The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: ambrsia on September 28, 2005, 05:23:39 am



Title: scII redux?
Post by: ambrsia on September 28, 2005, 05:23:39 am
does anyone rekon it would be possible to merge the sc2 unvierse with a game engine like elite 2?

elite 2 had a great engine but no real story.

good idea?

it's just that ive been looking at http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/fan/3drender13.shtml

and tbh why couldnt we make a souped up edition of it?


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Captain_Smith on September 28, 2005, 05:35:12 am
Great, let us know when you have it finished.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: ambrsia on September 28, 2005, 05:43:33 am
i was thinking a game like bridge commander could be converted?


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Vee-R on September 28, 2005, 04:52:55 pm
Great, let us know when you have it finished.

Haha, this forum really cracks me up sometimes.... I don't think I've seen any thread making a suggestion, a proposal, or even the most abstract idea, without something like this cropping up as the second post exactly. It's like clockwork.  ;D


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Captain_Smith on September 29, 2005, 02:54:08 am
Great, let us know when you have it finished.

Haha, this forum really cracks me up sometimes.... I don't think I've seen any thread making a suggestion, a proposal, or even the most abstract idea, without something like this cropping up as the second post exactly. It's like clockwork.  ;D

I think a lot of people are long on ideas, like they expect someone else to do it.  So it's grown for that to be habit.  If their idea is so great in their own minds, they can either do it themselves or gather up other like-minded people and be involved.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Vee-R on September 29, 2005, 06:02:58 am
I think a lot of people are long on ideas, like they expect someone else to do it.  So it's grown for that to be habit.  If their idea is so great in their own minds, they can either do it themselves or gather up other like-minded people and be involved.

True, there are a lot of those. But, in addition to its original intent, this type of reply has long since become a kind of forum tradition. ;)

(Besides, sometimes the very attempt of gathering up like-minded people is misinterpreted as "expecting someone else to do it"... I remember posting a rather elaborate idea on here, saying that I'd be happy if someone who found it appealing would be willing to work with me on it, only to be met with severe blasting - I think the premise was that since I had all the necessary skills but programming, then I must've been looking for others to "do my dirty work ", or somesuch.  But, I digress - it's all a matter of converging one's expectations with reality.)


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Captain_Smith on September 29, 2005, 02:25:18 pm
(Besides, sometimes the very attempt of gathering up like-minded people is misinterpreted as "expecting someone else to do it"... I remember posting a rather elaborate idea on here, saying that I'd be happy if someone who found it appealing would be willing to work with me on it, only to be met with severe blasting - I think the premise was that since I had all the necessary skills but programming, then I must've been looking for others to "do my dirty work ", or somesuch.  But, I digress - it's all a matter of converging one's expectations with reality.)

Yeah, I've seen that too.  There's a difference though between "I have this idea" and "I have this idea and am working on it, but I need x, y, and z.".  The first usually gets met with what was said in the second post.  The second hasn't in quite a long time as far as I've seen.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Ben1 on September 29, 2005, 10:07:50 pm
Yes Im also tired of every "wouldnt it be cool" idea getting shot down.  Why cant you just say yes, that would be cool or no, I dont like that idea.  Instead of just  put up or shut up.  What cool ideas have you put into code Captain?


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: 0xDEC0DE on September 29, 2005, 10:56:55 pm
Yes Im also tired of every "wouldnt it be cool" idea getting shot down.  Why cant you just say yes, that would be cool or no, I dont like that idea.
Because "gee wouldn't it be cool if the game had giant robot spiders and mechas fighting on the rainbow worlds lolololomgwtfbbq" is tantamount to masturbation.  Especially if noone is willing/able to do anything about it.  Ideas without action are less than worthless, and people around here generally have little patience for them, myself included.

Instead of just  put up or shut up.  What cool ideas have you put into code Captain?

I can't speak for him, but I've done a few things for the project:
Code:
$ grep Nic ChangeLog
- Nicer title image during intro, from Nic
- Installation routine for MacOS X, from Nic.
- Lots and lots of dialog fixes, from Nic.
- Some speech is dependant on whether spoken voices are on, from Nic.
- Attempting to click the screen pops up an error message, from
  Nic, heavily modified (dodge on #533) -Michael
- Added missing Tanaka battle portrait images (new artwork; oldcap) and
  minor fixes to other shofixti images (bug #183), from Nic
- Mycon captain portrait finally fixed (bug #183), from Nic
- Can now switch mod->ogg in intro/outro player (thanks Nic), and
  mod<->ogg everywhere in general -Alex
- Guard access to the Clock so that accessing it is a no-op when the game
  isn't actually in progress (bug #678), from Nic
- Separate 'ask for fuel' player responses for Mercury and Luna missions
  (bug #716), from Nic
- Sa-Matra portrait now fills the portrait space (bug #514), from Nic
- Enable the other insults against the Mycon (bug #559), from Nic.
- Version number in the main menu does not blink anymore when the
  menu selection is changed (bug #672), from Nic
- Don't allow the reply "Symbionts, how interesting!" in the Supox
  conversation until they mentioned they were Symbionts. (bug #528),
  from Nic
- Not initialising the various systems when -h/-? is supplied (bug #656),
  from Nic
- Cocoa hooks for MacOS X, from Nic
- Speech .txt and .ts corrections, from Nic. - SvdB
- Resource units given more obviously when ordering a probe to
  self-destruct (bug #586), from Nic.
- Shipyard "Combat Energy" changed to reflect the recharge rate (bug #522).
  Also, some cleanups. Thanks and apologies to Nic. - SvdB
- Talking Pet .txt file corrected to match the .ogg files,
  and talkpet.ts corrections, from Nic
- Fixed blue comms screen problem (bug #363), from Joel Holveck & Nic
- Automatically adding an icon for Darwin builds, from Nic
- Fixed various odd behaviors when loading from HyperSpace (bug #587),
  from Nic and Michael
- Space marines die in a self-destructing Scout (Bug #445), from Nic
- Added the -l option to produce logfiles (bug #560), from Nic
- Zoq-Fot-Pik speech properly vertically centered (bug #579), from Nic
- Updated .cvsignore commands, from Nic
- Better-looking slave shield (bug #32), from Nic
- Reports SDL version on startup (bug #520) - Mika,Nic
- Fuel usage on planet landing is now reported correctly on all situations
  (bug #556), from Nic
- Syreen don't rejoice until victory truly is theirs (bug #451), from
  Nic
- Syreen ships become available when Talana says they are
  (bug #264); from Nic, Alex
- Fix colour cycling in the roster screen (bug #279), from Nic
- New main menu graphics from MarkVera, Paxtez, Nic (bug #393)
- Removed a place where you could ask for repairs when you shouldn't
  (bug #432), from Nic
- Commander Hayes explains his predicament before you get the option to
  rescue, closes #366, from Nic
- Flashing rects are no longer constrained to even-numbered pixels on the
  y axis; fixes bug #255, from Nic
- AWARE_OF_SAMATRA flag is now written as well as read (closes #113),
  from Nic
- Fix for mycon portrait (bug #183), from Nic
- Utwig shield now pulsates properly (bug #269), from Nic
- Vux warps in close (fixes bug 93) -from Nic
- Version # is now printed in the main menu, from Nic
- Shipyard/Outfit screens now use larger PC graphics;
  Outfit blueprint is properly aligned; from Nic
- Graduated colours for crew in shipyard, from Nic
- Added stat data in outfit screen (use --font=pc) - from Nic
- Added vertical alignment for subtitles (text runs off screen fix)-from Nic
- Updated infinity text/symbol for RUs - from fOSSiL, Nic
- Minor fixes for pc-fonts (Outfit screen, gradient color swap) -by Nic
- Minor fixes to PCMenu by fOSSiL, Nic, PhracturedBlue
- MikMod now loops modules correctly (OpenAL), from Nic

I've also got these extra features and bugfixes (http://www.submedia.net/uqm/differences.html) that I've made available outside the official tree.  I don't tend to waste my (and others') time spouting off about it on the forums, though.  "Doing something" is far more rewarding than "talking about doing something".


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Captain_Smith on September 29, 2005, 11:37:12 pm
 What cool ideas have you put into code Captain?

Nothing with this project, because it's so unstable (and the core coding team policy so far).  Once it hits 1.0 and diversions from the basic SC2 game are accepted, I have a couple of ideas, once I get the time.

But I do have others totally unrelated to SC2 and gaming in general out there and in process.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Captain_Smith on September 29, 2005, 11:40:31 pm
Ideas without action are less than worthless, and people around here generally have little patience for them, myself included.

"Doing something" is far more rewarding than "talking about doing something".

Exactly.  Ideas especially spouted off in fora are absolutely worthless...just as worthless as what this thread will ultimately be to history.  Ideas require action.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: meep-eep on September 30, 2005, 01:05:07 am
Once it hits 1.0 and diversions from the basic SC2 game are accepted, I have a couple of ideas, once I get the time.
I think you have the wrong idea; the UQM project is not going to accept new game ideas, even after 1.0. It's possible that there would be a spin-off project with extras, but none of the current core team (including myself) seems to be interested in being involved with that.
Though everyone can make a spin-off, even now. But as you said, internals will change, so an adaptation  made against the current source will (depending on the modifications) need maintenance to keep it working when the source is updated.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Captain_Smith on September 30, 2005, 04:15:57 am
Quote
Though everyone can make a spin-off, even now. But as you said, internals will change, so an adaptation  made against the current source will (depending on the modifications) need maintenance to keep it working when the source is updated.

Of course.  But why would I want to spend my time trying to reprogram / adapt something to each new version of the source that comes out?  There's the issue.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Francois on September 30, 2005, 07:36:21 am
this is so funny -- captain smith, he is totally humiliated, everyone sees he is the idle boaster.  it is so fun to watch.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Ben1 on September 30, 2005, 10:26:17 am
Why dont we make a sticky and call it "Wouldn't it be cool if..." where all these ideas can be posted.  Then, people like Capt. Smith can choose not to go in if post like these bother him so much.  It seems better than fighting all the trolls anyway. 


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Arne on September 30, 2005, 02:23:07 pm
^ Seems like a nice idea. The thread needs to be titled 'post your kneejerk ideas', 'quick ideas deposit' or something clear. Such a thread might be useful or fun even if none of the ideas are realized.

Here's 'my' suggestions to start with:

+ Online play

+ Multiple ships in melee

+ SC1 tactics (SC1+2 hybrid) or RTS elements

+ Handheld version (DS,PSP,GPX2)

+ 3D version, possibly using existing engine (TC/Mod)

+ Graphics overhaul

+ Plugin-able new species

+ Bigger or random starmap

+ More artifacts to find with energy scan

+ Finite amount of enemy ships (with consequences when depleted)

+ More powerful _insert ship_

+ SC 2.5 (Some gameplay tweaks, new story, new species)


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on September 30, 2005, 05:42:16 pm
Perhaps this is a little off-topic, but it seems to me
that it should be pretty easy to keep a fork of UQM
up to date with changes as they come out in UQM.
Source-wise, I think either patches or cvs could be
used to keep compatiblity with forks and the
original.....as long as those changes aren't directly
conflicting.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Novus on September 30, 2005, 08:54:02 pm
Perhaps this is a little off-topic, but it seems to me
that it should be pretty easy to keep a fork of UQM
up to date with changes as they come out in UQM.
For a small set of changes (especially ones that fix bugs or add features), it is not too hard to maintain a parallel version of UQM and update it with patches made to the main UQM tree. For example, I keep a copy that has the starmap search patch, ship spin video support and some minor bug fixes. For minor changes like this, CVS works fine with no additional trickery; it just makes the changes to my copy whenever I update.

The problems start when two different forks start developing an aspect of the game in different directions. For example, if you start adding plot items to UQM right now, you'll have to rewrite them when UQM is restructured for easier modding, remove the additional stuff or leave the modding support out of your version (which will probably make it even harder to keep the two versions in sync featurewise). The more two forks diverge, the harder it is to apply patches from one to the other (especially large patches).


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Captain_Smith on October 01, 2005, 06:51:55 pm
Quote
The problems start when two different forks start developing an aspect of the game in different directions. For example, if you start adding plot items to UQM right now, you'll have to rewrite them when UQM is restructured for easier modding, remove the additional stuff or leave the modding support out of your version (which will probably make it even harder to keep the two versions in sync featurewise). The more two forks diverge, the harder it is to apply patches from one to the other (especially large patches).

My exact problem if I were to do my idea now.


Title: Re: scII redux?
Post by: Art on October 03, 2005, 04:12:08 am
I don't see why "Hey, this would be a cool game to make!" is inherently more of a useless post than "Hey, what's your favorite alien from SC2?" Both only exist because people want to talk about them, not because either one is going to generate useful code for any project. It's not like this is a coders-only forum.