The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Captain Smith on May 18, 2004, 05:33:18 am



Title: Your current melee set
Post by: Captain Smith on May 18, 2004, 05:33:18 am
what is the current melee set you are playing?  

Right now with the computer on awesome I'm doing either one of the 100 point teams versus the 300 point armada.  Sometimes I win, sometimes I don't...but that's what I'm doing for a challenge these days.

What about you all?


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Shiver on May 18, 2004, 06:52:28 am
Shofixti's vs. anything = a good, tough fight.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Tiberian on May 18, 2004, 04:19:59 pm
my melee team is the following:

Chenjesu
Shofixti
Ur-Quan
Earthling
Spathi
Pkunk
Vux
Utwig
Slylandro
Melnorme
Druuge
Zog-Fot-Pik
Syreen
Orz

I mainly play against my brother, whose team is following:

Ur-Quan
Kohr-Ah
Mycon
Utwig
Earthling
Thraddash
Slylandro
Arilou
Pkunk
Melnorme
Syreen
Androsynth
Orz
Chmmr

As you can see, 8 of the 14 we have, are the same. When my brother isn't around I just practice against awesome cpu with the same ships. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

I always play with random ship selection. How about you people?


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on May 18, 2004, 07:05:35 pm
Mine:
Orz Nemesis
Yeaht Terminator

PC:
Koar-ah
Ur-quan
Chmmr
Mycon
Earthling
Vux
Melnorme
Pkunk
Druuge
Utwig
Orz
Chenjesu
Ilwrath
Thraddash.

You probably think : yea right....
But to be honest I sometimes wins... You will be suprised how many ships the nemesis and the terminator (especially the terminator ;D ) can take.

The only problems are the Utwig, Vux ( sometimes) and the Melnorme for both ships.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Vassago_Umara on May 19, 2004, 06:50:00 am
Anyone who doesn't play with a Spathi seems crazy to me...


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: FalconMWC on May 19, 2004, 07:07:29 pm
They are exellent against all computers and good against draining a utwig shield.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Terminator on May 20, 2004, 09:57:13 am
I mix it up a little with Skiff's, X-Forms(of course), Juggers and Eluders(last resort).

After a while you find some really fun matchups like X-form vs Guardian and Skiff vs Eluder.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: FalconMWC on May 20, 2004, 08:01:01 pm
Are you referring to human or Computer Terminator? As I can kill a spathi with arlou on awsome without trouble almost everytime.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Chrispy on May 21, 2004, 01:41:05 am
But killing an ariloo with a spathi isnt so easy.

I like killing spathis with orz. I have my gun to the back but a little sideways and I keep turning so that I can hit him but he cant hit me.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Captain Smith on May 21, 2004, 05:57:19 am
I agree with Falcon - Arilou (you) vs. Spathi (awesome computer) is almost a slamdunk for the Arilou.

Quote
But killing an ariloo with a spathi isnt so easy.



Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Terminator on May 21, 2004, 08:36:48 am
Quote
Are you referring to human or Computer Terminator? As I can kill a spathi with arlou on awsome without trouble almost everytime.


I don't use Terminators I find them very clumsy vessels har.har.har. Arilou are a challenge to beat regardless of what you use try an X-Form very interesting battle.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Chrispy on May 22, 2004, 03:49:24 am
A lot of the time when I fight skiffs I sacrifice crew to let them burn down their fuel, and then I kill them.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Deep-Jiffa on May 22, 2004, 10:47:02 am
Quote
A lot of the time when I fight skiffs I sacrifice crew to let them burn down their fuel, and then I kill them.


Ah.... For the computer AI, it stops shooting when it has the minimum energy required for a warp, so you kind of waste your crew for nothing  :o


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Tiberian on May 22, 2004, 04:52:52 pm
It took me forever to notice that Druuge Mauler is a perfect ship against Chmmr Avatar. The power that pushes the Mauler ship back when shooting, is stronger than Avatar's tractor beam and therefore you can easily shoot your batteries dry and hold still. If it looks like you are getting too close to the Avatar, just increase rate of fire and burn your crew for more batt. It's really excellent.

As for the Utwig Jugger, I prefer using Vux Intruder to destroy it, since it only requires one gravity whip to get ahead the Jugger and then slime it. After the first slime ball, it's easy to hit more. And then I keep sliming it until it is so slow that I can circle around it's back and start having fun.

I don't use Spathi Eluder, because in human vs human battles, the fight tends to get boring when there is an Eluder on the field, since there are very few ships that can match it speed and catch it.

I dislike fighting against CPU, because it has inhuman reflexes. Trying to hit a CPU Pkunk Fury takes forever and Jugger is nearly impossible to kill unless I misuse the AI and drain it's shield in a lame way.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Dwight_Trammel on May 23, 2004, 11:55:05 pm
If I play against computer(awesome), I prefer faster ships; Pkunk, Arilou, Shofixti etc. Spathi is also great for destroying both Ur-Quans. To computer's side I put mostly both Ur-Quans, Chmmr, Chenjesu etc. I like challenges, because I am Peewee incarnate 8).

If I play against my cousin Jack, my melee team is: Ur-Quan, Kohr-Ah, Chmmr, Chenjesu, Mmrnmhrm, Melnorme, Utwig, Androsynth, Arilou, Orz, Pkunk, Slylandro, Spathi and Yehat. 309 points, awesome team.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Death 999 on May 28, 2004, 04:10:11 am
Battleship Sampler:
Chenjesu, Chmmr, Kohr-Ah, Ur-Quan, Utwig, Melnorme, Mycon

Opponent: computer using a variety of things -- basically the default teams above 200 points.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Korvin on June 15, 2004, 03:19:15 am
try druuge fleet on both sides...
this is the real melee!!!!  ;)


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Melnorme on August 07, 2004, 01:56:50 am
3 Melnorme, 3 Thraddash, 1 Skiff [Last Resort]  = 100 points

.....I'm yet to lose a fight

[assuming the teams have at least roughly equal point ratings]


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Melnorme on August 07, 2004, 02:02:16 am
Quote
It took me forever to notice that Druuge Mauler is a perfect ship against Chmmr Avatar



Disagree entirely. The Torch is the best ship. Afterburner flames knock out zapsats like theres no tomorrow, whilst also ensuring that you never get caught by the tractor beam. Even if it pillboxes, the gun, albeit rather pea-shooter-esque, can outrange it easily, and it takes TWO zapsats to detroy a shot, so you can still take it out.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: FalconMWC on August 07, 2004, 04:28:21 am
Have you tried playing against a human? The Thraddash suddenly becomes a lot less valuable.....


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 07, 2004, 11:07:07 am
I'm in Australia, so no, i have never played SC2 against another human. =/

My current melee set is 2 Thraddash 2 Arilou 5 Orz 5 Mrnhmhnm =p

With those, i am pretty damn deadly against any group of ships.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Melnorme on August 07, 2004, 04:47:39 pm
Yes - I've played against humans, and I still find the Thraddash valuable since I can avoid getting hit, and even if my opponent avoids the afterburner, I can pick em apart with the gun which has surprisingly long range, and the bullets don't get destroyed by point-defense or the Umgah cone etc.

Plus, I only use the Thraddash for certain opponents against whom the Melnorme are weak, for example Avatars. Whilst I can take em out, you have to get lucky on your start position to be in range to screw em, or your screwed - so the Thraddash is the best bet.

.....and by the way - I ain't lost vs humans either. It's worth pointing out though that I've only had the game maybe 2 weeks, so neither me or my friends are really accustomed to the game as such. I used to play the original though so probably have the edge at the minute.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 07, 2004, 11:55:16 pm
Woe is me that internet play is not possible in even the near future, Timewarp just doesn't feel right.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: taleden on August 09, 2004, 04:44:00 am
Yeah, I think the devs should take a detour from the 'straight port first' philosophy just to enable internet melee.  Then at least we all have something to play with while they finish the port and the real fun begins.  :)


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 09, 2004, 01:53:43 pm
Its not a matter of programming time.
Its a matter of the limit of C in relation to the internet and the way the game itself is structured. I think.

I just don't think its possible to enable internet play without redoing the whole game in C++ or some other code.

Of course, thats what i've come to assume from the Dev's


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: meep-eep on August 09, 2004, 09:41:01 pm
Quote
Its a matter of the limit of C in relation to the internet and the way the game itself is structured. I think.

I just don't think its possible to enable internet play without redoing the whole game in C++ or some other code.

It's not a limit of C. You can do in C what you can do in C++, though it's usually easier to program in a structured way in C++.

The way the melee engine works is that every frame (24 times per second), the player has a chance to influence the game. But if every frame the state has to be transmitted, every packet should be sent within 1000/24 = 41.7ms. That's good enough for LAN play, but usually not for over the internet. You can change that number by only allowing input every n frames. If the packets get processed within 100 ms, that's probably still hardly noticable. But it shouldn't get any slower. And the latency should be consistent. Average good latency is not necessarilly good enough. And a lost packet is very costly, as that means the sender of that packet will have to be notified that the packet was lost, and send it again, which will be very noticable as small pauses, unless the latency was very low in the first place.
Using this scheme, the game is synchronised every frame on both computers.

If you want it to work on higher latencies, you'll have to let go of the frame-wise synchronisation. Both sides need to predict what the other player will do (most of the time the player will keep doing what he was already doing, like pressing the up arrow), and if a prediction was wrong, the simulation will have to be rerun (non-visibly) based on the new values, and what the player sees has to be adjusted according to the newly calculated positions. This may cause the enemy ship to move a bit shockingly if the latency is high for a moment or if packets get lost, but there should be no pauses in the simulation unless no packets have been received for a long time.

Using the first method, a lot of existing code will have to be modified. Using the second method, networked play can be considered just as using a remote joystick as input, which will be a lot less work.
But either way, there will also have to be code for setting up the connection in the first place, with new menus, new graphics for those menus, etc.
We just don't want to do that right now, while there are more important things still to be done, some of which will make the netplay work easier. Some already have.



Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Nubbster on August 10, 2004, 12:10:35 am
Right now I use 1 Kohr-Ah, Chmmr, Utwig, Spathi, Androsyn, Earthling, Thraddash (136 points) vs. the 300 point armada awesome computer. Most of the time I win, but sometimes I lose.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 10, 2004, 04:53:08 pm
Ah, I see... sounds like hell =/

One can only dream that version 1.1 will have network play, then onto bigger things =p


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: spittlebug on August 10, 2004, 04:53:11 pm
2 Melnorme, 5 Androsyn  ;D

111points


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Death 999 on August 10, 2004, 08:28:06 pm
I go against 3 Orz, 4 Androsynth, and 3 Arilou, with an equivalent cost of mycon. Last time, I only lost 4 podships.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 12, 2004, 08:14:21 am
Androsynth are easily taken out, if theyre AI.
Podships will own them.

How the hell did you manage to take out 3 Arilou with Podships? I average like 5 podships to Arilou.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: 976-KILL on August 13, 2004, 06:30:43 pm
Podships are easily blazed......

I'm not a mycon fan so I wouldn't know how they fair vs computer controlled guards, but I own both computer and human mycons with Androsyns.

I second that question Sander. In SC1 I used to use Arilou as much, if not more than Androsyns, and Mycons were ALWAYS a 'slam-dunk'. Even If your considerably better at Mycon piloting than the computer, which undoubtebly you will be,
Quote
How the hell did you manage to take out 3 Arilou with Podships? I average like 5 podships to Arilou.  


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Death 999 on August 14, 2004, 12:18:11 am
Grav-whip until you're going much faster than the arilou. Then you can regenerate at will. It will be somewhat drawn out, but they simply can't hurt you enough to kill you before you regenerate.

On the offense side, wait for the Arilou to charge in close. Drop a pod and drop another one about one second later. Sometimes it dodges into the second one. Also, if you are really cruising, you can fire a pod so that it materializes inside the target.

As for the Androsynth, face its charge and fire twice as it begins to ram. It will do 3, 6, or 9 damage, depending on your timing, but you will get the two shots you need. Don't fire before the last moment, as it might dodge or the plasmoid might diminish in strength.

Honestly, the trickiest battles were against the Orz. Mycon have a tough time with a horde of marines.


Title: Re: Your current melee set
Post by: Dalrok on August 15, 2004, 01:57:05 am
Someone here mentioned that Spathi should be in every fleet and it's stupid to left it out. This might be true against computers, but against human players Spathi should be left out from every fleet. Only thing it does is make the melee last twice as long and the ship itself is boring. Thraddash is similar, but not as bad because it doesn't have so much crew.

In the melee *group* I play in, Thraddash, Spathi (always) and Jugger are usually left out from fleets to make the game more enjoyable.

In my opinion it's stupid to play with random ships, because then there's no strategy and luck matters much more, because the game's full of ships and counter ships.

Against computer I often play with the team "Little dudes with attitudes" and give computer old alliance, old hierarcy or 200 pt armada. I sometimes win and sometimes lose.