The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => Starbase Café => Topic started by: Baltar on August 09, 2005, 02:24:16 am



Title: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Baltar on August 09, 2005, 02:24:16 am
My nominations:

1) The Battle of Endor (Return of the Jedi)
2) The Battle at the Ragnar Anchorage (Battlestar Galactica 2003 Miniseries)
3) The Battle in the Mutara Nebula (Star Trek II)


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Defender on August 09, 2005, 03:56:07 am
the final battle, in the dominion war, at cardassia.(star trek: deep space 9)


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on August 09, 2005, 05:06:12 am
1) Khan's Initial Engagement (Star Trek II)
2) The Battle Over Endor (Return of the Jedi)
3) The Borg Invasion (Star Trek: First Contact)
4) The battle against the mind demon (Forbidden Planet)
5) The final battle of the starcraft campaign, level 30, Overmind (I think that was its title?)


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Baltar on August 09, 2005, 05:29:57 am
1) Khan's Initial Engagement (Star Trek II)
...

Heh.  I'm actually trying to be inclusive of the entire movie in my original post--surely the entire engagement lasted a few hours and took place both near and in the nebula....


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: harth1026 on August 09, 2005, 03:09:00 pm
- Robotech Episode 27: Forces of Arms
- Star Wars Battle of Endor
- Star Trek The Battle at Wolf 359
- One of the first Babylon 5 battles with the Shadows that ended as a draw


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on August 09, 2005, 04:43:13 pm
What is the Dominion and what are Shadows?


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Death 999 on August 09, 2005, 04:48:40 pm
The Dominion is a giant political organization run by shapeshifters on the far side of the galaxy from Earth, in the Star-Trek-verse. They can access our part of the galaxy via the wormhole near Deep Space 9.

The Shadows are an ancient race in Babylon 5 which are fairly central to the plot.

My favorite space battles?

Battle of Endor

The battle in which the Shadows destroy the Narn fleet. It's actually fought at long range! Now that's cool.

Mutara Nebula.


Title: The Science of Science Fiction
Post by: Deus Siddis on August 09, 2005, 05:16:06 pm
"The Dominion is a giant political organization run by shapeshifters on the far side of the galaxy from Earth, in the Star-Trek-verse. They can access our part of the galaxy via the wormhole near Deep Space 9."

They never had the dominion in TNG (I never watched DS9--no engines). Weren't the borg supposed to be on the other side of the galaxy? Is the dominion supposed to be powerful enough to fend off the borg?


"The Shadows are an ancient race in Babylon 5 which are fairly central to the plot."

Are they "humanoids" with some cheesy make up, or are they something more "shadowy"?


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Death 999 on August 09, 2005, 05:18:06 pm
The Dominion, the region containing the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, etc., and the Borg form roughly an equilateral triangle.

The Shadows and the other ancient races are not at all humanoid. The shadows come closest*, and they're giant spider-like critters walking on six (or so) pointy legs and triangular heads, and they're usually invisible. This should give you an idea how different the others are.

*(except for the First One, and he may not really be restrained by form much)


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on August 10, 2005, 01:24:44 am
"The Dominion, the region containing the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, etc., and the Borg form roughly an equilateral triangle."

So then how does the Dominion stack up to the Feds, Borg, Klingons, Romulans, etc.?


"The Shadows and the other ancient races are not at all humanoid."

Oh, I thought B5 was that show with the aliens that had those greyish frills on the backs of their heads (but were otherwise human), and was mostly DS9 with X-wings.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Halleck on August 10, 2005, 06:13:53 am
Nobody mentioned the battle of Yavin!

Although my vote goes to forbidden planet, except for the fact that it's not really a space battle there. So yeah, maybe endor.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on August 10, 2005, 06:22:22 am
"Although my vote goes to forbidden planet"

Damn me if that movie doesn't still create one creepy atmosphere. No overdone CG sequences, just invisible, unstoppable death.

That movie used to scare the shit out of me when I was a kid.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Death 999 on August 10, 2005, 05:01:28 pm
So then how does the Dominion stack up to the Feds, Borg, Klingons, Romulans, etc.?

Well, they get into a war and the alliance of the Klingons and Federation are roughly evenly matched against them. Things go back and forth when they are totally cut off from reinforcement through the wormhole.


Oh, I thought B5 ... was mostly DS9 with X-wings.

You mean, DS9 was B5 without Star Furies... or a complicated long-term plot which was thought out in advance... (DS9 and Bab 5 showed up at roughly the same time, both appeared in 1993)

BTW, Star Furies kind of look like X-wings, but aren't otherwise at all similar. First, they maneuver with Newtonian dynamics. Their pylons are for extra torque. The weapons fire is not from the 'wing' tips. Also, they are short and stubby, not long.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: harth1026 on August 10, 2005, 05:42:13 pm
Yeah, that was one of the things I truly hated about Star Trek.  They always contradicted themselves.  In one DS9 episode, they say that Captain Kirk died in a transporter accident.  But in the Generations movie, they show that he originally died from getting fried by a deep space ribbon.

In B5, the story line stayed consistent throughout the series.  One good example of this is the story of B4.  They mention it's disappearance in the beginning, then they had an episode of it returning, and finally, there was an episode that explained exactly it's purpose and all the wacky things that happened in the previous episodes.  Good graphics or not, the story is what kept me watching this one.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Sander Scamper on August 10, 2005, 10:50:04 pm
Easy, the best combat sequences is Endgame, the second last episode of season 4, I'm pretty sure, of B5.

The thing I like most about B5 combat is that you actually can tell, just by instinct, know how much damage a particular shot did, its not like Andromeda where every single battle the freaking ship gets blown to pieces, I mean, come on, missiles that hit don't even leave scorch marks, yet the inside of the bridge has shrapnel flying everywhere.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Captain_Smith on August 11, 2005, 06:30:35 am
"They never had the dominion in TNG (I never watched DS9--no engines). Weren't the borg supposed to be on the other side of the galaxy? Is the dominion supposed to be powerful enough to fend off the borg?"

My understanding of the disjointed Star Trek world (any kind of consistency is ridiculous - Kirk supposedly got warped from the transporter accident to that space ribbon thing - that's how they bend the consistency, just change things to make it ridiculous), is that the Federation, Klingnons, Romulans, etc, are in the Alpha Quadrant.  The Gamma quadrant is where that DS9 wormhole goes, and the Delta Quadrant is where the Borg are (and Voyager - that was a large part of that show).

The thing about the Dominion was it was supposed to represent a freedomless expressionless thing - a lot of Star Trek in the post-Roddenberry age (TNG Season 2 or 3?  I can't remember exactly when in the show he died) was intended as a political statement.  Basically, you had the genetically engineered fighters controlled by drugs (Jem-Hadar I believe?), the genetic clones that led those (the Voorta) and all in control by xenophobic paranoid masters that want to control anything else not like them (the shape-shifters).  Basically how they got by was by technology that equaled the Federation, but much more ability to be sneakier and the cloning (who cares about losses of your troops when you can just grow more).  Basically the Borg were one political statement about technology and losing humanity, the Dominion was another about the individual losing rights over the powerful.

Personally I think DS9 had a deeper, more enjoyable story to it than TNG ever did.  A very worthy competitor to Babylon 5, and actually I find a shortage of people that would say that B5 was better than DS9, honestly.  The only thing it had against it was it bucked the Star Trek trend and tried to show stories that didn't involve starships and transporters all the time, and especially didn't show a paradise of good people who would never hurt a fly and would be totally honest and truthful all the time.  Unfortunately that turns people off of the show right away, but to me, DS9 just seemed a lot more real to me.

While we're asking questions and mentioning space battles, I would add the ones they did in Voyager with the Borg, Voyager itself, and Species 8472. (The Scorpion Part I, The Scorpion Part II)  While the show was very notable as the one that introduced 7 of 9 (Jeri Ryan) it also was awesome to see their picture of an alien race that could kick the Borg around like it was nothing (and making them have to crawl to Janeway for help).  Of course, there were a couple of others in that series I'd mention as worth seeing, this show set is probably the big jaw-dropper. 

(Part 1, starts: we see three borg cubes)
"We are the Borg, resistance is futile."
(Three rays come from camera prospective, blowing each up)

Only gets better from there. :)


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Death 999 on August 11, 2005, 05:43:04 pm
But, you see, that's what screwed up Voyager. It was unwise to nerf the Borg.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: harth1026 on August 11, 2005, 07:11:42 pm
While the conflict between Voyager, the Borg, and Species 8472 was great, I think they should have milked it for what it was worth.  Borg space was so vast, it would have taken them ten years to cross it.  Yet they only did two episodes crossing Borg space because one of the characters was able to bend space.  Hey, if she was able to do that, why not go the extra half galaxy?  I believe they should have made at least one complete season of voyager's journey through Borg space with a good solid story.  Learning how to avoid the Borg and 8472, making new technology to fight them, that sort of thing.  But no, they didn't.  And to add to the crap that was the Voyager, in a later episode they turned the all powerful 8472 into weaklings when they all tried acting like hunams.  I hate it when a show has something good and they turn it into crap.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Captain_Smith on August 11, 2005, 07:54:55 pm
Yep, the Post-Roddenberry writers definitely took everything for all it was worth and ruined it.  They were floundering when Voyager hit and got even worse with Enterprise.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: GeomanNL on August 12, 2005, 03:53:57 am
Battles on TV .. well, I liked the ones in the Star Wars movies. The start of  episode 3 was the best one that I have ever seen.

However, I think battles in games are far superior to what you can experience by just watching a movie.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on August 12, 2005, 06:03:21 am
"However, I think battles in games are far superior to what you can experience by just watching a movie."

Then name some. Games are entertainment too, they deserve your respect. :(


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: GeomanNL on August 12, 2005, 11:36:55 am
I loved the huge battles between small robots, in Total Annihilation.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Death 999 on August 12, 2005, 04:20:11 pm
Battles on TV .. well, I liked the ones in the Star Wars movies. The start of  episode 3 was the best one that I have ever seen.

Aside from the absurd concentration on the boring and idiotic buzz-droids, and the near-total lack of any exposition of their tactical situation?

These guys are jedi! Just TK the droids off your freaking wing, that's the end of the problem, go on to something else!


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: GeomanNL on August 12, 2005, 04:42:11 pm
Okay, let me put it in this way: I was rather impressed by alien fleets that were engaged in combat while in orbit around a densely populated world. I don't think any other movie has shown something that comes close to that.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on August 12, 2005, 05:38:53 pm
I agree, that whole scene was very well done and unique (and isn't that one of the main points of science fiction, to show you amazing things that you will probably not get to see in your lifetime?). Though I don't see the point of robots that drill holes when you have seismic charges.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: GeomanNL on August 12, 2005, 06:10:33 pm
"Though I don't see the point of robots that drill holes when you have seismic charges."

Neither do I ... maybe it's because it has a higher replay value than a laser or an explosion. You can't have a jedy standing on his ship, waving with his light-saber and deflecting heavy lasers from battle ships. There's not much you can do against a bomb either (although Neo did very well in the Matrix 3). And for the rest it's probably exaggerated to make it funnier than necessary. But it's just a guess, I really don't see the point either ;)


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on August 13, 2005, 12:53:19 am
"And for the rest it's probably exaggerated to make it funnier than necessary."

Then perhaps they should have been attacked by bio-mechanical pez dispensers, armed with electromagnetic staple accelerator guns.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Baltar on August 13, 2005, 01:20:37 am
Then perhaps they should have been attacked by bio-mechanical pez dispensers, armed with electromagnetic staple accelerator guns.

That would have been an improvement ;D  Having this goofy robot do MORTAL COMBAT!!!!! with R2D2 on the wing of the ship was just too damned much.  It just interrupted whatever pacing the battle otherwise had.

The battle over Coruscant looked great, to be sure, it just lacked any kind of form.  Just oodles of eye candy--too much so in my opinion.  It's one of the least dramatic space battles I can think of.  (and yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of other crumby ones too, but they didn't have the big bucks or SW label either).  It's a shame because the Venator Star Destroyers look freakin' fantastic.  I'd also liked to have seen some Victory SDs.  Oh well...maybe they are saving that one for the TV show or the Pre-prequel :P

Oh, and showing the 'greatest starfighter pilot in the galaxy' accidentally blowing his wingman's wing off was stupid and (yet another) slap in the face of the original films.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on August 13, 2005, 06:17:35 am
"Having this goofy robot do MORTAL COMBAT!!!!! with R2D2 on the wing of the ship was just too damned much.  It just interrupted whatever pacing the battle otherwise had."

And if dorky can opener droids can pass through them unhindered, why the hell do they even put "diflector shields" on their ships?


"The battle over Coruscant looked great, to be sure, it just lacked any kind of form.  Just oodles of eye candy--too much so in my opinion.  It's one of the least dramatic space battles I can think of."

I don't think it was meant to be too dramatic. Remember in E3, the droids armies were not the real enemy, they were just the vehicle the true threat used to hijack the loser old republic. At this point, the soon-to-be-vader's skills were not defeatable by lowly grunt-bots. Making the struggle against the trade federation too dramatic, would underscore the real story of this episode.


"Oh, and showing the 'greatest starfighter pilot in the galaxy' accidentally blowing his wingman's wing off was stupid and (yet another) slap in the face of the original films."

Hey shit happens, even to the best of us.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Slylendro on August 15, 2005, 07:07:50 pm
DS9 had some cool battles against the Dominion.
B5 Interludes and examinations, the battle where Vorlons engage Shdow ships in Brakiri space.
SW episode 3, the beginning battle. The first scene was about 1 continuous minute.

I can't remember one episode where the borg weren't  humiliated  when they encountered Voyager.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on August 20, 2005, 06:58:19 pm
I have to go with the Return of the Jedi space battle over Endor.
Especially when the two fleets first come together and you
see wave after wave of TIE fighters driving in at the Rebels. That
would be some scary ... crap.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on August 26, 2005, 07:51:02 pm
Oh and I forgot (how could I?) the original Star Trek battle
where the Enterprise first encounters the Romulans in
Balance of Terror.
The effects weren't much, but it was mostly a tatical battle and
mind games. Very well done, I thought.
Sort of like watching a WWII sub vs. destroyer.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Edward on August 27, 2005, 06:17:16 am
the scene in the italian movie "Battaglia" where the combined inner and outer system fleets put aside their dispute and team up against the incoming aliens has to be the best.

there's been good stuff in like Babylon 5 and Star Wars, and some B5 stuff and later SW stuff has better fx, but Battaglia wins hands down for pure grandeur, tension, realism, and emotion

i mean, how can you top fourteen fighters stafing an alien cruiser with operatic quality music, almost perfect miniatures.  . . the first battle scene, the aliens coming in at a single file, silhouetted against the sun, and then they slowly take formation, like something unfurling its wings or even like oil spreading across water, until the sun is completely blotted out, captain tornelli whispering mass with just the hum of the engines. . .

i don't think we'll ever get anything like that, frankly, because the notion of scifi as art, mixed with the whole spaghetti western mode, was such a unique atmosphere.  now you just have scifi porn, basically, explosions and the biggest possible capships and whatnot


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Zeus on August 27, 2005, 08:20:43 am
Holy shit!  I thought I was the only person on this forum who'd ever seen Battaglia!  Right on!


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Zeus on August 27, 2005, 07:56:41 pm
BTW -- for those of you who haven't had a chance to see Battaglia -- I assume almost everyone -- here's the description from Philip Strick's fantastic book, Science Fiction Movies (that's where I first heard of Battaglia):

"Battaglia (1984) **** 1/2

BATTAGLIA, a space opera extraordinaire, was shot over two years for a cost of over four billion lire (which is to say, a few million dollars).  Undeniably inspired by both the Spaghetti Western and Italy's recent history, BATTAGLIA does seem a little dated: 1980's Italian haircuts were already goofy in the United States, and these days look downright absurd; the notion of a Marxist-Capitalist conflict over the planets is a bit of a stretch today; and the use of miniatures rather than computer effects is a relic of a bygone era.  BATTAGLIA also has its share of absurd science, such using antigravity bombs to turn Jupiter into a nebula-like gas field from which to fight a guerilla space battle.  But all this can be forgiven.

BATTAGLIA, simply put, has the greatest space battles outside of STAR WARS, some of the most memorable characters since A CLOCKWORK ORANGE, and a speech worthy of the Bard (Capt. Pirello's "A River of Embers" call to battle).  Although its politics are dated -- as best I can tell, it's almost a World War II plot of capitalists and Marxists teaming up against implacable evil -- they are much deeper than anything you'd find in American science fiction movies (though the story seems loosely inspired by some Philip K. Dick stories).

Unfortunately, BATTAGLIA is almost impossible to find due to a string of marketing disasters, starting with a horrendous British dubbing and translation (including dubbing the fantastic choral music during the huge battle) and going through a deal with Sony to distribute solely through Betamax.  The result is that this movie lacks even the cult following it deserves.  But if you can find it subtitled, it's a must see."

FWIW, I caught it at some show Aint It Cool News was putting on at the Alamo Draft House.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Baltar on August 28, 2005, 12:45:33 am
I'd really like to see this...know of any way to get a copy?


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Zeus on August 28, 2005, 02:30:05 am
I have no idea.  I saw the dubbed version in a theater in Texas three years ago as part of an event Aint It Cool News was putting on.  You might be able to find it on Ebay, but it sounds like all there'll be are betamax tapes.  Maybe it's possible to find a VHS bootleg, but I don't know.  A quick Google search turned up nothing.  Sorry.

You could try getting in touch with the people at AICN?


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Chaotic Evil on September 16, 2005, 12:17:07 pm
B5 Call to Arms

the final fight in earth's orbit.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: wyrmul on September 19, 2005, 10:23:38 am
Hmmm, Endor was where my facination with spacecraft furballs began.  It is classic.

Babylon 5 Season 5, A view from the gallery.  Not so much for the battle itself but from Bo and Mac's commentary on the battle.  And a good explination for fireballs in space.

SG1 Season 7, Lost City pt2.  The battle over Antarctica.  F-302s and the Promethius vs. Al Kesh and Deathgliders with orbital bombarment by a dozen or so Ha'Taks.

While B5's Into the fire is cool, with the 55 megaton wake-up calls, Some of the Best B5 combat in my opinion is Lines of Communication, where Delen kicks some drack ass, and you see the whitestars "Skindancing".  And Shadow Dancing, where the Alliance make their pre-emptive strike against the Shadows, and kick some major ass.  Though I'll agree that Endgame, where Clark is deposed and The Long, Twilight Struggle, where the Narns fight the Shadows are pretty badass as well.



Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: jack_cloudy on September 22, 2005, 09:37:53 pm
I'm especially fond of the battle in the nebula of Star Trek 2. It really managed to build up the tension, seeing those two ships flying around, practically blind and without their shields while trying to blast each other into pieces. Though there were some less good moments, such as the whole 2D thinking bit with take us down 1000 metres and they won't know what hit them. And the fact that they tried to protrait Chekov as some sort of superhuman gunner who could hit the Reliant when nobody else could while all he did (that I could see) was pushing a big button.

The battle in the Star Trek movie with the bird of prey that could fire while cloaked was nice also, but only because I think the Excelsior looks brilliant. The weird thing here was that they could make a torpedo locate the bird of prey with some simple and quick modifications while the big E's sensors were unable to do that. (you would think that the ship based sensors were superior to those found on a torpedo)

As for Star Wars, the Endor battle was really great, though it seemed a bit slow at times thanks to the scenes with Luke and the Emperor put in between, but those enhanced the whole plot, so no big loss.

That's it. I haven't seen that many space battles.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on September 23, 2005, 05:01:18 am
I get the impression that in Star Trek VI,
where they rig the torpedo to hunt the
hidden Klingon, they don't actually enchance
the sensors. I think what they (Spock and
McCoy, if I remember) did was to change
its flight pattern. The idea would be to
prevent it from using its sensors, instead
flying blindly in a circular motion until it
hit something.
They knew a ship was there, in front of them,
just not exactly where. Having a torp fly around
until it hit something would seem....logical.

Some of those battle shots were excellent too. The
torp blowing through the Enterprise's hull, the
Klingon Captain's declaration of "I'll blow you
out of the stars!"
Or Sulu's "Let her fall apart!"...still gives me
tingles.
It's been ages since I watched any of the old
Star Trek movies (and 6 wasn't my fav) but they
had some good moments.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Baltar on September 23, 2005, 05:17:09 am
Granted its been a few years since my last viewing, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong.  I think it was Uhura that brought up the fact that they were carrying 'all that equipment to catalog gaseous anomalies' because 'the thing has got to have a tailpipe.'  Spock and McCoy then went down to the torpedo bay and stuck this equipment into a torpedo so that it could home in on whatever the Bird of Prey was emitting.  I think also there was some reference earlier in the movie about some anomalous readings coming from below the ship at the time of the attack on the Klingon diplomatic envoy that might be connected to this, but again its been some time since I last saw it.

....and yeah, some good FX shots in that fight.  I'd say 6 was among my favs along with Wrath of Khan and The Motion Picture.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Kaiser II on September 23, 2005, 08:10:55 am
I get the impression that in Star Trek VI,
where they rig the torpedo to hunt the
hidden Klingon, they don't actually enchance
the sensors. I think what they (Spock and
McCoy, if I remember) did was to change
its flight pattern. The idea would be to
prevent it from using its sensors, instead
flying blindly in a circular motion until it
hit something.
They knew a ship was there, in front of them,
just not exactly where. Having a torp fly around
until it hit something would seem....logical.

Some of those battle shots were excellent too. The
torp blowing through the Enterprise's hull, the
Klingon Captain's declaration of "I'll blow you
out of the stars!"
Or Sulu's "Let her fall apart!"...still gives me
tingles.
It's been ages since I watched any of the old
Star Trek movies (and 6 wasn't my fav) but they
had some good moments.


Actually, they put probe sensors into the torp so it tracked the cloaked BoP's exhaust.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on September 23, 2005, 03:34:34 pm
Yeah, but like jack said, the ship's sensors should have been able to track the trail and then they could have phasered where it starts.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: jack_cloudy on September 23, 2005, 08:04:50 pm
Ok, here's a theory. It's been years since I saw it, so I could be wrong. What if the sensors of the Enterprise were damaged? I only remember seeing lots of torps blasting holes in the saucer (that makes me think that they could have finished the Enterprise off a lot quicker by just bombing the bridge. oh well, Klingon targeting systems have never been that good anyway, :D) but what if  the sensors had been damaged?
I always thought that they were placed in the blue glowing dish on the engineering hull, but some wires linking the sensors (or at least those that could have been used to track the bird of prey, visual and stuff seemed to be fine) to the computer might have been fried. Though it is odd that they never commented on it in my memory.
That leaves us with the Excelsior. The only theory I can come up with her (it is a stretch, but I can't think of anything better) is that that torp that hit her caused a malfunction in the shield system which in turn caused a power surge to knock out the sensors that just happened to be the one that could track teh bird of prey.
Or (I can get a better theory, yay. :D) the Excelsior just didn't had the right gear for it in the first place and was more suited to blowing up stuff it could plainly see.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on September 23, 2005, 09:37:14 pm
Maybe the Enterprise's sensors, while plenty
powerful, were not tuned to pick up
Klingon exhaust. Perhaps the equipment would
take too long to rig into the ship's targeting
sensors. Heck, maybe using those gas
sensors requires disabling the sensors and
rebuilding them. In that case it would make
more sense to take out the old torpedo targeting
stuff and put the new ones in.

Or maybe the writers were tired and wanted something
more dramatic than the Enterprise targeting some
exshaust and blowing up the enemy.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Baltar on September 24, 2005, 01:37:04 am
I think the obvious explanation is that the equipment only works of extremely short distances so that the torpedo had to 'sniff around' to eventually find the target.  That would rule out setting up the ship with said sensors because then they'd have to drive around until they'd practically collided with the target.

But then an even better explanation:  WHO THE FRAK CARES!?!?!!


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on September 24, 2005, 02:35:22 am
Debating si-fi is a time honoured form
of Time Wasting. It's comparible to
political debates, engaging in coversations
on political ideaology and playing solitaire.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Deus Siddis on September 24, 2005, 04:54:31 am
Only with Solitaire, you don't have to listen to the other idiots talk.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Captain_Smith on October 03, 2005, 06:19:29 pm
But, you see, that's what screwed up Voyager. It was unwise to nerf the Borg.

I was watching a ST:TNG re-run, realized something, and thought of this thread....what made me realize this is the show happened to be the one where they wrote Ro Lauren out.  What happened in the process?  Picard and the Enterprise got nerfed.  His big plan to wipe out the Maqui got spoiled by her...

And I got to thinking, and I honestly can't think of any other show in any of the series where the main characters got nerfed in any way (Original Star Trek, TNG, DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise)...so I would expect it if they were to put the Borg up against Voyager for Voyager to nerf the Borg...

The last scene of the TNG show I saw was a classic too.  Riker comes in, really tip toes around Picard (here's my report sir), acting like he's protecting himself.  Then the camera pans to Picard with this look on his face like he wants to tear the ship apart in a rage.

Classic because it was so unique and so good.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Arne on October 03, 2005, 11:34:06 pm
Check out the finnish movie 'Star Wreck' (free to DL). It has a huge battle between StarTrek ships and Babylon 5 ships.

The Battlestar Galactica battles are pretty good, especially the flak scenes.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Death 999 on October 05, 2005, 08:19:53 pm
But, you see, that's what screwed up Voyager. It was unwise to nerf the Borg.

I was watching a ST:TNG re-run, realized something, and thought of this thread....what made me realize this is the show happened to be the one where they wrote Ro Lauren out.  What happened in the process?  Picard and the Enterprise got nerfed.  His big plan to wipe out the Maqui got spoiled by her...

I think you misunderstand the nature of the word 'nerf'. It means to retroactively change something so it is less powerful, or to make a new version of an old thing which is less powerful.

Like, you could nerf the Kohr-Ah by making the FRIED do 1 damage per puff instead of 3.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Death 999 on October 06, 2005, 08:04:38 pm
OK, I watched Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning.

That has to have been one of the best space battles ever made!

Wow.

I'm not so enamoured of the film as a whole (too depressingly incompetence-strewn) but those space battles were awesome. WIth one exception: if the twinklers weren't effective against the Excavator, why did they keep trying?


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: jack_cloudy on October 06, 2005, 09:11:00 pm
I still haven't got a chance to see it. (maybe next week) But here's a  reason I've picked up watching the older Star Wrecks. Pirk isn't exactly know for using his brains! (actually, he is better known for not using them! ::)) And maybe they didn't had anything else. Apart from Twinklers and Lightballs, I have yet to see other P-fleet weapons.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Death 999 on October 07, 2005, 08:45:52 pm
Well, yeah, but it seemed that they fired the twinklers at the Excavator even when the rest of the fleet was intact. I would have mopped up the rest of the fleet, THEN figured out what to do with the flagship.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: jack_cloudy on October 13, 2005, 07:28:25 am
Good, I finally saw the movie. I guess they weren't under strict orders (,,Kill, kill, kill!" ,,Ignore the previous order.") and basically all ran around blasting at stuff (with the exception of Fukov.) As for firing at the Excavator while they were close, I bet they were hoping to actually hit a weak spot in the armour. The guns might not be made of the anti twinkler stuff. I also remember seeing a lightball knock out a chunk of the back of one of the big wings. Hitting the internals that became visible there with Twinklers probably would have allowed them to dig deeper. Most ships are though on the outside, soft on the inside.

And there are tons of ways of killing the Excavator that don't involve swarms of Lightballs (or beer to knock out the controls ::)). Ramming them with the Kickstart is one way, but why not drag Babel 13 over for a really big club ;D? The defense grid was deactivated anyway (otherwise they couldn't hide behind it.).

While the battle was fantastic, the overwhelming amount of incompetence is rather depressing.

And a last thing. I think they actually went to an ice age in the future instead of one in the past. I thought I could see the remains of the p-fleet station, which wouldn't be there if it was the past (maybe humanity blew itself up, completely.) So, sorry Info, but your plan won't work.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: Death 999 on October 13, 2005, 08:37:24 pm
I thought that 'future' part was just a mistranslation. Otherwise, the cold is already getting to Info's circuits.


Title: Re: Favorite Space Battles
Post by: aireoth on October 14, 2005, 01:22:42 am
Favorite space battles, I think Freespace takes the cake, just the whole game, from cinematics to the dog fights, it was truely spectacular. And fighting in hyperspace at the end against that mammoth ship was cool (I hid in its launch bay for a little).