The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

Just got my *ss kicked by a single Chmmrr Avatar.  I had heard that the Earthling Cruiser had no chance, but I was able to charge in to point blank range and land 1 missile without it being intercepted.  Then I chose the Supox Blade: big mistake.  Though I could stand off and hurl in little green projectiles, the satellite ships would shoot them down.  Lame!

What are the best small ship counters to the Chmrrr Cheese-cruiser?

The Dreadnought and the Marauder are best bet for the avatar from what I remember. Though I've pulled it off with scout's self destruct (hurt  quite a bit, damn zapstats) and a Yehat ship(careful using of guns/shields)

Sadly, the Druuge Mauler ... its projectile will not be stopped or destroyed by the zap sats.  And its recoil has the added benefit of fighting the tracker beam.  Good luck.

-PsiPhi

Druuge Maulers, if you do it right, can take down an Avatar without getting hit once!  (of course, _you_ will be the one killing your crew...)

Utwig Juggers, if you have good enough reflexes, can also take an Avatar down.

Both kinds of Urquan can hurt the Avatar, but Korh-Ah are better at it since the FRIED ring takes out ZapStats.  Don't expect to win however, that will just weaken the Avatar a lot.

The Shofixti Glory device hurts the Avatar and always takes out at least one ZapStat, usually two and sometimes even three.

The Thraddash's afterburner is especially suited to dispatch with the Avatar's ZapSats.

Yes, but as annoying as it would be, what if the Avatar just chose not to move?  The Thraddash afterburner is only effective if you fly INTO it.  The computer would never remain stationary, but a person could ... and why not, with the tractor beam, you bring the FUN to you.
 With patience, the computer can lose in a lot of stupid ways.

-PsiPhi

The Umgah Drone is actually quite effective (in groups of two or three) against a Chmrr Avatar, if you can zip into range behind it.  Once there, open up with the antimatter cone, which will quickly dissolve a zapsat or two.  If you're lucky enough to take them out before they blast you to pieces, you might get all three.  You won't take out the Avatar itself with one Drone, however.

The Druuge Mauler has already been mentioned.  You dont' have to feed crew to the furnace, actually, if you have patience.  Just keep your distance (if you're going fast enough from recoil, the tractor beam won't be effective) and launch a slug at the Avatar every now and then.  The regen rate on combat batteries is slow, but not unworkable.

Melnorme projectiles, at least at full charge, are able to penetrate the zapsats without being stopped.  Green and blue probably won't make it, but I know the red ones will.  And the confusion ray is good for keeping the main weapon away from you.

Androsynth Guardian in blazer mode can knock a few holes in the side of a Chmrr ship.  Of course, if it doesn't hit the zapsats, it'll get picked apart quickly, but it's not futile.

Utwig, even without the shield, can do okay if they keep at standoff distance and blast away with the main guns.  They won't all get through, but enough projectiles will that eventually the Avatar is destroyed.  If you survive long enough.

VUX Intruders are okay, as their laser is quite damaging, and can do a number on the zapsats.  Once those are gone, you can limpet the Avatar so that it can't bring its primary weapon to bear on you, zip (sort of) around behind, and blast away.  This only works if...IF!  you're not bringing the VUX into play against the Avatar.  That is, if the Intruder has already fought.  If you come out of hyperspace right next to the Avatar, you're toast.  Slimy, green, tentacular toast with a large eyeball, but toast nonetheless.

A Mycon podship can produce plasmoids that, if they're fresh enough when they reach the Avatar, will not be entirely destroyed by the zapsats.  If you manage to get the Avatar to chase you (never chase a Mycon), you can lob full-power plasmoids into the ship, usually destroying it in a few hits.  Of course, if you miss once, and get in range of the laser, then your Mycon is turned into mushroom soup, a lovely accompaniment to your VUX toast.

Chenjesu Broodhomes, actually, are quite effective against the Chmrr, since their primary weapon is both powerful and long ranged.  Exploding a few crystals before they hit the main ship can take care of pesky zapsats, too.  Do not, however, try a DOGI on the Avatar.  It gets picked apart by the zapsats very quickly.

Most other ships, though, especially the ones with weapons that can be easily intercepted and shot down, are hopelessly outclassed.  I found that Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts, singly, were unable to destroy a fully-crewed Avatar.  In twos or threes, yes, but not singly.  This makes sense, since the Avatar was designed for fighting Dreadnoughts.

Kohr-Ah Marauders fared somewhat better, since they could destroy zapsats with the Fiery Ring of Inevitable and Eternal Destruction, but they could only do so at close range, which is precisely the WRONG place to be, in relation to the Avatar, if you want to avoid a dinner-sized serving of Flaming Death.  (Hmm, food motif here...maybe I'm getting hungry for some rocky fungal clingers...my favorite!)

Needless to say, most other ships, especially the smaller ones I favored, would get their posteriors handed to them, gift-wrapped and postage marked.

I find the Androsynth to be the best anti-Chmmr weapon.  I can usually take an Avatar down without taking damage.  Drop bubbles in front of the Chmmr until it starts to get too close.  Then switch to Blazer mode and run away.  Hold down the special weapon button and the thrust button so you will keep changing to Blazer mode over and over again, until you are a safe distance away and can recharge your batteries.  You can do rapid course-corrections with Blazer mode.  Repeat.  

My favourite one is the Supox Blade.
Needs patience and a little practice!
But getting the practice is easy against the Avatar,
because you will only fly backwards and correct your line
of flight in a few cases, to hit the right spot for taking
out the Zapstats.

1. Make the Avatar follow you
2. Fly backwards
3. Shoot Zapstats first (at least 1 of 3 will hit the
   zapstat if you shoot it at the point where the
   satelite passes the Avatar)
4. Use only full battery-loads (reload when empty)
5. After taking out at least 2 of the satelites, you can
  proceed the kill the sitting avatar.

Your engine is strong enough to fight the tractor beam
while flying backwards.

I only take damage from crashing the planet or by
forgetting to keep pressing the reverse shift.
The blade was the first ship, in which i won against
a human-controlled avatar without losing any crew.
Against the ai, it is the same.

Enjoy!
Martin

My spitfire, i will plant thy seeds and keep your nutricious dirt always well watered!

The list so far covers most of the likely offenders- the only one I'd add is actually the Pkunk Fury- the key to beating an Avatar with it is realising that if a Zapsat has a choice between shooting at another ship or shooting at another ship's projectiles, it seems to go for the projectiles... so, using your manoueverability, you get behind the Chmmr (a second under the main laser, and its KFP- Kentucky Fried Pkunk) zip in close to the zap sats, and pump out as many bullets as you can before retreating. If you time it right, the zap sats will be too busy shooting down the bullets to take out any of your crew and enough will get through to do around 4-6 damage to the Avatar if you lined up your attack correctly.
This leaves your (theoretically) unscathed Fury to zip out, charge up your battery, and head in for another attack run. Repeat x 10 and you have a dead Avatar.

Obviously, this is very much an expert tactic, and it takes a heck of a long time to master- if you don't time your firing exactly right, you'll lose about half your crew complement to zapsats before you can get out of there. Once you master the tactic though you should be fine. It is possible to beat a pretty experienced human or computer on awesome with this method even if your fury doesn't reincarnate, and if you get lucky and come back a few times, your victoriy is practically assured.

One word: slingshot.  
:(

The only way I ever found to defeat them was to use an Utwig Jugger vessel and be VERY careful.  The Avatar has insane offensive potential, but drains batteries very quickly - If you can get it to drain it's batteries into the shield/absorber, you can destroy it with minimal losses.  You've just got to unleash the fury of Hell when it runs out of laser  :P

Sometimes I have seen the computer to stay still with the Avatar and do this.   After a while it realizes the tactic is futile and starts moving...this can work with a human too...wait and strike them until they run out of patience or bulldoze them.

I've had it do this while I was piloting either the Traddash or the Orz.

One option I haven't seen mentioned here is the Orz.

Although the Orz Nemesis isn't quite fast enough to escape the Chmmr's tractor beam, it can hold out for quite a while.  In addition, its shots have a much longer range than the Chmmr's, and can penetrate through the zapsats.

My strategy for fighting a Chmmr with an Orz is:

1. Crank the cannon around to the back and repeatedly swoop in, fire, and swoop out.  If the Chmmr starts trying to pull me in (the computer always will), I fly directly away from it for as long as possible, firing backwards; at the last moment, turn and fly *around* it.  The Chmmr can't change directions quickly enough and will lose ground on you.

 This hit-and-run technique is especially effective near the planet, since you can use the gravity well to escape the tractor beam.

2. Repeat (1) until you have destroyed the Chmmr, or have eliminated the zapsats.  If the zapsats are gone, you may want to unleash hordes of space marines on it.

Caveats: first, I haven't had much of a chance to try this out on a human player, so there may be a simple strategy the Chmmr can employ to avoid it.  For instance, I suspect that holding back on the tractor until the Orz is nearby might cause considerable trouble.

Second, this isn't a foolproof strategy -- fly too close to the Chmmr (or, more likely, into the planet) and you can be toast in seconds.

Oh, and if you don't mind a really cheesy win and you're playing the computer, take a Thraddash.  The computer doesn't make any effort to dodge the afterburner fireballs, and if more than a few are clumped together, the zapsats can't destroy them quickly enough before they hit something. (either the Chmmr itself, or a satellite)

Daniel

I just wanted to disagree about the Kohr-Ah being close to the Chmmr.  Being close is good good good initially.  I try to let the Chmmr bring me in close and aim to slingshot past.  While going past I send out rings of flame as quickly as possible--often, if lucky, I can take down the Chmmr in one pass.

Utwig Jugger is doom of any chmmr.
No special tactic is needed  :)

??? Never had any problems with that.
Awesome computers were absolutely no problem with the Blade, but Humans. After a while they stop chasing you, then it becomes mroe difficult to stay at the rigth distance to take the ZapStats out.

Androsynth. That ship beats almost every ship.
Bubble all over. If you are lucky, all the zap sats go boom. Then you charge your batteries and go into blazer mode and target to the side of the Chmmr, where you can fly to, getting stuck, and giving MASSIVE amount of damage in one mere second! ;D

Druuge makes it dead. If the Chmmr starts pulling, waste your crew to ammunition and fire as long as you can, 'coz you don't want to get in that laser! :D

Slylandro Probe. A *very* tough job, I haven't ever done it (takes patience and a long time), but I've noticed it's highly possible.

Should there be a strategies thread? :P

I was playing a buncha SuperMelee versus the computer last night, the only ship I was really able to take the Chmmr down easily with was the Thraddash Torch. Of course, this wouldn't work on a human player at all.