The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => Starbase Café => Topic started by: seankreynolds on January 28, 2005, 10:41:34 pm



Title: Arilou miniatures
Post by: seankreynolds on January 28, 2005, 10:41:34 pm
Mongoose publishing posted pictures of their new Babylon 5 miniatures. If you're interested in miniatures gaming at all or just like stuff that looks like it might be part of Star Control, check out the Vree Fighters, which look a lot like Arilou skiffs:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=903&qsSeries

(These little guys are each 10mm across.)

Other (25mm-scale) ships from that faction that are Arilou-appropriate are

Vree Varl Scout: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=901&qsSeries=

Vree Xor War Saucer: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=905&qsSeries=

Vree Xill Battle Saucer: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=904&qsSeries=

Vree Xarl Patrol Boat: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=978&qsSeries=


And if you're looking for other SC races (some of these are only somewhat similar, but beggars can't be choosers)....
Supox: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=985&qsSeries= or http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=976&qsSeries=

Mmmrnnhrmm: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=974&qsSeries=

Ilrath: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=955&qsSeries=

Chmmr: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=924&qsSeries= or http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=690&qsSeries= or http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=960&qsSeries=

Vux: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=855&qsSeries= (capital ship, larger in scale than the other minis listed here) or http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=963&qsSeries=

Syreen: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=958&qsSeries=

Yehat: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=926&qsSeries=

Earthling: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=894&qsSeries= or http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=893&qsSeries=

Ur-Quan Kzer-Za: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=888&qsSeries=

Shofixti: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=986&qsSeries=

Utwig or Androsynth: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=892&qsSeries=


I don't work for Mongoose and I don't own any of their stuff, I'm just a fan of painting miniatures and SC2. :)


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Death 999 on January 29, 2005, 01:16:50 am
Aside from the Vree, the resemblances are very passing. I can see more of the SC ships in the cover art for SC2 itself (i.e. not much) than in these miniatures.


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: seankreynolds on January 29, 2005, 08:45:44 am
No need to be a poop.
Also understand that these minis are unpainted; a good color scheme would go a long way to making them look more like the SC2 ships.


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Defender on January 29, 2005, 08:11:37 pm
nice, using Babylon 5 to promote sc2, when its very well known that this show blantingly ripped off the star control idea and tweaked it to there likening. i turn around, arms crossed, in the show of Klingon dishonor. may the stars never align themselves to show you the way home...good day.

~DEFIANT >:(


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: seankreynolds on January 29, 2005, 08:30:08 pm
Well, it wasn't so blatant that I ever made the connection, then again I never watched B5.

Wow, I'm two for two with rude people answering this thread so far, and the second one goes so far as to insult me, nice.


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Defender on January 29, 2005, 09:03:51 pm
its not you, really. its great you have an active imagination. yes i can see some(little) resemblance to what you see, but its... well check out this snip from online chat with one of the creators...

<Manta> Fwiffo: Has anyone ever brought up parallels between babylon 5 and Star Control?
<Fwiffo> babylon 5 causes a certain amount of stomping around the office screaming.
<Fwiffo> babylon 5 steals from us.  We steal from known space.
<Fwiffo> And Larry in known space steals from others.

so you see, even one of the creators(Fwiffo) had a hard time swallowing B5. we dont hate you or what youve done. but theres been alot of talk about the similarities between the two that your post is a hard reminder of the ones who get rich of someone elses idea, and the ones who get kicked in the butt.

i apologize for any and all rudeness. live long in geekness.

~DEFIANT


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: seankreynolds on January 29, 2005, 09:08:07 pm
... and if you read later in that interview, he mentions that he likes the arc episodes of B5, so it's not unmitigated hate.

In any case, I think that if you wanted SC2-style ships, these are a reasonable approximation. If you don't think that, don't buy 'em. :)


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on January 30, 2005, 03:35:54 am
Quote
Wow, I'm two for two with rude people answering this thread so far, and the second one goes so far as to insult me, nice.


Rude?
...er...
...er...
Methinks you're a bit oversensitive...


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Defender on January 30, 2005, 07:34:05 am
Ivan, have i ever told you how much i like that pirate flag of yours... im going through a pirate phase right now, movies, songs, Internet... just had to comment on that...sorry for the off topic, i now return you to regular schedule post.

~DEFIANT


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on January 30, 2005, 12:56:20 pm
Yeah, I know what you feel.
The flag came to be when I went through the same.
Have you tried some games? I recommend Sea  Dogs. There's also Pirates of The Carribean and Sid Maier's Pirates, but they're too  comic bookish for me

I also apologise for derailing the thread, still better this then a pillow fight  ;)


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Lukipela on February 02, 2005, 04:21:27 pm
*Hits Ivan with a pilow. Hard

Watch it you. A pillow may very well be the last thing you see.

As for the miniatures, nice. As for the unfriendliness, no it's not. It's opinions. Everyone gets to have some. As long as the discussion is civil its just that.


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on February 02, 2005, 07:13:21 pm
Quote
*Hits Ivan with a pilow. Hard

Watch it you. A pillow may very well be the last thing you see.


A pillow!
Thank you oh Enlightened One!
You have no idea how much I am in need of sleeeeeep...
....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: seankreynolds on February 02, 2005, 07:21:07 pm
Quote
As for the unfriendliness, no it's not. It's opinions. Everyone gets to have some. As long as the discussion is civil its just that.


Quote
As for the unfriendliness, no it's not. It's opinions. Everyone gets to have some. As long as the discussion is civil its just that.


OK, next time someone "makes the sign of dishonor in my direction" and hopes "the stars never align to show me the way home" ... I'll remember that's an "opinion."

May you wreck your car but walk away unhurt (and several thousand dollars poorer). That's my "opinion."


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Ivan Ivanov on February 02, 2005, 08:40:08 pm
Quote
OK, next time someone "makes the sign of dishonor in my direction" and hopes "the stars never align to show me the way home" ... I'll remember that's an "opinion."

May you wreck your car but walk away unhurt (and several thousand dollars poorer). That's my "opinion."


A bit childish aren't we comrade?
Yeah Defiant said some silly things, but later backed off, apologised and explained why he said what he said.
But why do you claim that D999 was rude is just beyond my understanding...


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Lukipela on February 03, 2005, 01:00:57 am
Quote


May you wreck your car but walk away unhurt (and several thousand dollars poorer). That's my "opinion."


Technically, I believe that is a wish and not an opinion. And they do say to be careful what you wish for child.

Now, if you had said "I think you deserve to wreck your car but walk away unhurt (and several thousand dollars poorer). ", that'd would have been your opinion. Then I'd ask you what you base it on. And if you had no valid reason, I'd still say it was your opinion and that you have every right to it, but I'd also make a nasty comment on the weight of an opinion based solely on emotion rather than fact. And on it would go.


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Defender on February 03, 2005, 04:40:19 am
again, i am sorry.

yes, i said some rude stuff, but i was a little bent at the idea that you were selling. babylon5 took from the star control idea. not the other way around. its the only reason you may see any similarities in its ships vs star control. while i do like both show and game. i found your post ironic in that since and felt a little angry about it . being mad and posting are not one of my strong points. i feel somewhat silly looking back at what i wrote. im usually a good guy to get a long with. can there be peace now?

man i suck at apologies as much as i do flames. i shall don the mask of forum posting shame.

~DEFIANT




Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Chrispy on February 03, 2005, 04:53:45 am
and all was well:P

*hits defiant in the face with a pillow*


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Defender on February 03, 2005, 09:35:22 am
ahhh yes... this takes me back...feathery goodness.

pulls out the atomic whopper pillow
ok...come get some... 8)

~DEFIANT


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Chrispy on February 03, 2005, 07:59:33 pm
*Creates a deadly pillow twister around himself, and charges at defiant*


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Defender on February 04, 2005, 04:11:02 am
swings the atomic whopper, striking the whirlwind, sending sparks everywhere. the recoil sends both flying backwards...

~DEFIANT


Title: Flightcontrol
Post by: Deus Siddis on February 12, 2005, 11:48:17 pm
I really like the starcontrol universe and all these great remakes. That aside, I think it is kind of funny that you'd all be fighting over how some TV show with '80s level CG is ripping off starcontrol.

I say this because. . .well Starcontrol 2 stole much from binary systems, in my opinion. What would the sequel have been, if not for Starflight?

Basically you could replace precursors with ancients, yehat with thrynn, supox with elowan, ur-quan with gazurtoid, kohr-ah with uhlek, spathi/umgah with spemin/teeelveee, umgah with dweenle, androsynth with mechans, melnorme with humna humna and zog fot pik with G'nunk (well sorta) and you would get Starflight, again.

Now, I'm not complaining as another starflight off shoot is just more territory, but It doesn't make sense to complain about how someone ripped off a ripoff. Bungie can't complain about anybody else without Blizzard complaining about them.

So I say, let's just sit in front of our ripoff-playing machines and kick ass!

En Taro Halo !!!


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Crowley on February 13, 2005, 08:00:18 am
Weird. I've played a lot of Star Control 2 and watched every episode of Babylon 5 and I never made a connection. *happily skips to another thread*


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Marr #235 on February 13, 2005, 10:38:58 pm
Um..  Okay, enlighten me.  What exactly is it that Babylon 5 'ripped' from Star Control, specifically, as opposed to from classic SF conventions in general?

I mean, yeah, I noticed the human freighter thing and the Vree saucers, but, y'know..  Classic B-Movie Flying Saucer.  Star Trek Cruiser.  Not exactly eleven secret herbs and spices territory here.

Besides which, every such clichéd image and name in SC2 itself is a good-humoured nod of recognition, right?  So why not take the B5 stuff in the same tributary light?

And in conclusion: Narn G'Quan Heavy Cruiser Mini!  Squeee!


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Defender on February 14, 2005, 02:04:44 am
the similarities are in idea, and not necessarily strait conversions.

1] there is a starbase in star control = there is a lone starbase in b5.
both are the center of activity in there reality.

2] the ur-quan fighting the kohr-ah = shadows fighting the vorlon. 2 advanced races going toe to toe in the galaxy at large. each having an agenda to there own, when other looses.

3] the arilou = vree. both an elusive species and almost identical ship design.

4] using advance technology from the ur-quan, precursors, arilou, to further the earthling cause and fight the ur-quan/kohr-ah = the people aboard b5 station, used vorlon/mimbari hi-bred technology to combat the shadows and protect b5. also on earth, they used shadow tech to upgrade the earth ships for combat.

there are other minor differences, but i will bore you with them. so in conclusion, mostly trivial simularties, but similarities none the less. while i dont see anyone getting sued for such, the question does have to asked... who borrowed whos idea? since sc2 came out first...one must draw their own conclusion.

~DEFIANT



Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Crowley on February 14, 2005, 05:27:33 am
I find it a bit of a stretch to call that ripping off SC2. 2) and 4) are rather common science fiction staples that have been around much longer that SC2. Another similarity that came to my mind was a small group combining the forces of several minor factions to fight against a powerful enemy, but that's also a common plot basis.

For 3) the Vree were very rarely seen and were never important for the plot. As Marr said, TfB didn't exactly invent the saucer-shaped spaceships. As a side note there was an alien species closely resembling in physiology the classic 'grays' which to my recollection were not the Vrees.

I find 1) having the weakest basis. Babylon 5 was a center of commerce and diplomacy pretty much from day one whereas the SC2 Starbase was a backwater outpost none of the big players really cared about anymore. The focus of action was always somewhere else.


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Defender on February 14, 2005, 07:42:39 am
Quote
I find it a bit of a stretch to call that ripping off SC2. 2) and 4) are rather common science fiction staples that have been around much longer that SC2. Another similarity that came to my mind was a small group combining the forces of several minor factions to fight against a powerful enemy, but that's also a common plot basis.


true, but how many science fiction shows do you know that share as many similarities as these two do?

Quote
For 3) the Vree were very rarely seen and were never important for the plot. As Marr said, TfB didn't exactly invent the saucer-shaped spaceships. As a side note there was an alien species closely resembling in physiology the classic 'grays' which to my recollection were not the Vrees.


no they didnt, the theory has existed long before both shows, so i have to agree with you. but both do include them in there show/game, and since im drawing connections between the two, they have to be included.

Quote
I find 1) having the weakest basis. Babylon 5 was a center of commerce and diplomacy pretty much from day one whereas the SC2 Starbase was a backwater outpost none of the big players really cared about anymore. The focus of action was always somewhere else.


true again, but without your base in the game, theres no way to get you rag tag fleet off the the ground...err...spacedock. so its a place that you need, otherwise your dead in the water. without b5, there would probably be a intergalactic war. so b5 has its value too.

really, its all in how you perceive your surroundings. do i believe the makers of b5 stole the ideas of star control? no, but there are so many simualrties, one has to ask, it could be possible. after all everything and anything is... its a big universe out there. one only needs to look beyond to explore it.

~DEFIANT


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Halleck on February 14, 2005, 08:49:52 am
I think that B5 draws some inspiration from star control in the same way that star control draws inspiration from star trek (avenger, cruiser) and from popular culture (penetrator, skiff and the arilou race), and Known Space as was mentioned in some chat with the TFB guys. Similarities can be drawn however you please, but it's pointless to get all pedantic about it or you'll wind up with something like this (http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-09-08&res=l).


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Defender on February 14, 2005, 10:16:25 am
hahaha, true that ;D

~DEFIANT


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Megagun on February 14, 2005, 03:04:27 pm
Conclusion?

All your ideas are belong to us.

--The End--
:P


Title: Backwards
Post by: Deus Siddis on February 15, 2005, 02:35:00 am
So it's something like this:

Babylon 5 from Starcontrol 2 from Starflight from Star Trek from Forbidden Planet.


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Death 999 on February 15, 2005, 05:45:01 am
You completely left out Larry Niven. That was major. You get AT LEAST the Spathi Safe Ones and the Dnyarri slave empire from his Known Space books... Perhaps quite a bit more.


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Baltar on February 17, 2005, 04:14:17 am
FYI both the creator of Babylon 5 and the creators of SC2 have made references to EE Doc Smith's Lensman series, which features a galactic struggle between two opposing superraces, the Arisians representing Good and the Eddorians respresenting Evil.  This series was written back in the 50's.  I'd expect this work influenced both parties...


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Death 999 on February 18, 2005, 07:21:30 pm
Yeah? Well HE stole from the Zoroastrians and Manichaeans!
;>


Title: Re: Arilou miniatures
Post by: Art on February 28, 2005, 07:33:16 pm
The twist, of course, being that in B5 and SC2 the two super-races are *both* presented as not being particularly nice, and the real good guys are the ones who resist both of them. Though it's to be expected in this modern post-Cold-War world that two giant races that use lesser races as pawns would both end up being unsympathetic. Then again, the Arisians in Lensman didn't seem all that nice to *me* -- no way I'd want to live in their utopian civilization.

The *real* twist is that B5 sort of presents the Vorlons and Shadows as good and bad guys at first and then starts to make you question whether the Vorlons are really bad. SC2 starts with the Kzer-Za as the just plain big bad guys and then starts to make you question whether they're really so bad with the introduction of the Kohr-Ah.