The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

About a month ago, I moved my SC2:UQM directory over to my D drive so I could wipe C and re-install XP.

Just a few minutes ago I fire the game up only to realize my saved game is missing.

After some research, I discovered why.

Any chance of changing the saved game location from "C:\Documents and Settings\Asrial\Application Data\uqm\save" to the actual directory of the game itself?

Windows is a multi-user system nowadays (though barely).
%APPDATA%\uqm\ *is* the correct location for user-specific data.

If you really want another location, you'll have to compile the game yourself, though I guess we could add a command-line option to the next release. As a workaround, you could start UQM from a batch file where you first set the APPDATA environment variable to something else.

The trouble is locating/remembering the saved game if you're wanting to wipe Windows.

There's 49 saved game slots, does it really need to be broken down further into the different user profiles for Windows?

Just toss the saved games into a saved game sub-directory under the directory that the uqm.exe is started from.

Microsoft seems to be trying to separate the unchanging program and data files (which can be read-only for anyone but the administrator) from the user-specific changable data files (which can be only accessable to the owner). Even though not much Windows software follows those guidelines, it is still a good idea.
Each user should be able to have his own saved games and config, protected from accidental overwriting by other users. It's not a matter of not having enough save slots.
If you recklessly delete your "Documents and Settings" folder (along with the rest of your C drive), without making a backup, then you've only got yourself to blame. You may yet run into other programs that won't work anymore as they did before.
Also, if you wipe your Windows dir, you're deleting the registry as well, which contains settings for even more programs. If you reinstall Windows, you should really reinstall all applications too. This would mean that any settings and saved games for your games would have to be backed up and put back later. Ideally, if every application would follow the "Application Data" scheme that Microsoft advices, you would only have to save that dir (for all users), instead of the save files for every application individually.

..but they don't :P

So do we go with what we're supposed to do or what's normal?

It sounds like you've given this alot of thought so I don't see it changing.  Just need to make sure I check that location for saved games.

Actually, I expect that in the future this way will become the norm.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if in the next version of Windows (or the one after that) applications won't even be able to write in their installation dir.


Neither do I. :)


The "Documents and Settings" folder is also where your "My Documents" folder and your desktop is stored. I'd expect that someone who is reinstalling his system might want to save that anyhow.

another nice thought would be if there were a shortcut that could be made and placed in the UQM install dir or elsewhere(part of the install package) that would bring the user to the proper dir.

Something like this file...
windows shortcut to appdata\uqm\ folder (http://home.earthlink.net/~profounddarkness77/uqm%20save%20data.lnk).

I don't know if win95/98 will evaluate environment variables like that but winme/2k/xp should.

Short term, just copy your saved games to the D: drive. Then,
re-install Windows. When you're done, copy the saved game files back into
their old directroy. It isn't pretty, but it'll bookmark your place for now.

I grab the desktop via the actual DESKTOP area in Explorer and I save nothing in My Documents.

When you have 5 drives @ 684gb with 1.5% free, you tend to place things in other locations... heheh.

 :o Thats a lot of space.

I think it's silly, and a pain in the ass. There should be a checkable option to turn this on and off. NO-ONE but me uses my computer, so why should I be inconvenienced? =p

Thank microsoft for the new inconvenience.... I too think there should be some way to turn off this new application data storage system (in the operating system).  There isn't though, and chances are in the future we will be even more restricted to what we can and *can't* do with our computers (look up protected computing, it's microsoft's future plan to 'protect' the 'end-user').

Also a reason for this being in since the 9x days is corporations like one place (or a few places) to backup data and they don't want software installed files getting mixed up with settings and user created files.

I think you mean "trusted computing". But that's not what this is about. This is about separation of privileges. Multi-user systems have had this for decades, and Windows is only recently beginning to act like one. Separation of privileges is a good thing.
The idea is that different users can have different privileges. Even if you're the only user on your computer, it's still a good idea to have a separate user for the system administration. That way, you can't accidentally screw up your whole system, and the damage that something which exploits a security hole in an application you run as your normal user can do is limited.
Ideally, every system service would run with its own privileges. So if you run a web server, and it is exploited, your private files will  be safe. (But even on modern *nix systems they don't go this far).
You'd still have total control over your computer; you can always log in as Administrator/root/supervisor. I'd say even more so, as you have the power restrict what your programs can do.

The thing with Trusted Computing is that you can't control what exactly you run on your own computer anymore. Separation of privileges is something different.


Having the saved games in a separate location has an other advantage; you could just delete the program while keeping the saved games, without having to carefully investigate which file belongs to which. And you could even have multiple versions of the game installed, sharing the same saved games. If I'm not mistaken, if you use "roaming" in Windows (which I personally never did), you would automatically be able to access your uqm config and saved games from other machines as well.


Edit: some typos fixed

I'm not stupid enough to delete explorer.exe, or any other critical system file, and I like having the power to do whatever I want on my PC whenever I want.

Another thing, when I want to remove a game from my system, I shouldnt have to go on a witch hunt for saved games or settings or profiles or whatever...Everything that is related to that game that came with the game, should be contained, in its entirety, in the smegging file I set it to, the folder I install it to.
/rant off

Microsoft just seem to want to really irritate the hell out of me...Ah well, theyre better than Macintosh =p

Never accidentally moved a folder into another folder when clicking on it in the tree view of explorer?
I agree that user screwups are not as big a deal as in unix, as you have little power over your system in Windows anyhow.
But separation of privileges doesn't only protect you against your own mistakes, but also against the mistakes of the programmers that created the stuff you run on your system. But I guess that if you run your own firewall, don't use Internet Explorer, don't use Outlook, don't use MSN, frequently run Windows Update, and frequently update all other network software, you're safe from the worst offenders. Still, you may only have to run one piece of software you forgot to update, and your whole system lies open.


And that's why Windows is still one big security hole. Because Microsoft knows that users would rather work on a virus infected, spyware-ridden zombie PC, than have to type in a password before doing something critical.
Now with XP SP2 they seem to have finally realised that a little inconvenience can save people from a lot of inconvenience. Inconvenience not only for the ignorant Windows users, but everyone who gets spammed by virus mails, and in fact everyone on the internet whose connection gets so much slower because peoples infected Windows PCs are clogging up the network trying to find new victims.


Or you could select uninstall... that way also the junk a program left in your registry should be deleted.


There's a lot to be said against Microsoft, but separation of priviliges is a good thing. And long overdue too.

I have never been hacked that I noticed in the years I've been using a PC, and the only serious virus I ever got was wormblaster F. If I get hacked and I don't even notice it (if it affects my PC's performance, that would show) then how is it harmful, why should I irritate the hell out of myself?

I use Total Commander, so no, I have never accidently moved a file I didn't intend to.

I always uninstall, but some games think that because theyre obviously so good, I am only uninstalling them to reinstall them later, that they leave things on my system.

Wasn't SP2 a ridiculously buggy mess that screwed a HELL OF A LOT of people over? =p

So you had a virus, which proves you've been vulnerable. You've just been lucky this time that you've only been spreading this virus to other people and performing a denial of service attack on the Windows update servers. Next time it may be something more serious.


It's unlikely that anyone will specifically hack you. It's more likely you'll be the victim of a worm which automatically exploits vulnerabilities.
And that you don't notice it doesn't mean anything. All the while it could have been sending documents found on your computer to people in your address book, or changing numbers in your Excel sheets, or adding random rude words in your word documents, or taking pictures through your webcam, or recording audio, and publishing that online. Just to name a few things. And tomorrow it may format your hard disk.


That's a problem with those uninstallers, not with the location of the config and saved games.


That's mainly because it closed a lot of ports by default (which is a good thing). If you need to listen on a port you need to open it explicitely.

You haven't had the ability to do whatever you wanted to your PC since 1995.  Think Windows' disk caching and memory management sucks?  Too bad for you, no third-party products have worked in almost a decade.  Want to dupe your system to a new HDD, to say, head off a dying disk before it gets too bad?  They broke that ability, too, although you can pay somebody money (http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/) for the privilege of making a backup of your own system.

Not to say that "the olde days" were necessarily any better, in alot of ways things were worse, but I'm old, so I remember the days of having "absolute control over my hardware", and the closest thing we have to that level of fine-grained control on PCs today is Linux.  Windows is a joke, and I for one am not laughing anymore.


Funny, that's precisely how software installs work on MacOS X.  And most of the package managers in the major Linux distributions are able to clean up after themselves flawlessly.  Seems like someone is making hasty generalizations (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/hastygen.html) about the state of computing, you might want to give some of the alternatives a try.


Spoken like someone who has never used a Mac.  :P  The Mac vs. PC debate has been an anachronism since Windows 95 came out; trying to start it now makes you look silly.  All the major apps (Office, Photoshop, etc.) have worked identically on both platforms for years, and their GUIs are similar enough that the "adjustment period" between them is almost nil.  There's basically been no substantive difference between the platforms from a users' perspective for a long, long time, except for the quality of hardware (and OS software).  And of course, now that Apple has put Unix under the hood, I have the power to do whatever I want on my Mac whenever I want.  :P


Here's the analogy I used with my mom: say some thieves break into your garage, set up a methamphetamine lab, and start selling crystal meth out of YOUR garage.  You never use your garage, and you don't keep anything of value in there, and you're not doing anything wrong, so should you care?

It's basically the same thing with vulnerable Windows PCs.  It's not necessarily whether it causes harm to you personally, but whether it causes harm to those around you, or feeds into larger problems.  And in the case of worms, etc., it definitely does.

So I run SpyBot - Search & Destroy once a week.

Sure, it may be the uninstaller's fault, but if its all in the one folder than I don't have to root around in my documents.

Have there actually been worms etc that did that sort of thing? I've never heard of them.
I use Gmail, so It cant sent stuff to my address book.

The difference between a Meth lab and a virus is kind of simple.
You don't go to jail, and you can exit them 90% of the time by running a simple program.

This is what most worms DO. Killing the host is bad strategy.

Well, not to start a debate the size of mountain, but I am deciding between a Mac or PC, any suggestions? I have heard that the PC is easier to handle, but I not even close to being  new at CPU's - though I am by no mean a expert. I have also heard that a Mac is better for when it comes to really working your CPU on grahics, photos and video editing.

Any suggestions? Or should I move this to off-topic?

I don't know if off topic or not but the rule of thumb is pretty much as you stated.  If you want to do graphics work get a mac, there is more (better, stabler) software for graphics on a mac (the exception may be rendering like 3ds max?)

The mac in general is stable compared with a PC (and as a bonus latest mac OS is based on unix :) )

On the other hand with a PC you are bound to learn more about computers in general (while doing stuff with it).  The PC has a more open (maybe visible is a better word) architecture.  On a plus side you will be able to play more games as just about every game that is made for computer is available for PC. Not so much on mac but there are mac only games too, marathon anyone?  The down side is stability and back stabing OEM manufacturers (in most cases).

Without getting into much more detail if you aren't a computer enthusiast (as in enjoy tinkering and learning about) and just want to get some work done, get a mac.  If you are (or want to be) an enthusiast and get into playing with the myriad of OSes out there while spending most of your time working, get a PC (with caution if from OEM).

Oh, and if I am not mistaken PCs are cheaper than macs in general...

If i get started, I will never stop....Please...get a PC =p

Yes, this is quite off-topic, but who cares?  :)

I would argue that the decision is purely a matter of cost and comfort:

If you're looking at laptops, I would strongly recommend an Apple PowerBook, the hardware is top-notch, and the level of integration with the operating system simply cannot be beat by "commodity" hardware and software.  Speaking from experience, it's most definitely worth paying a premium for something that's nigh-indestructible and works well.

If you're looking at desktops, it's pretty much a wash -- all the software tools you would use are available for OSX and Windows (and to a somewhat lesser extent, Linux) so it's a matter of finding the right hardware/software at the right price.  Keeping your machine patched and working might also be a factor; both OSX and Windows have auto-update facilities built-in, but in my experience the OSX updater is nicer.

As far as the "easier to handle" argument, I suggest heading down to an Apple Store, or someplace that sells Apple machines, and trying one out for yourself -- you'll quickly realize that whomever told you this was lying and/or misinformed.  There is basically no difference between platforms anymore from a users' perspective, but the OSX interface is slick, slick, slick compared to Windows XP.

Slick, as in an ice ledge on a glacier's edge.

Aha! Thanks for the information!  ;D I still have not decided, depending on whether or not I qualify for the job I tried out for, but your info helped quite a bit.

this sander scamper guy really knows nothing about computers.

it's only because windows NT/2K/XP is so painful to run in anything but administrator mode that people have this backassward tendencies ...

First thing I noticed while operating a mac is the lack of a right mouse button.
Forget that =p