The Ur-Quan Masters Discussion Forum

The Ur-Quan Masters Re-Release => General UQM Discussion => Topic started by: Neonlare on January 27, 2007, 11:01:45 pm



Title: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on January 27, 2007, 11:01:45 pm
Howdy, after much brain storming, I have decided, that I want to work on a fan-game...

(http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/2360/logomo6.png)

Yesh, after much time, changing the sprites and so on, I want to make a game that isn't a pure out-and-out clone of Star Control 2, but rather a tribute, tracking down the story of another group of characters involved in the Battles after the Grand Seige.

But, like I said at the top, I do need some help with coding, I'm more of a graphics man myself, but since I want this to be NESified (NSF style music, pallette limit, etc) then that section does not need much focus, so I'll try to do as much coding as I can, but I'm very amaturish at the coding thing :/.

Why help? Well, I think it'd add an extra dimension to the Story of Star Control, asking questions and answering them, but all in all, to make something fun. That's the major issue.

So far I've got done:

GRAPHICS:

Logo

Hunam "Base"

PLOT:
(Chapter is just a quest arc, like the Umgah Caster in SC2).

First Chapter done

Second Chapter done

Third Chapter done

Fourth Chapter done

Misc Chapters done

SOUND:

VSTis for NSF style music in Fruity Loops

CODING:

None so far, but can code directional movement, etc, on Game Maker 6.

NEED TO DO:

GRAPHICS:

Other Race "Bases"

Enemies

Portraits

Title Screen Intro

Cinematics

PLOT:

Several tweaks and modifications

SOUND:

Midis for Conversion

Custom Music

Sound Effects

CODING:

Almost everything :(.


Of course, I want to get this off of the ground, hell I really want to get something like this done, as it'll help boost the reputation of SC...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on January 28, 2007, 02:08:47 am
Huh, this looks promising. Btw, if you're looking for some free chiptune music, try modarchive.com...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on January 28, 2007, 02:36:02 am
Heh, I know about ModArchive aswell as Chip-On, but I need schtuff that's in Star Control mindframe.

Also, here's the human base so far. It's Octo-Metric :D.

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9995/baseyf2.png)

[EDIT]

Well, this is a good reworking of the Yehat Theme, ALTHOUGH only string effects were added, it makes the music more epicish http://mywebpage.netscape.com/tonyvarinatv/yehat_with_strings.s3m...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: darkheart on January 28, 2007, 11:04:50 am
can I help???

it's been a WHILE since i've done real coding but i think i can get through
i can also work with html and photoshop


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on January 28, 2007, 01:51:53 pm
It would be great if you could help, but first thing first, we need to identify what engine we'll use. Game Maker is good for small projects, but makes files a lot larger than should be, and isn't exactly that powerful. That's one of the only ones I know that is suitable for this kind of thing :/.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on January 28, 2007, 07:56:57 pm
Woah woah woah. You're making a big strategy game with Game Maker?

No offence, but GM is kinda terrible for stuff like that. I'm not sure what else you could use, though...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on January 28, 2007, 08:33:45 pm
Didn't say that, I even said it was a no-no :/.



Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on January 28, 2007, 11:29:53 pm
Okay nevermind. I must've read your post wrong. >_>

Would you mind posting the plot? I'd like to read what you have so far.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: youBastrd on January 29, 2007, 12:15:00 am
For relatively small projects, good engines include Torque Game Builder (ie Torque 2D) and Flash.  Both are fairly quick to pick up. 

Torque is dirt cheap ($100/seat or so depending on the exact requirements of the license) plus you get all of its source.  There are a few books on the topic, although they focus on the 3D versions of Torque.  Documentation is relatively good, but in some cases you'll end up experimenting with the API just to figure out what things do.  You might also consider using an IDE for it called Torsion, some friends swear by it.  There is the potential of porting Torque games to XNA (Microsoft's watered-down version of DirectX) making it suitable for XBox Live. :)  There is also a pile of code for making web-downloadable versions of Torque games, but this is still experimental.  Hardware acceleration, fairly good API, fairly good built-in WYSIWYG interface, cheap licensing. 

Flash is fairly quick to pick up and crank out small games.  There are quite a few games made with it.  Obviously it's playable in a web browser straight out of the box.  Documentation is fairly good, there are many books and webpages on it.  The IDE is pretty expensive, though, I think the pro version is something like $800 US/seat.  For complex games, getting good performance can be very tricky.  There are lots and lots of tricks for optimising Flash games, and not all of them are as well documented as the basics. 

Other less likely candidates include: DarkBasic, Panda3D

Best of luck!


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on January 29, 2007, 06:48:50 pm
Thanks for the input! Also, about the plot, here goes...

Two years after the fall of the Sa-Matra, the Alliance are slowly winning the war. The Ur-Quan, desperate to achieve victory, begin releasing species from "Prison Planets" which have a black slave shield compared to the red. These races were deemed too "un-ethical" to become Battle Thralls, or even Slavers...

Meanwhile, the Alliance has had it's numbers greatly boosted. Thanks to the added strength of the newly freed forces of the Fjorn, who manage to break out of the shield by themselves, and a robotic sub-servant race called the Schen.

The Schen are the last survivors of a slave planet previously owned by the Ur-Quan. The original slave race died off as their plant-life could not adjust to photo-synthesis under the shield. However, their World A.I (Like a super computer, which controls the entire planet's systems) developed sentience under these conditions, and began to produce "fingers" for it's ambitions.

These droids were not entirely mindless however, as opertation as far as several thousand miles away from the A.I  did hamper the communications between both. As such the droids mostly acted in packs, to protect themselves against the wild elements now present on the planet.

The planet was liberated by the Syreen, and as such the Schen proclaimed loyalty to the Alliance no matter what; a reason to exist for them.

Yet, far in the corners of VUX space, experiments into things that should not happen go on, and soon, beings will *smell* their pressence...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: JonoPorter on January 29, 2007, 07:13:58 pm
XNA (Microsoft's watered-down version of DirectX)

What do you mean?


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on January 29, 2007, 09:11:23 pm
Sounds pretty good so far, the Schen seem like an interesting race. Oh, and I completely forgot about Torque! *smacks head* That would be perfect for what you're planning, if you could afford it.

Also, I'm assuming this will be an isometric game? (i.e. Final Fantasy Tactics, or X-Com)


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on January 29, 2007, 09:34:56 pm
In a certain sense, yesh. But, imagine it with 8 directions (octo), then you have Octo-Metric :D.

But yeah, until I get some serious bad-ass and hard-core coders on the scene, all I can reeaaally do now is, well, graphics :/.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: darkheart on January 29, 2007, 09:37:18 pm
just dont make it look like SC3 Hyper-Melee

and what coders are they?


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on January 29, 2007, 10:51:39 pm
People like Geomancer, YouB*strd, And others I've yet to encounter XD.

Well, here's the most recent base so far, what we really need at this moment is an engine, I don't have enough money for that Torque, but I do have Flash. Maybe we could do a port of Super Melee to flash first, to get to grips with it? Or maybe we should just skip flash in it's entirety and find something else :/.

(http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/3474/baseyy7.png)


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on January 30, 2007, 03:40:28 am
Nice. That base could probably be used tor most of the humaniod races, but some of the weirder ones (i.e., the 'Quans) would have to be made from scratch, I imagine.

IMO, you should try to get Torque if you're really serious about this. There's a demo you can try if you want to see what it can do first...

(barring that, go with flash, but from what I've heard it would be pretty hard to code a game like this in Flash)


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on January 31, 2007, 08:33:11 pm
Done bits and bobs graphics wise, will upload them soon! :D

[EDIT]

Here's a roll of the characters done/working on now.

(http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/8477/imporatantcharacterssofln0.png)


LEFT : Commander Zen

Commander Zen is a Male Syreen (gasp!) who is in-charge of the Star Control Special Ops (that's your group). He fills the roll of stereo-typical angry commander, but mainly to remove the cliche that most Syreen Males are effeminate. He'll act as the Commander Hayes of the game, along with some others.

MIDDLE : Fwiffo

After Fwiffo returned triumphantly to his beloved Spathiwa, he was hailed a Hero, and Living Legend of his time. His adept flight skills, his uncanny luck and suprising courage against the odds (for a Spathi anyway) has spawned him a life-time of creating movies, documentaries, everything. The Spathi can't get enough of him. He is drafted back into the Military, more confident in his own abilities (so much now that he'll actually fly of his own accord, that's if he knows he has a high chance of not getting killed that is) and tactical knowladge means that he is a valued unit in the Allied Forces.

RIGHT : Not to be Disclosed at this moment

Survivor of a ferocious attack, joins the Alliance as it is his last option. The Ur-Quan don't care for him, the majority of his race disgusted by him, the only ones willing to even listen to his plea are the races of the Alliance. He may prove to be a valuable resource...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 01, 2007, 10:29:30 pm
*BUMP* So erm, loss of interest already?


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Ludka on February 02, 2007, 03:00:45 pm
No loss of interest.  I'm still immensly interested.  In fact, I like the three characters you have there. 

As I have no programming knowledge, I'll just say "cool", and go back to my corner now.

Cool.

*goes to corner*


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Holocat on February 02, 2007, 08:22:54 pm
have you considered python's GUI toolkits for use in this?  I ask tentatively because i'm not entirely certain what the primary game mechanic is.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: steveZ1337 on February 04, 2007, 05:01:54 am
I am interested in creating our own full blown sequel to the SC2 project using the UQM engine. You story looks like it could work in this respect. What do you think? PS. I am a coder :P


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: steveZ1337 on February 04, 2007, 05:03:47 am
Also I want to gameplay to be the same as the UQM series maybe some slight improvements. I just want to avoid that whole tactics thing because I really hated Fallout Tactics.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 04, 2007, 09:54:46 pm
Eh, I want to make a strictly UQM style sequel too, so I gues I'm in! :D. I can help with graphics, like ships, captains, etc. Do you have any forums up yet?


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: steveZ1337 on February 04, 2007, 10:25:02 pm
No, I just decided that I want to use this as my final project for Software Engineering. It's good we want the same thing :) I actually dont want much to do with the story / graphics (other than maybe upgrading it to a SVGA standard). Also I want to make sure we follow the canon as to not alienate the possible fan base. I am mainly interested in the coding. I spent yesterday setting up my own subversion repository and linux server box. Anyways my email is stevenlzimmer@gmail.com and I have msn messenger so if you want you can contact me that way. The online web tools i'm going to use for this project are phpBB, tikiwki, Bugzilla, and SVN.

Thanks,
   Steve


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 04, 2007, 10:29:58 pm
Added to MSN, deborah@debsonair.fsnet.co.uk is our family e-mail address.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Ludka on February 12, 2007, 01:51:49 pm
So, how are these projects coming?


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 12, 2007, 05:55:48 pm
Steve's gone AWOL for some reason, and I haven't had any time to actually work on this. I also need some coders for this to ever kick start off the ground :(.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: xenoclone on February 12, 2007, 09:56:26 pm
I'd also recommend using Torque Game Builder. I've had it almost a year making an SC-style game and it's been excellent.

I also once wrote a melee-clone in Flash 4. Took me about a week. I'm sure Flash MX doesn't have as many limitations, but I've found Torque is a little better for games development.



Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Holocat on February 13, 2007, 01:56:24 am
Regardless of what sort of codebase you choose, I would suggest that you post your plan;  It's going to be similar to UQM, but how?  How different? 

For instance, I have NO idea what all these... err, 'people' sprites are supposed to do;  There was no 'person walking around' part in SC2/UQM.  Is there going to be a party based RPG element added?

Until the most basic of game mechanic designs are done and posted, it's very hard to say what would be required to make it, or if it could be made with current skills at all.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 13, 2007, 03:42:14 am
In a certain sense, it's elaborating more on the RPG aspects of UQM.

The plan is that when you first arive at Star Control, you have to dock with it, on doing so you enter an RPG stylized system where you can wander around and talk to NPCs. By learning Key Phrases, you can ask minor NPCs about details on what you should do, and if they might have a side quest related to that piece of information...

Now, making your way to the Confrence Room, (there may be a cinematic when you first walk in) you get to talk to the Commander there. He'll inform you of what your objective is, and that you won't be going alone, this is where 5 other members tag along with you, and equipment is handed out acordingly.

Now, to stay against the Patience vs. Skill thing that goes on in a lot of RPGs, the Characters wouldn't level. Instead, they get certain specialties when compared to others. The RPG battle system, like said before, is a turn based Tactical RPG system. Weapons have a Low and a Maximum value, damage being a random number between thoose two (For instance, Blaster may have 5-10 damage) if obtaining a 10, the player has scored a "Critical" and attacks again for extra damage. This doesn't stack again, unless stated otherwise.

Another thing against the normal flow of RPGs is that there are 2 types of HP for each unit. Physical and Mental Health. These are different to each other, and equaly important.

Say if Phyiscal HP goes down to 0, the unit collapses under the stress of it all. With the right item, you can bring that unit back into play, and as such continue the battle.

Now with Mental HP, this is affected by special skills, or certain circumstances. If Mental HP is low enough, you can succumb to Madness, or Mind Slavery, which can seriously hamper your battle. If it reaches 0, the unit undergoes a Nervous Breakdown, and will need an item to replenish his state.

There are Armours that can be equiped too, these act as extra HP for your other HP bars. So if an enemy attacks you with a Physical attack, it will damage this armour instead of your Health, but fair warning, once the armour hits 0, it can't be used at all until it is repaired or replaced.

For instance, Utwigs will gain an extra tile in ranged weapons with some defensive ESP, whereas Yehat will improve in melee combat overall, and can fly on certain planets.

Flight is a unique ability, which is based off of a luck roll. If succesful, the unit is able to fly for 3 turns, making it immune to some attacks the enemy has to throw at it. The first turn ends the unit's go, and the other two are free for the unit to move around and attack on. Once over, the unit returns to the ground, and can not fly until 2 turns later.
The Yehat and Pkunk need to be on a planet with less than 0.8 of Earth's Gravity, otherwise they can not fly unless they have an item which improves their flight. In reality, a human sized creatrue couldn't fly on our planet, so something that's 3 metres (although a little gangly) would struggle to walk on Earth, let alone fly.

Pkunk are really the only race to get offensive ESP and can fly on certain planets, Syreen obtain some curative ESP and healing items are improved, and Humans obtain defensive variants,like say resistance to negative effects, and a high amount of M HP.

Humans are unique in the fact that their race is specially suited in the protection against ESP attacks and the likes, this may be down to Arilou tampering, but this grants the Humans an overall boost in importance to the party.

In contrast, other races such as the Fjorn, do not get any ESP skills. Instead, the Fjorn gain a P HP bonus, and are able to inflict more low damage overall (so the weapons have a lower chance of hitting a low amount).

The various other races have different abilites, such as the Supox, who can replenish P HP during battle, and have an ability that pins an enemy to a certain spot for that turn, useful if the Supox can't deal enough damage to kill it.

Of course, enough of the Character Stats, now we need to go over other things...

On the Star Control base, and various other locations in the universe, are Melnorme Trade Bots.

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4809/melnormebotprevdz0.png)

These things are like Vending Machines on legs, they'll offer you Credits or Resource Units (can't decide which) in exchange for Biological Data (gathered like gold when defeating enemies) or certain "Items" found in locations. Melnorme most likely "marketed" them as being cute friends on the battle field.
Top row is opening itself for use, bottom left is if you buy something expensive, sell for a lot of Credits, or something happens along thoose lines. The bottom right is just it jigging when it has no interaction with the player for a while.

Back to the battle system, on each turn, the player gets to move his units (each has a certain amount of Move points) and then does an action at the end. These actions include Dfend (deducts a certain amount of damage from an enemy attack, can be increased by some items), Atack (speaks for itself), ESP (only in some cases, acts as "magic"), Flight (if able to), Item and Scan. Scan provides information on the enemy, but only a certain amount of it. some items will scan into further detail, but have an "expiration time" that the Melnorme installed into many of it's items (self destruct system, damn Capitalists! >: D).

On completing a turn, the enemy force proceeds to attack, and at the end of their attack, it's your turn, etc. Once you win, you gain items and such. The battle field size does vary, but will never span the whole map you were previously on (this is what makes a fair amount of Tactics RPGs slightly dull, navigating to your enemy).



Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Valaggar on February 13, 2007, 02:20:57 pm
Interesting, but I'd like more a game with the UQM engine - the same gameplay features, only a new plot and races and expand the map etc.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 13, 2007, 02:44:48 pm
Heh, I didn't say I was going to completely remove the Ship Battles, but like the other SC games, they branch off into other genres aswell (SC1 was a Chess like game, SC2 was a more RPGified situation, SCn3 had a colony system...)


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Draxas on February 13, 2007, 05:49:03 pm
Here comes 2 cents from someone who has no intention of getting involved beyond the "idea generation and criticism" phase. ;)

I think most of my criticims come in the form of your proposed ESP powers. Quite a lot of SC races show a propensity toward using ESP-style powers (or at least abilities that would resemble "magic" from a standard fantasy-setting game of this type). You seem to be overlooking these, and misapplying several of the ones you mentioned.

Races (considering background materials, dialog, and combat in SC1 & SC2 only) that possess ESP-type powers:

Pkunk (Clairvoyance, future-sight, reincarnation)
Chenjesu / presumably Chmmr (Manipulation of electricity and electrical fields)
Orz (Remote attack and/or assimilation (events on Androsynth homeworld))
Syreen (Mental domination)
Mycon (Instantaneous reproduction, instantaneous genetic mutation, regeneration)
Utwig (Future-sight (with Ultron))
Arilou (Telepathy, telekinesis (presumably, in both cases))
Dnyarri (Mental domination)
Ur-Quan / Kohr-Ah (Psychic resistance (with excruciators))
Taalo (Psychic resistance)

None of the other races show any evidence of having any psychic powers. And while the game mentions several psychically sensitive humans, they don't seem to possess any of the benefits of this trait, and simply pass out or get headaches at random times.

What am I getting at? For starters, you seem to have the roles of the Pkunk and Syreen reversed as it pertains to ESP; the Syreen have shown no aptitude towards healing, and the Pkunk are generally not inclined to use the powers they have in an agressive fashion.

On to other things... I've played many a tactical RPG, and while I realize most of them use a system where each force alternates turns, I really hate this system. Much more interesting is a system similar to the one in Final Fantasy Tactics, where each individual character on both sides has a speed score, and higher speed causes their turns to come up more frequently. This could be an effective way to make some of your seemingly less useful allies have some benefit; the example that springs to my mind would be the ZFP (they may not be particularly strong or tough, but they are quick little guys).

While it may be tempting to make the battle maps small to foce combatants to come to grips more quickly, it could also seriously hamper certain units. The same goes for a map that's too large, mind you... However, I can't imagine what the utility of melee fighters would be in a universe where hi-tech guns would likely be the norm for combat. Remember, he who lives by the sword, gets shot by someone who doesn't. In order to justify the existence of someone who only fights at close range, they would need to be fast, move long distances in each turn, and hit hard enough to justify using them instead of using someone else with a gun. Couple that with small enough battle maps, and those melee fighters are starting to look pretty broken.

On a somewhat related note, I can't imagine why flight would have the utility you describe. How hard is it to shoot something that's airborne? Probably easier than hitting the same target while it's taking cover on the ground.

Overall, though, it's an interesting concept. If you can get this to play out something like the X-Com games, but in an SC universe, I'd probably have to declare it a success even if you ignore everything I've said above. ;)


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 13, 2007, 06:49:41 pm
Here comes 2 cents from someone who has no intention of getting involved beyond the "idea generation and criticism" phase. ;)

I think most of my criticims come in the form of your proposed ESP powers. Quite a lot of SC races show a propensity toward using ESP-style powers (or at least abilities that would resemble "magic" from a standard fantasy-setting game of this type). You seem to be overlooking these, and misapplying several of the ones you mentioned.

Races (considering background materials, dialog, and combat in SC1 & SC2 only) that possess ESP-type powers:

Pkunk - The Pkunk character is against the typical flow of Pkunk.
Chenjesu / presumably Chmmr - Unplayable
Orz - Unplayable
Syreen - "Placebo" effect (which might have negative effects at the end of battle), but you have a point. Maybe some offensive ESP for theese...
Mycon - Unplayable
Utwig - Defensive includes a more in-depth statistics reading of enemies, etc.
Arilou - Unplayable
Dnyarri - Unplayable
Ur-Quan / Kohr-Ah - Unplayable
Taalo - Unplayable
Human - Arilou tampering and it's only actually one Human, the player himself/herself.

Ranged vs. Melee - Some enemies have Electro Fields which improve defence against ranged attacks, others have flesh under armour which would need some phyisical movement to get to. Weapons also sometimes have ammo.

Might use the Speed Score system, good suggestion :D.

Flight - Flying also makes you recieve heavier damage if your hit full pelt with a physical attack, meaning you end up hurtling towards the ground leaving a yehat/pkunk shaped crater in the ground. There's also the whole flaping of wings which makes steady co-ordination that bit harder.


Thanks for the suggestions dude! Keep it going :D.

[EDIT]

Suprised no one has said anything about the Melnorme Bots :/...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Draxas on February 13, 2007, 08:03:05 pm
Pkunk - The Pkunk character is against the typical flow of Pkunk.
Chenjesu / presumably Chmmr - Unplayable
Orz - Unplayable
Syreen - "Placebo" effect (which might have negative effects at the end of battle), but you have a point. Maybe some offensive ESP for theese...
Mycon - Unplayable
Utwig - Defensive includes a more in-depth statistics reading of enemies, etc.
Arilou - Unplayable
Dnyarri - Unplayable
Ur-Quan / Kohr-Ah - Unplayable
Taalo - Unplayable
Human - Arilou tampering and it's only actually one Human, the player himself/herself.

Despite these characters being playable or not, you're still going to need enemies to fight. While I realize you're trying to place emphasis on new races, it would be very unlikely that some old foes wouldn't return for repeat engagements.

A Pkunk going against the normal flow of the Pkunk... is a Yehat, really. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to give them offensive Psi abilities. It would likely be simpler all around to just swap the roles you have planned for the Syreen and Pkunk, especially since a Syreen healer only brings to mind memories of that mutated blue thing they called a Syreen in SCn3.

Now that you say that units in flight can be shot out of the sky, it seems even less likely that this is going to be a useful ability. Once again, why fly over the battlefield and make yourself an easy target, when you could simply advance under cover on the ground?

As far as Melnorme vend-o-bots go, I think it seems like a reasonable idea to have them available on starbases. After all, the Melnorme themselves are busy doing whatever research they do at Supergiant stars, but now that the Ur-Quan are no longer a threat, I imagine they would probably want to reestablish an extensive trading network like the one they presumably had before the first war started. On the other hand, I see no reason why all your trading should be done with the Melnorme; no doubt the locals would have their own equipment and artifacts that would be of interest. I see the vend-o-bots as simply taking the place of their masters; they should deal in exotic technologies, difficult to procure information, and universal commodoties (ie. fuel, ammo, etc.) in exchange for credits. Credits can be acquired through whatever means you see fit (I imagine they might be more interested in different things than they were in SC2; how much biological info do they really need? Similarly, I imagine they would know where all the rainbow worlds are by now). In contrast, local starbase merchants could sell all manner of different things: artifacts, racial weapons and other technologies, starship designs, etc. etc. etc. At least in the case of the starbase around Earth, I imagine they would probably want RU; how you intend to work that out is up to you. Other aliens might want RU, or perhaps something completely different (the Druuge spring to mind immediately, though it's questionable whether they would be willing to make deals with you at all).


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 13, 2007, 08:25:47 pm

Despite these characters being playable or not, you're still going to need enemies to fight. While I realize you're trying to place emphasis on new races, it would be very unlikely that some old foes wouldn't return for repeat engagements.

True, true, but they'll most likely have skills specialized to themselves, maybe some might be learnable, others might not.

A Pkunk going against the normal flow of the Pkunk... is a Yehat, really. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to give them offensive Psi abilities. It would likely be simpler all around to just swap the roles you have planned for the Syreen and Pkunk, especially since a Syreen healer only brings to mind memories of that mutated blue thing they called a Syreen in SCn3.

Again, a fair point, the thing is, a Pkunk against the normal cliche isn't exactly a Yehat, this Pkunk has a very high PSI rating compared to others, and is slightly anarchistic (In the sense that he thinks he's the only sane Pkunk there, despite the love he feels from his brothers, he doesn't feel like he fits in, nor do the Warrior-like Yehats appeal to him much.)

Now that you say that units in flight can be shot out of the sky, it seems even less likely that this is going to be a useful ability. Once again, why fly over the battlefield and make yourself an easy target, when you could simply advance under cover on the ground?

Naturally certain enemies can't hit you in the air, and there may be impassable terrains and as such, you might need this ability to attack the enemies weak point (for massive damage) and finish the battle. Another advantage is that the unit has an added boost to movement, which helps when trying to run from a formidable enemy.

As far as Melnorme vend-o-bots go, I think it seems like a reasonable idea to have them available on starbases. After all, the Melnorme themselves are busy doing whatever research they do at Supergiant stars, but now that the Ur-Quan are no longer a threat, I imagine they would probably want to reestablish an extensive trading network like the one they presumably had before the first war started.

 On the other hand, I see no reason why all your trading should be done with the Melnorme; no doubt the locals would have their own equipment and artifacts that would be of interest.

Somehow, I think it fits. The Melnorme are hardly going to sell wares to the Ur-Quan, and in this the Druuge sign a Contract with the Ur-Quan, which in a sense makes them Battle Thralls for Hire.

Also, the Command itself is almost always way too busy to sell weapons and such to units, and the fact that the Melnorme have "invested interests" in their actions, and their technological prowess, means that they are an ideal merchant.


I see the vend-o-bots as simply taking the place of their masters; they should deal in exotic technologies, difficult to procure information, and universal commodoties (ie. fuel, ammo, etc.) in exchange for credits.

Exactly, standard Blasters from the Star Control base won't exactly cut it against a collosus Ur-Quan, or tackle a Mycon. by having the Melnorme as the Merchants, all this extra special weapons that you get again and again seems to fit more logically, your hardly going to have a new weapon being sold at the Base each and every time you complete a mission, as they may all relly on the same kind of Tech, but Melnorme's Technology is un-stated and therefore unchallanged.

 Credits can be acquired through whatever means you see fit (I imagine they might be more interested in different things than they were in SC2; how much biological info do they really need? Similarly, I imagine they would know where all the rainbow worlds are by now).

Yesh, but that doesn't mean there aren't any Precursor "Widgets" that they might be interested in. Good suggestion about the data, maybe there can be sub classes to it (Mechanical, Biological, Cultural, etc) and they may have different demands about them.

In contrast, local starbase merchants could sell all manner of different things: artifacts, racial weapons and other technologies, starship designs, etc. etc. etc. At least in the case of the starbase around Earth, I imagine they would probably want RU; how you intend to work that out is up to you.

True, but the squad that you command is a "Secret Service" which is why you get to speak to the heads of the Operation in person. Of course, your actions are so secret, that you can't tell many people about it, and if you die, you will be denied of any existance.

Other aliens might want RU, or perhaps something completely different (the Druuge spring to mind immediately, though it's questionable whether they would be willing to make deals with you at all).

A valid point, but the Operatives of Star Control provide you with the necessary currencies needed to complete the various missions, kind of like the way the FBI offers Euros, Yen, etc for it's agents when abroad.


Yay :D.

Anyone else have any more suggestions? The more feed back, the better :D.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: countchocula86 on February 13, 2007, 11:00:26 pm
I'm still a little confused. So is the game like an RPG where you just walk around and amass a party, go into battles, etc?


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 13, 2007, 11:21:55 pm
Yeppers, but it still retains the Ship to Ship system that makes Star Control :D.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: countchocula86 on February 14, 2007, 12:20:57 am
I guess thats the bit that confuses me, how are the ships integrated into the general game, and/or into the combat? Or is it like the ships ferry you from planet to planet, and then you and your party deal with whatever situation that occurs there?


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 14, 2007, 12:23:58 am
Hmm, idea.

Perhaps you could add boarding to the ship-to-ship battles? For example, if you weaken an enemy ship (say, to below 20% of its crew), you could bump into it and start a boarding battle, where your crew fights for control of the ship. (naturally, if you lost crew during the ship fight, you would have less people during the boarding party)

If you eliminate all the enemy crew, the ship would become yours and you could use/sell it.

Another suggestion: Replace M HP with Stamina or something, and replace Psi powers with Techniques. That way, you could also include non-mental abilties, like Mycon mutation, Umgah gene-tinkering (maybe you could heal people that way), and stuff like that.

BTW, I am right in assuming Psi powers lower your M HP when you use them?

Finally, I like how the vending-bots do a little happy dance when you buy something expensive. XD


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 14, 2007, 12:39:07 am
Hmm, idea.

Perhaps you could add boarding to the ship-to-ship battles? For example, if you weaken an enemy ship (say, to below 20% of its crew), you could bump into it and start a boarding battle, where your crew fights for control of the ship. (naturally, if you lost crew during the ship fight, you would have less people during the boarding party) 

Nice idea! Didn't think of it like that, could be a good add-on.

If you eliminate all the enemy crew, the ship would become yours and you could use/sell it.

Another suggestion: Replace M HP with Stamina or something, and replace Psi powers with Techniques. That way, you could also include non-mental abilties, like Mycon mutation, Umgah gene-tinkering (maybe you could heal people that way), and stuff like that.

Naw, I don't see that, considering this group of  "Spies" are the "Elite" so there are going to be some ESPers. Also, Umgah and Mycon certainly aren't playable.

BTW, I am right in assuming Psi powers lower your M HP when you use them?

Yeppers, right on dude.

Finally, I like how the vending-bots do a little happy dance when you buy something expensive. XD

Thanks, I thought it might be too "Anime" for the hard-core fans of Star Control...

Aaaaanything else? I also encourage thoose who would like to help, please, please post with your skills, the more help, the merrier :D.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 14, 2007, 12:56:41 am
Quote from: Neonlare
Also, Umgah and Mycon certainly aren't playable.


Even if they aren't playable, they may be enemies, y'know.  ;) Just throwin' out ideas.


Also, frankly, most of the people here are just fans, not programmers/designers. :P  I might be able to help with writing or sprites if I get the chance, though.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Draxas on February 14, 2007, 07:43:38 pm
Aaaaanything else? I also encourage thoose who would like to help, please, please post with your skills, the more help, the merrier :D.

As stated, I'm not likely to move past the "idea generation and criticism" phase. I have scant little programming skill, and artistic skill to match... I suppose I'm a passable writer, and could help work on a script, but I imagine almost anyone here could do the same.

What I am good at, however, is being a fount of endless (and often useless) ideas. This is why few of my own projects ever make it past the "idea generation and criticism" phase. ;D

As for how ship-to-ship vs. on-foot tactical combat should work, here's my 2 bits:

Ship-to-ship would take place in all standard engagements from SC2: Encounters in orbit, solar systems, and Hyperspace should all be resolved with standard melee-style combat (assuming diplomacy fails, anyway). On the other hand, any sort of planetary landing action, boarding hostile craft, or infiltrating enemy starbases and planetary facilities would be handled using the tactical system. I suppose, in essence, that this would essentially eliminate the lander minigame.

While I do think boarding actions are a great idea, I also think they should be very limited so they don't completely bog down the game. I think only the last ship in any given battlegroup should be vulnerable to boarding actions (otherwise their wingmen would destroy the enemy ship while it was docked). Also, boarding actions really shouldn't apply to certain ships; for example, attempting to board a Mycon vessel would likely be an exceedingly fatal experience for the boarders (what with the temperature being maintained at the melting point of lead and all), no boarding party would be insane enough to try to dock with a Shofiti Scout, etc.

Another issue relating to boarding parties is the concept of the required native captain; you might be able to capture an alien ship with little trouble, but when it comes to flying it, only a native of a given race will work. This means that you would probably end up selling most of your captured ships for scrap or breaking them down for their component technologies at the nearest starbase, since you likely won't have a native pilot in your crew. To this end, you're going to need a large "tug" ship in your fleet, similar to the Precursor vessel in SC2 (though that obviously doesn't exist anymore, nor is it possible to make more), to move around disabled ships. This may be something you would have to build yourself or procure during your mission, or you could just hand it to the player at the beginning, but either way it's necessary to move around your salvage without breaking it down into bite-size chunks. Of course, in relation to the next paragraph, the native captain issue might be somewhat mitigated.

It occurs to me that many of the races you claim as "unplayable" probably shouldn't be; it would be wise to create a comprehensive skillset for all "typical" members of a given race, and to differentiate special characters later. After all, you can potentially recruit members of nearly every spacefaring race (save the lone Ur-Quan that command their ships, and Slylandro probe-bots) using the Syreen special weapon. This opens up a lot of interesting possibilities, not least of which would be the ability to select boarding parties or insertion teams from your available crewmen of various races, choosing those that would be optimized to fight in a given environment.

Given that there is a good chance that you would be able to use team members from a wide variety of races (or that you would at least fight against them), I second the idea that special techniques should not all be based on psi powers.

I can't imagine why the Druuge, let alone anyone else, would want to have dealings with the Ur-Quan at all after the enslaving, extermination, and wars that they have been at the core of. The Druuge especially only escaped destruction at the hands (claws? tentacles?) of the Kohr-Ah, because of the timely detection of their rivals, and they know it. Besides, I don't think the Druuge would enter into negotiations with any race that they didn't feel they could take advantage of, and the Ur-Quan certainly don't seem gullible, nor desperate enough to accept aid from outsiders that are not enslaved to them.

Nobody said that the commander of a given starbase would be dealing in equipment. I imagine that the Earth starbase would probably have been converted to a somewhat more peacetime-oriented facility (sort of on the order of Deep Space 9: dedicated mostly to peacetime activities, but ready for trouble if the need to fight arises). As such, there would probably be various officers ready and willing to make trades in various capacities: A Materials Procurement officer who would convert raw materials into RU (or whatever currency), a Quartermaster who would issue military equipment and other supplies as need arises, and probably civilian merchants who would be willing to trade for goods that would be difficult or impossible to procure from official channels. This in addition to the services provided by the Melnorme could provide quite a lot of variety in what is on offer at any given location. Other races would likely maintain similar facilities, though with different needs and goods available for trade. Especially with the "secret service" nature of the protagonists that you mentioned, you probably should not be expecting official support from too many of the various racial commanders, but instead would have to deal with the locals in order blend in while procuring the equipment you would need to help complete your mission.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 14, 2007, 08:17:35 pm
Quote
As stated, I'm not likely to move past the "idea generation and criticism" phase. I have scant little programming skill, and artistic skill to match... I suppose I'm a passable writer, and could help work on a script, but I imagine almost anyone here could do the same.

What I am good at, however, is being a fount of endless (and often useless) ideas. This is why few of my own projects ever make it past the "idea generation and criticism" phase.
Lawl, same here.

Some more speculation/ideas:

Perhaps having certain racial crew on your ships could help them in melee? For example, having a Pkunk on-board would give you the ability to generate psychic shields, or a very low chance of ressurecting, or something.

Who says you won't be able to recruit Mycon and Ur-Quan and the like other than hypnotizing them? Maybe a 'Quan will join your side for story reasons, or something...

Speaking of 'Quans, I'm not sure how they would work in a fight. Since we usually see them hanging from starship, I imagine in a fight they'd just flop around like slugs.... XD Instead of fighting , I suggest giving them special "Leadership" abilities, that you could "cast" on your other fighters to give them a temporary bonus to their stats. Of course, they'd have low move and attack to make up for it.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 14, 2007, 08:50:26 pm
Mmmm, I thought when the Syreen Ship used it's psi-abilities, it shoot out all the alien crew due to the fact it couldn't support them for long...

Ur-Quan would most likely be a huge boss fight, taking up most of the battle field, I'm hoping of having the first fight with one only revealing the front of the Ur-Quan, and any other encounters to have the full section/ They'd pummel you hard too...

No special abilities for alien crew on a ship, it's just not Melee, and it can seriously unbalance the system...

Like I've said before, the loss of the Sa-Matra, the Revolution of the Yehat, the Aparant Extinction of the Thraddash and Illwrath, and the Fjorn and Scheen joining forces with the Alliance have seriously crippled the Ur-Quan, bashing them backwards, against what would normally be expected, they actually need help. That's when the Druuge seize their opportunity. They did this, mainly because the Ur-Quan were expanding into their space, and if you can't beat them, join em. Or rather, get them pinned into an agreement. The Ur-Quan couldn't care much for it, because they need to win the war, then they'll start focusing on slaving again.

I might add a "Tactics" section for the non Psi races, but the Psi have to be unique otherwise there's really no point of them being there.

Like said, secret organization, you can't go willy nilly asking for weapons from stores without getting looks. Your not seen as "part of the military" who get standard equipment. Infact, like said before, they'll deny your existance is something goes horridly wrong.

Boarding of ships will most likely be in only special circumstances, like "Boss" ships and such forth. Boarding a small ship like the VUX Intruder doesn't seem useful, and especially when you can't pilot it.

No tug boating empty vessels, but the main ship will be upgradable.

Okay, here's some music I've selected that I think would suite the game so far, credit goes to the appropiate artists work!

http://www.savefile.com/files/491768

(The ones with numbers next to them means I'm not entirely sure about them, I'm quite set on Fjorn 2 though :D.)


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: evktalo on February 14, 2007, 11:30:33 pm
Nice tiny character graphics, me likey!


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Holocat on February 15, 2007, 08:04:32 am
Um, slow down please? :3

Okay, so we have a game that requires:

-Melee (navigating to other systems/planets is handled in SC1 fashion, SC2 fashion? some other fashion?)

-16 bit RPG style walking around as a 'party' with the following things:
  -Conversation, interactive Conversation
  -Some sort of shop screen thing.
  -Inventory (is this a minigame system like diablo's inventory tetris or just a list?)
  -tactical combat (like shining force, taking place on the same map you walk around in)
  -The view is standard partial overhead (grid squares, rather than 3-quarter perspective diamonds, correct?)

Questions:

Can you post an interior map?  Any interior map that is to scale with whatever sprites you wish to use.  If the sprites you posted are not the correct size repost those too.  I only need one.

I assume parts of the map itself animate, like screens and blinking lights and scifi stuff like that.

I thought Ur-Quan were predators (meaning not so low attack) and 8 meters long (so taking up one end of the screen?  That's a rather big 'Quan.)

What happens other than combat?  Are their items on the ground that can be picked up (as opposed to handed to you by the narrator at the end of combat)?  Are they in other objects(containers)?  Can you put items INTO containers or does everything go, one-way, into the inventory FF style?  Are their switches, such as doors that open and close, or levers that do things?

When can combat occur?  Can it occur during other things, such as talking, or only during the beginning of a 'level' like shining force's usual padigram of talk-fight-wander-next level?

Can combat and non-combat things happen at the same time, such as purchacing from a trader/bot during combat 'turn'?


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Censored on February 15, 2007, 09:25:03 am
If you really want a coding challenge, make it so the map is generated randomly (there are a number of main 'rooms', or areas, and they are connected differently each game). Just like Diablo 1/2 - that feature really made the game lasting and fun.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 15, 2007, 02:18:15 pm
-No maps done so far, currently in the Ideas and Suggestions stage, with some of the Storyline arcs being made.

-Yeshum, screens, machinery, so on...

-Exactly, so they're really great boss material.

-Not sure about the Tetris mini game, I think we'd best stick to the FF style inventory...

-Combat's not like Shining Force, it's not whenever you enter a map. Instead, it takes place at random (over a certain value, obviously, otherwise the game would get repetitive) or at certain key points of the story.

-Not sure about that, but it's not a bad idea...

-Random maps would most likely only work on the cliche "Desert" maps where you have to find a path to follow, anything else and it wouldn't make sense (why would a dungeon change the second time you've walked into it?)

Thanks for the suggestions and questions guys! :D.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Valaggar on February 15, 2007, 05:01:17 pm
You can save a map that has been already visited in the savegame file, so that when you go there the second time you are on the same map. (so the game generates a single random map for each map for the entire game)
But some maps would certainly have to be human-designed, so that they look better - not only quest maps, also some secondary maps, for flavor.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Draxas on February 16, 2007, 05:33:49 pm
Mmmm, I thought when the Syreen Ship used it's psi-abilities, it shoot out all the alien crew due to the fact it couldn't support them for long...

This has been changed recently in UQM. Besides, the game illogically capped crew at 12 outside of battle before (so if you had 10 at the start, and stole 4, I guess 2 would have to draw straws to see who gets kicked out of the airlock; the other 2 can stay), and in SC1, invading an enemy colony with a Penetrator instantly granted it maximum crew since they could hypnotize anyone they wanted without resistance before destroying the rest. So it seems that the Syreen's ability is "selectively permanent" according to gameplay rules, and I suspect it was meant to be completely permanent, but someone unintentionally bugged the crew code in SC2 (which is why it was changed in the main UQM release).

Quote
Ur-Quan would most likely be a huge boss fight, taking up most of the battle field, I'm hoping of having the first fight with one only revealing the front of the Ur-Quan, and any other encounters to have the full section/ They'd pummel you hard too...

Quote
I thought Ur-Quan were predators (meaning not so low attack) and 8 meters long (so taking up one end of the screen?  That's a rather big 'Quan.)

Ur-Quan are roughly that size, on average. That's approximately 25 feet long, which means they're the length of 3 humans. While that is pretty big, it's not "can't see the whole boss" big. I could see them taking up a larger than normal portion of the tactical grid (2-4 squares, depending on how you want to scale them and how you interpret the Ur-Quan's girth), but certainly not half a battle map.

Quote
Like I've said before, the loss of the Sa-Matra, the Revolution of the Yehat, the Aparant Extinction of the Thraddash and Illwrath, and the Fjorn and Scheen joining forces with the Alliance have seriously crippled the Ur-Quan, bashing them backwards, against what would normally be expected, they actually need help. That's when the Druuge seize their opportunity. They did this, mainly because the Ur-Quan were expanding into their space, and if you can't beat them, join em. Or rather, get them pinned into an agreement. The Ur-Quan couldn't care much for it, because they need to win the war, then they'll start focusing on slaving again.

The Ur-Quan seem too proud to ask for help, and the Druuge too slimy to give it; they seem more likely to strike at the Ur-Quan's rear when the don't suspect it, so that they can endear themselves to the side that seems most likely to win. After all, there's no use in trying to have good relations with a species that's made enemies of everyone else in the galaxy, and should they win their war somehow, is quite likely to turn around and enslave or obliterate their allies.

This also doesn't consider the Kohr-Ah at all, who would likely try to exterminate any non-Ur-Quan in their path as they retreated. Even if the Kzer-Za were willing to attempt to negotiate a desperate alliance with the Druuge, the Kohr-Ah would simply try to eliminate as much of their race as possible as they passed through. And the Kzer-Za most certainly wouldn't fight their bretheren over a race that's nothing more than another batch of slaves; they don't have the time, resources, or motivation to start yet another doctrinal war, especially since they knew the Kohr-Ah were winning (or won, depending on the timeframe) the last one before the Sa-Matra went up in flames.

Quote
I might add a "Tactics" section for the non Psi races, but the Psi have to be unique otherwise there's really no point of them being there.

Why is that? Lots of races seem to have powers or abilities that are roughly analagous. Both the Pkunk and Utwig can see the future, for example.

Quote
Like said, secret organization, you can't go willy nilly asking for weapons from stores without getting looks. Your not seen as "part of the military" who get standard equipment. Infact, like said before, they'll deny your existance is something goes horridly wrong.

The universe is a dangerous place, where the weak eat red-hot flaming death! Or something to that effect, I forget the exact quote.

Point being, even civilian craft need to be armed and ready for battle or boarding; there are plenty of races just itching for a fight or eager to engage in piracy (the VUX fit both bills quite nicely). I imagine most races have a bustling arms trade, and most of your allies (and humanity itself, no doubt) are not likely to be exceptions. Now, there's no guarantee you will be able to procure the most technologically advanced military hardware through these channels (though I'm sure some races have few or no qualms about providing said hardware, for the right price, to say nothing of black markets or more illicit traders), but I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't exist at all.

Quote
Boarding of ships will most likely be in only special circumstances, like "Boss" ships and such forth. Boarding a small ship like the VUX Intruder doesn't seem useful, and especially when you can't pilot it.

No tug boating empty vessels, but the main ship will be upgradable.

Taken together, these two make some sense. Still, salvage is fun, and you could always rip apart the intact vessels if you can't fly them (at a shipyard, of course, thus the necessity of having towing capability). How about attaching that Intruder's laser module to the flagship? Or perhaps, some other race wants technology samples for study...

Quote
Combat's not like Shining Force, it's not whenever you enter a map. Instead, it takes place at random (over a certain value, obviously, otherwise the game would get repetitive) or at certain key points of the story.

This could quickly become troublesome, if not implemented correctly. Tactical combat is much more intensive than simple FF style "statistics duels," and consequently takes a lot more time to resolve. Having to deal with random tactical battles every few steps is a good way to descend into tedium before very long. It would probably be better to assign these random encounters to fixed locations in a given map, most likely (a-la Shining Force) at the room entrances. Of course, in-person negotiations that go sour could easily result in battles (with the added difficulty of probably having civilaians caught in the crossfire; having a shootout in a crowded starbase is not reccommended, but that doesn't mean it won't happen...), which could easily have severe diplomatic consequences ("You idiots and your cowboy diplomacy just caused over 3.5 million RU of collateral damage to the equipment in that Fjorn starbase! How long do you expect them to stay in the alliance now?"). I suppose, if you wanted to get really complex, you could allow the player to attack anyone they choose at any time (Fallout style!), initiating a tactical battle right then and there against whoever happens to be around, but that might be a bit much.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 16, 2007, 06:22:28 pm
Ah, Fallout....

A couple of things to add:

I like the idea of salvaging equipment. Remember, salvaging isn't really a new thing, UQM had it, too. (of course, it's never explained how you magically get the RU from the ships without actually having to tow them back. ;))

Another thing: I don't think the game should have random encounters, IMO. It should be a combination of scripted battles and encounters with enemies on the map screen, UQM-style. (i'm not sure how you'd impliment that for land battles, though) That way you'd have a way to avoid enemies, if you were fast enough.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 16, 2007, 11:08:56 pm
Mmm... MAYBE These'll sort some stuff out...

Psi:

I can't have every single race throwing Psi-Beams and stuff at one another, that would just completely break the system, I'll think about this more though...

Random Encounters:

Maybe if we did it "Semi Random" like UQM did, where you could actually RUN AWAY from the battles and such...

Equipment Sold on Ships:

People, no one seems to be understanding this, yeah, bases are giving away weapons and stuff, but the Melnorme have the BEST ITEMS and are selling them rather cheap. You wouldn't setle for the second and pay double the amount for the first would you?

Syreen Ship:

I don't see an Ur Quan being tammed, there's normally only ONE on each ship, and they're captains of em.

Ur-Quan Size Issue : Mmm, I see about the whole Ur Quan Size thing now, so yepers, I guess then they won't take all the map up then...

Druuge and their ways:

Good points, I can see it might not exactly go down well with the Kohr Ah, but like most Guns for Hire, they'd be "employed" via broadcast, because well, with a pincer attack going on, the Ur Quan could actually get stomping on the Alliance Arse again (being in the center of the map and at attack from all angles is not good).
I think Kohr Ah would prefer Survival than their Ideals until they get a firm footing again, then again...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 17, 2007, 04:49:18 am
Quote
Random Encounters:

Maybe if we did it "Semi Random" like UQM did, where you could actually RUN AWAY from the battles and such...
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Censored on February 17, 2007, 05:20:18 am
I noticed you posted some potential tunes for your game earlier.

Check this one out, it's really spooky and the title fits it
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/view.php?id=1522296&sub=47110

(click the first one, "The Rise of Satan")


Very appropriate for an evil alien!


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 17, 2007, 02:44:16 pm
Nice tune, but It's not a mod file :(. And people would know where it's from instantly (used in many flashes).


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Jumping *Peppers* on February 17, 2007, 07:39:16 pm
Nice tune, but It's not a mod file :(.
Wait, does it have to be? I think you'll find your music choices are a LOT more limited if you only use .mods....

I agree with what you said about it being recognizable though.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Holocat on February 18, 2007, 12:37:14 am
from a technical perspective, they need not be;  If push comes to shove I can just convert everything into a common format on this machine, no problems there.

As to levels, could you, you know, do one?  I suppose I don't really need one to figure out how to do stuff, but it'd be nice, and tell me how big, generally, you want your levels to be.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 18, 2007, 02:39:59 pm
Varies with the size, some battlefields will be large (for full blown battles) and others will be small (for infiltration or conflicts).

Thanks for keeping this alive guys, and thanks for helping out with ze ideas! :D.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: guesst on February 19, 2007, 03:49:22 pm
So is there anyone actually doing any coding on this project or is it still all hypothetical? 4 pages already and I might have missed it, but noboby's stepped up and offered any code.

If not, keep in mind that until anyone does produce something that you're shouting into the void. ANd when someone does appear, whatever suggestions you want will be entirely at their discression.

Coders have the power. Idea people are a dime a dozen.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 19, 2007, 03:57:37 pm
Yeah, I still need a coder :(. But, it's good to have a structure of the game laid out, so we have atleast some foundations...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Draxas on February 19, 2007, 05:49:14 pm
Mmm... MAYBE These'll sort some stuff out...

Psi:

I can't have every single race throwing Psi-Beams and stuff at one another, that would just completely break the system, I'll think about this more though...

I really don't see why not. Magic is pretty ubiquitous in any tactical RPG from a fantasy setting, and this is really no different. Of course, at this point, I take PSI to mean any sort of special abilities or talents any given race might have.

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Equipment Sold on Ships:

People, no one seems to be understanding this, yeah, bases are giving away weapons and stuff, but the Melnorme have the BEST ITEMS and are selling them rather cheap. You wouldn't setle for the second and pay double the amount for the first would you?

Maybe... But as we know, the Melnorme are only interested in specific resources or information for trade, and these things are often hard to come by. After all, if they were easy to find, wouldn't everyone have their technology by now (and by extension, wouldn't they want something different instead)? The point being, most of the other races would want more common resources in trade, while the Melnorme want specific, exotic, and rare items.

Besides, Melnorme technology is DIFFERENT, but not necessarily decidedly BETTER. Who says you can't find more advanced or useful devices and weapons elsewhere? Or, perhaps, that their equipment might not be suitable for the many and varied races of your allies? After all, this is about tactical combat; the more options you have for your tactics (via, at least, equipment with videly varying effects), the better that role is fulfilled.

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Syreen Ship:

I don't see an Ur Quan being tammed, there's normally only ONE on each ship, and they're captains of em.

In ship-to-ship combat, that is absolutely correct. The Ur-Quan is the captain, and the rest of the crew is composed of slave races. Because the captain is always the sole holdout against the Syreen's special, that Ur-Quan would never bail out of the ship. The verdict is out on whether this applies to the Kohr-Ah, however, seeing as they don't keep slaves. There was a thread on this forum a while back speculating about the nature of their crew (with some very nice illustrations by Arne) that is an interesting read.

Ground combat is something different, however. While not captaining a ship (or presumably, leading a force of opponents), the Ur-Quan would probably be just as vulnerable to a Syreen's ability to dominate minds as any other opponent. I suppose this is a moot point if all Ur-Quan are considered bosses, or if they take to wearing excruciators again. But I think it would be fair to keep both flavors of Ur-Quan off limits to joining your forces.

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Druuge and their ways:

Good points, I can see it might not exactly go down well with the Kohr Ah, but like most Guns for Hire, they'd be "employed" via broadcast, because well, with a pincer attack going on, the Ur Quan could actually get stomping on the Alliance Arse again (being in the center of the map and at attack from all angles is not good).
I think Kohr Ah would prefer Survival than their Ideals until they get a firm footing again, then again...

What profit is there, in aiding someone who is just as likely to fire on you as your mutual enemies? I don't see the Druuge's motivation for taking part in this plan either, especially since, assuming they manage to defeat the Alliance, they would be the most immediate target for continued Ur-Quan agression. Aiding the Ur-Quan, with ot without their consent and/or desire, would be a great risk with little forseeable reward, and that doesn't sound like something the Crimson Corporation would endorse at all.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 19, 2007, 05:58:27 pm
Druuge Enigma:

The Captain stomped over the Druuge pride, stole what they considered to be of great importance (you know what, no spoilers >: D), of course, the whole turning on each other thing is also an issue, I'm going to have to think about this a lil more...

Psi:

Like I said, I DO NOT want every race throwing "magic" around the place, there's a reason why Psychics are held so highly, and that's because there isn't many of them.

Syreen Mind Control and the Ur-Quan:

I thought, after the incidents between the Dynarri, the Ur Quan and Kohr Ah would go to lengths to prevent it happening again to their race, now the Syreen aren't even half as powerful as the Dynarri, so I'm still going to say no to Ur-Quan Mind Control.

Melnorme and his warez:

Course, granted, but then, why does the Captain use the Melnorme to purchase technology? Sure, the base makes the parts, but the actual information and such came from the Melnorme, and I do remember a section in SC2, where the commander goes into detail of how the Melnorme's technology is superior to that of which the Base holds...


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Draxas on February 19, 2007, 06:09:25 pm
I'm still convinced the Ur-Quan would sooner destroy the Druuge than accept an alliance with them, and that the Druuge would never be stupid enough to try to make an alliance with a race so universally hostile. While their pride is important, their survival and profits are much more so.

As I said, I'm using the term PSI as a catch-all for any abilities not universally shared by all races. They don't necessarily have to be psionics. Hell, you could even go so far as to say the Umgah's superior medical skill (battlefield medic, anoyone?) would fall under this category, and that has nothing to do with psychic powers. Bottom line is, my feeling is that friends and foes alike need specific traits to differentiate them, otherwise they're just generic allies or enemies with different sprites.

The Melnorme possess superior technology with respect to the flagship and planet landers than the starbase, which is unsurprising since they're Precursor technologies that Starcontrol personnel from Earth would have little to no knowledge of. With respect to everything else... Well, would you want all your ships armed with the apparent pinnacle of Melnorme weapons technology, the rainbow charge blaster and paralysis shot? I know I wouldn't.


Title: Re: Needed! Staff for Project!
Post by: Neonlare on February 19, 2007, 06:16:35 pm
But that's a ship weapon, and also, the Melnorme don't just trade in their goods, like the Shiva Furnace?

Skills will be available to the other races, just, not much Psi-types. Medical, yeah, but it'll use items and such...