The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Slylendro on March 22, 2004, 04:38:47 pm

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Slylendro on March 22, 2004, 04:38:47 pm
Well what exactly did you expect from a 12 years old game?!?!
Try to compare it to the rest of the games in that time, what better games did you have? FROGGER???
12 years ago it wasn't as easy as today to make all charcters and aliens 3d and realstic! you want realistic aliens? go play Sc3, that's like the only thing that game is good at.

True, someone who just downloads and plays sc2 now here in 2004 will be disappointed from the game, that's why the re-release is mostly for old fans of the game, since new guys can't enjoy the game when they just see the graphic quality of the game(2d) compared to today's games(3d).

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: AnonomouSpathi on March 22, 2004, 04:59:45 pm
-The races of the galaxy cannot be taken seriously

.....?  You're kidding right?  Yes.  Exactly.  This isn't Final Fantasy Seven part two: insane man broods some more.  Many of them aren't supposed to be taken seriously.

-Hitting the planet is a problem

Did you invest in a complete set of manuevering and thrusting jets for your mothership?

-Game is boring.  Gather resources, spend it all on crew.

Don't get so many of your crew killed, and plan your harvesting routes more effectively.  Don't land on superhot planets unless you have the superhot planet landing shield.  Bring a full load of cargo pods, and do a big sweep of a selected area to make it efficient.

-Plot isn't so great

Sorry, but seing as you're skipping dialouge and you haven't completed the game, I really do have no choice but to discount your opinion here wholesale.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: FalconMWC on March 22, 2004, 05:38:47 pm
Perky, just a suggestion but, don't try to judge a game that you have not completed.

Also, No duh you would not like the storyline if you don't read the dialoges. That is like reading a book but deciding to skip everything in quotation marks after you did not like the first sentence. 100% of the books you read like that will have poor storyline.

This game is OLD - I am only three years older than it, so if you compare it to their age everying pales in UQM's presence. Sure there are high tech games out that are fun to play, but they JUST came out. I should hope they graphically beat a 12 year old game.

Point? Don't judge a book by its cover, don't judge a computer game by the first sentence.

BTW: If you want to do something challenging in the game without mineral gathering then....

Do what DJ and myself did. Play the game without starbase.
A. It is VERY hard.
B. No resource gathering!

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Death 999 on March 22, 2004, 06:34:40 pm
Oh, and like he'll succeed in doing that without knowing exactly where he's going.'
As for the criticism...

I am curious: how far did you get before you posted?

If you don't like the voices, TURN THEM OFF. The written dialog, however, is critically important. You will probably want to take notes.

As said earlier, turning jets and thrusters are your friends. To make more of these friends, go to the outfit starship section of the starbase display, and select 'module' and push up so the blinking cursor is on the outrigger of your ship. You should be able to figure it out from there.

Mining is a means to an end, not the end itself. There are MANY planets it is not worth landing on. Do not try to mine everything - you will, as you said, net very little. Be picky.
If you are still having a hard time gathering resources, ask Commander Hayes for advice on the matter. I disagree with him on a few finer points, but in general he knows what he's talking about.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: FalconMWC on March 22, 2004, 07:16:56 pm
Yeah - True, don't try the no-starbase thing until you have beat the game....

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: meep-eep on March 22, 2004, 07:17:54 pm
Im not perhaps the best person to criticize The Ur-Quan masters since I haven't player it that much. But It doesn't indeed mean that I shouldn't tell about what I feel about it.

So why DO you feel you need to tell that you don't like this game? Especially since you hardly played the game.

+ The idea is nice, althought not very new...

It was new 10 years ago, when this game came out. This is a faithful reproduction of the original, using the original sources and the original content.

- The engine is poor. This something like over ten years old game (original) ? Computers ten years ago were 486's but amazingly some of the combat is laggy with celeron 400MHz. I was thinking that is my computer really slow or the engine and it's programmers amateurs? Not very impressive.

This game was originally *made* for computers like the 386, for DOS (and later, the 3DO). You can't do the same tricks you did on the 486 or 3DO where you had direct access to the hardware on a computer that runs Windows. For instance, changing the color palette was a cheap operation back then. Just instruct the graphics card to do so. Nowadays, in most video modes, you'll have to change every pixel manually.
Also, the game uses more resources, because it *can*. There's always a tradeoff between speed and flexibility. With hardware nowadays, we can afford more flexibility. There's an abstraction layer which allows the game to be run on various platforms, including Linux, MacOS, and FreeBSD.
Also, the music on the PC was originally in .mod format. The music on the 3DO, which we are using per default, was stored waveform audio with barely any compression, and the decompression was done by the 3DO's DSP chip. We're using .ogg format, which is very much more CPU intensive to decode, but it brings back the size of those files by about a factor 6.
Then there's interpolation to make the original graphics look more smooth.
Still, on a Celeron 400, you should be able to have pretty smooth gameplay. Maybe you've got something running in the background (in the system tray perhaps?) which irregularly eats CPU time. Try shutting down as much as possible before starting the game.
Also, if your video card has decent OpenGL drivers, you can achieve a significant improvement by enabling OpenGL support. Supply '-o' on the command line. At some time this will be put in the setup menu, but we're not done yet. Which is another point; we haven't done much on optimisation yet.

- The graphics are too naive. It is certain that the game is old but GOD the graphics are naive. The races of the universe are comical and cannot be taken seriously.

You're obviously missing the point, as you clearly haven't given the game a chance yet. The races are supposed to be comical. The creators of the game have never let realism get in the way of fun. That is not to say that the game is inconsistent. It isn't. The story is very good. I'd even say that there have been very few games in recent and not so recent history that can claim this level of writing. Even the bad guys will prove to have a very good reason for doing what they're doing. Now how often can you say that in a game (or movie)?

If the graphics are terrible, the voice acting is more than terrible. Most of the actors are horrible overkillers like "WHATTTTTT-TA? DOESSSSS MY EYESSSSSSS-A SEEEEE A HJUMANNNNNNNNNNNN-A!?". God, just horrible. Violent spacespiders.. oh god help me! Most of the dialog, or would I say monolog is so boring that I just have to hit that space and skip the crap.

Again, you're taking it to seriously. And generally, the dialog is everything but boring. Only the things the commander has to say can be pretty boring the first time you read it, as he has a lot to say about the story background that means little to you. But just give it a chance.

- The playability is poor. Manual flying is horrible and hitting the planets is a tough job sometimes.

One of the first things you'll do in the game is upgrade your enginges and turning thrusters. That you haven't even done that yet indicates to me that I shouldn't have bothered on replying to your note in the first place.

- Game is boring! It's just hell of a boring: gather resources from planet. Do this hundreds of times wasting over 75% of your income to new crew and fuel. Kill me!

You should not mine every planet. The commander gives some useful tips on finding planets with lots of resources. I suggest you listen to him.
Mining will be only a small part of the game.

There is also probably something more that I don't remember now. I readed the preview of this remake from magazine. The writer told that this is one of the most greatest games ever made. I was very intrested until I faced the truth: this is lower than average space exploration. Thought I cannot tell the whole truth of the game since I haven't completed it.

I think that last remark is rather an understatement. You've obviously given up very quickly. This game is not for the impatient. Don't try to quickly finish the game. If you haven't got the time, play it another time.
But if you're prepared to spend the time, you're in for quite a ride. I fully agree with the writer of that magazine preview. Like every game (except pure action games), there may be a few boring parts, but it's all worth it.

But this is what I think about it now. I prefer something that has more intresting story, characters and so on.

If you find something like that, please let me know, because if this is what you care about, it won't get much better than SC2. And it's got lots of humour and great music too.

And don't get me wrong: I love old games and I don't need the latest graphics. This is just too damn annoying...

I'm sorry this is your first impression, which is unfortunate, because it really is a great game. I suspect you had the wrong expectations of this game. It's not something you do in your lunch break. It's a massive game (it's got 12 hours of dialog alone) which you really have to take your time for.

And don't kill me for this.

It really is YOUR loss. But I doubt you'll ever come back to read this.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Terminator on March 22, 2004, 07:35:12 pm
Perky are u nuts!? how old are u 9?10? When this originally came out it had the best graphics of it's day remember Doom, Duke 3D came out much later. When I first played it over 10 years ago I knew it was special name another game where ur enemy would give u the option of surrendering or dying.  The Plot is more in depth than u might think. The only minus I can think of was that it was written for DOS and current users have a lot of trouble running in windows I believe it used expanded not extended memory or the other way around which win does not use or accept. Don't judge a book by it's cover if u did u would like it because it have great cover art.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: musdanny79 on March 23, 2004, 12:31:00 am
I am new to this forum and do not consider myself a gamer.  I was born in 1979 and one of the only games that I truely enjoyed was star con II.  I can see that people who have just recently started to play the game might not thouroughly enjoy it, but from what I can remember it is the only game of its time that created its storyline with such great percision.  I was never able to finish the game due to computer failure, but ever since downloading the Ur-Quan Masters recently I have been able to spend countless hours playing the game.  I consider it a classic amoung computer games.  As for the story line, if you had been paying any attention you would have noticed the greatest story writing ever employed in a video game.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Chrispy on March 23, 2004, 01:31:24 am
I agree about the bad engeon, and the bad graphics, and maybe with the voice actings. Its true that the characters are developed suddendly, but thats a minor adjustment.
But bearing that in mind, this game has the greatest plot ever written. (Opinion yada yada). It has far more depth than any other computor game, and it can even compair with books and movies.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Michael Martin on March 23, 2004, 06:10:47 am
Chrispy: The point that Star Control 2 hit between RPGs and Adventure games is an interesting one, and one that was never really imitated.  (I haven't played Half-Life or Deus Ex, but they're the only ones that I can think of that do the same level of blend -- obviously with a different core genre, though!)

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Culture20 on March 23, 2004, 06:20:53 am
Perky obviously never played SC1 on an 8086 with CGA graphics.  :P
I think his intent was to compare it to today's games since UQM is being released "now" (future really).

So, to continue with that trend:  
+ UQM's plot still marks it high above other games today.  
+ UQM's cross-genre  gameplay makes it unique among today's 1st person shooters, FF adventures, and RT strategies.
+ UQM has nostalgia value, which few new games today have.
+ UQM is free!  ;D

= UQM's music/sounds are on par with games today; they were outstanding in SC2.
= UQM's graphics are comparable with today's 320x240 resolution games.  In SC2 they were good.
= UQM's engine is transparent on 300MHz machines, which are low-end enough to be a good measuring stick.

- Voice acting.  Games today hire real actors (usually D-grade). Thankfully, I never played 3DO, so I just don't download the voices. :)
- UQM has no netplay, which when compared to games today is a big minus.  Compared to games of the time however, SC2 was on-par; heck, URLs weren't in advertisements until 1994/1995.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Defender on March 23, 2004, 08:42:28 am
grab the pitchforks and torches, i feel theres going to be a lynching tonight... >:(


Title: Your onlyRe: Time for critics..
Post by: Lukipela on March 23, 2004, 12:31:17 pm
While I do respect your right to your own opinion, I have to say I'm a bit flummoxed as to why you feel it so important. Good and bad gamereviews are a part of every games life, and most (except the most rabid fans) learn to deal with it. Different strokes for different folks and whatnot.

However. You have stated your points against SC2, all of which have either been explained (it IS an old game), or dismissed (buy thrusters, talk to people). Your only comeback seems to be, "I still just don't like it". Fine. You don't have to. But that's not a very debatable point, so it really does not belong here. If you want to state truths that are (according to you) your own opinions and not debatable, might I point you to the fine website of (

Noone here cares enough for badly constructed arguments to want to flame you really, and if you don't like the game we don't really care either. But why is it necessary to maintain a presence on the forum of a site devoted to a game you really don't like? In what way does that satisfy you?

Really. Just walk away. You don't like the game, get on with your life and leave us old farts be.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Perky on March 23, 2004, 02:32:03 pm
I know im not good in english especially when it comes to english.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Lukipela on March 23, 2004, 06:50:28 pm
That reply, whilst otherwise making no sense, at least explains why you don't enjoy a story in english methinks.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Chad on March 23, 2004, 07:18:26 pm
Despite the obvious fact that the game is 10 years old (so that means the graphics and sounds, etc are even months older than that).... I think this sums it up... "games that appeal to people who are thoughtful, have imagination, and a sense of humor."  There are millions of people who just won't "get" Star Control.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Culture20 on March 23, 2004, 08:14:17 pm
I prefer NetHack. Thank you!

NetHack rocks, especially with the new bitmap front-ends.  It does the same thing that SC2's planet lander does: teaches people not to be too greedy.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: saros on March 23, 2004, 11:01:30 pm
Well, there is almost nothing for me to say in defense of my favourite game - Sc2. All the good things were already sent when I entered...but I'll build a new module in this topic too. First of all - the story. I am an old gamer, I've played on the PC for 20 years. I've seen a lot of games, I am personally a RPG-fan. But there is no game like Sc2. Of course, the sadly that then with their limited capacity they didn't make a DVD quality game!!! What do you expect??Back then, the graphics and especially the sounds were No1!
I have never heard of other sounds coming out so nicely out of a PC speaker! And the story...well, my friend, a better story for me is only the story in Betrayal at Krondor. And of course, everyone here forgot about the jokes throughout the whole game! Go chat with the Thraddash after making them your friends(and before that too). Finish the game and read all of the stuff the aliens are saying.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: *sigh* on March 24, 2004, 08:38:21 pm
why are you giving so much attention to this jackass?  ::)  just ban him for fwiffo's sake!  >:(

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: FalconMWC on March 24, 2004, 10:14:17 pm
Hey guys, watch the flaming/swearing. This is a clean forum and we like to keep it that way! - Thanks

Perky is intitled to is own thoughts. While many others don't agree, that still does not mean that you can hate him.

Also Perky, try not to stir the pot to much, you know what other people think on this subject.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: "sigh" on March 25, 2004, 06:30:29 am
[content deleted by Meep-Eep - let's try to stay nice, or at least, subtle ;) ]

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Lukipela on March 25, 2004, 11:13:38 am
This is so amazing. You prefer me as a 4 year old flamer but look at yourself: I KILL YOU UR-QUAN MASTER HATER!!!!1 I KILL YOUUUU!!!!1 Sc2IZBEZT!!!!!1


I'm sorry, what thread are you reading? When I read this thread, I see two kinds of replies.

1. People telling you why they like the game, and answering your criticisms
2. People wondering why you bother to review a game you've hardly played

Now granted, there is one comment about pitchforks, but that hardly qualifies as flaming. After you make your slightly unimpressive second comment about just not liking it, there are a few people who call into question you you bother debating it if your not going to reply to our points, but ratehr just flatly say "No". However, at no point in time does anyone criticise you any any other way than implying that you should perhaps have played more, and listened to the story. We all state that we're fine with you having your own opinion, it's stated in several places that if you don't like it, fine.

So where do you see any flames? Where is this hostility you seem to pick up? Where is the I kill you thingy you seem to have percieved?

Oh, and "sigh", way to be brave. Come in hidden behind a hidden name and insult the people who actually contribute to this forum. That really shows that you've understood what this forum is all about. Also, great comeback. The wittiness really stands out there mate.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Sage on March 25, 2004, 05:10:48 pm
So where do you see any flames? Where is this hostility you seem to pick up? Where is the I kill you thingy you seem to have percieved?

Perhaps the reason he sees flames is because he's reading the forum like he read the dialog in the game?

"Wow, this is really long. It must be a flame."
*skips to next post*
"Holy crap, there's more long posts! These people must hate me!"
*replies with some nonsense unrelated to anything remotely resembling reality*

This might be the closest thing to a flame directed at Perky on this entire thread. I imagine he probably won't read it anyway. Let's perform a test. If Perky is reading my post, I dare him to quote this sentence in his next post. Go ahead, you silly person you. Do it!

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: Sage on March 31, 2004, 06:35:20 pm
The nitpicker in me wants to disallow that, since you didn't quote me. But it doesn't matter.

The only person I see crying here is you, Mr. Perky. You come into a forum that is obviously devoted to a certain topic, tell everyone it sucks (which is your opinion, and you're entitled to it), then flame everyone that expresses their own opinions back. They even give you suggestions on how you might get a better experience out of it. Of all the posts made in this thread, you choose to remember the one and only comment about lynching, which if you weren't aware, was meant in jest.

If you don't like the game, don't like the opinions of the community devoted to it, and aren't contributing anything useful, then why even bother being here? To quote a friend of mine, it's like walking into a gay bar, and shouting out "What a bunch of fags." You're just asking for problems.

Title: Re: Time for critics..
Post by: *sigh* on April 01, 2004, 01:58:53 pm
heh. guys, have you ever heard the expression "attention whore"?



any mod, please close this topic  ::)

p.s. i'm *sigh*, not "sigh"  :P