not hvae had that kind of technology, its just not possible or practical. Even so it would take dozens or hundreds of years.

give the mycon new ships? anyways, i wont be stubbern about my idea

Well, keep in mind that the "starmap" in hyperspace does not correspond to the actual locations of those stars in the slightest... instead it has to do with "dimensional fatigue" and shit. Hyperspace isn't analagous to our own space.

Well, if you line up a bunch of artificial planets in a certain pattern in a disc-shaped galaxy, use them to somehow point the galaxy's axis toward another, then press a magic button in your blackhole-powered spaceship, you will be transported to the center of another galaxy.  And before you say I'm wrong, I'd like to pretend that I'm quoting Nic. :)

Oooh! Plot idea!

Maybe your research exposes "Ultraspace," a new dimension like hyperspace but extremely unstable. That is, the positions of everything shifts around rather rapidly and so you could end up god-knows-where.

Hmmmm, someone didn't get my sarcasm. If you ever played Star Control 3 (which most people around here dislike and don't consider cannon), you'd get the joke. Also, since the main idea of this post was to bring about a worthy sequel, it's even more ironic.

P.S. It's just a game, don't let science get in the way of entertainment.

Just the $0.02 of a clone...

It was mentioned before...
Volume IV: Famous Battles of the Ur-Quan Conflict
Volume V: The Ur-Quan Masters

Going by Roman Numerals, it becomes apparent to that missing are Volumes I, II and III. Perhaps a PREquil rather than a SEquil?

Volume III: The Slaver's War - As an Ur-Quan (black or green, player decides at the beginning), war against the Dynarri when the opportunity presents itself to break free of your mental chains and destroy them for good!

Volume II: The Sentient Milleu - Happily living life planetside, the Daily Information Report shows that a strange alien ship contacted one of the Fusion Runners. Do the Ur-Quan make a pre-emptive strike, or try to conquer their inner beast and make peace? (Obviously peace comes, either by deciding to join, or perhaps some planetwide disaster forces the 'Quan into the Milleu.) Explorers and hunters to the core, the Ur-Quan quickly become the Milleu's best scouting taskforce. Culmination of game is when the Dynarri are found and The Slaver's War begins. Perhaps there were races that the Milleu had to fight against that were never mentioned...? A bit of infighting? The tricky thing here would be a "fog of war", parts of the map where you have no idea what's over there. Fuel would intentionally be a problem, and scouting missions would have to be run carefully or risk being cast adrift in space.

Volume I: The Beginnings of Civilization - Strive to survive on a hostile planet. Become the greatest predator in the known world, or find a way to bring together the rest of your kind. Change singular territorality into collective and begin the creation of the mightiest nation that the planet (and eventually space) will ever know.

OK, Volume I might be a little screwy, but hey, it's an idea.

Even if the ideas I slapped together here don't fly, the idea of a PREquil is still viable, I believe... I mean, Lucas PURPOSELY made his first Star Wars IV, so he could come back later and write up a story about how it all began. Think FF and PR3 did it on purpose too?  ;)

I see Volume I (of Necro-99's post) as a thirdperson-shooter/adventure like Ultima IX or Lara-croft which can zoom out into a civilization or Sim City style mode.  You can assume the personal role of any single Ur-Quan, and have to get them into an easy truce with each other by slightly modifying behaviors.  I guess that also adds some elements of Lemmings, the Sims and Galapogos.  Very different engine.  (similar to the way Dungeon Keeper could zoom between RT strategy and FPS)  
Edit: temporarily forgot that Ur-Quan were arboreal catepillers; their mode of travel might be hard to program as a 3rd person game unless their Trees were so intertwined that they didn't have to swing...

Volume III could be the end of  Dnyarri dominace too...  you're the Ur-Quan who finds and uses the Sa-Matra on the Khor-Ah.  Blow up Khor-Ah ships right and left at the start of the game, then begin your march around the galaxy.  Maybe Volume III could have two options, one for Kzer-Za and one for Khor-Ah.  Enslave or cleanse: you choose.  Throughout the game, you could slowly build your weak battlecruisers into the dreadnoughts or marauders we know today.

I would actually like something similar to Master of Orion with colony & mine building, starbases to build Alliance ships. In my version of the sequel, the Alliance would attempt to find the Precursors and lo, a race known as the Jha-Qel, a race of shaggy giants will appear.The Chmmr fusion will split at their arrival, and they will be angered to find that the Mycon have had a program malfunction, and destroyed so many habitable worlds. The Tha'raken will ally with the Ur-Quan, Druuge with the promise of a steady supply of slaves, Mycon, and VUX. They Will form the Guild of Conquest and will Engage the Alliance in a fight to the finish, The Jha-Qel(The Precursors) will ally with them to destroy this Guild and banish them forever.

No Precursors unless P&F make the game.  No two fans agree what the Precursors were/are.  I personally believe they are a collective hallucination brought about by breathing Mycon Spores (Sane Mycons devolved themselves into mushrooms after terraforming Earth and other water worlds with life; We think we hear the Slylandro talking about the precursors, but we don't).

I agree. I would not like to see a fan solve the precurser mysteries. Besides, the precursers died, so no matter how hard you search...

Tales of the Ur-Quan Conflict should not involve anything prior to the actual Ur-Quan. So that volume I is sort of too early. I also agree that precursors being present is bad unless handled by TFB.

No, No, No, Precursors have to be cow-like creatures which de-evolved themselves in order to...

There could be a chapter on Vela II. It could be a first person rpg, sorta like morrowind. That would add more styles of games into the starcontrol universe.

I have my own two cents to throw in here. What about we pick up with the story right where we left off....or even go back in time to about when Earth was first slave shielded. Yeah, I kinda like that....Anyway, my idea is a combo of Pirates (for Commador and DOS) and UQM. Basically, you pick your nationality (which ship(s) you start with) and go hunting for other ships, artifacts and such. As the other races war or make alliances, you gain ranks, RUs, etc by attacking their enemies and helping their friends. You could also "recuit" crew, search for artifacts (rather than treasure) and blow up enemy ships for RUs. Perhaps add in a feature to let you board an enemy ship, rather than destroy it?

This has the added benefit of using the current UQM star map, most of the engine and the same ships, but adds a completely new plot twist/view.

Culture:

Dude, caterpillars walk on the ground. They've got so many fuggin legs, they've got no other choice, unless there's some sort of evolutionary process we didn't know about. Think of a 3rd person Ur-Quan control as like controlling a Dachschund with 100 legs. It'd be different than a standard human model for moving around, but the 'Quan would have different abilities (rearing up, etc) than humans, along with different disadvantages (hard to get all of you moving in one direction, hard to stop, etc.)
It mentions on PNAF they hang from their ships, so climbing comes naturally, but swinging from trees...?

relating to zeep-eeep's poste, I would love to see a more open ended game based on the starcontrol universe. Sorta taking place in a neutral time when war is building up.

You've never seen an inch-worm or other caterpillar move around in twigs and leaves before; they grab on with their back 6 or 8 legs, and swing/move their fore-body to another twig.  Since the 'Quan are predatory caterpillars, and not predatory centipedes, I'd assume this would be their mode of travel (and hunting: a young Grynelk walks under a tree.  Suddenly, an Ur-Quan's fore-body swings down, talons extended.  The Grynelk dies quickly before the Ur-Quan begins coating it with digestive enzymes).  
I suppose they could do either, I just read through the Melnorme, Ur-Quan and Kohr-Ah quotes and didn't see anything about them climbing in trees or crawling.  I suppose my arboreal idea is decade-old conjecture from the SC1 & SC2 manuals:

Ur-Quan: Physically, Ur-Quan resemble the predatory
caterpillar native to Earth's Hawaiian Islands, only
grown to over ten meters in length.  The Ur-Quan
equivalent     of a face is rich in sensory organs, and its
expressions are varied and horrific.  Aboard ship, these
creatures cling to webbed ceilings with their back legs,
dangling down over their controls and their slave-crew
like hungry spiders.

We need a good place to find all these SC2 manual tidbits...

Aye-aye, Colonel:  http://www.star-control.com/

One of my ideas for a part of a sequel would be a second (but much smaller) invasion of Ur-Quan Kzer-Za ships. My rationale was this: there had to be more hierarchy thralls elsewhere in the galaxy. When the Kzer-Za move on to continue their travels around the galaxy, what do they do with these thralls? Obviously they can't just leave them to their own devices. But at the same time it's obvious that the thralls don't travel everywhere the Kzer-Za do: they entered our part of the galaxy all by themselves. I think that after an area of the galaxy is conquered (one way or another) they allow the thralls to stay around that area, probably close to their homeworlds. But again, why would they leave these thralls to their own devices? They should remain subservient to the Kzer-Za, that's what the Path of Now and Forever is all about!

The answer is that they naturally leave some Dreadnoughts behind to look after things and to make sure there aren't any rebellions or anything of that sort. Kzer-Za authority must be maintained, after all.

The fight between the Kzer-Za and the Kohr-Ah lasted, what, some 20 years or so? This would be time enough for at least some of those Dreadnoughts that were left behind to regroup and come in as reinforcements. Of course they wouldn't be a significantly large fleet, nothing like the Armada. But they could still cause a lot of problems. Naturally they wouldn't bring any thralls with them as only Ur-Quan are allowed to participate in the Doctrinal Conflict.

The timing is critical. Depending on how the sequel is set up, I think it'd be nice and challenging to have these Kzer-Za strike when it's least convenient. Like after certain plot elements come to pass the player is thinking, "Great, what else could possibly go wrong?" and then he/she gets a report that Dreadnoughts are attacking a certain race and it's like, "What the hell??" And then the whole quadrant is thrown into a frenzy at this new threat (which in reality isn't that big a threat at all).

I wonder, given this situation, how the Kzer-Za fleets would react upon hearing that nobody won the Doctrinal Conflict and that the Sa-Matra's been destroyed? They'd probably refuse to believe it at first.

So while it wouldn't be a very good basis for a sequel, I think this idea would add an interesting twist (like a monkey wrench thrown into the works) to the game. Or at the least it'd make an ok fan-fic.

But think of how this could set up future games and/or future stories. With more Dreadnoughts gone, it would be possible for the battle thralls to stage a rebellion... or maybe even a civil war between loyal thralls and what few Dreadnoughts are left and the thralls who want a better deal for themselves while freeing the enslaved races.

Anyway... I'm rambling and I'm done now. =)

I suppose SC2's official end should be reasonably close to the end of the war. So if the reinforcements were supposed to arrive before the end of the war at all, they should arrive pretty quickly in the beginning of the sequel, before the war would have been won.

and as I remember, when the utwig got at attacking the ur-quan, they did a good job of it. Less ur-quan would be an easier job to do.

on 13.01.04 at 18:54:17, Bladestar X wrote:


Just due to a plateful of close-mindedness, and a side dish of blatant ethnocentrism, I must burn this post and it's poster.

Blade, you ever thought OUTSIDE of the "human" box? You ever met a Precursor to know what kind of technology they had?
I didn't think so.
If you need clarification, and I can't really tell if you will or not, do ask for some. I hope you understand what I'm trying to get across here so that I don't have to get a 2x4 and drive it in.

Ok, I feel better now.

As for the Ur-Quan and moving about...I'd wager, being the predators that they are and all, they'd do both. There was probably some kind of slow, fleshy critter that lived on the ground that the 'Quan figured out how to hunt. Probably some fast, fleshy critters too, and they'd use the trees for them. Birds nest in trees as well, so there's eggs and, well, momma bird to boot. Eventually, during gameplay, weapons would come about. Stuff designed for an Ur-Quan to assist them in hunting (and self defense).
Or would they? It's a little presumptious to say that "All sentient, thinking creatures undergo a growth of their entire species into a Stone, Tool, Bronze Age, so on and so forth..."
We know that, eventually, they pull together as one unified group, and I'd wager that's when buildings would start to appear. They'd more than likely want to settle somewhere so they have return points for their food and a relatively safe place from the elements. A little presumptious, sure, but it seems most likely. Start with crude shacks made of mud, then Tryy'g Wood and Jhambu Leaves, then, continue up from there...
Someone, continue forth!

The Doctrinal Conflict doesn't happen in a set period of time, it just occurs until someone wins. So there's really no way for the reinforcements to know when the war will end or that it even has when they arrive. And anyway, from their point of view as long as they're alive and fighting the Path of Now and Forever is still a valid doctrine. The only thing that could stop these new Kzer-Za, short of blowing them all to pieces, would be if they knew the Sa-Matra had been destroyed. But that's a difficult thing to prove... no matter what is said to them they could just think it had been stolen and hidden somewhere.

Maybe the "native" Kzer-Za and/or Kohr-Ah could convince them otherwise, but who's to say what the consequences would be? The idea that the Sa-Matra is destroyed would be a total culture shock to the invaders and there's no real way to predict how they'd react to it. Maybe they'd go on a total rampage and try to destroy everything. Maybe they'd suddenly become docile. Or maybe they'd finally start thinking clearly and would submit to the idea that they should join their fellow Ur-Quan in trying to piece together what remains of their culture.

I think a good lead into this sidequest would be if the current Ur-Quan leader (whoever it may be) or representative or whatever actually requests that you try to reason with them since they're not up to speed on current events. Maybe you'd have to take along a shuttle with a Kzer-Za diplomat on it to reason with them. A nice way to stop their current rampage could occur once you have a Kzer-Za with you, perhaps in the form of an obscure law that was once passed and never negated that forces an end to all hostilities until a certain minor issue is cleared up. In other words, a technicality that the bureaucratic Kzer-Za can't ignore lest they violate the laws of their precious Hierarchy. =)

I mean, there are so many possibilities I'm almost salivating here.

I have a very simple plot idea.
Several Years after SC2
The main character starts off as a Freighter captain.
The starting ship is not the mark 2 but a sucky freighter.
The main character come across some information that tells him the end of the universe is coming.  And also acquires a partial precursor map to a starship factory. The character somehow must find the remaining pieces of the map to get the precursor ship (Mark 2).
No one believes the information to be reliable so the main character goes it alone.
As the character discovers more and reports it to the authorities they slowly give it more credit. The character as time passes finds parts to some precursor device that is important to saving the universe.
Final part of the story would be with the help of the alliance the character fights of the threat to the universe. Wither the threat is powerful alien race or ancient evil.

What you guys think?
I also have a engine idea in the engine thread

I take it that this is not our captain...

hhmmm... Interesting - Needs some work - but it has potential. I think that you would have to collect RU's for the Precursor Factory and then you could build the ship.

On the idea of thinking outside the human box, how about some completely different games, based on the starcontrol universe.
An open ended rpg taking place on feudle shofixti land?

Yu mean basicly a land battle of where the shofixty are going to livenow that they can't live on Delta Gorno?

no. I mean you live as a shofixti, before the yehat contact them.

It was only an example of a completely new game idea for starcontrol. Why wright new history when their is so much already written.

In this timeline would the Yehat help you in terms of tech?

maybe in the end, im not really sure.
I kinda ment this idea as a normal medievil type rpg, but everyone is a shofixti, and it plays japanese music (I think about very specific things)

Not a bad idea.  You could (if you wanted) have a crash-landed, rusty terminator as part of some scenery (like the Kilrathi vessel in Ultima7). Dunno if the Yehat were watching the Shofixti during their fuedal period...

you could have lots of easter eggs like that. maybe the ariloo stop by for a visite.
but I was thinking that the mostpart of the game would have little to do with other races.

So basicly a RTS?
we can use the age of empires engine like star wars battlegrounds did!

but i realy dont like this idea. its just loses the whole save the universe apeal.
it could be a minigame.

rts is a great idea. I was thinking rpg, sorta like morrowind. Or maybe fallout. hmm. star control has so many possibilities.

No but does it need to be? he most likely will be the head of the alliance. and you cannot have a exploration/mining game when you have a entire alliance backing the player up.


Thats why its a simple plot idea to be expanded apon.

I was also thinking that as you progress in the story you have old npcs join you from the SC2 like fwippo and talina. and they will pilot your extra ships in combat.

The enemy that is coming could be a dynarri fleet. and the device is like the toalo rock thing.

sorry for any misspelled words.

He didn't seem like the head of the alliance at the end of SC2 (with his grandchildren).  In fact, he and Talana were returning "home" to Unzervalt, so it seems like he was retiring.  Even if he was the Emperor of X, he didn't have the big ship anymore...  And, it is implied that the Captain found the Mark II, not a subordinate of his.

Well we could say the mark 2 was the alliance flagship and the ship the player will fly is not the mark 2 but the Sa-Matra 2. just joking about the sa matra bit. but it can be a other precurser ship built in a different factory.

Hmm, you got that idea from me, didn't you?
(http://www.weblayouts.net/teacherjoe/pictures/shofixtiCG.gif
)

yes, and might I say that your cell shading is excellent.

Ideas for the Alliance and Tha-Rakkan War

Good Guys
Human
Chmmr
Spathi
Thraddash
Supox
Syreen
Spathi
Black Spathi Squadron
Pkunk
Yehat
Slylandro
Shofixti
Ur-Quan

Bad Guys
Tha-Rakkan
Kohr-Ah
Mycon
Orz
Druuge
Ilwrath

Neutral
Melnorme
Ariloulaleelay

Trader Alliance
Jharag
Qel
Thavis
Hahnil

The Trader Alliance Will Sell You There Starships, Resources, Colonizers, and technologies for Intrstar Credits. The Engine will sort of be A Master of Orion/SC2 Cross. Post more later.

the thraddash and the ilwrath are dead.
both ur-quan are probably dead.

Even if the Ilwrath and Thraddash are dead (depending on your choices you can save one or the other), I find the prospect that all Ur-Quan are dead HIGHLY suspect.

As for this war idea of Bladestar X:
Before the battle lines are drawn, why don't we go a bit more into the WHY of the war. -- These new races have almost no characterization yet. Who are they, how do they act, what do they expect and want, what tech do they have?
-- Why would the Kohr-Ah ally with ANYONE other than the Kzer-Za?
-- Also, I would expect quite a few more neutrals.
-- And where do the Umgah, Utwig, VUX, and Zoq-Fot-Pik stand?


Also, you put the Spathi and the BSS on the same side. I mean, the Black Spathi Squadron is a squadron which by definition has 2-10 ships, 20 ships tops. Compare this with the rest of the Spathi race, which has thousands. They aren't worth mentioning except as a footnote, perhaps recon or something.

*** Star Control 3 spoiler alert ***



I know how you all hate Star Control 3... I don't hate it, I actually liked it. Of course it was not as good as 2, but it had some good stories to tell about the Star Control universe. I'd hate to see the good ones overrun in this possible sequel. Here are some of the SC 3 facts that I liked:

- The orz turning evil (I noticed this was a common request for the sequel)

- The truth about the ultron and the Utwig (I didn't like fixing it again, but in my opinion it is very logical that the ultron really is a piece of junk just as the Druuge said it is. It just gave the Utwig enough confidence on themselves to really rise to their full potential.)

- What really happened to the Precursors. (their plans for the rainbow-worlds were also pretty good in my opinion)

- The Ur-Guan Kzer-Za being a lot more smarter beings than the Kohr-Ah surrendered to the Alliance and become allies. (but as in SC 3, some of the Kzer-Za didn't accept this and they began a rebellion with help from the Kohr-Ah.)


Those are the ones that I don't want to see overrun.

As it has been mentioned many times here, I would also like to get more deeply involved in the Orz-Arilou-Androsynth business. It was really scary in SC 2.

Instead of the orz joining the bad guy team, why not give them a more kohr-ah role. kill everything.

It'd be a pretty major disappointment if the sequel fell back on the old "kill everything" idea as its main focus. It's been done. The impression I got from the Orz was that they somehow displaced the Androsynth rather than actually killing them all. This is less typical and more sci-fi in my opinion, and it creates fertile grounds for creative minds to build on.

Yep, Orz doesn't have to be evil; just dangerously alien.  It thought it was doing a good thing when it was *pulling* the androsynth, but "they  are so silly, they do not want".

The Ultron was the "Apendages of Dawn", a precursor "Mental Amplifer," designed to allow the user to cause discreet change.  I doubt that it's junk.

No sequal should explain as much about the precursors as SC3 did.  It removes the mystery and any possibility of another interesting sequal.

The Kzer-Za won't willingly join the alliance unless the Chmmr remind them of the Taalo or the Taalo return and join the alliance.  Also, it's impossible for the Kzer-Za to join the Alliance.  It exists for the sole reason of unified defense against the Kzer-Za aggression.  Sans aggression, the alliance dissolves and another treaty would need to be signed.

I wouldnt minde if the ultron was explaned. Maybe it can add some sorta ability to a precurser ship, or something like that. I wouldnt like to see it be very powerfull though.

The Ultron was explained, as Culture20 just made note of.  To quote the Starbase Commander in UQM:


This was, in fact, one of my favourite "little touches" that was put on the game.  Alien technology that was truly alien, in that we had no ability to use it whatsoever.

I don't mind if the Kzer-Za join, but it should be something which must be worked for, not happen automatically before the beginning of the game.

oh right, the ultron was explained. I do like the truely alien precurser technology of the ultron better than the precurser artifacts in sc1 and 3, which could be applied to ships other ships.

     The Umgah are Neutral, The Utwig, VUX, and Zoq-Fot-Pik are Allies. The Kohr-Ah are allied with the Tha-Rakkan because when they tried to eliminate them, The Tha-Rakkan not only survived, but attacked and eliminated about 10 Kohr-Ah Squadrons(12 Ships). The Black Spathi have industrialized a small Telluric world to Churn out a several Dozen BSS Daggers. They have also set aside their differences. The Ilwrath were stopped before they could reach the Thraddash and were Exiled after a Huge Battle with the Chmmr,Yehat/Pkunk, and Shofixti fleets.They want revenge. The Tha-Rakkan are at war with the Alliance due to their competiton with the Trader Alliance, and they need more industrial colonies. They are an evil greedy race, similar to the Druuge and are willing to do anything for their goals. The Tha-Rakkan resemble huge gargoyles. Their Ship, The Plague has the same Crew and Dynamo attributes as The Kzer-Za,Kohr-Ah, and Chmmr ships. The main weapon is an explosive shell, and the secondary weapon is a close-range magnetic spray that temporarily disables the engines of a ship(about 30 real seconds). That attack uses about half their energy. The shells use up six units. Also the Trader Alliance are Neutral in the war. There will be a few more Neutral Races, but I havent decided what to call them yet.

Im sorry bladestar x but those "alliances" just do not make sense.
The kohr -ah.... hmm..... are we talking about the same kohr ah? you know the ones who say "you are filth and must be cleansed?"
the Druuge would stay neutral  since there is no profit in waging war. they would make weapons for both sides.
the vux would not allie with the utwig since they look to much like us.

This is what I want in a sequel:
NPC Captains that level up and have conversations with you. and control the ships in your fleet.
Multiple endings that are decided by your actions.
An exploration and adventure feel.
A Mystery as the main driving force in the game. (a VERY WELL crafted one.)
The ability to wipe out a race and not lose the game as a result.
Random encounters.
Ability to commit Piracy.
A Super Quantum Ultra annihilating Spectral Hammer (S.Q.U.A.S.H.) in a hard to find place.

Your trademaster tells you, that

This means, that the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah cannot go any different way than the one they are going, without something really severe happening.
And the destruction of the Sa-Matra is not enough, since they did not need it until now, they won't need it in future to kill all other sentient life-forms.

edit corrected a faulty racename. Thanks D999!

You mean Kohr-Ah, not Kzer-Za.

Also, I must say, the last two lines of Greenish's speech remind me of present-day US foreign policy.

^ Well, like they say, a good offense is the best defense.

A good offence is a good defensive strategy, but not if it is apllied in a first blow under the current dituation here on earth.
The good offence (especially strong offence) is meant as a counterattackweapon, and since it is a counterattack it has to be good and fast, to strike the enemy while he is still building his forces.

I seldom say "good you did that" to a first-blow attack. And in case of the Iraqi, it was not even to prevent a war that will come anyway.

Enjoy!

so you claim.
anyway there is already a thread for iraq, i would recommend you post there.