The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: guesst on April 14, 2006, 09:13:15 pm



Title: We demand...
Post by: guesst on April 14, 2006, 09:13:15 pm
Okay, we're all thinking it. UQM sequel's looming on the horizion, (maybe it's just a truck stop, but it could be an UQM sequel) and while we're all trying to be cool and let FF & PR3 have the reigns, there's that little nagging voice in the back of our head that says "If it has/doesn't have _______ there's no way it'll be good."

So, what little ommision or blunder would ruin UQM2 for you? What little thing would make UQM2 rock for you?

I'll start.

First of all, storyline. Black Spathi Squadrin must be there somehow. I don't care if I get to play them or not, but I'm telling you, I'm going to be looking for them the whole time and if they're not there to be found I'm gonna mope.

The Mark II has to be there and I have to fly it at some point. If I can't fly it until the final battle of the game, I could live with that.

Gameplay. Space combat is a must. I can't see how the top-down combat of SC/UQM can be effectivly translated into 3D, and if they try they're going to have to do a bang up job on it. But personally I'd go with fighting on a 2D plane, even if you change the angle a bit. (Kinda like what SC3 did, but without the suck).

I don't know if they're planning on having the conversation portion of the game again, but I think that's why UQM rocked so hard. I'd be surprised if they ignore it.

Graphics. I don't see how the game can survive without 3D graphics in some way, and that's fine. But if the graphics are dark and "realistic" I'm not going to enjoy it. The brightness and visibility of SC/UQM's graphics is what sold it. Keep the graphics bright and colorful, and I'll be happy.

Okay, I'm done. But to be totally honest, I will buy and play whatever FF & PR3. I will extend every effort to like it. I just hope they don't ask too much of me.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Deus Siddis on April 14, 2006, 09:37:09 pm
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But personally I'd go with fighting on a 2D plane,

Prepare to be let down on this point. If they do it, I think there is a 75% chance things will not be restricted to 2D travel.


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But if the graphics are dark and "realistic" I'm not going to enjoy it. The brightness and visibility of SC/UQM's graphics is what sold it. Keep the graphics bright and colorful, and I'll be happy.

20% chance they make it a little darker. The rest is they keep it about the same.


Now here's another big question, would you prefer an Action/Strategy like SC1 or an Action/RPG like SC2 or a different genre, altogether?


One thing I would really like to see (in a number of games, actually) are advanced planets (terrain, ecosystems, machinery, etc,) perhaps a little like what Spore is trying to do only not quite as far (too much work for one game.)


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: XR4-IT on April 14, 2006, 09:53:11 pm
I would of course like to see the Androsynth in this game, Or at lest learn more about what happened to them.

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I don't know if they're planning on having the conversation portion of the game again, but I think that's why UQM rocked so hard. I'd be surprised if they ignore it. 

I think that this was the best part of SC2. I love getting to know each of the races.
 
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Now here's another big question, would you prefer an Action/Strategy like SC1 or an Action/RPG like SC2 or a different genre, altogether?

I like the Action/RPG feel of SC2.

One thing I did like about SC3 was the fact that you could build colonies. I think that in this new game that you should be able to capture or destroy colonies. 


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Culture20 on April 15, 2006, 12:47:37 am
If they absolutely must use 3D somewhere, I'd use it on the planet, a la "Populous: the Beginning", a small 3D planet, slightly larger than that of the one in "the Little Prince", on which 3D mountains and oceans might hide riches and 3D beasties. 

Space Combat could be done with OpenGL, but limited to a 2D plane.

Network Play   ...duh

An SC1 portion would be nice.

If they added a portion of the game which was half MMORPG and half RTS (many units are real players, and a few players are chosen at random when they log in to have a "Command view" where they order people just like in a RTS.  The players in ships would see arrows indicating where they should go, and target reticles on designated targets) , I'd love it, and it would follow TFB's history of genre-bending to make spectacular games.

Of course, an RPG is needed for completeness.

Tarnoon    I want the &#*% beetles.  My life is not complete without the beetles.   :'(

It's been said, but:  Configurable MarkII, preferably an Aircraft (Spacecraft) Carrier.  Oh, and please, no cheesy rebuilding on Vela, we _know_ there are no minerals, and the factory control computer is gone.  :P

If there are colonies, make them just as interactive as the colonies in SC1:  Nil.  Micromanaging cities is for a game where I don't care about a plot.  It distracts from action as well.

If something was meant to be a joke, or campaign color, please don't bring it to life just because people expect it.  (Precursors, return of Chenjesu, Gg found surpisingly alive, etc).

The Captain.  Not Zelnick, The Captain.   ;)


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: guesst on April 15, 2006, 01:42:05 am
Now here's another big question, would you prefer an Action/Strategy like SC1 or an Action/RPG like SC2 or a different genre, altogether?

I'm surprised I have to say this anymore. But, one more time, for the people who haven't heard it from me before....

Take Star Control 1's stragety map. Throw in Star Control 2's conversation screens before engagements. Add a bit of Advanced Wars-like missions/story advancement. Maybe even AW's CO powers to liven up the battle field. Use true 3D camera rotations to clarify the stragety map. Thow in a multi-branching storyline with multple endings. Bake for 6 months to 2 years at 365 degrees. Watch guesst die from joy.

What this plan lacks is customizability. One of the best things about UQM was that your main ship felt like it was yours. It wasn't too pretentious in it's customizability, which was good because I'm the sort of person that will spend all day customizing units if I have the ability and never get to the actual game. I don't know put customizability in this scheme, but to be sucessfull I think it defonately needs to be figured out.

There are other threads I have on these and PONAF where I delve into great detail about other things, but in a nut shell, if I were designing Star Control 3, or UQM2 or whatever, that's what I'd do.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Megagun on April 15, 2006, 03:10:17 pm
Well, but you're a nutcase, aren't you, Guesst? :P

What I'd do? Take a good look at Space Rangers 2!

I'd make the universe more vibrant, ALIVE.. The UQM universe, apart from the homeworlds and a few ships in hyperspace, didn't really feel alive.. Or it did, but the ships you met in space were all the same with their conversations, etc..

So what I'd do, is take Space Rangers 2's Othership-AI system (which makes AI ships have real lifecycles, etc) and put that in UQM2/SC4 (I'd rather call it SC4, really)...

2d battles generated in 3d would be neat.
Escorts joining in a battle would be neat.
Starcon-styled "Help help I'm getting my ass kicked please somekindafriend join me in ze battle by hitting 2nd player controls!" stuff would be neat.

It'd be neat to play as Zelnick.. Or maybe get the option to play as a new captain or as Zelnick at the start of the game... (developing time in years++)

So yes.. UQM, with more vibrant AI in-system ships, and sidequests.. We need sidequests.. A lot of them.. Just look at what quests did in Space Rangers 2, and copy that..

Example of a quest thing: "Hello there, Human captain! We know that your schedule is kind of not forgiving.. oh by the way are you REALLY going to join this year's Frungy championships? Nice.. Anyways, where was I.. ah.. right.. Some bastard stole our Queen's royal ship.. And we need YOU to return it to us... Unfortunately, there isn't much information we can give you, apart from the recording of a conversation between one of our Terminator starships and the Queen's ship.. Here, let me play it for you:

Terminator: Identify yourselves, captains of Yehat Force One!
YFO: <mumble> <giggle> Err. We're just.. errr.. technicians who modified the engine a bit and are now giving the ship for a spin a bit.. Yeah... <giggle>

So.. yeah... That's all we can give you.. I hope you can take it back.. Oh wait! Almost forgot! We've got an elite team of Yehat Warriors that'll aid you in the recapturing, and a gift: the Stunner gun. This baby will render an enemy's engine totally useless... Pretty great weapon, made by our finest Yehat technicians, and best of all it's totally 100% un-animal-tested...

You: Err.. How am I going to take over Yehat Force One, then?
Yehat guy: Hm, you don't have a boarding ship? Err.. I guess we can give you one for free... I think... Yeah... We can, it seems.. There, it should be there in a second. Use it wisely, and when you return with the Yehat Force One, we'll see if you can keep the thing or not.."
Ofcourse, this text should be Yehaterified, since it doesn't include BRAAK and HOOT etc yet.. :P

But.. yeah.. quests sound nice.. And ofcourse you'd need the ability to do whatever you want, I guess... Like when you capture the Yehat Force One, you should be able to keep it and add it to your fleet, but ofcourse making the Yehat kind of mad.. :P


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Halleck on April 15, 2006, 04:11:05 pm
It would be nice to have the Black Spathi and the mark2 in there somewhere... but who said you'll even be playing as the captain?
It would also be nice to find out some more about the precursors- and have them not be cows.

But my foremost wish is for TFB to disregard our clamoring and make the best game they are capable of. If they spent their time trying to meet every little demand from every fan, the game would probably suffer as a result.


Title: We would like. . .
Post by: Deus Siddis on April 15, 2006, 05:18:44 pm
I'd feel a little let down if the Precursor's team wasn't offered the job for the music writing/recording in this potential Star Control game. They are qualified many, many times over, and they've down a lot to increase the popularity of UQM. The same goes for the UQM coding team. Either way, I think it would be honorable for both groups to at least make it into the "Special Thanks" section of the credits.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Halleck on April 15, 2006, 10:01:30 pm
It would be nice if they gave the volunteers a nod, yes. I'm not as sure about actually having them work on the project... again, it's a complicated legal situation. They may be under non-disclosure agreements, etc. with their publisher. Also, it doesn't seem fair to me that they would ask people to work for free on a project that they would be making money off of. (Unless you meant paid jobs- which is probably even more complicated.)

Still, perhaps they will do something like the original sc2 mod music competition, which allowed for both outside contribution and monetary compensation.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: TiLT on April 15, 2006, 10:16:56 pm
If TFB involved people from the UQM project, I don't see how that would be any more complicated than if they hired any other external people to do the job. If they actually used assets from UQM, *that* would complicate things, but TFB wouldn't do that.

Thank you for the vote of confidence, by the way. Being involved in a sequel to Star Control 2 would be like a dream come true, but I suspect it'll have to stay a dream.

And to stay on topic for a change: What would I demand from a Star Control 2 sequel? Only that TFB does a faithful sequel, which I know they will. Even if they change some of the fundamental gameplay from SC2, I'd be happy as long as it's FUN. I fear a lot of the hardcore Star Control fans are expecting a game completely similar to SC2. My hope is that TFB won't give in to the demands of these fans, and instead make the sequel THEY want to make.

2D, 3D, action, strategy, RPG... Whatever they decide upon, they'll have my money and my support. :)


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Culture20 on April 16, 2006, 12:24:17 am
If they spent their time trying to meet every little demand from every fan, the game would probably suffer as a result.
For some reason that reminded me of the car that Homer Simpson's brother Herb had him design.  Leaving deisgn to professionals (and the series' original creators) can be a good thing.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Deus Siddis on April 16, 2006, 05:45:55 am
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They may be under non-disclosure agreements, etc. with their publisher.


Simple. Then anyone TFB hired would have to sign said agreements, as well.


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Also, it doesn't seem fair to me that they would ask people to work for free on a project that they would be making money off of. (Unless you meant paid jobs- which is probably even more complicated.)

I meant paid, and I don't see the complication of hiring proven, motivated, loyal professionals for a commercial project.


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Being involved in a sequel to Star Control 2 would be like a dream come true, but I suspect it'll have to stay a dream.

Well, not too long ago, just having TFB mention making a Star Control game was a dream. In a year's time, people might be looking back on how it was once just a dream that a new Star Control game was under development at TFB. And around that time, you might be having to play dumb on this forum, because you had to sign a non-disclosure agreement before being hired onto the new project. Who knows what the future will bring. ;)


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: EEG on April 16, 2006, 03:43:12 pm
I vote "yes" to hiring the precursors.


Title: We demand...
Post by: Deus Siddis on April 16, 2006, 10:15:27 pm
They also should give Greg Johnson of TJE a ring. If he is not too busy, his input will probably be necessary to receate the same "feel" of the first two games.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Halleck on April 17, 2006, 09:20:54 am
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Also, it doesn't seem fair to me that they would ask people to work for free on a project that they would be making money off of. (Unless you meant paid jobs- which is probably even more complicated.)
I meant paid, and I don't see the complication of hiring proven, motivated, loyal professionals for a commercial project.
I was thinking more about the problems of hiring people from a team that mostly live outside of the U.S., when the majority of TFB's employees work in their office in California.

Anything is possible though, I suppose.  :)


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: BIGpaul on April 17, 2006, 09:53:32 am
Black spathies good idea brining back Zelnik also good idea but just for a bit in the intro maybe and have an unidentified ship kill him and destroy his ship obviously, then 25 years later a syreen ship comes to earth looking for zelnik but its not a syreen(girl) its a man who strangely ressembles Zelnik and strangely his mother is the captain syreen and then the sory begins....or does it! ......yes.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: TiLT on April 17, 2006, 10:35:07 am
Please, may I suggest that any story ideas are NOT shared here? By speculating on story elements this early in such a project, you are putting TFB in a difficult position. Imagine if one of us should stumble upon a plot that is very similar to what TFB has in mind. That person may then sue TFB after the game's release, claiming that they used his story.

Most companies, for the reason stated above, don't even read stories sent to them since they want to stay legally clean.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Draxas on April 18, 2006, 03:10:49 am
I would be thrilled to hear the music of the Precursors in an official SC sequel. I think that's the best idea proposed in this thread so far.

However, am I the only one that feels that the Black Spathi Squadron (and other elements like it) should remain amusing color text and nothing more? I figure that if you didn't run across them in SC2, it's not likely they actually exist (or perhaps ran headlong into a nasty situation and confirmed that the usual Spathi way of life is best ;)). Why make a crazy stretch to try to add them into the game?

Mind you, if TFB throw together a plausible explanation for them and does add them in, I won't complain. I just don't think that particular bit of humor needs to become reality.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: BIGpaul on April 18, 2006, 05:19:32 am
Ohh yeah forgot to say .....it might not be possible but that would be insane if the sequel, was available for more then just the comp, like xbox.........also more on the new game it would be awesome if you could take over someones planet and have it as your own, and build on it and protect it ....maybe but then again it might take away from the roleplaying aspect, and kinda turn it into a strategy...but stilll kindacool tho.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: guesst on April 19, 2006, 06:20:45 am
Please, may I suggest that any story ideas are NOT shared here? By speculating on story elements this early in such a project, you are putting TFB in a difficult position. Imagine if one of us should stumble upon a plot that is very similar to what TFB has in mind. That person may then sue TFB after the game's release, claiming that they used his story.

Most companies, for the reason stated above, don't even read stories sent to them since they want to stay legally clean.

You're right. Although I don't expect TFB to read this thread. Infact, I tried to so name it that it wouldn't be read by them. But at the same time I planned not to detail my personal hopes and dreams for the sequel and went and did it in my second post on this thread. What can I say, I'm weak. And being called a nutcase for it, so meh.

Oh, and this is going back even futher...
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Prepare to be let down on this point. If they do it, I think there is a 75% chance things will not be restricted to 2D travel.

20% chance they make it a little darker. The rest is they keep it about the same.

Did you know that 67.8% of statistics quoted are made up on the spot. No, really.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Halleck on April 19, 2006, 01:09:46 pm
Maybe not have the BSS be actual characters, but an unlockable "easter egg" involving them (maybe an eluder w/ different stats and a new paint job) would be cool.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: guesst on April 19, 2006, 08:21:24 pm
I don't know. If the BBS are not in the game then we have no Spathi! Remember, they slave shielded themselves so with the exception of whatever Spathi you have in your fleet the BBS are the only Spathi you could possibly meet!

I mean, the ship was way over powered for it's size and price, but that's why we loved 'em!


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Elerium on April 19, 2006, 08:32:01 pm
Hmmm I want the Thraddash to return, I know the perfect example of how to re-include them.

After the war of the Ilwrath and the Thraddash all of the species both genocided, but this was unbenknownst to some. The Thraddash had actually found a Precursor facility on a planet just like the Great Teacher.

Guess where this is going? :)


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: BIGpaul on April 20, 2006, 12:13:12 am
hahahah! that would be awesome. I also definetly want the thraddash back, culture 20. I dunno if they should land on a precursor planet but they should definetly try to immitate zelik and the vindicator that would be halarious.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: NECRO-99 on April 20, 2006, 07:29:17 pm
I don't know. If the BBS are not in the game then we have no Spathi! Remember, they slave shielded themselves so with the exception of whatever Spathi you have in your fleet the BBS are the only Spathi you could possibly meet!

I mean, the ship was way over powered for it's size and price, but that's why we loved 'em!

You will also remember that after the Sa-Matra was destroyed, the Chmmr went to all the fallow planets and cracked the slave shields. This is why you see Humans, Syreen and Spathi in the dreaded 3.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: AngusThermopyle on April 20, 2006, 07:47:13 pm
I have faith the PR3 and FF will come up with an outstanding storyline. They've done this before, so there is no reason to think they won't do it again (if they get the chance!).

I think the really interesting issue is how to handle combat. I'm sure that, with vasty superior graphic/computing capability compared to SC2, they might be tempted to significanly alter ship battles. Could it be done in 3D and still preserve the original balance and strategy? Will it still be a 1 vs 1 duel or fleets of ships duking it out? I of course lean towards leaving it in the traditional 2D, 1 vs 1, combat mode. But I'm willing to trust the creators should they choose some new innovation...


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: TiLT on April 20, 2006, 08:38:59 pm
I hope they do a multiship system with both smaller fighters (as in the previous games) and bigger "capital ships" where applicable. Of course, you could still fight 1 vs 1 with such a system.

I also hope they do it 2.5D, ie. in 3D where all movement is on a flat 2D plane. Actually, I'd be surprised if this isn't what they end up doing.


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Deus Siddis on April 20, 2006, 10:49:08 pm
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I hope they do a multiship system with both smaller fighters (as in the previous games) and bigger "capital ships" where applicable. Of course, you could still fight 1 vs 1 with such a system.

I also hope for multi-ship battles. What do you mean by "Capital Ships" though? Bigger than the Mark 1, Dreadnaughts, Avatars, etc.?


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I also hope they do it 2.5D, ie. in 3D where all movement is on a flat 2D plane. Actually, I'd be surprised if this isn't what they end up doing.

This being a high-budget commercial endeavor, the question is whether this kind of game would sell well enough, amoungst today's gamers?


Title: Re: We demand...
Post by: Draxas on April 20, 2006, 11:27:08 pm
You will also remember that after the Sa-Matra was destroyed, the Chmmr went to all the fallow planets and cracked the slave shields. This is why you see Humans, Syreen and Spathi in the dreaded 3.

Truth. Actually, one of the very small number of things about SC3 that I liked was the very idea of a planet full of Spathi wailing in unison as their cerfully crafted slave shield vanishes and the Chmmr broadcast their message of freedom. A priceless moment. ;D

As for sales, I say it should have no trouble; I like to think we're the vocal minority, and look how many of us there are. ;)