The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Cronos on March 27, 2004, 03:26:04 pm



Title: Star Control IV
Post by: Cronos on March 27, 2004, 03:26:04 pm
If there were to ever be a fourth Star Control made, what do you guys think would make it a great game?

In my opinion, one that stays true to the SC1 and SC2, ignores SC3 entirely, makes use of modern technology while keeping simple and fun is definitely in it.

Still, I'm asking this for a reason, I wanna know what you guys think would make a theoretical "Star Control IV" not only a reality, but absolutely mind blowingly awesome.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: neogenx on March 27, 2004, 06:32:45 pm
You jerks need to stop acting like SC3 was the Ishtar of videogames.  SC3 was a great game, and the only thing disappointing about it was the ending.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 27, 2004, 06:52:01 pm
I didn't like sc3. It wasnt believable. All the bad guys were weak, all the good guys were strong.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: neogenx on March 27, 2004, 09:13:29 pm
Quote
I didn't like sc3. It wasnt believable. All the bad guys were weak, all the good guys were strong.


It's a SCIFI VIDEOGAME, plausability isn't a factor.  Not all of the good guys were strong, the utwig jugger isnt any stronger than it was in SC2, nor is the Dreagnaught or Avatar, and you're without all of these for most of SC3.

SC3 would be much worse if they weakened to league ships.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 27, 2004, 09:57:47 pm
They could weaken it by making better counter ships for the crux. But that is an oppinion matter, and not the argument here.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on March 27, 2004, 10:22:55 pm
Quote
You jerks need to stop acting like SC3 was the Ishtar of videogames.  SC3 was a great game, and the only thing disappointing about it was the ending.


And you need to realize it's a matter of opinion. Most people around here think that Star Control 3 sucks.
But even if you want to look at it objectively you'll find number of things that were screwed up:
1) Gameplay: they took the most interesting stuff out of it (hyperspace, planet landers), the 3D starmap gives me headaches, ditto pseudo 3D melee (switching to 2D during every battle is kind of frustrating)
2) Quests: most of them is repeating what you did in SC2
3) Plot: Earthlings get way too much praise,  all the mysterious things got answered (that alone is a mistake), the answers are crappy.
4) Graphics: I don't realy care about them, but one might expect that with time they get better, not worse...

Quote
It's a SCIFI VIDEOGAME, plausability isn't a factor.


Actually it is.
Yes, when creating fiction you can throw out some realism to increase entertainment, but there is a thin line between entertaining your audiance and causing it to yell "BULLSHIT!"


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 27, 2004, 11:05:11 pm
In my opinion, the most interesting part of sc2 was the conversations. And to be fair, sc3 didn't mess that up completely. When you first talk to the spathi. heh heh. Some other memeral quotes. "desistify all functioning".
I think it was the game play that screwed up sc3.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Terminator on March 28, 2004, 01:38:09 am
I agree a portion or the SC3 (no flames plz) races are just simply unbelieveable like the Ur-Quan siding with the alliance acting as servants, another thing I noticed is that there is no music when u communicate with aliens, then again there is not much music in the game to begin with the little music there is sets a solemn tone with a proable reason for it's failure.  

TERMINATOR - the obnoxious one

And I mean NO FLAMES about SC3 this time


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 28, 2004, 03:46:44 am
There was music when I played, but I used the massive installer. It kept freezing when I talked to the humans, and that damn music kept going. MIDI files are bad, but the tunes wernt all bad. I loved those bass licks in the earthling music.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Shiver on March 28, 2004, 04:06:35 am
This topic name bothers me, because Star Control 4 (they don't use roman numerals with these games) implies that 3 was not a piece of crap. People say "a real Star Control 3" instead of Star Control 4.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 28, 2004, 04:55:01 am
But if you made a sequel to sc2 ignoring sc3, it could still be called sc4. Depends on your point of view.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on March 28, 2004, 05:18:24 am
What about SC 2 and 1/2? You could have the timeline between - No hard feelings!  ::)


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Defender on March 28, 2004, 07:22:03 am
Quote

Actually it is.
Yes, when creating fiction you can throw out some realism to increase entertainment, but there is a thin line between entertaining your audiance and causing it to yell "BULLSHIT!"


good answer!

~DEFIANT


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 28, 2004, 07:45:06 am
Well getting back on track:
I think that starcontrol IV should have the same setting as sc2, and take place directly after sc2. There should not be that many more races, like 1 or 2, but lots of new ships would be nice.
One of the hardest things to decide abotu it is the fate of the ur-quan. Should they learn there lesson or be further bittered. Or maybe some ur-quan should learn there lesson and some should be further bittered.


A wacky idea:
Contradicting what I said ^, sc4 could have a new style. It could be a rpg where you pick a race and bye a ship, and fly around, and explore planETS, and do quests and so on.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on March 28, 2004, 04:05:12 pm
Quote
A wacky idea:
Contradicting what I said ^, sc4 could have a new style. It could be a rpg where you pick a race and bye a ship, and fly around, and explore planETS, and do quests and so on.


A nice idea. I've been thinking about something like that myself. I was also thinking about the resource gathering system. Since all the species got liberated, their starbases should repair and recrew your ship for free (if you're in the Alliance navy). But if a starbase was out of  range you could send a lander on a planet collect some minarals and transform them to fuel.
Every mineral would have a different exchange rate. For example:
1 Common elemnt: 0,125 fuel
1 Corrosive: 0,25 fuel
1 Noble gas: 0,5 fuel
1 Radiocative: 1 fuel
1 Exotic: 4 fuel

Base and precious metals and rare earth's elements could be used to repair your ship


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Megagun on March 28, 2004, 04:20:36 pm
Whoa, you spelled planets right?  ;)

Okay, here are my opinions.
First, on sc3
1) Sc3 wasn't bad! It was bad as a sequel to Sc2, but it wasn't bad as a game itself...
2) Indeed, the pseudo 3d view sucked. But they put a 2d view in, luckily.. :P
3) The music was bad..
4) Puppets? Whatthe? Is sc3 the puppet show or what?
5) Green Quans dont turn black! The original brown one changed into green AND black! Not green turned into black!!!


And here are my ideas of Realsc3/Sc4/Sc2.5

1) Same space as before, but somehow enlarged, so Sol is near more stars, or Sol lies somewhere else in Hyperspace (NOT truespace!)
2) Maybe its nice if you can play as a different race? Each with its own spacestation?
3) Maybe a extra gamemode? Like Trading and Battling for your side? Having mass-battles in space?
4) Battling with whole fleets should be nice, especially if you do Mass battles in space.. Nice AI should be made though...
5) Add more interactivity to the game, such as bars where you could talk to various aliens, and a Hyper Melee sim where you can actually simulate battles with the various aliens on the ship, when you win, you get Expandation Points for your Simulated ships, and you get some In real life RU's. With those EPs (expandation points) you can upgrade your Simulated ships (the ships in the Hyper melee sim) and battle more. This creates some kind of competition between the guys at the bases. And ofcourse it would be nice to actually beat Hayes in your new modified Spathi ship, the "Starrunner" ;). More interactivity? Classic battle simulations, contacting aliens to join your fleet, going piratey.
6) TRY to keep sc2.5/Realsc3/Sc4 as close to Sc2 possible, though. Why? We all like Sc2, right? If you make another Sc2, with a new story and maybe some extras, we would all like it, right? If you add something new like the 3d starmap, some people don't like it anymore, right? Got the point? good!

Some story ideas:
1) The spathi show their true identity: THE ULTIMATE EEEEVIIILLLLL
2) The black and green Quans merge together to form the Brown Ur-Quans! RUN AWAY FWIFFO!!!
3) The earthlings start to go to the evil side! Go rebellion!
4) The Yehat are on a mission to slay the evil Quans! Stop them, or fight with them!
5) Missions for your race to complete, such as kill off some pkunks, slay some druuges, *dance* with some Orzes.

That's it... it is...


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 28, 2004, 07:13:56 pm
I actually think that sc4 should be significantly different than sc2. Sc2 was good because its different.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on March 28, 2004, 07:51:54 pm
I would like to see the storyline something like this......

You are a earthling captain and crew, on another planet. You have been put on the planet because with the crew because:

A. You have been banished for something you did not do.
B. You have been called crazy and sent away because of a hullucation you had. (Good way to introduce the plot)
C. (any suggestions?)


Either way, you are on a planet with your crew and the top brass on earth don't exactly like you.

While you are gone, the earth can:

A. Have a civil war and the "earthling baddies" take over.
B. The goverment corrupts.
C. (Any suggestions?)

Anyway, you can find the plot of the game, realizing that you need to do soemthing, you repair and take off in your very, slow, poor, ready-to-explode-at-any-moment ship and take off to try and do the quest.

The first year you can spend pirating the enemys ships and selling them to a friendly species. (Not the humans remember)
You can then build better and better upgrades and ships,  till you are ready to do the quest.

So what do you guys think - Is this trash a a half-decent storyline - Any suggestions would be welcome.




 


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: ShofixtiWithAK-47 on March 28, 2004, 09:46:23 pm
C. The slave sheild turned every human into drooling zombies, which have no intention but to harm.

C.(in accordance)-The zombies begin a giant zombie war, in which half of them try to eat the other half for lack of true flesh around.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on March 28, 2004, 11:53:51 pm
Unless your serious, you might want to use that idea here:
http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=offtopic;action=display;num=1079997800

Otherwise if you are being serious, that conflicts with quite a bit of SC2.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 29, 2004, 12:08:07 am
I think the first thing to do when deciding a game is what happens at the end of the war.
-Do the utwig and the supox defeat the ur-quan?
-Do the ur-quan surrender or die? Or do they run away?
-What happens to the ilwrath and the mycon, who are willingly part of the hierachy? Do they follow their religeon to the death, or do their gods change will. Maybe some stay religeous fanatics, and some become atheists.
-What happens with that war between the thraddash and the ilwrath. Are they dead? Are they weakend? Does one survive and the other not?
-There is still a living dnyarri, what happens with the guy? Hes gotta be dangerous. Maybe with the amplification of the ultron he can take over some more races. That would be reason for a war.
-Do the yehat and the pkunk merge or what?

I think we've already made some theories about the orz ariloo and androsynth. That would be a cool thing to impliment, but we first need to answer these questions.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on March 29, 2004, 12:30:43 am
Quote
-What happens to the ilwrath and the mycon, who are willingly part of the hierachy?

Only the Mycon willingly joined the hierarchy.
Ilwrath are generally Eeeevil (tm) but they could be too weak after the war with Thraddash to cause any trouble.

Quote
-There is still a living dnyarri, what happens with the guy?

He's dead, he couldn't get out of Vindicator's storage bay as it crashed into Sa-Matra.

Quote
-Do the yehat and the pkunk merge or what?

I think that even if the yehat were to be completely "consumed" by the pkunk it would take a lot of time. So during the sequel you'd have both species.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 29, 2004, 12:33:53 am
Oh right, the dnyarris dead. Thought I had a good sequel idea there.
Anyone know how he survived. Maybe theres more.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Megagun on March 29, 2004, 12:41:42 am
No! The Dnyarri is still alive! Remember the ending sequence, where the Dnyarri said that it escaped in the last minute?

Tell us your ideas! ;)


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 29, 2004, 12:45:39 am
Did the dnyarri escape in the last minute? I thought he died.
Anyways what was the dnyarris' motives for controlling the sentient millieux? Just for power? Maybe the ur-quan attacked them, and they decided to fight back.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on March 29, 2004, 12:47:54 am
The ending sequence was kidding - He died - Now maybe if a umagh captured a talking pet and did the same thing over again.......


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 29, 2004, 12:53:26 am
Where do the dnyarri live? Where did the blobbie find him?


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 29, 2004, 01:09:23 am
Answering my question:
Quote

Well Ariloulaleelay, who kind of our neighbors, gave us Talking Pet
hoping we could heal it more severe injuries, which we did.
While we working on it, we do routine brain structure scan
and discovered that creature had extemely sophisticated set of neural pathways
even more complex than own!
Further analysis showed that with minor genetic manipulations
Talking Pet intelligence fully realized, perhaps even to sentience!
Little did know what monster we creating.
Only a few hours after injected nanots with modification program, creature wakes up.
Almost immediately, took control of Hospital... then city... then whole planet.
We try to resist, but creature, even in a drugged, weakened state, too strong.
From that day on, we just mindless slaves who lived only serve Talking Pet, and `Big Plan'.
What `Big Plan'?
We never quite sure about details of `Big Plan', except it involved getting revenge
and mean LOTS of revenge...
against Ur-Quan masters.

If the ariloo have contact with the dnyarri, maybe they have something to do wtih the Nggn (spelling may be wrong)


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on March 29, 2004, 01:11:40 am
The arlou got it from a ruined dreadnought though.

Also, aren't Nggn playtoys for the alruo?



Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 29, 2004, 01:42:52 am
So are all the talking pets in each dreadnaught sentient, or just this one.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on March 29, 2004, 01:52:35 am
Quote
So are all the talking pets in each dreadnaught sentient, or just this one.


Did you even play the damn game Chrispy?
On board of every dreadnought there is a sub-sentient talking pet used as a translator.
Arilou found a crashed dready, noticed that the Talking Pet survived but was badly injured, so they took it to the Umgah who are expert medics in our region of space. Umgah noticed that the Talking Pet's brain has been tampered with so they reversed the process. The Talking Pet regained sentience and took control over Umgahs' minds.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 29, 2004, 02:16:24 am
Ah right. I never made the conectiong that the tampering was done by the ur-quan. :-[


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Unkillable_Cat on March 29, 2004, 04:14:21 am
You need to spend some time with the Melnorme.  ;)


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on March 29, 2004, 04:37:35 am
I'm replaying the full game now, and enjoying the many memories.  ;DAh what a great game.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on March 29, 2004, 05:48:31 am
Just a suggestion, but apoligize to the vux, warp out and do it again and again... - Get some REAL funny conversation.

BTTT (Back-To-The-Topic) Anyone have any real suggestions for my storyline?


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Matticus on March 31, 2004, 09:08:34 am
I think it's possible the Dnyarri survived. The psychic shield was not 100% effective. If you threaten the Dnyarri with death after the whole Umgah debacle it will say that it has found a weakness in your psychic shield and compels you to bring it aboard. If you keep asking the Dnyarri about its mental powers after it's already aboard then eventually it will use its mental powers to compel you to end the conversation by talking about flowers. In fact, it's able to do the same thing to all the starbase personnel who question it too closely, according to the report you get if you bring it back home.

How convenient that the Dnyarri tells you it's trapped during your final conversation with it. Nobody would look for it if they thought it was dead. But who's to say it didn't find a way to compel someone to bring it in the escape pod? Maybe they thought they were saving a pot of flowers instead of a Dnyarri. You just never know, there's a lot of wriggle room in the story on that point.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Cronos on March 31, 2004, 08:31:05 pm
An idea on the storyline angle...

The Druuge, incensed after the human captain "stole" the Utwig bomb from their "Rightful" possesion, begin expanding their space voraciously some fifteen years after the destruction of the Sa-Matra.

Encountering the weakened Mycons, the druuge quickly enslave them. Using their regenerative capabilities and such, the Mycon slave workers are genetically altered to become the perfect slaves for the druuge, boosting their power and galactic influence dramatically.

In the meantime, it has recently surfaced that the hastened process has resulted in a critical flaw within the Chmmr. As a race, the Chmmr are slowly, but surely dying unless they can be saved somehow and the imperfections in the hybridisation process can be corrected.

The Ur-Quan, both Kohr-Ah and Kzer-Za have been placed under a treaty very much like the Versailles treaty germany was forced to sign in the wake of WW1. As a result, both Ur-Quan sub-species are incensed, whether their role will continue to be that of evil or turn to ultimate good depends on whether the wreckage of history can be avoided.

Despite all the importance of these events, a dark shadow wings it's way from the void of intergalactic space...

There, that should help get the ball rolling :)


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on April 01, 2004, 02:41:55 am
Maybe the druuge start making super weapons out of the mycon egg case fragments they pay so much for.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: ikachu on April 01, 2004, 09:29:17 am
Hey all, my first post, so be gentle:

Anyway, let's say the following happened:

The Sa-Matra is defeated and both subspecies of Ur-Quan are thrown into chaos.  This allows the combined fleets of the Earthlings, Syreen, Yehat/Pkunk, Chmmr, Shofixti, Arilou, Orz, ZFP, Utwig and Supox to win a string of victories against the Ur-Quan.

The weakened fleets of the Kzer-za/Kohr-Ah begin a mass exodus in the direction where the Kohr-Ah originated ('east'), because there are no races left in that path to get in their way.

Their resources depleted, the allied races are unable to pursue the fleeing Ur-Quan to deal them a crushing defeat, and instead turn inward to reconstruction.  Years of peace and relative quiet in the galaxy ensue.

As spheres of influence expand, disputes over territory begin to occur more and more frequently.   The new alliance becomes entangled in a web of secret treaties, economic arrangements, political mechinations.  Leaders grasping for power become jealous of the clout of the captain, and volunteer him to lead an expedition to liberate worlds enslaved by the Ur-Quan.  Jaded by the highly political nature of the New Alliance, the captain is all too happy to leave.

Anyway, that's the setup.  Then various things can happen like there are people on the mission that have covert agendas, some of the races that are freed aren't very friendly, some races have moved in during the Ur-Quan's absence and don't appreciate old races reclaiming their territory, there are still some Ur-Quan battle thralls that were left behind to guard the sector, etc..


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on April 01, 2004, 07:21:19 pm
Not a bad idea but, I have one problem with it.

The ur-quan spend their lifes fufilling the task of slave shielding/killing the other creatures. If we want to go out and free them, that will take a long while to travel - let alone talk. Unless we found a precursor travel device........   :D


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on April 02, 2004, 02:42:57 am
Its a nice setting but it needs some meat. Some quests and such.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: DorgoDorato on April 12, 2004, 12:57:32 pm
It's like Silent Hill 3, it's the sequal to Silent Hill 1, and Silent hill was irrelavant to the story, but it was still called Silent Hill 3 and not "THE REAL" Silent Hill 2


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Tiberian on April 12, 2004, 02:17:17 pm
Personally I don't like the idea of Ur-Quan remaining as our primary enemy after their defeat in the hierarchy war. In this point I prefer the SC3 view that the Kzer-Za, who were not actually bad species, submitted and accepted the fact that since they could not enslave the new alliance, they could as well discard their doctrine and join the alliance. I also like the SC3 view on the Kohr-Ah situation. They ARE 'bad species' and as said in SC2, they haven't been sane in a long time. They are trapped in an endless 'eternal doctrine'. So the Kohr-Ah refuse to join the alliance, they start making 'evil plans' on how to continue their eternal doctrine. The Kzer-Za (being so nice) let the Kohr-Ah live aside themselves, not knowing about their 'evil plans'. Later on these evil plans initiate some 'problems' for the alliance, and mostly to Kzer-Za. This also results in the loss of confidence in the whole Ur-Quan race inside the alliance.

Conclusion: I don't see the Kzer-Za being our enemy after their defeat in SC2, but the Kohr-Ah remains an enemy to all sentient life.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Raveolution on April 25, 2004, 11:17:47 am
How about
Star Control XP?  ;D


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Lukipela on April 25, 2004, 07:14:40 pm
Quote
Not a bad idea but, I have one problem with it.

The ur-quan spend their lifes fufilling the task of slave shielding/killing the other creatures. If we want to go out and free them, that will take a long while to travel - let alone talk. Unless we found a precursor travel device........   :D



Something similar came up in discussion a long time ago over here. As an excersise for the younglings, consider this:

The Kzer-Za have slaveshielded many worlds. All through their space, a band of  red slaveshields glitter like a string of rubies. One of the first tasks of the Empire of Lukipela is to find these worlds, and restore freedom to those poor species forced to live in bondage for so very long. The task is not without risk however, as some thralls follow their old masters with fanatic zeal, and squads of Kzer-Za remain hidden in different quadrants, overseeing their Hierarchy.

But even so, the Empire discovers to it's peril, what is bound under some shields would be much better left alone, than released upon the Quadrant. During a routine search, [a small bit into the game, after liberatinga few races and having a few new Thralls pop up], a single slaveshielded world is found. No spacestation orbits this world, that orbits a lone sun, guarded by a squad of Kzer-Za, who fight til the bitter end to prevent the Empire from reaching this world. And with good cause. For when the shield is lifted, what rises from the surface quickly comes to threaten the universe as we know it...


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on April 25, 2004, 11:47:59 pm
hmmm....

How is the Empire of Luki going to travel to all those places? Have not the Ur-quan been at this their entire lives?



Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Lukipela on April 26, 2004, 02:12:10 am
They have neither Portal Spawner technology, nor have they stumbled upon some Androsynth data showing all those hidden QuasiSpace exits to other parts of the Galaxy.

Also, a lone ship can traverse HS a lot faster than a fleet trying to conquer everything in it's way.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Death 999 on April 26, 2004, 11:34:47 pm
If what was on the surface was so threatening, then how did it lose against the Kzer-Za? Sa-Matra, I guess...


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Vassago_Umara on April 27, 2004, 12:29:30 am
I'd say if they lost, it had to be because of the Sa-Matra.  Also is that factory on Unzerfelt (I can't remember how its spelled right now) going to be put in full production making precursor flagships?


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Lukipela on April 27, 2004, 12:52:25 am
Maybe they only lost after the Quan blasted the entire planetary system to bits, yet could not (even with the Sa-Matra) destroy their last bastion?

Maybe they are extremely dangerous, yet possesed no capability of spaceflight before the Quan arrived. After being "infected" and losing some ships to the surface, a hasty slaveshield was erected to ensure that the "filth" could niot spread. the only race never to be offfered the choice of Thralldom, because their freedom would always be a threat.

Maybe they weren't as dangerous when sealed, but have evolved?


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Death 999 on April 27, 2004, 07:56:56 pm
Maybe they were powerful pacifists who never resisted, only hiding their technology.

After the slave-shielding, a charismatic leader emerged who broke the long tradition and directed the energies of the species toward gaining freedom. But no half-measures, they would simply work on science and weapons engineering until they could beat the Ur-Quan. And for the past 200 years, the entire civilization has poured its collective energies (which are still internally peacefully aligned) into inventing newer and better ways of blowing stuff up.

When you let them out, they start serious production. At first it seems safe since they only have prototypes (never had to actually make a production model), but within a few weeks they are rapidly producing mining ships, and exponentially expand until they have enough for their superweapon.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Vassago_Umara on April 28, 2004, 04:26:20 am
I think that would be the best storyline, that they weren't powerful or aggresive when they where sheilded but during their imprisonment they became resentful and hateful of the Ur-Quan.  Their way of life fundamentally changed and they began to furiously seek new technologies to destroy the Ur-Quan.  However I think that if a species was going to develop technologies while they were imprisoned it would be technologies intended to release them from the planetary sheild.

Maybe they did develop a way to excape and when you encounter them they have had years to claim a large amount of resource full planets and want nothing to do with the free alliance of stars and are very hostile towards the first scout ships sent their way.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Reldric on April 28, 2004, 08:33:27 am


   Everyone here has excellent ideas, but it seems to me that one of the most interesting things about star control 2 (i agree 3 wasent very good)  was the "alienness" of the ORZ.  
 
     I know that when I was playing and they suddenly (ate?) the Androsynth I was seriously creeped out.  All of the other races are roughly human, the Ilwrath are psychotics, the Yehat avengers, the Ur Quan are out for revenge, the Pkunk are hippies, and the Thraddash are bullies.  But my point is they are all easily understood and so are their motives.  But the ORZ?  I still dont have a clue and I beat the game 3 times.  

    Anyway, my point is this, I like the idea of the Ur Quan slave world opening up releaseing (?).  But why did the (?)  have to be pacifistic when they were attacked?  Mabye they were simply just leaving their planet when the Ur Quan showed up.  Remember the huge fleet the Ur Quan had in number 2 was AFTER fighting a decade long war with the alliance.  So, mabye the Ur Quan simply outnumbered the mystery race and sealed them because they were simply too "alien".

  Also, I might be a cynic but I think that after a major victory crushing the most powerful force ever met by sentient races in known history Humanity would have a bit of a big head.  We would probably be in the midst of "civilizing" known space whether it wanted to be civilized or not. So, when our noble and prestigious team of volunteers cracks this slave shield, realizes what they just opened up (something vaguely zergish?  berserkerish? (the giant self aware machine destroy all life type, not the crazy scots)) No one is inclined to believe them until planets start disappearing.

    As for the Kohr-Ah and Kzer-Za, after 25+ (I cant remember how long it went on)  the alliance cannot simply forgive and forget and imprisons them both on their homeworld after killing the rest.

        Comments anyone?  This is my first attempt at a story so any feedback is welcome, including, if you must, flames.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Death 999 on April 28, 2004, 08:48:47 pm
The reason I had them be pacifists was that if the Ur-Quan saw that they had actually MADE an enemy, that is, they did not fight before but now they do... that would get them thinking.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on April 29, 2004, 08:41:43 pm
The problem with that theory, is that the The Oath Of Fealty requires every surrendering race to go back to pre-atomic level of thechnology.

Yes they might develop their technology underground, but I doubt that the Ur-Quan would not see it, if they were able to see something miles below our polar ice cap.

They could try to research everything strictly theoretically, but with such approach you'll quilckly face a dead end.
You simply can't research something without necessary tools
(Try to find out something about the physics of sub-atomic particles without a particle accelerator)

Besides all this would not fit to what Luki has said.
If they were pacifists, why didn't they get a starbase.
If they were pacifists and now they are technologically advanced, and generally wise, I think you might be able to talk them out of Anihilating The Universe.

I much more like the idea of them beeing zergish.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on April 30, 2004, 12:57:20 am
Well, considering that the Ur-quan had not droped by for about a year, the earthlings had plenty of time to shield from sensors and devolop weapons....


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: J on April 30, 2004, 12:13:56 pm
I still reckon an SC prequal would rock.
You would play an Ur-Quan back in the days of the sentient Milelu.
The storyline could be about you trying to help liberate the Milelu from the Dynyarri, among other things.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: 0xDEC0DE on April 30, 2004, 06:47:28 pm
You reckon that it would be fun to play a 4m long predatory catepillar that is filled with bloodlust whenever another being gets too close to you?  I would posit that most other people would have trouble identifying with a main character like that.

The Ur-Quan (and all the non-human races in the Star Control universe, for that matter) are quite alien; they don't think as we do, and their instincts are different from ours.  I'd think any attempt to make them playable characters would have to make them far more "human" than they are, in order to make them more accesible to new players, and to make any in-game puzzles solvable by human players.  While some might find that acceptable (even desirable) I'd think it would detract from their mystique.  For a real-world example of this phenomenon, see Star Control 3, where the Ariloulaleelay were turned from a "race of mysterious dimensional travellers with motives and an agenda that we could not possibly understand", into "a race of DNA farmers".


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Death 999 on April 30, 2004, 07:44:58 pm
Though it might be possible to have SOME alien playables, like Fwiffo and Talana, I agree in general, 14598366.

In particular, playables should not be:
Pkunk, Mycon, Melnorme, Arilou, Orz, Umgah, Chmmr, Chenjesu, Mmrnmhrm, Taalo, Supox, Shofixti, Utwig, or any flavor of Ur-Quan.

I guess that leaves Yehat, Ilwrath, Thraddash, Spathi, Syreen, Zoq, Fot, Pik, and VUX... and of course Human.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on April 30, 2004, 10:12:45 pm
Vux, Thraddash, Spathi  and ZFP don't seem playable to me. For instance, no human will take the option to run from shadows. Also, they will probaly not admire the ememy that beats them. Not to mention that the ZFP are really three people. That sort of cancels them out completely. As for the Vux, well we don't hate humans, do we?   ;)


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Tiberian on April 30, 2004, 10:38:30 pm
SC3:

The Vux don't really hate humans, deep down they are just sad and jealous because they are *incomplete*


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: J on May 01, 2004, 05:32:11 am
You are forgetting that these are BROWN Ur-Quan, not the pain stricken Green and Black we know.

The brown ur-quan were solitary explorers in the Milelu. They had to be equipped to make first contacts without incident, they would not have been in he Milelu if they were predatory.

All species have instincts, including human. Part of being sentient is that we are smart enough to supress those instincts and act out of intelligence instead.

Yes the Ur-Quan are different, more honour bound perhaps, but they were not an evil species. The greens have demonstrated that they are highly intelligent and posess their own morality.
The entire reason they fight the Kohr-Ah is because they oppose the extinction of all alien life.

Remember, he who codes a game controls the conversation tree. The game would TEACH you how to think like an Ur-Quan by the choices it gives you in each conversation. Part of the fun is learning which one is the right or wrong one to pick.



Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: J on May 01, 2004, 05:34:05 am
One last thing, which is a key point to the prequal idea.
SC2 was so great because it was DIFFERENT to SC1

Nobody likes a rehash for a sequal.
Playing an Ur-Quan is CERTAINLY different, and it would interest me a great deal.

The races you have listed as "playable" I can see you have listed because they have inherantly "human" personalities.
We have played a human in SC2.
Who wants to play more of the same?


In my opinion, the thing which threatens to ruin a sequal the MOST of all, is the tendancy for a sequal to fall into a stereotype of itself.

Look at the Command and Conquer series for an example.
Started out great, then every sequal since was too hung up in perserving the features of the original to come up with new interesting ideas and plotlines.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Vassago_Umara on May 01, 2004, 06:03:13 am
The ability to imagine is a human trait, not much imagination playing as a human all the time.  If you couldn't place yourself in the role of an alien species bent on domination or destruction I pity you.  
Ever played as the bad guys in any game?  Warcraft, starcraft, HOMM, etc...  I think the idea of playing as an early Ur-Quan, pure before the Dynarri or even during or after the Dynarri, would be great.
Flying to new worlds and instead of making allies, offering ultimatums, blasting civilizations to the stone age or making them your battle thralls.  Ah sounds very fun to me indeed!


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: FalconMWC on May 01, 2004, 07:42:19 pm
Sure that sounds fun, for a little bit - After a while it would become pretty boring.

What I guess I am trying to say is that (lets take the Thraddash for example) is this:

You have just been defeated by and are given the offer to join the enemy fleet or make your own to evenually challenge the on that beat you.  Most people would chose option B as opposed to someone that gets bossed around in the big fleet.

Is someone seeing my point? I am not against it per-say. Just, thinking over the details and trying to think of were conflicts might arise.  

 


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: J on May 04, 2004, 12:50:33 pm
I dont understand your post at all Falcon.

If your implying that a prequal would involve conquering other races, your wrong because the brown ur-quan didn't do that.
(well, not voluntarily)

A musing I just had:
At some point in the game your entire race would get subjugated by the Dynyarri, according to SC2 history.

Perhaps your ship is the only ship which carries a Ta'alo envoy on board (being close friends of the Ur-Quan)

That would give rise to the situation of you being the lone free Ur-Quan fighting for the survival of your race and many others, when even your own race will blow you up if you are caught.

Perhaps if you are able to pull it off right, there is an alternate ending where the Ur-Quan and Milelu arent completely obliterated. An alternate future in which SC2 would never have happened.

Imagine what the Milelu would be like in SC2 time if it had survived the Dynyarri.


WAIT!
I HAVE IT!

When the captain from SC2 was missing after the explosion of the Sa-Matra, what had actually happened is that he had been transported back in time to the time of the original Dynyarri / Milelu conflict.

A lone human, working with the last free Ur-Quan and Ta'alo to save the Milelu.

Im sure you could also involve the Mark II somehow. Perhaps it was the device used to pull you through time.

Time travel plots make people groan... iunno, Im thinking as im typing here, can you tell ?


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on May 04, 2004, 08:07:49 pm
Quote
WAIT!
I HAVE IT!

When the captain from SC2 was missing after the explosion of the Sa-Matra, what had actually happened is that he had been transported back in time to the time of the original Dynyarri / Milelu conflict.

A lone human, working with the last free Ur-Quan and Ta'alo to save the Milelu


...causing a paradox that would end all time and space as we know it, because if he went back in time and changed the history, then he would have no reason to blow up the Sa-Matra, which means that he would not go back in time and he wouldn't change the history, so he would blow up the Sa-Matra and go back in time and..... Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Culture20 on May 04, 2004, 08:32:39 pm
The lone Ur-Quan's good ending could be to help the Taalo escape to prettyspace. But, this doesn't mesh with what we know about the taalo, dnyarri & ur-quan.  The Taalo's inate imunity to the Dnyarri couldn't extend to others; that's why they were building their psi-screen, which likely never left their homeworld.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: J on May 07, 2004, 02:23:09 pm
Quote


...causing a paradox that would end all time and space as we know it, because if he went back in time and changed the history, then he would have no reason to blow up the Sa-Matra, which means that he would not go back in time and he wouldn't change the history, so he would blow up the Sa-Matra and go back in time and..... Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!



Thats only if you believe the stream of time is unidimensional.

Ahh yes Culture20 my mistake. But you get the drift of my idea, you could make it work without too many inconveniant plot devices.

Hmm,
What if the ORZ (A Milelu race) pulled the Androsynth through time to help fight the Milelu, but they needed a human to lead them (The Captain)

That would explain why the ORZ get angry and cannot reveal much tangible information, they are a projection from the past..

Perhaps the adjustments the Arilou made to humans was because somehow some of the synth DNA from the synth that got pulled into the past managed to contaminate the human genepool on earth, which the arilou had to eliminate to prevent mass extinction (as the synths cant reproduce)

Iunno, there are many ideas you can fit into the SC2 plotlines that were left open.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: unity100 on May 09, 2004, 06:14:12 am
stage for sequel is already set :

Captain will find Mark V (iv ? i will remember soon enough )


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Dwight_Trammel on May 10, 2004, 11:31:41 pm
Quote
You jerks need to stop acting like SC3 was the Ishtar of videogames.  SC3 was a great game, and the only thing disappointing about it was the ending.


??? SC3 sucks. No1 likes it and there are 147 good reasons for it.


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: raakone on May 14, 2004, 07:05:10 am
Parts of SC3 are ok....but we can ALL agree that the ending was terrible...seems more like something lifted out of a New-Age book than something suitable for the ending of an SC game. But nonetheless....some elements of SC3 could be preserved for...the next SC (but the ending better be something cool along the lines of SC2, OR ELSE!)

Ok, some of my ideas.........
Hyperspace.....must exist. Traveling star to star is so much cooler than warp-bubbling. Of course, there'd be an explanation why you can't warp bubble....but maybe some enemy of yours CAN. And besides True-Space, Hyper-Space and Quasi-Space, maybe there's one or two other dimensions.
Also, maybe some portal opened up in the area that once had the Sa-Matra.

Sides....
Alliance: Isn't this obvious?
The Order of the Black Star: some mysterious group of races, they want power. And they came from another dimension.
Inner Ring of Destiny: Another group, not aligned with the Order in any way.  Possibly a fourth side? Oh yes, there's also the Koh-rah.....some aliens never learn!

Bosses......there would be a few boss ships. Now, like the Sa-Matra, you'd fight the escort ships first. BUT....you wouldn't fight around a planet, oh no...you fight around the boss ship...which you can't damage, but the boss ship may have one or two special abilities or weapons active, making things just a little difficult. You can't actually do damage until you've taken care of all the escort vessels, but get to close to it and it will damage you (of course, it won't do the same to its escort....unfair enough for you). Ideas? Hmm...maybe the Koh-rah tried to build a super-marauder.

Races: Of course, new races are a must. A couple of ideas....
Daktaklakpak: not my idea, of course....but they should return, they're so cool!
Miara: A race of opposum-like creatures. The captains, all female, are normally covered in young clinging to them (it's accepted conventional wisdom that you don't bring your children into battle wtih you...the Miara never heard of this) Their weapon converts the female's singing into a powerful wave-based weapon.
Hautua: Another humanoid race, they resemble polynesians in many ways, perhaps their ship would look like someone took a tiki-bar and slapped some thrusters on it. Their woman are beautiful, their men are handsome, their music is legendary, their story is tragic. They were conned into joining the IROD, supposedly because that was the only way they'd be protected from the Kohr-ah and the OBS.
Drall: Perhaps if one of those Mielleu races is still out there somewhere?

Not sure about the plot....but perhaps it would have something to do with those two sides that just "moved in" recently...the OBS and the IROD.......any ideas?

And one last thing......perhaps there'd be tunnels on some worlds that you could explore with a lander...yes, landers are cool, landing pods suck!

~Ra'akone


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Phate on May 20, 2004, 10:13:53 pm
Just curious as to if anyone has any information concerning the fate of the real SC4 that was in development quite awhile ago.

I'm assuming it was just scrapped, but was curious as to why, and if anyone had any links to articles describing it.

Before the automatic reply, YES there was a SC4 in developement, it was in a older issue of PCGamer, it even had preliminary screenshots. It was to be a completely 3-D polygonal game..


Title: Re: Star Control IV
Post by: Chrispy on May 21, 2004, 01:28:46 am
http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/starcon/