The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Vassago_Umara on March 11, 2004, 08:19:27 am



Title: The best ships
Post by: Vassago_Umara on March 11, 2004, 08:19:27 am
What are your thoughts on what ships are the best to fight which ships.  All I know is I can kick some Ur-Quan butt with the Spathi Eluder.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Kylaer on March 11, 2004, 05:59:55 pm
I like the Thraddash against just about anything. It owns the Ur-Quan, Kohr-Ar, Chmmr, Androsynth, Pkunk, and most other ships.

It's weak against the Druuge, Earthling, and Chenjesu, but hey, nothing's perfect.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Death 999 on March 11, 2004, 06:23:51 pm
Heh... Try doing Thraddash tricks against a decent human player. They won't work.

Of the heavy ships I like the Kohr-Ah the best. It takes some skill, has several kinds of viable strategy: insane damage pump, pillbox, sniper, mine-layer. Its weapons form very solid defenses that block anything but Fearballs and confusion rays.

Of the lighter ships, I like the Supox. They can put out a large amount of damage in multiple bursts from medium range, and can dodge easily. They also have a small target profile if rotated correctly.

As far as Ur-Quan vs. Spathi is concerned, yeah, the Spathi have a major native upper hand. Solution? First, you can try going very quickly via a grav whip or two. Done properly, the Spathi actually can't keep up. This will let you 'scan' across it as a target, substituting timing as a continuous aiming variable for rotation as a discrete one. This helps a lot.

This works for both Kohr-Ah and Kzer-Za, but the Kzer-Za can use it better due to a faster moving main.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 11, 2004, 09:20:02 pm
Don't forget the chmmr killer - Druuge = Dead chmmr.



Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Spurk on March 11, 2004, 09:42:05 pm
Favorite heavy: The Chenjesu. If it had the Chmmr's speed and energy recharge rate it would be unstoppable. As it is, it's nearly unstoppable.

Favorite light: Arilou. Not sure if that's really true or not, but it's as good a pick as any.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Terminator on March 11, 2004, 09:52:18 pm
I would have to say the Spati Eluder and The Utwig Jugger the Spathi owns all if you can get used to screen wraps and onlys faster ships like the slyandro probes, the Jugger needs no explanation.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 11, 2004, 10:12:14 pm
Quote
Favorite heavy: The Chenjesu. If it had the Chmmr's speed and energy recharge rate it would be unstoppable. As it is, it's nearly unstoppable.

Favorite light: Arilou. Not sure if that's really true or not, but it's as good a pick as any.


I like that arilou as well. The CPU is REALLY good with it though. I think it calculates whether the weapon you launched would he it and than a spit second before the weapon hits it teleports.

Chenjesu - Well, depends for me. The only bad thing about it is its slow turning rate. If you play a Adrosnyth right, the Chenjesu is as good as dead.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Spurk on March 12, 2004, 12:21:06 am
Quote

Chenjesu - Well, depends for me. The only bad thing about it is its slow turning rate. If you play a Adrosnyth right, the Chenjesu is as good as dead.

Yeah, once the Synth gets to the Broodhome, it's all over. So the goal is to not let it get close to the Broodhome. Most pilots I've played against (including the computer) let the Broodhome travel pretty linearly without too many twists and turns. That makes for good aiming and hitting.

One caveat I suppose I should mention about the Broodhome is that if a ship starts off right next to the Broodhome, the Broodhome can be in pretty bad shape. Especially against a ship like the Jugger. If I start off far enough away that the DOGIs get to him before he gets to me, then I can bare down on him with my crystals, but if he's next to me immediately then he can tear me apart and absorb most of the damage I send his way.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on March 12, 2004, 02:44:36 am
Heavy ship: Koar-Ah. This ship rocks! You can camp, put mines, use gravity whip and FRIED(if you do it very well, you can pass right near the ship and use it so 8 fireballs will hit(!)
snipe, and ofcourse you can do defensive wall with the shreds. Almost perfect....

Medium ships: Terminator  ;D The ship that can beat the crap out of you, CPU or human! No need to add anything else....

Light ship: Fury. Despite to the fact that it is very hard to control it, I managed to get a control almost as the cpu but just smarter... The only one ship that I almost can't beat with it... The Jugger(cpu only ofcourse... unless you have super skills in shields like the cpu does).


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on March 12, 2004, 06:16:40 am
I'm a big fan of the Chmmr. It can take just about any small ship and most of the big ones, if used carefully. While a number of ships work well in human vs computer combat, this ship is also good at human vs human. The only ship I can think of that it has trouble matching is the Utwig.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Terminator on March 12, 2004, 06:20:56 am
Quote
I'm a big fan of the Chmmr. It can take just about any small ship and most of the big ones, if used carefully. While a number of ships work well in human vs computer combat, this ship is also good at human vs human. The only ship I can think of that it has trouble matching is the Utwig.


Let's  not forget the Koar-Ah they beat the crap out of  the Chmmr Fried will kill all zapsats it makes contact with


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 12, 2004, 06:56:48 am
Need I repeat? I guess so, since the Druuge was not on that list.

Quote
Don't forget the chmmr killer - Druuge = Dead chmmr.




Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on March 12, 2004, 07:09:26 am
Quote


Let's  not forget the Koar-Ah they beat the crap out of  the Chmmr Fried will kill all zapsats it makes contact with


The Chmmr can still kill the Koar-Ah in 4 sec, but yes he will lose the Zaplites/some of them because of the FRIED.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Spurk on March 12, 2004, 04:45:11 pm
^ Not to mention that skillful use of the tractor beam can allow you to avoid the FRIED without losing any Zapsats.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on March 12, 2004, 11:41:30 pm
I agree that the Druuge is a great ship for killing Chmmr, if you warp in at long distance. But, really, at medium or short range, the Druuge is toast.
Also, I've found that while a Druuge ship is great for killing one Chmmr (human vs computer), in human vs human combat, it usually isn't a good choice.

I've also found that one Druuge is great against one Chmmr. But I can
beat five Druuge ships (getting the bomb) with one Chmmr. Trying the same in reverse would probably cause the Druuge to run out of energy.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Vassago_Umara on March 13, 2004, 01:34:25 am
When you're playing the full game what ship is the best to take on the Ilwrath, I hate those guys.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 13, 2004, 01:35:44 am
The orz can kill the chmmr as long as u dont fly away, or toward it. You need to keep turning away, cus the chmmr takes a while to change direction. You probably all knew that.

The thraddash can kill a chmmr as long as u dont mess up.

The ariloo can always kill a chmmr if u give it enough time and your playing a human player. Just wait for the suicide.

The most efficient way to kill the chmmr is still the utwig.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Shiver on March 13, 2004, 05:48:56 am
I played this against someone on my computer a few days ago and learned a little more about melee. I like Orz, they can kill everything. Here's what the Orz can't completely stomp into oblivion:

Kohr-Ah: Against the computer you're typically going to defeat one, then retreat or die in the next fight. If it's player controlled, they have a definite advantage.

Shofixti: Ugh. Did you know there are people out there that like to play equal ship value games against you with just these? One Orz = four Shofixti, five if you're generous. You can theoretically beat them with your speed and range, but it takes an eternity to land a hit and one false slip is all it takes for them to take you out. The sad thing is, Orz are one of the better choices for this scenario. The only good way I've found to put the little rascals down is with a Supox.

Androsynth: OMGWTFBBQ!

I don't mention the Arilou because human controlled Skiffs are quite managable. Slylandro could be a little dangerous if you meet someone who's actually good with it.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Captain Smith on March 13, 2004, 06:19:39 am
If you can find it, there's a huge thread where a bunch of us talk about matchups of every ship against every other ship in the game...

For the Ilwrath you want the Utwig, Zot-Foq-Pik, Supox, Druuge (if you get a ship in the game), or Traddash.

For the player that likes the Traddash - I can tell you don't play on Awesome mode...turn it to Awesome and then see how well you do...or try against human players.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on March 13, 2004, 06:34:58 am
One of the best ships to tackle the Ilwrath is the Shyreen Penater. You can
suck out the crew (which also shows where the cloacker is hiding) then turn and shoot him. Fly back and pick up the crew before the next Ilwrath shows up.

As for the Thraddish. I can beat almost any computer ship (yes on awesome) with a Thraddish. Though I do admit that human players tend to do much better against the Torch.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 13, 2004, 06:40:35 am
Here is a interesting fact about the CPU. When you are playing against a Aswsome chmmr, the level of engines you put away from the chmmr is how much they are going to use their tractor beam. In you don't fire your engines, they won't use the tractor.  


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Captain Smith on March 13, 2004, 06:46:05 am
Here's the before mentioned link...it's still quite interesting to read through, and I wrote some of it  ;D

http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1062686746


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: 0xDEC0DE on March 14, 2004, 12:20:37 pm
Quote
When you're playing the full game what ship is the best to take on the Ilwrath, I hate those guys.

In the full game, the best ship for fighting the Ilwrath is the Zoq-Fot-Pik Stinger.  It is faster and more maneuverable than its opponent, and it's main weapon is oddly suited to shooting at cloaked ships, e.g., point in the general direction of the enemy, get within a reasonable distance and open fire.  The fairly quick recharge rate means you can dish out the pain rather quickly, as opposed to the Orz Nemesis who can only fire three times before needing to recharge.

To test this out, I started Super-Melee against an "Awesome AI" team of 14 Ilwrath ships, and on my team I had a single Stinger.  The Stinger won, and would have had full crew were it not for an unfortunate incident with the planet's surface.  ;)


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 14, 2004, 06:18:29 pm
How long did it take?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on March 15, 2004, 01:51:52 am
Each Ilwrath ship takes like 1 minute. It is pretty easy to beat those with the Stinger.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 15, 2004, 02:33:52 am
Can you say, "Lets all go mine ilwrath space!"


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 15, 2004, 02:37:01 am
Quote
That's why timewarp adds an addtional level to difficulty to the game when u use a cloaked avenger in SC2 you can more or less guess where it is. I call it target pratice. How's this drugge vs. an avenger how's your aim helps if outnumber them at least 3 to 1.

I thnk teminator meant to post this here, so lets treat it like he did.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 15, 2004, 02:38:29 am
The timewarp feature of making the ilwrath cloaking more effective makes the ilwrath quite a bit more challenging. I always get nervous when I fight the ilwath in timewarp. I know it going to suddenly zoom in on the ilwrath burning my ship.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on March 15, 2004, 02:55:12 am
Without edit button: 3 post. With edit button: 1 wonderful post! And what feature are you talking about?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: 0xDEC0DE on March 15, 2004, 04:36:32 am
And here is a screenshot for proof:

(http://www.submedia.net/~nic/uqm/victory.png)


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 15, 2004, 05:21:13 am
I was refering to the timewarp feature of the screen not zooming when an ilwrath is cloaked


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 15, 2004, 05:58:11 am
I just took out 12 illwraths (awsome) with 2 earthling casualties. The zoom in makes it fairly easy to target them.  They missles are like long range spears. Took a while though.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Fsi-Dib on March 16, 2004, 06:06:10 pm
Favorite heavy ship: If you count Melnorme Trader in, I choose it. If not, tough luck.

Favorite light ship: Slylandro Probe. Fast and neat.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 16, 2004, 06:07:42 pm
How do you pilot that thing - I never seem to control it the way the CPU does... How much practice does it require?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on March 17, 2004, 04:25:47 am
As a pkunk "master", not much. All you need is fast reflexes and quick thinking.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 17, 2004, 05:54:04 am
The slylandro can be harder than the pkunk because you dont know which direction it facing. Its weapon is better, but less consistant than the pkunks. It also has the sudden reverse ability.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Terminator on March 18, 2004, 09:11:07 am
actually from what I've read it's n interia-less ship much like the skiff gravity has no effect on it but the differnce is that is constantly in motion.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on March 18, 2004, 10:26:00 am
True, and you can also stop in place if you are press the "thrust" key very quickly ::)


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 18, 2004, 05:03:32 pm
I forget - It does not get affected by the Chmmr tractor - correct?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 18, 2004, 06:52:30 pm
To stop you have to keep pressing the thrust key over and over again. I think thats what you meant, but I couldn't quite tell.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Culture20 on March 18, 2004, 08:06:43 pm
Gravity does have an effect on it, but only briefly; every time its engines get a chance to thrust, the game nullifies any attraction to the planet.
Cover a probe with VUX limpets and send it near the planet, and you'll see what I mean.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 18, 2004, 08:34:38 pm
I see what you mean.  - O and I have always wondered, once I teleported a skiff in the middle of the planet. It blew up.
Then I teleported a skiff to the right side of the planet (It was still in the planet, just slightly off center) And it Lived! - It was stuck, but I blew up 300 points worth of ships (awsome level)  because all their shots would hit the planet, they would hit the planet and my laser fired out of it! - Anyone else do that experience that bug?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 18, 2004, 08:37:06 pm
No, that has never happened to me. I have heard stories of it. It seems to only happen when I'm not around. >:(


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on March 19, 2004, 11:04:46 am
It is only stories... It happened to me many times that I teleported not in the center of the planet and got killed. I think someone here is lying...  ;D


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 19, 2004, 05:02:58 pm
Well if that is what you think...    

But it really did happen.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: NECRO-99 on March 20, 2004, 12:00:18 am
Assuming we're talking graphic size, not mass of said ships...
Favorite Heavyweight: Chenjesu Broodhome. Space artillery rocks.
Favorite Middleweight: Androsynth Guardian. As so eloquently put by Shiver, "OMGWTFBBQ!!!" ;)
Favorite Lightweight: Slylandro Probe: I was once chided for playing the Probe by an opponent. "Geez," he said, "You're like fighting Emperor Palpatine on speed!"
Lightweight Runnerup: Umgah Drone. Butt-slamming. If you haven't experienced it, do so.

The thing people have the most trouble with when flying the Probe is trying to discern a "front" and "back" of the ship. There isn't one. The whole thing is "ship", and "front" happens to be whichever way you're speeding along at given time. The Probe is easier to fly because you don't have to constantly push thrust, and when you do hit thrust, you get an instant 180, one of the most useful (what I consider) special abilities in the game. It's unaffected by gravity/Avatar sucking (unless limpeted, but why would you get stuck with limpets in the first place? :P), it's got an auto-aiming weapon, and it's just plain zippy. Only problem is weak hull.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on March 20, 2004, 03:00:27 am
>> "Butt-slamming. If you haven't experienced it, do so."

I'm sorry, that stuck me as funny.

I'm a big fan of the Yehat ships. Anything with a shield is great. It has
good thrust, decent fire power and a good turning rate. The only draw backs, I think, are the lack of top speed and the small size. A tiny crew and battery make this sucker unable to take punishment from faster ships.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 20, 2004, 04:32:45 am
I am a big fan or the blade, eluder, and the nemasis (I do not use marines with the nemasis, it is not worth the crew loss), though I am quite profitient with most ships.
Two ships which I have not learned to fly very well are the dreadnaught and the marauder. I hear that the marauder is possibly the best ship in the game, so I should 'learn.'


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Vassago_Umara on March 20, 2004, 04:42:49 am
But for certain enemys it is almost necessary to use the marines with nemesis.  The ships that I can't use at all are the Utiwig jugger and the Zoqfot stinger,  I can't time the sheilds on the jugger and never can get close enough with the stinger to do anything but maybe (emphasis on maybe) sting the ship once.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on March 20, 2004, 05:15:29 am
I'm terrbile with some of the little ships.
The Ugma, ZotFot, the Vux, the probe and the Pkunk.
By contrast though, I've beaten everything with the Thraddish.

I try to maintain a wide range of ships in my fleet though. Chmmr at
on end of the scale, the Skift at the other, with the Orz (love the Orz) in
the middle.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 20, 2004, 05:48:22 am
I like melee better when you can have one of each ship in a fleet. That would be my #1 suggestion (yes dj, even over online uqm)


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 20, 2004, 06:19:39 am
Zeep-eep - It is hard NOT to win with a Thraddash against a CPU - They just ignore the flames (and the damage that it is causing) and chases you. Every tried that against a human opponet?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 20, 2004, 06:44:52 am
Every ship is harder to pilot when playing agaisnt a competent human player. Not only the torch


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on March 20, 2004, 11:21:47 am
They don't ignore the flames, they just consider it as "lesser" threat. The probes run away from the flames unless you turn to another direction and then the probe moves right in the flames.

And btw, it isn't a good idea even over uqm online. Having 2 Terminators is a must.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Captain Smith on March 21, 2004, 07:03:08 am
Has someone added an online play feature to UQM or is that planned?  Been waiting to see how many people I can school...  8)

Quote
And btw, it isn't a good idea even over uqm online. Having 2 Terminators is a must.



Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 21, 2004, 09:30:00 pm
No one has done it, and I dont think its planned. All though if you know how to do it and your feeling generous ::)


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: ShofixtiWithAK-47 on March 22, 2004, 12:02:22 am
earthling cruiser, actually is much underestimated in power. I have a friend who can take an awesome cyborg dreadnought equally with one cruiser. Cruiser and Maurader. They use the same technique. Probably the most powerful in my opinion.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 22, 2004, 12:06:12 am
It is pretty easy to take a CPU with a earthling AS LONG as you stay near the edge. Try it with a human opponet though....


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 22, 2004, 12:07:55 am
Keep in mind that if the situation were reversed and he was talking about killing cruisers with dreadnaughts youd say that same thing. He is a human too.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: ShofixtiWithAK-47 on March 22, 2004, 12:10:10 am
actually, we did play cruiser vs dreadnought. human vs. human. The results are about the same because

1. point defense kills enough fighters to stay alive

2.the cruiser is as fast or faster then the dreadnought, and far more range/


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 22, 2004, 12:12:02 am
I am sorry - I presumed that you meant human - versus CPU.

Though I don't think that a dreadnought is slower than a earthling - Have to check on that.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: ShofixtiWithAK-47 on March 22, 2004, 12:14:03 am
ahhh..glad you finally didn't disagree falcon.  this is getting tiring.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 22, 2004, 12:17:19 am
If you think that I am just out to get you, than you are very wrong - I just don't get some of the things that you like.  You were the one that decided to post them, I am simple expressing my opionion. If you think that I am out to flame you than I suggest that you take a step back and take a deep breath.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 22, 2004, 12:22:54 am
As if said toghether. Star Control should bring people toghether ;D


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Death 999 on March 22, 2004, 06:08:05 pm
The dreadnaught is faster than the Cruiser, just a little tiny bit. If you doubt me, have both players be human, and race them.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: saros on March 23, 2004, 11:13:40 pm
Well, I haven't played many human/human fights, but my favourite ships are the Jugger, Fury, Skiff, Discriminator, Stinger, and Earthling Cruiser. The Jugger can take out every ship with power>20,and most of the other ships too. The Fury is an annoying opponent against almost everything. The Ariloulalee'lay is good for 'gravity' tactics. The Spathi...is one tough cookie. And the ZoqFot can kill even a Marauder(with great skill and lots of luck), and it can almost every time leave the battlefield with at least one succesful tongue attack done.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 24, 2004, 12:33:45 am
Is the Discriminator from sc3 or timewarp?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: ShofixtiWithAK-47 on March 24, 2004, 06:08:57 am
timewarp.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Culture20 on March 24, 2004, 06:33:42 am
Neither; SC1.  It was the Eluder's original name.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: shofixti with ak-47 on March 26, 2004, 12:49:37 am
I have a 3D0 at home, and lately I've been playing some serious human vs human, so please don't reply "it's different when you're playing a human" to this post

Anyways, a few things I've noticed.

1. Thraddash tricks are much harder vs humans, but are definetely possible, if done correctly. When fighting a slow ship, turn on the after burners when you're further away from them, then fly by very close to them. This doesn't work against a chenjesu, but a mycon, druuge(assuming it's gun isn't pointed directly at you), vux and syreen are all toast. Turn speed is very important.

2. Mrrnmrhm are really underrated. A good pilot can be very effective, especially against slower, bigger ships. any Mrnmrhm vs a chenjesu is sure to own.

3. A real challenging fight is Druuge vs any long range ship. A very good Druuge vs a good dreadnought captain is probably one of the most even-matched battles I've seen. Try playing a novice earthling cruiser captain vs an excellent druuge captain. Sort of a weird battle.

4. Zeep-Eep was correct in his evaluation of the Slylandro. Slylandro and Maurader are the two most effective ships in the game.

5. Against any good human pilot, almost any ship, umgah drone sucks. period.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 26, 2004, 03:15:07 am
Hey! The drone can be awsome. Its hard to get close to other ships, but they can't get close to you. You need to balance the shield and the backwards motion.
I normally play against a computor, so feel free to correct me.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: ShofixtiWithAK-47 on March 26, 2004, 03:20:06 am
Well, maybe you have a point, and we're just not too great drone pilots. But, for us, it's like you have one shot to get an accurate attack, because your energy doesn't get recharged. And once the drone runs out of energy, it's pretty much useless. Even gravity wells aren't much help for us, because there's no range at all. Maybe you have a different strategy?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 26, 2004, 03:34:59 am
Your energy recharges if you dont have your anti-matter shield.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on March 26, 2004, 06:37:48 am
....However it all returns in one big lump. You have to have the anti-matter field off for about 20 seconds before that happens though and if you turn the field back on it starts the count over.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Angus Thermopyle on March 27, 2004, 06:58:59 pm
I'm more a 'bang for yer buck' kinda guy. That being said, I like ships with low cost and high damage potential.

For that reason, I like to through a few VUXs and Shofixtis into my linup against my friends. VUXs are great a getting a good deal a damage off during the initial warp-in. And limpeting the enemy's best ship, thus crippling it.

Scouts are great for the coup-de-gras when your opponent's good ship is damaged, but still dangerous. Send that Scout into finish him off without risking one of your best ships.

As for my favorite heavy ship, have to go with the Dreadnaught. If nothing else, because it has a very good to outstanding chance of beating every ship in the game. Other big ships have 1 or 2 other ships that stop them easily (ie Druuge vs Chmmr).


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 27, 2004, 07:01:58 pm
When you play as a dreadnaught, what type of stratagy do you use agaisnt various ships. [shadow=green,left,300](I'm not that great with the bigger ships)[/shadow]


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Captain Smith on March 27, 2004, 07:32:19 pm
Basically what I do is against certain slower ships that can't deal with your fighters (Chenjesu can), send your fighters (Ur-Quan, Yehat, VUX, Mycon)...against some of the faster ones that don't steer well (Syreen, Orz, Melnorme, Zot-Foq-Pik), a few work to distract them long enough to either blow up or get shot by my fusion cannon.. with the faster ships that can outrun the fighters easily I usually just try to hit with the fusion cannon, or drop a couple of fighters out to harrass them.  Work with your fighters when you send them out.

Of course with a few ships (thinking Kohr-Ah & Utwig primarily but others are there as well), there's some specialized tactics.  Hope that helps some.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on March 27, 2004, 07:41:15 pm
The key to killing a marauder with a dreadnaugh is to get close enough taht you can hit him (because he has the superior range) but stay far enough from the fried. This leads to a lot of circling.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: LittleNicky on April 05, 2004, 12:22:49 pm
I think the dreadnaught does well to sacrafice 2 fighters to the Marauder fire ring as long as he times it to hit the marauder a second or two later - saves much damage overall.  Then you own the marauder at short range.

But we dont need to discuss best ships - we all have favourites and most special tactics for one ship against another fall apart when playing human vs human anyway.  What is important is the best ship to ship challenges.

Here are my favourites. (ranked by difficulty, shofixti cannot use self destruct, nor can Zoq Fot use pepper shaker, must be against computer on Awesome):

Warm up: Zoq Fot vs Marauder.
I can do three marauders, but my friend can do four or more. Its not that bad really.

Tricky: Shofix vs Mauler.
It wouldnt be so bad if they hadnt programmed the maulers with phsychic powers to predict where you will be in two seconds.

Rather Tricky:Shofixti vs Dreadnaught.
Its more fun and faster if you put the computer on standard difficulty so its just a straight shoot out.

Awfully Tricky: Fot vs Orz.  
There is something so right about eating their marines, but it isnt exactly easy

Too much spare time: Shofixti vs Airlou.  
With a full set of twelve shofixti my record is reducing an airlou to just two crew, remember the airlou must be on Awesome dificulty.  If you can kill even a single Airlou with nothing but shofix and not self destruct the i do indeed take my hat off to you. If the Airlou teleports into the planet and dies that way i say it counts as a fair victory but i lack the patients to try that myself.

Harder Still: Umgah vs Anything.
Poor umgah, i love them so, i even include them in my fleets sometimes as a tribute to them.  But their ship design..... whoever gave them 7 points when the fot and shofix have only 6 and 5 really needs to think a little more about that.

Perhaps in future versions the super melee Umgah could be corrected to their more accurate value of 4 (or even less?) points.

Finale Grande: Androsynth vs Chenjesu
This only counts if you do not bubble and never touch the chenjesu while in blazer, only side swipes after gaining the blazer damage from blazing a DOGI are permitted.  I have never accomplished this one either, nor really tried, but imagine it would be rather hard.  Perhaps a VUX gluber run will be required first to give you a fighting chance.  I only thought of this because i read somewhere that they are taking the 'permanent blaze' out of the game after mistaking it for a bug! What a shame!  You dont exactly get many complaints about power gamers exploiting this bug to wipe out entire fleets with a single Andro do you.  I think its just a neat little twist, very much in the spirit of a wacky game, and should be kept.  I wonder if anyone else feels the same.

Anyway, hope you have fun with these.  And if anyone with some say in the matter feels the same about the Andro then please save them before their hard earned DOGI energy revesal permanent blazer fireld technologies are taken from them forever.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: NECRO-99 on April 06, 2004, 12:35:44 am
Day late and a dollar short- I do believe the Andro's Permablazer ability is gone. Trust me, I play them ALOT.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on April 06, 2004, 12:41:34 am
Was that not taken out with 0.3? I remember doing it in 0.2.  8)

I forget, does a andro in blazer mode get slowed down by limpets?

EDIT: Nope - Does not seem to, wonder why?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: LittleNicky on April 06, 2004, 02:00:44 am
It doesnt make much sense that they should, if you can shoot the limpets down then a blazing wall of destructive energy should destroy them pretty easily too.

Poor Andro, they have it hard enough without making htem all gunky every time they fight a VUX.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on April 06, 2004, 02:57:56 am
Fav Heavy Ship:The Broodhome. The marauder may be more powerful, but I am more fluent with a broodhome.

The Dogies are the best distraction since they run away from weapons fire.

The expoding of the crystals is a very useful attribute. Arguably more useful than how the marauder saws stay in space.

Also, even though the marauder has fried (which kicks ass) the broodhome can release a lot of short ranged crystals at once. Not quite as good, but still a good defensive measure.

Stratagy: Like the marauder, rocket off the planET and stay long ranged. Try to keep a near contrant flow of crystals heading towards the enemy.

If you must fight close ranged, turn your broodhome to face the enemy and let her rip. Use the exposive crystals as defence from weapons. (They can take out earthling missiles very well).

Medium Ship: The Jugger. It takes a lot of practice but that shield can block anything forever!

Stratagy: Use the shield as defence and the weapon as offence (duh). To avoid losing fuel try flying dirrectly into the weapons fire, dont try to avoid it.

Spall Ship: Either fury or probe. They are pretty strait forward.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on April 06, 2004, 05:51:55 am
Quote
It doesnt make much sense that they should, if you can shoot the limpets down then a blazing wall of destructive energy should destroy them pretty easily too.

Poor Andro, they have it hard enough without making htem all gunky every time they fight a VUX.


It does not make sense to me because the adro still picks up the limpets. It does not destroy them.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Captain Smith on April 06, 2004, 09:33:40 am
The Andro takes limpets in regular mode, but are immune to them in blazer mode.

Quote
It doesnt make much sense that they should, if you can shoot the limpets down then a blazing wall of destructive energy should destroy them pretty easily too.

Poor Andro, they have it hard enough without making htem all gunky every time they fight a VUX.



Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on April 06, 2004, 06:47:32 pm
But why? It seems to me that the blazer mode would be affected.
Don't the limpets slow down all motion?

*pictures andro in blazer mode going nowhere because of limpets*  :o :o :o


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Death 999 on April 06, 2004, 09:27:40 pm
I think you are confusing being affected by limpets already in place, and letting new limpets get on-board.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: FalconMWC on April 06, 2004, 11:41:52 pm
hmm...

I try and make myself actually understandable.

From the game, and playing with a andro:

In all modes you CAN collect limpets.  (blazer, regular etc.)
However, only in regular mode does it affect. In blazer mode you go the same speed regardless of how many limpets you have collected on the sides of your ships.

My question is why? The limpets affect motion and being in blazer mode you certainly have plenty of motion.

Maybe it would be to big a disadvantage to have that happpen. Any other ideas?


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Chrispy on April 07, 2004, 03:22:12 am
It could be a consious balance decision, or it could just be a mistake in the coding. I think the intruder needs to be stronger so I dont understand how it could be a balance decision.


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: NECRO-99 on April 07, 2004, 04:35:41 am
I think any limpets stuck to a Guardian should burn off when it engages Blazer mode... ::)
[/sarcasm]


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: Nick on April 07, 2004, 12:58:53 pm
I think the limpets arent so much heat-seeking globs of inertia than they are goo that clogs up your engine/retro thrusters.  The comet is obviously not powered by the Andro's little engine but some sort of comet power and so the limpets have no place trying to slow the Andro down.

I wonder.... is the net-melee at all realistic?  Do you think it could ever happen? If so i think we should ask the 'people upstairs' or whoever programs it to maybe consider revising some of the point costs, which are intended for the main campaign game after all and not for melee.  I wouldnt want to mess with the perfection of the ships designs but there are some ships that consistently dont pay out against hunam players, and others that are always exrta value.

Im not disrespecting any of the ships here, but how often can you get your points worth out of an Umgah, Vux, or Illrath against another human player of decent skill.  On the same note would you really hesitate that much to take a Jugger for 24 points or a marauder for 32?

There are a few other ships that i think could be over priced - perhaps the Yehat (cool ship but 23 points?) and the Mrrrmhrrrm.  

I guess you could haggle over almost all the ship costs f you wanted to but amongst my friends there are a few ships that just dont get taken and a few others that are just always there.  Maybe other people will find this totally different amongst their friends?  Anyway,  IF a net game sprung up then tweaking the odd cost might bring a bit more variety into the fleets.


If the Net-melee never happens it might be a totally moot point, but even for two player melees a patch might be nice, its just a thought.....


Title: Re: The best ships
Post by: NECRO-99 on April 14, 2004, 02:22:42 am
PNF describes the VUX Intruder's limpets as such:

Quote
An additional Intruder offensive weapon is the "Limpet," which launches inside a protective cocoon which automatically targets enemy vessels. Upon nearing a target, the cocoon cracks, releasing the limpet to clamp down upon the enemy vessel's hull. The combination of inflicted damage and added mass decreases a starship's maneuverability. Only after battle can a damaged ship remove the offending limpets.


(http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/sc1/images/vux1_sc1.jpg)
That's gotta be a pain to clean up.

As for the Guardian, PNF says:

Quote
Guardian commanders can give orders in battle to collapse a ship into a solid ball, simultaneously engaging a set of powerful thrusters. The transformed vessel then hurls itself at an enemy at terrifying speeds, causing enormous damage if impact occurs.


Extra engines, probably installed in such a way that they weren't exactly useful unless the hull was compacted like it is in Blazer form. My guess is it has something to do with the separate rings coming together, but who knows.

ADD: Actually, if you know what you're doing with the VUX, you can get more than your money's worth out of them. Take a ship or two down and hamstring the one it dies to. I kinda like the Intruder, actually...maybe I'll do a write up on THEM too! :)