The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

Hey guys, I know you're all looking at this post and thinking: "has Culture20 gone off his rocker?"
I'm happy to say I haven't (although if I had, I'd be happy to say that too).  
I inserted my SC3 CD last night, just for a laugh.  I'd forgotten all of the great things found in SC3 (and only SC3):  The vivid colors, original dialouges, advanced AI (pacifism enhanced with lee-kwon-choo expert mentality), and the plot!  I can't say enough good things about the plot.  The Mycon Deep Child was the best idea, much better than TFB's idea of what the Deep Children were.  The Music was impressive too; not any of that techno-mod stuff with alien sounding instruments.  Nope, most alien ditties were good ol' rock & roll!

A brilliant classic.  Anyway, this got me thinking:  Maybe the UQM team could approach atari about making SC3 open source?  That's be awesome!   8)

Obviously, since I've fallen in love with SC3, I don't see a need for Timewarp anymore.  In fact, I'm going to become openly hostile towards the game since it's trying to rewrite Canon Star Control history.   You probably won't see me much on these boards either; I'm going to make my own SC3 forum somewhere.  I'll come back here and post a link when the forum's set up.   :)













APRIL FOOLS

Good one - For a sec I thought the makers of SC3 were holding a gun to your head.  ;)


One problem - according to the time on the forum it is april 2.

That depends on where you are. Forum local time is CET (where it is still April 1 as I'm writing this). You can change your local time in the 'Profile' menu.

...fortunately he put that text on the bottom...


Otherwise he'd deserved to be dragged out and shot...

ok ok ill tell them...

not so loud they might hear you...

shhh! ill do it...just give me a minute...

i love star control 3 too.

there are you satisfied...

this message broght to you by the voices in my head.

~DEFIANT

What's so bad about SC3 anyway short of the fact that it pissed off most fans. OK I'm messing with you I mean the only positive thing in it and I'm going out on a limb here was the hyper-melee(and the lack of cameos NOT!)

Hyper Melee was lousy, as well. You ever tried going near the planet in a slow ship?

Why was SC3 crap ask people?

Simple.

No Fred Ford.

No Paul Reiche.

No blessing by either (to my knowledge).

Result? SC3 was cursed from the beggining and remains cursed to this day.

Sorry, had the need to rant, venting mode off now.

hahaa, I also like SC3!

While I admit the Creators did a mighty fine job, I find this idolisation of them a tad spooky. Their still just people. Mighty fine people, but still.

Very true luki, I think that many people go a tad overboard....

Anyway though, it certainly would not have hurt to get permission from them or ideas - even if they did not use them.....

Imagine if Stephen King didn't write all the "Dark Tower" books to thier conclusion? Who could possibly imagine someone else finishing off a series like that? Same deal with Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings". It really wouldn't be the same because like the 2 listed above their respective visions of plot, characters, all that stuff was essentially thier own. It's unfair to believe that anyone could really pick up the reigns where a masterpiece-in-progress brought to a sudden halt had left off.

I feel pretty much the same way with SC. I would never begin making a follow-up game without heavily consulting with Fred Ford and Paul Reiche first. They may yet have some hidden secrets regarding the continuing plot from SC2 that they've never shared with anyone, maybe including each other. However if collaboration cannot be gotten or is only minimal at best there have been instances where other notable folks have taken up the reigns and carried on.

Off the top of my head the movie Alien is outstanding in it's own right, but the plot would have stayed forever there if not for James Cameron picking up where that left off and forging ahead with Aliens, in almost every way a better movie, at the point where Ridley Scott left off.

Now I'm not saying "Hey, grab Sid Meier or Brian Reynolds to finish the job", I'm just saying you're gonna need someone with some serious drive and a really definitive vision of what the game will be. Wonder if James Cameron would be willing to do an SC3 game  ;D

I agree with you Stealth, a similar situation arose when Issac Asimov died (may he rest in peace). His legendary Foundation series looked to be an unfinished masterpiece, and the links with his robot series were tantalising and yet also unrealised because of his death.

Eventually a few fans picked up from where he left off, and crafted as faithfully as they could sequels. Though still unfinished, I could barely distinguish a Foundation book written by Assimov when compared to one of the more modern sequels written by fans.

Star Control 3 was bad because the original concept had been raped in a way that made me want to scratch my eyes out. I've read the Warlok files and found that the entire storyline for SC3 had been ripped from the creative consultant (whom was only ever consulted once, ever, in the entire project) and twisted into the junk it became.

There were some damn good ideas in SC3, but their implementation could have been handled far far better. When I play the game it's like the producers were saying "Sucked your money in! HAHA!" rather then "See how great this is? Want a sequel? Sure you do!".

The inherent flaws in SC3 could have been solved by further development and polishing, a year at least would have been required to get it up to scratch and I'm definitely sure any SC fan would have waited for a long time a long as they were getting a decent sequel. As it is, SC3 was "Stillborn" as far as games go. It could have been soooo much better if it had been kept in the womb of development until proper maturation.

SILENCE!

Star Control 3 is a rip-roarin' good game of epic proportions. Since I'm a superior programmer to the rest of you put together, I'll remake SC3 myself. See you all in two months.

Bye bye, have fun!

And some people seem to have misunderstood what I was saying. No, I wouldn't want to see any other person finish "The Dark Tower", and I'd prefer if FF and PRIII were involved in the making of a real SC3. I believe that other people could (maybe) do it almost as well, bt they'd be the safe cards. Thsi doesn't mean it cannot be made without them though. And to imply that it cannot be good without their "blessing", is to imply that anyone trying to make any sort of spinoff/sequel is at fault. In my mind, it'd just be easier to let people mae their sequels, and then criticeise them if/because they are BAD (as SC3 was) rather than because of anything else. The Asimov series is a very good example of this, thanks for the comparison Cronos.

You have to wonder what some people on this forum regarding this topic (without knowing what other people think) would say if PRIII and FF said that they made it.

The joke's on you. They did make it.

But oh man, what will Third R Paul and Fred "Frat" Ford do when they find out I'm already 80% done rebuilding their best game? I told the marketing guy I hired (INCIDENTALLY, HIS NAME'S PHIL!) I'll be ready to ship by July. Star Control 3 is going to make me so much money - good thing I thought of it.

I'm not drunk.

And I find it strangely amusing to see that Shiver has finally flipped. Welcome to the Far Side.

Yo. I'm working on box cover art for the game. I made a draft and it would be nice to post it, but I don't have anywhere to upload it too. It is very quality work.

Depending on how big it is, I'll be happe to upload it ;)

Funny, the credits at the end of the game don't have their name on my game.

Are you sure that they did not just provide their ideas and blessing?

There is a big difference....

The credits are made up to shake off communists. Fred "Frank" Ford and Third Paul to the Sun made the entire thing and did the voices too.

I think SC3 was made on purpose as it was. I mean, think of it! It sucks, so people think "no this is impossible! We have to do better!! We have to undo the damage and make a sequel ourselves!!". And since it sucks so much, it's impossible to do worse, so almost anyone thinks "Yeah we're going to do better than that!!". That's why there are so many people on these forums nowadays. Not because SC2 was so great, but because SC3 was so bad.

(No offence to the makers of SC3 intended : they put a lot of work into it and I respect that - I actually liked the Harika and Yorn.)

heheh well, SC3...lemme see if I can remember anything good about it, and with an open mind. I liked the Exquivan ship design although I found the race itself to be irritating. Same deal with the Xchaggers. Harika/Yorn were decent. But when I remember the things that I didn't like they still stick out even though I haven't played the game in a number of years...

1. Why did the music go funky after a while? One second it's playing fine and the next it's 2 notes off, or in slow mo or something.

2. The starmap was terrible. Maps like that worked for SC1 because it was pure strategy and they were much smaller, but for purposes of actual navigating it was abysmal. They should have gone with a 2D map.

3. Related to #2, finding specific planets on that map was sometimes an exercise in patience. You could search 10 minutes for a quest planet and sometimes have no idea which way the thing was.

4. While fuel consumption wasn't particularly good I once got stranded in some God-awful backwater planet, and had to colonize some pitiful world just to make fuel so I could escape it. Made me long for the days of an Umgah Caller so a Melnorme could come to my rescue

5. Some of the ship ideas/weapons/specials felt a little bit too recycled. Herald is the very first one that comes to mind, being essentially an Ilwrath with a different weapon.

6. Where the heck were the Zoq-Fot-Pik???????

7. While it was interesting talking to a Precursor I think they should have waited for a few more games, it'd make it feel like "WOW! I'm talking to  Precursor!" instead of a cow. Make it sort of a long-sought after kinda thing :)

8. The most glaring deficiency, where the HE-- did the new Precursor ship come from? It looked nothing like the Mark II at the end of SC2...continuity people!

I thought the animitronic alien "actors" was a unique twist on it, but they made the Pkunk look like a Sesame Street velociraptor, and there is no way on earth I would ever consider the Syreen model attractive, looked more like a blue-skinned Tammy Faye Bakker, with slightly bigger cheekbones.

I have something to admit though, I thought the Ur-Quan sounded cool, whatever it was they did with thier voice.

It has come to my attention that Lukipela's server thing is too scared to host my awesome corver art. Would someone else be able to help me out? It's a large pic, basically.

Email me the picture. I have a host that should be able to handle almost anything...

Email is cronoswraith at hotmail

The new precursor service vehicle was built at the Vela 2 precursor factory, built with minerals from the asteroid belt after the Slave revolt. They tell you so in the introduction video.
Actually, quite poor,  but better than nothing.

The warp bubble drive also comes from the computer of the precursor installation.
But how did they control the installation, if the original computer was used to control the navigational computer of the first precursor vehicle (SCII), because no human could pull any of these levers?

And me, personally i disliked the story, but what they made out of this poor idea was great.
1. Spathi: a few days late colonizing because they saw a pack of bunnies. And they left the league just because they were threatened. Well made, fits good in the Spathi story.
2. the heralds: survival just to survive. No extras, nothing in return. high price, only for the desperate. But until the next feeding, you just get bored living, so you might want to change things.
3. Exquivan: regarding the background of the story, that all sentience will be eaten, becoming so thoughtless minded could become a solution for some of the less brilliant people.
I also liked their ships.
4. The XChagger: lousy, but funny ship (only because the turning rate was lousy), great idea, great micro-technologistst.
But shouldn't the ship have some kind of regenration, like the Harika/Yorn one? Bacteria do multiply quite fast, should be a lot faster than any mammal-kind being, like the Yorn....
5. the K'tang are just oh so funny [stomping my feet]
6. it fits the Vux to betray the league. Especially after they got what they wanted: a ride to a new colonyplace to increase their sphere of influence.
7. i was just getting high on the hilarious idea of where the precursors went. It really made me laugh. Although the C.U.D. seems a little bit too omnipotent to me (scanning the HomeQuadrant and the Orz from the center of the galaxy??!?? - come on!)
8. i loved the Ploxis story and their rescue.
9. the mycon deep child story
10. i liked the idea of the red spiral rail and the Ultron.
11. The Lk: great ship, great people.
12. The Daktaklakpak: unintellegible computers, then demanding computers, at the end, dumb servitors.
13. "The Great Protectorate of Owa, Keeper of the Creche of Life, Dwellers in the Oceanic Depths, Reef Keepers and Sailors on the Currents of Space, Defenders of the Rainbow Worlds, Seekers of Heroism and Glory for the Owa Protectorate", ain't that a cool name? And a well-designed race as well.


bad things:
1. I missed the cuddly Shofixti!!!! If only because they could be great colony builders (with their rate of reproduction, think of the population increase if you are stranded and need to colonize to receive fuel - they could pull the trick in an acceptable amount of time).
2. the heralds: very poorly drawn bunch of players. Ship a mix of Ilwrath and Druuge
3. the Exquivan planet has the sentient precursor computer: Why haven't the Eternal1's eaten this computer as well? They do eat the sentience of all and everything (why else would the precursor keep the things just sub-sentience?).
4. the XChagger: how could they adjust your scanners when you first saw the Ortog aboard one of their ships? I thought, the camera would be aboard their ship, transmitting the view to your ship to be diplayed on screen? Why would they adjust your scanners? Are you scanning through their hull and through the Ortog, just to view them??!??
5. my Supox were dead - just because.
6. the Arilou are really crappy now.
7. too many mysteries solved. especially the Ortog-mystery or the Ultron mystery.
Now only the purpose of Wimblis Trident remains.
8. the ploxis: going over and over the same texts again, just because you revived another ploxis ship is just damn boring. Made me revive only two ships, instead of all.
9. the mycon being on the trip anyway. Shouldn't they just be happy to void all the non with the collapse of the solar systems one by one? And besides, they only join the un-Voidable Non. And the league was strong, yes. But nothing near un-Voidable compared to the Ur-Quan.
10. no resource gathering through fighting.

Music, i don't remember too well, just that the quality was great. Nothing said about the style of the music.

Enjoy,
Krulle

Wait, if I remember correctly, the Spathi blew several cows that they thought were threatening four feet into the ground? So what happens when you start SC3 is the Spathi are way behind in production...

sc3 music quality was terrible. The ariloo melody was catchy, and I liked the bassline in the earthling theme, but they shouldnt have made midi files. Everything sounded the same, and the percussion sucked.

The quality of the recording was good.
Midis suck, i remember that.
but i do not remember the music anymore.
BTW, i had a really great Soundcard with a good midi table back then. Maybe that's why i couldn't complain about the quality.

Krulle

I think they could have made it at least workable if they had put in a 2d map, and a starbase at least to upgrade your Mark 1.5 up at. Coincidentally, if they tugged an astroid in to make the second service vessel why stop there? You could tug all sorts of asteroids in and make a fleet of Precursor service vessels. But I digress....

With a map change alone it might have made it an actual better game. The midi tracks would work at first and then after a while would sorta play "off key"...I don't know how else to put it. And it was the same track playing endlessly, I kinda wish they would have come up with something with a bit more beat to it...you know, like SC2 :D

you guys are still at it with the star control 3... when will the madness stop?

by the way... howdy all. took some time away to persue "dracula x: rondo of blood". its a rather hard castlevania game. but im up for the challange. well talk at you all later.

~DEFIANT

Nobody said anything about the Clairconctler yet.. (or how the hell you're supposed to spell that ;))
I thought they where fun guys to talk to, they're all words really  ::). First they let you talk on and on and reply only with deadly silence and after that they simply reply with the shortest possible one-liners.
And I like their ships too, they're fairly powerfull with large crew and they have a killer broadside like the wooden battleships of old. Also the warp beacon is a handy way of knowing where you're teleporting.
However the part I disliked the most about SC3 is the storyline and I don't accept it as a rightfull sequel to SC2  

Clairconctlar. "Clair", in French, means clear. "con", also in French, means stupid. "Ctlar"...well, your guess is as good as mine. Clear, Stupid...Ctlar.

Well, they're not necessarily stupid.. This sounds like what they should've named the Doog. :P

ctlar is an old arcaic french word, which basically means "floation device". So they're daft, see-through flotation devices. Which makes sense, as a see-through floation device is daft, you can't tell where it is, since you see the water through it!

Yet another question solved by the linguistic maestro!

Didn't this thread die already...Twice? I vote we kill it once and for all, or at least if someone can say something positive about SC3, Although I doubt it? C20 see what your AFJ turned into scary isn't it? Summary: SC3 sucked, points in dispute music may have been acceptable.
Please in the name of sanity and desency don't revive it.  Yes, I do occainally say something positive, today is NOT your day tomarrow doesn't look much better either.

TERMINATOR - The Terrified  One

Any SC3 some scary schit?

I don't think we have enough active threads to let one die. Besides, I've always taken a dead thread to mean one that has fallen below the first page, and remained there for a few days. So at UQM, threads die slooow.

There were good points to SC3, and stroy ideas that weren't necessary horrible. They were just presented in a bad way, with a subuseful engine, taking out the potential enjoyment.

Didn't this thread die when I decided to leave?

But oh well, I have to respond for it... I will do it in simple math.

AfterMath > timewarp > sc3.

I think that AfterMath ( so far so good) is the right game for a sequel in strategy style. No problems so far. Stop talking about this horrible game called "sc3" ::)

Another point: We should do it like in Harry Potter, it isn't allowed to say "sc3" and instead we would say "you know what".

As far as aftermath > TW I heartily agree. It's a fine example of how one dedicated person can do things a indecisive group seems unable to. If aftermath grows, it could even be the medium for our awaited SC sequel, which I think would be kind of ironic.

Not that I'm belittling TW in any way, but considering the amount of time TW has eben around compared to Aftermath, GOB was great fun, but it never really went on from there. If aftermath can, then yowza, whatever I can do to help, I also pledge to do.

However, SC3 was still a complete game with full story, so I don't really thin kwe can compare the two like that. Yes, the battle part of Aftermath is already better than SC3 (IMO), as is the starmap, but there is no story, and nothing that will keep you busy for a long time. When that arrives, I'll give it due credit.

We could also point out, like in "Harry Potter" that only foolish and superstitious people talk about you-know who and thus give him more power, whereas brave and courageous folks can call him by his name.

The inability of Aftermath to run on non-windows is exceedingly irksome, given the good reactions it is inspiring.

Yeppers, haven't played it yet for that reason (and not too keen on running binaries DL'd from the internet; I'll have to install a windows sandbox to try it out).

Also worth noting: since it uses 3D stuff, it won't work on a lot of non-3D accelerated gfx cards.  OpenGL can be emulated with a software layer; not sure about DirectX...

I've found this site:
http://www.old-pc-games.com/adventure/games-sp-sw/star-control-3.html

Rip off site, selling files they have no rights to.

SC 3 was great!  It was the first game in the series I played, and therefore became interested in the first two.  That is the only reason the game is good.  It introduced me to the first and second games, and that is the only reason for it's continued existence on my shelf.

It is infuriating that I sent my super high quality SC3 artwork to several different people promising to host it, and all of them have backed down like little girls.

And... this fits into this topic.... how?  ::)

Fixed. Re-read it.

3) It was artifical intelligence, not true sentience.  
4) The Xchaggers were parasites.  Fleas.  They weren't bacteria.
5) I think the Orz did it
6) Agreed
7) Wimbli's Trident was a device from the TFB game 'The Horde'.  It was a great game.  The device was a weapon of sorts, cauing meteors to crash into the surface of the map you're on, causing large amounts of destruction.

3. well, it was described as sentient.
4. you are completely missing the point. Either the XChagger were transmitting, in which case they were busy taking pictures of cows at first (stupid), or you were scanning them, in which case they wouldn't be able to 'adjust' your scan. Basically, makes no sense.
5. That doesn't make it any less lame.
7. Wrong order. The Horde came out after SC2.

The Hyperwave devices in SC3 might be like teleconferencing equipment today; both people have control of cameras at both ends.  But, the point is moot; SC3 stinks all around.

Right. If they have control, why did their camera start out looking at the cow?

Dunno, maybe the last people to control the camera were the Daks, and they thought the Ortog was more sentient... or, maybe the camera was imediately controled by your computer to focus on the largest natural creature in an unnatural environment?

That would pose a problem when viewing unnatural creatures in a natural environment...  ::)

I'm going to keep this quote around for use out of context :)

note: The Precursor computer on Exquivo was described 'semi-sentient' so...

There's a lot of peole around that could be described semi-esntient as well. I doubt they'd survive though...

Actually, I think the semi-sentient people reproduce at an alarming rate compared to the sentient  ::)

Which ties neatly in with the flamethrower topic.

Ah yes, it does indeed :)
I love it when a plan comes together!
/me lights cigar
;D

And i pity da foo who don't get that reference.

Nice to know the A-Team is welcome in other countries.

Welcome?
Worshiped is a better word.
But alas, it's been years since any station decided to put on atleast a few episodes...  :'(

Yea, when I was a little kid, it was really awesome... now I find it really funny  ;D
But its been a while since it was on the TV here also.

The Finnish Channel SubTV ran something like a show a day a year back or so. same with McGuyver. And that Vietnam Doctor series which name I cannot rememember. All in all some enjoyable watching.

You mean MASH? well if you do, its korea, not vietnam. :)
Oh and dont forget knight rider and airwolf  8)

Indeed, MASH. My mistake. Adn knightrider rules all.

Speaking of which, did anyone hear that David Hasselhoff is gonna do a rap record? His artist name will be Hassel da Hoff. I kid you not.

LOL!!!  :D

Knight Rider wasn't that good.
Mac Gyver, the A-Team, and MASH, they were my all time favourites, oh and "Allo! Allo!" tough I dont know if I should put it with all the others.

Hmmm no, its an absurd brittish comedy, not an american '80s action series :)

And the connention to sc3 is...?

Well, McGuyver stars in Stargate SG1, and the Goa'Uld use the stargates to control their empire... wich spans many stars... so they kind of control stars... And they have these piramid shaped spaceships, wich are symbols of their power. And as we all know, the sides of piramides are triangular, wich means, they have three angles. So that means they can maintain star-control with their 3 angled sided ships.
And there you have it: Star Control 3!

::)

It was when I was seven, though I must admit it doesn't hold up as well as other classics...

(http://vandedonk.nl/smileys/worshippy.gif)

The A-Team! That brings back some kickass memories. I'm gonna switch up my quote as a sign of respect, hold on...

 

That was a joke made by Ice-T in reference to a question if he could make anyone a rapper.  He said yes, they asked even David Hasselhoff, to which he replied "yeah I could make him a rapper and his name would be Hassel da Hoff.

However this does not mean there is going to be a Hassel da Hoff album being dropped, ever!

OOOOK, the second thread I revive today, but there's something important I've got to say about SC3 species names.
---Clair-conc-tlar clearly means "clear conc rocks" ("clear" meaning "polished" here) - the "tlar" is a plural suffix, strangely resembling the Turkish plural suffix "-lar", used for words whose last vowel is either a, o, u or |, as the case is here.
---Doog is clearly "dog" with the "o" doubled to suggest how slow they speak.
---"Harika" is another Turkish word used as a girl name, see here (http://www.babynamesworld.com/meaning_of_Harika.html), meaning "beautiful" - a clear play on how ugly the Harika really are.
---"Yorn" probably originates from "yarn", seeing that the Yorn look quite textile, like some puppets or so.
---"Daktaklakpak" suggest the robotic noises that they make.
---"Vyro-Ingo" - "Vyro" probably originates from some Latin or so word for "truth", from which the word "veridic" also originates; "Ingo" is the short form of "engineered"; so "Vyro-Ingo" means "truly engineered" - indeed, they're quite an artificial race, being created by the Precursors.
---"Ploxis" originates from "plot".
---"Xchagger" is suggestive of the fact that one Xchagger is not sentient, but together the Xchagger greatly sentient! Vootie! - the "xch" can't be pronounced without "agger".
---"K'Tang" is probably a reference to the Katang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katang) people.

It is truly awe-inspiring how much thought the creators of SC3 put into the names of their species!