The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=1000.0

So I was reading some stuff on the Androsynth and when I went to reply the computer told me that the thread was old and that I should just start a new one. So here I go.

Dose any one here think that some of the Androsynth survived the cataclysm and are just hiding scared( If that happened on Earth and I got a way I know I would hideout until I could discover what had happened).

In SC3 I thought that it was pretty clear that the Orz killed off the Androsynth(I know that most people don’t like SC3) to make the *juice* or *sauce* for the Eternal Ones, however I did not know if the Orz were agents of the Eternal Ones, or rather if they were just trying appease the Eternal Ones appetite. I prefer the latter as the Orz may not have even been aware of the Eternal Ones before coming up into *Heavy Space*.

Anyhow I like to think that some of the Androsynth are still alive out there and are rebuilding there civilization(without the Ur-Quan).

People in the old thread mentioned the "Warlock files" in their discussion... what/where was this?

I think they are all dust. Sadly, it seems the 'synth are extinct.
Sure, it's possible some survived, but judging by what happens
to your crew when you discover the old 'synth cities, I'm
guessing they didn't make it.

Shhh, it's okay, they're just sleeping.

The worlock files was a game writeup submitted to Accolade when they fired FF & PR3. It was a potential story for SC3. However, it didn't meet Accolade's requirement that it exclude everything FF & PR3 did in SC2 (a requirement if they didn't want to pay FF & PR3) so it was scrapped.

Some StarControllers thought it was beautiful, the ultimate fan script. Personally I did't find it all that. But a comittee dedicated to writing the TimeWarp  (http://timewarp.sourceforge.net/) storyline creamed themselves over it and tried making it the official storyline of the TW project. Unfortunately that particular comittee was rife with drama and it never materialized.

Maybe someone will link to them because I don't know where they are.

Not that what little of the TimeWarp story that is fleshed out is very good, at least the version I saw. It just looked like a hodgepodge of scifi cliches, references, and non-sequiters thrown together with very little focus.

Still, I'd be curious to see these "Warlock Files" that some people get so excited about. It comes up every so often, and I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.

The "Warlok files" (http://koti.mbnet.fi/lonnberg/warlok.zip) were design plans for SC3 that were ignored/mangled by Legend and Accolade.

Who wrote that crap?

It was horrible! There was more than enough ground work laid by SC2's fiction without the need to muddy it up with these half-assed aliens and vessel additions. The RPG storylines were straight out of some high school drama class.

I've always gone with the whole idea that Androsynth ARE Orz.

Think of *smelling* as knowing your DNA. If you know too much of the Orz they smell you (you are noticed). You are then *pulled*/attacked into/by the Orz dimention where afterwards you are replaced by the Orz as a puppet/*finger*?. The Androsynth were all clones. If one of them was *smelled* the entire race was *smelled*. Thus the whole race was attacked by the Orz. After the Androsynth were dead the Orz pretty much took over their bodies?. I'm going to have to go with the Warlok when they say that the Androsynth ships did pretty much the same except on a ship-mass scale. From when the Arilou said "You know too much, ignorance is your best protection. This is why there are no more Androsynth, only Orz", the Orz creepy language, and through general Sci-fi knowledge I instantly believed that the Orz subverted the 'Synth like this and Orz himself is coming to existance somehow. They also want (and like) to fight other races pretty badly. The Arilou make check ups on us to prevent Orz from sniffing us out.

Well at least that's what I believe in ;)

I'm glad to hear this. I censored my comments on my previous post because I know that there is a number of Warlock fans about. But personally I think that IF Accolade had used this stuff SC3 would not have been much improved, if at all.

Very possible. Look at the following lines:
- If you are *campers* you will enjoy *the change*, but maybe not yet.
- Next it is the *party* and you will *become*. It is best. After this you are so *happy* you do not ask the many questions.

Probably *the change* and especially *become* means transformation...

The Orz creep me out as is, but your theory creeps me out even more. I’ll Have to play that part again to see what I think.

You know I always thought of  *smelling* as some sort of esp, or the way the Orz perceived  the world around ?it them? Rather than seeing. The Orz always say it is good to *smell* you again when you met up with them, but the Arilou said that that they changed our *smell* so that we would not be harmed. I don’t know if *smelling* has any thing to do with knowing our DNA but rather just the way the Orz perceive us.

I tend to agree with XR4-IT on the meaning of *smell*. I don’t think that it has much to do with DNA at all.

Dose any one else have an opinion on the subject?   

Forgive me if this has been mentioned, but the Melnorme say clearly that it was the Orz that killed the Andrysmyth.

You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. The Androsynth were seduced by the *below* side of hyperspace. They ceased to be Androsynth and BECAME Orz. When that happened, the human creatures who were once like us were destroyed. So what the Melnorme told you was TRUE... from a certain point of view.

Thank you Obi-Wan Kenobi

I suppose it's a possibility.

First your theory makes the Orz sound a bit like the Borg. If the Androsynth became Orz because they changed there *smell* when they learned too much about DF why did Bukowski not become Orz as well?

If your theory is true it seems that over time that all sentient life would become Orz. They are gone, now there is only Orz.

The Orz say the place they come from is *hurt* and I wonder if the Orz fled that space and came here when they became aware of ours once the Androsynth made some *slippery places*.  Perhaps whatever was *hurt* killed off the Androsynth as the Orz were coming through.

I still say that the Orz is a singular entity, and the fish thingies we see are its projections into our reality, or as the Orz say *fingers*. They mention that they are not *light reflections* and that they are not *many bubbles* like we are. The Orz refers to itself as both a singular entity and as multiple entities in conversations. I think this is based on context. The former is when it refers to its extradimensional self and the latter is a reference to the ships and fish beings perceived by everyone in this dimension.

I don't have the specifics on hand, but after reading through the Orz dialogue I was convinced that the Orz displaced the Androsynth rather than killing them off. Remember the absence of any bodies on the Androsynth homeworld? There was other stuff too, but I'm not very motivated to look for it at the moment.

Just tossing my opinion into the ring. =)

Ahhh...this old debate continues. I made my points, albeit rather harshly, on the previous topic on this in the Long Long Ago. I'll sum it up.

-The Androsynth, upon discovering the Precursor Artifact, bring it home and start research on it.
-Eventually, they discover it's purpose- opening rifts in the space/time continuum to an alternate dimension.
-What they didn't know was the Orz, a singular being with multiple *fingers*, was waiting on the other side.
-The Orz attacked the Androsynth via the rift that was created on their surface, capturing or otherwise removing all traces of their existence.
-The blasted cities found on the surface of their planet show an attempt by the Androsynth to defend themselves from this invading force, apparently with thermonuclear weaponry as the reference to "nuclear bazookas" is given by Xenotech Killgore on examining the planet's surface.

In a nutshell, that's what I think happened. The Orz didn't eat the Androsynth, or the Androsynth didn't become the Orz. Their final fate is still unknown...to us, at least. The Arilou might know, but they're not telling, as usual.

I always had the impression that the Orz made a sloppy attempt to destroy the Androsynth discoveries that lead to their demise at the hands of this unknown evil from another dimension that destroyed/absorbed the Androsynth. Doesn't somebody say that it looks like theire type of weaponry. Sloppy because they didn't destroy enough of it for your crew members to not almost unleash it on humanity. The Androsynth were sucked into some kind of hell dimension (no bodies found on the homeworld) and the Orz tried to keep anyone else from being smelled by destroying all remnants of Androsynth civiliization.

The Arilou clearly aren't saying that the Orz are the same thing they've been hiding humanity from or they wouldn't even have made you aware of them.

There is definitely another critter at work, since (even though the guy reporting on it is too thick to realize it) that scientist is being attacked by something invisible in the plot stuff on the Androsynth homeworld.

I don't remember what the Melnorme said, but I don't remember them saying the Orz killed the Androsynth outright. In any case, I don't think the Orz are all that malevolent.

Maybe I'll pull all the relevant text from both versions of the game just in case there's a difference (haven't beat my first game of UQM yet).

Checked the Melnorme thing. Here's all that:

"Following the end of the war, the Androsynth began experimenting with inter-dimensional fatigue, a process related to your faster-than-light drive but involves dimensions far more alien than hyperspace. They had just made a major breakthrough when they were wiped out by a race called the Orz who seemingly appeared out of nowhere. Actually, we don’t know what the Orz did to the Androsynth – They’re just all gone."

Anybody ever wonder if maybe the Melnorme are also the survivors of that Mael-Num race from the Sentient Milieu?

I heard that before, and some sources I have read just accept it as a fact.

I still like to think that some of the Androsynth escaped and are out there some where.(ofcourse this is because the Androsynth are my favorite race)

My argument against this is the creators FF & PR3 had repeately said that the Orz were to have some sort of malevolent air about them. Something bad was going to happen when they were taken into quasi-space which was thrown out and something about them in the sequel. However, as to what they had in mind, like the number of licks to the center of a tootsie roll pop, the world may never know.

*cry*

I think that most of us agree on that.


But, why are you so sure that the Orz didn't eat the Androsynth?
It's sure that the Androsynth were defeated by the Orz, probably in the way you said above, but we don't know what happened after that. The Orz may have eaten/cloned/whatever the Androsynth, like guesst said.

Of course, it's only a possibility.

Because, like XR4-IT, I happen to like the Androsynth and don't subscribe to the idea that they have somehow "become" the Orz (and in the process lost certain lingual abilities) or that they were consumed and are forever extinct as a race.

The other thing that bothers me about  peoples' views on the 'synth is that they are all homosexual. Why is this? Because the entire race is male? I believe there may be a certain percentage of them that might possibly develop such desires, but as far as I recall, they were sterile and could only make clones of themselves. One would think Hsien Ho would've removed the desire to reproduce as to let the Androsynth focus more on their scientific, athletic and aesthetic aspects of life. With no desire or motive (or ability, for that matter!) to attempt procreation, why try?

I know, I know...the pink triangle. IMO, the Androsynth used this symbol as it was used before; a symbol of breaking from the norm and tradition. It symbolized their escape from that which held them and set themselves apart as a distinct and unified group of superhumans.

EDIT: Fixed grammatical errors. Whee, four hours of sleep!

I wonder how hard it would be for the Androsynth to genetically engineer some fertile clones that would allow them to reproduce naturally.

Though I now that I think about this the Androsynth might be against this idea; being proud of the fact that they are all clones. However they might not be against the idea as well; because they, being scientists might want to see what would happen to their genes if they allowed regular meiosis to occur and also how it would look after the production of a zygote.

Any thoughts?

#StarControl IRC chat - 10-18-1998
Paul Reich / Fred Ford / Dan Nicholson (Fwiffo = Paul and Fred , Maelcum_ = Dan Nicholson)
Logged by Stilgar -- visit the #StarControl homepage @ http://starcontrol.obscurity.net
This abridged version by Chad D. -- visit the The Pages of Now & Forever @ http://starcontrol.gamestats.com/
[SNIP]
<LordR-man> Fwiffo- What really happened to the Androsynth in sc2?
<Fwiffo> In regards to the Androsynth: They were snagged by the entity who/which projected its fingers into our dimension (which looked to us as the Orz.)
[SNIP - reorder]
<_Stilgar> Fwiffo- was it your intention to make the Orz the "bad guys" in StarControl 3?
<Fwiffo> In our rambling thoughts about SC3 we did seriously consider having the Orz assume a much larger and more ominous role, opposed to the return of the Precursors.

They're sterile. Unless they find some way to artificially create sperm and egg, nothing of the sort is going to happen.

They could try capturing some Earthlings to use there parts, or they could alter the genes of a new batch of clones so that the new batch would not be sterile.

Though I guess that they would have to capture some Earthlings just to see what changes had been made to their genes that made them sterile, and then fix it.

The Androsynth are probably happy just cloning themselves, not doing things the messy way the Earthlings do. The only reason for them to try to reproduce naturally, again would purely be for scientific curiosity.   

Yea-ha-ha-ha. "Scientific curosity." Sure. "Hey baby, let's go alter our gene's, for science." Don't think too much about that, being as the scene is two asexual creatures hitting on each other in a blazer bar. Of course, if you could just take a serum and have the appropiate parts appear that could lead for some interesting rendesvous. "I want the male serum this time. I'm getting tired of you being done before I even get started."

So that whole Talnya scene was just "biological research" eh? Did you play doctor alot as a child?

Wow that cracked me up!

And I don’t quite know how to respond with out getting myself in trouble. I’ll just leave it at that. ;)

Ok, this is what i make of the clues in the game:

The Androsynth are extinct. There are no survivors in the galaxy. This hapened as a direct result of tampering with a precursor artefact to open "rifts" to another dimension.

Melnorme and Arilou are directly accusing the Orz. Those are also both interdimensional races. Besides you find traces of "exo-suit combat" at the surface. We can pretty sure say the Orz attacked the Androsynth.

The Orz has indeed destroyed (the word genocide comes to mind) the Androsynth homeworld and made a new home in their zone of control (not on the planet however). Obviously it was a pretty violent fight, all cities are blasted, you find evidence of lots of nuclear weapons being used.

The Orz describes itself as multidimensional being with the Orz, as we see them, being "fingers" and "light reflections", some kind of fish-collective if you want to think about it that way, with no sense of individual thought.

The Orz  becomes hostile if you interrogate it about the Androsynth. It is responsible and knows this damm well, frankly they want nobody else to be aware of it, maybe there is even more to it. They do not refrain from killing other beings for that purpose. Maybe it is forced to do it.

The Orz has not taken over the Androsynth, it destroyed them. But the entity(s?) on the planet seems to be very capapable of attacking the mind directly as well as physically, without using any "light reflections", you do NOT fight fishes in exoskeletal armor down there, more like... ghosts.  Or demons. Whatever it is, you do not want to be around there.

Be it for the rift or because the Orz mastermind entiety is located on that planet (but i doubt that). Orz do not use psychic powers in combat, nor are they invisible, that is limited to ONLY that planet. It makes one think if that is Orz at all. There would be no need for battlearmor, starships and water "atmosphere" in the bridge, right?

There is more to it than just fish, but its not a Dynarri. The Melnorme and Arilou have physical bodies as well, despite being extradimensional. Something very sinsister was going here indeed.

So we have the entiety(s?) on that planet, where the rift was opened and the Orz in space. And we can figure the Orz took that road and left the planet. The question is simply: how are those things on the surface releated to the Orz? There are no Orz colonies. It came through that rift, blasted the entire population and left for space.

Maybe its simply that the rift is still open and the planet is roamed by something else now, something the Orz fled from with the Orz being simply the first, fleeing form their "hurt" world of invisible demons.

Something that made me think is the idea you are only visible for those nonphysical attackers if you are aware of them. The Arilou tell you about that. Its no coincidence that the researchers get attacked as they begin to UNDERSTAND what actually happened (examining the Androsynth datafiles).

And indeed the Orz do not open fire on other races on sight, quite on the contrary. Also they give you a warning not to ask more about Androsynth, only if really pushed hard they DO attack. Its far from being the evil mastermind invading the galaxy, annihilating everything in its path (thats what the Kor-Ah role is).

What was different with the Androsynth?

They were doing RESEARCH on transdimensional rifts. They were AWARE. And pose therefore a threat of being detected by those things the Orz was fleeing from, luring it in this dimension. If you ask to much you become also a THREAT to them, because you investigate as well, to aquire that knowledge.

But the Orz does not want to draw any attention of those things on the planets surface. Thats why they did not leave that area of space, they are GUARDING it, containing whatever horrors are down there from crossing over any more than they are already.

So there they are, unable to explain ANYTHING without luring those things further in the dimension. Unable to make allies... except maybe... if somebody is really desperate enough to ignore that they annihilated a race without asking any questions.

Then you will get a formidable ally. And they will not betray you like backbone laking mollusks.

The Andros might also wish to shuffle their DNA
to avoid plague. Having a mixed gene pool can
prevent a single disease from wiping out a culture.

Good point.


As to Dred’s comment you still can’t prove that some Androsynth did not get away. I think the Androsynth are clever enough to hid themselves if the know some thing is after them.

Like I’ve said before I like the Androsynth too much to believe there all gone.

The Androsynth were not destroyed:
http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=2867.msg36742#msg36742
More info:
<_Stilgar> <ORZ> Q:What was your ideas for the hypothetical Sequal?
<Fwiffo> We never had to settle on an idea, because we never got that close.  But we were thinking about those missing Androsynth.

I've always theorized that just as the fishies are Orz *fingers*, the things on the planet are the *organs* that Orz can use to *slide* others that it can smell (assuming that person is aware of it), likely a *mouth-nose* or something similar.  Thus, if people fight it, they probably get cut on the *teeth*.

The Orz "snagged" (tear, break, hinder, destroy or catch?) the Androsynth, and fought something on the surface. It's possible that the Androsynth tampered with some stuff and the Orz had to go in and slap them on their little plastic fingers.

I seriously doubt that a species capable of interstellar travel (and in this case possibly a strong adaptability to different environments) could be utterly destroyed.

Personally, I think most of the mysteries should remain, maybe 80% of them or so. Mystery is often worth more than 'clever' explainations. I think it's okay to elaborate some on of the mysteries though, maybe hint at possible explainations. The Orz and Precursor work better if they're not explained that much more. The Mycon could be elaborated a bit, aswell as the extinct (or not) species like burvixe and Gg. Basically the less known mystery, the more you can elaborate on it, IMHO. Less chance of wrecking things and dissapointing people, while still giving some stuff to find out about.

As for the 'Them' and Androsynth deal, well, if there's any other Androsynths out there, they might have been 'severed from the hive' like Borg and not aware of the fate of their brothers.

There's nothing wrong with explaining mysteries in a sequel. But good story telling will replace one mystery with another. (Like X-Files, only with more possibility of variety.) However, we don't have a sequel and pretty much no hope of one. So at the moment Star Control's sequels fall into the category of unresolvable forum debate.

I just had a thought. We know from SC3 that the Precursors made themselves non sentient to avoid the eternal ones.  (If I remembered correctly). Then they keep doing so again and again to survive the onslaught on all sentient beings. Doesnt it sound a bit like the Matrix ? Dejavu

What on earth dose that have to do with the Androsynth?

Or Starcontrol canon material?

what that last has to do with SC2 canon? Well, one COULD argue that the Matrix borrowed/plagiarised the concept from SC2... but then ask me anything about the matrix and its lackluster sequels and you'll get a highly biased and prejudiced remark, so don't.

The androsynth went too far into IDF research, thus allowing the 'outsider' to *smell* them. Fine, bye androsynth. Pity, as they seemed like such nice guys...

The arilou claimed to change OUR *smell* to protect us - probably from this 'outsider' or another, similar threat. Let us assume that the vague threat of the arilou is the same as the orz 'outsider'.

I think it would be very interesting indeed to know WHEN the arilou changed our *smell* - if it was after the androsynth left AND after they got *smell*ed by the 'outsider' - well, that's a no-brainer.
If AFTER the departure but BEFORE the disappearance, or before BOTH - there goes the concept the arilou changing our *smell* in reaction, but it presents the possibility of the arilou changing our *smell* in PROaction.

The possibility also occurs that the arilou interference here on earth wasn't so much with the probing and midnight disappearances, but instead the arilou visiting research facilities to play silly buggers with research records - in the name of keeping us safe and ignorant.

If true... bastards. the utter, utter bastards. (the thought occurs that if I lived in a universe where merely knowing something will get me sucked into an alternate dimension and munched, I won't even live long enough to be cloned)

we've ruled out *smell* being DNA-related, I think.

So far, actually, all pointers point at *smell* as being knowledge. Specifically, knowledge relating to the 'outsider'. So, the more *smell* one has, the stronger one's *odour* is to the 'outsider', right up to the point where *odour* becomes *miasma* or similar. I think that once the 'outsider' can't tolerate the *stink* anymore he/she/they/it goes and gets the shovel.

Bye bye androsynth.

Oh, yeah, the one reason I like the androsynth is because they hate(d) humanity - and for damn good reason. If I had to choose sides, I'd choose androsynth purely because I dislike my own species intensely. (I need a word that is more emphatic than 'misanthrope.')
The other reason is because androsynth are supposed to have this thing for knowledge, science, technology and the advancement/furtheration thereof. Our own species seemes more concerned with $$$ and/or ideology. Usually a vicious, unholy blend. Enough politics - I'm starting to sicken myself.

So - I move that we hunt down this 'outsider' and torture it to tell us where the androsynth are - then kill it. Then we found a massive universal empire dedicated to the furtheration of knowledge, science and technology - and the summary obliteration of anyone who refuses to bow down to the Emperor-God, or whatever.

That's it!

'Reality abberations', 'the Mosquito Mange', and ghosts, poltergiests and other malevloent superatural creatures.

Though fwiff did say that the orz are directly responsible, the reasons behind these searches (and, I believe, their direct connection to the appearance of whatever they were fighting) makes me wonder...

Weren't the androsynth constantly wearing headsets that connected them to their main computers? I think the "Androsynth became the Orz" theory is plausible.

Ok, been reading this and feel oddly compelled to break my ongoing lurk and toss my 2 credits in...

Arilou changing our *smell*
  Given that they claim to have visited/known the "first human"  whatever they did to the human species was probably along the lines of some deep, fundamental change to our bodies/minds/auras?  Though they warn that the Orz are not to be trusted, neither do they directly warn against any contact, exploration, as they do when they tell us our ignorance is out best armor against whatever they were hiding us from.

Orz as a single entity.
  Probably so.  Given that they claim to be *many fingers* and not *light reflections* what we see is our minds best guess as to whatever they/it happen to be.  Though given this why the *fingers* would need so many starships and combat vac-suits is beyond me.  Unless it's trying to blend in better?

Androsynth
  I think it's likely that there are Androsynth survivors somewhere in the layers of hyper/quasi space.  Seeing as the Ta'alo have managed to survive their own supposed extinction, as the Orz will tell you, the Androsynth may have managed to evac a fleet or two of ships to some other level of space.  Or perhaps the Orz are keeping them trapped in whatever level they themselves emerged from?  Seeing as all remains of their civilzation are ruined cities on their homeworld, no wrecked ships anywhere, no signs of any orbital installations,  those ships had to go Somewhere.  That or the Orz are really thourough when they want to be...

anyhow, this is all just my personal guesses from what i got out of the game.

went through my vulpecula savegame

If you keep on with the Orz statements 'I'm still not sure on exactly who you are or where you're from' and/or 'nice to see you again I think' and read the words carefully:

*become*. 'You will also *become*' or words to that effect. Strong pointer for the andros BECOMING orz. scary.
The taalo went to *pretty space* I think. We're in *heavy space*. So the Orz and/or the outsider are pan-dimensional beings. Intriguing. *pretty space* intrigues me, though - wouldn't one possible reason for *pretty space* be that it is some form of 'afterlife' or 'heaven'? They went into *pretty space* because dnyarri were chasing them - dnyarri sleep now so now Orz chase them. I think that's what the orz rep said. Dnyarri sleep - refers to the UQ stripping dnyarri of sentience. but I digress

The taalo and *pretty space*. Either the taalo were annihilated - which is true according to melnorme and urquan - or the taalo developed IDF tech on their own - either as research for research sake, or to flee the dnyarri a la androsynth leaving earth through a 'great big red hole in space.'

getting back to the arilou - why on earth (or off it) would they give two hoots about another alien race? Why try to protect it? What is THEIR ulterior motive? And why don't the Orz like the arilou, or arilou the orz?

Then again, if you really want to get nitpicky about it, one could argue that everything the Orz said could be tossed out.  It could be that the translation, gibbery though it is, is completely wrong.  I don't think it's too far a stretch, givin the Orzs' extreme alien-ness.  After all, the computer admits to making best fist with no guarantee of accuracy for the *words*, so far as we know everything else is off too.  Doubtful from a gameplay perspective, but i do enjoy my paranoid theories from time to time.

paranoid theories are fun. conspiracy theories more so.

the Orz speaking unmitigated gibberish with highly-inaccurate *lingual best-fits*... hmmm...

Oh, well, so much for that concept. I don't know. I just DON'T KNOW! AARGH!

Despite not knowing anything about how the translator works, I put forward the notion that despite no guarantee of accuracy, the word was placed there by the computer for a reason.  Now, if we only knew why...

The Interesting part as I see it is that the computer knows what Orz is saying (meaning that the Precursors understood  the concepts), but that we don't have words (or even phrases) for the lingual best-fits.

Though the idea that the computer has complete understanding is perfectly plausable, I wonder.  Perhaps it can't translate because of some sort of syntax or linguistic concept it hasn't encountered before or can't decipher.

To try to be more clear, let's say in encounters phoneme X.  This phoneme follows MOST but not ALL of the conventions (according to the translator) for a similar word.  Hence it gives us a 'best-fit' and leaves the log of errors for a linguist to sort out.

Eh, this is all pie in the sky anyway;  The theory behind universal translation was, to my knowledge, disproved in the early nineties.  Along with AI, it became one of the great dissapointments in computing science.

Then again who knows.  Wrong once, could be wrong twice. :3

This is a minor digression from the main theme, so please bear with me.

Lately, !rumour! has it that there is new hope for AI with what technology is doing these days. Personally, though, I wonder...

personally, I think the Orz are a single entity with many manefestations. I think this was what happened in sc3, but so many people hate it it's hard to tell if it it still canonical. but a lot in sc2 would suggest that.

someone may have said this before in pages 2 or 3, but the Arilou once said something about they catch *nngnn* at *easy places*, and then let them go because *nngnn* don't like to be confined. Also, perhaps Orz is  an "energy being" for lack of a better title, that feeds off of the energy from the races it uses its *toys* on.  Are *nngnn* a form of energy, or a liveing being of some kind? Orz comes from *heavy space* where it might have destroyed all the sentient life there with its *toys*, so the Arilou have tried to keep it in *Heavy space*, where it may eventually perish from not feeding off of energy. However, Orz finally broke out of *heavy space* because the Androsynth made a hole directly into *heavy space*, which it found and began the feeding process. however Orz must not be omnipotent as it is possible for it to be destroyed by the Khor-Ah on their rampage if you don't finish the game fast enough.

these are some of my theorys. and lastly, perhaps as a way to feed of the unknowing sentient races better, Orz pretends to not be able to tell them anything about itself or of the race they just "ate", instead of unwilling, and manages to gain the trust of several races. this tied to its powerful battleships which can destroy the "edible" races enemys, could gain it trust quickly.

So can your computer REALLY not translate the messages?

"Heavy space" is here while the place the Orz comes from seems to be "pretty space". And the Orz tells you that it is one being with many physical manifestations itself in the game. Quote:


That is *funny*. You think you *see* Orz but Orz are not *light reflections*.
Maybe you think Orz are *many bubbles* too. It is such a joke.
Orz are not *many bubbles* like *campers*. Orz are just Orz.
I am Orz. I am one with many *fingers*.
My *fingers* reach through into *heavy space* and you *see* *Orz bubbles*
but it is really *fingers*.
Maybe you do not even *smell*? That is sad.
*Smelling* *pretty colors* is the best *game*.


"One with many fingers" seems pretty clear for orz-speak. :) So, 'we' are 'bubbles' (seperate beings) while the Orz is one being manifesting in many physical places of 'heavy space' at once.

Alternatively, we are made of many bubbles (cells/atoms/whatnot), whereas the Orz is something completely different.

I've always interpreted *bubbles* as being cells/atoms as well. It's the *translation* that makes the most sense in that context.

I can just imagine FF and PR3 sitting back and going "Look at what we've created!"  when they see fans of their marvellous game have a lengthy discussion about a topic such as this :D

This is brilliant!

Also, does anyone have that archive of Star Control History text files?  I had a copy  of it but I can't find it anymore :(.

I personally believe the Androsynth were at least not COMPLETELY destroyed...  There must be some left somewhere...  I think the 'becoming' Orz theory holds a lot of ground.

I guess I forgot which *space* was which. and I thought I read this through pretty well...

almost all of my ideas were already said here  :P.

Star Control history files? Tell me more... like where I can find these...

They're on the Pages of Now and forever: http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/history/ (http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/history/). Note that some entries have a "next page" link.

Nope, that's not them!

The files I'm talking about give an actual history of the Star Control universe, going right from the Sentient Milieu, through the development of man, of Androsynth, etc. through to when they join the Alliance and fight for the Chenjesu, and so on.

Edit:  Just googled it and found them!

http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/scwc/completehistory.shtml

I didn't see a link to it on the site you sent me, apologies!

That's all described in the manual.

Well I first read it in text files years ago, I don't know where my manual is but I originally got SC2 back in the day when I only read manuals if I had to :).

Now, of course, I love reading histories behind games and stuff.  Mostly while I'm at work, like right now ;).

Holy crap, how did I not know about that until now?

Reading time!

Thanks!