The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Newman on October 12, 2005, 02:33:54 pm



Title: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Newman on October 12, 2005, 02:33:54 pm
After playing three times, always destroyed by the Korh-Ah, i decided to get to these forums.
So, here's my questions

1. Where can i find the Chenjesu-Mmrnhrmm? (Aargh, the name)
2. What stuff is required to repair the ultron?
3. Is there an Orz dimension simillar to Arilou's QuasiSpace?
4. Is there any way to stop the Kohr-ah, or even slow down the cleansing?
5. How long does it take to the Yehat revolutionists win the Revolution? DOes it just take time?
6. What the hell is "Rosy Sphere" for?
7. How can you convince Thraddash to join the alliance?

I hope my questions shall be anwsered.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Novus on October 12, 2005, 03:15:14 pm
Major spoilers below. Highlight to read.

1. Where can i find the Chenjesu-Mmrnhrmm? (Aargh, the name)
Procyon 2. That's "Mmrnmhrm", by the way.

Quote
2. What stuff is required to repair the ultron?
The Rosy Sphere, the Aqua Helix and the Clear Spindle.

Quote
3. Is there an Orz dimension simillar to Arilou's QuasiSpace?
Yes, but you can't go there.

Quote
4. Is there any way to stop the Kohr-ah, or even slow down the cleansing?
You can slow down the Kohr-Ah by getting the Utwig and Supox to attack them. You need the Ultron for this.

Quote
5. How long does it take to the Yehat revolutionists win the Revolution? DOes it just take time?
Until the final battle. ;D

Quote
6. What the hell is "Rosy Sphere" for?
See question 2.

Quote
7. How can you convince Thraddash to join the alliance?
Destroy enough Thraddash ships (from finite fleets), don't get them destroyed by the Ilwrath and don't steal the Aqua-Helix.
[/color]


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Newman on October 12, 2005, 03:28:25 pm
Major spoilers below. Highlight to read.

1. Where can i find the Chenjesu-Mmrnhrmm? (Aargh, the name)
Procyon 2. That's "Mmrnmhrm", by the way.
Wich direction is Procyon?

EDIT: Oh, forgot to ask.. Where is the Slylandro homeplanet?


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Novus on October 12, 2005, 05:06:40 pm
Wich direction is Procyon?
Co-ordinates are 74.2 : 226.8.

Quote
EDIT: Oh, forgot to ask.. Where is the Slylandro homeplanet?
Beta Corvi 4.
[/color]
Most of the stuff you are asking (e.g. home planets) can be found in the Ultronomicon (http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/Main_Page).


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: alatari on October 16, 2005, 07:21:45 pm
Does getting the Thraddash to attack the Kohr Ah actually slow them down or the Supox/Utwig attack either?
Or is the Kohr Ah attack always start in early 2159 no matter what?

Does the number of ships you destroy actually effect an alien race?

If it does I should have shrunk the VUX sphere of influence on my own...


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: alatari on October 16, 2005, 07:33:39 pm
Oh and:

Is there a way to win at the game without getting the Ultron fixed?   Like could you capture a Deep Child and send it at the Sa -Matre planet?  Or could you speed up the Chmrrr transformation?

And what prize to you get if you find all 10 rainbows?  What pattern are they?

Why can't you use the Hyperwave Caster to talk to the Spathi homeworld and bitch at them?

Now that the Syreen have a fleet how come they don't get a sphere of influence circle around Betleguese (sp)?

Where are all the non-spacefaring Ilwrath and Thraddush living that would survive the war?

Ok OK now it's only a game and one from 1992 so I'm expecting too much to have multiple victory plot lines and realism that a majority of any species is alway planetside and not spacefaring...  But still it's so obvious that if you can talk to the Chenjesu with that Umgah Hypercaster that you should be able to bitch at the damn Spathi for bailing... ????



Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Volka on October 16, 2005, 08:30:42 pm

Why can't you use the Hyperwave Caster to talk to the Spathi homeworld and bitch at them?
and one from 1992 so I'm expecting too much to have multiple victory plot lines and realism that a majority of any species is alway planetside and not spacefaring...  But still it's so obvious that if you can talk to the Chenjesu with that Umgah Hypercaster that you should be able to bitch at the damn Spathi for bailing... ????

They simply don't want to answer :)


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: alatari on October 16, 2005, 09:25:49 pm
More funny would be to get the Spathi High Council answering amchine.

"Sorry Hunams, we are away right now..."


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Megagun on October 16, 2005, 11:27:14 pm
Quote
Why can't you use the Hyperwave Caster to talk to the Spathi homeworld and bitch at them?
and one from 1992 so I'm expecting too much to have multiple victory plot lines and realism that a majority of any species is alway planetside and not spacefaring...  But still it's so obvious that if you can talk to the Chenjesu with that Umgah Hypercaster that you should be able to bitch at the damn Spathi for bailing... Huh?
Simple answer for this, when you think about it: the Chenjesu don't have casters.. Well, they are able to send hyperwave transmissions themselves.. Pretty darn good ones at that. Even the best 'caster won't match the power a Chenjesu transmission could do... They also have really great receivers, which makes them able to receive the few tiny bits of information that you manage to get through their slave shield.. Obviously, the Spathi don't have such technology..


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Novus on October 17, 2005, 09:24:39 am
Does getting the Thraddash to attack the Kohr Ah actually slow them down or the Supox/Utwig attack either?
The Thraddash are useless against the Kohr-Ah. The Supox-Utwig joint attack gives you an extra year.

Quote
Does the number of ships you destroy actually effect an alien race?
Not really. The Thraddash keep count of the ships you destroy and races with one or two ships can be affected.

Is there a way to win at the game without getting the Ultron fixed? Like could you capture a Deep Child and send it at the Sa -Matre planet? Or could you speed up the Chmrrr transformation?
Actually, the Ultron isn't necessary, but getting the bomb from the Utwig without it is very messy and involves some really bad stuff happening first.

Quote
And what prize to you get if you find all 10 rainbows? What pattern are they?
The rainbow worlds are a prize in themselves, considering what the Melnorme pay for them. The pattern was supposed to point at an encounter with the Creators, but this was dropped due to lack of development time.

Quote
Now that the Syreen have a fleet how come they don't get a sphere of influence circle around Betleguese (sp)?
That's a very good question. The best reason I can think of is that they aren't patrolling any space, just trying to stay out of the way of the Ur-Quan.

Quote
Where are all the non-spacefaring Ilwrath and Thraddush living that would survive the war?
Probably on their homeworlds that end up getting bombed. Try visiting them some time.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on October 17, 2005, 10:23:04 am
Quote:
Actually, the Ultron isn't necessary, but getting the bomb from the Utwig without it is very messy and involves some really bad stuff happening first.

I didn't know that. I always thought you had to play nice with the Utwig
to get the bomb. They were one of the races I didn't attack in
my Evil Empire game. I may have to play through again
as the bad guy and try this.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: alatari on October 17, 2005, 11:08:37 am
Yeah these authors really thought thru this plot.  The Chenjesu have built in Hyperwave tranceivers..  Duh I forgot.

Still more questions come to mind and thoughts about what to add to the release of the fan produced classic.

1.  Which races are absolutely never going to give you plans for their ships or offer any ships as aid?

2. The Mrnrhrmm and Chenjesu could at least have transmitted designs for their ships thru the Hyperwave communication with Captain Farlie.

3.  Of the Ilwrath and Thraddush: someone has to survive.  It is highly unlikely there are not one survivor.   Like one last Ilwrath vessel responsible for the death of the final Thraddush...
Geeze, the Thraddush survived 19 previous holocausts so they must be pretty tough bastards.

4.  The Melnorme should sell you the plans to 2419.  They are superfast ships with missile batteries.   Like in question 1 the Melnorme offer you no ship assistance at all?

I had about 10 more what-ifs that I thought of as I lay there unable to fall to sleep.   Ah well.  I'll post em when I think of em.




Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: alatari on October 17, 2005, 11:12:21 am
Guess I should register so I can edit my posts. 

Have any idea the number of forums handles and PWs I need to maintain.  It's just a pain...

Novus, what races have only 2 ships?


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Captain_Smith on October 17, 2005, 03:19:11 pm
1.  Which races are absolutely never going to give you plans for their ships or offer any ships as aid?

The solid Hierarchy races.  Like the VUX, Mycon, Ur-Quan, and Kohr-Ah.  As far as I can think of, those are the only races of which you can never get control of their ships within the game under any circumstances.  The rest either will give you plans, gift ships or sell the ships to you.  The Melnorme?  Well, the Melnorme are hesitant to offer anything about themselves without a huge cost being paid. 

2. The Mrnrhrmm and Chenjesu could at least have transmitted designs for their ships thru the Hyperwave communication with Captain Farlie.

Alien ships are useless without native pilots.

3.  Of the Ilwrath and Thraddush: someone has to survive.  It is highly unlikely there are not one survivor.   Like one last Ilwrath vessel responsible for the death of the final Thraddush...
Geeze, the Thraddush survived 19 previous holocausts so they must be pretty tough bastards.

Try poking around the home worlds of each race.

4.  The Melnorme should sell you the plans to 2419.  They are superfast ships with missile batteries.   Like in question 1 the Melnorme offer you no ship assistance at all?

The probes?  Even if you came up with the 10,000 credits the Slylandro gas bags paid them for a probe, I doubt they'd sell to anyone after the mess the gas bags caused with the last one.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Bob on October 17, 2005, 03:39:53 pm
Well, the 2419 probe is equipped with a receiver, so it could be recalled. The 2418 (B) probes aren't, however, and are the model used by the Slylandro. Granted, you could cause trouble with the probes anyway, but such is life.

As Smith has answered which races will not give you their ships, I will list all of the ships in the game that are impossible to obtain. They are the Chenjesu Broodhome, Mmrnmhrm X-Form, Ilwrath Avenger, Androsynth Guardian (naturally), Mycon Podship, Ur-Quan Dreadnought, VUX Intruder, Melnorme Trader, 2418-B Probe, and Kohr-Ah Marauder.

Alien ships are useless without native pilots, true.  Of course, in theory, they *could* offer you the ships after the Process takes place, but they evidently believe their Avatars are more than sufficient, and their higher cost isn't significant by the time you'll likely get them. There's no foe that the Chenjesu-Mmrnmhrm ships would be particularly good at fighting, anyway, that would make it worthwhile for them to go to the trouble of giving you the plans.

-Bob


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: alatari on October 18, 2005, 12:44:54 am
The rule about only flying a ship with a native pilot had to be for plot control because logically humans should be able to fit proper control mechanisms to any captured ship.  What sentient race worth a salt couldn't?


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Culture20 on October 19, 2005, 07:12:04 am
Humans.  We're flying ships made out of recycled car parts designed in detroit, and our only powerful weapons are nukes and pitifully slow charging lasers.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Sander Scamper on October 23, 2005, 11:42:12 pm
I imagine it would take years to figure out how to fly something like an Avatar without a native pilot.

Maybe there are some buttons on some ships which are only activatable by raising the temperature in 3 fingers by a few degrees?


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Death 999 on October 24, 2005, 07:20:08 pm
We can emulate their control panels... if their control is to raise the temperature by 3 degrees, which starts a chain reaction of some sort, then we can start the chain reaction some other way. At worst case, we can make a machine to raise the control's temperature by 3 degrees.

Now, it could be that all the ships are controlled by computers with neural interfaces. That would be too hard to emulate... except we see people manipulating controls. I think this is a good time to stop applying suspension of disbelief.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Art on October 25, 2005, 04:41:28 am
This hardly seems unrealistic at all. It doesn't need to be some statement about native captains having the biological ability to fly the ships -- all we need to say is that ships still require some skill to fly, and that the different ships -- which are shown to have very different structures and to behave in very different ways -- take a lot of training to learn to use. The relatively tiny Starbase in the game doesn't really have the resources to train people for a year in learning to effectively fly a strange alien vessel, and most of the ships don't have the advantage of having a hyperintelligent Precursor computer controlling them that can communicate with a genetic freak who has an unusual intuitive gift for talking to it.

In real life, if a less advanced civilization -- say, an Industrial Revolution-era England -- stole the plans for an F-22 fighter jet from the modern USA, and they had the resources to build one -- they'd taken over a modern factory, just like Hayes  has taken control of an Ur-Quan Starbase -- they'd still have a big problem with finding someone who could effectively pilot one. Within the time scales of the game -- on the order of months -- training new captains would be effectively impossible, especially since you have to maintain secrecy and can't fly manuevers all over the solar system. The captains the aliens give you are just as important as the blueprints.

The exception here is the Shofixti, who are all born after the game starts and only have a few months to learn to pilot their vessels. But we might claim that no one but a Shofixti would *want* to learn to fly one of those dangerous Scouts.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: jack_cloudy on October 25, 2005, 07:59:31 am
And even then, Shofixti don't have to learn much beyond: ,,Slam the throttle and point your nose at the enemy. When close, flip these three switches. Feel free to experiment, but don't flip the switches until you are in a real combat situation and flipping the switches has priority over everything else at that point."

But yeah, this sounds good. Maybe they have a simulator somewhere, but you can't simulate the entire ship accurately (if you try that, then why not just build a real one?) and nothing beats some real experience. It also explains why you can't build the Spathi ships after they cower behind their slaveshield. You can build them, but what is the point if you can't have an experienced captain, pilot and other vital crew transferred from Spathiwa's moon? (those lying bastards! Evacuating the moon didn't take that long! >:()

I must say it is quite an achievement. No one seems to know any way of breaking the shield, exlcuding the Chenjesu who are supposed to be the most intelligent beings in the universe anyway. And breaking isn't the same as building one.
(I suppose you can get through with enough firepower, but there wouldn't be much left of the planet. The Kohr-Ah would love doing this.) Yet still, the Spathi manage to figure out how it works in just a few months and build one of their own. Then again, Fwiffo has been hanging around for a while. Maybe he is a genius who has figured out how to build slaveshields and told his fellow Spathi  during a visit. I don't know, haven't asked him/her/it (anyone know what genders the Spathi have?).


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Megagun on October 25, 2005, 12:45:58 pm
Well, we have NO idea on what quality the Spathi's shield is, anyways. It could be a very cheapassed shield that's easy to break through, or something, but one that lets out enough for them to use it..

Also, I wonder if the Chenjesu are actually smarter than Ur-Quan (Kzer-Za). Sure, they've got their socienty built just the right way for them to completely utilize their "smartness", and they actually know quite a lot, but they seem to be kind of.. well... It seems as if they only know facts, and have practically no opinions on what they know (based on conversations with Chenjesu-Mmrnmhrm, before the Process was completed). This could ofcourse explain the uniqueness of their society... IMHO, opinions matter quite a lot, since they allow a race to develop in more ways than just one.

Now, you could ofcourse come up with the fact that their Avatars are probably the most powerful ships in the quadrant, but how much of it's design comes from the Mmrnmhrm? Where do the Mmrnmhrm come from? What do they know already? What is hidden deep inside their memory banks?

Heh. Sorry if this all doesn't make sense.. I'll likely edit this post later on.. Not much time left.. :)


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: meep-eep on October 25, 2005, 03:51:32 pm
Remember that the Spathi went from bronze to atomic technology in less than a century. They just need some motivation.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Art on October 28, 2005, 10:32:21 am
And even then, Shofixti don't have to learn much beyond: ,,Slam the throttle and point your nose at the enemy. When close, flip these three switches. Feel free to experiment, but don't flip the switches until you are in a real combat situation and flipping the switches has priority over everything else at that point."

But yeah, this sounds good. Maybe they have a simulator somewhere, but you can't simulate the entire ship accurately (if you try that, then why not just build a real one?) and nothing beats some real experience. It also explains why you can't build the Spathi ships after they cower behind their slaveshield. You can build them, but what is the point if you can't have an experienced captain, pilot and other vital crew transferred from Spathiwa's moon? (those lying bastards! Evacuating the moon didn't take that long! >:()]/quote]

Well, the simple pick-a-ship-and-fight-it-against-another-one mode in SC1 was supposed to be an ship simulator programmed by the Alliance. Of course, there's no reason the Ur-Quan maintenance Starbase would be equipped with any such thing -- remember that your SC2 Starbase is a glorified gas station with jury-rigged equipment, *not* a genuine Alliance military base.

Quote
I must say it is quite an achievement. No one seems to know any way of breaking the shield, exlcuding the Chenjesu who are supposed to be the most intelligent beings in the universe anyway. And breaking isn't the same as building one.

Most intelligent in our neck of the woods, sure. But surely not most intelligent in the universe -- or at least not the most knowledgeable. The Ur-Quan are definitely far superior in what they know to the Chenjesu. The Melnorme probably are, too, along with, in their way, the Arilou, and even maybe the Pkunk (depending on the kind of intelligence you mean). The Utwig, once they're empowered by the Ultron, might even be smarter, or at least as smart.

In any case: I'd dispute that breaking is always easier than building. With something like the slave shield that might not actually be true at all. It's easier to fry an egg than to unfry it, to lock a door than to unlock it, and so on.

Quote
(I suppose you can get through with enough firepower, but there wouldn't be much left of the planet. The Kohr-Ah would love doing this.) Yet still, the Spathi manage to figure out how it works in just a few months and build one of their own. Then again, Fwiffo has been hanging around for a while. Maybe he is a genius who has figured out how to build slaveshields and told his fellow Spathi  during a visit. I don't know, haven't asked him/her/it (anyone know what genders the Spathi have?).

The Spathi seem to be two-sexed just like us -- Fwiffo talks about his "male parent" and his "female parent", who even seem to have traditional human gender roles -- the male goes out and works and the female takes care of the kids.

They also, of course, seem incredibly intelligent in their way -- Bronze Age to Atomic Age in a century -- which was always a very appealing part of the joke to me. They have ships that can clearly take on several Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts with ease, and yet their whole personality keeps them from ever becoming a dominant power.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Newman on October 28, 2005, 10:14:05 pm
Remember that the Spathi went from bronze to atomic technology in less than a century. They just need some motivation.

Yeah, thats because they didn't stop to fight with their new inventions, like we did. Cowards..


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Edgewood on October 29, 2005, 01:45:45 am
I never thought of the Chenjeshu as superior intelligences, just  cooler heads.  If my xenobiology is correct, the Chenjeshu's nervous system equivalent consists of microscopic hyperwave caster arrays rearranging the silicate crystalline structure... er... they're sort of like sentient calculators.
What -I- want to know is: if Earthlings are too similar to the Syreen for it to be a coincidence, why are the Arilou interested only in Earthlings?  Syreen & us human people would seem to be the only twin species in this part of space, and presumably humans came to be like the Syreen through Arilou modifications.   Though we may have all been seeded from the same source, genetic drift would surely stop species from different planets from reproducing together!


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Novus on October 29, 2005, 11:45:24 am
The Arilou admit to having manipulated humanity for thousands of years. My theory is that the Syreen are some sort of control group for the Arilou; what Humans would be without Arilou manipulation. The (weak) psionic ability the Syreen have (as evidenced by their secondary weapon) may be one of the things eliminated by the Arilou to protect us from being *smelled* (by the Orz?).


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Art on November 02, 2005, 04:32:14 pm
I never thought of the Chenjeshu as superior intelligences, just  cooler heads.  If my xenobiology is correct, the Chenjeshu's nervous system equivalent consists of microscopic hyperwave caster arrays rearranging the silicate crystalline structure... er... they're sort of like sentient calculators.
What -I- want to know is: if Earthlings are too similar to the Syreen for it to be a coincidence, why are the Arilou interested only in Earthlings?  Syreen & us human people would seem to be the only twin species in this part of space, and presumably humans came to be like the Syreen through Arilou modifications.   Though we may have all been seeded from the same source, genetic drift would surely stop species from different planets from reproducing together!

Not if the species weren't separated until very recently (in terms of evolution). If they were separated six to ten thousand years ago, for instance, they would probably evolve to look somewhat different but still be genetically close enough to be cross-fertile.

Interestingly that seems to be the timeframe in which the Arilou started manipulation of human destiny, or at least as far back as evidence of their intervention (in the person of gods and faeries and such) goes -- the beginnings of human civilization and recorded history, the start of the transition from hominids to true Humans. Take that plus the idea that humans seem to regard Syreen society as like their idea of "Eden", and you start to get a picture.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Newman on November 05, 2005, 09:18:58 pm
Another question..
How can you get the ilwrath off the Chmmr homeworld?


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Captain_Smith on November 05, 2005, 11:33:29 pm
Another question..
How can you get the ilwrath off the Chmmr homeworld?

Caster, Dogar, Kazon.  You can fill in the rest of the blanks.


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: Krulle on November 07, 2005, 07:07:09 am
Three more hints for you:

1. Find out where the Ilwrath came from.
2. Find out why they went to fight the Pkunk.

3. Use the three hints from the previous post. Har! Har! Har! Now, that was a bad hint, wasn't it?

Enjoy!
 Krulle


Title: Re: Some questions that need anwsering.
Post by: rarr on December 23, 2005, 11:55:16 pm
It seems to me that the reason why we can't make Broodhomes or X-forms is because there are no Chenjesu or Mmrnmrhrm left - just Chmmr. Chmmr might not have the appropriate abilities to fly the seperate ships...just the Avatars.