The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

Suprised nobody's done this one yet.  I'd have to say mine would be Unicron!

SKELETOR. Muahaha.

Actually, in terms of sci fi I would pick Khan.

Kahn, you Bloodsucker!!!


I'm gonna go with Vader.

Khan from Star trek II is rather funny. How he constantly is whining over his superior mind. He did see however that a big terraforming tool like the Genesis device could be also used as a really powerful bomb. And of course he flew a really beautiful (stolen) ship, the Reliant. His end is rather glorious, he decides to rather detonate Genesis inside the nebula and try to take Kirk with him than surrendering (and either get dropped of at another planet or spent the rest of his life behind a forcefield.) Second is Darth Vader. He's just got this attitude of don't mess with me. Though I think that it's a good advice to any imperial officers not to make too many promotions because if you're unlucky, you'll wind up having your airpipe squeezed for not cleaning your feet in front of lord Vader. And that guy from Star Trek Nemesis was really interesting, it was really great how he took the role as mistreated clone of Picard who needs the DNA of the original (and taking over the known universe in the meantime isn't so bad, isn't it?) Last on my list is the bad guy from Star Trek Generations (I like Star Trek in case you were wondering) He stops at nothing to get back inside the nexus, even if that means destroying the universe.

Duran Duran? The Alien?

I kinda like V'ger from StarTrek, but it's not really a villain.

No, I'd pick the Borg and Borg queen. The only reason I watch StarTrek is the Borg episodes.

Samir Duran was a human who'd been hit by an alien retro virus. He wasn't actually an alien, himself.

I think the reference was to the band "duran duran" and giger's alien.

So easy.. The Ur-Quan Kzer-za!

Utterly evil, yet they have perfect reasons to do whatever they do..

Not to mention that their voice gives me the creeps...

"I think the reference was to the band "duran duran" and giger's alien."

Oh. . .well then. . .never mind. :-[

For clarification:

Duran Duran (http://www.sixtiescity.com/SciFilm/Images/SF083.jpg) is preparing to 'play' Barbarella to death in the 'Orgasmatron'. A band named itself after the movie character.

The Alien (http://www.siggyweaver.com/photos/films/aliens/aliens050.jpg)

If I were a super villain who wanted to start a band, I'd call it Dark Energy.

Yey Unicron!

But I prefer Megatron. Ruthless, strong, a damn good leader when you look at his achievement list (conquering Cybertron), yet sometimes stupid and funny.

He defiantly got something for everyone ;)

Beast War's Megatron was great too. Actually it's hard to decide which of the two was better…

I have a hard time picking between the old and new Baltar myself ;D

The old Baltar sold out mankind in order to gain power, the new one screwed up in order to gain access to a cylon's  box.   :P  Mind you he didn't know that was Pandora's Box at the time.  Not sure if I'd call him a villan or just mental.  (missed alot of the show lately, admittedly though.  He might have tipped over the edge and I missed it)

I heard rumors that there's a future real-time Transofrmers(robotrikim :P) movie planned.

Hmm... Adelai Niska and Adrian Veidt.

This thread may be old news or whatnot, but I thought I might give my two cents.

My favorite SciFi villain - and, indeed, of anything ever (tied, perhaps, with Shylock from Merchant of Venice)- is Darth Vader.  Not only because he's big, scary, super-powered, merciless, and James Earl Jones, but also because he's more than one-dimensional.  He wants to make Luke join the dark side because it's the evil thing to do, and as far as he's concerned, he's all evil.  But he has some hidden emotion for his son that not even he's aware of...

... For the sake of Evil as EVIL is not why Darth Vader does what he wants to do, including wanting Luke to come to the dark side. Vader thinks the Galaxy can only be brought to peace by force, without an underlying consensus. To do that, one needs the mentality of the dark side.

He thinks he's doing the right thing most of the time, but gets a little carried away. He's in denial. It's when the emperor begins electrocuting his son he realizes A) that the ends don't justify the means, and B) the emperor is being unnecessarily sadistic, so peace is probably not going to come from this method, period. His reasons for using the dark side are thus converted into revulsion, and he has a change of heart.

And all of that is just based on the original trilogy. Episodes 1-3 just back that interpretation up.

"He thinks he's doing the right thing most of the time, but gets a little carried away. He's in denial. It's when the emperor begins electrocuting his son he realizes A) that the ends don't justify the means, and B) the emperor is being unnecessarily sadistic, so peace is probably not going to come from this method, period. His reasons for using the dark side are thus converted into revulsion, and he has a change of heart."

This is what you get when you have a kohr-ah answer questions about human emotion. Let us put away our cold, textbook approach to psychology.

Yes, by the end of the episodes 1-3, anakin is crushed. Everyone he cared about has been lost to chaos and so the only things he has left are his anger, which keeps the pain at bay, and his crusade against chaos. He's become very good at all this by E4, as he's been doing it for at least 15 years. But then he realizes that luke is his son and some of his old emotions resurface. After all, in the beginning everything he did was to protect the people he cared about. But he's still absorbed in the darkside, so he tries a middle route (without being complete aware of it) by suggesting to the emporer that luke be converted to the darkside, not killed. In the end however, luke refuses to turn and anakin must watch his son die at the hands of his master. In this moment, all the pain of his failures to protect his mother and wife boil up to the surface, and far overpowers his anger and dedication to the emperor that now promises to destroy what he loves.

Anakin does not do much out of logical reasoning, he does what he does because of his feelings. This is especially true in the end.

Fine, whatever. But I note that you agree he's not doing evil for the sake of evil.

Don't feel bad, I have a degree in Vaderology.

And I thought it would be hard to get a job with a philosophy degree.   ::)
Hmm, Sci-Fi Villain;  The Enemy from the Riftwar Saga books, or for a more traditionally sci-fi version:  The Martians from War of the Worlds (an alien whose motives are alien, and is considered evil only because its motives involve human death, dismemberment, or discomfort).

For a more humanlike villain, the Tripods from the White Mountain series of books.

I just thought of two more, albeit less substantial than Vader:

The Triffids from... well, I think they speak for themselves.

and...

well...

KERRIGAN >=D

EDIT: Awesome.  Fifth post and I've stirred discussion!

I can't really get into Kerrigan, since she's just so... immature and stupid. She could do a lot better, and I can't see how she really got that way. Maybe a prequel showing how Mengsk manipulated her would help.

Starcraft Ghost, perhaps?

"I can't really get into Kerrigan, since she's just so... immature and stupid. She could do a lot better, and I can't see how she really got that way."

(Dong) Round 2. You know, I minored in Kerriganology.

Ok, Kerrigan does not have a severe emotional/psychological reason for going bat shit. She was betrayed, but only by her commanding officer. What sent her off the cliff was the evolutionary retro virus. It makes you more simple minded and dampens your morality and judgement, like alchohol. And once you're infested, you will have no intention of losing "the power, the clarity."


"Starcraft Ghost, perhaps?"

I think that's supposed to overlap with the original starcraft and broodwar. I wished they hadn't made it so you could only play a ghost. It would have been better if they made a Starcraft version of a Battlefield 1942 type game. You pick your type of soldier zergling, hydralisk, mutalisk or marine, firebat, ghost or zealot, high templar, dark templar. Then you have evolutions, vehicles, possessables in the form of the heavier starcraft units lurker, ultralisk, guardian, devourer or vulture, goliath, siege tank, wraith or dragoon, archon, scout, corsair. It would be great.

The single player you can only play as a ghost, but in multiplayer mode, you have a choice of a ghost, marine, firebat, and light infantry.  And only ghosts and infantry can use vehicles.  No Zerg or Protoss though...

Yes, but that is still missing control points, bot armies, and zerg/protoss in multiplayer. And no warthog ripoff pick-ups, I want Wraiths!

Deus_Siddis: To beat the dead horse, I have majored in Starcraftology. Some of the things you have stated regarding this topic seem grossly inaccurate.

Just what exactly is this "evolutionary retro virus" thing you keep babbling about? You say that both Samir Duran and Kerrigan have both gone through this. Are you referring to Zerg infestation?

SPOILERS BELOW





At the beginning of the Brood War Terran campaign, Duran introduced himself as an agent of the former Terran Confederacy. However, by the end of the same campaign, he reveals that he is actually working for Kerrigan, and is thus an infested Terran.

There is a secret level (between the last two BW Zerg missions) in which Zeratul happens upon a strange outpost where various "Hybrid" creatures are being held in stasis. Samir Duran reveals that he came here as an agent of some greater unnamed force to unleash these Hybrids. While he in the guise of an Infested Terran, he is in fact completely alien as far as the known Starcraft universe is concerned.

The level is called Dark Origins. Look it up. (http://www.google.com/search?q=Starcraft+"Dark+Origins")






SPOILERS ABOVE

So, can you explain yourself?

"Just what exactly is this "evolutionary retro virus" thing you keep babbling about?"

Ok, ok, "Evolutionary Virus". There, now are you happy? It's pretty damn obvious that it's a retro virus, methinks.


"There is a secret level (between the last two BW Zerg missions) in which Zeratul happens upon a strange outpost where various "Hybrid" creatures are being held in stasis. Samir Duran reveals that he came here as an agent of some greater unnamed force to unleash these Hybrids. While he in the guise of an Infested Terran, he is in fact completely alien as far as the known Starcraft universe is concerned."

Cool, it sounds like the rumors of the Xel'Naga's demise have been greatly exagerated. Unless that stupid old Overmind made it back from the void (perhaps with infested Tassadar).


"So, can you explain yourself?"

:'( Yes. . . I can. Back in the days of Starcraft, I had not a computer with enough ram or a fast enough processor to run this sacred game. So. . .I. . .bought the N64 version. The secret level of which you speak was not a part of its torchered campaign. Now you know the truth. Ridicule me if you think it best, but I have already suffered so much. En Taro Starcraft. :'(

You know, a virus which rewrites its target's DNA does not need to be a retrovirus.

Retroviruses carry RNA which they reverse-transcribe into DNA in the host cell.

Other viruses just carry DNA around.

I suppose it is possible that some viruses carry only RNA, which they use for production directly in the cell, possibly with direct copying to speed up the process.

Also, given the gross morphological changes to Kerrigan, I suspect that the cocoon's actions were a heck of a lot more drastic than simply a viral infection.

Nonetheless, after the death of the Overmind and Kerrigan's freedom, she was basically an independent agent. Why did she take such glee in pointless betrayal?

"You know, a virus which rewrites its target's DNA does not need to be a retrovirus.
Retroviruses carry RNA which they reverse-transcribe into DNA in the host cell.
Other viruses just carry DNA around.
I suppose it is possible that some viruses carry only RNA, which they use for production directly in the cell, possibly with direct copying to speed up the process."

I think the difference is a retro virus alters a cell's core DNA, while your everyday cold and friends like to use their DNA to directly order the host's mechanisms to build more of them. So if you want to alter your DNA because you want to stop worrying and just be a happy little murderous insect, go with a retro virus (assuming you don't have any good nanites around).


"Also, given the gross morphological changes to Kerrigan, I suspect that the cocoon's actions were a heck of a lot more drastic than simply a viral infection."

Agreed, Humans have a linear growth cycle. Once we're mature, there's no large scale changes to be made (growing claws, bat wings, scaly hair, etc.) It would take more than just a code switch, so that chrysalis was probably more than just a cell.


"Nonetheless, after the death of the Overmind and Kerrigan's freedom, she was basically an independent agent. Why did she take such glee in pointless betrayal?"

As mentioned before, the alterations affect your judgement. Remember, the Overmind never planned on being sucked into another dimension or whatever. Kerrigan has no programming for an Overmindless scenario. She's just going nut's until Duran can take control of the Koprulu sector.

Hmm... well, it appears that only retroviruses bother to integrate their resulting DNA into the host genome. The Wikipedia vaguely suggests that DNA viruses just dump it into the cytoplasm and hope for the best.

links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus


As for judgement... basically the only conclusion is that she is a severely broken person who hurts others. She is only slightly more a villain than Oasis or Dr. Crabtree (both from Sluggy Freelance, in case you were wondering), and probably less than the Ur-Quan, let alone Kohr-Ah.

"Hmm... well, it appears that only retroviruses bother to integrate their resulting DNA into the host genome."

I probably should have mentioned this before, but I have a degree in virusology.


"She is only slightly more a villain than Oasis or Dr. Crabtree (both from Sluggy Freelance, in case you were wondering), and probably less than the Ur-Quan, let alone Kohr-Ah."

She was betrayed by her own kin, ripped apart at the cellular level over months, rebuilt into a form so hideous that light bends around her, and telepathically enslaved so that she could be used as a weapon against her own people. The Kohr-ah had to build things and then acupunctured their way to freedom. Why are they so much more justified in their actions? Kerrigan isn't even trying to cleanse the galaxy, she is just playing games.

Because the Kohr-Ah are the DESCENDANTS of those who were so enslaved.

Are you agreeing with me, then? Being the descendant of someone who was tortured does not hurt you. If the UQ in SC2 are just horrible liars and were never actually alive during the reign of the Dynarri, why are they so tortured. Why have they had it so much harder than Kerrigan?

I think the Ur-Quan (Kzer-Za) are the nicest villains.

Yea, they like to hold fuzzy little animals and give them huggie-wuggies.

And fondle their bones. How cute.

You have it backward. Kerrigan was knocked out of the running because she was too broken. The Kohr-Ah are sufficiently functional for it really to be their fault. They really are villainous.



That would be the Kohr-Ah.

I like the Kohr-Ah too.
They're second best  ;D

"You have it backward. Kerrigan was knocked out of the running because she was too broken. The Kohr-Ah are sufficiently functional for it really to be their fault. They really are villainous."

Yes, but before you said about Kerrigan: "I can't see how she really got that way." So was she broken, then, or not? If she was less beat up than the kohr-ah and is of a sounder mind, would she not be the most villainous of the two, by you logic?

By saying that I did not in any way mean that she had not been beaten up! Look at her!

The cause of my not knowing is not that I could not find a cause, but rather that I could find too many causes.

It could have been the cocoon's modifications. It could have been ghost training. It could have been the nightmare in the cocoon before the Overmind came. It could be an accident. It could have been a psychic seep from the Overmind itself.

But the kohr-ah do not have many reasons, either. They were enslaved, GMOed and tortured just as Kerrigan was. How is it that you have come to understand these caterpillars of oblivion but not the queen of blades?

kohr-ah hands down. but come to think of it i like any villain.
i hate "heroes".
i guess thats why i love the movie "secret window" because technically the villain wins, that movie makes me happy.

I'm not sure is been stated before, but Shodan...

and with my entry, a snippit from an article I read

--
She's a sinister sister to 2001's HAL, capable of scaring the daylights out of most players. As the chief villain in Origin's System Shock, she's Orwellian in scope, always watching and calculating, and equipped with a voice that could make your toes curl. Shodan was more than an evil machine; she was a force to be reckoned with.

And the readers say:

"Shodan far surpasses the nefarious and evil quality of your other villains. I was weaned on Doom, and thought SS was just another shooter. So I bought it. I will never forget my shock, fear and dismay as Shodan sussed my plans to dismantle her electronic core and sent an ambush of mechanical servants through cyberspace to kill me. Never before has a villain had such personality and presence. My whole view of SS changed at that moment. I would sit up past midnight, crouched in a corner, fearing if Shodan knew my location. I snuck through halls in darkness, waiting and dreading the mocking face of Shodan to appear on a broken terminal. Even now I know I did not truly defeat her, and that soon [with the release of System Shock 2] once again we will do battle!"

"Shodan impressed me from the beginning as truly nonhuman and utterly ruthless in pursuing its goals. Even in writing this, I hesitate to apply a male/female/human pronoun to this AI. In fact, I do not consider Shodan evil, but completely amoral. Good and evil were not considerations evident in its decisions. The design team put together a game thick with atmosphere which reeked of the menace of Shodan."

"I still have shivers running down my back every time I remember that disembodied modulating voice in the dimly lit corridors of the station... and if you listened carefully those sound effects that accompanied it could be heard as screams and whimpers of tortured souls."

"When I first heard Shodan taunt me in System Shock it was one of the very few times in my game-playing or even horror-movie-watching history that I felt absolute fear."

"It has to be Shodan. She's a perfect example of how dangerous self-conscious machines can be if they escape human control. She is omnipresent, knows everything and controls everything. A real big foe which is immortal to any weapon. The ultimate enemy!"

"This bitter evilness (or the other way around) combined with the feeling of being watched all the time is what raided my dreams for quite a while!"

"Shodan was by far the best villain ever, and System Shock the best game ever. But I couldn't help but want more at the end. All you do is jack into cyberspace and fire your pulser at this cone-shaped rutabaga thing, while being spun around in circles. When you finally defeated her, which you could never tell how close you were to doing, you were dumped into a rather average cutscene. I was really hoping for something along the lines of 2001, where Bowman pulls all the chips out of the console, all the while HAL is saying 'I can feel my mind slipping away!' until finally, 'Hello, I am the HAL 9000 computer, Dr. somerussianguy taught me a song, it goes like this, "daisy, daaaiissy..."' Or something like that."

"One of the few games that creeped me out so much I had to turn it off a couple of times. Shodan was the perfect evil bitch."

"Getting e-mails from Shodan was one of the freakiest game experiences I'd ever had."
--
http://www.gamespot.com/features/tenspot_villains_rc/page6.htm

sorry, never played sytem shock.

im stickin with the kohr-ah...




"You are your own worst enemy."

As I already said, these are not the same individuals who were enslaved, genetically modified, and tortured by the Dnyarri -- they are their descendants. They are less broken, more person. This makes them more personally responsible for their actions -- for their CHOICE to pursue the Eternal Doctrine.

Darth Vadar

Doctor Doom. He was the basis for Vader.