The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Mackus on June 04, 2006, 11:22:53 am



Title: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Mackus on June 04, 2006, 11:22:53 am
How it its possible that Kohr-Ah Marauder hold 42 crewmember ???
Typical Dreadnought have 1 (one) Kzer-Za Captain and 41 slaves crewmember. I mean, how so many Kohr-Ah could stay on ship without killing each other?


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Anthony on June 04, 2006, 03:42:03 pm
I always assumed that the Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah wanted to destroy all intelligent life forms but their own...  Maybe they're programmed not to kill their own kind.

In the game, the Melnorme stated that they can't be reasoned with in any way, implying that they're in a way programmed to do genecide.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on June 05, 2006, 05:33:43 am
I know this concept of one Ur-Quan per ship has come up
a few times. However, is there actually anywhere in the
game (or manual) where it states Ur-Quan fly
their ships with slaves?


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Arrow on June 05, 2006, 12:56:34 pm
I know this concept of one Ur-Quan per ship has come up
a few times. However, is there actually anywhere in the
game (or manual) where it states Ur-Quan fly
their ships with slaves?

I'm almost positive it was written in the elongated story included with the original manual, but never referenced in the game.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: AngusThermopyle on June 05, 2006, 07:31:17 pm
The manual does state that a lone Ur-Quan (Kzer-Za) commands a slave crew. Read under the Ur-Quan section under Races (page 66).

"Aboard ship, these creatures cling to webbed ceilings with their back legs, dangling down over their controls and their slave-crew like hungry spiders.
Ur-Quan are extremely territorial and aggressive, having evolved as non-social, hunter-killers. Their territorial instincts are so strong that only one Ur-Quan is present on each Dreadnought."


It also says that when Ur-Quan meet, they have to keep a safe distance from each other, or their instincts would compel them to fight to the death.

"When Ur-Quan meet, they keep several meters between themselves, lest their instincts drive them to engage in an unarmed battle to the death."

So yeah, I too have always wondered about the Khor-Ah crew though...


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Death 999 on June 05, 2006, 08:04:36 pm
The going theory is that the Dnyarri turned down this instinct in the Kohr-Ah to enhance their effectiveness as soldiers. The Kzer-za were not similarly affected.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on June 06, 2006, 04:37:50 am
Mating must be a royal pain in the arse.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Vee-R on June 06, 2006, 05:55:26 pm
The going theory is that the Dnyarri turned down this instinct in the Kohr-Ah to enhance their effectiveness as soldiers. The Kzer-za were not similarly affected.

That seems the most logical conclusion to me. Administrators and planners (Kzer-Za) can work in isolation from each other; workers and soldiers (Kohr-Ah) need to work together by defintion, so the Dnyarri must have tampered with their territorial instincts.

Of course, if the Kohr-Ah and Kzer-Za fleets are of approximately equal size, this means that the Kohr-Ah race outnumbers the Kzer-Za by a LOT - about 42:1.  However, that is also quite acceptable logically (in a slave empire, who would you need more of - planners/administrators, or workers/soldiers? - obviously the latter).


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Elerium on June 06, 2006, 09:50:47 pm
I agree, also note that with all the losses the Kohr-Ah would take, they would have to replenish them somehow.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lance_Vader on June 08, 2006, 07:12:11 am
I have long pondered this same question, to no satisfactory conclusion.  Here's what I've come up with:

1) It can't be a non-Ur-Quan race that fills the 41 spots.  Kohr-Ah kill non-Ur-Quans on sight.

2) It can't be a machine like the Slylandro probes; if they are machines, they are still organic enough to be affected by the Syreen call.

3) It doesn't seem to be other Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah.  Although I can't rule out this possibility entirely, it doesn't seem to keep with the Kohr-Ah dialogue.  It doesn't seem right.

What's left?  I don't know.  It could be a machine derived from some inferior race, that is mechanical enough to be considered a non-threat, but organic enough to be affected by the Syreen.  That's about all I can think of.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: meep-eep on June 08, 2006, 12:43:46 pm
Ur-Quan are modular. Their arms/legs detach. ;)


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Novus on June 08, 2006, 01:26:07 pm
Ur-Quan are modular. Their arms/legs detach. ;)
That would explain the tentacles with world-domination plans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Tentacle).


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Death 999 on June 08, 2006, 04:43:34 pm
3) It doesn't seem to be other Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah.  Although I can't rule out this possibility entirely, it doesn't seem to keep with the Kohr-Ah dialogue.  It doesn't seem right.

I do agree that this doesn't fit WELL. Also, having 42 crew, each of which has a volume of roughly 10 cubic meters... it really pushes up the minimum scale of the ships, especially if we suppose that these crew members are not packed like sardines, let alone have jobs to do.

What's left?  I don't know.  It could be a machine derived from some inferior race, that is mechanical enough to be considered a non-threat, but organic enough to be affected by the Syreen.  That's about all I can think of.

Like Mmrnmrhrm?


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lance_Vader on June 08, 2006, 10:02:03 pm
Like Mmrnmrhrm?
Now there's an idea.  Obviously, it wouldn't be the Mmrnmrhrm that we know and love in our area of the galaxy, but it could be some other mechanized race, either another group of Mmrnmrhrm that were placed on the other end of the galaxy, or some other race entirely, possibly created by the Kohr-Ah themselves.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Adunaphel on June 08, 2006, 10:22:43 pm
If there ARE indeed 42 Kohr-Ah per ship, a  Marauder would absolutely dwarf a Dreadnaught. 

While the Syreen Call wouldn't affect a robotic crew, remember that the Captain of the ship is still an  Ur-Quan (who are extremely suceptible to psychic attack).  I'm guessing the Syreen could simply use their powers on the captain, who then orders his robotic crew out the air-lock  ;D





Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: 2Bad on June 09, 2006, 01:34:15 am
May I be the first person to mention the concept of "suspension of disbelief", or "the suspension of realism for the sake of gameplay", I mean "crew" in SC is really more of a measure of hull strength anyway, as in real life if you fired a weapon at a ship you'd damage its hull, not necessarily kill a set number of crew. Kohr-ah need to have the same "strength" as kzer-ah ships for game balance. It does leave a rather interesting plot hole though, doesn't it...


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Art on June 09, 2006, 03:33:33 am
You're assuming that the Builders and Doers of the Slave Empire aren't better at tolerating cramped conditions than those "effete bureaucrats and scientists".


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Mackus on June 11, 2006, 01:55:03 pm
May I be the first person to mention the concept of "suspension of disbelief", or "the suspension of realism for the sake of gameplay", I mean "crew" in SC is really more of a measure of hull strength anyway, as in real life if you fired a weapon at a ship you'd damage its hull, not necessarily kill a set number of crew. Kohr-ah need to have the same "strength" as kzer-ah ships for game balance. It does leave a rather interesting plot hole though, doesn't it...
You suggest that Syreen steal hull???

I know this concept of one Ur-Quan per ship has come up
a few times. However, is there actually anywhere in the
game (or manual) where it states Ur-Quan fly
their ships with slaves?
Ur-Quan Kzer-Za MUST fly their ships with slaves, because if a 10 metre long Ur-Quan would like to fly in fighter, it (fighter) would have to be larger than Shofixti scout (in game scout is larger at least five times than fighter)


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: 2Bad on June 14, 2006, 04:44:41 am
You suggest that Syreen steal hull???

True, but what I meant was that the kohr-ah having the same amount of "crew" as the kzer-za is a game balance issue, you couldn't have the mighty kohr-ah ship with just 1 crew, it would die too easily! I agree that kohr-ah would be used to working in teams and cramp conditions, and were genetically modified to do so. And while those bastards are big, marauders don't have to store the fighters (which could easily be at least 10 cubic metres, if not more) that the dreadnaughts store, so they would be roughly the same size ships. Remember dreadnaughts carry 41 slave crew & 41 fighters.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lance_Vader on June 15, 2006, 11:25:45 pm
If there ARE indeed 42 Kohr-Ah per ship, a  Marauder would absolutely dwarf a Dreadnaught. 

While the Syreen Call wouldn't affect a robotic crew, remember that the Captain of the ship is still an  Ur-Quan (who are extremely suceptible to psychic attack).  I'm guessing the Syreen could simply use their powers on the captain, who then orders his robotic crew out the air-lock  ;D
I hadn't actually thought of that.  That would be an interesting twist and convenient solution to the plot hole.  It must be pointed out, however, that if the machines are as sentient as the Mmrnmrhrm, then the Syreen could very well target the individual machines...


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Chmmr on June 16, 2006, 12:35:59 pm
How it its possible that Kohr-Ah Marauder hold 42 crewmember ???
Typical Dreadnought have 1 (one) Kzer-Za Captain and 41 slaves crewmember. I mean, how so many Kohr-Ah could stay on ship without killing each other?

The Kohr Ah dont kill each other because the eternal doctrine. Orignally the Ur-quan were slaves and the reason that the Kzer-Ah and Kohr - Ah are killing/slaving other races is so that they will never be slaves again


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: 2Bad on June 16, 2006, 01:20:38 pm
The Kohr Ah dont kill each other because the eternal doctrine. Orignally the Ur-quan were slaves and the reason that the Kzer-Ah and Kohr - Ah are killing/slaving other races is so that they will never be slaves again

Dude didn't you read the bit about ur-quan having such strong territorial instincts that they have to have their own ships and maintain a distance of a few metres or they kill each other?

We are assuming then that if there are 42 kohr-ah on a marauder, then the kohr-ah were genetically modified by the Dnyarri to have this instinct removed, so they can work together in cramped conditions as a team.

Any race as sentient as the Mmrnmrhrm would not be allowed to live by the Kohr-ah, let alone trusted to run their ships. The kohr-ah have low tech shit, metal discs and a ring of flame, it is stated that the kohr-ah aren't technologically advanced like the kzer-za, and rely on their numbers and brute strength to destroy other races. They are also extremely paranoid and non-trusting of anything non-kohr-ah, so would not use precussor tech or robots (who could turn on them).

The kohr-ah outnumbering the kzer-za 40-1 also makes sense, as was stated ealier by Zeep-Eeep . Perhaps dreadnaughts have exactly 42 slave crew to match the original kohr-ah 42 crew, but then how did the kzer-za conquer their first slave race with only 1 crew per ship? (when a hit takes off crew...) As I said originally not very realistic but a good story anyway.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on June 16, 2006, 11:37:05 pm
Any race as sentient as the Mmrnmrhrm would not be allowed to live by the Kohr-ah, let alone trusted to run their ships.

Probably true, but...

Quote
The kohr-ah have low tech shit, metal discs and a ring of flame, it is stated that the kohr-ah aren't technologically advanced like the kzer-za, and rely on their numbers and brute strength to destroy other races.

I don't remember this ever being stated in the game anywhere. Source?

Quote
They are also extremely paranoid and non-trusting of anything non-kohr-ah, so would not use precussor tech or robots (who could turn on them).

But the Sa-Matra is OK for some reason?

Quote
The kohr-ah outnumbering the kzer-za 40-1 also makes sense, as was stated ealier by Zeep-Eeep .

Couldn't find that in anything he said, care to clarify?

Quote
Perhaps dreadnaughts have exactly 42 slave crew to match the original kohr-ah 42 crew, but then how did the kzer-za conquer their first slave race with only 1 crew per ship? (when a hit takes off crew...)

Actually, they have 41 slave crew and 1 Ur-Quan on each Dreadnought, and this is stated in the SC1 manual at the very least, and probably other sources as well.

The Ur-Quan (and several other races, ie. Melnorme) actually state that they enslaved their Milleu allies, the Faz, before beginning the first doctrinal conflict over the Mael-num homeworld. This was probably done using their old 1-crew scout ships from the Milleu days (or perhaps whatever vessels the Dnyarri forced them to design and construct during their time of enslavement), which is itself quite a testament to their ferocity and battle prowess. However, once the Faz were conquered, it's likely they the Ur-Quan used members of their species as their first batch of slave crew for their vessels, since it is not likely that they had thought through the Path of Now and Forever in enough detail yet to differentiate between fallow slaves and combat thralls. They simply took whatever population from the Faz that was necessary to crew their vessels, and encased the rest under a slave shield before setting off for the Mael-num homeworld to subjugate them.

Personally, I'm a proponent of the Kohr-Ah having sub-sentient robotic crew filling in the 41 extra slots in their vessels. This is in no small part because I like Arne's rendition of them. ;) Adunaphel's theory fills in any potential holes in the idea nicely, in my opinion; I imagine that the Kohr-Ah don't wear excruciators on a regular basis.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Adunaphel on June 17, 2006, 01:53:55 am
lol, I defended the whole "robotic crew" idea for the very same reason =P

Honestly, the Kohr-Ah may be the warrior race, but since they're doing battle in capitol ships, I don't really see why they'd need to outnumber the Kzee-Za 42 to 1.  Maybe for ground battles where they'd incur massive casulties and would need extreme numbers on their side, but still...I don't see a 10 meter long caterpillar being too terribly effective in a ground war.  Talk about a massive target...


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Orzy-man! on June 21, 2006, 07:00:02 pm
It HAS to be robotic crew. They probably bought it from the Melnorme. Here are the reasons.


#1. Who would WILLINGLY fight in an Ur-Quan fighter without flying away in it? If they were robots they would fly the ships because they were programmed to. Also, why do you think they are called AUTOMAT FIGHTERS?

#2. Robots won't necesarilly NOT be affected by Syreen. What if the hypnosis feild not only hypnotizes living things but also reprograms robots?

Those could explain how the crew COULD be robots.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on June 21, 2006, 11:33:09 pm
It HAS to be robotic crew. They probably bought it from the Melnorme. Here are the reasons.

Instead of finishing the job they tried to start (but were so rudely interrupted) before the first Doctrinal Conflict? No way.

Quote
#1. Who would WILLINGLY fight in an Ur-Quan fighter without flying away in it? If they were robots they would fly the ships because they were programmed to. Also, why do you think they are called AUTOMAT FIGHTERS?

We're talking about Kohr-Ah ships, not Kzer-Za (which are the only ones that launch fighters). Besides, it's rather well documented that those fighters are pilotd by the Ur-Quan's battle thralls.

Quote
#2. Robots won't necesarilly NOT be affected by Syreen. What if the hypnosis feild not only hypnotizes living things but also reprograms robots?

Well, probe crew isn't affected by the Syreen, and thus the logic is extended from there. It's also surmised that because the Mmrn are sentient robots, they can be affected as normal, while the computers that control a probe are obviously not sentient in the least, and so are immune. Since the Kohr-Ah would never willingly create sentient robots (and would likely exterminate their creations if they discovered that they had in error), this debate is more or less about how those non-sentient robots could be affected by the Syreen, assuming they exist at all.

Bah, that was way too much explanation for a topic that is entirely speculation by fans, to account for the idiosyncracies of a game system that was never meant to be realistic in the first place. :P


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lance_Vader on June 22, 2006, 02:15:09 am
#1. Who would WILLINGLY fight in an Ur-Quan fighter without flying away in it?
Someone who realized three things:

1) The fighter only has enough gas to get to the enemy and back, and sometimes, not even that much.

2) If he didn't get in the fighter and fight satisfactorily, then the Kzer-za captain would kill him.

3) If he did run away, he'd probably get all of a half-kilometer away before an asteroid smashed into him and he died.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Elerium on June 22, 2006, 05:42:03 pm
To be honest I think the Kohr-Ah DID outrank the amount of Kzer-Za, the reason is due to the Shofixti exploding their star system with about 25% of the Dreadnoughts in the entire fleet being in that system at the same time. :P

The Mrns are sentient robots which is why they can be affected by the Syreen. Slylandro however are just programmed bots who wander around the galaxy, say 'we come in peace'! and fry you because they were programmed wrong.

Robotic Crew? Bought from the Melnorme? I'm sorry but that is funny... The Kohr-Ah would just obliterate the Melnorme, I mean the Kohr-Ah don't bargain with anyone. Also, the Robotic Crew would be blue, but it's green (indicating sentience).

Now a point I want to make is that the Melnorme said that in the Ur-Quan's brown time, towards an atomic-age spacecraft they managed to forcibly overcome their territorial aspects. However this aspect didn't affect to other races, until they came across the Taalo. The Taalo (being rock creatures) didn't count territorially so they became the best of friends. All what I can say is that the Dynarri toned down their territorial aspects for the Kohr-Ah so that they would be better soldiers, or made them more tough to fight their territorial instincts better.

Also, a while back someone mentioned the Ur-Quan having 1 scout ship fighters back in the day. But the Melnorme said that the Dynarri packed into the ship in their hundreds before flying off to the capital Milieu planet.. Therefore, the Ur-Quan scoutships had to be reasonably BIG :)


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on June 22, 2006, 06:21:02 pm
...Or, the Dynarri, being pretty small creatures in general, just had to put up with some cramped quarters for a while. The reward of an entire intergalactic civilization to conquer was plenty motivation, I'm sure.

In one of Arne's art threads, the size of a Shofixti Scout was discussed, and it turned out that the ship was, in fact (at least according to the conclusions reached, based on some assumptions about the game), reasonably large. So I don't see too much trouble fitting a couple hundred aliens the size of a small dog inside one, assuming the Ur-Quan scout was roughly the same size. However, this brings up the question of how they had enough food, etc. to survive the trip...

As far as the numbers issue, I don't think the Shofixti incident would have much of a significant impact, unless the Kzer-Za had a very small population to begin with. After all, there is only one Ur-Quan per Dreadnought, so (assuming they don't have a ludicrous number of ships in their fleet; they are nomadic after all, and it would be that much more difficult to travel quickly with a larger fleet. Considering the power of a single "planetary siege unit," they probably don't need a huge number of ships) you have to figure that maybe 1000 Ur-Quan perished in the nova, tops. On the other hand, that equates to approximately 41,000 members of assorted slave races, to say nothing of any battle thralls present in their own ships...


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Orzy-man! on June 23, 2006, 04:18:45 am
The gas-bags said they couldn't remember, they may have been talking about the Shofixti. seriously.

"brown"

"found on their SCOUTING missions."

Could have been mistaken for Shofixti. They may have remembered them being Ur-Quan because of the Shofixti's constant blabbering about killing the Ur-Quan.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Elerium on June 23, 2006, 04:31:18 pm
Quote
"Our primary objective right now is to free ourselves from the Evil Ur-Quan."

The Ur-Quan?! The long brownish guys from the Milieu with all the eyes and arms?
They used to come visit us regularly about three Drahns ago.
They told us about all the interesting things they found from their scouting missions.
They were really nice! Why do you fight with them?

"I think you are confused. Those aren't the Ur-Quan we're talking about. Ours are green."

But the Ur-Quan were such good guys!
They had lots of interesting things to tell us about
and they never got impatient with our questions.
Hmmm. Well, I guess a lot can happen to a species in three Drahn
like turning green and evil.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lance_Vader on June 26, 2006, 08:30:03 pm
The gas-bags said they couldn't remember, they may have been talking about the Shofixti. seriously.

"brown"

"found on their SCOUTING missions."

Could have been mistaken for Shofixti. They may have remembered them being Ur-Quan because of the Shofixti's constant blabbering about killing the Ur-Quan.
Except that Shofixti would have had no way to get up there, and did not have spaceships until a few hundred rotations ago, if that.

The Ur-Quan visited three DRAHNS ago.  That's when we humans were beating each other with sticks, and when the Shofixti were likely non-existent as a race.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: 2Bad on June 29, 2006, 10:23:09 am
Also its pretty well documented that the ur-quan were collectively brown before the Dynarri split them into green and black factions. The melnorme tell the story in historical data.

I still vote for 42 kohr-ah squashed into a sub-marine type designed ship, rather than robotic crew, that kohr-ah wouldn't trust. Otherwise the kzer-ze would have them too...more reliable than stupid battle thralls.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on June 29, 2006, 11:31:10 pm
Despite the fact that they started with very similar (probably identical) technology during the first Doctrinal War, look at how the Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah ships have diverged over the millennia that they've traveled around the galaxy. Why would robotic crew be any different? The Kohr-Ah would have needed some way to grow their ranks while keeping away from each other, and sub-sentient robots seems like a prefectly logical solution to that problem. The Kzer-Za, on the other hand, would have needed no such technology, since they would have a practically limitless reserve of slaves to fill their ranks instead. Despite reliability issues, it is said (by Talana during the game) that the Ur-Quan waste nothing. So why doubly waste the resources they have? They would have to expend a great deal of time, effort, and materials developing and constructing robotic crew, and they would also be wasting their slave labor by letting them sit fallow instead of doing work. It runs totally counter to the Ur-Quan's nature.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Culture20 on June 30, 2006, 03:05:51 am
I'm surprised that no one else has brought up the point that the Kzer-Za must have a harder time being around their slaves (interlopers -and- food) than Khor-Ah would have around each other.  Thus, it doesn't seem unlikely that the Khor-Ah might be able to fight their instincts too.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on June 30, 2006, 05:04:45 pm
The Ur-Quan treat all other races with fear and disdain, true. However, slaves are just that: cowed to the will of the Ur-Quan, and obedient under pain of death. I imagine that this alleviates the Kzer-Za's fear (though I'm sure it only increases their disdain). However, another Ur-Quan, of either sub-species, is a thing to not only be feared, but also respected. It is a free being, not simply trash to be bent to their will or wiped from the galaxy, and as such is far more a threat to that individual Ur-Quan than any other race could ever be.

Or at least, that's how I imagine the Ur-Qan perspective to be, anyway. Draw your own conclusions, though, since that's what wild speculation is all about. ;)


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Arne on July 02, 2006, 04:47:20 pm
Well, everyone knows where I stand on the issue.


Re: Urq numbers, here's an old post of mine.

Quote from: Arne
Yehat:
When the Ur-Quan were entering our home star system at Gamma Serpentis we had a thousand starships prepared to defend our home, BRAK!!

A million tongues of fusion fire spread through the star system devastating the inner system planets, but incinerating ALL the Ur-Quan vessels! In that moment, the Hierarchy's war fleet was reduced by almost thirty percent.


---

Shofixti:
Or at least, they caused it to flare like a nova, destroying the many hundreds of Hierarchy vessels that had invaded our system to enslave us Shofixti.


Melnorme:
The resulting storm of solar flares cooked the life off the Shofixti homeworld and incinerated over a hundred Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts which had just entered the system to conquer the Shofixti.


Spathi:
the Shofixti caused their sun to explode in a colossal supernova destroying the entire planetary system, and not incidentally dozens of Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts! (Snork-snork-snork!)


(So 'almost 30%' is many 'hundreds' (over 300?), or 'over a hundred' (lower than 150) or 'dozens' (24-48 maybe?)) I think the 'Quans were pretty even before the nova bomb incident.
---


Supox:
[...] however we did eventually develop tactics in conjunction with the Utwig that were effective against them. We destroyed dozens of their battleships!

(This was enough to tilt the balance, but is it just the Supox alone or both the species?)

I don't think it actually says anywhere that the Syreen call only affects sentient/organic life. The Slylandro probe crew (cpu cores?) could be mounted inside the probe, it sort of looks like they're crystal lightbulbs in sockets. If they are indeed mounted, it wouldn't matter if they were highly organic and sentient, or just dumb 6502's. They could also be sentient, but strictly governed by some sort of behaviour 'DRM', like Asimov's 3 (4) laws.

The Dnyarris could possibly have been relatively small toads originally (although not in my interptetation). If they were the size of a bathing ball an Urq would be maybe 200-400 times larger (volume). The size of an old Urq scout ship is undefined. It could simply mean long distance space exploration ship, not small WW2 scout airplane.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Terrell on July 03, 2006, 06:42:12 am
Here's what I think.  The Ur-Quan Kohr-Ah use Dnyarri as their crew.  When the Ur-Quan defeated the Dnyarri in their slave revolt they decided that the Dnyarri would not be allowed to die, instead their minds would be castrated.  They would be lowered to sub-sentience and would have to serve the Ur-Quan for all eternity (both Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah mostly for interspecies translation, the most demeaning task that the Ur-Quan could think of. 

Since the Kohr-Ah would still need crew for balance with the Ur-Quan, but wouldn't really need the Dnyarri to actually do anything to control the ship (as the captain would actually do this) why not have a few around sould the current talking pet anger it's master for whatever reason.  Perhaps other Dynarri could wait on the Kohr-Ah hand and foot so to speak when he's not out committing genocide.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: pendell on July 06, 2006, 09:58:10 pm
Hello, Newbie here.

Won't stay long, but I wanted to propose an alternate theory ...

Item: Ur-quan are 1 per dreadnaught. Assume Territorial Kohr-Ah are the same.

Item: Nonetheless, there are 41 additional crew aboard a Kohr-ah ship. They are green,
indicating living creatures rather than mechanicals. They also respond to the Syreen call.

item:  There *is* at least one other creature alive onboard a Kohr-Ah Marauder ... a Talking Pet. You'll notice the Kohr-ah captain speaks to you through the sub-sentient pet. 

So evidently the Kohr-ah don't have a problem with sub-sentient creatures on their ships.

Therefore I propose the following hypothesis:

-- the other 41 crew members on a Kohr-ah marauder are NOT mechanical and are NOT Kohr-ah. They are sub-sentient creatures specially bred and trained to handle the tasks normally handled by sapient crew.     

After all, their genetic engineering skills are sufficient to degrade Dnyarri to sub-sentients. Perhaps they have also upgraded common animals to near-sentient status like Chimpanzees or what not.   They have sub-sentients serving as their translators -- why not also as low-level labor, or as "idiot savants" -- say, a creature that knows absolutely everything there is to know about interstellar navigation but is otherwise non-functional. 

This allows the Kohr-ah ships to be inhabited by "crew" which can be captured by the Syreen but still respects the Kohr-ah's territoriality. 

Who knows ... perhaps some of the semi-sentients were originally sentient creatures who accepted degradation as an alternative to the extermination of their species...

Respectfully,

Brian P.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lukipela on July 06, 2006, 10:28:19 pm
Since the Kohr-Ah would still need crew for balance with the Ur-Quan, but wouldn't really need the Dnyarri to actually do anything to control the ship (as the captain would actually do this) why not have a few around sould the current talking pet anger it's master for whatever reason.  Perhaps other Dynarri could wait on the Kohr-Ah hand and foot so to speak when he's not out committing genocide.

On what do you base the idea that there is nothing aboard the ship for them to do? I'd assume that crew have other responsibilites than just sitting around, otherwise they would not be needed. On a interstellar ship, I'd assume maintenance, preparation of food loading of supplies and other such duties would require a wee bit more physical strenght (and hands) than those toads have.

Of course, the Kohr-Ah may have built exoskeletons for them, but that seeems unlikely, why would they put their former enemy, however helpless into something that enhanced his strength?

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Hello, Newbie here.

Won't stay long, but I wanted to propose an alternate theory ...

Hello. Do stay. I'm not sure we technically  have newbies though. We just have posters and lurkers.

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Therefore I propose the following hypothesis:

-- the other 41 crew members on a Kohr-ah marauder are NOT mechanical and are NOT Kohr-ah. They are sub-sentient creatures specially bred and trained to handle the tasks normally handled by sapient crew.     

After all, their genetic engineering skills are sufficient to degrade Dnyarri to sub-sentients. Perhaps they have also upgraded common animals to near-sentient status like Chimpanzees or what not.   They have sub-sentients serving as their translators -- why not also as low-level labor, or as "idiot savants" -- say, a creature that knows absolutely everything there is to know about interstellar navigation but is otherwise non-functional.

This allows the Kohr-ah ships to be inhabited by "crew" which can be captured by the Syreen but still respects the Kohr-ah's territoriality.

I like this. If we assume that the Kohr-Ah did not in fact have their territorial instinct bred out of them whilst serving as soldiers and laborers, this would be a rather nice explanation. Even a low level of sentience (or subsentience or whatever you wish to call it) might be enough for the Syreen to work with.

And if they did have the instinct bred out of them, well this would still be more practical than cramming 42 giant caterpillars into one ship.



Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Censored on July 07, 2006, 12:13:57 am
I don't think the little critters are even in the crew count. Say that you damage a Marauder until it has one green dot; obviously you should still be able to converse with it. And I believe the Dnyarri were specially engineered for a specific task - translation - and nothing else.

While for the Kzer-Za there *could* be slaves (though I doubt it), the Kohr-Ah's doctrine maintains that all other life must be annihilated.  In that sense, and considering the Ur-Quans don't like each other as evident from the text, I think the crew dots should be interperted as the vessel's integrity. Just like the Slylandro Probe.

Lastly, wb Lukipela ;)


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Death 999 on July 07, 2006, 04:20:45 am
Do the Kohr-Ah have little Talking-pet popups in the corner when you converse, like the Ur-Quan?


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Censored on July 07, 2006, 11:20:47 am
Frankly, I don't remember.

By your reaction, I'm guessing they dont.

At any rate, I still think the crew count should be interperted as vessel integrity.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: pendell on July 07, 2006, 02:39:01 pm
Do the Kohr-Ah have little Talking-pet popups in the corner when you converse, like the Ur-Quan?

Yes, they do.  I just re-did the ZFP encounter so it's still fresh in my mind.

Quote

While for the Kzer-Za there *could* be slaves (though I doubt it), the Kohr-Ah's doctrine maintains that all other life must be annihilated.


*All* other life?  Or all other *sentient* life?   

Respectfully,

Brian P.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on July 10, 2006, 08:02:54 pm
Do the Kohr-Ah have little Talking-pet popups in the corner when you converse, like the Ur-Quan?

Yes they do. I will never forget the little toady that can't pronounce their favorite word quite right in the credits. ;)

Besdies, when responding to "the words," the Kohr-Ah describe the mental castration of the Dynarri in roughly the same fashion as the Kzer-Za, rather than making any sort of differentiation about what each sub-race did, as they do when discussing the doctrines. Mind, this is all "spoken" by the little toady in the corner, anyway.

I sort of like the "idiot-savant" explanation for the Kohr-Ah crew also... But, robots... :(


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: 2Bad on July 11, 2006, 05:51:26 am
Quote from the Ultronomicon:

"...The other Ur-Quan, meant to serve as manual laborers and soldiers, were optimized for strength and diligence in performing manual tasks, altered to function better as cooperative groups and to remain staunchly faithful to simple orders, with the Ur-Quan's natural tendency to genetically encoded racial memory greatly amplified."

Proof that the kohr-ah were altered to work together in groups...


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Censored on July 11, 2006, 09:23:33 am
now now, if the brown Ur-Quan knew about this option, to alter their genetic code so they won't be so aggressive and loners, would they accept the process?

while it may seem like a good idea, it may raise some ethical questions, which are relevant even to the 'real world'.

is the Dnyarri's splitting of the Ur-Quan ethical? all in all the Ur-Quan benefitted from it; look how strong they are, and supposedly very techonologically-advanced.
and quite successful if you count half a galaxy enslaved and half perished.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on July 11, 2006, 06:00:15 pm
now now, if the brown Ur-Quan knew about this option, to alter their genetic code so they won't be so aggressive and loners, would they accept the process?

I'm not even sure we can reasonably analyze this question; the Ur-Quan mindset really is totally alien, especially that of the browns, who we know the least about. Humans by nature are social beings, and even the most "antisocial" of us still seeks out some sort of companionship, even if it is just anonymous strangers halfway across the world on a message board about a 15-year-old computer game. ;)

The Ur-Quan, however, are very much antisocial by nature. Even though they were able to come together and form a coherent society, it was still only by a monumental force of will, and they valued their solitude even still. Do we even have any concept of how they would respond to being offered the equivalent of "genetic antidepressants"? It seems to go against everything about the Ur-Quan's innate state. Would they even consider it a viable possibility? It seems more likely that the technology, even if it were developed, would be banned out of safety concerns immediately; a "desensitized" Ur-Quan would be putting its life at stake any time it approached another member of its own species, since despite the fact that it could tolerate the proximity, the other Ur-Quan may not have undergone the process.

I think the most fascinating aspect of this discussion, however, is how much we're all thinking about the mindset of an entirely fictional race, which is based on the characteristics of humans who have suffered intense mental trauma and abuse. And yet... If it were actually a human being that had this sort of mindset, nobody would think twice about using this technology to cure them, because it runs so far counter to the way "normal" members of our society behave. There wouldn't be any ethical concerns, just a particularly disturbed individual that we have the capability of helping.

OK, enough rambling from me.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lance_Vader on July 11, 2006, 10:08:24 pm
now now, if the brown Ur-Quan knew about this option, to alter their genetic code so they won't be so aggressive and loners, would they accept the process?
Would the Yehat?  The Shofixti?  Not in a million years, and they're not nearly as solitary or aggressive as the Ur-Quan.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on July 11, 2006, 10:37:13 pm
Ah, but there's a key difference. Nowhere does it say that the Shofixti nor the Yehat are loners. In fact, both had early societies organized into warrior clans, which are social groups by their nature. So in that case, an antisocial Shofixti or Yehat probably would be considered abnormal. Also, it's worth noting that despite warrior cultures, no other species is anywhere near as naturally agressive as the Ur-Quan, as even they themselves say that they had to rein in their killer instincts when dealing with the other Milleu members (save the Taalo). Even the Thraddash and Ilwrath can't be considered that agressive, as the former wages war mainly for fun (or at least, so it seems), and the latter had a long and peaceful history before turning viciously agressive (by both their own admission and the Pkunk's analysis of their past lives).


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lukipela on July 12, 2006, 09:38:38 am
I don't think the little critters are even in the crew count. Say that you damage a Marauder until it has one green dot; obviously you should still be able to converse with it. And I believe the Dnyarri were specially engineered for a specific task - translation - and nothing else.

But as was pointed out, another subsentient species could be trained to work aboard the ship, not necessarily the TP.

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While for the Kzer-Za there *could* be slaves (though I doubt it), the Kohr-Ah's doctrine maintains that all other life must be annihilated.  In that sense, and considering the Ur-Quans don't like each other as evident from the text, I think the crew dots should be interperted as the vessel's integrity. Just like the Slylandro Probe.

It is established in the manuals that the Kzer-Za have slaves around to fly their small ships and work on the ship. The Kohr-Ah maintains that all life must be annihilated, so that it doesn't achieve sentience. They're not just killing cause they hate living things. They're killing because they are afraid that something will evolve that can control them. However, a sub-sentient creaure that cannot evolve, and is under their constant supervison aboard their ship would pose no direct threat to them. They could be cloning them all from one genetic code, minimizing genetic drift.

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Lastly, wb Lukipela ;)

Cheers.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lance_Vader on July 12, 2006, 07:07:31 pm
Ah, but there's a key difference. Nowhere does it say that the Shofixti nor the Yehat are loners. In fact, both had early societies organized into warrior clans, which are social groups by their nature. So in that case, an antisocial Shofixti or Yehat probably would be considered abnormal. Also, it's worth noting that despite warrior cultures, no other species is anywhere near as naturally agressive as the Ur-Quan, as even they themselves say that they had to rein in their killer instincts when dealing with the other Milleu members (save the Taalo). Even the Thraddash and Ilwrath can't be considered that agressive, as the former wages war mainly for fun (or at least, so it seems), and the latter had a long and peaceful history before turning viciously agressive (by both their own admission and the Pkunk's analysis of their past lives).
This was kind of my point, actually.  What kind of reaction do you think you'd get from a Yehat if you told him you could make his species less aggressive and more calm and mellow?  It would be a wonder if he didn't react violently.  And if you get that reaction from a Yehat, how much worse would an Ur-Quan be?


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on July 12, 2006, 07:42:18 pm
Realsitically, not much worse; it really makes no difference what species is trying to kill you, just that SOMEONE is trying to kill you.

Then again, who knows. Isn't what you describe exactly what the Pkunk would have offered the Yehat? And we all know how that turned out, right?


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: FyzixFighter on July 13, 2006, 06:12:29 am
Quote from the Ultronomicon:

"...The other Ur-Quan, meant to serve as manual laborers and soldiers, were optimized for strength and diligence in performing manual tasks, altered to function better as cooperative groups and to remain staunchly faithful to simple orders, with the Ur-Quan's natural tendency to genetically encoded racial memory greatly amplified."

Proof that the kohr-ah were altered to work together in groups...

Ah, but unfortunately the Ultronomicon is not perfect :'( , nor completely inline with canon (but it's getting there). That statement was added by an editor based on speculations and inferences similar to the ones in this discussion. However, the dialogue and manuals give no definite answer on whether they were or were not altered to work together in groups. Cheers.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: 2Bad on July 13, 2006, 06:54:18 am
I think that the Ultronomicon is as close to cannon as you can possibly get, without it being written by TFB, and in the absence of them clearing up the matter definitely I think we should consider the Ultronomicon as an authoritative source on the matter, as nowhere is there a mention of a "sub-sentient" slave race that serves the kohr-ah, except the talking pets who couldn't do any jobs, and since the crew are green and not grey, they should be considered sentient crew like all others (such that the syreen can steal them, though why you'd want kohr-ah on your ship, or mycons for that matter, or how they would survive in the atmosphere is beyond me, those crazy syreen), the only logical solution is that there are 42 kohr-ah on a marauder, with an officer captain in charge.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lukipela on July 13, 2006, 07:41:41 am
I think that the Ultronomicon is as close to cannon as you can possibly get, without it being written by TFB, and in the absence of them clearing up the matter definitely I think we should consider the Ultronomicon as an authoritative source on the matter,

As close to cannon as you can get still doesn't make it cannon, sorry.

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as nowhere is there a mention of a "sub-sentient" slave race that serves the kohr-ah, except the talking pets who couldn't do any jobs, and since the crew are green and not grey, they should be considered sentient crew like all others

We don't know how subsentience works. Perhaps they are all hghly intelligent, but without the ability to retainb memories. Perhaps they are powerfully brainwashed, rememebering only their duties. Perhaps they are mindless drones, but retain just enough of a spark to be touched by the Syreens song.

Quote
the only logical solution is that there are 42 kohr-ah on a marauder, with an officer captain in charge.

No, it is one of many possible solutions, and with no source material we have no way of confirming it.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on July 13, 2006, 10:01:08 pm
I think that the Ultronomicon is as close to cannon as you can possibly get, without it being written by TFB, and in the absence of them clearing up the matter definitely I think we should consider the Ultronomicon as an authoritative source on the matter,

As close to cannon as you can get still doesn't make it cannon, sorry.

ARGH ARGH ARGH! Pet peeve attack: Canon is the word you're looking for. We're not shooting anyone with this information.

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We don't know how subsentience works. Perhaps they are all hghly intelligent, but without the ability to retainb memories. Perhaps they are powerfully brainwashed, rememebering only their duties. Perhaps they are mindless drones, but retain just enough of a spark to be touched by the Syreens song.

Or perhaps, as mentioned before, the Syreen call will work on any type of lifeform with intelligence, so long as it has the ability to actually eject itself from the airlock. The Probe's crew is unaffected because they seem to be screwed into sockets like lightbulbs, and don't have any appendages to use in order to remove themselves.

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Quote
the only logical solution is that there are 42 kohr-ah on a marauder, with an officer captain in charge.

No, it is one of many possible solutions, and with no source material we have no way of confirming it.

Indeed. If that was the *only* logical solution, this debate wouldn't have started in the first place.

A shame nobody thought to ask about this during one of the IRC interviews with TFB. Then again, who knows if they even thought about it much at all?


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: 2Bad on July 14, 2006, 04:44:33 am
A shame nobody thought to ask about this during one of the IRC interviews with TFB. Then again, who knows if they even thought about it much at all?

heheh so true, 56 posts later and I doubt TFB even thought about it enough to have a definitive answer in their heads, but it does make you wonder why they chose to use "crew" as a measure of hitpoints for ships, maybe it was just purely to be original and different from other games that used "hull", and allows for neat special weapons like the syreen crew steal.

And you all must admit this is the only decent debate going on in this forum at the moment.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lance_Vader on July 14, 2006, 05:27:42 am
Then again, who knows. Isn't what you describe exactly what the Pkunk would have offered the Yehat? And we all know how that turned out, right?
And we know how they reacted when you even MENTIONED the Pkunk to them.  We also know that the Yehat shot down Pkunk ships on sight for years on this principle.  But, yes, it turned out all right in the end.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lukipela on July 14, 2006, 08:57:11 am
ARGH ARGH ARGH! Pet peeve attack: Canon is the word you're looking for. We're not shooting anyone with this information.

My apologies. When using unfamiliar words in a foreign language, I tend to just copy what the last poster has written, instead of spellcecking them. Still, I did feel a bit unsure about that and I should have checked.

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Or perhaps, as mentioned before, the Syreen call will work on any type of lifeform with intelligence, so long as it has the ability to actually eject itself from the airlock. The Probe's crew is unaffected because they seem to be screwed into sockets like lightbulbs, and don't have any appendages to use in order to remove themselves.

This is possible as well. Seeing as crew is otherwise used to denote actual physically separate entities, I'd stil lthink that the Sly probe contains actual robots that handle maintenance (and perhaps collection of biologicals and other interesting things).


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Draxas on July 14, 2006, 09:39:00 pm
My apologies. When using unfamiliar words in a foreign language, I tend to just copy what the last poster has written, instead of spellcecking them. Still, I did feel a bit unsure about that and I should have checked.

You are forgiven.

*Shoots Luki with the canon cannon*


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lukipela on July 17, 2006, 08:02:59 am
Or is that the cannon canon? Eh? Eh? [/joke]

EDIT: Added [/joke] for Censoreds benefit


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Censored on July 17, 2006, 12:08:39 pm
actually I think it's supposedly "canon cannon".

though the exact definition of "canon" is:

can·on
n.

   1. An ecclesiastical law or code of laws established by a church council.
   2. A secular law, rule, or code of law.
   3.
         1. An established principle: the canons of polite society.
         2. A basis for judgment; a standard or criterion.
   4. The books of the Bible officially accepted as Holy Scripture.
   5.
         1. A group of literary works that are generally accepted as representing a field: “the durable canon of American short fiction” (William Styron).
         2. The works of a writer that have been accepted as authentic: the entire Shakespeare canon.
   6. Canon The part of the Mass beginning after the Preface and Sanctus and ending just before the Lord's Prayer.
   7. The calendar of saints accepted by the Roman Catholic Church.
   8. Music. A composition or passage in which a melody is imitated by one or more voices at fixed intervals of pitch and time.



Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: pendell on July 19, 2006, 09:01:04 pm
'nother point: 

I just finished a game, during which I landed on Arcturus 1, the Burvixese homeworld.  As we all know, it had been devastated by the Kohr-ah. 

Nonetheless, the planet was teeming with biological life. 

It seems to me that the Kohr-ah are *not* at war with *all* life. If that were so, they should have sterilized the planet's surface.  With access to nuclear weaponry and strontium minerals, they could have so heavily contaminated the planet that nothing above the level of unicellular bacteria could survive there.  To say nothing of other choices like, say, reverse-terraforming that would transform a habitable water world into a barren moon. 

No, I believe the Kohr-ah crusade is against *sentient* life only.  I believe there are two reasons for this:

1) Usefulness.  If the Kohr-ah are hunting creatures, they may very well see animals and plants as assets rather than filth.  If nothing else, they may see biologics as nutrition  and pharmaceutical sources.   Destroying them would be to shoot themselves in the ... tentacle? 

2) Practicality. Even on Sol III life appears in volcanic vents and the bottom of the sea. Who knows how many different kinds of combinations appear out in the galaxy the Kohr-ah have seen?  Short of dumping the entire universe into quasispace, there is no way to ensure life will not appear somewhere.   

Here's an interesting idea for a sequel  ... 50 years after the events of Star Control 2, a band of Kohr-ah break away  to follow the Path of Alternate Reality.   Being seduced by the Orz,  they decide that the best way to ensure the safety of the Ur-quan species is to pick up IDF experiments where the Androsynth left off.  Having failed to cleanse the galaxy of all sentient life,  they intend to use IDF technology to seek out another dimension where no sentient life exists.  They will then migrate there with as many as will follow them, close the door behind them,  and live contentedly alone.  Since they cannot "cleanse" this galaxy, they will leave and go somewhere else that is already cleansed. 

The Orz, of course, have other plans ....   

... The adventure here could start with the Captain receiving word that entire worlds of Kohr-ah have simply ... vanished.  He must work with the Arilou to develop technology that will allow him to cross not only into quasispace but into other, stranger dimensions.  Each one with it's own unusual inhabitants, natural laws,  and dangerous enemies. 

To make matters worse the ship becomes lost in alien dimensions, due to sabotage.

Challenges:
1) Learn to navigate these dimensions and the space within them.
2) Search for clues to where the Kohr-ah have gone, and why.
3) Unravel the Orz' nefarous intent -- or are they, themselves, being manipulated by some other
intelligence.
4) Find some way to return to TrueSpace, and foil the Evil Nefarious plan which is, of course, nothing less than a full-scale interdimensional invasion. Think the Androsynth stars on a galactic scale. 

Respectfully,

Brian P.


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: 2Bad on July 20, 2006, 04:58:32 am
Quote
They will then migrate there with as many as will follow them, close the door behind them,  and live contentedly alone.  Since they cannot "cleanse" this galaxy, they will leave and go somewhere else that is already cleansed. 

hmm sounds more like the actions of the cowardly spathi to me...


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Lukipela on July 24, 2006, 01:08:17 pm
'nother point: 

I just finished a game, during which I landed on Arcturus 1, the Burvixese homeworld.  As we all know, it had been devastated by the Kohr-ah. 

Nonetheless, the planet was teeming with biological life. 

It seems to me that the Kohr-ah are *not* at war with *all* life. If that were so, they should have sterilized the planet's surface.  With access to nuclear weaponry and strontium minerals, they could have so heavily contaminated the planet that nothing above the level of unicellular bacteria could survive there.  To say nothing of other choices like, say, reverse-terraforming that would transform a habitable water world into a barren moon. 

This is probably just a miss from the developers side. Nonetheless, maybe the Kohr-Ah priotize? Wipe out civilizxations capable of spaceflight first, and then return when the area is secure to shatter the ecosystem. After all, it'd be tactically sound to wipe out threats first, and filth later.

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No, I believe the Kohr-ah crusade is against *sentient* life only.  I believe there are two reasons for this:

Mayhap. however, unless they leave forces behind to ensure that the "nonsentient" life doesn't eviolve sentience, their entire crusade becomes futile. Safer to just wipe everything out when they control the region.

Quote
1) Usefulness.  If the Kohr-ah are hunting creatures, they may very well see animals and plants as assets rather than filth.  If nothing else, they may see biologics as nutrition  and pharmaceutical sources.   Destroying them would be to shoot themselves in the ... tentacle? 

Unless they just load up their stocks and move on. Tying into the idea of subsentient crewmembers, maybe the Kohr-Ah captain eats these? New ones could be grown quite easily, assuming their technology is advanced enough.

Quote
2) Practicality. Even on Sol III life appears in volcanic vents and the bottom of the sea. Who knows how many different kinds of combinations appear out in the galaxy the Kohr-ah have seen?  Short of dumping the entire universe into quasispace, there is no way to ensure life will not appear somewhere.   

No, but wiping out life from any planet capable of supporting an ecosystem will probably ensure that whatever frozen microbes are left wont evolve too far. Blowing up planets/suns would help of course. Lifeforms that evolve in space might be harder of course, but the Kohr-Ah have had a long time to perfect their strategy.

Quote
Here's an interesting idea for a sequel  ... 50 years after the events of Star Control 2, a band of Kohr-ah break away  to follow the Path of Alternate Reality.   Being seduced by the Orz,  they decide that the best way to ensure the safety of the Ur-quan species is to pick up IDF experiments where the Androsynth left off.  Having failed to cleanse the galaxy of all sentient life,  they intend to use IDF technology to seek out another dimension where no sentient life exists.  They will then migrate there with as many as will follow them, close the door behind them,  and live contentedly alone.  Since they cannot "cleanse" this galaxy, they will leave and go somewhere else that is already cleansed. 

This still leaves the possibility that someone can follow them. True security is not achieved by fleeing, but rather by wiping out every potential threat. Interesting idea though


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: cloneof on July 24, 2006, 10:08:24 pm
Oh man, i just rememberd from first of second page that Kohr-ah can`t be reasoned or anything like that, but when doctrine war started at that one species home world (wich name i can`t remember), they ask that annoyign question so clearly and stuff, that Kohr-ah taked time to explain why they are going to kill them. Man that`s now funny  ;D. So many wonders in Star Control must say


Title: Re: Kohr - Ah Crew
Post by: Terrell on July 25, 2006, 05:29:21 am
Oh man, i just rememberd from first of second page that Kohr-ah can`t be reasoned or anything like that, but when doctrine war started at that one species home world (wich name i can`t remember), they ask that annoyign question so clearly and stuff, that Kohr-ah taked time to explain why they are going to kill them. Man that`s now funny  ;D. So many wonders in Star Control must say

That's the Mael-Num, aka the Melnorme.