The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

When working on the source, sometimes some interesting things show up. Here's one (I'll share more in time):

Even though the Shiva Furnaces are more advanced than your standard Dynamo Units it's not always a good idea to replace all your dynamos by them. Shiva Furnaces and Dynamo Units actually don't do quite the same thing.

Dynamo Units affect the delay between recharge of your energy, while Shiva Furnaces affect the amount of energy gained each recharge.
The energy regeneration counter starts at 10, and every DU adds -2, to a minimum of 4. (so more than 3 DU's is never useful).

The energy regenerated per recharge starts off at 1, and every SF adds +1. There's no maximum other than the amount of SF's you can carry on your ship.

Put into a formula:
energy per time unit =  (#furnaces + 1) / (10 - 2 * (min(#dynamos, 3))

To get the fastest recharge rate, follow this guideline:
- If you have less than 4 slots available, choose all furnaces.
- If you have 4 or more slots available, choose 3 dynamos and the rest furnaces.
(If you have exactly 4 slots available, the configuration doesn't matter for the recharge rate, but as the recharges come in smaller portions when using dynamos, you can often make use of it sooner then).

Very interesting.  I'll have to try that out.  :)

Hmm, yeah, that's a sweet bit of info.

I can't exactly remember (obviously need to play again) but i think my ship had 2 hellbore cannons, one crew pod, one fuel tank, one ATS system, and one point defense module.  Everything else was Shiva Furnaces.  That'd be, um, ten furnaces right?  Fuel was never a big problem but I suppose very occassionally I had to wait for a recharge.  Now I want to go home and try adding dynamos as well.

-Fwiffo

I look forward to future revelations of the inner workings of Star Control II.  Very neat stuff.  Mika, if you're reading this, perhaps you could publish this somewhere on the main website?

Math........................ ???

math is teh suck.

that's why i don't write code.   :'(

i do muz1k instead!  ;D

That's wrong language! I can't make anything out of that, because it's in the wrong, language!  :D

I believe he meant that it is *frumpy* to be *dancing* without the *sauce*  ;)

Ooh, now I got it! Thank you. ;D

Very interesting!  Please post more stuff like this.... This reminds me, I've always wanted to see the algorithm for what determines a Pkunk Fury to regenerate.  It probably shouldn't be shared with general players, as it might take some fun away (if there is a way to take advantage of it) but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to figure it out from the code! ;)   Unfortunately, I haven't done much C, only Java  ::)

How nice to see you again, Captain.

As you know, we Melnorme are interstellar purveyors of fine trade goods and valuable information gathered from a thousand secret sources in space and time. Actually, our primary trade good IS information. And since your credit balance with us is good, we can disclose that the 10.17.98 #StarControl chat log (http://www.classicgaming.com/starcontrol/history/files/scchatlog.txt) reads:

<Deep-Reep> what the algorythm for the pkunk coming back?
<Fwiffo> The pkunk's resurrection is really only 50/50
<Fwiffo> NNNGN, would I lie to you?

As always, it is a pleasure doing business with you.
Goodbye, Captain.

Hmm, indeed, and thanks for reminding me...  I really did read that a few times, years ago... I've never claimed to have a good memory  :-/

Thanks for this informative fact.  I didn't realize this and always loaded up on Shiva Furnaces.

Now death star (what I call my ship config since it blows away all life in the game in 4 seconds tops when within range) will devastate twice as fast as before.

8 spots for dynamos/Furnaces in my config once you get the hellbores, point defense, tracking modules, fuel tank, and crew pods out of the way.  16 available spots total for those who are keeping track.

What I am interested in is what the impact of multiple point defense/tracking units does.

The Melnorme said the more defense units, the stronger the laser.  Also, he said tracking gets better up to 3 units..

Anyone know the algorithm that controls this?

I thought I'd go ahead and run some numbers on the formula that was given to help explain things.

Some statements I can make out of seeing the numbers (if my calcs were all right)  This is assuming plugging in the appropriate numbers and following the formula out:

1) It is useless to have more than 3 dynamos.
2) The system acts in this way.  The dynamos increase the factor.  The furnaces doubles this factor for each furnace added.
3) For 8 spots, doing the math, the presence of the 3 dynamos really add up, almost doubling the power refresh rate.  This is really an impactful change.

The stats - dynamo factors (assuming no furnaces installed): 0 = .1 1 = .125 2 = .166 3 or greater .25

The stats - furnace effects: 1 furnace on it's own is .2, 1 furnace and 1 dynamo is .25, 2 furnaces is .3 (should be enough samples for you to get the general idea).

This is cool...and as the orz say "jumping peppers it's smiley time" (add the *'s)

Take the Melnorme at face value.  Each point-defense module is like the one in the Earth cruiser, and will take 1 crew when it strikes.  Adding point defense modules add crew to that total.  6 modules = 1 hellbore shot, more or less.  Your option is there to be more or less defensive oriented, especially against something like Orz or something similar.

As far as the tracking modules go, that's very hard to explain - it's better to show you.  Basically more than 3 of them are a waste, 3 is perfect aim no matter what as long as your target stays relatively still and you point the ship in the right direction.  2 is passable (i.e. you'll miss sometimes).  1 you'll miss about half your shots.  This is a good question, is there a specific chance of hitting/missing your shots when guided by having one or more of these modules?  Or is there an adjustment factor based on the # of pixels you're off from a straight shot?  As an interesting side note, I find putting the cannon or hellbore in the 2nd position on the front will cause the shot to curl around and hit the target in front of your nose too - so tracking modules have that interesting side benefit.

Well, I've noticed three tracking modules are pretty accurate, even if your ship isn't pointed properly at your target and the both of you are in motion.

Generally if I put tracking modules in a ship, I prefer to *not* put a hellbore cannon in the forward slot. I've noticed that in the PC version a shot fired from the front or rear uses just as much energy as a dual shot fired from the sides or the frontal arcs. Of course it's possible the dual shots do half as much damage each, or some other unknown drawback like that. But I figured if you have 3 auto-tracking modules, and you only have enough power to operate two hellbores (relatively) non-stop, why would you want to put one in front or rear? (well, I suppose the one in the front or rear would have longer 'range' given that the shots don't have to waste range in curling around to targets directly in front or behind you. But it's not THAT much of a gain that it's worth cutting your firepower in half, is it?)

The front and rear slots are great places for cargo bays or crew pods.

You don't really cut your firepower....each hellbore shot takes 6 crew - having a shot in the front and the side takes 18 crew per shot if all 3 shots hit.

And as far as power issues go, I find using 2 tracking modules is "perfectly acceptable" for aim.  Between that and the 2 hellbore modules (one front, one right behind it firing out and to the side), I get a continuous fire using the trick described in the beginning of this thread, so I never have an energy/firing problem.

For me who I am veteran melee commander only need 1 ATS and 2 Hellborne Cannons: Front, Spread slots, 3 Dyammos and the rest of slots are Shiva Furnances which gives you fast charge rate and each cycle I receive a large yield of energy almost enough for continous fire which in course annihlates almost ship in seconds from afar

Hm... if you wanted to sacrifice a bit of range for firepower, you could use the hated side slot instead of the front. This would only be effective with three tracking modules, and I'm not sure how much closer you'd have to get for the side blasts to hit since I've never done it myself.

My Quan-killer ship is thus (from first slot to last): 2 Hellbore Cannons, 2 Tracking Modules, 3 Dynamos, 3 Shiva Furnaces, 3 Crew Pods, 2 Hi-eff Fuel tanks. The last slot is for whatever I feel like. Add another fuel tank or a point defense, another Shiva furnace, whatever. I have 3 crew pods because I designate 50 crew to be used to replenish the ships in my fleet, should I feel like using them.

My question to everyone is what do you think is the best setup for your flagship after the Chmmr have added their "enhancements"?

1 advanced fuel pod, the rest crew.  The only task you really need the mothership for at that point is to steer between the gates of the sa-matra, and that's not exactly a combat intensive situation, seeing as how pkunks usually blow the generators.  And since just by being there, you should have infinte RUs for an escort, the 10 ur-quans guarding the great trophy are no big deal. You do have access to both the Chmmr avatars and Ur-quan slaughtering Utwig Juggers at that point.  Anything unfortunate enough to get in the way mid-voyage is going to be target practice for either the avatars, the juggers, or Fwiffo.

I have played all the way through this game three or four times, and I have NEVER built my Precursor ship into a fighting ship... in fact, I usually strip the ion bolt guns off it at the beginning and just leave it that way. I always just rely on my escort ships.

Technically speaking, that's what you 'should' be doing; the escort ships should be fighting for you, while the Precursor vessel is outfitted with a crapload of crew pods and fuel tanks and cargo bays for planetary exploration. Or so goes the recommendation in the documents included in the game.

But really, you never get to use the vessel in SuperMelee, and it's so formidable if you build it properly, that it's just so much more fun if you turn it "into a genuine Dreadnought-Killer" as Hayes put it.

I suppose you have a point there. Perhaps next time I'll try naming the ship the Death-O-Matic.

*bump*

Could someone link this little gem into the forum FAQ thread?  Tis a goodie.

Hmm... yes, these sc2 facts... I had planned to do more of those, and I've got enough material for some more.
I'll post a new one shortly.

Excellent. They were rather interesting.

Speaking of ship outfits, a crazy but fun one is my Lancer.
6 PDL's, 3 Shivas and Dynamos, 3 Crew Pods, three Hi-Eff Fuel tanks.

Cook anything you get close to. Ur-Quan and Druuge shots do NOT penetrate 6 dmg. lasers, so this is (albeit odd) a relatively smart way to fight. Also, the R.O.F. is pretty good, and the energy regeneration allows you constant fire, no waiting for recharges. PH33R MY L33T L4S3RS!

God. I'm sorry. Haxor was totally out of character for me. :-X

I tried that build... and I got killed pretty fast... i think Ill stick with the double hellbores - they can cook fighters if you aim them well enough and not do head on confrontation when it comes to Ur-Quan...

While we're at this, how are the workings of the Orz marines calculated?

I'll make this a future sc2 fact.

Mine is 1 crew, 1 hellbore, 1 ATS, 1 hiefffuel, rest (1) shiva. Takes down all kind of Ur-Quans (keep a little distance, the ATS will do the trick). That is my only genuine Dreadnaugth-Killer. During game I rely on my escort-ships and my Keel-Verezy cloaking device (see http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Gendiscuss;action=display;num=1059054995 for more information how to obtain this artifact - together with ale, stout and/or lager beer).

But doesn´t that formula ignore that shiva furnaces add 60 to the combat energy and dynamos only 30 (at least that is what the docking yard screen displays when I equip the ship).

So they would not only recharge more per time unit, but you also start with more energy from the start?
bye
Michael

Your battery size is the same whether or not you have any dynamos or furnaces.  They only serve to fill it up at increasing rates or amounts (respectively).

Funny, that's what I said (http://uqm.stack.nl/cgi-bin/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=522).  :)

Lobby your friendly neighbourhood coredev member to get this patch applied, and reduce confusion.  I've heard that some of them take bribes.  :P

Didnt understand

When you are outfitting your ship, there are statistics displayed at the bottom. These include combat energy. This number increases with the number of dynamos and shiva furnaces installed, but it does not increase in the right way. That is the bug.

Mods-

Stickey This Please

No need really. It's all in the Ultronomicon, though not all in the format I orginally wrote it in.
See here (http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/Star_Control_II_facts).
There are also pages there with information there which I would have made Star Control facts if the Ultronomicon didn't exist. this page (http://uqm.stack.nl/wiki/List_of_mineral_types) for instance.

Is there anyway we can change this source code?  ;D

Yes.

If you want more specific answers, ask more specific questions.

OK, never-mind then. I just thought this would be good info to keep around. I didn't know it was saved at the places you pointed out. Kindly disregard this then.