The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Justice on January 21, 2007, 05:27:10 am



Title: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Justice on January 21, 2007, 05:27:10 am
Well, Shiver was mostly kicking my posterior at UQM tonight, and then something amazing happened:

Click here to watch Ur-Quan-Wedge ZMBV version (http://media.putfile.com/Ur-Quan-Wedge)
Click here to watch Ur-Quan-Wedge-MPEG (MPEG version if you don't have ZMBV) (http://media.putfile.com/Ur-Quan-Wedge-MPEG)
And here is a YouTube version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKH2JSMJ_-Q)

I didn't know androsynth could do that to Ur-Quan ships, and I guess neither did he.

Full match:
Click here to watch Justice-vs-Shiver-ZMBV (http://media.putfile.com/Justice-vs-Shiver-ZMBV) (ZMBV only)
Apparently Google Video works for long videos.  Kinda crappy quality though (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7793302849779362223)

Hopefully someone will add a 16 or 32 bit ZMBV encoder to ffmpeg soon...

I tried to upload the match to YouTube as well, but
1) It didn't take my zmbv video, so I had to upload a much larger and crappier looking mpeg
2) After uploading the mpeg, it complained that it was too long (not too large, but too long).


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: darkheart on January 21, 2007, 07:31:04 am
XDDD
nice


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Heegu on January 21, 2007, 08:30:54 am
Well, androsyth can beat uq easily with their long range bubles too.. Still a funny trick like with CHMMR.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Anthony on January 21, 2007, 04:13:48 pm
That is a really cool clip.  It's hard to make the Androsynth stick to the ship; just a matter of aiming it just right...


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: kwamp on January 21, 2007, 06:08:54 pm
That's funny.  Just yesterday I was playing a ton vs computer (didn't even think to check IRC) and had a wedge on a Kohr-Ah (the side of the ship where it pinches), a Chenjesu, a Supox (side), a Spathi (inbetween the arms), an Earthling (side, in front of the thrusters), and a Chmmr (corner of wing and body).. it was the most incredible run of 1 Androsynth I've ever seen.


How do you record your playing?  I've got to do that.

Also, on a side "interesting note" note:  The Slylandro Probe is equally as fast as a Androsynth Guardian in comet mode.  Not a good ship to pick vs. the probe, IMO.

-Kwamp


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Justice on January 21, 2007, 07:21:20 pm

How do you record your playing?  I've got to do that.

I wrote a patch that dumps pngs of each rendered frame, and then just ffmpeg -i screen%06d.png -vcodec zmbv shiver.avi

It's not great, since I can't do audio, the framerate isn't always consistent, and I haven't added a way to start or stop recording...

Quote
Also, on a side "interesting note" note:  The Slylandro Probe is equally as fast as a Androsynth Guardian in comet mode.  Not a good ship to pick vs. the probe, IMO.

I'm not a very good Guardian user, but wouldn't the bubbles work pretty well since the Probe is big and has to get to close range?

Also, apparently Google will take long videos, so I added that up in the original post (took a long time for Google to process it though).  Quality isn't very good though.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Shiver on January 21, 2007, 10:50:17 pm
I'm not sure I like that my IP now appears on Google video. Could you get in the habit starting a recording a little later from now on?


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Justice on January 21, 2007, 11:04:25 pm
Oh, that's bad... I'll have to cut that out in the future.  Do you want me to pull the video off Google?


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Shiver on January 21, 2007, 11:11:24 pm
Oh, that's bad... I'll have to cut that out in the future.  Do you want me to pull the video off Google?

Yes. I have a firewall, but it still bugs me.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Justice on January 22, 2007, 02:39:33 am
Ok, I told Google to delete it ( don't know how long that will take ) and put up a new one with the first 42 seconds chopped off.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Justice on January 23, 2007, 06:02:10 am
It seems to be fixed.  Now for some stupidity: observe as I take on Angus with a fleet entirely composed of Umgah Drones:

Click here to watch Angus-top-vs-Justice-Umgah-bottom (ZMBV) (http://media.putfile.com/Angus-top-vs-Justice-Umgah-bottom)
Google Video version (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4221996104771315373&hl=en)



Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Justice on January 28, 2007, 05:10:08 am
New video:

Kinda back-and-forth, we both have some embarrassing losses.  I lose by over 40 points in the end though.  I use a Slylandro Probe for the first time in MP, with good results (although AusME admits to having trouble facing that ship).

Click here to watch AusME-top-vs-Justice-bottom-ZMBV (high quality) (http://media.putfile.com/AusME-top-vs-Justice-bottom-ZMBV)
Google Video version (low quality) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7025261661491070359&hl=en)


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Rook on March 16, 2007, 02:05:36 am
That's funny.  Just yesterday I was playing a ton vs computer (didn't even think to check IRC) and had a wedge on a Kohr-Ah (the side of the ship where it pinches), a Chenjesu, a Supox (side), a Spathi (inbetween the arms), an Earthling (side, in front of the thrusters), and a Chmmr (corner of wing and body).. it was the most incredible run of 1 Androsynth I've ever seen.

-Kwamp

A friend and I normally play hotseat just about every day and notice the same thing with the above ships and also with Orz (front).  It  is weird that in all my years of playing the original on the PC I had never seen this happen.  Is it something that was common with the 3DO version?  Were the hit boxes on the PC version different?


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Shiver on March 16, 2007, 05:31:45 am
A friend and I normally play hotseat just about every day and notice the same thing with the above ships and also with Orz (front).  It  is weird that in all my years of playing the original on the PC I had never seen this happen.  Is it something that was common with the 3DO version?  Were the hit boxes on the PC version different?

If the hitboxes (I thought that was a First Person Shooter thing?) were different, that would explain why the Androsynth only costs 15 points and plays much stronger than that in UQM.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Valaggar on March 17, 2007, 03:14:41 pm
Nope, it's just because you gained many XP points since then (experience).
UQM is a straight port of 3DO SC2, which in turn is a port of DOS SC2.
And in DOS SC2, the Guardian still costed 15 points.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Clay on March 17, 2007, 04:18:13 pm
Have you ever considered FRAPS? I use it for all my game-recording needs.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Rook on March 19, 2007, 12:06:14 am
If the hitboxes (I thought that was a First Person Shooter thing?) were different, that would explain why the Androsynth only costs 15 points and plays much stronger than that in UQM.

Definately used to be the same point value in DOS Version.

I am thinking it might have something to do with the hitboxes and the improved resolutions available in UQM.
 


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Valaggar on March 19, 2007, 02:30:00 pm
No, the resolutions are not taken into account for collision detection, they are just eye-candy. The game is in fact still 320x200.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Novus on March 19, 2007, 07:08:27 pm
No, the resolutions are not taken into account for collision detection, they are just eye-candy. The game is in fact still 320x200.
Actually, it's 320x240, as on the 3DO. However, the screen layouts have been changed in UQM to make use of the large amounts of space left unused on the 3DO version near the borders to compensate for TV overscan. The result is that the screen layout in UQM mirrors neither PC SC2 nor 3DO SC2 entirely.

Vicious pedantry aside, Valaggar is right. Most of the game code runs at 320x240 irrespective of screen resolution; scaling is applied to the image that is shown on screen at the last minute and doesn't affect collision detection.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Valaggar on April 04, 2007, 03:45:56 pm
As a sidenote, what do you prefer? The more boring yet much easier and sure way of bubbling a Chmmr with the Androsynth to end its existence, or just a CHARGE!!! and wedge - shorter and funnier?


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Shiver on April 05, 2007, 05:40:56 am
As a sidenote, what do you prefer? The more boring yet much easier and sure way of bubbling a Chmmr with the Androsynth to end its existence, or just a CHARGE!!! and wedge - shorter and funnier?

If someone brings out an Androsynth and starts bubble massing against my Chmmr, I'm pretty much going to quit after a few minutes of evading them. In no way, shape or form does such a disgusting tactic belong in online melee.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Cedric6014 on April 05, 2007, 09:02:24 am
You have been warned!


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Valaggar on April 05, 2007, 12:14:03 pm
Anyway, I really love CHARGING! I'd be the first to quit if I'd use bubbling...
Plus, I'm good at wedging.
Also, human players tend to turn their Avatar towards the encroaching Blazer, which is a fatal mistake - you can't hit it, ZapSats are enough and also you'll be easier to wedge!!!


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: guesst on April 07, 2007, 06:57:44 am
As a sidenote, what do you prefer? The more boring yet much easier and sure way of bubbling a Chmmr with the Androsynth to end its existence, or just a CHARGE!!! and wedge - shorter and funnier?

If someone brings out an Androsynth and starts bubble massing against my Chmmr, I'm pretty much going to quit after a few minutes of evading them. In no way, shape or form does such a disgusting tactic belong in online melee.

This thread make me wish for two things for UQM. First, a way to record movies from the game natively. That'd be cool.

The rest of what I'd love to see, a way to prevent pill-boxing dorks from...being pill-boxing dork. However, that would mean fundimentally changing the gameplay mechanics. And since some sort of user-commented rating system can be too easily misused I suppose we'll just have to live with the pill-boxing.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Valaggar on April 07, 2007, 08:31:56 am
Ah, about pillboxing - in fact, there's always clear WHICH ship should attack.
For example, in Thraddash vs Umgah, Thraddash must charge through the Umgah cone, because there's no other possible way to end the battle.

The only real stalemate I've ever met is Supox vs Utwig: Supox shoots, Utwig blocks with the shield, the battle doesn't end.
Though, since the Supox is faster and is the attacking ship, I think the Utwig should surrender, because he can't win.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Shiver on April 07, 2007, 09:12:01 am
The rest of what I'd love to see, a way to prevent pill-boxing dorks from...being pill-boxing dork. However, that would mean fundimentally changing the gameplay mechanics. And since some sort of user-commented rating system can be too easily misused I suppose we'll just have to live with the pill-boxing.

This statement is way off the mark. Pillboxing is what makes ships like the Utwig not suck completely. It also does a lot of good in stopping the idiotic 10-point Thraddash from beating practically everything else in the game through sheer persistence. Also note that pillboxing isn't really an end-all solution. If an Ur-Quan pillboxes against an Arilou, the Arilou can eventually break into the Ur-Quan's blindspot and do small amounts of damage over and over until it wins. Pillboxing is an entirely legitimate tactic.

Quote from: Valaggar
The only real stalemate I've ever met is Supox vs Utwig: Supox shoots, Utwig blocks with the shield, the battle doesn't end.
Though, since the Supox is faster and is the attacking ship, I think the Utwig should surrender, because he can't win.

Supox destroys a pillboxing Utwig by shooting only one pellet at a time. The Utwig's shield will eventually run out because Supox shots don't do enough damage to refill the battery. If you want to see some real ugly stalemates, try Thraddash vs Yehat or Thraddash vs Androsynth.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Valaggar on April 07, 2007, 09:45:51 am
Thraddash vs Androsynth - Thraddash shoots blasters, the Androsynth can't reach him in normal form, so he must Blaze to attack him.
Then Thraddash uses his afterburner and kills the Androsynth.

Thraddash vs Yehat - the Yehat is the pillboxer, he is the defender, so he must move on and CHARGE!!!
But Thraddash will afterburn. Yehat can shield and then avoid the hot plasma.
Then Thraddash sees that he can only win by blasting, but this takes centuries, so he surrenders.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Shiver on April 07, 2007, 10:33:29 am
Aaarggh. I've never seen you in UQM-Arena yet you're trying to tell me how PVP works. I hate this crap sometimes. Okay buddy, let's go over those match-ups again the right way.

Quote from: Valaggar
Thraddash vs Androsynth - Thraddash shoots blasters, the Androsynth can't reach him in normal form, so he must Blaze to attack him. Then Thraddash uses his afterburner and kills the Androsynth.

No. If the Androsynth dies by blazing into a flame jet, that is sloppy piloting and the player controlling it most likely didn't care too much if he lost. In a competitive match between people that know up from down, this fight is a very long and agonizing deadlock. The Androsynth will take a big bubble bath, because who wants to lose a 15 point ship to a 10 point one? This forces the Thraddash to try and get blaster shots on the Androsynth while not dying to bubbles. In truth, either side can win it sooner or later but you'd have to be a real jerk to try and pit either of these ships against the other on purpose. I consider this match a deadlock because it takes all friggin' year to finish.

Quote from: Valaggar
Thraddash vs Yehat - the Yehat is the pillboxer, he is the defender, so he must move on and CHARGE!!!
But Thraddash will afterburn. Yehat can shield and then avoid the hot plasma.
Then Thraddash sees that he can only win by blasting, but this takes centuries, so he surrenders.

"...A pillboxer so he must charge"? Do you even know what pillbox means? There is no pillboxing involved because the Thraddash's blaster has a massive range advantage over the Yehat's guns. The problem is that the Yehat can't reach the Thraddash and the Thraddash can't damage the Yehat. The Thraddash is too fast and has too much range, the Yehat has a shield that basically gives it god mode against the Thraddash.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Valaggar on April 07, 2007, 11:11:02 am
Quote from: Shiver
No. If the Androsynth dies by blazing into a flame jet, that is sloppy piloting and the player controlling it most likely didn't care too much if he lost. In a competitive match between people that know up from down, this fight is a very long and agonizing deadlock. The Androsynth will take a big bubble bath, because who wants to lose a 15 point ship to a 10 point one? This forces the Thraddash to try and get blaster shots on the Androsynth while not dying to bubbles. In truth, either side can win it sooner or later but you'd have to be a real jerk to try and pit either of these ships against the other on purpose. I consider this match a deadlock because it takes all friggin' year to finish.
Aha... then it's not a stalemate, but a loooong fight. Kinda what happens if you try to defeat a cloaked Ilwrath with a Y-Form.

Quote from: Shiver
"...A pillboxer so he must charge"? Do you even know what pillbox means? There is no pillboxing involved because the Thraddash's blaster has a massive range advantage over the Yehat's guns. The problem is that the Yehat can't reach the Thraddash and the Thraddash can't damage the Yehat. The Thraddash is too fast and has too much range, the Yehat has a shield that basically gives it god mode against the Thraddash.
Aha... still, the Thraddash is cheaper than the Yehat, so it's better to let the Yehat win, since a loss of 23 points is worse than a loss of 10 points.
Or both players hit the planets, and the two forces of evil mutually annihilate each other.


Title: Re: Amazing Androsynth vs Ur-Quan wedge
Post by: Shiver on April 07, 2007, 11:20:09 am
I think I'm coming around to Elvish Pillager's way of thinking: ban Thraddash from serious PVP. It's a fun ship, but it's also completely moronic at high levels of play. The worst deadlocks all occur with Thraddash.