The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

Since we all seem to be from different areas with different backgrounds,
I'm curious to see what people have to say on the topic of religion.
Now, I really hope to avoid any religious preaching, bashing or
saber rattling. I'm just curious as to what religion (if any) you folks
follow.

Personally, I don't think I fit into any category. I'm not Christian or Buddist, nor am I Atheist. I have a strong spiritual side, but my beliefs (or perhaps
ideas is a better word) do not always parallel organised religion.

I enjoy learning about other religions and looking for similarities and
differences in each one.

I am from Canada, and am a christian, even though I behave more like you described yourself. I believe in the principles of christianity (with some notable exceptions) and not the history.

The Question has not been answered, which is why this issue exists in the first place. I can't really go into detail on what I think of this matter because that would involve ruthlessly slamming on religious fundamentalism, moderate "pick 'n choose" religion, and atheism.

Can the UQM Forums maintain their air of respect and civility when confronted with a discussion topic that has driven people, quite literally, to bloodshed?  Stay tuned!

:)

Now how could anyone who believes in the morals of christianity cause bloodshed ::).

I am an atheist, but I'm still christian. I had in mind to ... pull myself off of it, but I have tons of other things to do so I haven't done it. Yet. :P

I beleive in a higher power, or unifying force, but not in god.

oh yeah, and I'm a west coast american.

I am also Canadian (east coast).

I'm going to ignore the rolling-eyes smiley and answer seriously. ;)
Someone who devoutly believes in the morals of Christianity can very easily cause bloodshed (in the defense of another person).
"And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them." (the golden rule)
and
"To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also;"
Are two quotes which many people put together and use to conclude that devout Christians _must_ (by decree from Jesus himself) be pacifists to their death.  While this might be true regarding a Christian's own safety, they say nothing about defending someone else by use of deadly force.  Jesus didn't say "If a man strikes your neighbor on the cheek, offer him yours (or worse, walk away or offer your neighbor's other cheek)".
The only logical difficulty I might have is with wishing someone to use deadly force to prevent me from murdering someone else (a necessary desire for the golden rule to hold true).  But, I suppose that my killer would be preventing me from commiting a grevious wrong (sin; mortal sin according to Catholic church), and I'd be shuffling off to the pearly gates... In that respect I suppose it remains self consistant.

Hopefully that didn't constitute preaching.  ;)

Edit: Oh yeah, I'm Christian, not Buddhist, despite my "Enlightened" status.

Good answer

Me? Atheist plain and simple.

Hmmm... You forgot us. I am a Jew. Nothing more.

I guess I also follow personal beliefs that don't really follow any specific religion. As cheesy as the following may sound, it's the best I can do in describing things like that. I believe that there exists something that cannot be directly perceived and measured, a sort of spiritual plane of being, if you prefer. I believe there is some kind of conciousness around that you might as well call God or a god or several gods. I don't know. What I do know is that there is a whole lot of weird stuff happening that I don't think pure science will ever completely explain. As for what happens to people after death, I have no idea. Everybody finds out one day conclusively so why take any stress over it?  ;)

For religion in general, I try hard to not blame religion itself for anything but the people who use it. Like any ideological system I think it's a tool at some level that isn't bad or good in itself. It's like how some people think communism is a horrible system to be living in and some blame capitalism for all the evil in the world. The system itself does nothing, it's the people in it.

You made some very good points there.

I would go a step farther about life after death. The living should NOT know what happens. That would lead to mass suicide/mass depression and atheism. (atheism isnt bad, but people need something to help them do the right thing, and religion fills that role for many people).

Are you implying that I am some kind of immoral monster then?  ::)

(I know you're not I'm just being an annoying nitpicker, and besides concidering my avatar you might answer yes :P)

There are some people who believe they do know what happens
to them when they die. Some people firmly believe in their version
of Heaven. The Tibetian Book of the Dead maps out a life-after-death.
Followers of Edgar Cayce often believe that we return to new bodies.
Yet no mass suicide. I think that the reason for this lack of life taking
is a result of the belief systems declaring that life (this life) is very
important.

I am as well.

People firmly believe in life after death yes, but there is still no proof.

It is actually highly improbable... though it would be nice.

Ya... eternal bliss. That would be nice.

I tend to think that we go around and come back again. Life->death->life->death. Sort of a big wheel. To what purpose? Dunno. But I think it
makes as much sense as life->death->still dead->still dead.

When we re-encarnate we lose memory of our past life, so how is that much different then life>death>still dead

Its not. Well for you personally its not anyway, unless... you visit some shady regression hypnotherapy guy and finally remember you where actually napoleon.
:P

It's been a while since I took a serious look at re-encarnation
thoery, but let me take a hack at it.
What is the difference if we live, then die and stay dead, or
live, die, and are reborn if we lose all memory of our past lives?

The way some belive it to work is similar (in a sense) to Frued's theory
of how the mind works. On a spiritual level, we are said to have three
levels of intellect.
1. The conscience mind that we use and think with every day.
2. The sub-conscience mind which stores distant associations, fears
and deep, forgotten memories.
3. The Super-conscience, which acts as a sub-conscience to the the
sub-conscience.

Still with me?

When we die, the memories and thoughts we had in the conscience mind are lost. They fade out with our bodies. Important memories or information are past back to the sub-conscience. The sub-conscience then takes over while we are between lives; storng away tidbits of information that we gained during life.

When we are reborn, we gain a new, blank conscience. The sub-conscience passes forward patterns or traits into the conscience mind. However, full memories rarely filter through.

Some people claim that they can pull memories from the sub- (or super-) conscience minds of their past lives. Of course it's hard to prove this either way. However, I believe this to be the theory of why we don't fully remember our past lives.
... assuming we have past lives.

About having many lives... I have always thought that how does the increase in population fit in that picture?

Do monkeys live many lives? Do we share the lives with them? If I die, is it possible that I reincarnate as a chimpansee?

If only humans have this ability, when did we start having it? When we started walking with two feet instead of four? When we started using tools? When we started talking? When we started having religions?

I am not trying to be a pain-in-the-ass, I just like these questions and hope that some believer can answer them with something more than "don't take it literally" -bullshit.

Indeed, now that our population grows explosively, new consciousnesses need to be formed (born?) to fill the ranks of reincarnaters becouse of the suprlus of new bodies. However what if the 3rd world war whipes out 95% of the polulation. That would mean the consciousnesses have to be in the reincarnation queue for... almost an eternity. And who decides your place in line? And what does the consciousness do all that time? hybernate??

I don't really follow reincarnation, but I'll play along.

REINCARNATION THEORYCRAFT: Being in death queue for millions of years isn't bad because you can't think while you're in it. And if there is reincarnation, you're probably going to respawn as a descendant of yours. If your line gets wiped out, you might end up as a third grand cousin type of thing. If those are all gone (unlikely), you end up as different ethnicity. If the species is dead, you trace back to the closest animal (a chimp) and live as those. So if you have a pet Parrot, it may have been a Tyranosaurus at some point. Dumb things like insects probably have souls too, but barely. If the planet's surface gets wrecked, everyone starts off as amoebae again. If the planet is destroyed, then we're either obliterated, we haunt the solar system, or we migrate and start living as aliens.

I'm wary about reincarnation, but I find life in heaven/hell equally, or even more silly. :P

I know it's one of those things that are impossible to prove/disprove, if any over you die and are reincarnated let us know. BTW I am what is referred to as an A and P Catholic, which basicly means I don't go the mass regularly, but I make sure I attend on certain Holy days(ie.  Ash Wenesday and Palm Sunday etc.)

Um...okay. I am here to tell you that I have been
re-encarnated. I gotta tell you that it's been
quite a trip. What? Don't believe me? Well,
didn't you want someone to come back and settle this
debate? You mean I died for nothing?

I think that reincarnation belief is getting old. It would fit well in year 0 when people knew nothing about the universe and evolution.

I think that Shiver had an excellent point about what would happen to the reincarnating souls if Earth would be completely destroyed.

They would become lost souls and eat space marines.

Even comic-book cosmologies distinguish between death and soul-death.  Transmigration of souls doctrines can still work even if worlds are destroyed.

(ObUQM: The Kohr-Ah believe in reincarnation and they incinerate worlds all the time!)

(Also, to answer the original question: I was raised agnostic and saw no reason to change.)

(And is that a Shadows of Darkness reference in the title?)

Doom 4tehwin!!1

That's not new I've had it for two or three months now.

Star Control II isn't new, I've had it for 10 years now. Does it matter?

Quote: (And is that a Shadows of Darkness reference in the title?)

Yes, that was a Shadows of Darkness (Quest for Glory IV)
reference. I love those Quest for Glory games :)

Chanting Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Pizza is also a great
way to distract/annoy/amuse my Wiccan friends.