The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

For me single player both rocks and sucks simultaneously. It rocks because, obviously, it's a great game. It sucks because my two favourite ships - the Androsyn and the Melnorme are unavailable. The latter I'm not too bothered about, but I really wish I could get Androsyn ships in my fleet. I know they've skipped the dimension or been wiped out or whatever, but even so; the Shofixti were 'wiped out' but you could bring them back. Couldn't there be a sideline where you can discover a number of wrecked Androsyns on various planets and salvage bits over time so you could then make your own Androsyn - even if you never actually conversed with that particlar race - hence you could get Androsyns without changing the storyline. I mean, you DO already salvage stuff from a Dreadnought wreck so why not?

I'm not a computer bod or anything so I'd probably not be able to code something like this, but if anyone knows of a mod or something that I could get to implement this I'd be very glad.

While it might not be brought into the offical UQM game, you can swap ship files so that you get your clonies back. You might try, for example, adding the 'synth in place of the human cruiser.

You may think I'm an idiot asking this, but HOW do I go about swapping the files in this manner?

Beats me...

I think thats a great idea...

Would the 'you need a native captain at the helm' excuse work here?

Androsynth are just human clones+1...
Now....what would happen if you flew around Orz space in it...? *grin*

So HOW do I do it? Zeep-Eeep?

From the content\packages\uqm-0.3-content.zip extract the files of the ship you want, and put those files unpacked in content\ with the name of the race you want it to replace. Unpacked files override packed files.

Note that you'll also change the sphere of influence this way, which may give strange results.

I thank you muchly, and shall try at once.

Hallelujah!! It works!!

I've replaced Human Cruisers with the Guards, and vice versa [so the melee screen isn't screwed up].

meep-eep and Zeep-eeep, my Androsyns thank you kindly.

By the way, since I've swapped them for Earthlings, which don't have a sphere of influence (least not as far as I know) - will I avoid strange results? Just if theres still a risk I'll not delete my current game [only just restarted] and run two games simultaneously in case the modified one screws up.

It's been a while since I tried this. However, I think that since the humans and the 'synth don't have any dialog, you can get away with extracting the androsyn.shp file from  content\packages\uqm-0.3-content.zip, then
copying the file to the content directory. Finally, rename the androsyn.shp file to human.shp.

You should be safe doing this, since neither humans or 'synth have speech or spheres of influence. Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

I've done this before I swaped the cruiser with the Transformer prices do not change it mearly uses a different ship, think of it as a new model for the race, if you swap them back, the save file will still work you will just have your "trusty cruiser." I've never swapped shp with SOI's before, however I have heard that someone swapped a cruiser for a dreadnought there when a few diffencesyou could build/start off with Dreadnoughts, the Ur-Quan used crusiers and strangely the Ur-Quan's SOI was colored blue.

So far so good. No problems as of yet.

I think the game still registers it as an Earthling, so I don't think there will be any problems. For example, it's still labelled Earthling Cruiser when you purchase one, still costs 1100 RU, and somewhat annoyingly, the maximum crew you can put into one is still 18, even though Guardians are meant to be staffed by 20 (not that I'm complaining - I can still get em and whoop ass ;D). Hence I don't think there will be a problem - all thats actually changed is the ship model - the game still thinks of it as a Cruiser.

It would be rather amusing if it DID recognise it as Androsynths though....

...go and visit the Orz for some payback!!    :P

This could happen only in the DOS version of SC2, not in UQM. And still I don't realy belive that story. First of all the color blue is already taken by the Arilou. Secondly Humans have no sphere of influence, so if you switched the files Ur-Quan would cease to exist.

Plotwise it's a terrible idea since it greatly diminishes the sense of horror at the Orz's replacement of the Androsynth if the Orz have missed anything in the process -- the Orz are scary because their ascendancy was so utterly complete and inexplicable, like some natural phenomenon rather than a true war.

Gamewise, yeah, 'Synth are too good, at least from my perspective. They beat too many things; the same reason why it takes you forever to get the Utwig, Chmmr, and Yehat ships on your side, and probably why you only get a small amount of time to build Spathi (though even then I think Fwiffo by himself is almost too good). And why on the other hand you have a limitless supply of Zoq-Fot-Pik Stingers and Earthling Cruisers from almost the beginning of the game...

Also I think there were good reasons for not wanting the 'Synth to actually be in the game; it'd in some ways be harder to write dialogue for a race that was human in body but had a truly alien culture, especially the weird soup of emotions the 'Synth must have toward Humans. And, of course, 'Synth are just less interesting-looking than other aliens, even the Syreen, who at least have the advantage of being blue (among other interesting traits...)

And also I think Paul Reiche might've been uncomfortable putting a 'Synth in the game. I remember reading a chat transcript where he said he did, in fact, put together many ideas about the 'Synth based on American gay culture (they're all male and they wear the inverted pink triangle, a gay pride symbol, as their comm badge; they achieve their freedom from a second-class citizenship created by an extremist religious movement), and then later said he was uncomfortable about the stereotypes that engendered (art showing them with immaculately pouffed hair and referring to them as the "fashion designers of space combat"). Would you really want to see some B-list voice actor play around with the dynamics behind this idea? Well, okay, maybe I would, but it'd have a good chance of being an offensive lawsuit magnet.

I don't think the native starship captain thing is all about physiology (though that's certainly part of it -- look at how the Spathi cockpit is laid out). It's about having native training and stuff; you don't want the pilot of your Guardian to still be learning how the thing works in battle, even if he fits in the seat just fine.

So what your proposing is that none of the good ships/ships the majority of people favour should be utilised by the single player, and that only the really naff ships that no-one really likes should be available?

Seems a waste of good design work to me......

[no offence meant to those who really enjoy using Zoq-Fot Stingers etc - Its just people, at least from my experience, do tend to prefer Utwigs, Chenjesus and generally the more powerful ships i.e. above 10 points.]

I agree Synth are powerful. I can beat down most anything with a fully staffed Synth, BUT vs computer AI, possibly the most valuable ship is the Thraddash. At least with synth, whilst most battles are winnable, they do require some skill to pull off. With a Torch, which ARE EASILY ATTAINABLE in the main game, you can easily beat every ship, assuming its computer controlled. Do you propose that Thraddashs' are, so to speak, banned from the single player too?

In Androsynth's case, there is a significant problem without native starship captain's. The Guardian is piloted by a number of Androsynth's and they communicate with each other telepathically. (see the captain screen with four guys, each with one task. specially the one who only controls one button is very interesting) So they always know exactly when to 'press the right button'.

Quote:
This could happen only in the DOS version of SC2, not in UQM. And still I don't realy belive that story. First of all the color blue is already taken by the Arilou. Secondly Humans have no sphere of influence, so if you switched the files Ur-Quan would cease to exist.       
End Quote


Having tried switching the Earthling and Ur-Quan ship files (both in SC2 and URM) I can say that, yes, the Ur-Quan's new SOI does turn blue. Also
it does not disappear. The race colours, diaglog and ship data are stored
seperately, it seems, from the positioning and size of the SOI.

OK - rather than starting yet another topic on the subject of 'Has anyone considered doing...' and irritating everyone by taking more main board space I've decided to simply continue with this post, since the original aim of this topic has been fulfilled - I have my Androsynths in single player ;D. But anyway - thats done and dusted now.

Has anyone considered merging an SC1 'Full Game' option into UQM? I'm not sure how much work it would take, and its just an idea, but I've noticed one of the things people mention quite a lot about Super Melee is that they like the strategy element, and a Full Game option  would provide this.

[For those of you who are not familiar with SC1 this involved building a fleet from scratch in a star system, setting up and fortifying mines and colonies and strategic positioning of ship - basically like chess in space with star control ships, where battles are fought when opposing ships meet on the same star]

As said - just an idea. I certainly would love to see these brought back though.

Well....

The closest thing right now is the Aftermath - Other than that, it is just a idea. I don't think it will happen soon if at all because of the work and possibly copy-rights. (not sure on the latter though)

Having never being able to play SC1, i would LOVE to have a go at it!

*sigh* Your probably right. Thankfully Dosbox exists so I can run my original disk on XP. Miss a few of the new ships though. Still I didn't have my hopes up. I wasn't really meaning it for me personally anyway - I just meant that that kind of thing would probably be desirable to many people who play the game.

Watch out, just for thinking about it, SWAT and FBI will be showing up very quickly. Watch out for the RIAA too =p

 ::)

To be honest, I think Torches are overpowered for single-player and I doubt that the AI's stupidity versus the Afterburner is intentional. I'm no expert but I imagine figuring out pathing against an Afterburner-like device would be rather complicated, and Paul and Fred did say before that they often ran with cool, implementable ship ideas first and tried to balance them second. I do consider using Torches to effortlessly kill enemies to be almost like exploiting a bug; at least using Fwiffo takes some practice.

Yes, cool ships are fun, but the single-player game is meant as a progression from beginning to end facing challenges along the way, not as an hour-long festival of whoop-ass. And the choices of what ships you get to play are dictated by what makes a realistic and fun story just as much as what's fun to pilot; if you want to go crazy with random ships the Melee option is right there, after all. Or are you proposing that the game storyline should somehow find a way to allow you to pilot Dreadnaughts and Marauders?

I doubt that even if the Orz storyline didn't exist you'd get to pilot Guardians in the game -- after all, there's a little thing about the Androsynth both being Hierarchy thralls and having a burning, unyielding hatred for their parent race.

Androsynth are telepaths? Maybe that has something to do with why they discovered Dimensional Fatigue.

But they could just be very, very well-trained to work as a unit, each one knowing what the right course of action to take in a particular situation is. Androsynth were bred for that kind of coordination and obedience, after all. (On another note, it is sort of a contradiction that you can be reduced to one crew and still have four guys on the captain screen -- if you take that whole "crew" thing entirely seriously, of course.)

Watching the ZFP fly is also pretty funny. And that captain screen makes a bit more sense, since my impression is that each ZFP triplet functions as one crewman... Yes, the guy on the right has no job but to do the tonguing. :)

I agree, however I feel you have missed my point.
When starting this post I was in no way proposing that the code be changed - only asking whether I could change my game so that I could enjoy the game how I wanted it. At the end of the day I never asked whether people thought this should be possible, only whether it was possible - and it is. Frankly, I don't care whether you think I should be doing this or not or whether the lack of native captains or storyline would not permit it in reality.

One other thing on the subject of bringing things back.....

Scrapped ships.....  why exactly are the scrapped? I mean, whilst you get RU for scrapping equivalent to the cost of buying a new one, wouldn't it make more sense to just store the ship in the starbase [I mean it is a starbase after all] so that a) You could bring it out again later - especially with ships you can't build yourself - say when one got destroyed and b) so that in the event of an attack the starbase would have some defense.

I know this sounds like another proposal for a change to the game and in a way it is, but for the most part I'm just wondering whether there is a legitamate reason why a starbase bigger than your ship is unable to hold ships for later use - especially seeing as how it already holds the materials to make them. Is it so that your limited in your use of ships you only get a certain number of or what?

As far as gameplay is concerned, I believe that scrapping the ships is supposed to "melt them down into raw materials", whereby you can build other things, like landers, et. al.  Since there's a 1:1 ratio of scrap price to new ship cost, what is the practical difference whether it goes into the drydock or the trash compactor?

In terms of the game story, the Spathi/Ilwrath Earthguard force was supposed to provide all defense against attack, and the Ur-Quan would not allow the humans to have their own ships; if they showed up to find even a single non-Hierarchy vessel around the Starbase, they would undoubtedly destroy it, likely destroy the Starbase, and possibly exact retribution on planetary surface targets as well.  As the story currently plays out, the Starbase commander can play "dumb hominid" with the Ur-Quan fairly convincingly so long as the Vindicator is not around; it's the Spathi and Ilwrath who would be in trouble for the state of affairs in Sol.

Moreover, just because the Starbase is bigger than your ship doesn't mean that it's full of empty space. The Starbase is supposed to be packed with various forms of manufacturing and repair machinery, and it'd be kind of unusual for the Ur-Quan to leave very much empty docking space lying around, since the Starbase is supposed to only be a maintenance station, not a battle platform.

And yeah, it would be a totally unnecessary gameplay wrinkle. Most of the time scrapping is exactly the same as storing because you lose no RU in the conversion. If you think you're going to need a ship that you can only build for a short time in the game, like the Eluder or the Torch, then just build it and save it in your ship. Slots aren't that precious.

Except for the tons and tons of precursor fabrication technology they ripped out of the precursor vessel when they refitted the space station...

I guess that could be dumped into the slave shield or something, if it came down to it.

That would work till the precursor ship came back and needed fuel... ;)

Besides, you'd think the Ur-quan would know something is wrong if the people were alive. They would be asking around and I don't think that a human could stand up to ur-quan tortue very long. Even if they could, I am sure that 1 in 1500 people (I think that is how many people on board....)  on the base would tell all just to get a favour..... (maybe no though)

Now THIS is strange!
Becaue from my expirience changing tha shp fiiles (in SC2) was my way of finding the location of undiscovered races. I usualy switched the race I wanted to find wih Spathi, as they are the first you meet. After taling with Fwiffo, Spathi's SOI appeared in the location of the race I wanted to find.
The SOI colors were switched.
Their sizes were switched.
But if you changed the Spathi file to some SOI-less race file, Spathi's SOI did not appear.
This happened to me when I changed Spathi.shp and Chmmr.shp, I cant remember wheter or not I was playing around with the earthling file, but I don't see a reason for it to act differently then the chmmr.

I think it will be much simpler if I just checked to see if it's true, since you say it works with UQM, and that's what I'm gonna do as soon as I download UQM (forgot to do it after recent windows reinstalation)



They could always buy it from the Melnorme



COMMANDER HAYES: Power down all non essential sub-systems! Turn the bridge light to red! Lt. Smith you'll be at the light switch turning it on and off! Everybody get ready! Ok, here they come. Open hailing frequencies!

COMMANDER HAYES: Attention unidentified space vessel!
I am Starbase Commander Hayes of the slave planet Earth.
our hyperwave broadcasts -- extremely weak
situation critical -- energy cores exhausted
scanners and deep radar are non-functional
we cannot identify your vessel
Are you the scheduled Hierarchy resupply ship?
Repeat, are you the resupply vessel?

;)

That would MIGHT work right up until the point of the Ur-quan refitting the energy cores, or seeing the old ones......

On the other hand - forget the ship buying fuel from the melnorme - You just come back and blast the Ur-quan ship - that is what you did for the illwrath. With any luck, the Ur-quan will be damaged as well.....

...enh. The fact that they were just letting the base starve for over a decade must make the likelihood of suddenly returning *now* seem pretty low, especially since the Ur-Quan have apparently grown so lax that the only response to their robot drone thing was one half-functional freelance Ilwrath Avenger. It's possible that just looking at the Unzervalt facilities gave them no clue as to how complete or well-fueled your Precursor tug was before it launched, and they may assume the Vindicator was just always fully decked out with a huge fuel supply.

*NNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA* More and more *juice!* Androsynth are not the story!!

LOL...."Lt. Smith you'll be at the light switch turning it on and off!"
I laughed so hard people are subtly moving away from me =p

If the Ur-Quan turned up, wouldn't they know that something is amiss because of the fact that there is absolutely no Heirarchy presence in the system.

Isn't that the point of leaving the Luna base active?

You dont, you -atleast- turn it off so its not broadcasting that damn song =p

I think the Ur-quan would know something is amiss as soon as they find the drone gone - then, after they check with the moon - they would undoubtly know.

What does everyone think they would do then?  I think they would severely question Hayes, and then, if they find out about the vindicator, they'd destroy the station, at least.

"Hayes: Ur-Quan slave law requires that we maintain an orbital space platform." Why would the intentionally force their slaves to break their own laws? I would think that since the Ur-Quan are so preditary, they would hunt as is there life-style. It not in their character to set a trap either.

They might end up killing the entire crew and leave the station abandoned.

They're also not stupid enough to leave a refueling/refitting outpost for the 'enemy' untouched.

Um, the station existing and being crewed is not the violation; as you say, the Ur-Quan were maintaining that base for years before you came.

The violation of the slave laws is outfitting and maintaining an unregistered Precursor starship in the hands of a rogue human captain with the intention of assisting said captain with the overthrow of the Empire. It's hard to see how that doesn't count as "high treason" in most any legal system you could name.

I think it's pretty clear from various points in the game that even if Hayes hadn't actually helped you, it's the solemn duty of *every* loyal Hierarchy member to capture or destroy any free non-Hierarchy ship on sight, never mind a confirmed rebel ship. Had Hayes been doing his duty, the moment you'd mentioned opposing the Ur-Quan he should've sent people to sabotage the Vindicator and disable it.

That's not how the Ur-Quan probe worked. It was made to scan the area, intercept and warn any mysterious ships, then ride it's powerful engines back to the Ur-Quan, and report what it found. Unfortunately, it never even got close. A very crippled Ilwrath ship managed to pick it up, and decided to keep the glory to himself. Who knows, maybe the Avenger had gotten most of its damage from trying to capture the probe.

The Ur-Quan left the sol system, to deal with the VERY important battle for the Sa Matra. There weren't any resources to keep track of the slave worlds anymore, and the slave shield is a good piece of tech. It would keep a planet enslaved for a long time. The Ur-Quan trusted their probe, and it would warn them if anything was amiss.... right?  ;)


Without your help, he would've been dead. You managed to destroy an Ilwrath Avenger in one hit. Don't forget that your flagship is more to scale with a space station, than another starship. Plus, to take wisdom from Fwiffo, you have very big guns, and Hayes didn't. I think with all that, Hayes would have a little respect for you. :D

The commander was reluctant at first. But you were the last hope that Earth had from beating their Ur-Quan opressors. So, he took that chance.


Maybe the space station is important to the slave shield? It may not be making the shield itself, but it could be monitoring it, making small adjustments, etc. Or, it can be used to prepare and refit Ur-Quan ships to penetrate the shield. Hayes never had the Ur-Quan blueprints, so there's no telling how the slave shield and space station could be linked.

Or, maybe the Ur-Quan want their fallow slaves to do something useful for them. If us humans don't want to fight, we at least have to repair and fit their ships, so they can fight. We did destroy many heirarchy ships, so this would be a way of paying the Ur-Quan back.

Lastly, they can watch over the Sol system, and make sure everything is in check, without having to go out of their way. The gas station is right there, so may as well check up on the humans while you're at it.


The Ur-Quan know that your ship came from Vela. They tried following you, but had lost your trail. They never know where you really went, or what you are doing.  They're also busy losing a war, and have neither the time, nor the resources to do a full scrub of the galaxy, to look for a single ship.

Also, the space station wasn't exactly made for your ship. It took about 2 weeks of hard robotic labor to make the full modifications to both your ship, and the station. When you consider how effective 2000 crew and robotic labor can be in the future, it was probably a complete teardown and rebuild of many important ship and starbase systems. Only after those modifications, could you actually make use of the station.

Red tape. All they may have needed were larger docking clamps or something. It will have taken 13 days just to get the building permit :P

I'd think one of the major benefits of going rogue would be skipping all the bureaucracy.

I know what the Quan would do if they found out the station was servicing a rogue vessel. The same thing they make all their slaves do to rogues who don't submit to the Hierarchy: they'd have the station outfitted with weaponry and it would be forced to attack and destroy the Vindicator next time it came within orbit of Earth.

Or Hayes wouldve then told the vindicator why he is now sitting on some very big guns, and says "I could blow up the whole god damn world with this gun..." =p

I agree 100% Art =p

Speaking of SC1, i have it. My friend somehow used a sega genises disk and put SC1 on pc cd. Its kinda fun, more slow paced than SC2 and has EXTREMLY SLOW SHIPS in melee.
Also, its not rpg.

In some cases the first is always best, I say differ  :P