The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Rashid on April 08, 2004, 06:37:05 pm



Title: The worst ship?
Post by: Rashid on April 08, 2004, 06:37:05 pm
Wich ship is the worst, what are you think? As for me, a think shofixti is pretty useless... I've never manged to kill someone with it, and it's suicide wep does very little damage, if now beeing extremly close to the ship. Also I don't like Ilwrath - against most ships (CPU) it sucks.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: 0xDEC0DE on April 08, 2004, 07:39:56 pm
The Shofixti ship owns the VUX.  The fight isn't even remotely fair.  It's also useful for "softening up" capital ships (e.g., the glory device takes care of Chmmr ZapSats quite well) but the handling does take some getting used to (much like the Pkunk ship).

My vote on this would have to go to the Umgah Drone.  Slow, with a bad turning rate, which is exacerbated by the absolutely pathetic range of its primary weapon.  The fact that its primary weapon isn't strong enough to shield against the stronger attacks in the game (Ur-Quan, Kohr-Ah, Druuge, Melnorme and Chenjesu shots sail right through it) makes for some very short battles indeed.

And I won't even begin to discuss the demerits of a special attack that propels you very quickly in a direction opposite of the one that your primary weapon faces.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 08, 2004, 07:45:26 pm
Agreed whoile heartedly.  The umagh drone is the worst ship in the game.  

As for the shofixti, I can beat a Ur-quan with it, I once beat a kor-ah, but only once. (All on Level Awsome) I can take out all the zipzats with the glory device, however I think that it is nearly impossible to beat a chmmr with it.  


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Death 999 on April 08, 2004, 08:10:05 pm
In SC1, the Drone was significantly more powerful -- the cone was wider, which allowed the pilot to graze ships on the sideswipe. This was an important tactic, which SC2's reduced cone renders impossible.

I guess this was one of the compromises they made to make the game easier (the other being that the Intruder doesn't warp in close).

I wonder how hard it would be to reinstate the larger cone...


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 08, 2004, 09:01:33 pm
.....Then you can download the patch for internet play, as for regular skirmish with a CPU I don't mind the umagh like that because some of the tactics of the CPU involve charging the umagh..


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Spurk on April 09, 2004, 12:53:24 am
Actually, the thing that ticks me off about the Umgah is that the computer on awesome is actually somewhat effective with it. It does a good job of backing up at just the right time in the right direction to appear suddenly right in front of me with its cone going. I've tried doing the same, but I guess I just don't have the coordination for that sort of maneuver.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Death 999 on April 09, 2004, 01:25:48 am
Quote
.....Then you can download the patch for internet play


Making the antimatter cone bigger is NOT on the same order of difficulty as rewriting the combat engine.

Quote
as for regular skirmish with a CPU I don't mind the umagh like that because some of the tactics of the CPU involve charging the umagh..


So, because the AI is stupid enough the weak ship can be moderately effective despite its intrinsic wussitude, it shouldn't be cinched up to the level which would indicate it is not positively retrogressing? That would be like if in SC3 there were Ilwrath and the invisibility made them black but weapons would track to them properly.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Alfred Simmerson on April 09, 2004, 03:30:09 am
In raw terms, yes, the Umgah is the worst (for human players), but in terms of badness relative to cost, I'd say Mycon is clearly the winner (er, loser).  23 points for that piece of crap!?  It accelerates slowly, its regeneration is too slow and energy-gobbling to be good for anything, and its big homing shot is too slow and more often than not ends up hitting the Mycon itself (especially if it's up against a fast ship that can run rings around the Mycon).

Melee skills are irrelevant to whether the Mycon wins or not, because all the player basically can do is decide whether to shoot or regenerate at any given point.  Regardless of the skill level of the Mycon pilot, it can easily be beaten by any ship that's faster than its homing ball.  The Mycon is only useful against some slow ships like the Earthling, but plenty of ships are effective against the Earthling anyway.  I can buy a Spathi for less than a Mycon and it sure as hell beats everything the Mycon can.

Ugh.  For me it's Mycon all the way.  I hate that thing (except when my enemy is piloting it, that is :-).

By the way, the Shofixti rocks (again for its cost).  It's perhaps the *best* ship.  6 Shofixti (30 points) will beat an Ur-quan (also 30 points) any day.  It's not useful as a primary attack ship but it's extremely useful to take out ships that are much more valuable.  Example scenarios:
Shofixti vs. Arilou or Pkunk: enemy tries to come close to use its short-range weapon, Shofixti detonates, Arilou/Pkunk dies.  

Shofixti vs. Chmmr: Shofixti explodes and destroys Chmmr satellites, now suddenly it's easy to beat the Chmmr with your Spathi or Thraddash.

Shofixti vs. damaged Ur-quan: Shofixti weaves between the plasma bolts, explodes right beside the Ur-quan, Ur-quan dies.

Shofixti vs. Mycon: Shofixti doesn't even need to explode, Mycon dies :).


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Vassago_Umara on April 09, 2004, 04:44:41 am
The Drone is a peice of junk, but I also think the Mycon is pretty bad too.  Its way too slow.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Chrispy on April 09, 2004, 06:10:02 am
The podship is good, the drone is bad. Most slow ships are long ranged other than the drone and the avenger. The avenger can cloak to get up close, but the drone has nothing. It has defence, but no offence.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Defender on April 09, 2004, 10:46:12 am
can you say gravity whip... how deadly the mycon do become... time your release... and unleash the dogs of war!

~DEFIANT


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Shiver on April 09, 2004, 10:55:13 am
Quote
can you say gravity whip... how deadly the mycon do become... time your release... and unleash the dogs of war!

~DEFIANT


No no no, that's incorrect. The quote you're refering to goes like this: "Cry havok and let slip the dogs of war". I don't know where it's from; it's just one of those dumb things that sticks to you once you've heard it.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: bigfoot256 on April 09, 2004, 01:03:12 pm
I must be the only person in the boards who actually LIKES the drone.

The podship isn't too bad either, IMO, with a bit of gravity whip. (or Miracle Whip. Mmmh, mushroom sammich...  :P )


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Vassago_Umara on April 09, 2004, 03:20:13 pm
"Cry havok and let slip the dogs of war" is Shakespeare.  I don't know what play though.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: umgahbob on April 09, 2004, 04:16:35 pm
It's either hamlet or caesar.

Anyhoo, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the zoqfot for worst ship. I can do significantly more damage with a drone than I can with a stinger.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: NECRO-99 on April 09, 2004, 06:30:36 pm
I've got a soft spot in my heart for the drone too, only because it takes significantly more tactic to fly the thing. If anyone needs a bit o' help flying it, look at  this. (http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1062686746;start=60) Scroll down a bit to see the Drone tactics.

"Cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war!" is the quote you're looking for, I think.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 09, 2004, 07:18:19 pm
I like the the ZFP ship! - It is one of the best "small" ships. It has the tongue weapon that is the most effective that I almost use exlusivly. I think the ZFP is good right were it stays.


Title: Re: The worst ship? OT!
Post by: Starchild on April 09, 2004, 08:14:58 pm
Sorry, OT.

from http://loki814.tripod.com/quotes.html ;

"Cry Havok! And let slip the dogs of war!"
   -Shakespeare. "Julius Caesar."



Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: bripo on April 09, 2004, 08:33:40 pm
I agree with Umgahbob. The Zoqfot ship is a pile o' poo.

The Umgah ship is slightly less crappy because I find it's easier to hit something with the Umgah "cone" than with the stupid tongue thing (obviously I don't have FalconMWC's dexterity).



Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Chrispy on April 09, 2004, 09:09:35 pm
The both require practice. They are both short ranged, but the Stinger is fast so thats less of a hastle. The Stinger's primary weapon is sweet. It sprays everywhere. The tongue should be used in moderation.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 09, 2004, 10:25:05 pm
Quote
I agree with Umgahbob. The Zoqfot ship is a pile o' poo.

The Umgah ship is slightly less crappy because I find it's easier to hit something with the Umgah "cone" than with the stupid tongue thing (obviously I don't have FalconMWC's dexterity).


>:( When is internet Melee!!!!  >:(


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: bripo on April 09, 2004, 10:36:21 pm
Actually, come to think of it, the Druuge ship is pretty crap - having to burn your crew as fuel.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Megagun on April 09, 2004, 10:41:27 pm
yeah, Druuge suck.. :(
Usually, i just burn 1 crew, point towards my enemy, and hold the fire button, and hope  i got some hits. When i lost nrg, i repeat. This sends me off the galaxy, and usually kills me, because i hit a planet.. Bummer... ;)

I prefer ZFP over Umgah, though. ZFP is fast and has the spray weapon. I think a ZFP can even kill some chmmr zapsats! Lemme check that!


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 09, 2004, 11:27:53 pm
Yup - it sure can, I have done it with the tonque weapon.

O - And one thing that Druuge are good at is killng Chmmrs.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Chrispy on April 09, 2004, 11:42:01 pm
Excuse me, Maulers are awsome. They are very hard to kill without sacrificing a few ships. Sure they deal themselves damage, but for each 1 crew that they sacrifice they can kill a whole ship. (on average yada yada yada)


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Vassago_Umara on April 10, 2004, 03:24:39 am
I wish there was some way to have the flagship in melee.  Two people with customized flagships battling it out.  It would be great.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Defender on April 10, 2004, 04:02:17 am
Quote


No no no, that's incorrect. The quote you're refering to goes like this: "Cry havok and let slip the dogs of war". I don't know where it's from; it's just one of those dumb things that sticks to you once you've heard it.


its Shakespeare. you are quite correct in the quote. i just used my interpretation of it. thanks for pointing that out though. good recall Shiver!

~DEFIANT


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Krogoth on April 11, 2004, 10:11:15 am
The Druuge Mauler can kill more then just Avatars. It's just the Mauler demands sharpshooting skills since, you can't afford to take misses. The worse ship IMHO has to be the Iiwrath Avenger. It's was designed just for one purpose, to counter Earthing Cruisers in SC1. Outside of that it's craptastic top speed and melee range weapon makes the Avenger pretty darn useless. Despite, it's cloaking ablilty which is effectively nuffiled by the camera focusing in melee. The Umgah drone was more of fun ship to play with then a serious combat vessiel. Both the Shoifxi Scout and ZPF Stinger required some mad skills and balls to play effectively with.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 11, 2004, 11:26:19 pm
Actually, the illwrath can take out quite a few orz because, while cloaking still tells of enemy your postion, it stops all guided weapons.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Chrispy on April 12, 2004, 12:20:15 am
Id have to say the worst ship is either the avenger or the scout. They are both really cool ideas so ill let them slide ;D
The shofixti self distructs, I mean come on, thats awsome.
The ilwrath is fear. It invisible and then suddenly your dead. haha, it doesnt quite work that well but its a neat idea.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Krogoth on April 12, 2004, 08:05:34 pm
Avengers are Nemesis food althought, the marines don't work. The Nemesis can easly overrun the Avenger even with the gravity sling-shot trick. Not to mention that the Nemesis can change rolate it's turret at will. Which makes just easier for the Nemesis to hit the Avenger when it's cloaked due to the camera focusing in melee. In TW however, Avengers are pretty decent against human players since, there's no camera focusing to ruin your cloaking ablilty's full potental.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 12, 2004, 10:21:21 pm
Think about it, if there was ever a online patch that was only going to be used online, we should keep the illwrath visible to the person using it. More of a advantage that way, maybe make it sort of transparent or soemthing to indacate that it is invisible.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: NECRO-99 on April 12, 2004, 10:42:34 pm
The thing of it is, there is no "worst" ship in the game. Each has it's own niche.

The clunky Mauler can devastate the mighty Avatar can tear through the shield-happy Terminator can destroy the fire-n-forget Earthling can rip up the Palpatine-on-speed Probe can annihilate the terrifying Dreadnought can brutalize the Mauler.

Each has it's own place. It's the ship we suck the most with that we're going to say is the 'worst' ship.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Chrispy on April 12, 2004, 11:15:42 pm
Thats what makes this such an interesting debate.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Captain Smith on April 12, 2004, 11:15:52 pm
All I can say basically is that the worst ship always seems to be the one that people suck at the most and the best ship always seems to be the one that people 0wn with.  It always never seems to be based on merit.  They're all good in their own ways - some just take more skill to do something with than others.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Chrispy on April 12, 2004, 11:18:52 pm
Well this has inspired me to touch up my drone skills. I still suck at the avenger though.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 12, 2004, 11:31:07 pm
So that mean we shoudl start a poll!


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Chrispy on April 13, 2004, 12:21:04 am
Chad doesnt seem to like updating his poll.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Thingol on April 13, 2004, 06:36:00 am
for the worset ship i have to say its the mycon as well... personaly i love the pukunk ships cause they come back to life and the arilou since there fast easy to move around with and well they can telelport lol


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: NECRO-99 on April 14, 2004, 02:12:58 am
I've been working on Ilwrath, was actually thinking about reviving the strat page to write one up, but I haven't the time right now. Maybe later...


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Captain Smith on April 14, 2004, 02:24:24 am
I have one written up - it's always great to have some other ideas, though.  Basically the only thing I can think of I'd add to
what I wrote is to never underestimate the planet when it comes to the fast ships, because the Ilwrath 0wns when it comes to the gravity whip.  Master being around the planet cloaked without killing yourself and you will be a master with the Ilwrath ship.

Quote
I've been working on Ilwrath, was actually thinking about reviving the strat page to write one up, but I haven't the time right now. Maybe later...



Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Captain Smith on April 14, 2004, 02:36:32 am
To be honest, probably the only ships I have a problem with using and winning consistently with are Syreen and Umgah right now.  With all the others I can usually take down at least one ship (name it, ANY ship) or cause some major destruction before I do.

My favorite ship turns into my favorite to play usually and that changes with the seasons.  I'd have to say the list right now in not necessarily any order is:

1) Orz.
2) Melnorme.
3) Zot-Foq-Pik.
4) Yehat.
5) Mmrnmhrm.
6) Ur-Quan.
7) Ilwrath.
8) Androsynth.

You'll usually see me try to gravitate to any one of those ships, although I am trying to get much better at the Syreen and Umgah.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Valtteri on April 14, 2004, 01:43:26 pm
Captain Smith, Syreen and Umgah are also ships that I don't like to play with at all so they also bring some problems.

You said before that every ships are good in their own ways, but I think that even a skilled player who plays with Umgah Drone WILL have problems playing against a human, even if he's opponent plays with any ship.

But I can't be absolutely sure, because I haven't even tried to practice playing with Drone.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Captain Smith on April 14, 2004, 02:41:48 pm
Just because I said I haven't mastered everything doesn't mean I don't have the general grasp of things.  Watch the computer play with the Umgah on awesome sometime.  The basic idea is to use the special and back yourself in front of where you think the ship will be.  Admittedly it's easier starting out with slower ships (I beat a Chenjesu the other day with an Umgah, as an example).  Admittedly though, with the Umgah, it ranks pretty low for a reason.  Very short ranged weapon, not very durable, the challenge is even getting near a ship to do anything.

With the Syreen, the basic skill problem I have with it is hitting anything with the primary weapon.   In some cases I've sucked off all a ships crew only to be destroyed because I couldn't get the final shot in.  The other challenge with it is getting near ships to use the secondary weapon (btw, this is the primary tactic to defeat a Syreen - never give it the chance to get in range).  The key with the Syreen (and again the primary works against you here) is to be very fast, dodgy, and VERY ACCURATE with it - again watch the computer on awesome play it.  I'm surprised just how quick the Syreen can take out a Zot-Foq-Pik, Shofixti, or Pkunk pilot sometimes if they're skilled enough (the awesome AI can definitely do it).

Basically, the ships with the lower points take a whole lot more skill to pilot.  But with any ship there's always a good pattern to use it and a good pattern to defeat it (quick example, get in front of the Mmrnmhrm when it changes to y-form and you'll always defeat it, or with the Melnorme, charge directly at him).   Chances are if you know how to really defeat a ship, you can pilot it quite well to defeat a lot of ships as well.

With those two ships, I'm just basically saying I don't have the skillz yet to do major damage with them.

Quote
Captain Smith, Syreen and Umgah are also ships that I don't like to play with at all so they also bring some problems.

You said before that every ships are good in their own ways, but I think that even a skilled player who plays with Umgah Drone WILL have problems playing against a human, even if he's opponent plays with any ship.



Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Valtteri on April 14, 2004, 04:26:21 pm
Quote
Just because I said I haven't mastered everything doesn't mean I don't have the general grasp of things.


I know that. I just meant that even a skilled player with Umgah doesn't make Drone a very good ship. I was just wondering how Drone is a good ship? I'll have to check that computer's tactic again, but I've never seen that Umgah could do bad damage against human player, even with that tactic.

But, I was little meticulous, because the Umgah is only ship that doesn't fit in your sentece:

Quote
They are all good in their own ways - some just take more skill to do something with than others.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Megagun on April 14, 2004, 08:26:54 pm
Indeed, there isn't such thing as "the worst ship"... Every ship can beat a other one, otherwise there would be a master-of-them-all ship.

Also, it's all about tactics. If you use a chmmr and deplete your energy by tractoring alot, you're dead. If you know how to pilot a ship well, you should be pretty awesome with it..

Also, note that the computer is supreme with some ships? Such as the mauler, the drone, the fury, and the Blade.

Damn, i really want to play some of you guys here in a battle. Playing against the computer sucks a bit, just because it uses the same tactics over and over again (go to enemy, shoot, it turns towards you? run or shoot). Human players are able to see your tactics, and alter theirs to set the game on their hand.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Dwight_Trammel on April 18, 2004, 08:58:07 pm
Quote
It's either hamlet or caesar.

Anyhoo, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the zoqfot for worst ship. I can do significantly more damage with a drone than I can with a stinger.


??? Zoqfot is actually one of the best ships compared to it's price. With zoqfot its possible to destroy ur-quan and slower ships like vux and ilwrath are also easy targets for stinger.

Umgah Drone is the worst ship there is. Its too slow, it's primary weapon is almost useless and it's speciality sucks too. Try to beat ur-quan with drone, I can promise that you cant do it.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: mshieh on April 28, 2004, 04:34:56 pm
" Anyhoo, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the zoqfot for worst ship. I can do significantly more damage with a drone than I can with a stinger."

The zoqfot is my *favorite* ship.  I can beat the 300 point armada on awesome with only zoqfots.  That's a near 100% win rate too, not "I managed to do it once."

The only ship I couldn't master was the Supox Blade.  No matter what I did, I just couldn't kill a Chmmr with anything resembling 30 points of Supox.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Death 999 on April 28, 2004, 08:36:58 pm
Which is ironic considering how little the Chmmr can do about a decent Supox pilot ripping him to shreds.

The trick is to maintain the longest range you can manage. The tractor is weaker at longer distances, you see. At long range, you can maintain distance with just the reversed thrust. At medium range, which you will end up in from time to time, you must use reverse AND lateral thrust. Alternately, you can while using lateral thrust release the special key so you turn and whip by the Chmmr.

Once again, do this before you are pulled close. Your pods are medium-ranged, so use that range.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 28, 2004, 09:37:14 pm
ahhh - I thought that the tractor affected all things the same regardless of the range.

One thing that should happen though, is it just me or does it affect smaller ships more?


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Vassago_Umara on April 30, 2004, 07:47:30 am
I'm not sure, but I think the rate of the tractor has something to do with the rate of acceleration of the ship being pulled.  So for the most part it would affect smaller faster ships more.  Except for the peice of junk drone.  Stupid blobbies...


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Captain Smith on April 30, 2004, 11:18:58 am
The tractor works only well with a parallel line in the front of the ship.  The tractor gets weaker away from that line.  As an example, the Supox thrusting backwards CAN AND WILL get sucked in towards the Chmmr, but if the Supox uses the lateral thrust every once in a while to stay away from that parallel line it can stay away from the Chmmr all day.

Quote
ahhh - I thought that the tractor affected all things the same regardless of the range.

One thing that should happen though, is it just me or does it affect smaller ships more?



Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: FalconMWC on April 30, 2004, 10:04:30 pm
Quote
I'm not sure, but I think the rate of the tractor has something to do with the rate of acceleration of the ship being pulled.  So for the most part it would affect smaller faster ships more.  Except for the peice of junk drone.  Stupid blobbies...



So what your saying is that the chmmr does not affect the umagh?

To have some fun, just take a chmmr versus 5 drones. You can slingshot that ship into the planet so hard, it would kill everyone of impact if it were real. That is fun to try sometimes...


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Chrispy on May 01, 2004, 05:03:47 am
The tracter is also weak vs a ship flying sideways to it. So rotate your orz turrets to a wierd angle a let loose ;D


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Tiberian on May 01, 2004, 07:07:32 pm
The tractor beam does affect smaller ships more, which is pretty logical. As an example, the Shofixti scout gets totally out of control when captured in tractor beam. I guess it has something to do with the ships mass. Maybe someone who knows the code could explain it?


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Shiver on May 02, 2004, 07:41:26 am
The Syreen Penetrator gets pulled around by the tractor beam worse than anything else as far as I've seen. I would assume this is intentional; they didn't want Syreen beating down Chmmr.


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Terminator on May 03, 2004, 01:06:21 am
There seems to be a mis conception about the Druuge Mauler you don't NEED to burn crew to regain energy it does regenerate on it's own, just incredibly slowly.  As for the (worst is not a very good word) least versatile ship would have to be the Earthling Crusier it can basiclly only kill Mycon's(like what ship can't)

TERMINATOR - the obnoxious one


Title: Re: The worst ship?
Post by: Dalrok on May 03, 2004, 01:37:09 am
Drone is in fact one of the best ships if we consider the prices. Skilled Umgah pilot can beat or hurt badly a Dreadnough, a Marauder or a Broodhome. It's also very effective against Maulers.