The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

Assuming you don't do anything, who wins in the end? The Kohr-Ah or the Probes?

The probes!

they dont need a support structure.
they grow at a rate not even the shofixi can match.

I'd say the Korh-Ah. They could continue to grow, expand and destroy from land colonies, even if their ships were all wiped out. They have an advantage of numbers, by far.
Plus they have the Ur-Quan battle platform, assuming you don't blow it up.

Actually, what about the Traders? I think they leave this area of space around the same time the black Ur-Quan start their cleasing. I wonder where they go? They'd probably win, the corperations always do.

I would say the Ur-quan (combined) They have dealt with many problems in the past and think that the probes will not be a problem for them.

line up computer vs computer kohr-ah and probes;  if there is a huge discrepency, then one side might win.

In the end, entropy always wins.

Maybe not in Quasispace.

It is a ratio of three probes per ur-quan ship (mixed). But remember, the Ur-quan ships take a while to make and require raw RU's. The probes self replicate so there is a lot more of them than Ur-Quan ships. Though as smart as the Ur-quan are they would probaly make a ship that takes out probes easily.

Some points for this discussion:

1. The Kohr-Ah are probabably very throrough in exterminating senient life, and I doubt they'd overlook the gas giant at Beta Corvi. Though they might, because the Kohr-Ah, bypassed the Druuge, who kept their hyperwave communcations silent, and gave (or sold? can't recall.) that Hyperwave Caster to the Burvix. However, the Kohr-Ah aren't fooled that easy, because they do go back and correct their mistake at the end of UQM as time expires. Additionally, if other races could extrapolate their probe data to give you hints in UQM about where to find the Slylandro, the Kohr-Ah could probably figure it out from the clues. So it's likely they'd find the Slylandro, and a means of extorting from them the codes they'd need to win that war. Maybe by chopping off their glowy bits.

2. If the Mael-Num are the Melnorme, then it's likely the Ur-Quan have seen these probes and the technology before, and may know the codes to shut the probes down.

Two thing:
1. Like he said, if they are the Mael-Num, the Ur-Quan will know how to shut them down.
2. Saying they WON'T know how, they are smart enough to understand they can't beat them by their own ships. They need a powerful weapon to destroy them without "giving" them resources to repliacte: the Sa-Matra.

edit: we already had a thread on this. Can someone find it?

Yeah, the Sa-Matra is all they need.  I doubt that the Khor-Ah would extort any information from the Slylandro; they'd just tell them to prepare for death and then kill them.  Also, it's been 20,000 years since the Ur-Quan (either speices) have seen the Mael-Num.  If the Melnorme are the Mael-Num, I really doubt that the Ur-Quan would have seen these probes, or even thought of them as a threat (they usually aren't programmed the way the slylandro set them up).

How would you be sure you killed all the Slyrandro? I mean part of their bodies are invisible. Would you poison the planet or something?

The probe is a lot like the fury, it can do a lot of damage to the sa-matra. Then again, they dont have a big juicy utwig bomb.

I don't think that a probe can do barely any damage to the Sa-matra. I think that it can take out its stationary defences yes, but remember. The Sa-Matra was not using its weapons during the time that you destroyed it.

ya. it was only using the green balls and fire balls.

Right - If it was using is regular weapons the Vindcator would have looked like swiss cheese. This is what the Chmmr have to say about it:  
What more can you tell me about this Sa-Matra?

we only glimpsed it once, when it devastated our most powerful fleet
it was several times the size of your vessel
with a host of unusual weapons protruding from its scabrous hull
but the most dangerous feature of the sa-matra was its annihilation toroids...
with this weapon they could vaporize ships from the far side of a solar system
or cut broad swaths of devastation across a planet in seconds.

I am sure now that the Slylandro will all be dead if their planet is destructed in few sec.

How would you destroy a planet? Note; I don't mean bombard it - I mean destroy it!

we arnt talking about the gas bags, we're talking about the nomadic probes

Off topic: Sorry - Got carried away there

On topic: I think the Ur-quan would win hands down.

I can beat a marauder in a probe, but I can also beat a probe in a marauder. I'm faily sure my probe skill is better than my marauder skill (its strange but I dont use the marauder that much). I'm guessing that the kohr-ah are better pilots than the probes. Therefore, the korh-ah would win.

They started talking about it.... So I had to answer :)

The Kohr-ah Have a huge fleet and the Sa-matra but the probes aren’t actively trying to fight the Kohr-ah. And the kohr-ah will not actively seek out and destroy them since they are not a sentient race to be cleansed. The probes would spread to places to where the kohr-ah have yet explored and continue to reproduce at a rate that is staggering. The kohr-ah can fight them off quite easily but they will fall victim to countless attacks slowly eating away their fleet. Slowly and eventually the probes will eliminate any ships that don’t stay close to the Sa-Matra. And even the mighty Sa-matra will begin to breakdown and then the probes will own the galaxy in peace. Of coarse this would take thousands upon thousands of years.

Threats deserve greater attention than Filth.

Ownd

Only if they perceive them as a threat. They would not be very threatening at first since they don’t cluster together like living beings do. Kill like 10 probes to 100 alien ships then 30 to a hundred and then they explode on you and they are in every corner of the galaxy like bacteria.

I agree with this. The probes' growth is exponential so even if the Kohr-Ah take an active stance against the probes, they won't be able to kill them all. And the probes will neither be seeking out the Kohr-Ah nor fleeing from them, so the Kohr-Ah will probably not be able to predict their movements.

Then it's a stalemate; A pocket of Kohr-Ah & Kzer-Za living in close proximity to the Sa-Matra, and constantly battling a sea of probes until they happen to eventually capture one, reverse-engineer it, and discover the destruct code.  The Melnorme might also change the destruct code on some new probes to do battle with the Kohr-Ah.

the melnorm are not war like. At leased they dont seem war like.

Which brings up a question I had never considered: Do probes fight each other? That would mean that there would be some limit to the total possible number of probes.

I suppose they would fight each other. Maybe if they were smart enough (probably not) they would form teams and start a huge, endless robotic war.

Could be wrong about this, but I don't think they fight each other since they don't list other probes as interesting targets to be scanned and communicated with.

If it were just the Kohr-Ah involved, I would say the Probes would eventually crush them. But the green Ur-Quan would figure a way past this for sure. They'd either find the Slyandro and fix the problem or disable a probe, reverse engineer it, and figure out the self-destruct code themselves.

then the probes wouldn't start communicating, they'd just go strait to attacking the other probes.

I declare this a moot point.

Anyway, I'm sort of surprised the Dnyarri never hatches a plan to bring down the Ur-Quan by the end if you don't drop by and take him.

sorry, but what does moot mean?

From m-w.com:

Main Entry: ³moot
Function: adjective
1 a : open to question : DEBATABLE b : subjected to discussion : DISPUTED
2 : deprived of practical significance : made abstract or purely academic

But really, isn't the original question moot to begin with?

Lets not forget that the probes eventually tells from where they came from... the ur-quan will go there, get the destruction code and the war is over!

The slyrandro will give it to them because they remember the Ur-quan being nice. (Though they also remember them being brown)

The slylandro are nice, they don't want their probes killing people.
The urquan may remember where the slylandro live.

The UrQuan remembering the Slylandro is irrelevant.  The probes don't mention the slylandro (unless you meant that when they see the coordinates, they'd see that it's the slylandro homeworld, then the Ur-Quan would say, "Oh Yeah, the floating gas bags").

Given the Kohr-Ah mindset, they'd probably tell the Slylandro that after they deliver the destruct code they will all be cleansed.  Depending on whether or not the Slylandro want to act in self defense, they might be willing to let the probes eternally battle the Kohr-Ah.

Maybe they WON'T cleanse them since they can't leave the planet and they are not really a threat... the probes came from another race - the melnorme so maybe the koar-ah will see it and decide not to kill them. After all, EVEN the precursers couldn't get them out of their orbit!

maybe the kohr-ah know the melnorme, that is, it the melnorme are the mael-num.

It really depends on who gets there first. If they even bothered to check gas giants, the Kohr-Ah would inform the Slylandro of their "filth" status and incinerate them with no discussion. They'd do the same thing to the Melnorme which is why they take off before that part of the game occurs. If the Ur-Quan found the planet, the problem would be solved and the Ur-Quan would keep the Slylandro a secret.

Lets not forget we are talking about very advance and smart races. I am sure they could find a solution to shut up "auto pilot" or something like that. But in the end, the Melnorme will help them since the probes will be a problem for them. No sentient races = no one to trade with.

P.S

I am sure the probes don't count Melnorme ships as "objects".

I'm sure the probes do see the traders as objects. The melnorme would have warned the slylandro, if they forsaw this change.

If the probes don't see other probes as objects, why the melnorme will risk themself and count them as objects? Even so, the Melnorme don't like "giving" information, and the probe is designed to get information "for free".

Don't forget, in order to become primary target, you not only have to be an object but be an unknown object.
So the probes would ignore other probes, the melnorme ships, etc. Also, if they took as their primary target a planet, and attempted to break it into component compounds, they would either come too close and burn up in the atmosphere or futilely attempt to do so from a distance until something else came along and took over the unfortunate role of primary target.

Also, even if the probes attacked the melnorme, they know the destruct code.

that depends. did the slylandro program the destruct code afterwards, or did the melnorme incorperate it.

The Melmorme incorparated it. The Slyrandro are not the sharpest tool in the shed.

but they are one of the most fun races to talk to.

The self destruct code may have been incorperated by the melnorme. but the self destruct code system may be like some of the more secure computer systems. you may have only 3 tries to send the right code before it locks you out. and if the code is anywhere near as complex as a cd key, for windows xp, the ur-quan and melnorme are screwed.

But don't the melnorme know it? I mean, some one had to give it to the Slyrandro.... (The are not smart enough to figure it out themselves)