The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => Starbase Café => Topic started by: xenoclone on October 03, 2006, 02:41:48 am



Title: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on October 03, 2006, 02:41:48 am
Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum. Years ago, I was addicted to SC II's supermelee. Since then, I've always wanted to program my own similar game. Well, I'm finally doing it! I've been developing a melee clone for about 5-6 months now in my spare time using the Torque 2D game engine, which is possibly the most powerful 2D game engine available for developers.

Now, it's not the same ships or anything like that. Obviously I don't own the rights to it. And I plan on selling it for $10 or so. But it should be a high quality melee game that, if there's enough interest, I could setup to be mod-able so that SC fans could replace my ships with their own.

So I'm curious if there's interest in a game that can be modded? I'm at the point in my programming that I'm going to need to make a decision about whether or not I support it. It's not tirival to implement so I'd really appreciate it if people could say, you know, "yes I'd paid $10 for a game that I could turn into SCII melee on a modern game engine."

I can put up some screens soon if people are interested. :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: JonoPorter on October 03, 2006, 07:20:29 am
I wouldn’t pay $10, not unless I am extremely impressed by some sample of your work (that would be a yes to screenshots). I won’t presume to lecture you on how to make and sell games, but the likelihood of you selling any game, let alone a 2D space melee game, is very low unless you have the right connections, like a publisher. I hope you do well in the development of your game, but I probably won’t be buying it.

I also happen to be not only making a melee clone but the full game (links in signature). The reason I’m making my game is that it’s a great learning experience, as well as a great filler for a resume. I’m writing my game to be highly mod-able, not because my end users asked for it, but because that’s what’s required of a “high quality” game these days. So if you only want to do the bare minimum for your game then maybe you shouldn’t apply the label “high quality” to it. If you really plan to sell this game then mod-ability and network multiplayer is a must. I’m also writing my game from scratch not using any commercial engines. The main reason for this approach is that I am not constrained by any engine’s license. If I used Torque 2D as you are I could not have released my game open source.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Lukipela on October 03, 2006, 10:04:25 am
I agree with Bio. Theres an ample plethora of similar games out there, which can be played for free. For anyone to want to actually pay for your game, it has to be very special indeed, not just a moddable SC melee clone. Even if you make a moddable melee with networking, it has to be tangibly better than any free competitros on the market, which willdemand a lot of work form you. Regardless, best of luck with your åproject. Post some screenshots and maybe a demo. If it's good enough I'm sure you might attract some commerce.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on October 03, 2006, 06:03:26 pm
Good feedback. And thanks for the 'best of luck.' :)

I agree that there are lots of melee-style games for free out there. But, quite frankly, most free projects suffer from things like multi-OS compatibility, instability on certain computers, memory leaks, etc... things that are covered by a professional engine like T2D. Plus, with hardware acceleration support, built-in particle effects, cross platform compatibility, etc... anything made on T2D I'd waiger would be higher quality than a free download. (I should define 'high quality' as having these things. It's dangerous to associate quality with features, since if you can't play a game on your setup, what good are those features?)

So that's really my question. Is there a need for a better "base" for people to make their clones from. And if not, that's perfectly cool. That's why i'm asking. From this feedback, I'm leaning away from the mod support. Much like networking support, it might have to be listed as a 'for the sequel' concept. :D  (The developer of 'Void War' convinced me that network support isn't worth the hassle.)

Anyway,  thanks for the reponses! I'll have to post some screens when I've got them. It's definitely SC-inspired in terms of gameplay, I think people will dig it. :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Neonlare on October 03, 2006, 10:27:33 pm
You wouldn't happen to need any help with the ship graphics, would you? I need something to do :/.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on October 04, 2006, 07:26:48 pm
@Neonlare

I don't for this particular project, but I've had some ideas about what to do with it once it's done. The two off the top of my head that I can remember are:

1- release a stripped-down, free version with a Star Control theme just as a promotional device for my site

2- self-clone the game with different (original) ships, changeup the theme, and try to sell it to a different audience. (Right now, my game has an anime/manga style to it...that might not appeal to a lot of people.)

But if you have some ideas, I'd love to hear them. I'd like to leverage my work as much as possible.

I'll try to get some screenshots up. All I have right now are a couple splash screens uploaded, which are at:
http://www.xenoclone.com/images/splash_main.png (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/splash_main.png)
http://www.xenoclone.com/images/options_menu.png (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/options_menu.png)

I'm forcing myself to be patient for the in-game images until the last piece of the GUI gets done and when I add in some missing parts of the level art and weapon particle effects.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on October 10, 2006, 06:19:36 pm
Well, I finally got around to taking some screenshots. It's still pretty early in the dev process, but I figured people might be interested in what I've got going. There's a bit of temp art/fx in here. Though I guess that's irrelevent to my original question, which is whether or not people would want a modern engine-based SC melee.

This is a foggy nebula level that i'm working on.

http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_zoom1.jpg (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_zoom1.jpg)
http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_zoom2.jpg (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_zoom2.jpg)
http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_zoom3.jpg (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_zoom3.jpg)

I'm still months from the finish line, but if anyone has any thoughts, toss 'em my way!


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: DavidPartay on October 11, 2006, 04:13:10 am
It looks cool to me, I'd play that :D

TCP/IP Network support would be awesome but since my brother is living at Uni I wouldn't have anyone to play with anyway hahaha :D


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on October 11, 2006, 09:41:13 pm
Cool, thanks. It's still a long ways from being done. I have, however, revised it's HUD slightly, as per suggestions from the Torque community.

http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_sidebar_rev1.jpg (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_sidebar_rev1.jpg)
http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_sidebar_rev2.jpg (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_sidebar_rev2.jpg)

I would love to do networking, but at the moment it's probably not feasible. My goal is simply to create a game that's a blast for 4 players to play on a single computer.  ;D


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Rogue Kohr-Ah on October 12, 2006, 02:43:24 am
Frankly I would just put it up as a donate-basis, like most of the old shareware.  You'll find a lot of people won't bother, but many thast do, tend to give above and beyond what you may expect :)

As to networking, if you're not worried about cross-platform support, DirectPlay works very well in Windows and is easy to implement.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on October 13, 2006, 10:54:41 pm
@ Rogue

I don't think I'm at the point where I can think about how to release it, but I'm pretty sure that giving it away and hoping for donations has a lower conversation rate (downloaders who pay) than some sort of modern shareware model. But I haven't even begun thinking about this sort of thing yet, other than I won't be going freeware with this particular version of the game.

I appreciate the feedback from everyone. Hopefully one day I can get a demo up and the melee pro's of this forum can let me know how the gameplay feels. :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Rogue Kohr-Ah on October 14, 2006, 02:13:32 am
Perhaps, good faith to the community can bring it's own rewards, though.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Lukipela on October 14, 2006, 09:58:06 pm
Looks nice, although the anime player faces seem a bit out of place. Very colourful, gives off a nice energetic shone.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Halleck on October 22, 2006, 09:49:50 am
When I read "torque" and "publish", I immediately thought of GarageGames.com (http://www.garagegames.com/). Ever considered talking to them?


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on October 24, 2006, 01:50:03 am
@Halleck

I actually post my blogs in their developer's area. Their site is an awesome resource for game makers. I think if the game turns out good enough, I'd consider sending a copy of it their way. That's kind of a pipe dream at this point. We've still got a long way to go.   ;D


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: evktalo on November 15, 2006, 09:27:34 pm
Nice to see a supermelee-style project with TGB.

As for commerciality, I think selling a four-player, single machine multiplayer game is quite difficult. You need not only a PC, but enough controllers AND three friends to test it properly before you make a buying decision.

I, too, am involved in a TGB project which aims to be commercial. We have a *great* four player single machine multiplayer game. It's buckets of fun. It's also probably impossible to make a sensible commercial game out of it, so we're now doing proper single player content for it.

Best of luck to your project!

--Eino

edit: oh yeah, the screenshots look good!


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on November 16, 2006, 09:27:56 pm
I hear what you're saying evktalo. Part of me wants to try to do online play, and another part wants to do a real nice single player story mode. But when you're the lone programmer like me, you gotta think small.  If I had another programmer who I could just ask to go and make a kick-ass AI for me, or figure out what enabling real-time networking involves, etc., then I'd be in heaven.

I think there's a niche out there for this style of game. Gibbage and the number of people still playing SC melee I think speaks to that. But making money isn't the number 1 priority. I really just want to learn the ropes, so to speak, of making a game from start to finish, including selling it online, etc. I sold a game-extension I made once years ago, and I learned a lot from that. The lessons learned were far more valuable than the few hundred dollars I made.

I should probably note that I'm still toying with the idea of doing a straight-up remake of SC Melee with the same original ships, etc, with the new engine as a free download. I don't want to promise anything though,, because obviously focusing on my own original work should be the top priority. :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: evktalo on November 17, 2006, 05:03:45 pm
But when you're the lone programmer like me, you gotta think small.

Quote from: xenoclone
The lessons learned were far more valuable than the few hundred dollars I made.

Well said.. It's better to do something you have the resources for and get it done than aim for something "sensible" if it's not going to happen. Also I believe the later quote. Best of both worlds would be to find the one-man project you want to do which has the good market potential. Well, with this project you're shooting at least two birds with one stone, you want to do a Melee clone and you want to learn about selling a game - on top of that you may well right about the niche market!

--Eino


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on January 11, 2007, 09:25:10 pm
You can now keep track of this project's status at: www.xenoclone.com (http://www.xenoclone.com)

I'm still on track to get to beta sometime in March. It also has support for most ever feature seen in SC2 melee. So both my original game and a potential fan-made melee clone are alive and moving along nicely.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: evktalo on January 13, 2007, 12:39:13 am
Good to hear this!


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Zzzzrrr on January 13, 2007, 06:29:02 am
The screenshots look awesome!!! When will it be available? Would it be possible to release the Melee portion for demo purposes? I would be willing to help beta-test....

It will definately be a good idea to include multiplayer network play! Seems like UQM is taking off now that the developers added it...


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on January 23, 2007, 06:39:48 pm
@Zzzzrrr

The melee portion right now is the entire game.  ;D The plan is to add in an 'adventure' single-player campaign later. The melee, however, supports AI opponents, so a single player can play that as well.

Right now I'm still trying to crank out an solid Alpha that I can send to a few key individuals. I'm shooting for a Beta done in March. I'd like to get a few Beta testers who are familiar with SC, however, so it's possible I might do a closed beta for some people on this forum. :D

As for networking, I'd love to do it but I just don't know if I'll head down that path. My major focus for the next couple months is content and (with some luck) developing a killer AI.  Then we'll see from there. :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Zzzzrrr on January 26, 2007, 08:25:42 pm
But, quite frankly, most free projects suffer from things like multi-OS compatibility, instability on certain computers, memory leaks, etc... things that are covered by a professional engine like T2D. Plus, with hardware acceleration support, built-in particle effects, cross platform compatibility, etc... anything made on T2D I'd waiger would be higher quality than a free download.

Have you taken a look at the Allegro library? It's open source, supports multiple platforms, openGL, DirectX, and is very good quality.

I'm not sure how much money you are going to make on a $10 2D game..... You will probably have more success if you make it open source and allow other people to help you with development... i.e. network support, mods, etc...

Zzzzrrr


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on January 26, 2007, 09:37:52 pm
I can second that. Allegro is a pretty decent library. I used it on a cross-platform game
targeting Windows and Linux. The functions are fairly well thought out and the
help pages are easy to follow.
http://allegro.cc


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on January 27, 2007, 09:33:55 pm
I can't do open source because Torque isn't open-source and changing engines at this point would be a huge waste of time. I've dabbled with open-source in the past and have tended to find it more time consuming to work with, hence why I went with a commercial engine instead.

As far as making money goes, I'm not so concerned about that. If I can get it published by an indie publisher, great, if not then I am still interested in learning the whole process from development through selling. It really just depends on how it turns out. I've though about doing it a few ways, not all are charging $10 for the whole thing. If I have to self-publish, some portion of it might just be entirely free. I really don't know at this point.

I'll check out Allegro though. It never hurts to see how other people do things. Thanks! :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on February 20, 2007, 10:50:31 pm
Here's my first video recording of the alpha version in action. There's still lots to be done in terms of visual effects, AI, GUI, et al, but I thought people might be interested in this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKRt3z8v-04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKRt3z8v-04)  ;D


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: countchocula86 on February 20, 2007, 11:22:33 pm
Wow, that looks pretty awesome!


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on February 28, 2007, 10:46:08 pm
Thanks Count.

Things are moving slow but steady. :)

If I decide to do a public beta, what would people be most interested in testing out?  Levels/ships/AI/etc... etc.. is all a work in progress. What interests people the most?


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: JonoPorter on March 03, 2007, 07:53:33 am
I was unable to tell from the video but does your game follow newtons laws (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws)?


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on March 07, 2007, 08:04:05 pm
@Bio

Torque has built-in physics. So there's momentum, realistic collisions, etc working. I have the ships auto-brake when you let go of thrust though. In that sense, it fakes drag (since really there should be none in space).


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Zeep-Eeep on March 14, 2007, 09:28:41 pm
Drag? I thought it was an auto-stabilizing feature!


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Gaeamil on April 26, 2007, 09:02:37 am
I love the fact that there's not necessarily a planet.  My typical tactic is looping the map all the time, and that's hard to do when there's a planet in the way.  Can't wait to see it done!


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Censored on April 26, 2007, 01:54:20 pm
idea: have refuelling / healing / armoury stations in the melee space.

if you have more than 2 players playing then it is useful (won't be a one-camping other-annoyed scenario; or, you could add some penalty for using a station, say two seconds of inactivity, or make the stations have HP so they can explode in great force).

and it'd be pretty cool I think, would make the game more interesting.

extending this idea, you could add some kind of key outposts that (in cooperative play) teams should capture in order to get these or other benefits. capture-the-flag style is always popular.



Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on May 02, 2007, 08:44:22 am
Thanks for the comments, Gaeamil. I hope to have a decent variety of levels when done. :)

Censored: I do have powerups in the game, which has an element of that refueling/healing aspect you mentioned. It's possible I could do a level with stations. I'll have to think about it. The levels are still a bit up in the air but I definitely want to have a distinct strategy for each one.

I'm still slowly working on this one. Right now I'm revising the ship select GUI to make it a little faster/easier. Then I'm going to re-focus on the AI, tweak the gameplay, and hopefully get some late alpha / early beta testing going. :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Censored on May 02, 2007, 11:38:16 am
Good luck then!


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Valaggar on May 02, 2007, 02:41:50 pm
BTW, are the ship designs interesting enough? Not just the generic missile/laser/cannon, I mean. Lots of things can be implemented. Of course, I'd like to see something a-la-Fjorn Inquisitor (http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=3154.msg46162#msg46162), or the ViDi Virus (http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=3154.msg46153#msg46153).
And, in my opinion, it would be best to have only 16 facings (a-la-Star Control) or at least have not perfectly accurate weapons.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on May 04, 2007, 09:21:56 am
BTW, are the ship designs interesting enough? Not just the generic missile/laser/cannon, I mean. Lots of things can be implemented. Of course, I'd like to see something a-la-Fjorn Inquisitor (http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=3154.msg46162#msg46162), or the ViDi Virus (http://uqm.stack.nl/forum/index.php?topic=3154.msg46153#msg46153).
And, in my opinion, it would be best to have only 16 facings (a-la-Star Control) or at least have not perfectly accurate weapons.

Haha. Well that's a loaded question! I will say that right now, no, the ships are not distinct enough yet. There will be a lot of tweaks in that department for sure. My initial goal was to put in a similar set of abilities as SC2 ships for an initial base of weapons. And that's in there for the most part. along with some original stuff. But in terms of handling, weaponry, sound, etc... that all needs more work.

As I've been reworking ship-selection, however, I've been putting code in place that should allow for downloadable ships. Eventually, that kind of built-in functionality could lead to people making their own custom ships, much like people made their own units for Total Annihilation. At least that's the goal... there are definitely some hurdles there. But dang it'd be cool to see custom ships running in my game. :D


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Elerium on May 04, 2007, 11:41:31 am
Any sort of strategical stuff in the game as well? SC1 excelled in that it had some thinking element to it, perhaps just some basic resource and tactics management, a basic story, couple of aliens?


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on May 08, 2007, 11:35:08 pm
Any sort of strategical stuff in the game as well? SC1 excelled in that it had some thinking element to it, perhaps just some basic resource and tactics management, a basic story, couple of aliens?

Not sure what you mean here. Like a single-player adventure mode? The game probably won't be much more than a fancy melee with some backstory, unless that alone isn't appealing to casual games publishers. I certainly won't have anything in-depth like SC2, at least not in the first version.

The story will be something along the lines of a civilization shattered into 7 competing civilizations, with a couple of alien races thrown in there for fun. That's the idea in the back of my head, at least. I haven't fleshed it out completely.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Valaggar on May 09, 2007, 02:31:28 pm
He refers to a "campaign map", like in Star Control 1: maneuvering (turn-based, though it can be real-time too) with your ships on a 3D (or eventually 2D) map, mining/colonizing planets (for resources and crew), building ships, that sort of stuff.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on May 09, 2007, 08:03:16 pm
He refers to a "campaign map", like in Star Control 1: maneuvering (turn-based, though it can be real-time too) with your ships on a 3D (or eventually 2D) map, mining/colonizing planets (for resources and crew), building ships, that sort of stuff.

Ohh.. Sorry, misread what he wrote a little bit. I don't know about this yet. I'd like to but I'm really wary of feature creep. This started out as a small project that ballooned into something bigger/cooler. But if I keep letting it balloon, I may never get done! I've actually been narrowing the scope in some spots, with the goal of eventual downloadable content.

I'll post screenshots/video of the new melee setup screen when its done.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on June 28, 2007, 10:11:42 pm
New youtube video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQJncaba7jc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQJncaba7jc)

New blog on garage games here: http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/68928/13159 (http://www.garagegames.com/blogs/68928/13159)

Thoughts/comments as always appreciated. :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Amiga_Nut on June 30, 2007, 02:57:50 pm
Nice work!  :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on July 25, 2007, 08:43:26 pm
I thought some might find this pic interesting (click for big):

(http://www.xenoclone.com/images/thumb_preview_july25.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/preview_july25.jpg)

Two things it's meant to show:

1- Ships can be "previewed" before being selected. So basically  a player can watch how the ship moves, what it shoots, etc... before ever playing with it. Almost done, though as you can see occasionally ships fly away from view in their preview windows.

2- Multiple gamepads will be auto-detected and supported. As such, the appropriate icon will appear and the correct button mapping will be auto-loaded. This helps players know which controller is associated with what color, as well as make the controls consistent across several brands of gamepad.

Melee setup is almost done. It's very possible that I'll do an open-beta with perhaps a single level and a locked number of usable ships if all goes well. Because I'd like to get some feedback on the gameplay soon. :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: AngusThermopyle on July 25, 2007, 09:39:47 pm
This looks really promising! I sure would be interested in trying a beta version.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: evktalo on July 29, 2007, 08:31:55 am
Good progress! Great to see. You wouldn't happen to need music for your game? Or was that tune in the video some in-game music?

--Eino


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on July 30, 2007, 08:43:26 pm
Thanks for the comments. In fact, thanks in general to everyone whose been looking at this thread. It's neat to think there's as much interest as there has been on this forum.

@Eino:

The music is just royalty free music I plucked off the web. I thought it fit the theme, but nothing has been officially composed yet. I've got a friend who is in line to write the music. But I'd be interested in hearing what music you think might fit with the game!


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Bluhman on August 01, 2007, 04:21:16 am
You're doing great, it looks like! Quick question though; do you have any solid ship design concepts down? If you do, I'd really like to know what they are.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on August 02, 2007, 10:00:27 am
You're doing great, it looks like! Quick question though; do you have any solid ship design concepts down? If you do, I'd really like to know what they are.

Since there are 9 species, each with 3 ship classes, and each ship with 3 configurations, I haven't come close to finishing that. I've done the most work on the smallest ship class. The names in * * are a temp ones that my fiancee has coined to describe them.

Ship 1: *Little Gray*; Weapon: Tesla Coil(s); Special: Self-duplication (wimpy clones)
Ship 2: *Cannon Ball*; Weapon: long range cannon; Special: Rear-fire hot gas
Ship 3: *Light Bulb*; Weapon: long range homing missiles; Special: teleport
Ship 4: *Popcorn*; Weapon: build-up discharge; Special: reconstructible side hulls
Ship 5: *Wedge*; Weapon: rapid projectile; Special: converts weapon impact to power
Ship 6: *Dragonfly*; Weapon: fire balls; Special: flaming/latching spores
Ship 7: *Razor*; Weapon: rapid projectile; Special: super speed boost
Ship 8: *Bat*; Weapon: distance-controlled blades; Special: cloak
Ship 9: *Steering Wheel*; Weapon: weapon-freezing, steady beam laser; Special: engine-freezing particles

So I think in that set you can get an idea of at least the weapons. Of course speed, turning, etc.. are all being tuned to maximize how in control a player feels when using each ship. For example, Ship 3 is slow, but can teleport away and fire long range.... so if you're smart, you don't let it get up close to something like Ship 7. I think if you skim it, there's a good deal of Star Control style weapons in there, along with a number of originals. I kind of liken it to how Mortal Combat is similar to Street Fighter. Some stuff is similar, but not a direct copy by any means.

As a side note, the code is setup such that weapons/specials can be mixed and matched with any ship. For example, just today I took ship 16's special and gave it to ship 3. And ship 3's specia went to ship 1. :)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: evktalo on August 09, 2007, 09:51:43 am
Since there are 9 species, each with 3 ship classes, and each ship with 3 configurations, I haven't come close to finishing that.

Oomph, I understand when you said "feature creep".. I think you did? :)

I'll write some demos soon-ish - it might take a while as I've a lot of work and stuff lined up. But if you already have a musician at hand I don't mean to steal his/her job. :)


--Eino


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on August 17, 2007, 05:53:22 am
Eino:

Haha, ya, feature creep has hit me on the ships, that's for sure. But, hey, you've given me a great segue into my next topic:

There IS a beta, it WILL be public, it WILL be free, and it WILL be soon. I've got it online right now. The link is being passed around to a few trusted initial testers. If all goes well, the beta goes public very shortly. The plan is tol include the 9 small ships, fully upgradeable, and one level.

I'd love hearing from you StarCon pros on how it plays. I'll say Beta is public sometime this month, maybe even this weekend if I don't get any major bug reports.  ;D



Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: guesst on August 18, 2007, 04:26:42 pm
(Waiting with anticipation.)


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on September 05, 2007, 10:41:50 pm
Just as a quick update, I'm basically waiting for one final "pre-beta" review to come in. Then I'll hammer out the major kinks that were reported to me and upload the fixed version. Most all commented that the camera/zoom wasn't working for them. And then there are some slight balancing tweaks to be made. Otherwise we're almost ready to rumble.

There was also a slight delay due to my wedding/honeymoon. An additional delay may come from me studying for an interview for a better job. So things are going a little slower than I'd hoped but you can expect a download of some sort soon. :)

BTW, if someone thinks they want to look at the pre-beta and give me feedback quickly, private message me and I'll give you the link.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: Anthony on September 06, 2007, 01:14:55 am
There was also a slight delay due to my wedding/honeymoon. An additional delay may come from me studying for an interview for a better job. So things are going a little slower than I'd hoped but you can expect a download of some sort soon. :)

Congratulations on your marriage and I wish you luck on your job interview.  Don't study too hard; have some fun in between, give it your best, and anything will be possible.


Title: Re: I'm Creating a SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on September 20, 2007, 02:22:57 am
Here's a sneak peak at the announcement that will be going up on Garage Games tonight or tomorrow. The picture being referenced is here (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/poster_beta.jpg).

Announcing the Xeno Versus: Space Melee Public Beta!

About the Snapshot
This is a picture of the bold pilot Ryoko, owner of the Razor -- a bullet-like vessel more rocket than ship. She's one of 9 brave captains set to do battle in this modern take on the Spacewar! genre. Her artist is the exceptionally talented Mauizu (http://www.mauizu.com).

About the Development
Xeno Versus has been developed using a modified TGB v1.1.3. Easily 90%+ of its game code, however, is in script. It has been in development since the final weeks of the T2D Early Adopter program. It is a testament to the resources available on TDN and the forums.

About the Beta
Join the beta group here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xenoversusbeta) or subscribe to the mailing list at xenoversusbeta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (http://mailto:xenoversusbeta-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) to get access to the beta. It is fully playable with a limited content set: 9 complete ships and 1 complete level. This is the first in a small set of staged betas. It is set to expire on October 7th.

So join up and discuss! Team xenoclone.com (http://xenoclone.com)'s goal is to make this the best "space melee" the world has ever seen-- a lofty goal that will take time and dedication to achieve. We need input at all levels: interface, controls, game-play, et al. All feedback, good or bad, is entirely welcome.

Please don't post the link here. I'm trying to keep track of users through Yahoo.

EDIT: Just use the link in the post below.

Thanks!




Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: xenoclone on September 26, 2007, 12:05:02 am
Apologies for the double post. But beta-testers have been fewer than anticipated... maybe half as many as I'd hoped for.

Are there people here who want to try the beta, but don't want to join the Yahoo group?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: RTyp06 on September 26, 2007, 12:35:34 am
Dude, I want to try your beta so bad.. I just don't want to have to jump through a bunch of hoops to try it. Sign up here, wait for e-mail there... Nah, I'll wait for an open beta.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: xenoclone on September 26, 2007, 10:23:00 pm
Okie doke. Well I'll assume by the number of hits that there are a few people wanting to download without the hassle of the Yahoo group. So here's the deal:

I really, really, really need tips on getting the camera to work. The major problem is this: the yellow ship likes to fly into the corner and "wrap" around back and forth. It makes the camera go crazy. Any suggestions are fully welcome. Heck, maybe someone knows the algorithm that UQM uses?

Xeno Versus Beta Zip (http://www.xenoclone.com/downloads/XenoVersusBeta.zip) (WinXP)

I'd also love feedback on the game play, any bugs you hit, etc...

Oh, and since most of you are probably going to use keys, here's the keyboard map (http://www.xenoclone.com/downloads/xvs_keys.txt) that's not shown in the game's controls section.

I want to submit this to the Independent Games Festival (http://www.igf.com/) on the Sunday night deadline. This is a great chance to put 2D melee games back into the spotlight. So the sooner the feedback, the better!

You ask what's in it for you? Well besides the fact that you get a decent StarCon melee clone to fiddle with for a few days, you get to influence how the game is made. I've got a great track record with working with play-testers and integrating their feedback. :)

Plus, if I feel like the SC community is a big supporter, then I'll be more inclined to make the game mod-able (ie convertible to SC ships / art).


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: RTyp06 on September 27, 2007, 01:30:01 am
Thank you. I'll try it tomorrow though.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: Resh Aleph on September 27, 2007, 10:26:04 am
Xeno Versus Beta Zip (http://www.xenoclone.com/downloads/XenoVersusBeta.zip) (WinXP)

XP only? :-\


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: xenoclone on September 27, 2007, 08:38:17 pm
Xeno Versus Beta Zip (http://www.xenoclone.com/downloads/XenoVersusBeta.zip) (WinXP)

XP only? :-\

Mac and Linux are future possibilities. But for the time being, XP only.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: Resh Aleph on September 27, 2007, 08:55:52 pm
Mac and Linux! I was merely wondering about other versions of Windows. :P


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: xenoclone on September 27, 2007, 09:36:20 pm
Mac and Linux! I was merely wondering about other versions of Windows. :P

I haven't tried. I've heard reports that the engine won't work in Vista, and it's far too new to have been tested on Win 98 SE. Try it out and let me know if it works for you. :)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: RTyp06 on September 27, 2007, 11:54:29 pm
Ok, I played it through several games now. First impressions.

You have done a great job and have put alot of time and effort into this game. Graphics and sounds are top notch.

However, Gameplay seems a bit slow to me. The seeking missiles seem a bit overpowered and actually lagged the game with a noticible drop in frame rate.

The ship selection could be a bit more intuitive. There's no reason it couldn't be done with mouse only instead of pressing A and B key etc.

It's also hard to keep track of where you are sometimes due to the way you programmed the view when a ship wraps around to the other side of the playing field. The size of the area you are viewing jumps so dramatically you lose focus.

The ship sprites also seem a bit small. You have some great artwork, why not show it off?

Only dings i could come up with, other than that, great effort. This one will stay on my HD for a while, and thanx again.



Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: Resh Aleph on September 28, 2007, 04:46:39 pm
It does work in Vista. It's fun! :D


Things to improve? I haven't played much really, but here are some immediate points:

Ship selection: I didn't like how the ships run out of the preview "window". It would be nicer if it locked on to them.

I desperately needed a manual, because I had no idea what was going on. What do the various circle graphics mean? Are same-class ships supposed to be balanced? What does each ship do? (It would be cool if ship descriptions were to be added to the ship selection interface.)

Gameplay: The physics are way more realistic than in Star Control, but it's less fun to control ships that way IMO. You need to keep turning around to fire in close range, and naturally it's difficult to do so with realistic space physics. (Hmm, could be interesting if there were front thrusters.) ... or maybe I just need to get used to the game. :P

I'd rather have gauges for hit points/energy, since they require less time to read than numbers. :P (Hey, it's melee! Every 0.1 second counts!)

Oh, and is it just me or does no key respond when a game is over? o_O


But yes, quite fun. Great job! 8)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: xenoclone on September 28, 2007, 06:13:13 pm
Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it.

Ironically, I did have a manual online but forgot to share the link. Short Guide: http://www.xenoclone.com/downloads/xvsbeta_guide.pdf (http://www.xenoclone.com/downloads/xvsbeta_guide.pdf)

I've also got a camera patch I'm working on. If you've got the time interest, would you try it out? It also tweaks a few other things, like game speed.

http://www.xenoclone.com/downloads/xvs_camerapatch.zip (http://www.xenoclone.com/downloads/xvs_camerapatch.zip)

Unzip into your XenoVersusBeta/SpaceMelee/gameScripts sub-directory.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: RTyp06 on September 29, 2007, 06:06:26 pm
I'll try the camera patch.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: Resh Aleph on September 30, 2007, 12:57:16 pm
Hey, I had six more days! :'(

(http://img11.imagepile.net/img11b/74820xeno.png)

Anyway, after playing a little more:

  • The camera issue is indeed the weakest link. I haven't tried the patch though.
  • It's harder to see the graphics with more than two ships, because the map is often zoomed all the way out. I'm not sure what could be done there though.
  • Is it just me, or do weapons not wrap around the screne edge?
  • If you can launch your ships whenever you want, one could simply wait for all other players to kill each other. :P
  • I miss SC's diversity in ships. SC uses extreme properties to make ships more unique. Some are huge, some are tiny, some can stop from full speed and turn around almost instantly, some can cross the entire screen in just a few seconds, etc.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: xenoclone on September 30, 2007, 08:44:33 pm
Hey alephresh,

It may just be a bug in the date checker. Try again on October 1. If that doesn't work, no worries. Another beta is just around the corner. ;)

There is a timer on how long you can take to choose your ship. 10 seconds and then whatever you have gets popped into the game.

Yes, the camera is bad. I just tried UQM's camera. It gets away with some tricks using that plain background, for sure. But I'm working on another improvement.

Don't worry about diversity in ships. There are actually 18 more ships in progress not in the beta. You've gotten to play with the small. There are medium and big ships upcoming as well. Plus, mini-ships that can be launched by some of the big ships. :)

You are absolutely right about that the weapons don't wrap and the 4-player zoom issue. The former I can fix... the latter I'll have to think about some more

Thanks for the testing and thoughts. I really appreciate it!



Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: evktalo on October 01, 2007, 03:28:00 pm
I had the date bug too, but now it works fine.

I really, really like the graphics, the different characters in the menus, and the nice touches there are in the ship selection screens - ship previews for instance look really cool with the "slice" picture of the character. Also, it sounds like audio department is pretty well in check. Sound effects seem good and the music is pretty fitting, although not really memorable as some game tunes are.

I expected a little more "newtonian" or "harder feeling" gameplay, instead it's feel sort of soft, like steering inside a pudding. I don't feel like I can directly "import" my supermelee playing skills into this game, since the gameplay feel is so different. Taking a match with 3 AIs was rather chaotic, but I played a match against a single computer opponent and I'm beginning to see how to make a difference in the battle. I can't say the gameplay clicked instantly with me, but I'll need a few more games to say more about that.

I might have sounded a tad critical, but I do think it's great work so far! I was especially wow!ed with the graphics.

--Eino


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: Resh Aleph on October 01, 2007, 07:15:04 pm
There is a timer on how long you can take to choose your ship. 10 seconds and then whatever you have gets popped into the game.
Another option is to avoid combat until only one other player is left. :D

The game works now. I finally managed to survive a game with three AIs, but an AI bug stopped me from fragging the last one: it kept running to the edge of the screen. I couldn't do anything since the game view was constantly wrapping around. I had the red ship and the AI had the yellow one.

By the way, I'm still confused about the meaning of some things, like  that weird green stuff and small graphical details like ship trails.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: xenoclone on October 02, 2007, 06:34:46 pm
Eino: I want you to be critical. Otherwise, how could I improve things. I like your feedback. Compared to SuperMelee, my game does feel a tad sluggish, I agree. The music is actually just temporary, as are certain sound effects. I've had a few people express interest in writing the music, but I haven't heard any samples yet. :)

alephresh: The ship trails are just there to show you your momentum. Nothing more. The weird green stuff... you mean when you go thru the exhaust of the big + shaped thing? It just temporarily freezes your weapons. (The same as if you get hit by the Chakra's laser beams.)

 I have some good news. I finally figured out how Star Control does its camera! It took a paradigm shift in thinking, for sure. Right now I'm busily implementing two game modes; "classic" 1 on 1, which will have a camera like Star Control, and "free for all", which will support 4 players and use the camera style that comes with that "patch" I offered up for download. I like the idea of two game modes... one for the fans of SC, one for people looking for something new. So, I think those will both be part of the next beta, along with at least one more level and 9 more ships. :D


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: Valaggar on October 02, 2007, 07:47:19 pm
alephresh: The ship trails are just there to show you your momentum.
Since you want us to be critical... I'm going to tell you that the trails show your velocity, not your momentum (i.e. mass times velocity).  ;)

"free for all", which will support 4 players and use the camera style that comes with that "patch" I offered up for download.
Are you sure you want to also keep the weapons-don't-wrap-around thingy, though? Fights near the edge are weird with it.

Also, to take advantage of this change, you might want to shift the "camera-arena" (by this term I mean the area to which the camera focus is restricted, or otherwise said, the area around which the camera is not allowed to wrap around.) when ships get near each other in fact, but far from each other on-screen - that is, when, say, two ships are on the right edge, and the other two are on the left edge.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: JonoPorter on October 02, 2007, 08:04:34 pm
The graphics are good. I would recommend some anti aliasing being done one some of the character images. I got very annoyed while trying to play this though. The ships are harder to control then in SC2. I also got very annoyed trying to kill the chakra, it regenerated faster then I could do damage to it.  I was also very annoyed that bullets would not wrap around. Also the tracking logic for the missiles seams not to lead the target making them very easy to avoid with fast ships.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: Resh Aleph on October 02, 2007, 08:28:52 pm
The ship trails are just there to show you your momentum.
And the occasional circle trails?

Another thing: I don't like the way the ship spins after entering the game zone or after taking a bonus. I want to have full control of it. Talking of bonuses, why would I want a level-down? o_O

The showstopping AI bug I mentioned happened to me again already.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: xenoclone on October 02, 2007, 09:15:43 pm
alephresh:
  • If you plug in that camera patch, the camera at least won't go crazy when that stupid ship goes to the corner.
  • The big circle trail just helps you see your ship when you wrap. Won't be necessary with new camera
  • Ship spinning: ugh, I know! I don't know what causes it. But I think I can force fix it.
  • Level down bonus: It also fully heals you and regenerates power. So is sort of a "lesser of two evils" choice bonus... maybe I should make it look more ominous?

BioSlayer:

Thanks for checking it out. I'll see if I can't further tune the speed/controls. Is there something specific about the controls that sucks? Turning, changing speeds, etc? You're one of many saying the controls feel sluggish. I'm looking into improvements on the AI that should help aiming... BUT, I don't know if it will go into the missiles. Most people think they're too powerful and this is one way that they lose their effectiveness.

Valaggar:

Thank you as well for checking it out. You are correct... velocity. You make an interesting point with the camera. Not really possible with that algorithm I've been using, but is possible with the new SC-style camera.

This is great feedback from everyone! :)

UPDATE: Well, obviously Beta-I ended on October 6. I do have a Beta-II in progress at the moment. It will have a brand new camera algorithm, a larger chunk of the content done, and a number of bug fixes. A big thanks to everyone who tried it out and gave me some feedback! Most all suggestions are being taken into account as I continue the revision.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta on Page 4)
Post by: guesst on October 13, 2007, 03:58:26 am
I have some good news. I finally figured out how Star Control does its camera! It took a paradigm shift in thinking, for sure. Right now I'm busily implementing two game modes; "classic" 1 on 1, which will have a camera like Star Control, and "free for all", which will support 4 players and use the camera style that comes with that "patch" I offered up for download. I like the idea of two game modes... one for the fans of SC, one for people looking for something new. So, I think those will both be part of the next beta, along with at least one more level and 9 more ships. :D
Out of curosity, how exactly did you figure it out and what was the "paradigm shift" you needed to make?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on October 15, 2007, 06:56:59 am
The paradigm shift... sure, I'll explain. Basically, I'd imagined the level that the ships float around in as a box... when a ship hits the edge of the box, it wraps around ala asteroids.

Star Control doesn't do this. It's more like a Hanna Barbara cartoon. The background cycles over and over. So once this struck me, I was able to write a camera algorithm that matches it. There are some issues still left to fix. But it's looking good. :)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on October 31, 2007, 10:51:06 pm
Why do ships have to wrap around in your game? Why not just bounce off the edges when in 4 player mode because that seems a big issue with your camera. Also I noticed that the scaling from larger image to smaller, or vice versa, the scaling seems to jump at times..?

I'll admit I had lost interest in this early beta  due mainly to the slow game speed. The player control loss when being hit by enemy ordinace and lopsided weapon balance was the nail in the coffin for me. The game becomes tediuos to me. I look forward to trying your beta II if you decide to make it public.



Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on November 01, 2007, 08:54:04 pm
RTyp06:

I've heard that argument before. I guess wrapping makes the gameplay area effectively boundless, whereas if you bounce off the level edges, you can be cornered... which is unfair to certain ships. Right now I've got a pretty solid SC-clone camera going. It only works for two players.

The debate right now is whether or not to allow 4-players in the game at the same time. I'm considering, for example, making it more like a winner-stays-in scenario. As long as player B keeps winning, the game cycles through player A, C, D... until someone takes out B. This basically makes the game more like SC 2-player game, while still supporting 4 players. I'm not sure if it's a perfect solution, but I know that when a lot of guys are together playing a fighting game, for example, we tend to pass the controllers around to the losers until someone takes out the winner.

I'm playing with an increased game speed right now. Early results are good... maybe even too fast. It needs more testing. Balancing is going to be a major issue. If you know which ships feel unbalanced, I'd love to hear it! I'll definitely be doing at least one more round of public beta testing when it's ready.

On a separate note, I'm going to try and occasionally blog on xenoclone.com (http://www.xenoclone.com) just so I don't SPAM this thread with the littles details. I hope to just use this thread to talk with what people here are interested in. :)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Resh Aleph on November 01, 2007, 10:57:30 pm
Have you considered a separate camera for each player? The camera could center the player's ship, and show only, say, 1/4th of the game area (or let the player control zooming). When other ships are out of sight, arrows would indicate their locations.

It's really a shame that an SC2-style camera can't be used here nicely. It shatters an old fantasy. :(


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on November 01, 2007, 11:55:30 pm
Quote
On a separate note, I'm going to try and occasionally blog on xenoclone.com just so I don't SPAM this thread with the littles details. I hope to just use this thread to talk with what people here are interested in. 

Not sure why you are concerned about that.. The forum is for off topic and the moderators are not nazis,(at least as far as I know) .. ;) I too write games but I use gamemaker http://www.yoyogames.com/make and can tell by the xeno beta you have put alot of time and effort into this project. I really think you're gonna come off with a polished gem in the end.

I'll fire up the beta a few more times and see if  i can't be more specific about inbalances. one off the top of my head is the rockets. the range and accuracy seemed just below "uber" imo.

 


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on November 02, 2007, 06:40:19 pm
Have you considered a separate camera for each player? The camera could center the player's ship, and show only, say, 1/4th of the game area (or let the player control zooming). When other ships are out of sight, arrows would indicate their locations.

It's really a shame that an SC2-style camera can't be used here nicely. It shatters an old fantasy. :(

I've had that suggested to me by a few people as well. It might be the right way to go, I dunno. It certainly does seem to be the modern trend just to split the screen 1 / 2 / 4 ways depending on the number of players. Wouldn't be too hard to try out either. This also, in theory, would allow for games expandable beyond 4 players over a network. Hmm....

Quote
I'll fire up the beta a few more times and see if  i can't be more specific about inbalances. one off the top of my head is the rockets. the range and accuracy seemed just below "uber" imo.

Cool. You'll probably have to change your computer date to before Oct. 6. I put in an expiration check, albeit not too sophisticated of one. Maybe I can drum up a patch of some sort if people still want to play with that version....

I agree that the homing missiles are too strong... everyone complained about that. Probably the self-healing of the Chakra is too tedious as well. I'm fully open to suggestions for weapons and special abilities. I do have 18 more ships to finish off, after all. :)



Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on November 07, 2007, 07:07:07 pm
Here's a peek at the progress of split screen. The idea is that each human player on the same machine gets one section of the screen. Next I need to update it such that each 2-way pane takes up the full half of the screen, and a three-way split means one player gets half the screen.

It seems to work pretty well.

(http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_1_thumb.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_1_screen.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_2_thumb.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_2_screen.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_4_thumb.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_4_screen.jpg)

The key feature that makes it work, I think, is that each player can control his own zoom level. I think the next
iteration will have a mini-map (radar) and health bars. I will probably also ditch the energy/health rings around the ships. I don't think those are working!

I've also implemented ship selection via mouse. So you'll be able to select your fleet and your opponents' with the mouse. :)


Update: Okay, now I've got a fixed split screen. :)

(http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_2_new_thumb.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_2_new_screen.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_3_new_thumb.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_3_new_screen.jpg)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: guesst on November 08, 2007, 06:53:16 pm
Personally I LOVE the dynamics of the SC2 type camera so much more than a fixed camera, espcecally when it factors into powers like finding a cloked illwrath (or navigating one). While that may not specifically factor in this case, I still love the look. So what I would suggest is that you keep the split screen and factor in the SC2 type camera (optional?) so that it's you and the closest enemy ship in your window. Yes it'll keep switching and woulnd't work as well for long distance abilities, but if it's optional who can complain.

But I'm know to have unpopular opinions.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Resh Aleph on November 08, 2007, 10:58:01 pm
So what I would suggest is that you keep the split screen and factor in the SC2 type camera (optional?) so that it's you and the closest enemy ship in your window. Yes it'll keep switching and woulnd't work as well for long distance abilities, but if it's optional who can complain.

I thought about that, but I think the constant view switching would be totally unbearable, probably even more than the original camera. That's why I ended up with the split-screen idea, which seems to be inevitable.

Don't get me wrong, I love the SC2 camera too, but I just can't see how it could work with more than two ships. :(


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on November 09, 2007, 10:37:09 pm
Oh, I definitely love the SC2-style camera dynamic as well. But the problems / challenges have just mounted on that one. SC2 kept it simple, which made it easier to implement and easier to play. Unfortunately, I added some extra elements to the game which make the camera problem fairly complex. The split-screen, I think, works fairly well. It will probably be what's used in "Beta Mark II." I need to do some play tests with it though.

The list of things that have been put on hold thanks to the camera:
  • Completing all the ships
  • Completing all the levels
  • Better game-play balancing
  • Experiments with network support
  • Experiments with a ship / level designer

The last two, of course, would be ideally suited for as second programmer. But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much interest. Every time I talk to a potential programmer about some help, the response is always, "Ooh, hey, cool! Can I design all the ships?"  ::)

Did players like the centered-ship when playing SC:Timewarp?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on November 20, 2007, 11:34:28 pm
Quote
The list of things that have been put on hold thanks to the camera:

Completing all the ships
Completing all the levels
Better game-play balancing
Experiments with network support
Experiments with a ship / level designer

The last two, of course, would be ideally suited for as second programmer. But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much interest. Every time I talk to a potential programmer about some help, the response is always, "Ooh, hey, cool! Can I design all the ships?"


Of course, everyone wants to do the "cool" stuff. What sort of plans do you have for level design? walls, bases? It doesn't seem you have much need for an editor, at least not yet.

Quote
Did players like the centered-ship when playing SC:Timewarp?

TW 's approach is ok, definately playable, although  it seems like a radar would have been better than the colored arrows pointing toward the enemy. At least imo.

btw the split screen idea seems pretty good. The seperate views just eat up alot of screen real estate.

Also, what do you think about somthing similar to SC melee ship selection where you have an up/down scoll bar where you select a ship, (similarity ends here) then just drag and drop it to any team square? Right now, perhaps it's just me, but the ship selection could be so much simpler and intuitive. It's not a show stopper, but just a thought..


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on November 24, 2007, 10:39:49 pm
We've had some talks about different levels.... some are more complex than others. The first three are the gaseous level that was in the first beta, a level where you fight in the rings of a gas planet, and one where you fight around a planet that sucks in rocks from the outside of the planet with its gravity. We've talked about inside a giant ship yard, inside the belly of an asteroid, etc, etc... but to be honest level design has been ground to a halt for a while now. :(

As far as ship selection goes, I did add mouse control,  which I think helps. But it's possible that it's not the right way to do it. It really was designed with the idea that four players would all have a gamepad and selecting simultaneously. I don't know why I assumed that usage model!

Right now I've had to take a little breather as I finish up some school work. I'll keep people posted if I make another big advancement. :)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on November 27, 2007, 11:59:13 pm
We've had some talks about different levels.... some are more complex than others. The first three are the gaseous level that was in the first beta, a level where you fight in the rings of a gas planet, and one where you fight around a planet that sucks in rocks from the outside of the planet with its gravity. We've talked about inside a giant ship yard, inside the belly of an asteroid, etc, etc... but to be honest level design has been ground to a halt for a while now. :(

Those are some pretty good ideas. What do you think about goal orientated levels? Such as escort capital ship to x,y warp point.. Or players fighting to capture small space stations which have automatic defense and you can capture them back? Capture the flag?
Players could battle for control of that big barge floating around in the xeno beta.

Quote
As far as ship selection goes, I did add mouse control,  which I think helps. But it's possible that it's not the right way to do it. It really was designed with the idea that four players would all have a gamepad and selecting simultaneously. I don't know why I assumed that usage model!

Gotcha. Since my one joystick always pulls to the left I rarely use it and don't tend to remember that most people are not as joystick impared as I. I suppose that is how your game is meant to be played.

Quote
Right now I've had to take a little breather as I finish up some school work. I'll keep people posted if I make another big advancement. :)
I did set back my system date and fired up the beta.. once. :) I've been busy trying to finsih my second GM game, ( which rocks I might add ;) ). I'm lookin forward to your next beta.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on December 15, 2007, 09:18:58 pm
Okay, sorry for lack of responses. School was killer for a few weeks there as we tried to crank out a conference paper based on my thesis research... then job interviews, birthday parties, etc, etc....

Anywho, I've added a HUD to the split screen that I think works. I'm going to eventually build in higher resolutions, such that the HUD takes up less screen space. But below you can see a pic that shows the lowest resolution with the energy bars and pilot pic.

(http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_thinner_thumb.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/split_thinner.jpg)

So now onto RTyp06's question.....

Quote
Those are some pretty good ideas. What do you think about goal orientated levels?

I thought about, perhaps, protecting colony/civilian ships or something for a level. I like the idea. I just haven't gotten to that point. I've also thought of a level that could take place over a city, where it's air force sends out little jets to attack you... sort of like nuisance elements in there.

As far as joystick control, I actually agree that I need to make it more computer user friendly (keyboard, mouse). So even though I originally managed gameplay all with a stick, I shouldn't keep it that way completely.

So here's a question I have... what do people think of Street Fighter style combo moves? Or is the weapon + special ability style from SC enough?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on December 20, 2007, 01:16:02 am
Quote
So here's a question I have... what do people think of Street Fighter style combo moves? Or is the weapon + special ability style from SC enough?

I guess it depends upon what you want. I wasn't really a huge SF fan but loved Mortal Kombat, although I pretty much sucked at it. I personally am not a fan of remembering button combos to achieve a certain result ,but others may.

When I start my melee project (early '08 most likely) I'll probably try for one primary weapon, one bomb type weapon and one unique special ability/weapon for each ship.  You may have heard of the game Sub Space (now called Continuum) which will give you an idea of where my ideas are. Unlike SS though, my approach to multiplayer will probably just be two players.

http://subspace.legendzones.com/


BTW I like the new hud. Thats probably going to be the best way to achieve 4 player matches imo.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Resh Aleph on December 20, 2007, 10:33:13 am
I personally am not a fan of remembering button combos to achieve a certain result

+1


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on January 11, 2008, 11:46:50 pm
Okie doke. No combos. It was just a random thought. :) I certainly had no plans/code in place for it.

Right now I'm in the process of shrinking the game. Basically, I felt that I let the infamous "feature creep" take over. So quite a few features and some of the content is being cut back. The plus side is it makes the game significantly closer to completion, and allows me to focus on polishing it off to a professional level.

One major change is the selection screen. I loved my old screen. But many people found it unintuitive. And it was a mess in the code --many features needed to be fixed. So I scrapped it in favor of a simple drag-and-drop interface.
(http://www.xenoclone.com/images/select_screen_thumb.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/select_screen.jpg)

Perhaps of note is that I'm only going to "launch" with 12 ships. It was steadily becoming a nightmare to balance/debug/finish 27 ships with 3 configurations each (81 ships!). So it's down to the 12 with 3 configs each. As such, we're going to add three more species and ship styles.

I'm thinking 3-4 levels. The green one in the beta, the purple planet one in the pics, and whichever others turn out right. (We've got 3 other candidates... and none are ready.)

There won't be any fleet saving/loading.... and fleets will only comprise of 3 ships instead of 6. And, of course, I'm going split screen with a "soft" boundary around the level instead of wrapping.

The goal is to make the game much more "pick up and play"-able. :)

UPDATE: made thumb click-able to full-res pic.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: evktalo on January 14, 2008, 03:12:15 pm
Less ships is a wise choice. Easier to create the content and definitely easier to balance into an enjoyable selection of ships!

--Eino


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on January 14, 2008, 11:41:21 pm
Okie doke. No combos. It was just a random thought. :) I certainly had no plans/code in place for it.

Well, it is just two guys opinions. Simple combos involving 2 buttons might not be too bad.

Quote
One major change is the selection screen. I loved my old screen. But many people found it unintuitive. And it was a mess in the code --many features needed to be fixed. So I scrapped it in favor of a simple drag-and-drop interface.

I'm starting to realize how important mouse control is for PC titles with single play. Assuming of course you are using the mouse for D & D.

Quote
Perhaps of note is that I'm only going to "launch" with 12 ships. It was steadily becoming a nightmare to balance/debug/finish 27 ships with 3 configurations each (81 ships!). So it's down to the 12 with 3 configs each. As such, we're going to add three more species and ship styles.

Probably a good move. More content can always be added later.

Quote
I'm thinking 3-4 levels. The green one in the beta, the purple planet one in the pics, and whichever others turn out right. (We've got 3 other candidates... and none are ready.)

There won't be any fleet saving/loading.... and fleets will only comprise of 3 ships instead of 6. And, of course, I'm going split screen with a "soft" boundary around the level instead of wrapping.

The goal is to make the game much more "pick up and play"-able. :)

These sound great. When is that second beta coming again? ;) Thnx for the update.

btw Srry if you mentioned this before, but who does the artwork for Xeno?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on January 17, 2008, 10:13:33 pm
Good to hear a couple of positive votes for my cuts. I'm having only a few minor issues with the new HUD/screens/camera... but it should be good.

Quote
btw Srry if you mentioned this before, but who does the artwork for Xeno?

I don't know if you mentioned it before or not. Not a problem to answer either way. It's multiple artists. The anime characters are all done by my sister at http://www.mauizu.com (http://www.mauizu.com). The background art, like nebulas and planets, are primarily done by my wife. And then I do everything else (ships, objects, weapons, GUI, etc).

Quote
When is that second beta coming again?

Well I tend to only be a couple months late to whatever date I give. :) I don't know how far off it is.... probably not this month, like I'd hoped. February, maybe?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on March 06, 2008, 12:15:56 am
Anything new? (trying  not to make the bump too obvious) ;)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on March 07, 2008, 07:36:12 pm
No news at the moment. I changed jobs and bought a house between my last post and now. So programming hours got replaced with packing hours and so forth. Things are starting to settle down though. (We just moved in like 2 weeks ago.) There's been a tiny bit of progress on the art, but that's about it. I should be able to get cracking again soon.  :)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on April 22, 2008, 08:38:20 pm
Here's an internal debate that I've been wrangling with. What's more desirable: a Star Control style 2 player game and camera? Or a 4 player game, but one that's limited within a bounded arena?

I'm at this crossroads where I feel like I'm just going to have to use what I've got (~9 ships, 3 levels) and crank something out. So for me, I'm starting to lean toward just doing a 2 player game, SC style, start with the limited content and wrap things up fast. Thoughts?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on May 01, 2008, 11:43:30 pm
Any reason to "wrap things up fast"? Some sort of time constraint ? I suspect you're having some major problems with the four player idea? I don't know about "desireable" but a 2 player game might be alright although it's already a pretty crowded arena. Check out Timewarp for an example if you haven't already.

 Timewarp (http://timewarp.sourceforge.net/)




Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Shiver on May 02, 2008, 02:27:51 am
Wouldn't I have to pay a little to play this? You'd best throw extra sprinkles and a cherry on top of this game if you expect $$$ for it.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on May 03, 2008, 11:51:28 pm
I think the major problems with 4 player are:
1- it partially breaks rock-paper-scissors balancing that works well in SC
2- it breaks the SC style camera
3- various annoyances thanks to 1 and 2

On the flip side:
1- I personally love 4-player games
2- it's not commonly done in this genre

I have seen Timewarp and, obviously, I'd like to 1-better it. As far as charging goes... it's totally up in the air. It really depends on where it goes. I've always figured that even if I charged I'd just give it away free to everyone whose given me feedback. I think that's fair. :)

So, I dunno. This has been a funky project. It started out small, then ballooned into something too big, and now I'm trimming it down again. I want to re-focus it... I just don't know how. :(


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Shiver on May 04, 2008, 12:15:39 am
My $0.02 again:

I'd rather have a four player game. Rock-Paper-Scissors using a string of different ships is pretty much what UQM net melee is already. Balance the ships so that they work best in a free for all. Give players an incentive to attack each other so the best strategy isn't to stay out of the fray. For instance, maybe every ship could have an extra ability that only turns on once that ship has scored a kill.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on May 04, 2008, 02:31:27 pm
Have you explored the possibility of 2 vs. 2 ? This might aleviate some of the problems of an independent four player melee, but I realize does nothing for the camera issues. Four players on one machine is a tough one to pull off.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Lukipela on May 04, 2008, 07:55:58 pm
Have you explored the possibility of 2 vs. 2 ? This might aleviate some of the problems of an independent four player melee, but I realize does nothing for the camera issues. Four players on one machine is a tough one to pull off.

This would add a lot of strategy too I suppose, much like the whole in game "Utwix and Supox vs Kohr-ah" battles.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on May 06, 2008, 01:55:40 am
I think tag teams are an interesting idea. I'd actually thought of that one as a solution to the 4-player problem, where you'd tag in your teammate but only 2 ships battle at once.

There's a newer version of Torque 2D that's in beta right now. It's got some major improvements to the physics and whatnot. The improvements would make networking easier in the future, amongst other things. I'm considering a rework of sorts on certain major components of the script code. So with the new engine and my desire to do a little bit o' spring cleaning, what I want to do is make sure I don't go thru the camera / gui / etc.. process again. Hence why I've brought up the discussion. :)

The thing with this game is it was just a "learn how to use Torque" project that ended up taking off in a big way. So it never had a proper design in place like I do for newer projects. For example, I completed a fairly sophisticated mini chess game in about 3 month's time, and I am wrapping up another board game that only took me ~6 weeks. This game can go just as "fast" if I can just decide what to do with the darn thing, lol.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Shiver on May 06, 2008, 02:20:53 am
I think tag teams are an interesting idea. I'd actually thought of that one as a solution to the 4-player problem, where you'd tag in your teammate but only 2 ships battle at once.

Pkunk Fury flies to the opposite end of the screen. Pkunk taps out, Earthling appears in its place. Earthling slings a couple nukes at the opposing craft. Earthling taps out, Pkunk appears in its place. Repeat.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Particleman42 on May 06, 2008, 04:18:51 am
I think tag teams are an interesting idea. I'd actually thought of that one as a solution to the 4-player problem, where you'd tag in your teammate but only 2 ships battle at once.

Pkunk Fury flies to the opposite end of the screen. Pkunk taps out, Earthling appears in its place. Earthling slings a couple nukes at the opposing craft. Earthling taps out, Pkunk appears in its place. Repeat.

Well, maybe you could make tagged in ships appear in the same way as the beginning of a match. That is to say, a random position (in most cases).


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on May 07, 2008, 11:22:50 pm
I think tag teams are an interesting idea. I'd actually thought of that one as a solution to the 4-player problem, where you'd tag in your teammate but only 2 ships battle at once.

Pkunk Fury flies to the opposite end of the screen. Pkunk taps out, Earthling appears in its place. Earthling slings a couple nukes at the opposing craft. Earthling taps out, Pkunk appears in its place. Repeat.

Well, maybe you could make tagged in ships appear in the same way as the beginning of a match. That is to say, a random position (in most cases).

Yeah I'm not too keen on a tap out system, too easy to abuse. Although much could be solved with ship balancing and perhaps a timer between taps. Tapping would bring up new issues, like healing between taps? Should they only be able to tap if energy or health  is a certain level? Should tapping cost energy or health? etc.

2 vs. 2 full on would be a blast if it could be pulled off.  Consider two star control style cameras that focus on a team ship and the enemy that is closest to that ship. Kinda simple really.

ironc note: I believe I read that Yoyo's third competition is themed "Cooperation" (last was ancient civilization just finishing up). I may have to fool around with this idea... ;)


 


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Particleman42 on May 08, 2008, 04:55:22 am
ironc note: I believe I read that Yoyo's third competition is themed "Cooperation" (last was ancient civilization just finishing up). I may have to fool around with this idea... ;)

Maybe...I think Star Control is copyrighted though. Are you any good with game maker?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: RTyp06 on May 08, 2008, 11:54:05 pm
ironc note: I believe I read that Yoyo's third competition is themed "Cooperation" (last was ancient civilization just finishing up). I may have to fool around with this idea... ;)

Maybe...I think Star Control is copyrighted though. Are you any good with game maker?

So so, I've been using it about a year now. Getting better, learning particles finally. I'm even making my own music files now.

Here's the link to my games. And yes, they're kinda weak but I learned alot while making them.

Link (http://www.yoyogames.com/games/show/22316)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Particleman42 on May 09, 2008, 04:34:13 am
ironc note: I believe I read that Yoyo's third competition is themed "Cooperation" (last was ancient civilization just finishing up). I may have to fool around with this idea... ;)

Maybe...I think Star Control is copyrighted though. Are you any good with game maker?

So so, I've been using it about a year now. Getting better, learning particles finally. I'm even making my own music files now.

Here's the link to my games. And yes, they're kinda weak but I learned alot while making them.

Link (http://www.yoyogames.com/games/show/22316)

I just played your missile defense game, but I didn't get past the third level...It was still good though! If I applied myself, I had some good ideas for games, but I'm too lazy...oh well :)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on June 16, 2008, 11:20:44 pm
Hey guys, I just wanted to give a little update. I'm not dead. I've just been re-ordering my projects. I cranked out a couple games  (Xeno Sola (http://www.xenoclone.com/game_xenosola.html) and (Mini Chess (http://www.xenoclone.com/game_minichess.html)) and got them on sale off my site. I'm gonna crank out one more "little" project (Mini Shogi), which should be done within a week or two, and then I'm going to focus on fixing up Xeno Versus and wrapping it up. :)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: evktalo on June 25, 2008, 12:40:39 pm
Hey, that's great news. Congrats on getting the games out! I'll definitely check out Xeno Sola.

---Eino


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on July 01, 2008, 05:55:28 am
Thanks for the 'grats. Xeno Sola is starting to get a little bit of attention from indie sites. It should appear on gametunnel.com next month and on games du jour the month after that. There's been some apparent pirating going on already though.... :(

Right now, things are starting to pick up again for Xeno Versus. We've got the art done for two more levels as well as a bit more character art. So I've decided to up my game and get the ships a little more detailed. (Power ups, as a result, probably will not affect ship appearance as much... if at all.) Old and new next to each other.

Razor
(http://www.xenoclone.com/images/razor_lo.png) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/razor_hi.png)

Scarab
(http://www.xenoclone.com/images/scarab_lo.png) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/scarab_hi.png)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone
Post by: xenoclone on November 18, 2008, 06:10:36 pm
Wow! It's been a while. So here's what's up. As promised, I re-ordered my projects. I've released Mini Chess, Xeno Sola, and Mini Shogi since my last post. You can find them here (http://www.xenoclone.com/games.html). They were a great way to learn how the whole indie game dev process goes: creating an installer, generating activation keys, demo modes, getting reviewed, etc, etc....

So with those done, I've turned my attention back to the project. For starters, I rebooted the code from scratch with great results. It's only been about a week back on the project, but it's already got the basics in place. Here are a few pics:

(http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_prev_thumb_1.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_prev_pic_1.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_prev_thumb_2.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_prev_pic_2.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_prev_thumb_3.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/xv_prev_pic_3.jpg)

I've had to make a few tough decisions in order to simplify development. Those include:
  • 9 ships
  • 3 ships per fleet
  • 2 players
  • 4 levels
  • Levels will be boxed in; but all ships will teleport
  • Only 1 resolution

On the plus side, the game will now be in 1024x768 resolution instead of 800x600. And the ships are 128x128 instead of 62x46.  Still undecided: the in-game health / energy HUD.

The next pics I'll post should have the finished HUD and some more ships.  ;D


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Zzzzrrr on November 26, 2008, 08:03:00 pm
When are you going to make a playable release? Any plants to open source the project?

Overall I think you've created an excellent melee clone (I've tried the previous betas a few times) although I don't quite understand Japanese Anime theme... It would also be very neat if you added a tactical star map similar to SC1.



Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on December 02, 2008, 12:44:34 am
Well if the history of this thread shows anything, it's that I'm bad with time estimates. But XVS is playable right now with the two ships. So if things go well, there might be some sort of alpha/beta/demo type thing for people to try out. The biggest things left are content and balancing. And content plug-in should go fairly quickly, since it's mostly ship art and character art that needs to be wrapped up.

Open source? Probably not. But who knows how things will go?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on December 30, 2008, 09:43:07 pm
I thought I'd post a four-weeks-later update. Things are going really well. I managed to integrate in a nice fuzzy logic class into the engine, which has helped make a smooth and challenging AI -- MUCH better than the AI of old. Two ships are done and a third ship has been started. I've already integrated a number of effects, sounds, music, etc...

I made one change-up from my plan. After a bit of play-testing, the teleport didn't seem necessary for all ships. So instead each ship gets a third ability, which I've dubbed "defense." It has helped ensure the ships stay balanced. The "Scarab" (shown above) plays fairly similar to a Kohr-Ah with cloak. While the "Razor" plays a bit more like a Suppox / Thraddash hybrid with mini-ships.

Sooo.... I'm not entirely sure when I can get a playable alpha up. Maybe within a couple weeks from now?


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on January 05, 2009, 07:55:13 pm
Here's a pre-alpha youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLbVU-XIs-k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLbVU-XIs-k)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Lachie Dazdarian on January 05, 2009, 09:46:46 pm
This looks really cool.

It seems to be very similar in engine physics to my project. Then again, I didn't notice much rigid body phicics interation in the last video, as it was visible from earlier ones. You dropped that aspect?

BTW, how did you draw the background? Curious.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on January 06, 2009, 06:32:36 pm
Rigid body physics are indeed still in place. I've actually put in mass / inertia factors into the current version as well. As a result, the little yellow bullets won't knock a big ship back very far. But something like a big blade will knock back a little ship pretty good.

The backgrounds are all done by my wife, who used Photoshop.

Excellent progress is being made... I'm feeling good about getting something up and playable soon. :)

Standalone ship tutorial prompt, shown below.
(http://www.xenoclone.com/images/tutorial_thumb.jpg) (http://www.xenoclone.com/images/tutorial.jpg)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on January 23, 2009, 08:14:25 pm
As promised, something playable this month. Go to: alpha.xenoversus.com (http://alpha.xenoversus.com/) to download the game. As a thank you, if you fill out the form on the site letting me know your thoughts, you can pick a free game key to receive for any of my released games. There are still some obvious bugs in this version, but I really wanted to get a copy out there for folks to try out. Thoughts are obviously welcome in this thread as well. :)

Note that if you want two players on a local machine, you'll have to plug in a game pad. Torque appears to dislike having too many keys pressed at once. So as a precaution, for the time being, I've limited the keyboard to only one player.

Thanks!


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: jaychant on January 23, 2009, 08:46:25 pm
Not bad. The AI murders you with the black one.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Dragon on January 24, 2009, 09:36:06 am
I like it - except for one gamepad control gripe.  Would be possible to have the rotate and thrust controls for the gamepad like the keyboard?  With the current control setup I assume that the direction I'm pressing is the direction I'll accelerate in (whereas - obviously - it's the direction the ship is facing).


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Shiver on January 25, 2009, 04:30:09 am
It's definitely an alpha version, but the game seems fun enough. Will the final version be playable over the net? That's kind of a make-or-break for me.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on January 26, 2009, 05:37:43 pm
@Dragon. Yup, that's easy to make an option. Right now the D-Pad works that way.

@Shiver: I don't think there will be net play. I'm *slowly* building up what my games can do. Maybe next one!

Hopefully more people can check it out and let me know their thoughts. I've had a decent traffic surge, but not much input....



Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Bigryan on February 14, 2009, 11:09:35 pm
looks awesome  based o the youtube vid... I'd love to try this.


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on February 18, 2009, 12:25:50 am
You can absolutely try it. I've got an alpha version up for anyone to try here: http://xenoclone.com/project_xenoversus.html (http://xenoclone.com/project_xenoversus.html).  ;D

I'd love to get your thoughts on it. :)



Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: Angelfish on September 22, 2009, 03:08:41 pm
hmm, gotta check this out when I get home ;)


Title: Re: SuperMelee Clone (Beta II In-Progress)
Post by: xenoclone on October 20, 2009, 06:27:09 pm
I'm hoping to do a 2nd reboot of this project at some point... there's a new version of Torque2D on the horizon that will support true real-time networking. I'm thinking about holding out until that is released.

Definitely some ideas still floating around in my head... this project is like my Duke Nukem 3D. I keep releasing other games but I'm never sure what to do with this one!