The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The upcoming Ninendo Revolution is said to be able to download past console games (such as Nintendo's NES, SNES, and N64 along with third party titles). Ur-quan Masters was a console game for the 3-DO. Problem is that it is hard to find a 3-DO today along with a Star Control 2 copy. Ur-Quan Masters is a great free release, but nothing beats playing it on console. Let us download it for Revolution!

Legally, if Ur-Quan Masters can be downloaded from the Internet here, why not on the Revolution? Make it for free and you'll have a new generation of Star Control 2 players.

It would be interesting if Ur-Quan Masters could be adjusted to play over the Net with Revolution as well. Toys For Bob is very good with making games for consoles. All this one has to do is be adapted.

The only real issue I see might be the game size. The original Star Control 2 was installed via floppy discs. The additions of the 3DO ship movies and the voices for the aliens could be removed to help space wise with no loss to the game play.

Think of the children, Paul and Fred!! They must know who Fwiffo is, free the Shofixti maidens, and apply sweet gaming goodness to their lives. Unleash Star Control 2 again!

An XBOX version of UQM is currently under development, and there was a guy who wrote a version of super-melee for the GBA a while back (although as I understand, the framerate was pretty low since it was early on in development).
I haven't heard about the "revolution" platform... but if someone figures out how to put linux on it, then UQM could potentially be played  ;)

Oh, for fuck's sake!  Can we please have a moratorium on these  "please port the game to platform X" posts?

Every time a new flavour-of-the-month platform comes along, somebody comes along and says the exact same thing, and the answer is always the same.  If you want to see the game on [fill in the platform], your options are:

• roll up your sleeves and do it yourself
  
• get the money together to fund a development effort.

Note that "make a post to a random Internet forum demanding that others do all the work for you without any compensation" is not listed.  Do I really need to explain why that is?

tecnically paul and fred arent the ones in charge of UQM and what platforms it will support.



ditto

and also, i hate "new" nintendo, its all for the children now.
and they screwed up gamecube. i will never buy a console that uses ONLY cd's(dvd?) that are 8cm(i think). whats the point of a next generation system if it doesnt support dvd's and audio cd's?

Hey numbnut, listen up. I am talking to an official release, not to little Internet boys like you. I am referring to the big boys, Fred Ford and Paul Reiche along with the Toys for Bob crew, not begging to Internet geeks to do something. But you have your head so far up your butt all you see is you. Well, keep it there because then at least you'll see your inner self.

The Revolution is supposed to allow you to download/purchase old console games for the NES/SNES/N64. The details or the payment of this is not known. However, Sega has expressed interest in this business model as it has lots of games it could "sell" as downloads (one interesting effect of this business model is that all those 'roms' out there become illegal).

One of these downloads could be Star Control I from Genesis.

After all, it is already ported. If Sega adapts its old games to this new download model the Revolution is supposed to set up, we easily could be playing Star Control 1 on a current console.

Star Control 2 was already on the 3DO and, especially if the 3DO platform game companies subscribe to this model, Star Control 2 could be downloaded. The biggest limitation with the later games, of course, is space. CD sized games won't work in this model, but Star Control 2 originated on diskettes so it could lose a lot of 'filler' (like the voices, 3DO ship movies) and work.

Poor Decode, I feel for you. I'd be pretty darn embarressed now, having a temper tantrum, crying on my knees, begging for "random" posters to stop demanding that "others" do all the work. Waaahhh. It's a shame you couldn't realize that if a fan did exactly what I described (the download version for Revolution's retro game/download business model), the fan would go to jail. This has to be official, hence the petition.

Toys For Bob just released Madagascar for all systems, including Gamecube. I know that they get caught up in projects, but with their talent, how long would it be to port over the 3DO's SC 2? SC 1 from Genesis may very well become available. By porting it over, it would showcase Toys for Bob's most famous product but also add in a new (albeit small) stream of cashflow, provided Accolade allows them to sell it.

No 'box' versions. No linux. Absolutely nothing from the fans. This has to be official with Toys for Bob and they are the only one with the rights to do this.

PLEASE let us download SC 1 (Genesis) and, if possible, SC 2 (3DO) for Revolution!

Wow... don't know where to begin. There I was thinking that you might actually be a reasonable individual, so I tried to propose some alternatives (and wasted my time it seems).

Making personal attacks on 0xDEC0DE is not going to get you anywhere. All you've done is made yourself look childish. He has a right to be pissed, he's been here a helluva long time and is responsible for numerous patches and the Mac OS X distribution of UQM.

FYI, internet 'petitions' are worthless. Also FYI, Fred and Paul released the source code to sc2 under the gpl... that's why the UQM project exists. The game content is still under vanilla copyright with permission to distribute it with UQM. All accolade owns is the trademark "star control".

Too bad for you, but the only development that is now occuring for sc2 is the uqm project, which is completely run by fans.

You really seem to have no grasp of how things work around here at all. My advice for you is to just leave (not like that's going to happen), you're gonna get roasted pretty soon.

Oh, and "internet roms" are and always have been illegal.

Also- where did you hear that genesis games would be supported? Genesis was a sega platform.

Just because it will be able to support old nintendo games doesn't mean anything. It's not like you can just burn the 3d0 version of SC2 to some sort of mini dvd and expect it to play on a sega console, they are completely different systems.

Wow, there must be a stupid virus on this forum. Why don't you people think for a moment... "Gee, Nintendo is introducing a new business model to take advantage of old games. Maybe we could get Star Control to be available." Rather, you're so dense you just bash and don't see anything. If Sega goes along with this idea too, Star Control 1 will likely be available.

UQM isn't relevant at all in this. What matters is the core games released for the consoles with SC 1 for genesis and SC 2 for 3DO. From what I know, this must be done through Toys for Bob. All these 'retro games' must have the permission from the original companies, it seems.



I'll apologize, Paul and Fred, that your fans don't have any feel for business models, I'll do my best to educate them.

OK, gentlemen, it works like this:

1) Make something fun
2) ?
3) Profit

The Gamecube is a success in every way you look at it. Nintendo made money from the Gamecube. Microsoft does not make money from the Xbox, hence its market share is highly temporary. From what I know, the Playstation also sells at a loss but makes it up with the games. While Gamecube might have come in 3rd place in America, it clobbered in Japan and did well throughout the rest of the world. Nintendo made quite a bit of money because it had a good business model.

Buying a console for the DVD or audio cd capabilities is stupid. DVD and audio players are very cheap. Also, with not supplying those features, it keeps the console much simpler, cheaper, and easier to develop for. If you want a console that has 'uber' entertainment gimmicks gimmicks, use your pc. A next generation console could include a toaster but what good is that? As for the 'kid' image, I'd say thats a bit underserved, since the exclusive Gamecube titles are high quality. From what I've noticed the 'heart and soul' gamers tend to stick with Gamecube (or with Gameboy Advance, etc.) while the rest of gamers use their consoles 'every now and then'.  If I remember correctly, the DS is still outselling the PSP.

"But the POWER of the Next-Gen systems, Pik. OMG!!!11"

These 'multi' processors look nice. Too bad much of it will be worthless. Playstation 2 had a similiar multi engine part but most games were developed to go through one end. The same will be true for the Cell and for whatever Xbox 360 calls its processors. In the end, its going to be about how the games look and play. Playstation 2, for example, was the weakest of all three systems last generation because of this ("But, OMG, it has a DVD player I never use!" Great, genius, be a sucker for buying stuff you don't need. Have fun with your $400 playstation 3, bahaha)

But none of that matters. What is important is that there is a new business model that brings back all the retro games for consoles. All Star Control fans ought to push for Star Control to be available in this new business model no matter what console it is. If Playstation or Xbox adopts a similiar business model, we push for it there as well.

Though I am mildly stunned to the hostility of the idea. Isn't more Star Control a good thing? Isn't more money for Toys for Bob a good thing? Isn't more children learning about the adventures of Fwiffo a good thing?

According to the Internet Ego Game (tm), I guess not.

If you don't want this to have anything to do with UQM, why are you posting it on the UQM forums?

Go write a letter to accolade/TFB if you want to have any effect.

Time to add another fool to the list. I apologize lurkers that these posters do not read or comprehend. For example take the following:



He could be Jesus risen from the dead and it wouldn't matter. Look at his knee-jerk whiney response. It deserves to be made fun of.



I doubt we'd see UQM released as 'free ware' if Fred or Paul didn't think there was any fans out there. (They have other great games but Star control 2 has the biggest cult. Hence, the reason it is open source.)



I knew ALL of that. But you assumed I didn't, why? Because, like decoder, you just assume things about posters you're not familiar with.

I don't know if UQM could be released in the download model of Revolution. If all the old Genesis games do, then we can expect Star Control 1. Star Control 2 (yes, the name and trademark) can be released if 3DO games are made available.

This is why it has to go through official channels, legalities, etc. This is why Decoder was 100% wrong with his little rant accusing me of demanding him to do stuff. I don't want him to do anything.



Too bad for you, but I'm not mentioning any development. I am talking about BUYING a digital format of Genesis Star Control 1 or 3DO Star Control 2 over a retro download business model that is supposed to be introduced with Revolution.



You really seem to have no grasp of how to read or how to properly respond to a message. My advice for you is to apologize (not like that's going to happen with these 'uber' UQM egos running around), and actually talk about the subject.

Let us return to the subject of this thread, which is the release of Star Control (both games) for download over Revolution's download system (which may apply to the other systems if they adopt such a model).

After all, playing Star Control 1 and 2 on a console (especially with people, hard to do on a computer) would be wonderful. Let's push for it.



Yes, but there has been no significant source of 'income loss'. Now those roms are part of a business model, meaning they are no longer abandonware.



From Sega. Sega has expressed interest in Revolution's download system. It wouldn't be hard to play Genesis titles either.

Sega is interested in this because 1) Sega has a lot of old titles 2) Could use those old titles into assets, creating more cashflow.

Sega may not do it. But it is certainly within the realm of possibility. 3DO's games are more complicated but its still perhaps possible.

Because I want other people to know of this possibility. I think a lot of fans like me would love to see the old Star Controls to be available to download for the new consoles.

It would...

1) Make fans happy
2) Put more money in Toys for Bob's pocket

What's to lose?

Fair enough. I apologize for assuming that you were ignorant of sc2's copyright status. I also admit that I misinterpreted your first post, although I think that it was a reasonable conclusion that you were referring to a port of the Ur-Quan Masters, especially since you say things like "It would be interesting if Ur-Quan Masters could be adjusted to play over the Net with Revolution...".

Now perhaps it's your turn to apologize for name-calling and making personal attacks on members of this forum.

As I said, an internet petition will get you nowhere, and harassing sc2 fans isn't going to get them to 'sign' it. Actual, unique paper letters have far more impact than even a paper petition with real signatures can have.

If a genesis emulator of sorts is eventually included with the revolution system, then I'd reccomend making a reasonable, written request to the parties involved (accolade/TFB). SC1 is probably your best chance, although the source code was lost, so that means accolade (now owned by atari) would have to give permission to use the star control trademark, and they would certainly want a cut of whatever profits were to come of this (since the star control trademark is on the rom's splash screen).

Derek Smart, is that you?

Actually these multi core chips are going to kick ass, because all the software will be designed to fully use it's power, unlike multi core CPU chips which I haven't heard of one piece of software to use the technology, sures lots of OSes support it, but mostly it's good for multitasking on computers.... I think photoshop can use more than one processor... not sure if cores are different though


Anyway I'm going to be sad if Nintendos new venture is going to be 1 chip and 1 core... because this new technology allows for a breakup of the calculations, and if I'm correct you can program software to run more than one calculation at once with multi cores, so there is no linear path that it must take... calculate AI, Physics and Graphics all at the same time, saves CPU time....


But um whatever floats your boat...  ::)

So far what I've seen PS3 has more power than 360, but 360 seems to have more online support (free?), I haven't heard shit about nintendo other than their games I can pick up at the swap meet for like 35 cents

*LARTs Pik*

Okay, let me ask you these questions beforehand.

1) DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PROGRAMMING?
2) DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HOW CONSOLES WORK?
(those had to be in all caps, yes, because those two are important)
3) Do you know how succesful the 3dO was?
4) Do you know what it takes to port a 3dO game to a Revolution game?


Okay. Here goes my explanation of that all..
Think of the 3dO (a VERY unsuccesful console. In fact, the only somewhat popular games were SC2, and some sort of capture the flag 3d tank game (I forgot the name)... Adding 3dO support to a console that doesn't support it yet is just stupid, especially considering you'd be only doing it for 2 games.. Ooh yay.. If you want to do that, you've got to ask, say, 100 euros for each 3dO game.. Great stuff!

Also, that something will support Genesis doesn't mean it supports 3dO.. It's the same reason why gamemakers make XBOX and PS2 and GAMECUBE versions. They just aren't compatible with eachother!!!

Okay, time for some visualization, maybe you'll know what it takes then..

Think of the 3dO as a console that speaks Japanese.
Think of the Revolution as a console that speaks Latin.
Now it's YOUR task to convert Japanese to Latin.... Have fun!

In other words, it's useless to port SC2 to the Revolution, unless you either do it yourself and publish it for free (like the great Xbox dudes have done!), or get around a million dollars, force Nintendo to add 3dO support, and sell SC2 for 100 dollars each...

Also, don't harass members who DO know more than you about a given topic (*cough* 0xDECODE)

Thanks for your time. And good luck with further dreaming.

Pik: This is not the way we do thing around here. You don't go calling people names or make other personal attacks around here. You either play by our standards, or you go find another playground. This is your first and final warning.

Toys for Bob is working exclusively for Activision these days (see this thread (http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1115130359)), while they still have the rights to Star Control (except for the trademark). Anything SC related from them isn't going to be happening in the near future.

Slightly related, it is possible to play an original version of SC on a game console. FreeDO (http://www.freedo.org/), a 3DO emulator, should run SC2. Authorised (by the console makers) releases of it for both the XBox and the PS2 are available.

Well, it's good that you've set the tone for the discussion up front.  There's not a lot of point to reading the rest, and certainly not a lot of point to responding to this, but a few quick points before I ignore this thread completely:


No, what you're doing is tantamount to masturbating in public: it might be fun, but it doesn't accomplish anything, and onlookers will do little but point and laugh at you.  This forum (and for that matter, this project) are not run, sponsored, nor affiliated with Toys for Bob; it is the forum for The Ur-Quan Masters, a fan-run project.  If you're trying to get a hold of Toys for Bob, I'd suggest that you track them down and call them childish names instead of bothering us.

In addition, "Star Control" != "The Ur-Quan Masters".  Since the very title of your post asks for UQM to be ported to some new platform, and you're posting your request to the UQM forums, how can you reasonably expect anyone reading your post to interpret it any other way than how we did?


"Star Control" != "UQM".  Accolade/Infogrames/Atari owns 100% of the copyright on the old Starcon ROM, and Crystal Dynamics/Eidos owns the copyright on the 3DO port of SC2.  TFB's approval is not in any way necessary for such a public release to happen, although asking them first is a gentlemanly thing to do.  But if you're really after a public release of the original games, and not the modern UQM port, then you're very, very much in the wrong place.  I'd suggest getting a hold of Atari's and/or Eidos's legal departments if you're concerned with obtaining a legal ROM distribution.

Besides all of the legal stuff, what would the practical reasons to port this game to the Rev?  Currently, this game is available for free for most computer operating systems.  It's very stable and the source code is free to download and modify for your own personal use.  The UQM team is a hard working bunch that is dedicated to squash every bug they find.  So what would be the advantages to porting this game to a next generation console?  I personally would rather see a brand new high quality Star Control game made for the next gen consoles then just another port of a game that we already got for free.

ditto