The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

Yes yes, I know. You're all in a state of disbelief that us remixers are still alive after the lifetimes since the last remix pack. Fear not, for we are still strong! It's time to add another set of remixes to the game, and this time we're giving you the Ur-Quan hierarchy of battle thralls, plus some nice extras.

As usual, you're probably going to have a hard time adjusting to some of these new versions, since many of them differ quite a lot from the originals. However, I'm confident that you'll come to love them more than than the originals when you've listened to them a few times. Some themes got different approaches, like for example the Ur-Quan and the Mycon, while others are more loyal to the source material.

Once again you have the choice between downloading a zip-file ready for installing into the game, or going to our website at www.spacesynth.net/precursors and downloading the mp3s. We appreciate all comments and reviews you can toss our way, especially the nice ones. ;) I'd like to remind you that our website allows you to post comments and reviews directly to the song download page, securing you the spotlight whenever someone wants to download that particular remix.

For the third (but not the last) time, we hope you enjoy the music.

Espen Gätzschmann & the remixing group


PS: The download of the full zip package might not be working for a few hours yet, depending on how fast the mirrors are updated. You can still get the mp3s at the Precursors site.

Be sure to check the bonus pack when possible (Precursors songs already available as mp3). There are some good tracks in it too.. especially the two new battle songs.

Awsome, downloading both as we speak. I am also smiling as we speak.  :)

Listening to the bonus pack now. Tis awsome. Truely godly. Lower case g but still godly. Can't wait till the official ones download cus I assume they are even better:D:D

I'll be sure to post some awsome feedback/compliments as soon as admire your work for a day or two. You guys rock!


EDIT: Um yes, I'm done listening to them all. Wow, not one track disappointed me. Awsome.

I love this Mortal Kombat Remix I got right now. The melee in this game always did remind me of that a little bit...

The Kohr-Ah battle track is too slow to be a battle track. No harm done, it's just an extra.

More to come.

...

Oh no.

What have they done with the Ur-Quan theme? You guys have done some really nice work with the atmosphere and everything but what in The Nine Hells is this thing you're doing the beats with? I really like roughly half of what you guys release, but the tracks I'm really looking forward to always end up being on the bad side of someone's experiment. Well, the Yehat's still up for grabs, I guess.

On a brighter note, the VUX and Umgah are very nice.

Of the four I've heard:

Thraddash - GREAT!!!!  It's pretty much everything I could hope for and more.  First class work.

Mycon - The original mycon theme wasn't a favorite of mine until I listened to it outside the game.  Convo's with the mycon don't tend to be extended, and it takes a while to really shine.  But when it gets to it, it's awesome.  Same with the remix, another sure to be fave.

Kohr-Ah Battle - Cool, atmospheric, fun to listen to.  Wouldn't use it as an actual in game combat theme - would work perfectly as backgroup to an animated cutscene, if UQM had em though.

Ur-Quan - Er.  Um.  I like just about everything, it screams fear.  I especially like where it breaks into the organ and vocals in the middle.  But I've got to go with Shiver, whatever it is keeping the beat sounds like a skipping CD, and drives me up the wall.


will expand as more downloads finish, 56k is hell.

Buuurn baby.... I have 750k. Downloaded in 5 minutes!!! :P

Lets see....
Winamp on.
Starterupsteve.com flashes are closes...
Pr0n is closed.

.....

I said pr0n is closes FFS. That's it.
I think I am ready to listen to these fine remixs.
Lets begin!

Wind of change 2003  remix: Wrong remixs, Sorry.

Arrrrrgh!!! Since when do I have "winamp lite"? It can't play the ogg files. I guess I will have to download again in mp3 format.

Buuuurn baby buurn....

Ur quan - Now and Forever

Sounds awesome but it just doesn't go well with the Ur-quan. That is too bad, it just isn't right. Still, great music.

Ilwrath - All Evil
Already know that song :) At least it is like the earlier remix that I have ( don't remember who did it). Some parts were good some parts were bad and just made my ears hurt. I prefer the older one. No pain.

VUX - Ultra-gross

Excullent remix!!! Just great!

Umgah - Genetic Modification

Funny one. ;D

Mycon - Rebirth

Already in the beginning I knew this remix don't fit to the Mycon. Once again, just like in the Ur-quan case. Good music, but doesn't fit.

Thraddash - Culture 19

Didn't fail me here either ;D
First remix that I just like all parts! Yey.

Kohr-Ah - Cleansing Required

Best remix yet in this entire pack, two times I almost got chill in my back.

Orbit IV - Cold Tectonics

Fair one.

Orbit V - Extraterrestrial Lifeforms
Fair one.

Overall: Well, it was a good remix pack but isn't as good as the other two. I just liked very much the other two. There were remixs there that was too good to be true. It is very hard to do better than this. I hope it will happens in the last remix :)

Now to a whole diffrent music!!! Sing with me!
click (http://www.koit.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/heads.html)

To those of you commenting that the Ur-Quan theme doesn't fit in the game:

I'm 95% sure you actually didn't try it in the game. Of all the remixes in the entire project, the Ur-Quan is the one that feels the most different between Winamp and the game itself. Try installing the pack and starting a new game, listening to the conversation with the Ur-Quan probe. You'll see the music in a whole new perspective.

About the drums: With the exception of the timpani, the drums are all mouth voices. We wanted to make them different and alien, and it sounds like it worked. ;)

I admit the tracks are good, the Ur-Quan theme is not particularly bad, simply overhyped. It does however lack two things which the make the tune a hit the original, was dramatic and made to intimidate. Like the Rooftop theme from TM1 http://www.tmalliance.com/mp3/tm1_rooftop.mp3. I'm really not complaining it just seems that this version has lost it's kick. I realize that the challenge is to recrate a tune's mood yet make it different in it's own respect, some things will be lost in translation, it is unavoidable. So don't go telling these people, who aren't getting paid, their song sucks, simply voice want you think is missing or used in excess.

TERMINATOR - The Obnoxious One

EDIT: Some tracks can only get better while others cannot be topped look at what you are comparing it to before you rate it.

Heh heh, I tried some of them in the game. Melee and ur-quan. But thats only after I liked them.

I love both versions of the ur-quan. The full one is sweet. The all organ one is sweet. They both sound great and fit the urquan perfectly.

What can I say, I guess I'm easy to please.

I'll make it short ;)


Add-on pack 3:
Thraddash (Espen/TA) - woah! guys, you've topped Ringwraith's remix (http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?/classicgaming/starcontrol/remixes/ringwraith-thraddash_cover_ogg.zip), imo! well done! *bows in honor*.
Kohr-Ah (Riku) - I can't quite make that flanger effect grow on me, but otherwise it fits and it sounds great!
Ilwrath (Riku) - I've heard this one before.. searched the forum - couldn't find a link to it. your experiment with the electric-distortion failed. please bring the older version back! !! don't ruin a perfect thing.
Mycon (Riku) - very nice. lacking a bit the atmoshpere of the Mycon's slow, magma-hot, dark and pulsing personality, but haven't tested it in-game yet.
Umgah (Jouni) - I'm so glad you didn't leave it with that insane remix from the earlier bonus pack. I always hated the Umgah. I guess I still hate them!
VUX (Espen/TA) - lovin' it! nice drum effects and the metal distortion works great! OOH! and it loops! :D
Kzer-Za (Espen/TA) - I had to change my equalizer presets a few times before I hit the one that fits this song. excellent - doesn't lack the atmosphere, and honours the Kzer-Za.

one thing - I'm not sure if this would work, but could you please try this - change the 'kshht' drum sample to a strong, bass-full heart-beat sample; it can quicken as we get into the "scary atmosphere" of the song ;) -  and the main instrument that plays the first few seconds of the song - I think it's supposed to be a violin.. but it doesnt sound like one! try a good violin sample, or an orchestra of violins! yessss!! hehe.
I imagine this would only take a few minutes to setup, at least just a sample-switch, and I'm hoping you'll let us know if my guesses can indeed add to this amazing piece!


Bonus pack 3:
Ur-Quan (Erol Otus) - lol, now I see where you got the organ idea ;)
Kohr-Ah (Jouni)- I don't like ambient music, and so I'd refrain from commenting here.
Mortal Melee (Jouni) - see, this is so much better than ambient music ::)
Vux (Aaron Grier) - Cool!
Kohr-Ah Battle (Espen) - didn't try it in game, but I think it'd fit!

Actually, you don't. :) It was Tore who came up with the idea of using an organ, and I came up with the idea for the soprano. We didn't hear Erol Otus' version until our version was mastered and ready.

Regarding your idea for the heartbeat, I can't see it working. In any case, I tried an alternative to the high-pitched "snare" today, but it just didn't work. It gives the remix balance, and it just feels like something is missing if you exchange it with something else.

Any chance we could perhaps see an alternative of that with the high pitched 'snare' replaced by a sample of an actual snare?  It's not the presence of the drum that gets me, just that the actual sample is a little grating.

Well I got a positive story on the Kzer-Za remix. Not about how it would fit in game though but about the music itself :)
I was playing it in my room and my girlfriend came in and she was like "whoa, whats that?"
"Uhm, well, its the ur-quan music remix for the starcontrol2 remake"
"Oh cool, I want it! Gimme! its in your shared directory right?"
"Uhm, sure!"
And she went to her room, and leeched it from my HD :D
(Yes we live together in the same house, but we both have our own room, becouse its nice to have your own room)
I dont think I can get her to play UQM though... She actually is a pretty hardcore gamer chick, lots FPS and some RPG and stuff, but she only started when she was 18 wich was back in '99 so she is a little spoiled graphic wise I guess ;) her first game was half-life.
Anywayz, not to topic drift, this is a testimony to the songs inherent coolness!

That's really cool, Chainiac! :)

Yes, there's a chance we might release an alternate mix of the Ur-Quan with something else replacing the "snare". However, this won't happen until we find something to replace it with that we think sounds good. Don't expect it for a little while, since I'd rather focus my efforts on pack 4 for now.

Strings (well pits strings anyways) were playing the main melody. The slower couterpoint melody was done by choirs, but I'm quite sure your talking about the strings that are already there.

Excellent Job, so far I have only listened to the Umagh remix and it is great!

jeeze, I'm amazed no one's complained about how the thrddash sounds like music from star control 3.

After listening to them all, all I can say is, I like them all.

OMG OMG OMG   :) :)
great work on the remixes I especially liked the Ur-Quan, Kohr-Ah, Mortal melee, and most of all, the thraddash remix -- this one is one of the greates so far especially the part from minute 1:02 to 1:15. EDIT: BTW, I think I liked it since it reminded me some music from the very first C&C.

But I less like the Hierarchy remixes so no wonder I dont REALLY like many of them. The vux is also very well done and so is the Mycon. The Ilwrath Riku released it about a year ago. The rest are nice but not far greater than the original.

hope it wont take another 6 months for the next pack =]

-SLYLENDROOL

The Ilwrath isn't the same remix. Yes it sounds the same but it isn't.

Lots more distortion

The Thraddash one is great.. It really fits them. You know. They were willing to cut off their own limbs.. So.. ;)

Mycon one is great, too. Reminds me of this song from Dune II....

I love the new Quan. At first, I thought it lacked the impression of overwhelming power that the old song had. You know, the music that made you realise at the probe encounter how much freaking trouble you were in.

The new one doesn't start out as overwhelming. But somehow, a bit into, it inspires thought of a sinister, powerful force. A unstoppable force.

Oh, the others are good as well, but I thought I'd give you some good feedback on that one as it's beng shot down around ehre. I liek the drum thing too. ;)

UQM-Precursors Remix Review

OK, I’m a little late to the whole Precurosors’ Remix thing. So, I downloaded all 3 remix sets and got to listening. And now, I’m telling you what I think. Before I get to my thoughts, I would like to say the following on my feelings on remixing in general.

Nine times out of 10, when somebody dedides to remix a piece of music, they do it poorly. At least, poorly to my tastes. If I enjoy a piece of music, I don’t like listening to music that sounds vaguely familiar, but lacks the basic essence of why the original piece works. Nowhere is this more common than videogame music. Most remixers tend to think that they know far more about how to evoke emotion and feelings than experienced composers, and they therefore start to interject their own, usually crappy, ideas into that music. This leads, almost inexorably, to disaster.

I find the best remixes are the ones where the the listener has a profound respect for the melody and ideas that the original composition was attempting to get across. In short, the best remixes are the ones that stick pretty close to the source material. I despise, with all of my being, attempts to re-genre a piece (turn a classical piece into a jazz piece); doing this is like defecating on a piece of music to me.

If this is the case, what’s the point of a remix? Simple: a remix can add to a piece, and it can use better instruments/samples. Take the 3DO remixes for UQM, for example. The battle music, in particular. Much cleaner samples than the .mod originals, and the occassional added intensity here and there. Better quality, and enhances the original. Overall: superior to the original.

There are a few cases where melodic reinterpretation is good, however. The 3DO version of the QuasiSpace music is an excellent example. The original clearly had an intent, but it wasn’t quite getting the job done. The 3DO version was exceptional; it took some of the melodic elements and made them fulfill their role. In this case, the original piece was lacking in something that the remix added.

Basically, what I’m trying to say is that I don’t tend to take too well to massive reinterpretations of music simply for the purpose of stroking the remixer’s ego. If you’re going to severly alter a piece of music, it had better need it. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Which brings me to the reviewing portion of this post:


Set 1: Super Melee!

I’m not going through all the ditties.

* The Battle of the Sa-Matra

Hands down, the best music in SC2 for me was the fighting music. Even after a 30+minute Mycon battle, it never got old.

This thing, with its silly Star Trek-like sound effects, doesn’t deserve to have any affiliation with that masterpiece. This is nothing short of a musical atrocity. It may keep the melody, but the presentation kills any of the power this piece may have had.

* Outfit the Vindicator

See, I knew you guys could do something worthwhile. Stick to a good melody, add better/cleaner instruments, and all is good.

* Shipyard: Rough Repair

Surprisingly good. Granted, the original didn’t do anything for me, so any alteration is fine with me.

* Starbase

Taking a 37 second piece and turning it into a 5:51 second piece usually doesn’t bode well for any semblence of the melody. So, basically, this turned into somebody’s ego-fest. Somebody got to make up their own little melody and had some StarControl music bolted on.

That’s nice and all, but that doesn’t make it a remix. It makes it somebody’s composition with some stolen music added on. Not only that, it isn’t a great composition on its own merrits.

* Exploration

Once again, turning a short piece into a long piece. The last one was at least a little energetic. This piece doesn’t make me think about wandering the planets in a star system; it just puts me to sleep. It’s just that boring.

* Commander – Corridor Nine

This was a fine piece of music, at one time. Then, somebody who clearly thought that they knew more than the original composer, got their hands on it and ruined it. Not quite to the level of Battle of the Sa-Matra, but still pretty bad. This piece has none of the flavor of the original, and only a scant piece of the original melody remains.

* Orbit 1 – To Mine the Heavens

Another fantastic original composition. You could (and would) hear this piece for hours over a playing of the game. And it never got old.

This is a relatively faithful reproduction of the original. It’s good, but it adds a few too many sound-effects to be truly great.


Overall: Highly disappointed with volume 1. They unabashedly brutalized some of the best music in the game. Jouni Airaksinen has committed a crime and should be punished severly.

Set 2: Neutral Aliens, Don't Shoot!

* Welcome to Falayalaralfali

I don’t believe it. This is a massive departure from the original; I can’t recognise any of the original melody in it. And yet, it works. It works very well. Much like the 3DO remix of the QuasiSpace music, you could slide this into the game and (except for the quality difference in terms of samples) it’d work just fine in place of the original

That’s probably the highest compliment I can pay any remix that is a departure from the original.

* Through the Angles of Space

I’m still ambivalent on this one. The initial sound was terrible; not at all the feeling one should have on entering Q-Space. It’s just too heavy. However, the rest is very good. Much less of a departure than that of the 3DO remix. In the end, however, the beginning, to me, is what makes it inferior to the 3DO version.

* Property of the Crimson Corporation

Because it’s going to come up quite a bit, later on, I’m going to say this here: I don’t like it when a remix doodles around for the first 12 measures or so with its own little melody, then jumps into the initial bars of the actual song. If you’re going to follow the original, do it. If not, then don’t. But don’t do it half-way.

That being said, this piece is except from that rule because of one thing: the cry just before it hits the familiar Druuge music. We all know what that’s from: someone feeding the furnace. This goes a long way into connecting with the Druuge. Not that the rest is bad; indeed, it is quite good, despite some of the liberties taken with the melody a bit later. But the beginning really sets the mode.

Also, btw, this is an excellent example of the right way to deviate from the original. The Druuge music is typicfied by this relentless, headlong marching beat. It drives the Druuge music as the Crimson Corporation drives their culture. Though this piece plays with that beat, it never falls away entirely, and remains the core of the piece, despite the melodic interventions.

* Hyperspace – Across the Galaxy

3 in a row. You guys were going so well. Maybe it’s because I didn’t really care for those three pieces in their original form.

Now, go you fart this turd out. This is an atrocity on the level of Battle of the Sa-Matra. This has none of the adventureous feel of the original. It is way too light. The original melody was perfect for long-range space travel. This is nothing by comparison.

Riku Nuottajärvi, apparently, composed the original and this atrocity. Clearly, his skills have deteriorated, or he was extraordinarily lucky the first time out. Or he just didn’t know what to do with perfection, and spewed out this thing.

* Melnorme – Turning Purple

A quick comment on the original. I didn’t like it too much. I like parts of it, but I never really felt that it worked for the Melnorme.

The remix doesn’t improve the piece. It does some more stuff with the melody, but it doesn’t actually make the music any more appropriate for the Melnorme.

* Orbit II – Around the Rainbow Worlds

Technically, this is a remix of a 3DO piece; the original didn’t differentiate between the orbital music. I still think Orbit I sounds the best, the 3DO Remix version being the best version of it.

Apparently, this music is used for Rainbow Worlds. It is nicer than the 3DO music, more mysterious, but it is too human (FYI: exotic human instruments doesn’t make it alien) to be for a world where the Precursors once walked (even if they used it as a garbage dump). It doesn’t fit it’s place in the game, but it’s not a bad piece of music.

* Orbit III – Planet Red Alert

One of the better 3DO orbital pieces.

A 1:31 minute piece stretched into 5:31 minutes. If you take something good, and force it to last longer, it doesn’t make it better. In this case, they took something good, put a bunch of crappy filler, took out most of the “melodic” components of the original, and made it last for 5+ minutes. Doesn’t work. Sorry, please try again.

* Sylandro Home – Floating Gas Bags

Very well done. See, if you stick to the melody, you can make something very nice. It uses some dead space as part of remixing (a common remixing technique where the melody drops out), but it works pretty well in this piece.

* Slylandro Probe – We Come in Peace!

OK, I know it’s part of the original melody and all, but we seriously don’t need to hear “We come in peace” every 5 seconds. These are not words that are going to create a nice melody.

Oddly, I was listening to the original, and I realized that the only sample it uses, outside of the occasional drum beat, is that one line, at different frequencies.

This just means that both of them are crappy (I never cared for the original). Though I have to say that the fact that I only now realized this means that those words can apparently form a melody of some kind when modulated appropriately. Not a good one, though.

* Safe Haven – Spathi-home theme

I honestly can’t say why I like this piece. It does that annoying intro thing before getting to the melody. It is, at least, well integrated in this case.

It just all somehow seems to work. It fits together well, and it sounds very Spathi-ish.

* Talking Pet – Didn’t You Mean to Ask About Flowers?

Here’s a piece of music where I can’t fault them for sticking with the melody: there isn’t one. ;) It’s a nice sounding piece, though I’m not sure how much it fits the Talking Pet. His original “music” was so sedate as to not be noticeable. Maybe that was intensional.

Overall: What they did to the Hyperspace music is unforgivable. Riku must be stopped before he destroys another of his fine original compositions. Otherwise, overall pretty decent.


Set 3: The Ur-Quan Hierarchy

* Cleansing Required

OK, Riku Nuottajärvi, repeat after me, “The Kohr-Ah should not have a beat. I should not be able to swing to Kohr-Ah music. My head should not, at any point during their music, wish to bob up and down. Dan Nicholson knew what he was doing, and is a better composer than I am.”

* All Evil

Shockingly good. Notice how it takes few liberties with the original melody. It flows just like the original.

Riku is definitely hit-or-miss. This was a hit.

* Rebirth

Once upon a time Riku made a great piece of music for the Mycon. It was soft, subtle, and a bit weird. It worked for the Mycon. At no time could it be classified as rollicking, swinging, or energetic. Much like the Mycon.

Riku clearly doesn’t trust his original ideas. This piece is not Mycon music, even though it occassionally touches on Mycon melodies (and poorly, at that). It does something even worse than breaking from the melody: it changes it somewhat. I would rather that you dump the melody entirely than to have half of the melodic line and half of something he just made up.

Not good at all. Definitely not Mycon.

* Orbit IV – Cold Tectonics

Didn’t care for the original. Don’t care for this.

* Orbit V – Extraterrestrial Lifeforms

See directly above.

* Culture 19

Yes, indeed. This is the good stuff. Few liberties taken with the melody, everything sounds like it fits together. Very good.

* Genetic Modification

I don’t care for the sound sample they used for the melodic line (the kind of reverse sound doesn’t work here), but overall very nice.

* Ultra-Gross

This is quite nice, despite the rather scratchy guitar they give the melodic line to. It sticks to the melody for the most part, and sounds very nice with it. When it plays with the melody, it does so intelligently.

* Now and Forever

If this weren’t the Ur-Quan music, I might forgive this. If it had ignored the original melody and did it’s own thing, I might forgive this. But it is, and it didn’t, so I can’t.

This music strips the Ur-Quan of all menace, might, and strength. What was once a relentless piece (that looped so very naturally) that threatened to crush the listener, has become a mild evil that just sits there looking evil. This music took the strong, forceful melody of the original and subdued it, not beneath a crushing wave of bass, but they just made it softer. Ur-Quan are not soft and subdued. They do not lie, they do not decieve. They are the followers of the Path of Now and Forever. You will submit or be destroyed. There is no alternative.

This music actually detracts from the enjoyment of the original melody.


Overall: Some nice pices. The systematic deconstruction of the Ur-Quan and Mycon music, however, is unforgivable.


Overall remix set: Some very nice standout pieces. However, every one of my favorite pieces was trashed, mutilated, perverted, or destroyed in the process of making those standout pieces.

I live in fear of what they will do to such masterpieces as the Chmmr and Yehat music. Could we convince them to just stick with the original on those, or not remix them at all? I don’t think I could stand to hear how they destroy them.

Here's my take on the new Ur-Quan theme.

I love it.  I want it in the game.

I do not want it to be the Ur-Quan Hierarchy's primary musical theme.

The new Ur-Quan theme is creepy.  The Ur-Quan are not creepy.  They are intimidating, ruthless, and way more advanced than you.  That makes them scary.  It does not make them creepy.  The original martial theme, all 30 seconds of it, fit the Hierarchy perfectly.  It was a perfect expression of the indomitable will of of the Ur-Quan to subjugate the entire universe to their will.

The new theme would actually fit the Kohr-Ah quite well.  They *ARE* creepy, and the similar melody with a completely different atmosphere would highlight their similar origins and their now very different cultural goals.

Is there a way I can shift the new theme to the Kohr-Ah and keep the Ur-Quan's old theme for the Ur-Quan?  I used to actually leave my PC in an Ur-Quan conversation to hear that music in the background when I was reading a book, and I can see myself doing much the same with the new theme - although since it's conveniently packaged in a seperate file, I can just keep it in my music folder and play it with WinAmp.

[edit] Is the beat that people are complaining about the one that sounds like somebody sharpening a knife?  That's a big part of the reason the piece seems to fit the Kohr-Ah more than the Ur-Quan - that creepy psycho ambience of somebody sharpening the knife they're going to kill you with behind the whole piece.

Just some friendly criticism to Smaug's posting:
Tastes differ. In fact, if you read the reviews of the other people, you may notice that yours differs a lot from most people's. That doesn't make your taste bad. I think the remixers deserve more courtesy than what you're giving them. So you don't like all of them. Then use the old tracks instead for those.
This isn't a replacement project.

Often when people dislike a remix, it's because of nostalgic attachment to the original. But some of the tracks that don't stick to original music are good tracks in their own right, in my opinion.
Other tracks, you really have to hear in the game itself to fully appreciate. The Ur-Quan remix is one of those, and the space and orbit music are also in this category.

I personally, like you, think that the best remixes are the ones that stay close to the original (except for the few original tracks that weren't much to start with).
Especially Mark Vera's music tries to do this, and very well in my opinion.

Riku's motivations for so drastically changing the HyperSpace music was that there were already plenty of faithful remixes around. I personally don't like the result, but there are enough people that do.

Unlike you, most people prefer the original QuasiSpace .mod music to the 3DO version, which is completely different. You compare the remixed version to the 3DO music, which have as much in common as the .mod version had to the 3DO version. However, it has a lot in common to the .mod version.
The .mod QuasiSpace was one of my favourites, and a part of its strength was its simplicity. Mark's remix is complex, but in my opinion, it is the best track the remix project has produced to date, even though it deviates a lot from the original.

Overal, I get the impression you didn't give these remixes a real chance. Try playing the game with these remix packs. Once you get over the idea that they're not the original, you may get to like them.


Now to jabbrwock:
You can change the tracks that are used in the game.
In the future this will be possible with in-game settings, for now, you'll need to mess a bit with the files.
The same structure that is used in the .zip file, can be used unpacked, in the content dir. Unpacked files always override the packed files.
So to your specific question, to keep the original Ur-Quan theme and replace the Kohr-Ah theme with the new Ur-Quan theme, you could create a directory "comm" in the content dir, where you create a dir "blackur" where you put the Ur-Quan music from the .zip file, and give it the name "blackur.ogg", and get the original Ur-Quan theme and put it in the "urquan" dir in the comm dir.
Alternatively, you could make a new .zip file from the remix pack .zip file, removing blackur.ogg, and renaming urquan.ogg to blackur.ogg and put it in the blackur dir.
If you do this however, be sure to turn off compression when you pack the new .zip file; .ogg files can hardly be compressed at all, but it saves a lot of cpu time in the game if no decompression has to take place. You may hear stuttering otherwise.

Did anyone else notice that the new Ur-Quan song is very much like the boss-musics in Resident Evil games? I'm not saying that it's a bad thing.

Also something to Smaug's posting.

All orbits except the fits Orbit I, are original songs. Not remixes of 3DO versions or the mod version. The Star Control has been only an inspiration to start with.

Also I think you didn't notice, that Command Corridor Nine was originally composed and remixed by Riku himself.

To note about Riku's work something he has said, is that he usually tends to bend the song into remix and not into cover-remix. Especially with song he made originally.

The battle in pack I wasn't originally to be remix (but turned out quite similar). There's one remix Mortal Melee which was made as a remix. But I doubt you like it, as it got all those "silly star trek sounds" ;)

You're waiting for Yehat, be my guest and tell me what you like in it before I rape it for you. :) Chmmr remix is awesome, just wait till you hear it.

Smaug youre a moron  the more original compistion made the remix packjs what they are what did you prefer a boring version of the original .mod music only to add a drums sound???????? most of the music the remix team made is totally original and new, just they added some similar background sound like in "Under a red sky" and "Starbase" it has some music the same only style altered and its much better and I dont have a problem saying that I dont like some of remixes. for example unlike you i didn't like the umgah BECAUSE its just a simple remix of the old .mod file and not very special but I guess you like boring stuff. Instead of complaining like an ovulating bitch try making some good remixes yourself HI KTNX GG NO RE BYE

Smaug, I'll have to start out this post by giving you a tip:

It's obvious that you spent a lot of time and thought on your post above, and I respect that. It's refreshing to see someone so critical of our work, and I'm surprised it took 3 remix packs before someone did it. However, you ruin the entirety of your post by presenting it in a trollish way. By this, I mean that you use personal attacks as a way to get your point through. This does not work. You'll most likely receive several troll posts back thanks to this, although my post won't be one of them.

I realize that you were posting reviews of our remixes, and reviews are never wrong (They are the opinion of the reviewer after all, and opinions can differ a lot). However, some statements in your post are indeed faulty and can be pointed out, which I will now do:

"Most remixers tend to think that they know far more about how to evoke emotion and feelings than experienced composers, and they therefore start to interject their own, usually crappy, ideas into that music. This leads, almost inexorably, to disaster."

This was a pretty interesting statement, since you turned the entire situation completely on its head. Did you know that the original Star Control 2 music came about through a competition between amateur mod-trackers who for the most part had no idea what their music was going to be used for? The remix team, me included, can be considered experienced composers. We have all composed music for at least 10 years. The original composers were not. You could ask Riku if you wanted to. He's one of the original composers from way back then, and is one of the remixers now. In fact, Riku was hands down the best composer from the original game, in my opinion. With a few exceptions, his were the only tracks which showed real musical talent, harmony and planning.

"If this is the case, what's the point of a remix? Simple: a remix can add to a piece, and it can use better instruments/samples."

What you're describing is a remake, not a remix. One of my personal goals as a remixer for this project is to take a good long look at each song I'm assigned, and determine if it REALLY fits my idea of a situation or race. If it does, then I'll try to stick to the original. If it doesn't (which has turned out to be far mor likely so far) then I'll pick up a few elements from the original and make the remix into something I feel fits better than the original. My Arilou remix is a perfect example of this. If it's remakes of the originals you want, I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere than this REMIX project. Remakes simply aren't our goal.

"The 3DO version of the QuasiSpace music is an excellent example. The original clearly had an intent, but it wasn't quite getting the job done. The 3DO version was exceptional; it took some of the melodic elements and made them fulfill their role. In this case, the original piece was lacking in something that the remix added."

Interesting. I think that's the first time I've ever heard anyone say the 3DO Quasispace was better than the MOD Quasispace. Says a lot about opinions, don't you think?

"* Starbase

Taking a 37 second piece and turning it into a 5:51 second piece usually doesn't bode well for any semblence of the melody. So, basically, this turned into somebody's ego-fest. Somebody got to make up their own little melody and had some StarControl music bolted on."

Yup, you could say this was VOiD's and my personal ego-fest for this remix project. We wanted to start out the remixes with a bang, with something we could call a personal masterpiece. That, and we got seriously inspired by looking at the starbase rotating above a slave-shielded Earth. Telling an inspired musician to show restraint is like Indiana Jones stopping, turning around, and telling the rolling boulder to stop.

"* Commander - Corridor Nine

This was a fine piece of music, at one time. Then, somebody who clearly thought that they knew more than the original composer, got their hands on it and ruined it. Not quite to the level of Battle of the Sa-Matra, but still pretty bad. This piece has none of the flavor of the original, and only a scant piece of the original melody remains."

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that the someone who composed this remix knew more than the original composer. It's a safe bet because he's the same composer, and unless he's somehow turned senile lately without me noticing, he should know a lot more after all these years.

"Jouni Airaksinen has committed a crime and should be punished severly."

I'll make sure to give him a good talking to.

"Overall remix set: Some very nice standout pieces. However, every one of my favorite pieces was trashed, mutilated, perverted, or destroyed in the process of making those standout pieces."

Ah yes, here comes the crux of the problem: Nostalgia. We are very aware that the nostalgia in the Star Control 2 community can be absurdly strong in some cases, which is why I take your criticism with a huge grain of salt. That doesn't mean there can't be constructive and reasonable criticism. In fact, we've had plenty of those from other posters in several threads around here. But sometimes the nostalgia comes into the way of reason, and that's when I decide to apply the proverbial grain of salt.  

"I live in fear of what they will do to such masterpieces as the Chmmr and Yehat music. Could we convince them to just stick with the original on those, or not remix them at all? I don't think I could stand to hear how they destroy them."

My final advice to you is to delete our remixes from your HD, remove us from your bookmarks (if you've bookmarked us), and never download any of our upcoming music. I think your memories of Star Control 2 will be better off like that. As you've clearly shown, the remixing project isn't for everyone.

Um.. wow. I did not expect to read this. Well everyones different and that goes with music tastes as well.

I have no problem with new compositions. I use this music to listen to primarily, and use in the game secondarily so I guess my mind is a bit more open. But with the definition of remix aside, there isnt anything wrong with a musician composing a peice of music. If you don't like the new peice of music thats ok but at leased keep an open mind.

I think that the new Ariloo/Mycon/Kohr-ah/Starbase and other new compositions line up highly with the original themes. You dont have to be an original star control 2 composer to be able to write good music.

And now a word about Across the Galaxy. haha, wow I used to hate this one, but after some simple listening and understanding I now love it. Its really relaxing, its a little wierd, its very good. This is just musical taste, but after the music was taken with an open mind.

Well.. The only thing that bothers me in most remixes is that they start slow. Especially Quasispace.. You don't hang around for ages there! It should start quickly! Not come to a climax in 2 minutes!

Also, I think Smaug doesn't like some of them because he has listened to the originals A LOT, like me. Some of them don't have the melody and the beauty the old ones had (most notably: Ur-quan. I don't like the voices there. It should be way eviller..)...

Moving away from the entire techno thing someone could arrange an orchestral version of the ur-quan theme, and have it recorded (money would probably be a factor here). That would truely do the classical-ness justice.

Yo Chrispy,

I am glad that you listened Hyperspace with open mind - I knew already when I was writing it that it might be a bit hard one to swallow when you're waiting for totally different kind of song. I think that "Across the Galaxy" might be the best remix I have done so far for this project (!)

It's always nice to get positive reviews about your songs when you're composer, but it's impossible to please everyone. I haven't ever heard of a band which *everyone* likes.  Too bad that "Precursors" cannot be the first that kind of band...  even when we are trying hard  ;D

Oh, and I am also very sorry to tell "Smaug" that he is late when asking us to be stopped because:

PRECURSORS might be back soon!

- Riku  8)

Ah, good. Some discussion.



I'm not quite sure you understand the point of my post. I already have my opinions on the quality of the various tracks, and I will use them accordingly. The purpose of actually posting opinions is to get them out there. See what others think. And, most importantly, give appropriate criticism to the remixers.

Criticism that, as far as I'm concerned, a number of remixers sorely needed.



That's an odd way of looking at it. If your milk is spoiled, you can't expect it to be fresh tomorrow. If it sounds bad today, it's still going to be bad tomorrow.

And I did find some very good songs in the remix; it's not like I said it was all bad.



Yes, I did, but a bit after I wrote that section. I considered revising it, but I decided to let the nature of it stand. Original composers can go back over their own works and destroy them; see George Lucas.



I'm not sure what he means by that.



You asking? OK.

Take the Yehat .MOD file and load it into your favorite .mod editor. Swap out the samples with cleaner, better-quality versions of them. Record the result into a .wav file and compress it with .ogg. Declare victory.

Failing this, remember what you did with Orbit-1? Do that. That works for me. Or what you did with the Druuge. Maybe what you did with the Spathi and Umgah.

Remember what you did with the Battle music? Stay really far away from that.

Just so you know, I have this playlist that I frequently listen to. It contains 3 songs from each directory of music on my drive, the 3 songs I pick as the best. For many directories, this was a difficult decision. From StarCon2, I selected Battle, Hyperspace, and Yehat. The Ur-Quan music was a close contender for the thrid spot, but the Hyperspace music edged it out. There was never any question about the Battle or Yehat music.



I'm not. I find that it is frequently the case that, when a fairly close nit community is relying on a small group of talented individuals to produce some artistic content, they have a hard time criticizing it. Take Slylandro's post, for example. He seems to feel that it isn't someone's place to criticise unless they can produce similar art.



All this does is let me say that experienced composers are being beaten by some amateur constest winners (and, Riku's, themselves). Some of your stuff is nice, but there is just too much deviation from the original in most of the others (and typically, deviation in a negative way)..



While I certainly can't disagree with the notion that all his tracks were very good (I did pick 2 of them as my 3-favorite), I disagree with the notion that he was the only one who showed talent, harmony and planning. Dan, clearly showed some skill with the Battle, Druuge, and even the Arilou music.

Riku did a good remix job on some tracks, but he had no respect for his own original ideas. Almost as though he didn't trust himself.



It has been known to happen. An inspired composition, looked at years later by the original composer, can have all kinds of mistakes that the composer would, in his older, experienced version, not make.



Are you sure you read the entire post? I had some compliments (and yes, some constructive criticism too) in there, even one for your complete departure with the Arilou.

What you did isn't constructive criticism. What you did is attacking the remix team.

Well Smaug, I could agree with some of the points you've made, yes indeed, alas I'm afraid most of your comments are baseless and not nearly as constructive as you think. I will not start sorting out and quoting all your blabbering, but I believe you should think twice before you arrest, judge and sentence people who not only work for free, but also do it out of their free will and inspiration.

Your idea of a remix is simply despicable. "change the samples to cleaner/better instruments"? no problem! go here (http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/fan/remixes.shtml), look under "pablo", that's exactly what he did. knock yourself out - and don't forget, you could do it better.

oh wait, this one I shall quote for you:

Smaug's recipe for the flawless, utopian remix


Okay Precursors, I'm sorry, you all should go back to your day jobs. Quit whatever you're doing! Smaug will make us much better remixs than yours with a 192kbps OGG files that have 4 channels but clean and better-quality samples!

Really, if you have criticism to write down, do it, but restrain yourself from adding needless remarks and ones such that repeat themselves.



On a happier note, to the remixing team - I was at a friend's house and listened to the songs with a complete 2.1 top quality sound system! we wanted to plug in the HTPC and play it on the (very! expensive) 6.1 surround but it was late so we'd do it another day - and things sound so much different! I'll put in the three things that bother me most, I guess:

Riku - Ilwrath - I now see what you mean by the distorted-electronic sample in the midst of the song - it doesn't sound as painful as it did on my stereo. still, I do believe it would sound better without it, or yet if it were a bit less noisy (while keeping quality). All in all, you've done an excellent job with this one!

Espen/TA - Kzer-Za - still with the 'kssshht' sample - again, it sounds better there, of course, yet even my friend, who never heard of Star Control (!! hehe) agreed that this sample might not be the best choice after all. Perhaps instead of replacing it, try just removing it and seeing how it does?
P.S., I notice there are.. things.. whispering in the background at some points of the song? cool ;)

Riku - Kohr-Ah - unlike the other songs, the synth, the flanger and echo effects sound worse with the subwoofer.. it might be only the sound configuration at that time, but now that I hear the track again, I don't think the synth and flanger mix very well. did you try a chorus sample instead? I have to say that as good as this one is, I think I've grown to like the bonus version of it better! perhaps it's the flanger after all.

otherwise, he really liked the VUX song and a few others which I couldn't tell, as it was pretty late. I hope to hear it sometimes on the 6.1 system - even if you didn't design the files to support surround, I still think it'd sound better than through a stereo system.

keep up the excellent work!

Really? I suppose that, with comments like:

















I could see how someone could classify this as an attack... ::)

I may have been somewhat harsh when dealing with some of the less enjoyable compositions, but I always gave credit where I felt it was due.



Where did this nonsense come from? Did I ever compare my compositional skills (re: less than infant level, at best) to those of the Precursors? Did I interject my musical skill at all? Ever?

People do have the right to offer a critique, even if they are not an expert in the field. You don't have to be an expert in making videogames to have an opinion of one. And you don't have to be an accomplished composer to have an opinion of a composer.



As the post indicates, that's the formula for the best version of the Yehat remix. Which is because I consider the Yehat music, as is, to be perfect (for what it is. It isn't the perfect piece of music, but it is as good as it is going to get) and not in need of improvement, except for technical issues like sample quality.

And I would prefer a sample swap to them doing something like adding a bagpipe (to match the Yehat's psuedo-Scottish origins) that ruins the piece. It is better to have a minor change that is an unquestioned improvement than a major change that could corrupt a wonderful piece of music.

Ah, there, you see? now THAT'S good criticism. or, pre-critique at most. Here you're thinking a bit.. See, in your posts, aside from "punishing composers severly", most of your critique was actually telling the composers how to remake the songs, the way YOU want them. Only problem is, it's always the same way - not doing a thing with the old versions.

Unlike the rest of the visitors here who replied either by giving a few heads-up on any specific thing they didn't like in the song, and sometimes trying to make suggestions (as much as we, the untalented, can) or by a simple warm compliment, you decided to advertise your opinion in a most impolite and unfriendly manner. If you have more critique, I suggest you at least try and think of a better alternative than sample-switching with the original.

I'm sure you'd like to tell us your true mind, but you don't have to color it the way you have, and certainly you cannot tell the composers what to do - if they decide to make the whole music anew, that's their decision to make, and if you don't like it - as said before - you can go on and play with the 3DO pack.

Some random replies to posts above this:

I would like to ask people here to stop using the "oh yeah? Well, perhaps you can make better music then?" argument. It's simply the oldest and poorest argument in the book when it comes to art. People have the right to criticize, and they have the right to be harsh, even if they do not possess the artistic skills required to create the same art themselves. If I go to the cinema and see a movie I don't like, that doesn't mean I can't criticize that movie unless I can make something better. No, Smaug is entirely within his right to come to this board and criticize, and as I said, it's refreshing. He did not make a good impression by posting a trollish post though, but he stopped doing that from his second post and onwards, so he's okay with me.

Smaug, you mention trying to simply replace the original instruments with better versions of themselves. We've tried this for a few songs, and it was a disaster of epic proportions. Quite honestly, I consider at least 1/3 of the original Star Control 2 music to be utter crap, and this remixing project reinforced that idea since I got to play with the details of many of these songs. The poor sound quality of the originals helps camouflage their lack of harmony, planning, and even simple scales. For example, looking at Zoq-Fot-Pik, which is a song I'm currently remixing, you'll notice that it's weird and crazy, and fits the race somewhat well. Replace the instruments with similar, high-quality versions, and you'll be jumping for the stop-button. Trust me. The reason I changed the Arilou as much as I did was because it also had this syndrome. The original was crap, pure and simple. Of course, this is also about opinion, but I can at least back mine up with knowledge about musical structure and harmony.

On the other hand, some of the originals were so good that their remixes required only minor changes, like the Thraddash. We kept almost everything as it was, and added stuff on top of it, because Riku's original showed plenty of musical skill. There was harmony, and there was skillful musical structure. We could also say this about the Ur-Quan Kzer-Za, but sadly, we didn't have good enough sample material to recreate it as an orchestral piece. We tried, but it wasn't good enough. Hence the version you have today.

Censored: I tried removing the "ksshht" sample from the Ur-Quan yesterday, and the result was disturbingly empty. That sample is vital to the balance of the music.

"Yes, I did, but a bit after I wrote that section. I considered revising it, but I decided to let the nature of it stand. Original composers can go back over their own works and destroy them; see George Lucas."

This sentence strikes me as not only weird, but outright disturbing. Are you really serious? This is a message board post, not a movie that redefined cinema in the 70's!

Chrispy: VOiD and I actually seriously considered if we had the right kinds of contacts to create an orchestral version of Ur-Quan with a real symphony orchestra, but we abandoned the idea after a while. We do not have the contacts to have it done for free, so it would have cost us a good deal of money. It would have been totally amazing though. :)

Megagun: we've made a conscious effort to make the remixes start of much faster than ordinary music with a few exceptions. The remixes that need fast starts should already have them.

PS: My apologies to Dan Nicholson for me being ever critical of his original Star Control 2 themes. ;)

Ooh! Shiny! Remix pack 3 is here! :D Let's see what we have:

• Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah - Cleansing Required: Spooky and quite interesting. Close enough to the original to remain recognisably Kohr-Ah, but lots of new stuff.
  
• Ilwrath - All Evil: Evil spiders coming to get you! Very dramatic, scary and funky all at once. Good show, Riku.
  
• Mycon - Rebirth: Why does this make me think of hyperactive mushrooms with personality disorders? ;) Different, yet still the same tune. Riku shows that the same tune can sound completely different. I liked the original and I like this, but for different reasons.
  
• Thraddash - Culture 19: Awesome! Every single aspect of this is so right... I can't review this, I just want to listen to it. Medieval Future just went from very cool to extremely cool.
  
• Umgah - Genetic Modification: 100% happy blobby weirdness. This Human Earthling is having much fun with this tune!
  
• Ur-Quan Kzer-Za - Now And Forever: A refreshingly different take on the Ur-Quan theme. I'm still not sure about that squelchy snare drum replacement and the singing, but the whole thing seems to fit together very well and it actually suits the Ur-Quan just as well as the more traditional imperial style.
  
• VUX - Ultra-gross: Why do I get the feeling this guy took one look at me and decided he wanted me dead? Very nice.
  
• Orbit IV - Cold Tectonics: Creepy in a empty and desolate sort of way. Good ambient stuff.
  
• Orbit V - Extraterrestrial Lifeforms: Nice and scary. Keeps you looking over your shoulder for nasty monsters out to eat you.
  

And the bonus stuff:

• Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah - The Eternal Doctrine: I think Riku's remix is just a little bit better than this one. This one is maybe just a little bit too much on the ambient side. Quite good, though.
  
• Ur-Quan (Erol Otus): Interesting idea, but I don't think the organ idea works too well.
  
• VUX - Acid in the Eye: Overextended VUX acid mix. This one takes ages to build up, but it's great for background listening. Espen's and Tore's mix fits into the game better, though.
  
• Kohr-Ah Battle: Another good and different battle tune.
  
• Mortal Melee! Tekkno: A bit over the top, this one. Very entertaining, though.
  

I'd like to thank the remixing team for another quality remix pack. It was well worth waiting for.

I have basic orchestral version of the yehat and ur-quan themes on my comp. I kinda gave up knowing that I would never get a good orchestra to play them, me being a 15 year old kid and all.
My city youth orchestra (the one I play in and can therefor minipulate a little bit) isnt all that good.
Maybe someday we can have recorded orchestral versions to go along the techno remixs.

As for smaug it is all painfully clear to me. He is looking for completely different music then what you are making. The original melodies are fun and he wants nothing more then melody. I guess its just a difference in taste.
To Smaug: If you truely are looking for what you say your looking for, I dont think anyone can make any improvement on the originals.

As for that little wisp sound in the kzer-za theme, it doesnt really blend. Its not really supposed to though. When it sounds it stops the bass and the song sounds like its pausing everytime it sounds and then dives back into bass. I think its just a matter of getting used to it. There is a section of the song without it at 1:55 in if anyone wants to compair.


Its sounds even worst with 2 subwoofers. Luckily I like it that way. :P

I personally welcome Smaug's input. I agree with a lot of what he's saying to a lesser extent. The somewhat hostile critique makes for a good counterbalance to all the brown-nosing most other people give out.

Hmm, I hadn't considered that the low quality of the samples might disguise other lingering problems in the piece itself. Well, my other suggestions for the Yehat music stand ;)

Certainly, a lot of the SC2 music is a "melodic" sequence of various unusual sounds. I suppose it's kinda like remaking a 3D game from a low-powered machine to a high-powered one). You could just take the textures and scale them up, and adding some detail to them, but you will quickly find that you should consider redrawing them from scratch, as well as all the models.



There are a lot of Star Wars fans who have come to see the Star Wars Special Edition set as a bastardization of the originals. I was attempting to contrast Riku's remixes of his own original music with this.



Are good orchestral samples really so hard to come by? With all the remixing that goes on over the Internet these days, I assumed there'd be some 300MB repository somewhere of exceptional orchestral samples.

Trust me, they are HARD to come by. If anyone here knows of a good set of cheap orchestral samples that can be used for more aggressive, cinematic orchestral music, then send me a mail or private message, PLEASE! The only decent sets of orchestral instruments I know of are 30+ GB in size, and cost a fortune.

Smaug:

What you want out of this project seems to be dramatically different from what others want out of the project. In fact, what I get from your review is that you don't approve of this project *at all* and you don't like the concept of remixing songs *at all*. You'd prefer remastering songs to truly and imaginatively remixing them, changing the "spirit" of the song you know and love.

Well... it puts you kind of in the position of someone reviewing horror movies who just doesn't like horror movies, or reviewing a French restaurant who just hates French cuisine. We know that the majority of what you say is going to be black bile, except in the rare cases where a remix isn't very highly remixed (except in the few good romantic, non-scary scenes in the movie; except for those generic entrees the restaurant has that don't taste very "French").

So there's no reason for us to hear it, because the fact that a remix project was created and everyone was behind it *means* that most of us strongly disagree with your basic presuppositions here. Remastering the .MODs with different instruments is a project entirely different in scope from this one; this project exists because people, unlike you, don't see songs, even really really great songs, as holy objects that must not be defiled by imitation. If an interesting theme or structure or melody has musical depth to it, it has the potential to be explored and played with in a lot of different contexts. Many great artists agree, and *do* spend a lot of time rethinking songs into new genres (moving from orchestral to techno, from ballad to dance), using the same theme in a creative way, and so on.

The most annoying thing about fandom for those of us who are merely semi-fans is the amazingly powerful hold nostalgia has on people, so that they're unwilling to admit that a version different from the one they know and love has the right to exist, much less sully their own hard drives. It's not like the original .MODs or 3DO tracks are going to be wiped from existence and replaced with the "official" remixes. Go on playing the game and listening to your same old tracks, and let those of us who don't grovel in abject worship of sacred music have our fun. It's worth offering constructive criticism for things that you think are worthy goals that can be worked toward, but if there's a project whose goals you utterly despise, announce your displeasure once and then just walk away. There's nothing more annoying than people who do things like endlessly nitpick over how each divergence from the novels in the Lord of the Rings movies *proves* Peter Jackson should've never ever been allowed to make a movie, or how each and every scene in Star Wars: Attack of the Clones *proves* the prequels should've never ever been made, and so on.

For what it's worth, I do have a soft spot for a lot of the 3DO tracks (my first exposure to the music) and I don't particularly care for some of the reworkings. I like 3DO Quasispace and the original Arilou theme (both of which are completely absent in the official remixes) and I, too, am leery about the more experimental remixes, like the Mycon and Spathi.

But I'm glad they're out there, because they provide a new option for others who want to hear something fresh, and there are some remixes (Ur-Quan, Ilwrath, Melnorme, Commander) that instantly replaced the older tracks in my affection when I heard them. I may not agree with all of the changes that were made, but I would never go as far as you did in claiming that changing an original song is a terrible sacrilege. I'd rather that for each track from this game (and for each of the tracks that contain tunes I particularly like) there were a thousand mashed-up, ripped-up, spliced-up and screwed-up remixes, with 990 of them being utter crap and maybe 10 stumbling onto sheer brilliance -- even if for all of us it'd be a different 10 for each.

I wouldnt say that Smaug stoped us from having fun playing star control with the new music...

Smaug - I'm a musician, trust me when I say that high quality samples that don't cost a tentacle or a leg are very hard to come by...

to the remix crew. good job :)


whee.  


Duane P.
"Beyond the Shattered Mirror"
http://www.soundclick.com/pro/?BandID=26402

I'm pretty much concur with Smaug about the remixes. I think all those times I playe the game with the original .mods etched the tunes into my mind, and nothing less than a remake of those isn't enough.

Still there's a lot of good remixes in those 3 packs that I really like ( See Smaugs first long post to find out what )

If you guys plan to remix the Yehat tune, please do a remake aswell.

PS. Mark Vera, where's the full Hyperspace remake (?) of which you so kindly let us hear a quick teaser ( Hyperthing.mp3 1.22min ) in February? Can't wait it  :)

Hmm, check your PM box...

btw, I seem to have posted my impressions of the new remix pack in the PNF comments thread instead of here... :-/ you can check them out over there, but I just have to state my agreement with an earlier post here - the Thraddash remix does indeed surpass the one I did, by leaps and bounds even. Good work! ;D

- VR, aka Ringwraith

I will probably remake the Yehat more or less 80s style. So for my part the next pack will be "80s pack". Hyperspace, Syreen .. both in 80s style (like the originals). Hyperspace isn't ready yet.. I haven't had time for it. But it's pretty much okay as it is now. I just want make few things for it (deviation from original) and fix the mixing a bit.

Yea I hate the remix team... They forgot to put the Yehat remix in the last three packages  :-/

P.S

Are you doing a remix pack for melee and menu stuff? (Meaning, everything else from the smallest explosion :) )

It was ment to be in pack 3, but we forgot that change when we looked in older song lists - and the remix isn't ready so it would have delayed pack 3 even more.



I started the project myself (I have list and description of every single soundfx file in UQM), but haven't got much time for it. I'll resume on it some point. I suppose it'd be better to remix, and not try to remake the original effects; except for the obivious like pkunk insults, rebirth, ur-quan blaster. Rebirth I already made, insults need just some cleaning up and blaster is star trek sound and I have that somewhere already in higher quality.

That is what I hoped for. Thank you.  :)

Wow, I see I missed the fireworks.  ;)

Anyhoo, I like the songs and thought they added a lot to the atmosphere of the game. The yehat music is my favorite... so do it justice.  :P

You were bitching like "awww the remix pack isn't perfect it sucks you guys have no music talent you should be punished". The "do it yourself better" is just metaphor, you can say what you like and what you dont without bitching or (trying) to insult the makers even if the remix packs were a 1$ make.

and it's SLYLENDRO dont feel like explaining all over again but the incorrect spelling is intended.

Hmm, another remix pack, which I think was clearly worse than the earlier ones, but that's just my opinion.

Where should I start? Smaug already made some good points. First of all, I want to critisice about the Kohr-Ah, Ilwrath and Umgah songs. Kohr-Ah theme has too fast a drum beat and the bass doesn't seem to fit so well. Not that bad, not so good, three stars out of five.

Ilwrath theme is worse than the earlier remix, this one has way too much distortion. It gets so loud in one point you can't hear anything else. If you really want to use distortion, I'd suggest to use something else than a saw wave.

Umgah theme ... This one is the least I like. No, wait, I don't even like this one a bit, I hate this one. Sorry, Jouni, but this one made my ears bleed. The original had a clear beat, it didn't clip and do stuff like that, it just had weird samples and other sounds. Let's say I haven't ever played SC2 earlier in my life, and I'd hear this the first time of my life, and someone tells me this is the music of an alien race. My impression would be a 24/7 high weed growers with whom you can't converse intelligently. Umgah are pranksters who master biologics, they are not some junkies!

When I heard the Mycon theme, the first thing that popped into my mind was Farscape's theme, maybe because of the choir. That's a bonus, but the minus is the drum beat. Knowing the Mycon the drum beat should be quite simple, but the result is good, better than the original at least.

Ur-Quan theme was a good one. The "wannabe-snare" sample is disturbing and the main strings could be louder and have more ... echo? Otherwise this one would get a A++ from me.

The other two one's (Thraddash and VUX) were near perfect, the distortion was used deliberately. Thraddash was definately the best one of this pack, the drums (or the bongos and sorts) were a magnificant addition!

Am I blind or is the Yehat remix downloadable?

you're not just blind, you seem to be hallucinating too! what are you on, man? GIVE ME SOME!  ;D

Hi y'all! Just thought I'd throw my hat in the ring here.

First; it's terribly flattering to see all this high praise of the remixes we've done, and in some cases, surprising. We've toiled and toiled with the Ur-Quan remix for months, discarding several attempts along the way, and hit some flak for the way we did it (particularily the "kssht" sample, as you've all pointed out). In contrast, the Thraddash remix was more or less completed in one night, and it's being hailed as one of the best remixes. Go figure. ;)

Anyway, I was knee-deep in the mud in Roskilde at the time this pack was released, otherwise I would have commented on Smaug's post and the whole debacle that ensued earlier. Seeing as the whole thing seems more or less resolved now, let me simply remind you all of the words on the Precursors' website:

"Precursors' mission is to bring, to all Star Control 2 fans, wonderful Star Control 2 inspired music - not just re-makes of the old songs, but also totally different versions and brand new songs."

In essence - what we are NOT doing, are remasters.

With that in mind, it's time to go back to work on pack 4. :D

Well, I don't really like this pack that much. Umgah is better than the original, but merely good - not great. VUX is easily my favorite of the remixes. Thraddash is decent, but it feels a little more subtle/ominous and less in-your-face than the original. I'm not sure about the ur-quan. Ilwrath is excellent, Riku really cleaned up the old remix. The rest are pretty bad IMO. Maybe I'll post a full review of all the remix packs later.

EDIT: I must say, the ur-quan music in the bonus pack rocks. Much better than the other remix.

My opinion: I thought all the new songs are rather short... I was rather dissapointed my first listen through! The only one's that were pleasing to the ear are the VUX, Mycon, and Thraddash. Thraddash was my favorite, but I wish it was even MORE heavy metal sounding.

Of course, I must say that I do not remember much of how the originals sounded... Let me try to download the mods.

Also must say, the Remixes didn't seem evil enough for me... These Ur-Quan, the green and the black, are enslaving alien races or killing them! You (the player) are the ONLY hope at stopping these bizarre alien creatures from destroying the galaxy, specifically the Earth will be obliterated! These are mal-aligned creatures with no good purposes, and are out to get EVERYONE!! No one is safe from their wrath!! Doesn't that justify an incredibly EVVVVVVvvviiiLLLLLLLLL soundtrack to go with their motives?

And about the length issue: When I used to play the game, I would sit there talking with the aliens for a good 10 minutes or more real time. So it got a little monotonous to hear the music looping 5 or more times during the conversation...

Almost all the new remixes are longer than the originals. By a good margin too, I might add. Some of the originals were barely 1 1/2 minutes long!

You all should stop letting your nostalgia get the better of you. It's funny how much time can cloud memories. :)

You think so? Being forced to kill your friends and then in order to free yourself having a device implanted in your brain which would cause a continuous near-lethal pain? Their only goal is to remove any chance of that happening ever again. They may have gone a bit over the top, but they're not doing what they do for their own amusement.
So what I'd expect to hear in a theme is not evil, but

• determination
  
• relentlessness
  
• torment
  Translated to music, I'd expect a slow but hard and regular beat to show an unstoppable progress, with some minor chords (but not too much; it isn't unhappiness that defines them).
  The difference between the Kohr-Ah and the Kzer-Za would be that the Kohr-Ah should evoke more fear and the Kzer-Za should show some more compassion.
  
  

Actually, that's something I noticed about a few of the songs too. It isn't so much that they are short, but they just kind of end.

When a normal piece of music ends, you have a pretty good idea that it was wrapping up. But, when, say, the VUX remix ends, it almost sounds like somebody tore out the last few pages of sheet music. And, since it doesn't loop properly, the sudden end is kind of jarring. It makes the piece sound short even though it isn't.



It is kind of a matter of perspective, but, regardless of how they justify their actions, they have become evil. A race of soul-less conqueres that have little respect for other lifeforms.

The Kzer-Za's idea of compassion is very different from that of most other species. Allowing a race to survive as a battle thrall or fallow species is their idea of compassion. To them, this is merely the "respectful" method of ensuring the survival of the Ur-Quan species. To everyone that they have subjugated, this is evil.

In any case, I think the most important thing that the Kzer-Za's music needs to convey is that sense of "Oh Crap!" that you get when you first get to Earth and encounter the probe. The Kzer-Za are the first species that the captain encounters, and that encounter needs to make the player fear. The music needs to pull this off.

As to the specifics of Kzer-Za music, remember that the Kzer-Za are neither subtle nor dubious. They are exactly what they say that they are. When you meet a Kzer-Za, you know that you have just encountered one of the most powerful and relentless beings in the galaxy, and you'd better be packing some huge weaponry if you expect to get out alive.

Regarding the music length:

For each song the precursers have developed the tune, or they're version of the tune so that it can be longer without simply looping. Regarding the VUX tune, next time you listen to it listen to the drums. They develope and change through-out song. Youll hear some ride chimes get added.

About the ending, well thats wierd, cus I can sense it rapping up, and I like the ending. Try listening to it more so that you understand it, it will help you appreciate it more.


Regarding the Urquan and evilness:

Yes the Urquan are evil, and the song portrays this. But they have a lot more depth to them then just evilness. As meep-eep explained very nicely they dont enjoy enslaving races. Its a 'this hurts me more than it hurts you' type thing. The precursers remix has more depth than the original which was simple 2 string synths in counterpoint.

The Urquan remix is harder to like than the VUX one, but if you listen to it enough you'll understand it.

Whether the Ur-Quan are evil or not depends on your definition of evil.
Some possibilities

• "evil is whatever goes against the will of your deity". If this is your definition, then it is rather useless for those who do not believe in any deity.
  
• "evil is enjoying other peoples misery"
  
• "evil is not caring about others, while you know what you are doing." I included the second half of this definition so that vegetables aren't evil. According to this definition, you could say that evilness means selfishness. But if killing humans to ensure your own survival is evil, doesn't that make humans evil too? Killing animals and plants for food, and killing bacteria and virusses that make or may make us sick? Maybe you don't consider them that important, like the Ur-Quan don't think humans are that important. Maybe you want to claim that a being must be self-aware to matter.
  
• "evil is not caring about other self-aware beings, while you know what you're doing". It's hard to prove that anything isn't self-aware, but lets assume that if it's able to express its desire to live, it's self-aware. Does this definition make the Ur-Quan evil? The Kohr-Ah possibly, but the Kzer-Za do seem to care about humans. They just care more about themselves.
  
• "evil is caring less about other self-aware beings than yourself, while you know what you're doing". Doesn't that make almost all humans evil?
  
  So what definition do you use?
  

Evil is determined by your actions. It doesnt matter if you enjoy it, the fact that you are enslaving races makes you evil.

Ok, so you're saying something like

• "someone is evil if he has done something that intentionally and seriously harms another self-aware being"
  That would imply that if you're only planning on killing the entire world population, but failed to successfully execute the plan, you're not evil. And also, once you have done something evil, you're evil forever.
  Is that really what you meant?
  

Is it just me, or does a philosphical discussion on the nature of evil not really belong on this thread?  ;)

Re the Kzer-Za music, however, we wanted to reflect the fact that they are not simply evil: they are doing what they feel must be done. So we tried to convey a feeling of determination and, yes, sadness.

Also, the songs in pack 3 ARE rather short, but that's mainly because there was less original material to work with. The original Kzer-Za theme, for instance, clocks in at a meager 33 seconds. (I know some will think this a poor excuse from someone who helped prolong the Starbase music from 1:01 to 5:51, but there you go.)

I was really excited about discussion on whether or not Kzer-Za was evil. Here's my thought about the subject.

First, a blurb about evilness : I consider it quite a safe assumption that evil is something that one does to harm other self-aware creatures with little or no benefit to oneself except satisfaction from said actions. So killing something intelligent in self defense is OK, but killings said intelligent creatures for 'fun' is 'evil'.

Now, let's evaluate Kzer-Za. They're enslaving whole known universe; no-one disagreeing here? The question now is WHY, that is what dictates whether or not their behavior is evil. What Kzer-Za thinks about the whole process is the key in defining them.

Now, does Kzer-Za want to harm other intelligent beings for the kicks of it? Definite no : in SC2, they almost beg the captain to surrender so no more casualties to _either_ side would be taken; they spend resources to safely "enslave" species to their homeworlds, instead of doing something Kohr-Ah:is; they PROTECT the universe from Kohr-Ah. The idea about the ideal state of universe might be faulty, but imaginate yourself going through all that hell Kzer-Za did and you'll have a rather fresh idea about Kzer-Za ideals.

From my point of view, Kzer-Za are one of the heroes, without them, cpt Zelnick would noting else than shreds in space after an Kohr-Ah fleet.

Thank you for reading! -Ano

I forgot to mention about the music, sorry!

Kzer-Za theme sounds good, I like it! But, it isn't what I imagine Kzer-Za to be, I'm afraid. The original Kzer-Za theme sounds like "We are Kzer-Za, you have disobeyed us, now you shall die"; and "we will dominate you no matter what, you shall be enslaved or eliminated, but you will not prevail.".

The released theme sounds like "We are Kzer-Za, we will fight you untill the end and we will not give up.". See the difference?

The Kzer-Za shouldn't sound desperate, they're going all out destroying all hinderance to their efforts and their doctrinal war. They're the goddamn bloody masters of the whole goddamn galaxy(excepting parts governed by Kohr-Ah). That's why I imagine their theme to be very powefull. They have hope, yet they have no choise, as the only way through is power.

-Ano

(edited a few typos)

I suppose my definition of evil does need some tweaking but I still think the Kzer-za are evil, and I think that the remix made for them portrays evil very well.

How on earth can a race that protects all known sentience from utter eradication with all its known means be evil?

Alright, I know why people think otherwise, and here's why:
What Kzer-Za takes is not our resources nor intellectual property, but our freedom OR our will to govern ourselves. Either we stay on our planet or fight alongside our masters.

Now, lets focus on the 'Slaveshield' part. So humanity lost its chance to get to stars. 0.01% of human population couldn't get above strathosphere. Bohoo. The sky is red but we are goddamn alive. Is your (opposer of the Way of Now and Forever) life so cheap that the color of sky or the minimal chance of getting to space is what dictates whether or not you want to be alive?

Now, another point of view of the subject: let's say that Kzer-Za's strategy was fundamentally the only way of preventing Kohr-Ah's utter victory(which it very well might've been). Would Kzer-Za be 'differently evil' than what it is now? Would Chrispy think "we lived and we were free!" seconds before Kohr-Ah ensued their athmospheric bombardment?

Even if there were no Kohr-Ah, Kzer-Za acted rather benevolently, even after all they had gone through they protected races even from themselves (Thraddash), united everyone under one banner(Ur-Quan hierarchy) and/or prevented them from causing any trouble to anyone else (slave shields).

Liberation is over-rated, Kzer-Za know what they're doing.

-Ano

Let's keep this thread for the remix discussion. I've created a new one for the purpose of discussing evil.

Regarding the music, ignoring the philosophical discussion of what defines "evil":

Regardless of whether the Ur-Quan music should be "evil"-sounding or not, I disagree with the poster who said the Ur-Quan should not sound desperate or passionate, merely cold and unstoppable.

The Ur-Quan aren't a cold, relentless force of nature. They may appear to the player as such at the very beginning, but throughout the game one should be getting hints as to how they aren't.

They're deeply passionate, tragic antiheroes. They do, in the end, become desperate -- they're very aware that the Kohr-Ah are quite probably stronger than they are, and that the slaves they've taken under their wing have everything to lose if they don't win the Doctrinal Conflict. Deep down they're deeply, heartbreakingly concerned about the fate of the lesser races. Their imperious tone changes almost to pleading as they try to get you to see the folly in your dangerous rebellion. They feel an enormous burden of responsibility for all sentient life, and that shows through in every action they take.

I think the new theme fits perfectly. It doesn't lack for any power; the slow, regular beat is if anything better than the original .MOD at conveying inexorable strength (the .MOD's blaring brass, to a modern gamer's ear, sound kind of schmaltzy, in my opinion). The new track says the Ur-Quan will win no matter what they have to do -- they are *confident*, completely confident, that they will win no matter what they have to do -- yet there is deep regret, longing, even grief at the horrors they've witnessed and inflicted in doing so. It fits perfectly the image of the honor-bound, steely-eyed warrior, who lost everything he loved to war and now lives only to do his duty.It encapsulates all the ambivalence, all the bloodstained glories, all the power and regret of the word "Empire". The grim father who *will* save his foolish, ungrateful children from themselves, even if he has to sacrifice many lives doing so.

In my mind the Ur-Quan theme is a great opposite number to the Starbase Commander remix from the first pack, "Corridor Nine", which was a great overall theme for the wayward children of the Alliance -- a groping, struggling theme asserting the wayward children's ignorant, desperate, suicidal yet undying fight for freedom; I picture it locked in bitter argument against "Now and Forever", the theme of the admonishing, unyielding Ur-Quan masters.

Sorry to gush so much about this piece of music, but anyway, that's my two cents.

Interestingly enough, I disagree. I suppose the Kzer-Za theme should have more compassion in it, which it probably does, but Kohr-Ah music should not be directly threatening or scary. Or rather the scary thing about it is that it's not threatening or scary. Just utterly calm, purposeful, clean and pure and smooth as a scalpel.

This is why I strongly agree with the way the original Kohr-Ah music was done and prefer Jouni Airaksinen's composition "Eternal Doctrine" to the Kohr-Ah remix that made it into the official pack. Kohr-Ah are, unlike the half-insane Kzer-Za, totally insane. They don't see any need to bluster or threaten, any need to reason or persuade. Kzer-Za have an imperious, threatening theme because they need to command and to threaten, because they still believe other life forms are worth talking to. Kohr-Ah simply kill without a thought or a word.

I picture Kohr-Ah as a lot *less* emotionally and psychologically conflicted than Kzer-Za, because they don't need to interact with those they fight or consider their needs. They don't think of them as real people; they feel no guilt or remorse, only a calm satisfaction at a job well done. When I hear Jouni's excellent Kohr-Ah theme, I picture mushroom clouds blossoming and scouring planets of life in slow motion, shrouded in the silence of space. The Kohr-Ah see what they do as art, as a thing of beauty; they see resistance as a difficult but intriguing problem to solve. The menace should come from that -- that utter mad calmness, the same calm face as that of Hannibal Lecter or another serial killer who sees people as things.

I did not mean scary in a horror movie way. The Kohr-Ah are Death, and they're coming for you. It's just their job. And it's a job they're proud of, judging by their trophy bone-pit. That's got to be pretty scary if you're standing before them. Especially their calm certainty that you will die.


As long as they've got a talking pet with them. :)


They're not immune to the emotions of their victims though. If you speak the correct words, they will feel compelled to explain their motives before killing you.

The Kzer-Za are not antiheroes. At one point in their past, they could have helped resurrect a Sentient Milieu; they chose the Path of Now and Forever instead. And they have been following that path ever sense.

More importantly, they found the Sa-Matra. With it, they were able to subjugate the Kohr-Ah fleet. However, instead of destroying them, or forcing them to abide by the Path of Now and Forever, they let them go. They let the Kohr-Ah go to perpetrate their Eternal Doctrin upon half the galaxy.

If the Kzer-Za really wanted the Kohr-Ah stopped, they would have stopped them themselves.



How desperate can they possibly be? If they really wanted to win the war, they could have just deployed the Sa-Matra. Screw the "rules"; if they wanted to win, if they truly cared about other species, then they would have done so.

Well, they're not *heroes*, in the human sense, but that doesn't make them villains in the human sense either. They're antiheroes, figures who take the role of hero in their own story despite their lack of conformity to normal conventions of a hero.

The Kzer-Za do want the Kohr-Ah stopped, but they don't think the way you or I do. They're crippled by the Ur-Quan's deepest cultural flaw, their inability to empathize with other races or see non-Ur-Quan as fully "human". Deep down they don't feel they have the moral right to slaughter or enslave fellow Ur-Quan. Pure force is the rule among non-Ur-Quan, but they *have* to respect the rights of their fellow Ur-Quan. It's the same logic among humans that makes all but the most psychotically pro-animal-rights human respect the right of other humans to use animals as they wish, and allow other humans to torture and slaughter animals rather than raise their hand against their fellow humans in force. As much as we love our inferiors, it doesn't give us the right to infringe on the rights of our equals.[/quote]



You're thinking like a human. The Kzer-Za care a lot about their slave races, but they do *not* think of them as equals. They may disagree with, resent and hate the Kohr-Ah, but the Kohr-Ah *are* their equals. It's built into their psychology, remember? Deep xenophobia that only shuts off for mating behaviors, that's only allowed to make exceptions for members of the same species.

Sure, it's a cultural presupposition we would like to think we lack, but it's still there, and just because the Kzer-Za are deeply bound by it doesn't mean that they care about their slaves as much as their nature and their culture will allow. Humans have always exhibited similar behavior -- there were plenty of Europeans who opposed slavery of Africans, but for most of history they were unwilling to go to war against their fellow Europeans to stop slavery outside their own borders, preferring to take legal and diplomatic action (that probably translates to the Doctrinal Conflict of the SC2 universe); the American Civil War was a rare exception. And the Ur-Quan have much deeper instinctive and cultural reasons to be xenophobic than humans ever did.

You've got a new thread (http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1090717218 ) where you can discuss whether the Ur-Quan are evil or not. Please keep this discussion out of this thread, which is about Remix Pack 3.

Thank you.

Random question. I know Jouni used Orion Platinum, but you other guys didn't share what software you used. What did you use?

Random Answer: Aristotle, around year 350 BCE.

On a more serious note, however, both me and TiLT use Propellerheads Reason 2.5, (to the best of my knowledge, Riku does as well). For recording of live sounds (bass, guitar), we use Sound Forge.

Awsome, thanks a bundle.

Let me also remind y'all that you can add comments to the tracks that you intensely like/dislike on the Precursors' website  (www.medievalfuture.com/precursors). Any feedback is welcome! :)

Hope nobody is offended by this. :)

General opinion: most of the new music is kind of "chill out", relaxing, electronic music. While it's certainly of very good quality, I think that sometimes it can lack some intensity or passion, and it may not be the best for the game. Some tracks, like the new Hyperspace one, is great to listen to when doing something else or just needing to relax, but I think it's greatly misplaced in the game.

Also, and related to the uniformity of genre, I think some of the tunes really beg for a different genre, less electronic. The Thraddash is an exception, but I don't think it goes far enough.

Now, a few comments - not about all of the songs, since I don't have them here - I'm writing this from work.

Hyperspace: as I said, great music, but *not* for SC2, and especially not for hyperspace. Riku's original version gave a sense of adventure, exploration, "let's see what's out there"; the new one doesn't, at all.

Ur-Quan: wonderful! Grows a lot on you. But I still don't like the "knife" sound, like most people here. Normal, non-electronic drums (like an orchestra or a metal band) would be great, IMHO.

Kohr-Ah: very, very good. To those who didn't like it: have you listened to a long conversation with a Kohr-Ah with the new music? Like when you tell them "Hold! What you're doing is wrong!"? Gives exactly the right feeling. Only one problem: the beat. As someone else said in this thread, "you should NEVER be able to dance to the Kohr-Ah music". :)

Thraddash: wonderful, but, as I said before, I wish it was more "metal-like". Heavier guitars, heavier drums.

VUX: same as the Thraddash. Very good guitar, but I wish it was heavier.

Starbase: ooh, a new one! Very, very good, but unfortunately, it's on a screen where no player stays for more than 3 seconds (unless he's intentionally listening to all the music)...

Battle: sorry, the 3DO version sounds better...

Druuge: another great one. Again, wish it was a bit heavier (you can see I like metal :)), more intense, and with a lot more screams... but I also don't much like the drums near the end - looks like you're trying out the music software. :)

Mycon: should, IMHO, sound more "mysterious", and maybe less "relaxing". The .MOD version was better in those respects.


Wish list:

1- more "metallic" versions of the Thraddash, VUX and Druuge tracks
2- the Ur-Quan song with different drums
3- the Kohr-Ah song without the beats.

And for the future... please, please, please do something great with the Yehat song! I always imagine it like an epic metal ballad - powerful, sad, intense. An electronic version would, IMHO, ruin it.

Nobody should be offended by well-argued criticism. :)



The genres employed in the remixing reflects the fact that we are but four remixers: we're limited to the musical styles that we can handle, composition-wise. Also, since the game is set in the far future, a mostly electronic score seems a little fitting. One should also consider the fact that much of the music is made to be background music, played behind the dialogue. The music cannot be too intrusive. Try the music in the game instead of only listening to the pieces by themselves.



This was one of the most difficult remixes we've done (me and TiLT); what you hear is the third version of the track... We're aware of the criticism of... certain elements of the percussion ;), we'll see if we can do something about that after pack 4 comes out.



Notice that another, more calm and menacing remix is available as a bonus track.



I'm aware of this problem in the track. We are considering composing an extended version of it in the future, and one of the things I'd add in, is double-tracked guitars, which would definitely make the track heavier. In my view, the drums are not the problem.



You're quite fond of the ol' metal, aren't you? ;)



Yeah, well, sorry about that. Feel free to look at it as a bonus for the ones who actually bother to listen to it ("Does it ever end? No wait, there's more!!"). Also, I think the background image works as a nice, very low-tech music video... ;)



Mark Vera did this one; I've mentioned sending him guitar samples for the main melody, and he was positive of the idea. After pack 4, though...



Your wishes have been duly noted. We'll see what can be done...



Well, the remix is being done by Mark Vera, and you pretty well know his style from the previous releases... not to worry, though, I'm sure he'll do admirably.

Finally, let me point out that we DO listen to criticism. It's easy for us to get so involved in our own work that we really don't consider the possibility that people may not be entirely happy with everything. And after all, we're not doing these remixes to satisfy our own egos, we're trying to make tracks that are both fitting to the races they represent (and, let's be fair: some of the original music is not quite fitting. Some of it is not even good music) and work well as pieces of music in their own right. And we also have to try not to piss off the die-hard fans of the original music, which, believe me, is not the easiest task. ;D

Hmm. This turned out to be a much longer post than I had planned. Thanks for the comments!

Did you try the alternate Kohr-Ah remix, by Jouni Airaksinen ("Eternal Doctrine")? It wasn't as edgy as the Kohr-Ah mix in the main package, but it kept a lot of what I thought of as the feel of the original and wasn't dancey at all.

Also, did you really think the remixed Mycon is more relaxing than the original Mycon? The original was very lullaby-ish... the soft beeps almost did put me to sleep a couple of times, especially while obsessively listening to the Mycon's endless meaningless monologues looking for clues. (They really are a race suffering from a collective form of full-blown Alzheimer's, and the original music reflects this well.) The new version seems very... well... dramatic. Very flames-shooting-out-of-spouts and simmering-lava and mindless-organic-plague. Nice, but without the contrast I felt in the first one. The Mycon's menace comes from the calm, almost friendly demeanor they have while discussing their plans to kill all non-Mycon life and spread themselves across the universe.

Do listen to the alternate Battle tracks if you haven't. It's the sort of song that can't be remixed enough, like Hyperspace, and the Mortal Melee version is a lot closer to the 3DO in feel.

It's a good thing none of us has absolute control over the remixers, because I think they've struck a good balance here: I think there's almost too much metal and not enough electronica where I want it. The Druuge stretches my tolerance, and while the VUX mix is insanely cool I miss the old beepy .MOD version (and the alternate acid version doesn't have the same punch).

For me '80s-style electronica would provide the sense of strangeness and alienness that made the grandeur of the original Yehat theme so compelling; their story is being told in a language that stirs our passions but that we still don't quite understand. I always thought of their theme as the opposite number of the Ilwrath theme; both themes say things that are very human (proud and tragic, cruel and cunning) but do it in a not-quite-human language. I liked the style behind the Ilwrath remix and think the Yehat should have the same ethos. Doing it with drums and guitars humanizes it too much, would make it too raw, not ethereal enough. At least that's my opinion (and I think Jouni Airaksinen agrees with me, since he's said he's doing Yehat '80s-style like the original).

Thanks for the reply!


I understand that point, and, yes, I agree, it can't be too intrusive. Note that I didn't say that the music, or the music genres, are wrong - I just have some personal wishes about a few. :)


Quite. :) But, no, I don't expect or even want the game to have a metal soundtrack - the only game with one that I can remember, BTW, is Doom. It wouldn't work in UQM, except for a few races like the Thraddash. Hmm, I wonder how a metal version of the Ilwrath music would sound... ::)


I almost wonder if the game shouldn't be slightly altered so that there is more stuff to do at that screen... ;)


Again, thanks for everything, you're doing a great job. :)

I'm writing this from work, so I'm going to comment just on the Ur-Quan theme, which I have listened to a lot and am pretty familiar with; I'll save commentary on the rest until I'm home and can listen to them more.  A disclaimer: I'm going to comment on this piece as if it's not finished and suggest ways to improve it; I realize that this is meant to be an official release and that the track has already passed the 'beta' stage, so take what I say with a grain of salt.  I don't expect you guys to go back and redo it based just on what I say.  :)

There's been some discussion about whether the Ur-Quan's theme should be 'scary' or not - the Ur-Quan, after all, are the slightly more compassionate ones who sorta care about us lil' guys, in a weird, patronizing kind of way.  In that sense, I agree that their music should have some of that compassion/menace ambiguity.  On the other hand, that interpretation of the Ur-Quan only makes sense after you've played the game through - for someone who's currently playing it through, having a noticably compassionate-sounding theme for the Ur-Quan would just be confusing.  When a new player runs into that probe right off the bat, they should hear something to tell them, right off the bat, that THESE are the guys they should be afraid of.  So if you put some compassion into that theme, make sure it's subtle enough that you only notice it after you've played through the game and understand the Ur-Quan better; at first listen, I really think it should sound menacing and imperial.  Better yet, it should sound like it belongs to someone so menacing and imperial and powerful that they're not even really paying attention to you while they talk to you, and that's a good thing, becuase if they were, you'd just be dead instantly.  I'm thinking, Sauron-type menacing.

That said, I think it does sound menacing and imperial, and I like that.  In fact, I think it should sound more menacing and imperial, both by making the main violin line louder and maybe adding some more depth and orchestra-hall-style-reverberation - really make it dominate the piece.  In any other imperial-sounding track, the drums would be leading, but in this one it should be that violin - always there, leading a legion of soldiers as they march to battle and a sure, unavoidable victory.  I would almost compare this track to the Star Wars Imperial March - in that one it was the horns that led, but they led so commandingly that every time you heard that song, you immediately envisioned thousands of armed stormtroopers marching in lock-step, with some AT-ATs behind them and maybe a Star Destroyer just visible in the sky, and it scared the hell out of you.

I don't like the voices.  As a stand-alone song, that chorus in the middle is kinda nice - it's a little chilling, and a chorus usually does a pretty good job of adding that little extra kick to an already commanding piece of music.  But in this case I think it's out of place, and by 'this case', I mean background dialogue music for SC2 in general: I don't like the 'we come in peace' in the Slylandro theme, either (but I'll comment on other tracks later).  I just think it's out of place when there's already spoken dialogue being played on top of the music; as one of the remixers already commented, this is supposed to be playing behind the dialogue, so it shouldn't be too intrusive - I think having human voices in theme music is intrusive when combined with other voices reading dialogue.  Not a lot, but enough for me to wish it wasn't there.

Finally, I'll add my $.02 about the 'knife drum' or whatever we're calling it now.  When I first heard this track I played it over and over because I love it (in fact, my ultimate frisbee team has entered our tournament season and I listen to that track 2 or 3 times on full blast before every game, because it really pumps me up) - and at first, I didn't notice the knife drum.  But once I came here and read people's reaction to it, I listened again and now that I hear it, I don't like it either, but I'll tell you why, and maybe this will be a little more illuminating: I don't accept it as a conscious choice by the composer.  When I listen to old game music (of the MIDI-game-music era, before even the original SC2), my ear has the following internal monologue:

Hmm.. this music is very low-quality.  I think that sound is supposed to be a piano, but since this is an old game and they couldn't really synthesize good-sounding piano music at that point, it sounds like a stopwatch gone mad.  But I know it's supposed to be a piano, so I'm just going to fill in the missing sample depth and quality before I pass it along to the brain.

My ear has the same reaction to that knife sound.  It doesn't sound like a sample that was chosen willingly - it sounds like a sample that was chosen because the composer wanted to use something else, but couldn't.  The problem is, I'm not exactly sure what that something else should be; people have suggested using a real snare drum, and that might work.  People have also suggested dropping it entirely, but I don't think that would work - the section near the end that doesn't have that noise sounds empty.. there definitely needs to be something higher-frequency to alternate with and counterbalance the timpani drumbeat.  Well, I take that back - there needs to be a balance in the track on the whole, but the one section near the end that currently has just the timpani is fine.. it sounds pretty good to drop the balance and then reintroduce it.  Have you tried a slightly higher-tone timpani?  Like, still in the bass realm, but a few steps higher?  I think that might be enough to still maintain balance - the violin line is fairly high, and as long as there was a second drum to balance the low timpani beat-wise, the violin might do a decent job balancing it tone-wise.

More when I get home :)

As he's also doing with the Syreen music.


Our first attempt at remixing the 'Quan theme was actually a full-blown orchestral version, but that one stranded because we simply don't have access to full orchestra instruments of proper quality. The strings we took from that one and into version 3, the final release, are actually string quartet samples. When used standing alone, it sounded somewhat like an intimate, four-piece concert, which simply doesn't sound overwhelming enough. We might post a snippet from the original attempt at some point, which would probably give you a good idea as to why we decided to scrap it. :)


I'm assuming that you're talking about the male solo tenor voice here, and not the full choir that's going wild with chromatic variations in the background. :)

I can understand some people's reservations about us using a solo tenor in the foreground of the piece; it is, after all, a surprising and unusual element in any non-operatic music. What surprises me, though, is the fact that no one has commented on the sudden organ break, when everything else stops. To my mind, the tenor comes in the wake of this sudden dynamic pause (of sorts) in the music, and sounds less intrusive because of that. But my mind is notorious for its mistakes, so I'm not claiming to have the right answer here. ::)


I'll consider that high praise, if you don't mind. :D


Just to correct you here: we were still in the doldrums with Mk.2 of our Ur-Quan Kzer-Za remix, when I came across a set of percussion samples made up entirely of mouth noises! I tried the samples out, and the attempts I made, with TiLT's deft assistance, turned into Mk.3, which is what whas released. The sample was indeed consciously chosen. :)

The main advantage of using such a sample, instead of snare drums, timpanis and whatnot - besides the fact that it does fill out the higher frequencies and, as such, helps balance the overall sound - and, indeed, one of the things that made me want to use it in the first place; it sounds a lot more alien than almost any other kind of percussion you can come up with.


...more?  :o

I've heard other people say, and I definitely agree, that we'd be interested in such a version, should it ever become feasible.  I fully encourage anyone to come forward with suitable samples, just to hear what it would sound like.



I don't want the strings solo, I just want them a little more prominent, and with more abience behind them - reverberation, whatever the technical term is, I'm not sure.  'Overwhelming', in fact, may be exactly the right term - I want them to be more overwhelming.  In fact, the comparison with the SW Imperial March got me to thinking - would horns work here?  A few french horns or tubas might complement the violins and add that nice ambient overpowering undertone I'm looking for without making the violins too exclusively prominent.  But you're right, intimate is on the wrong end of the spectrum.  :)  (by the way, what exactly is an overpowering undertone?  the world may never know)



My objection to the tenor is not because it doesn't belong in non-operatic music; in fact, I think that tenor would sound great in all kinds of non-operatic music, I just don't think it sounds good here, behind spoken dialogue.  Similarly, the organs don't sound at all out of place to me because they are just as overwhelming and imperial sounding as the violin riff - they sound right at home.  Maybe that's part of the problem.. coming out of this organ break which is a great mid-climax to the piece, there's this weird tenor, before we get back into the regular imperial march of things.



I don't mind at all, since it was meant as such.  :P



I didn't mean to say *I*, my conscious mind, didn't accept it, I meant my ear and my unconscious mind didn't accept it.  *I* know you chose that sample because *I* know you weren't limited the way oldschool MIDI composers were.  My objection is that the particular sample you chose causes my ear to react as though it wasn't a willing choice; my ear tries to remap the sample on the fly into what it thinks actually belongs there, becuase it doesn't think that sample belongs there.



I can understand that.  I guess my overall suggestion here is of the lame stage director type (and I know, cuz I've done some stage acting): "I don't know what I don't like about that, but I don't like it.  Try something else, which I won't specify for you, because I don't really know what I want.  But just try something else."  Also, if (in my opinion) you're already sacrificing good sound for alien-ness, what's with that human tenor?  ;)




I know, I know, and I'm sorry.  Out of respect for the sysop's poor hard drive, I'm thinking about gzipping and UUencoding my future posts.  Whaddya guys think?  :P

So, I was in the process of writing up commentary on the other tracks from this pack when I realized that I was being really longwinded again.  I don't want to subject this thread to another super wordy review just for the sake of my own ego, so, do the composers find this kind of commentary useful?  I can give you guys pages of feedback if you want it, but since you're already basically done with these tracks, it might not be very useful to you, and I don't want to be that guy who spouts endless opinions just to .. erm .. read himself type?  Dunno what the analogue is.  I will promise, though, to try to be more concise per track than my Now and Forever comments.  Oy.  I didn't realize that was so monstrously long until I posted it and saw it next to all the other posts.   :-[

The straight answer: Yes, we do find these comments useful. At least I do. One can never get too much feedback, in my opinion, so if you have to stretch out over a plethora of paragraphs to say what you have to say, so be it! Besides, if you have opinions on the remix packs, I can think of few better places to voice those opinions than in this particular thread, on this particular board... ;)

I should note that the last thing I would want to hear would be the strings in the Kzer-Za remix replaced by brass, and I am pretty fond of that wild tenor and the swishy percussion, too.

No, I'm not being contrary for contrariness' sake. But the original Kzer-Za theme was one of my *least* favorites from the original game, because though a powerful melody, the execution was just so... cliched. I felt like I was watching Star Wars, and to me that's *not* a good thing; I've had far enough of John Williams-ish big brassy bombast, with his villainous music that booms and booms and booms *pure evil* into your head and his suspense music that booms and booms *high drama* into your head and his romantic music that lilts and whines *sweet sweet love* into your head. Bah.

A good villain should not be a cookie-cutter melodrama villain, and the Ur-Quan aren't; so why should they have a theme that, however well-conceived, in execution has B-movie bad guy written all over it? The Ur-Quan music is the first race music the player hears; she should hear a well-developed piece that draws her in and makes her interested rather than prompting her to dismiss the Ur-Quan as cheesy sci-fi villains. The Ur-Quan opening speech is already a fairly blunt, vicious threat; I'd like the music accompanying it to have subtlety.

The Kzer-Za remix as it is isn't perfect, but it's very good at sketching a different kind of villain. It by no means is a piece that depicts a struggle between compassion and cruelty; I don't hear any sweetness and light in it. The difference between this and the original is that the original simply blared imperious command, while this has a trace of yearning, of desire. Great villains aren't black hat bad guys who are evil because they're evil; they're great souls corrupted by some burning pathology that twists and mutates them. The Ur-Quan theme shouldn't just be loud and imperious; it should have a sense -- not of compassion and goodness and virtue -- but of something different, honor and nobility and a strength that's compelling at the same time that it's threatening. Giving the main theme room to work around its supporting themes helps add that sense of depth, of villains who are complex, vulnerable people rather than being-evil machines, at least to my ear.

And I do disagree about the tenor voice -- it *adds* alien-ness. An operatic tenor does not sound "human" in the humdrum, everyday sense of the word. Operas communicate grand, unfiltered passions, usually rooted in stories of the (to us) ancient past; to someone used to hearing rock musicians who mumble and rasp into the mic, a well-trained tenor ringing out high notes clear as a bell is as compellingly, seductively alien as a voice can get and still sound voicelike. In most scores we don't associate classical choirs and operatic voices with humanity -- quite the opposite. In Lord of the Rings the hobbits' theme is entirely instrumental, and it's the elves who have a lilting vocal piece -- a human voice that has been trained to be gain a "pure" sound with fully harmonic overtones sounds weird and unusual to our ears, much weirder than any instrument could precise because it's a human voice that's been altered. The classical choir is almost stereotypically used to convey the ethereal, the mystical, the arcane. Especially when the voice is suddenly, unexpectedly belting out unmelodic notes during a break in the main theme -- it sounds like an interruption of music, not like the music itself. The voice isn't singing the song, it's interrupting the song with a brief cry of pure, unanalyzable emotion. It's the farthest thing in the world from corrupting the purity of the music with prosaic human speech -- the exact opposite.

But then I'm in general biased toward treating human voices as just another instrument, unless there are actual lyrics conveying an actual verbal message in the voice. "We come in peace" is borderline, but it's acceptable because the whole point of the sample is to overuse the phrase until it becomes meaningless background noise to illustrate how unintelligible the Probes' intentions are. Similarly this tenor voice is clearly not a human trying to talk to us; it's a really alien-sounding yet compelling (because of its still-human qualities) *Ur-Quan* sound and I wouldn't dream of taking it out.

On the other hand, I would revolt at putting the "Potato Juice" lyrics into the game, ever. (And actually listening to a lyrics version almost ruined the song for me as a background theme. Though it would've helped if they'd been *good* lyrics...)

Okay, enough shameless pretending like I write music and know what I'm talking about. But I do like the piece a lot as it is. While a full-orchestral arrangement would certainly be no bad thing and I'd love to hear it, the version as it is now, with the odd vocals and the electronic percussion and the more... contained sound of the strings, is the version I'm probably going to think of as the "real" version for the near future.

(Don't feel bad, taleden. You're not the only long-winded one.)

Okay, I spent a lot of time saying what I liked about Kzer-Za, so I'll try and spend a shorter amount of time saying what I dislike about Kohr-Ah. (New Year's resolution: spend more time on the positive than the negative if you can.)

I can't really explain it in concrete terms, but here goes: The original Kohr-Ah theme did a very good job of being simple, quiet, and yet oozing with menace. It had very little percussion and a quite simple melody, but the melody with its long, drawn-out notes punctuated by a slow, relentless beat went *perfectly* with the voice actor for the Kohr-Ah. A very alien, cold, hard sound -- so cold and hard an alien that we can't even perceive their emotions, only a soothing, flowing menace, so much loss for so long that they've found a dark kind of contentment and peace within despair, so insane that the madmen now appear completely calm, unconflicted, implacable and unstoppable and confident in their insanity.

Yeah, long on emotional description and short on specifics, but it was soothing and relaxing while at the same time being scary as hell.

Problem: The two remixes don't square this circle very well. You have one that's definitely menacing and scary as hell, but menacing in an *obvious* way -- it has a backbeat that sounds like it came out of a horror movie or dark music video, a skittering, clattering, snickering evil that grins maniacally at its victims. The Kohr-Ah don't skitter with a bouncing backbeat behind them -- they don't sneak up on you through the shadows (the skittering beat) then grin at you malevolently and cackle your doom (the skittering beat buliding up and breaking into the loud bass theme). No, they glide expressionlessly forward, always forward; they move with the sound of flowing water, their beat never changes tempo.

Which brings me to remix two. It's the one I'm currently using, because I like it a lot more -- it *is* quiet and ambient and menacing and oh so smooth. But it's... too quiet and ambient and not enough menacing. It's just waiting for something bad to happen without having anything bad actually happen within it. You guys have a Kohr-Ah Battle remix; this put me in mind of a Kohr-Ah version of a Solar System Exploration theme. Great for drifting through space warily eyeing the Marauders drifting by you; not so great for meeting the Kohr-Ah face-to-face, where the menace is palpable.

I understand the original .MOD has little material to work with in terms of melody, and yet I'd still like to see something closer to the original in sound and style. The original theme filled out and deepened the way the Kzer-Za was would be great; but as it stands neither of these two mixes, which I think of as very reinterpretive mixes, really does it for me.

Seeing as the first you see of them is a recorded message, the point of them not really paying attention does come across pretty well in the game itself, don't you agree? ;)

Fair enough.  I'll *try* to be more concise, but it's not really my nature, so no promises.  ;)



I would never suggest that the strings be replaced with brass, because I wholeheartedly agree with your next paragraph - for a song like this, leading with brass has been done too many times.  I like the strings.  I love the strings.  But they sound naked to me - they sound like they're alone and they don't want to be, they want some companionship, some other instrument to march in step with them and contribute some more volume (in the spatial sense, not the decibel sense).  I'm not sure what that instrument should be - horns seemed like an option, maybe they'd be a bad one, I dunno.  I'm not a composer either, so I'm sure most of my suggestions would sound pretty bad if executed literally, but I'm hoping that if I make these suggestions to people who are composers, it will inspire them to try something that actually will sound pretty good, even if it's not exactly what I suggested.



I entirely agree.  I think where we differ is in how we hear the main melodic tune that's already there, played by the strings.  I already hear some ambuguity there; I hear those strings singing with a tone of longing and regret, but also with the sad resolve of one who has committed themselves to a course of action that is not so much desirable as necessary.  In wanting to flesh out the strings a little more, I'm trying to strengthen and emphasize what I hear as the main source of the ambuguity we're both looking for; if you hear those strings saying nothing but "I am Imperial!  Quiver before my might!" then I fully understand your objection.



I thought about this for a while, and I agree with you.  If this were a song meant to convey the nature of the Ur-Quan which was meant to be heard outside the game, I would absolutely say to leave the tenor.  However, I think this highlights my absolute biggest comment to the remixers, and I know I'm longwinded so I wouldn't blame them for skimming, but if you're a remixer, if you read nothing else I ever say, read this next paragraph at least:

You have to make a decision about what you're composing these tracks for: are they primarily for use outside the game, or inside the game.  If your goal is to write tracks for us to listen to in our playlists, put on mix cds, play in the background while we read books or before frisbee games to pump us up, then you are on the right track.  But if your goal is to remix the in-game music, and therefore compose new tracks which sound good in-game, then I really think you need to tweak some things; in this case, that tenor sounds great in principle, but it's out of place in-game.  I actually went out and found and Ur-Quan to talk to in the game last night just so I could hear the entire track with actual Ur-Quan dialogue in front of it, and that tenor completely threw me.  During the conversation, I was listening to the Ur-Quan speak and absorbing the music mostly subconsciously, which is exactly right - it's background music, it should create an ambience for me, but I shouldn't be listening to it more than I'm listening to the dialogue.  But as soon as that tenor broke in, it immediately grabbed my attention away from the dialogue and made me think "what the hell?  is the Ur-Quan torturing some poor opera singer in the bowels of his ship while he's talking to me?"  Similarly, I've noticed that just about every one of the original songs for SC2 was written in order to loop seamlessly, because it sounded better that way in the game; we'll hear most of these songs end and restart when we're listening to them in the game, so it's better if that happens without us noticing.  But the remixed tracks don't follow the rules of loop-able game music, they follow the rules of regular music that starts with silence, begins, plays, and then quiets down and ends; when you loop that in the game, it's very noticable, and it sounds bad.

Basically, what I'm saying is, you can't achieve both goals with one track.  You can either compose these songs to sound great in our playlists, or you can compose them to sound great in the game, but if you do both, they'll sound, at best, mediocre in both situations.  Maybe you should release two versions of each track?  One that loops well and doesn't conflict with the spoken dialogue in the game, and one that's more natural sounding on its own, to listen to outside the game?

This concludes my most important comment.  You may now return to skimming.  :)



I've found my soul mate!

I was about to respond to your Kohr-Ah comments as well, but this post is already pretty long and I haven't even posted my own yet, so, til next time.

I am, however, very consise. REJOICE!

First of all:

A very nice rant. I couldnt agree with you more.

As for the game/playlist debate:
I listen to this music outside of the game, and thats why I like it so much. In game I pretty much exclusively play melee now and I love the melee music, so all I can say is  ;D.

A random point that I just thought of now.

I really liked the old cold moons orbit MOD (the beepy one). Any chance of making another version of that with the original mood?

What mod that'd be? afaik there's only one orbit mod song in the whole game. 3do version got few alternatives, but those are audio, not mod.

I guess I just assumed them to be mods. Its the one that plays when you fly around earths moon (the beepy one).

I love the remixes!

One question.  Is there anywhere one can download the orignal music in MP3 format?  I'd like to listen to both the before and the after versions together.

Thanks!

Ben

All relevant .MODs and .OGGs are in the sound pack that comes with the Ur-Quan Masters distribution. They're zipped, so you can extract them with any standard unzipping application like Winzip.

Windows Media Player doesn't play .MODs and .OGGs by default, but you can find plug-ins that will allow it to. Probably a better bet is to download WinAmp, though, as WinAmp is a better program in general.

Even better, if you go to our website, http://www.medievalfuture.com/precursors, you can browse each of our remixes, which also contain links to the original .MOD-files. These can be played in any self-respecting media player, like WinAmp.

...where you can also add comments to each remix, describing in detail your thoughts on why they are so much better than the originals! ;)

Just out of curiosity, in the (most excellent and wonderful ;)) remix of the Ur-Quan theme, around 1:32 into the track, there's an (opera) actor singing something in the background.

Could you say what it is and where is the sample taken from (if anywhere specific) ?

Honestly, we have no idea what he's singing. We lifted it off a very popular choir sample CD called Symphony of Voices. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say he's probably singing something religious, but it doesn't matter.

Which reminds me (though this isn't in Remix pack 3, it's from Remix pack 2)... what is that distorted conversation clip during the hyperspace music, around 3:00?? I asked this question on the reaction thread at the web site, got no response...

I guess you'd have to ask Riku, and the amount of times I've seen him online in the past year or two can be counted on one hand...  :P

My best guess is that he's taken it from some sample cd, and that what's being said isn't the point, it's meant to be only babble. But I'll second TiLT's comment: only Riku knows for sure.



TiLT; if you'd known your opera history, which you clearly don't, you'd have known that this singing style probably comes from the Italian opera, most likely late 18th or early to mid-19th century, but possibly as late as 1900. The subject matter of the operas of that age were not religious, as the operas were either light-hearted and comical or deeply tragic stories with the plots taken from mythology (often Greek) or old literature (Shakespeare).

The sample CD TiLT mentions contains not samples taken from real operas, but specially recorded samples of choirs and soloists that are made to sound SIMILAR in style to these operas. More like than not, the samples in question actually contain no recognisable words, but are merely syllables put together to sound like they could have been taken from an Italian opera of the Romantic era.

Hope that answers your question. ;)

Speaking of contacting Riku, is he going to contribute to the 4rth pack, or is he done with that? (I really really hope he is) (along with Mark Vera and you two so as not to pick favorites but I heard that he was not)

"TiLT; if you'd known your opera history, which you clearly don't, you'd have known that this singing style probably comes from the Italian opera, most likely late 18th or early to mid-19th century, but possibly as late as 1900. The subject matter of the operas of that age were not religious, as the operas were either light-hearted and comical or deeply tragic stories with the plots taken from mythology (often Greek) or old literature (Shakespeare)."

And so begins the second Doctrinal Conflict, this time fought amougst the Precursors. :)

Riku is a co-contributor of the Orz track, and he has made a couple of remixes which will probably be featured as bonuses in pack 4. As he's not very actively composing anymore, it seems unlikely that he'll be doing any more remixing for the project.

That's too bad.

How about Jouni?

I'm happy to say that Jouni is still with us, and has key contributions to pack 4.

Yay! Joyous tidings indeed! The energizer composer is still going and going and going and going....

Now you know what would make that news even better? Three guesses and two don't count ::)

Free beer?

If thats the name of the 4rth remix pack, then yes ::)

I know I know. I'm not pushing you. I'm mearly.. showing enthusiam to your amazing music.

Hear hear!


    _.._..,_,_                                             
   (          )   
    ]~,"-.-~~[                                             
  .=])' (;  ([                                             
  | ]:: '    [                                             
  '=]): .)  ([                                             
    |:: '    |     
     ~~----~~ 


 :D